 In many ways, regeneration is very simple to start to re-imagine a world built on life-affirming principles. I'm not saying it's not going to be difficult. It will bring about its challenges, but in many ways, once people get it, then something starts to shift within them. Laura Storm is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas, brought to you by 1.5 Media, Innovators Magazine, and sponsored by the Aloha's Regenerative Foundation. Laura is an international keynote speaker, author, advisor, and expert on sustainability and regenerative leadership, and has spent her entire career advising global leaders on sustainability and building impact and purpose-driven organizations and movements. I'll have focused on global transformation to sustainability, and they include the Copenhagen Climate Council, the World Business Summit on Climate Change, Project Greenlight, and Sustainia. In 2018, she founded Regenerators, a collective focused on nature's inspired regenerative design, organizations, leadership, and living. She is the co-author of a much-praised book, Regenerative Leadership. I've got it right here. It's a super read. It's a fabulous book. I've been through it a couple times. We're going to tickle on it a little bit today. Regenerative leadership and for her work, she has been awarded the World Changer by Green Biz, selected by the World Economic Forum as a young global leader, and named one of the world's leading women in sustainability and regeneration by sustainable brands. She serves on multiple boards and on the World Economic Forum's expert network as an expert in sustainable development and climate change. Her academic background is a master's in political communication and leadership from Copenhagen Business School. Laura lives in Denmark with her family, partner, old Rick, daughter, Roxy, and son, Carlo. I am so glad we just recently saw each other. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad that you made it. Thank you so much, Mark. It was a pleasure both meeting you a couple of weeks ago and I've been looking forward to this sharing. Me too. I'm excited because I know you're busy and how you work your lifestyle and everything into the seasons to make sure there's a nice balance and working with nature. I'm glad we found a time where we can both sink and talk. We were at this, and I say wonderful, and I have to caveat it, this wonderful event for Youth Island during peace day and we were at a dinner afterwards and kind of a celebration of all the volunteers and the people working on the event that happened on the island. It's really hard sometimes at events, at conferences, to have a discussion or to find a gel because people are shouting over each other and there's a lot of loud voices and things. Everybody's trying, has good intentions, I believe, but it's chaotic and so I'm glad to have you to myself but also share you and your views and your ideas with those on the podcast in a little bit quieter setting. I guess the question really is, you had in 2015, which was a very pivotal year for the world an accident and created a brain injury for you that noise and TV and electronics and all the normal things of, or I don't know, not normal, but the way we work and the noises around us kind of almost puts you in a whole different light and you have stories out there on TEDx and you have stories out there on podcasts where you talk about that journey and what happened and kind of how this was a later in life transition into more regenerative, more self-reflection and things like that. How do you manage now that you've gone through this process when you're in situations like those very loud conferences and events and dinners where people are vying for your time, they think you're the superstar and you are a superstar around sustainability in the books? How do you deal with that now to move forward and find the right reflection and give those people their help that they need to possibly see the world in a different light than this fast-paced rap race, money-making type of a world? What do you do? How do you deal with that? So, yes, I had a myotromatic brain injury is what it's characterized as in 2015, which as you shared was a pivotal year for global events, right? We had the SDGs that were launched during the UN General Assembly in September and December. We had the COP21 in Paris and I had worked towards both of these events. Maybe we can get back to that if that's in any way relevant. Because I since I was a kid knew kind of my purpose and passion in life that I wanted to help our societies transition to sustainability. I also had this negative tendency that many activists had that I didn't really value how my own inner ecosystem was what state that was in as long as I could work as much as possible. So, I had worked myself kind of to the ground in many ways without realizing when that accident happened. And it was very much a teaching in what happens to any living system. If you don't have that inbuilt resilience, you don't have the carrying capacity to withstand all kinds of systemic shocks. And in my little microcosmos that was the accident. But it was a blessing in disguise and I'm incredibly grateful for that event because it brought me home and it reconnected myself to my inner essence and it gave me the time and the space to sink deeper into my inner nature and reconnect with my outer nature or our natural habitat. And it made me rekindle that love and connection that I had had as a kid. And I had lived in the Ecuadorian part of the Amazon for quite a while and learned from from shamans there. Because I thought that my kind of path in life was to work as an environmentalist on the ground. And we can go back to why that why that didn't kind of work out as as planned. But it was a wonderful time where I got to learn from the key kind of wisdom keepers on this planet, right indigenous leaders. And that time and space that the accident brought also brought space and and and the time to reconnect with some of those teachings they kept they were very alive to me in that in that time of my life. And in many ways, because I could only kind of be active for 10 minutes at a time for a very, very long time. My life became sort of like one big meditation in many ways. And I had never tried psychedelics before my accident. And I still haven't actually, although I know many people highly benefit from them. But it felt like what those people would describe a psychedelic trip felt like, that it was like I would see visions and I would have this sensation that we are, we are all one, we are all connected, we are part of a greater interconnected web of life. And I'm one component of it. It was a, it was a remarkable time of my life. Of course, it was also deeply traumatic in many ways. And it was, it was stuck. But it was in that darkness that I that I found myself. And and I just wanted that kind of preface to actually answer your question. So now I live my life completely differently to to what I did those many years ago now. I take out a lot of time to to my inner practice to spend time in nature. I've kind of made little rules to myself because I know I have this inner passion inner fire that if I don't kind of have that that kind of balance or check in with myself, I know I can kind of it will get the better of me. So I have little rules in place. For example, I should stay within the kind of frame of working 25 hours a week. And I have a very cyclical approach to my work life, which means I am very kind of in June with my inner cycle. So I know when to plot out very extroverted elements and where I need to kind of have more space and time for inner reflection. And of course, that that doesn't always work out. Sometimes I need to be on a keynote stage or give a keynote on on on day one of my cycle. And I and I and I go and do that I don't cancel. But it's that kind of constant awareness that is very present in my life that I that I deeply cherish. And also because it's it's it's just it's a it's a necessity for me. Because I know I know now the signs when I'm starting to kind of go out of essence or out of balance. We all start to act slightly differently. And our reactive patterns become different when we are not aligned and grounded and coming from a space of inner peace. And you can sense that in yourself. And and that becomes very obvious once you start to to develop that deep relationship to yourself. So how I navigate those kind of events that you and I met at is I would most often say no. And that's not from a place of arrogance, but it's a place of I I'm highly introverted. And I'm very sensitive. And I don't enjoy loud dinners like that. I thrive gathering people in circles out in a forest. And it's not that I never do dinner parties. But but most often, I would just say no, when I'm out giving keynotes at conferences, there's always a speaker dinner. And I always as kindly as I possibly can't say no, because I just don't enjoy them, they kind of suck my energy out. And I would rather reconnect with with the people that that there's resonance with after that after the event, just like you and I are doing right now. I really appreciate it. And that's really what I was getting at and how you deal with that. I'm I'm actually very similar. So there's a lot of most all events. There's a cocktail hour, there's an after party, a before party. And it's almost seems like it's all about the parties and less about about the speaking and the content that happens sometimes. And matter of fact, some of some events they'll have before the event starts are kind of like an opening celebration. And then nobody makes it to the actual event, because they're all sleeping because they they didn't go to bed, you know, things like that. So I usually excuse myself, because I'm not a drinker, I'm not a smoker, I don't enjoy that. I really like depth and so I can totally relate. I didn't give your background, but other than your introduction, not that I read it. But you started at a very young age kind of this nature, this almost environmentalistic view of of the world. And he says, I want to do something that a young age, you were able to go to Ecuador, as you mentioned, and and do some pretty fabulous things. But the whole sustainia thing was was a really big, big thing as well that you did for a long time. And hopefully a lot of the people listening to the podcast will know that and those who who who don't can go out and look that up all the work you did. But you were really so deep and entrenched in climate and activism and talking about these important meetings like COP 21 in Paris and planning to go. And then this this moment happened that you know you tell us about that almost shattered that world. And those are the stories. I mean, most people say, well, how did you get into climate activism or environmentalism? Or how did you get into this? And they're looking for some kind of a lightning moment where where your life changes. In some respects, you didn't need that or have that necessarily before that journey. But now you had one that almost did I hate to use the word reset because of the world economic form, but you had a moment where you were forced through this this trauma. We can call it reconnect. Yeah, reconnect. That's the best one. Yeah. I like Leonardo da Vinci was talking about regeneration and restoring and reconnecting. One of the first scientists artists and Paulie Math, a Renaissance man really was talking about it back then. And today, it's become a thing of trendy. And everybody's using the word regeneration. I've been asked for the last four or five years now. They'll say, Mark, can you speak to us about regeneration? And they are thinking I'm going to talk about regenerative agriculture. Yeah, that's the that's the big thing. And now at last in May this year, actually at Davos at the World Economic Forum, businessmen are using the word regeneration regenerative like crazy, and they have no clue what it is. It's become trendy, but it's not anything new. It's not anything trendy. It's been around for a long time. But in this this forced moment that you had, you almost had to figure out how do I you know, and I don't know if you want to tell it. But with your counselor or psychologist or whoever you are meeting at trying to say, hey, I want to go to the climate conference COP 21, can I go and I say, well, that's not very sustainable that that you kind of were almost forced into how do I regenerate and get back into a lifestyle that's healthy for myself and a better way of living for the future. And so I just want to know if you could tell us maybe even a little bit more of the depth on on that. And then we're going to leave that trauma behind and how you're shaping and helping helping those regenerators in the future. Sure, I'll be happy to do that. So like a typical type a very driven person that had been used to project manage all kinds of things when that brain trauma happened that that was my kind of default when when I faced the challenge I would kind of project manage my way out of it. And that's also what I tried to do with my brain injury. And I'm and I'm laughing or smiling because it's like you can't do that. You can't do that. You need to just surrender. You need to relax. You need to regenerate. You cannot go on the big Google machine like I did and kind of search your way into healing. But I was so frustrated because doctors didn't have the answers. They had no idea why the impact was was so severe and why it was kind of why I had all these symptoms. Why my body was kind of functioning as poorly as it did. And in my search for answers, I just allowed my old persona of the kind of fixture mentality to to have the driver seat. And I think it was a couple of months in maybe three or four. And my partner was like, I think you I think you maybe need to see some kind of therapist like a psychiatrist to help you deal with this trauma because I keep he could see that the woman that I was before and that very driven kind of let's go do things work more or less all the time. He was really suffering going through this pivotal year for for the movement that I was passionate about. Just a little kind of other kind of context was that I was deeply involved in the process leading up to the COP 15, which everyone thought would bring about a climate treaty, but it did not. It was a massive breakdown. And so for me, there was a lot of kind of it was really emotional for me that now we had another COP 15 moment, COP 21. And I have been very involved in that process in many different ways. So it was that kind of kind of desperation. I could not not be there. And I went to that psychiatrist and I talked her through my mission and why it was really important that we fix me quickly because I need to get out there and the world needs me and all those kind of things. And she just looked at me with a with a compassionate, not arrogant, but with a compassionate, filled with love smile and was just like, Laura, have you thought about the importance of of inner sustainability? And I could punch her in the face right there. That was a most annoying thing you could say. But of course, her statement made an impact. And it kind of sat with me. And I think it was after that that I that I started my process of surrendering. And I booked a silent retreat instead of going to Paris. And I kind of finally finally let go of that idea that I could go to Paris, because obviously I could not, I couldn't even kind of go to a supermarket. So of course, I couldn't be on a stage in Paris. And and it was one of those interesting things, that whole process of surrendering and of letting go, which is actually deeply important for regenerators. And for our society as a collective, because there's a lot of things that we need to surrender right now. There's a lot of things that we need to let go of, but we haven't been taught how to do that. We've been taught how to kind of cling on how to control and how to steer through any unpleasant emotions, right? So it was a massive embodied learning and experience for me of what happens when we feel every emotion, regardless of how unpleasant and feel it feels like just let everything be there, accept everything. And because healing was not happening to me quickly, I needed to just be with all those deeply uncomfortable feelings and emotions and sadness and grief and that grief of losing the old Laura and having no idea who the new Laura was or what she was capable or able rather to do when once she had kind of gone through the recovery cave. And whether there was an end to this kind of dark tunnel, I had no idea whether there would be light at the end. So that was a really, really, it was a heavy, heavy period of my life, but also a deeply healing period of my life. Because in that darkness, there was a lot of unhealed traumas. And I have had a great upbringing in many ways, but we all have traumas that we are not really willing to sit with and be part of us. And that part of integrating our shadows is something we haven't been taught. But I had to kind of in a way teach myself. And of course, I got help from a few skilled kind of practitioners and psychiatrists. And I started to see it as a couple of months into that kind of darkness, I started to see it as a opportunity for me to learn things that I really needed to learn. And it also started to be clear to me that this was not, it may sound terrible what I'm about to say, but it started to feel like an upleveling instead of a degradation of me or instead of a degeneration of me. It felt like it felt like I had to be kept still, so that there were things that could be integrated and matured within me as a human being. And that it was important that I didn't heal quickly. Because if I had healed quickly, I would have jumped at it quickly and be out in the world. But my body, my psyche, my whole being needed that deep integration time. So that took a couple of years. And then I slowly started to talk about things from a new kind of a new essence in many ways. And I remember, I did just a little tiny blog post on Hobbington that was titled, I think it's titled, Why Spirituality is Key to Solve Climate Change. And I remember that I sent it to a few of my mentors, I'm not going to mention them by name, because it will feel like I'm judging them and I'm not. They are great people. Two males that are known figures in the sustainability movement. And I sent it to them and they were just like, Laura, don't do this. Don't do this. It will really change your name and it will damage all of what you've built. And it was funny how them saying that didn't instill fear in me, but it was just like, well, if that's how they feel, then it's important. I need to bring this message out into the world. And if you read it, I don't know if it's still there, but it's not that it's super profound or anything. It was just describing to people the process of leading up to COP 15 versus the process leading up to COP 21, where Christiana Figueres were actually consciously integrating faith communities and spiritual leaders. And I was sharing this story where we were at this monastery a couple of months before my accident. As part of a process of building strong relationships among key negotiators, and we were at this monastery with various faith leaders facilitating a process of that was important leading up to the COP 21 meeting. And I remember how the old aura was deeply impatient and impatient by the whole kind of atmosphere and speaking from the heart and sitting in circle. And I was just like, guys, we only together for 24 hours. And we have all of these things that we have to accomplish. And my kind of mechanistic machine mindset would just go into, can we please have an agenda? And who's doing what when? And I was in a compassionate way being guided to just be there in stillness and silence. And I was just mentioning that as a profound moment for me that I connected with in my recovery phase. Because it was almost as if it was a little seed that I could cling on to in my recovery phase that were planted two months before my injury, so that I could kind of connect back to those fascinating spiritual human beings that I had met at that monastery, that I could connect with them almost energetically in my recovery process and remember the essence that they brought with them that had a completely different flavor than the whole sustainability movement, which is very focused on, we need to scale technologies, we need the same political frameworks and we need financial mechanisms and that very kind of left brain hemisphere way of running processes. So yeah, that was a very, very long answer and I've kind of lost track of whether I've answered the question. You definitely answered it and you've actually touched upon many other things which we want to go into in the rest of our discussion. So if it's not clear to the listener so far, before this time you were really connected to all the who's who of sustainability movements around this, Christiana Fageris who you mentioned was the Queen of the COP COP 21, the Conference of the Parties for the United Nations. You were involved in COP 15, Copenhagen, which was a huge event and we really thought a monumental moment, but then it fell flat as what you said as well. In your book Regenerative Leadership, not only in the cover but testimony, Christiana Fageris writes this book invites leaders to lead the world into the 21st century. She is a wonderful person and she writes something else on the inside of the book. I want to read this as well. The world is changing fast and organizations are not keeping up with the pace of transformation. This book invites leaders to catalyze the necessary regeneration to not just catch up but to lead the world into the 21st century. I mean unbelievable and there's I mean my other good friend who I was just recently in Croatia and you know this because we talked about it but there's you know Green to Gold, Andrew Winston, Net Positive, Paul Pullman and Daniel Etsy as well who also write testimonies in your book. We were just at an event together in Croatia Andrew Winston and he was telling me how wonderful you are what a superstar you are and it's so true because you're honest and telling us as climate leaders, environmentalists, as activists that we're on thin ice, we're not being very regenerative, we're not being very sustainable with ourselves. I mean just let alone the United Nations conferences every single year, not just the climate conference, the pre-cop, the cops, there are, I kid you not, 100 or more events every single year planning negotiations, plan areas online, offline, physical events leading up to the cop, leading up to certain steps before we even meet at a climate conference at the cop. There's so many things to prepare what were you going to negotiate when we're at a cop, things like that and you have to imagine we're only talking about the United Nations but only means that for two weeks of a climate conference, two full weeks, 14 days with no breaks, there are in the blue zone alone over 200 pavilions, boosts, it's like an expo that are speaking from for eight to 12 hours every single day non-stop and that's just the pavilions, then there's general assemblies, plan areas, there's side meeting rooms, there's the offices, every day for two weeks it's just insanity, that let alone you have to be an Olympic athlete just to get through you know and negotiating and discussing the climate, the environment and things like that. It's a heavy burden to carry, it's a carry, it's a lot of weight and I'm so thankful that you and many others have started to really emerge and address how do we change the script, how do we do it differently so that we can sustain ourselves well into the future, how can we regenerate ourselves with the cycles of life and the seasons of our world with nature and harmony so that we can endure this. This is a long journey, we want to be around for decades and centuries and hopefully millennia to come as homo sapiens on this planet and there's a lot of work to do but it's a long race, it's not a short race and so I think there's so many tools that you provide in this book that I just want to kind of start to tickle into was the journey of what happened to you part of the development of the book and how did the book emerge and tell us a little bit more about that because I believe there's also a pivotal time frame as well where some other things were occurring at the same time you were bringing out this book. Yeah so before we go there I just want to briefly stop at what you were touching upon this presence of a lot of stress trauma friction in the activist communities and I'm often approached by global activist movements where the relationships internally has become so fragile and where trauma has taken over that there's a lot of inner collapse within the living systems of those organizations because many activist people are sensitive, they have sense the kind of severity of these challenges since since they were kids they have been used to being fighters being the odd ones out being the lonely wolves and yes then they start to gather in groups but they still have this very kind of fierce competitive alpha syndrome or the messiahs complex is another thing that I see quite a lot in the activist community and I have so much love for this community because these are raw passionate souls they deeply want to make a difference and many would give their life to the movement that they believe in but they have so many blind spots in terms of not seeing how they react how they act how they interact is causing a lot of degenerative ripples and they can't see that so I'm very passionate on helping them see what they can't see so they can start to create these thriving and regenerative microorganisms and living systems so that the activist movement and communities can start to transform because we deeply need them but we haven't been taught as a collective to to hold space for the pain that you sense when you are an activist when a pain you sense early on and that also brought me on my path when I saw a documentress as a seven eight year old and I was just like I couldn't believe how oil companies were destroying the rainforest and that brought me on the kind of my trajectory but if you've never been taught how to surrender how to anchor ground yourself how to speak from your essence how to hold space and create safe spaces you can create so much destruction so I just wanted to to to just to say that and we can maybe get back I totally agree and I've said I say it quite often on the podcast and in in my talks our human health your health my health is a microcosmos of the world around us yeah so if the world around us our friends our environment the work we do the type of life we live the the home that we've created to be in is suffering if it's not healthy if it's bad it reflects on our own health and it's just like we have microorganism and good gut health and things like that if the world around us and our close proximity is suffering then our own health suffers and so we yeah and the other way around if you are suffering and if you have unhealed trauma you are constantly projecting all sorts of crap out on your immediate kind of connections and and that's what I it's a two way street I totally agree with you yeah and I've seen I've witnessed a lot of crazy things also among sea level executives and political leaders and heads of states and what we witnessed at the Bella Center was literally heads of state hiding from each other like hiding behind chairs it was it was crazy and what we also saw was was just kind of masculine in this case egos in overdrive so obsessive with with getting the accreditation and I'm talking not about political leaders but about the diplomacy behind and and civil servants that were just kind of messing things up in the background coming from from from a lot of unhealed trauma and and as I said an ego and overdrive so it's so incredibly important otherwise we will continue fixing things at the surface unless we start to go and there go deep within and and hold space for that to emerge with within ourselves but also learn how to create safe spaces in our environments in our companies so back to your question because it was actually quite interesting because the the same people that were facilitating that meeting two months before my injury at the monastery in Switzerland where I was just like come on guys um let's speed this process up um as I said they were sort of like they were people or rather actually sort of like an energetic frequency that I held on to during my recovery phase um and the first meeting that that I was able to attend and that I could sense was really important for me to attend without knowing why was a gathering of the same people and and and more people it was it was a bigger gathering and it was in London and it was again a gathering of of spiritual leaders faith leaders from some from seven different religions and then organizations that work in the space of how can we transform pilgrim traveling um into becoming more sustainable was the word so we have 330 million pilgrim travelers traveling to these holy cities from from different religions but but they are leaving behind other destruction how can we do this better um and um I was invited because um they they wanted me to they want the meeting to emerge in sort of like um a project or task force and um and they wanted to involve me in that and another and another person that they were really wanted to involve in in this was Giles Hutchins so he was at the meeting as well um and I never really got to talk to him but I had a talk about uh doing this gathering um about the importance of inosustainable inosustainability and sort of sort of sort of my my still very raw experience of what I had just been through and and that this was my first meeting um out in the real world again and um and he just kind of um I really enjoyed your talk here is my card I think we should connect and I just put his card in my bag and and didn't think much more about it but then a couple months after his card fell out of my back um and I took it up and I looked at it and it said something like uh leadership inspired by nature and I started to google him and it was just like yes yes exactly that that is what has been kind of simmering in the back of my mind that is what I've been studying here in my cave how can we learn from nature how can we learn from living systems and how we redesign organizations how we transform how we lead how we hold space so Giles had at the time written he had just kind of I think published his third book uh Future Fit and before that um leadership inspired by nature and then um the illusion of separation so I ordered his books books and um and it felt like okay this this was why I had to be in London so I wrote to him I invited him on a podcast that I was starting this is back in 2017 um and and he was the first guest that I had on my podcast and we just immediately connected and I think we both felt that there was something here for us there was a lot of kind of immediate love not in any way in a romantic way but just like you we are like kindred spirits we are we are soul siblings and there is there is work for us to do together and and we hold some of the the pieces that the other one needs in a way or is looking for um and that started a long process of him and I co-creating and playing together and holding space for executives together and running seminars and retreats and out of that process emerged um the book and the frameworks that are that are in the regenerative leadership book so um so that's that's a nice little story of synchronicity it is it's absolutely beautiful and in 2017 you had many things here you you speak uh are all around the world and quite a bit and you're connected to to these but shortly after the book or around the same time as launch of the book you started the regenerate raiders um were founded as basically to train regenerators and lead them on this 12 month journey but that was 2018 which is really interesting because it's also the year that uh John Elkington recalled the triple bottom line yeah and if you ask around I mean all over and when I talk or if I see annual reports come out just last year they're still talking about the triple bottom line and I think it's okay because if they do it in the right way it can still be a very good thing yeah but most of them don't know that he recalled it most of them don't even know that he's the one you know what it's almost been 30 years now since he came out with it um that he's the one who came out with it they're just kind of using it as this this this trendy thing and you are working with these people on other training courses on other events and I think you've even had some some stuff to do with the inner development goals and just taking the much needed help that are that our community environmentalists activists those who are transitioning to better organization and models that have the tools to to not only have a more successful model but to survive all the trauma that can be experienced you know during during during this work it's um it can be very rewarding in many many aspects because it's such an existential or such an important thing you're like I don't have time to sleep I don't have time to go on vacation I've got to just keep working like a robot you know and and people lose themselves and they become sick and I see so much of that happen and so it's a it's a sheer blessing that that you're you're doing this vital work um and this is nothing negative towards you or Giles or or John or anything we need a hundred thousand of you to do this work we're almost eight billion people on this planet and a big majority of them are suffering and starting to go through these things and they need the tools they need the books they need the help to be able to understand that because they haven't the light hasn't gone on they haven't gone through that metamorphosis that trans transformation yet and so I thank you for doing that but I want want you to kind of tell us about um the work and and and what you do to to do why is it 12 months and how is it really take that long and how do you get people like Google and big organizations to come on and say wow and what what are you seeing based upon that yeah so I started regenerators um it's almost five years ago now and I wanted to this time around I did not want to kind of I'm the CEO and then I started to hire people I wanted to create a collective and it's it's still emerging um and I wanted to to offer a platform where people that started to realize something off off here um and instead of going on the same journey that I had been on on my own and kind of kind of gathering the pieces together slowly um I wanted to create a community where people could get access to inspirational teachers and and and get insight to this to this field in a way where where we hold each other's hands um so all of the year um I that has kind of taken different shapes and forms and I've had a lot of executives out in nature um and witness their transformation and see the kind of the the difference of the of the of their eyes after spending a few days out in nature and then in 2020 Jenny Anderson that I think she's been on this podcast as well her and I worked together for for all of that kind of pandemic year on on together holding space for a community that wanted to embark on on the regenerators journey and um and and all of this year and and also next year I've helped space for a year-long journey because I craved a community that helped space for each other for a long time and I've invited in guest um guest facilitators and speakers like John Ailkinson and Jazz Hutchins, Michelle Holliday, Lynn Gorison, um John Fullerton as well and John Fullerton also holds space for for his um his own community and and this year we've both held space for um for a little over 300 people um each but in a way where we to some extent do it together or see the communities as part of the same mycelium so it's not a competition we are very much see John as a sole brother as well and we share notes and we collaborate and we we are friends and we are um I'm giving giving sessions or facilitating sessions at each other's programs and and and learning journeys and and for me this is so incredibly meaningful this is this is this has been the part of the of a piece of of of work that I have enjoyed the most my entire life it's so meaningful to witness the transformation of people but also to to witness these deep relationships being built new projects being created um and the self-organizing wisdom and the collective intelligence that emerges from such a group because this is not here I am and we have a hierarchical model and I am the teacher it's not like that in any way I'm a spaceholder but they have become co-creative um collective spaceholders as well and a lot of kind of self-organized events and local chapters as well as sector chapters has emerged so I think now we have 10 groups um like subgroups regenerative education regenerative agriculture regenerative economics and etc that are discussing what each of these um amazing human beings are fascinated about and there are many kind of local gatherings um and and that brings me so much joy and I completely agree and John and I have also had this conversation that it's really great that that we have 300 people each involved in these communities but we need we need millions um but I have learned to accept that um sometimes speed is not the most important things or scaling is not the most important things um I have I have had to accept and surrender to the fact that I can only I can only do what I'm what I'm here to do and I I find so much joy in the fact that this new tapestry of life that we are weaving together um so all of the the people that I've had on as as guest facilitators on my course Daniel Christian Waal uh Giles Hutchins Michelle Holiday John Fullerton Jill Elkington Leila June the fascinating indigenous wisdom keeper from from Turtle Island all of us are doing work independently and sometimes we're weaving together and we each hold kind of our unique threat to the greater tapestry of life that we are co-weaving in these epochal years that we are navigating and living through right now and and and what we can do is offer our potent um wisdom without kind of degrading it but kind of what is our potent offering to the world and that's all we can do and that is okay and I have no idea what kind of ripple effects and and and I have a lot of trust and exponentials in the sense that okay if 300 people are sharing this with just two friends then it's it's starting to to have a a real impact um and and many of these human beings that are part of this journey they they have quite broad circles of of influence and are heading big organizations or designing um cities or school teachers and professors etc and they um they can create really powerful ripples with some of these new insights so that brings me um a lot of genuine joy and I think it's because it's it feels like uh it's there's two things in it one is that I'm able to raw and authentically in my true kind of essence in integrity with what I believe is is is true I'm able to be in alignment with that and that is always something that brings a human being great joy and something we should all strive strive for um but it's also that the fact that it's that it's not about me it's not the laura storm course it's about holding holding space for emergence which I find really exciting what does these human beings what is emerging when we go together right now for example what we are together holding space for is the desire for integrating what play in our work the desire for integrating more joy and vibrancy and we are together finding out how does that look like and feel like how can we test out new ways of beings etc etc so yeah I'm going to stop myself there but that's something that I that I that I truly truly enjoy uh you don't ever need to stop yourself because you're you're you're singing to my heart and it's it's so true I can tell you um you're you're already on the exponential curve you're on that path that you're you're reaching that critical mass of ripple effect that you so describe because and and I'm sure you know about it we need to talk about maybe or or what your influence has been from Lin Margolis and symbiosis but all of the people you you talked about in those that web that web of life but also that that network that you are collaborating with Lin Margolis wrote a book a long time ago it's called symbiosis symbiosis as a source of evolutionary innovation there's a couple models for nature and the way the world's always worked and um symbiosis is regeneration it's that the the whole thing and and it's the most advanced ecological phenomenon that if we apply it into our lives into what you're doing and you are you write about it you're practicing that in there it is uh faster faster than cultural evolution it's faster than a super exponential so right now we might be might be on that gap or chasm or the pullback of the bow before the launch but but I believe you're firmly on that curve already and you've already planted the seeds and set the stones for that those people who um really need that that that push that extra help that critical mass to realize they're not alone in this journey and there's so much to collaborate with um on this and and really um but also something that that's sorry sorry because something that I'm also deeply called to do and that I love to do together with this community um and other people that I work with is um one thing is the fascinating work of some of the um the amazing living systems thinkers if we can call them that then Lynn being one of them um Furch of Capra being another another another others again and we can mention many um that that I think both you and I are deeply inspired by and have have been pioneers what I'm very kind of called to is to the language that they use um um take some getting used to and and and what is also needed is translators and I don't meet people that are coming in and watering down the the essence of their work but we we need translators that can make living the living systems vocabulary accessible and again I really don't mean watering it down but but in many ways regeneration is is very simple it's it's it's in many ways very simple to start to re-imagine a a world built on life affirming principles I'm not saying it's it's gonna be it's not gonna be difficult it it it will bring about its challenges but it in many ways once people get it then something starts to shifts within them and there's a lot of the rhetoric that is being used by some of their kind of earlier thinkers that is too hard to comprehend with when you are in the busy CEO executive mindset so I've also made it part of kind of my contribution and and and we are many I'm not alone that are how how can we how can we translate this in a way so it doesn't create an us versus them us who gets it and us who are too stupid to get what with these fascinating people are talking about so how can we make the living systems vocabulary accessible so it can be so it can be owned in a way by many and and and for the third time I want to stress that I am not talking about watering anything down or not being true to the essence of regeneration but regeneration is in many ways the earliest principle of life we have on this planet it is it is that is part of indigenous wisdom thinking that is part of how we how early civilizations were were based so how can we how can we all sit with the process of first grieving and accepting that in a way many of us feel like orphans we we don't have these wisdom keepers or these elders that have passed on wisdom okay once we have gotten through that acceptance and through that grieving stage how can we start to hold space for what life affirming principles looks like and feel like in your in in in your sector or in in your circle of influence how how would it look like and feel like and what needs to be done because I I know that there are many thinkers that are advocating the importance of holding space for the for the questions together and I I agree with that but we also need to go through a process when where we are starting to actually do something out in the real world instead of living systems thinkers just gathering and talk fancy words to each other and we need to also their roll up our sleeves and start to actually physically touch soil and and and start to enter as immatinal cells in big corporations and start to test out what how what does it feel and look like if we were to deliver these these services or these products in a life affirming way what does it look like what does it feel like what does it feel like to be a little cell in the bigger organism in this corporation how can we create life affirming principles through our organizational cultures how do we hold space to that for that together that is where it for me becomes incredibly exciting and potent and that is the work that we that we need to embark on right now we need to move beyond getting excited about fancy words and this whole idea about living systems thinking and then we start to actually we've got to do the work absolutely yeah we know it totally makes sense we've got to do the work and and what what I've learned and I I think I'd like to see what you you've experienced but once we do the work and we actually apply it to our lifestyles and integral part about how we live and work and act and and how our organizations are structured and just our day to day seasons that we go through that that is there a lot of those become almost autonomous it's like a new habit that forms it's almost an autonomous thing that that a lot with systems and the big words we use in systems thinking people are overwhelmed because it's a system it's got a thousand different facets to make that system work and if just one or two start to fail then the whole system you know breaks down or doesn't function how it should and so um how how do we build those into a habit into a new lifestyle that almost they become autonomous that you don't even think about how how they function or they work you use in in the book in your academy and regenerative academy and and what you do with with the journey for the regenerators um five life life affirming logics um you kind of talk about in the in the academy there's um six different modules that you use and talk about can you maybe tickle a little bit about what people can expect is this uh is you know when I talk to companies and organizations about sustainability or how to implement ESG and all these other acronyms you hear out there they're like oh is that going to be expensive or how can we have I only have 30 minutes how can we do it you're talking now to a 12 month journey um how do you present that how does that look and and what what are you seeing from those organizations you've had google at at some of your events how does that work and what are the results they're seeing how do you get them to go on that journey from that initial step where they're hesitant you know yeah um because that's something that I'm that I'm very passionate about because I I get to speak to many executive forums um investors pension funds etc and um I'm I'm consciously aware of um when you present for them a new idea that their heart feels connected to put the brain cells them it's too difficult but it also triggers a lot of fear it triggers a lot of fear because when you have been used to walk the corporate ladder and you have achieved a certain position title status by being really good at maintaining the machine and keeping it efficient it takes a lot of courage to say this model you've walked up the corporate ladder and you're up here and you're starting to realize damn it I've contributed to a lot of toxicity a lot of degradation and degeneration admitting that to yourself takes so much courage and so much vulnerability and again going back to how we started this sharing we haven't been taught how to hold space for that so the normal human pattern for most is to ignore what the heart is kind of craving for because I sense an increasing collective longing for for these regenerative messages and principles and life affirming ways of doing business but when you're up there and you are then okay for those executives that do dare to take the steps I celebrate them because they are walking down the steps and through that process there's a lot of shame involved shame is the most kind of destroying energy from a frequency point of view that we as human beings can experience but they go through that and then they walk in to kind of completely unknown territories where they are the newbies the the green ones they have no idea how to do that and they're so programmed to being the ones that shut the doors and deliver a strategy plan and present things to shareholders and suddenly they have to convince shareholders that it's time to do something radically different they have to express to their employees that they believe time needs to change and that we need to collectively hold space for what this entity wants to be in the 21st century that takes so much courage so part of what I want to offer is is is a safe haven where they can explore some of these questions together but also easy access so yes I have the 12-year journey but I've also made all of the pre-recorded modules those kind of sick modules that you were talking about I've made them freely available so that that if you if you can't kind of if you don't have the capacity to go through a 12-month journey you can get access to those modules immediately and you can digest them in their own time and space and some companies have done that and then then they have kind of I've helped hold space for the mini journey for them where they go through these same modules and they apply it into their reality and into to their unique place and and sense into their unique potential so back to the modules so what we cover is first module is why do we need regeneration why do we need regenerative leadership and business and to what extent is it not the same or just a little continuation from sustainability and and why sustainability served us to some point but now we what we need right now is is a process of of of deep regeneration and we need to learn how to be stewards of life itself and we need to be custodians of life and we need to understand life-affirming principles and and and and in that it will dawn on people rights it's not just a fancy new word for sustainability the second module is is is called the story of separation and is all about understanding what journey have we as a species been on why have we caused so so much harm which has been a question that I've asked myself since I was a kid why have we deliberately designed systems and structures in a way where we are now in the sixth mass extinction have runaway climate change and all those numbers I could go on but we we don't have to do that because we we are aware but it just doesn't make sense to me but it actually have brought me some some relief in a way to understand major historic events and what have we been through as a collective and when did we start to turn our back against nature and what would when when we did we start to reject the inner dimension within ourselves and and and what happened during the scientific revolution that brought great strides and and a lot of great things but also it was to some extent as lin mc taggart has said it also stripped out the soul of of of the universe in in many ways so the story of separation piece is really important for regenerators to understand and understand where start at least to explore how are they continuing to repeat the story of separation through their leadership through how they live their life by creating more separation between them and other human beings or them in nature or not not equally allowing both the analytical left brain hemisphere and the creative and right brain hemisphere which is the only part of our brain that is able to think an interconnected whole system so we need to nurture that part but the but the tragedy is that our educational system has has only fine tuned or nourished the left brain hemisphere at least speaking kind of generally and and and also the whole whole masculine versus feminine that has created a lot of inner tension and friction with within both all genders how can we learn to play more with the feminine essence how can we how can we all encompass some of these feminine qualities that we as a society has been taught a week are not as good as the masculine and and and and it takes it it's it's really an empowering kind of process to go through how you how we have all at certain points in our of our life been soft have suffered due to due to that story of separation I also go back and see myself as a 25 year old when I was starting to be part of kind of global political negotiations and how I kind of slowly but very surely morphed into the a very masculine version of myself because that was kind of my strategy to as a young woman be taken seriously in those forums so this process that I have been on has also been a part of reclaiming my right brain hemisphere that creative playful part of me and reclaiming the feminine etc and that's an important journey for regenerators to to dive into and explore in themselves so that's an important part of the journey the third component is learning from nature and and starting to explore how can we learn from the microcosmos and how can we how can we learn from from life's basic principles Giles and I call it the logic of life but in many ways it's the same essence as John Fullerton's eight principles and by mimicry have their life principles but but but we have kind of offered these seven basic logic of life principles and how can we start to deeply understand how life works how does living systems the only system that has stood the test of time how do those living systems continuously create conditions for more life to thrive and how can we start to integrate that how can we start to deeply understand those life principles so that we can start to play with how do we redesign my area of influence it can be my life it can be my team dynamics it can be my organization my city into life affirming principles the fourth module is is the role of the regenerative leader which to me is the role of the ecosystem nurturer I need to understand how I nurture my own inner ecosystem but also how I nurture greater the greater interconnected web of life how my organization and how my leadership is continuously creating either degenerative or regenerative ripples and how can I how can I nourish this lens within me of noticing and being aware of the importance of creating nurtured nurtured ripples and and the fifth module is the regenerative business and leadership dna that I have co-created with jazz hodgins taking participants through that because it's it's a framework and it's a useful tool for organizations and leaders to get the head around what does regeneration mean and where do we sit with this right now it's it's not a one-size-fits-all it's not a new kind of it's not a replacement for for it's not a kind of new rigid mechanistic tool but it's a framework we have co-created because we sensed a need for making it more accessible and making it more kind of okay this is very overwhelming how do I take the first steps okay I can take the first step by assessing my current conditions to what extent are they regenerative I can get an overview as to where we are right now and what are the elements that I can start to nurture to embark on this regenerative journey so it has proven to be an incredibly useful tool for a transformation for a journey and again it's not a one-size-fits-all it's it's it's created to help you whole space for the process that you are going through it's it's created to help you create an overview and and it's it's created to allow you to start to digest it slowly but surely so that's an important kind of framework for regenerative leaders and then the the sixth module is is regenerative leadership capacities so those are sort of like foundational pillars in a way but then there has been I think we will end up having had or having had almost 30 live sessions I think I think we are at around 22 right now and we have a lot of self-organized sessions coming up here in November and October so it's a mixture of let's learn from each other this is what we have done and this is how our DNA assessments look like and then we tap into the collective intelligence to see what kind of feedback so we can help each other grow and learn and evolve but it is also there's also been quite a few really powerful sessions where nothing is planned but we just hold space together for one session was about grief because that came up in the community as something that felt needed we needed to address that and and grief in in terms of or in the shape of or form of in eco grief eco anxiety whatever you want to call it that deep grief of living through the six mass extinction how do we hold space for that grief within us how do we create space for it and how do we make it okay to sometimes have mini breakdowns where it just become too much and overwhelming we all have also held space for radical honesty how is radical honesty not the same as honesty honesty to me is you you don't lie you you are honest but radical honesty are are what some human beings can access where they dare speak their truth it's not a it's not a ruthless it's not a a toxic toxic way or form of honesty but it's that kind of honesty and integrity where you speak truth to power or speak truth to even if it's uncomfortable you speak your truth and you is it like a push forward from bren browns vulnerability yes exactly that's radical yeah exactly so the journey has been this combination of there are some pillars that that i want them to go through and we we dive deeper into those in live sessions and i wanted to pre-record them so that we didn't have to kind of waste time on going through them when we were together but we could spend the time we had together on diving deeper and and in emergence has been a big part of this journey which is is something that is fascinating to me in general because again it triggers that we've been so we've been deeply taught to when you are the leader of something that you are in control and you have the plan and you execute the plan and it's been interesting to witness how in some it can create this kind of who where we where are we going and and who has to kind of the map and yes i've had pieces of the map but it's also about allowing this process of surrendering together to what wants to emerge for us for this unique constellation of human beings that are representing 34 nationalities where do we need to go this year that that has been super exciting that's so beautiful and a lot of the work you do in the writings the book the the the course the the journey the regenerators journey of 12 months and other things i see a lot of undertones of a lot of great thought leaders a lot of great writers you know not only lin margulis for itself capra uh buck minister fuller the schumacher college you know different places um matter of fact on your website you have a great quote from our buck minister fuller nature is a totally efficient self regenerative system if we discover the laws that govern that system and live synergistically with them sustainability will follow and humankind will be a success i mean wow that's beautiful right it's so beautiful and i just i see that all over and it kind of leads me to the next few questions i have for you because i i read this a lot you know the the question i want to ask you is uh i want to know what your why is what your purpose for existing isn't and i want to caveat that with another saying from our buck minister fuller this is his operating manual for spaceship earth his fabulous book but right on the inside cover of that up at the top it is his why that he wrote you have to imagine he wrote it in 1967 is the first time he said it at the world fair in canada when he presented the world game the geodesid gnome but then he wrote it in this book that was published in 68 and he basically says to make the world work for 100 of humanity in the shortest possible time through spontaneous cooperation without ecological offense or the disadvantage of anyone i mean that was before simon cynic it was before john p's you're like me uh you know start with why or the the why cafe or the big five for life or any of the other you know motivation or self-help books out there that kind of say you know having a purpose having a why is so vile and his why was for the entire planet you know what what a beautiful thing i honestly holds you in the same regard i don't know if you notice when we're sitting across each other at the dinner at the same high regard as all these other thought leaders you've mentioned our buck minister fuller as someone who's really found or calling for for the world and then helping a lot of people helping me as well um i would like to know what your why is i've sensed very early on that that my why was to help the collective transition to and then you it has shifted from being to sustainability to now life affirming ways um but to me the collective plays such a critical role because i i learn and lend wisdom from so many great pioneers that came before me or are still around and indigenous wisdom etc um and i see it as my responsibility but rather honor great honor in this lifetime to help translate some of this wisdom into accessible ways of doing things differently in organizations and in cities and i want to contribute by holding a safe space for the odd ones out for the lonely wolves and have helped them realize that they are not alone and that we are starting to gain traction and that that the the power the force the magnitude of what we're able to do comes when we join forces and also that that it can be painful to join forces because that's also some of what i like to explore deeper and why we also need to lend wisdom from adult development psychology etc because we are not one to one nature you can't take all of the lessons from from from nature and life because we are messy human beings and i see again and again um that people desire to work on their own because it's just easier but we need to join forces we need to we need to as much as possible to collaborate and that doesn't mean that we can't retreat because it's also important to come back to your own essence where am i now with all of what i need to integrate and then go out in the world um but no man is an island right and we we need these communities these movements to to come together although it is is it's incredibly messy it can be at least it can also be beautifully simple but once we start on this journey the journey of a regenerator and once we start to explore as i said before the story of separation and once we start to allow to surrender to to to not having all the answers that we are figuring out as we go along all kinds of things can be triggered um so so i see my role as as as holding space for for regenerators that is so beautiful and i really appreciate you sharing that with us and i have the hardest question i'm going to ask you today and you might want to take a sip of water before before you had to but it's but it's it all it's also you know in line with our buck minister fool and others and i ask all my guests this i've asked um well over 3800 guests so far recorded the same question i would like to know what does a world that works for everyone look like for you the design principle of a world that works for everyone is one that is based on life affirming principles based on the logic of life but i but i say it in with this tone of voice and not kind of the tone of voice because that's easy for me to say the challenge comes in the kind of in that process of rolling up the sleeves and starting to redesign and starting to tear down what no longer serves letting go of what no longer serves collaborating that's the tricky part and and i can say how i would love it to look like and and you can get my my beautiful vision of what are we doing that's what i want yeah um but but how we get there is the is the tricky part that in many ways is what what fascinates me the most because yes we need to turn sunlight into energy we need our cities and our factories to purify water and we need to create live affirming principles or conditions and in every part of the world we need to decolonialize we need to all these things um and and i can see it and i can see that world becoming a reality and i spent a lot of time nurturing that reality because that's that's where i go to regenerate and recharge and that is what is giving me the energy to go out in in this phase of our human evolution that is um that is in many ways um a living breathing a collapse of our civilization as it has been but um but i'm convinced and and sometimes i question whether i've just decided to be convinced because that's my survival strategy and it may be but my survival strategy at least is that i believe that we will succeed coming together in due time um it will quite likely be post-collapse but um but there is also a lot of things that we have in our world right now that we do need to collapse for us to be able to bring in something that is truly based on life affirming principles so we can't just put lipstick on a on a on a pic and the lipstick being that's called it regenerate regeneration now there is there is systems and structures and institutions that needs to collapse so we can build a new based on a new operating or design manual um and and and and that gives me hope because i i can see that happen and i can see regenerators and i'm not talking about my organization but i can see regenerators people that want this this and wants to help bring this into being and dream it into being they are growing in number by the day and that's not just that's not just what i see that is what many other people in in the community and in the movement they see that we're gaining traction right now and yes with that comes the fear of of greenwashing and watering down the essence of regeneration but i think we need to just accept that that is part of of an evolutionary process as long as um as the as the number of of species and and human beings that are that have a strong taproot and are willing to live and breathe regeneration as long as they gain traction and and and and form these imaginal groupings within the dying caterpillar then i believe that that that a beautiful butterfly will emerge in in due time and that is how i kind of put one foot in front of the other um with my small little mini collapses because sometimes i i i get deeply sad um about the state of the world right now deeply concerned and worried as a mom to kala who just turned three and roxy who is nine so so as a as a mom and as a parent i have that concern as well but i see so much beauty as well i love it it's just i there's a thousand things that i could say but i think you said it all um i have three last questions for you one of them is i'm your stalker i've been stalking you falling you reading your books uh for quite some time but even when you're back at sustainia matter of fact i'm closely tied to ted ex humberg and red onion and stefan balzer and you were here in 2017 at the ted ex humberg that's where i live is in humberg uh and i was there so being kind of kind of a silent follower of you were you in the audience yes i was i was in the audience yeah so i've also given a lot of ted talks in that but i i uh am now uh ted ex and humberg in berlin has evolved into boma which is lora stein's new um different version of ted ex it's kind of these boma kind of a african boma deep substance talks you know where you gather around these bomas where there's animals and people on a fire and you have these deep conversations lora stein's a good friend of mine as well so yeah i've been following it for for a long time but the reason i mentioned it is you have these great newsletters these little messages you send out things that you write i follow those as well you the last one you sent out is um kind of answering some questions that you ask but also kind of talking about that it's uh it came out and says is your business a nurtured and nourishing living system and then you go in to talk about how you make money and how you live and how those things and i i not only is it it's uh radically transparent and open with what you've been through and what you're going in and how you live and and that which i think is so vital and powerful but it's also very afraid and you is kind of a fearful thing you say wow i'm putting all this out there about you know the realities and it's because in this especially since the pandemic you know i i do a lot of talks you do as well and and that people think oh now that it's moved to online that that that time that effort the writings the readings the the talks the presentations that has no monetary value anywhere there's no honorary given for that work or effort if you're doing sustainable or environmental things you do it because it's the right thing to do and you don't need to support your family in that and so there's this whole really convoluted way the way we look at money with the way we look at uh honoraries and things and we don't realize that actually this online uh events and things they have a carbon footprint they have an impact on energy they have many things that that do that and so you you um you talk about what are the business models that create financial for flows towards this new regenerated model what are the regenerative models that that are out there so so my and i've been talking about this for quite some time i i believe in regenerative platform systems dynamic business models now wow that's a huge mouthful and for all those who have had the terminology and been in system thinking you know it's not it's not new uh systems dynamic modeling has been around since uh before the club of rome book uh limits to growth 1972 and it's this dynamic modeling that we can use computer modeling technology to kind of see run out scenarios and not predict the future but what do we need to do and where are we going and platforms are something that a lot of the technology or innovation of fiends on this call or have seen platforms are the way hardware software and technology companies are running they run on these platforms which is a different twist on systemic thinking and systemic modeling now if we add that real physical nature ecological regenerative factor into that and we create these models using sustainable technologies using computer modeling using those things but in the real world physical tied to regeneration and nature and how ecology works boy that's a that's just a model for success and i've seen that all the all the organizations that before the pandemic before the economic downturn before the ukraine war who had really implemented some of these sdgs esg and these models into their organization pantagonia is the the latest or greatest big example that has done it but there's many others they all weather these hard times with resilience they have people who are happy and thriving and flourishing their supply chains their customers or contractors their employees everybody they deal with is regenerating and thriving through crazy times and so so that's my answer to your question but i know that you've received many answers on that post and i i kind of want to know what is the general trend because you have your air to the ground you're talking to these people you're working with those what is the what are you seeing what's emerging what what is the answer do you already know it or do you are you just collecting the feedback it and what are what are you seeing coming out of that answer so i wanted to put that out there because i i i personally crave transparency around not just what the the big corporations do but also what consultancies and and just how all all these people that are coming into the regenerative space that that want to sell regenerative services to what extent do they factor that into their business model and and i believe that's an important discussion to to have or space for or things to consider because we are all these ripple creators right and and i i believe in quantum physics i believe that like attracts like i believe that that that the the principles upon which i build my entity and the values are are the values that that entity is able to create more of in in the world so therefore it's important that i have for example do various things so making sure i don't exhaust my own inner resources and do my best to be in right relation do my best to for example sort of like an extra little tax i i channel 10 percent of revenue after local vat has been paid i channel that to regenerating land through organizations that have that as their purpose um amazon frontlines and re-nature has received donations but also empowering indigenous voices so how can can my work within regeneration how can that help help trap channel funds in the direction of the of the real mps in a way of those that we um that we owe so much and and and and we cannot build a world based on life affirming principles unless we protect the sacred wisdom keepers um so so that was just a little discussion that i wanted to have with people in terms of um and actually especially those of this sustainability and regenerative space this is not just something that you preach others to do you have to integrate it and how you were showing up in the world as well um i haven't yet received feedback from those that i really wanted feedback from and i think maybe it triggered some which i understand and i was also part part of my intention but also part of my intention was let's just create transparency around money to a greater extent of course we don't need to kind of air everything if we're not comfortable but there's so much as i also say in that article there's so much shame and shadows around money how about we started to see money as an energetic frequency that was embodying instead of the kind of masculine evil capitalistic energy that we associate with money how about we started to see it as this feminine um compassionate wild creative energy that we could unleash if we did our shadow shadow work around money and now it's maybe getting to woo woo um but um but that's that's some of the questions that i sit with these days how how about we started to change our relationship with money um i'm not from a family that have that have money it's not been part of my kind of upbringing um and i'm okay with that but i think i have had to do some shadow work around money because i'm from a family that have had some in some some patterns around money and corporations are the evil force of society um so intuitively having money was seen as bad because then you were part of that and i think that is a relationship that i've had to heal because no money is an energetic frequency that allow me to feel nourished and allow me to create abundance for the greater interconnected web of life so i want to attract more so i can create more abundance and more resiliency and more power into this into this new tapestry that we are reading i absolutely love it yeah no i think you're creating ripple effects so i'm glad that you're spurring those on i've i've received um four calls three emails specifically about that newsletter that they knew that i was going to have a conversation with you um and they says boy how powerful that is so i believe there is a ripple effect and i believe even though you might not have heard back from those specific organizations that you were looking for i think they've got the message and and and that we'll hear back from some of them um the last two questions are really if there was one message or even two that you could depart to my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life what would it be your message what comes to me is surrender to not knowing and surrender to to be kind to yourself in terms of not having it all figured out we are so trained to be to be kind of grade eight students and right now the world needs your true raw authenticity right now we need people who stand strong in who they truly are and speak from that point of view so nurture that deep inner voice deep inner calling nurture your authenticity honor the sacred being that you are and create the conditions for that sacred being to thrive and bring the medicine that you can only bring to the world we are all deeply unique and we need all the potent medicine that that we can get right now so speak your truth but also dare to surrender to nature the nature within and the nature around us because we are part of nature and if we forget that we will continue to cause destruction so honor yourself honor your true authentic inner nature and um and and go about yourself in a gentle and kind way I find that it's the most powerful and at the end also the most efficient and quickest way forward I think you've already answered my last question a couple times and so I'm going to reframe a little bit of a different question because you have your air to the ground because you talk to a lot of people because you've been in this space a long time I see you as a regenerative futurist somebody who's kind of what's this journey we need to go on how does the future look and you've answered that that question for us as a tip to all the listeners what where should they be looking what should they be thinking about what what will be a nugget of advice that will help them to get to that regenerative future that we'd like to have what what can you give them as a form of advice um again it would my message would be follow your intuition don't think that there's a 10-step process or a model or framework that you need to go through there's no one right way or there's no one size fits all I think what is what it's most important for us to do right now is to unleash our human ingenuity and we do that by letting go of shame we do that by letting go of um of of that heart criticizer in a voice that many of us have it it it it it's about unleashing life force I see that as a collective theme for our species right now free as of the shackles and and and be who we truly are and allowing ourselves space to do that without having it all figured out to let go of all the programs and and and surrender to not having all the answers and allows on something new and amazing and automatically to to emerge but create the conditions for you to be able to do that in a way that is unique to you it it shouldn't look like my journey or Mark's journey or other people's journey you have a unique journey and the exciting in life is to figure that out and of course we can lend wisdom and inspiration from each other and we can hold each other's hands but it's at the end of the day it's about coming home to you Laura Storm thank you for lending us all inside of your ideas your fabulous book regenerative leadership that's all I have for you all the questions I have unless there's something you didn't get to tell us or something you wanted to ask me I just thank you so much for your time it's great to see you again thank you so much it was really a pleasure and an honor to be on on this amazing show mark and thank you so much for all of the wonderful work that that you do and the way that you are weaving and being a co-creator and it was really lovely to meet you also two weeks ago it was definitely that feeling of of meeting another soul brother and a kindred spirit so thank you for coming into my life thank you so much Laura take care take care bye