 Well, hey everybody, it is Tuesday afternoon here and wherever you are joining us. Thank you for joining us today. I'm super excited to have a longtime friend and colleague Dr. Hedaya here with me today. We're going to dive deep into some new therapies for dysfunctional medicine, treating brain disorders, the neuro psychology, we're going to dive deep. He's even going to share some slides which I know my audience really loves those kind of technical tidbits, and I know a lot of physicians listen and watch too. So we're going to probably be speaking at a pretty high level and hopefully those of you who are not in medicine will enjoy it and find it relevant. And of course, if you're a physician or a practitioner of any type in functional integrative precision or personalized medicine, I'm sure you will really enjoy Dr. Hedaya's presentation. Just a little housekeeping, if you want to find any of my information, we've got like 10 years of free blogs online at JillCarnahan.com, it's all free. I still write a blog every week because I really, really love to educate so you can find anything there. If you want to find any products, my store is just Dr. JillHealth.com. And if you haven't been following on YouTube or on the podcast, you can find this on anywhere you listen to podcasts, Stitcher, iTunes, etc. And you can also find all the reruns and the other interviews I've done on my YouTube channel, which is just under my name, JillCarnahan. We've literally got, I think this is almost the 90th episode. So we've got a lot of free content there. If you like this. There's also another episode with Dr. Hedaya. If you enjoy this content, you can go and find that one as well and watch it there. One other just update. You heard my last podcast called After the Fire, which came up very quickly. You many of you have heard. It's been nationally covered. The Marshall Fire on December 30th really affected my hometown of Louisville and Superior. It caused a loss of over a thousand homes and many businesses. We're fine. We were located right smack dab in the center of my office of literally a loss of homes and neighborhoods all around. So number one, I'm super grateful to be here. Bob and I, Dr. Hedaya and I were talking right before this of just, you know, we're scientists first and we're in medicine, but we both believe that there's a lot of things we don't always see that really matter in life. And for me, this was just one more confirmation that not that I'm more special than anyone who lost homes, but I'm grateful to the fact that my office is still standing and I feel there's a great meaning and purpose in that. One of the things I'm going to keep sharing with you is I've been partnering with air filter companies and we're going to do our best to bring donations and resources to the community, because you've probably heard me say before, Clean Air is so foundational to mental and physical health. And we take it for granted until we can't breathe. And I just noticed now in the last several weeks one of our biggest problems is all of the BOCs and the benzene and tooling and chemicals from the burning buildings has really affected our community. So I am absolutely dedicating any resources that I can gather to my community for improving the air quality. And like I said, if you want to partner or if you want to learn more just stay tuned. If you do want to just be updated on any initiatives in our area, we've dedicated an email and we'll be sending out updates on that. It's just Clean Air at flatter and functional medicine. You can just email there and say would like more info and we will be sure to include you, or if you'd like to donate or help with the cause, that'd be great. So now without further ado, I'm going to introduce my friend and colleague Dr. Hadea to you and then I will jump right in and let him present. Hadea, who has many, many initials behind his name has been practicing at the cutting edge of psychiatry clinical psychopharmacology and neuropsychology since 1979. He's pioneered the use of functional medicine in these fields in 1996 he's clinical professor of psychiatry at Georgetown University Medical Center, where he's been awarded as teacher of the year and three occasions while teaching courses on effective mood disorders and cognitive therapy and PN IE which is psychoneuroimmune endocrinology all of how these systems interconnect in our bodies. He's also the winner of the prestigious Vincenna award at Georgetown. He's an educator and faculty member at the Institute of functional medicine. He's author of three books understanding biological psychiatry, the antidepressant survival guide and brain recovery center. He's featured in the local and national media 2020 60 minutes and many other places. If you want to find more info will repeat this at the end but his website is www.wholepsychiatry.com. It is absolutely an honor and privilege to talk to you again Dr. Hadea. Welcome to the show. Hi guys are calling me Bob. Yes, it's great. It's been 42 years since I've been doing this I guess I'm going on 43. So I'm listening to that you read all those like me I've done a lot of stuff. I know the time it doesn't like wow that has actually happened. Well let's go back real quickly before we dive into the topic I went and you price of this last time you're on but tell us a little bit about number one how did you get into medicine and then how did you get into functional medicine. I got into medicine it was like I basically was following my older brother. You know I was always interested in science and curious about astronomy and biology and that kind of thing but it was just was the thing to do in the 70s. Truth truth is I think it was being guided I didn't really know what I was doing I was very immature, extremely immature. But so I got into it and I was always curious about basically trying to find the truth. Yeah, bottom line trying to find the truth and get to what really works what doesn't work and then in Sting was 85 I had a patient that was doing standard psychiatry, you know kind of cutting edge because I had trained at National Institute of mental health so I really knew what was on the cutting edge and I was doing cognitive behavioral therapy which is cutting edge at the time etc. And treating a woman with 50 years old with panic disorder, which was easy to treat cognitive behavioral therapy, amypromine, Xanax, you know whatever it is it's easy to treat Nardil phenylsine whatever she didn't respond for a year. And I've told the story so many times and then she paged me when we had beepers those days no phones at a wedding and dancing Saturday night and I get my beeper goes I got to go find a phone booth, you know, and I call as a join what's going on and I'm having a panic and I'm like what is going on here. It's a year already. The year. And so I went into the office early Monday morning. The only thing I had was a CBC and the CBC showed the MCB the size of the red blood cells was 101 the normal 80 to 100 101. I ignored it because I was trained. Just a little bit out of the range and I didn't even know what it meant. Okay, and it wasn't my domain. So I ended up doing some research I said oh it could be a B12 deficiency macrosidic anemia. And so I did a shillings test which was available at the time B12 deficiency B12 injection panic gone, like, oh my God, what else am I missing here. What else and then from there, my mother in law was ill and she died a mix of Dima, the internist didn't treat her properly. It's a highly sensitive TSH same test with today. The upper limit you wouldn't believe us Joe was 10. Oh my she was mix of Demetis kind of demented. And when I convinced the internist to treat her, he got her TSH to nine she was a little better I said can we give her a little more he said no. She's normal. Wow. I had a mix of Dima and I feel terrible I didn't have the confidence I'm a psychiatrist I'm not an internist right. Well now I'm really kind of like Mark Hyman says accidental psychiatrist I'm an accidental internist. Yeah. Oh was things like that and just as you dig deep you learn that the brain and the body are one thing and then spirit in the mind, the psychology the social etc. It's one thing. And what I really learned in my training was, which was very confusing because everyone said that they had the answer to mental illness. You know it's cognitive therapy or it's psychopharmacology or it's family systems. What I really it took me a long time to figure this out that they were all right it just depended on the lens that met low level of magnification that you're looking at. That's why I came up with whole psychiatry because I like to kind of look from the molecular or sub molecular to the spiritual and everything in between that's kind of how I approach it. Bob I love that story, a couple things that are so relevant number one truth seekers like you and I and anyone in this field. We went into medicine, not just to be doctors like that said after thought it's great but the truth is we want to know answers and I think that is the differentiating factor between someone who gets their medical degree and then stops learning and you and I and anyone in our field that's continuing on is, I want to know the why and so I was asking what else, what else, what else is possible. And that also opens it up this up to stuff we weren't taught in medical school, or that really kind of blows our mind sometime like how could this be possible but it does seem to show a pattern, and then we look further and not that we have all the answers but we're willing to ask the questions right. And again that's the difference between someone who's continuing to learn and grow. And I've seen things like we talked before we got on about some miracles that we've both seen that don't have any logical explanation. But that's a kind of wonder. And so we have the science background but it's the open right brain creative that really gets the creative solutions that aren't always thought of and again you're in this field you're we're going to talk today about some of these creative solutions you need that ability to think outside the box because that's where we get these new solutions and these things that again sometimes energetically don't make sense but they start to fall into place. And then the other thing you alluded to is accidental internist or whatever field that we weren't trained in in our system of conventional medicine we're trained in silos. We have the rheumatologist and the gastroenterologist and the neurologist psychiatrist, and then me as family medicine which is the least respected of all of them. And, and what happens is we all have our own silos and we don't go outside there and the truth is the body is one. So whether it's your joints or your brain or your, you know, mental health, it's all connected. So you and I have really learned, we have to know a little bit about all these areas and then know the people that we can connect with like you as a psychiatrist I would send someone to you if I need some deeper health on mental disorders, and we can collaborate but it's not silo medicine is it. No, no systems biology. Everything's, everything's interacting with everything. Yeah, yeah. So let's introduce the topic well and then let's go from you kind of got into the like you said the whole body and really as far as what I when I remember hearing functional medicine it was like aha right like that when we first hear that it's usually what our heart and soul and mind is kind of seeking we just didn't maybe have a title for it. And I think both of us got in right at the grounds well I know for me it's been 20 years for you maybe even a little longer. You're probably in the some of those original groups with Jeff Glenn and yeah, yeah. So, but when we find that this systems biology that seeks to find root cause it really resonates with why we went into medicine. Doesn't it. Yeah. So let's introduce what you're talking about now this new Highline technology and I'm going to confess I don't know a lot I'm here to learn just like everybody else listening. Tell us what is this how did you get into it and let's go from there. So, so first thing is when I got into functional medicine. I was blown away. I wrote my second book was bestseller. And I was like, I was bombarded because we had four pages in the Washington Post, and we had thousands and thousands of calls for months because it was basically a way of treating depression without medication, or using less medication couldn't treat all these people. So I screened people for people for I look for people who would do a very, very thorough very, very comprehensive functional medicine program treatment resistant depression, which as you may know from the star these study, only 25% of people with treatment resistant depression with the conventional treatments of anti-depressants and psychotherapy will respond at one year only 25% that's worse than placebo. So I start treating everyone I was a psycho I'm trained as a psychopharmacologist so I was using meds like crazy up up until the mid 90s then I took functional medicine and I wrote the book. I said, Okay, these people are ready for it. So let me do it. Very thorough, I like to dive into all the systems. That's the way I do it. I dive in all at once. It's a lot of work, but it really works. And after a couple or three years I'm like, I'm not even prescribing meds anymore. And I think everybody's getting better. And then I know what I think maybe I'm lying to myself. So I hired a statistician who took all my cases of treatment resistant depression for that period of time let's say two years. It was 23 people. The mean Beck depression inventory score was 34 roughly 34 when I started. And by 10 months they were all normal. 100% not only that diabetes gone. Yeah, one woman with MS her MS lesions gone osteoporosis gone, you know, I'm like, you know, quality of life energy, blah, blah, blah, I'm like, this is mind boggling mind boggling. Okay, so fast forward that so that's what I'm doing from from like 2002 2017 and I retired actually 2014 and then I didn't last very long. I went back into practice and then I, I had a, I took a retreat somewhere and I was just lying on a hammock for hours and reading and thinking about it. I don't know how I got into it. I started thinking about lasers. And so it's like 2017 2018 or something. And I'm thinking like, well, how do you know like where to apply the laser and then I thought about QG's about I just had an epiphany I was like, Oh, I think I need to learn QG's I need to learn about lasers of etc. And so I started to dive into that so high lane is hyperbaric oxygen laser and neural exercises. That's high lane. I developed this technique. It's patent pending actually to guide the laser to the site based on my QG analysis. So I've been studying the QG now four years or so. And it's a mine. I can't believe I practice without it. So what I learned this is how I got into this the first case that I did this with actually I'm going to share my screen here and show you kind of excited about this I just got an article accepted for publication. Today, it's this article here. Wow. Amazing. Okay, so reversal of acquired prosopagnosia using quantitative EG guided laser therapy. Okay, so this just came out. For a lay audience, go ahead and define prosopagnosia prosopagnosia is the inability agnose is you can't recognize something prosop is the face so you don't recognize faces. So this was a woman who was in her fifties or so, and she had acquired it meaning she wasn't born with this. You had something that happened and she acquired it. And, and there's no treatment for this right. Okay, so basically she also had mild cognitive impairment family history of dementia that was very strong. And she also had temporal lobe seizures. So basically, I'll skip through this but I'll show you some images. So this is her cue. I'll show you this on a different screen actually here. So be a little better here. So this is a QG. This is one one way of looking at a QG. There's many, many aspects to it. Anything that's gray is normal. Anything that's yellow is or red is overactive or blue is underactive. So here we're looking at the eyes are in the front the area where you see my cursor if you can see my cursor here is right ear left ear right here. And so we see that the red course hairs hairs are pointing at the area of maximal instability abnormality of the brain now here's this is the hippocampus this is the memory center right for formulating memory right. Her hippocampus was 2.2 2.7 standard deviations from the norm, meaning it's way way malfunctioning in a very significant way. And it's overactive this is the funny thing right the brain spends most of his energy keeping the foot on the pedal inhibiting neuronal function that's what takes the energy. She doesn't have the energy the processes to keep this stable for a variety of reasons. So here's her hippocampus before the treatment. And you can see there's abnormalities in different areas of the brain and this is this yellow stuff here is information flow so we can actually expand on this and and that the information from Broadman area this particular area here is is actually excessive information flow. That's like me yelling in your ear really loud. You would not saying something but you still couldn't use it. Yeah, yeah, blue is poor information flow it's like me whispering and you know I'm maybe saying somebody still can't get information right. And then whoop. And then after the treatment. Here. Wow. This is after hyperbaric oxygen functional medicine. Well, let me back up this first image here is after functional medicine. Wow. That's what blew me away. Yeah. Important to that Bob is you're doing all that nutrition, the diet, the infections, the toxic like all the stuff that I do in clinical practice, and you still have this massive abnormality. Yes, and that's what blew me away because clinically, she's doing better, not perfect she's still having some memory problems she's still having some absence she still has a prosopagnosia can recognize faces. And you know it's still some stuff but she's working out in the gym again, and she's doing better in a lot of ways. And then I do her QG and this is my first QG. And I'm like, whoa, I can't believe this, you know, I've been treating people now with functional medicine for 20 years and brain problems I couldn't believe it. And then what we did is we did laser treatments. And to specific areas on the left side of her brain, the areas that that I mapped out based on this and, and here she's she's basically normal her hippocampus is now normal, everything's normal here is a little inflammation information flow problem here but it's very very minor less than before unbelievable. So that's, that is, there's a few points here, because remember where put it applying light is debate about LEDs whether they penetrate the skull or not or whatever you know etc but we do have evidence. And I think that the point here is that that the laser light is, you know, more coherent and that it penetrates but I don't know that we know that it penetrates to the hippocampus. Yeah, we don't know that so I think that basically by applying the light that the energy brain has its energy and then it can do the processes needs to do and it translates down to deeper structures. Now Bob a couple questions come to mind that I'm just wondering number one I'm guessing that, like, because you showed this woman who she had a really good functional model and care and it was improving. And yet you show us the images of the ED and they're dramatically off their abnormal. And I'm guessing that a lot of people can. I mean I've even felt this in my own life with mold exposures I can function on a really high level, even if I'm quite affected neurologically by the mold right like no one would maybe notice I can still make solve problems I can still. So I'm guessing that you see that people can actually function pretty well when they have pretty significant impairments due to toxin or infection or inflammation, is that true. And we actually know in dementia that higher functioning you are let's say you're multi lingual professor or something like that, that you could be developing Alzheimer's for example. And if we looked in your brain below my this is terrible but on the in the world, you will find and you'll actually when they discover you have Alzheimer's, your brain will actually look a lot worse than other discovered because you've been able to function so much or because of your capacity so I think that's definitely. So, the other point on this one is that we showed continued improvement one month without treatment in other words a brain continued to assimilate the treatment. Wow. Three months, however there was deterioration because she has the April we for you know, there are other processes so she needs maintenance of this is not that much maintenance but she needs maintenance. And then we did objective testing of her. Well, this is the QG objective this testing this is objective testing of the Cambridge facial recognition test, and she scored really well. Wow, unbelievable. The case you know. And so that's that's the first case the latest case, I'll tell you, is a woman who's about 72 with. She has dementia and she has, you know, all the stuff we see in dementia you know the diabetes and you know toxins in the mold and the whole thing. And I just felt like she has most important thing for what I'm going to tell you she has some phasor she couldn't really speak a full sentence. And then we did the, the QEG, etc. And I lasered her and, and her she started speaking full sentences after the first treatment, not, not normal. Okay, but, but full sentences, the two or three full sentences in a row the husband and I were both crying. Wow. And, you know, that's not going to happen for everybody obviously only you get to something the better it is we know that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But we have that I have this is a case here. This is a, this is a guy who had schizophrenia, what facial distort that he would see people's faces as being hostile to him. And so he was paranoid. And I found this track here, you know, this, this is the vertical occipital physicals and the superior longitudinal physicals I believe, and we lasered him here, and right here, and the cleared up and his facial recognition cleared. His distortion went away. And interestingly, his reading ability improved and this track here has a big effect on reading ability. I didn't, I didn't know that but that's what happened so we have that and here's a guy. This is a guy with basically this this guy here. Anyway, I could go through cases I'm not, I don't think you want to hear more cases and if you want I can but but you see just it's a clear thing so the main idea is to use the functional medicine and then layer on to it the high and sometimes use hyperbacks sometimes the neuro feedback, sometimes it's laser, you know, different things. It's like you have more tools in your toolbox but a couple of things that like first of all, you're sitting on this retreat and it's kind of back to our first start there like we are scientists left brain and we were kind of in that way, but I feel like the real brilliant inspirations come from that right brain place when we're resting and we're open, and you and I have a belief in a greater power and so often I find those miracles come from this place that we can't always explain. And when you told your story that was my thought is like you got a divine inspiration. I mean, I just love that. It felt that way. I felt, I was moved. I just felt like I was in a different place. Yeah. And it's always that place where we really surrender we were talking about that before to the world as the chaos and the pandemic keeps going and but the part of the lesson that we're all learning in this and you're listening probably the same same story is this surrender and the more often that we surrender to something it's it's unexpected it's not the way we would have planned it it's we let go of control but the outcomes are often way more miraculous and unexpected and beautiful than if we were to plan and control for it and all that. So I love that story. Now I have lots of questions, a couple things. I just want to underline what you said. Well, I really believe I know you'll agree. Healing occurs physically and spiritually it's it's a bimodal thing it's an interactive thing. If you you really need to the you know we are connected to the metaphysical realm, whether people want to believe it or not, there's facts that show this to be the case. We just have a narrow view where interaction like a bilipid membrane you know there's interactions between this domain and the quantum domain and the metaphysical donor. There's interactions and when you ask your higher power for health you get help, and you get protection and so you need to be always looking at healing, where's the healing, where's the gratitude, where's the good so there's always good stuff coming, even out of Corona there's good stuff coming, you know, and get more good out of the bed, usually. You just have to be in a in that framework where you open your mind out of the physical and heal on both levels. That's just I love that synopsis because again that's what I believe to and I've seen it in action and I again I love thinking about like left brain right and analytical versus creative and I was born kind of an analytical engineering scientist and God has really opened my eyes to the intuitive in this other realm and I'll tell you what sometimes I always when I'm trying to explain it to patients or other people. It's almost like our left brain is an analytical computer that's analog and very it can take hundreds of pieces of data and process it and come up with a solution. So when we open to the creative intuitive the more spiritual realm, we can literally subconsciously process in seconds or milliseconds millions of pieces of data and come to a conclusion that's actually according to even good science is more right on more times than our analytical mind so it's kind of like using both of those. And I always say, I'm more now than ever open to that realm for answers and then I prove it with science like I use both just like you do. You took a statistician and took your dad and said, What's the science behind what I'm doing. And you proved it, but some of the most beautiful things that we see happen in that realm of being open to intuition. And I love that because I'm learning to trust it more and more than I used to. I'm both a tailor wrote my stroke of insight. I don't know if you've read that. It's a phenomenal short book where basically a lot of her left brain was wiped out and so you actually has a right brain experience mind but you won't be able to put it down. Oh, I'm going to go get it right away. Stroke of insight you said I stroke of insight. Oh, great. So as I'm listening a couple of things first of all what I wanted to emphasize for those of you listening, the functional medicine still kind of the basic foundation so diet nutrition treat so you're still doing kind of that approach looking at infections and gut and toxins and all those things. But again what what you found and what I found to is there's a limit there's like a wall you might hit where there's, you know, a certain place where you can't go beyond. And that's where you're finding these extraordinary therapies of hyperbaric and lasers. So let's talk real briefly say one example there what would be a typical treatment like like how many sessions a hyperbaric with that take like maybe case one or case two, and then what with the laser sessions look like to like what kind of amount of time or effort with this take. So the hyperbaric, you know, the standard if it's indicated would be a minimum of 40 sessions use soft chambers I think that the brain injury that's pretty good. It's accessible to people and you know they're doing our I don't have people put on a, I have them use an oxygen concentrator. I don't have them wear a mask and breathe 100% oxygen I am really uncomfortable with it. Because of the count the count of regulatory mechanisms and the proxidation and I'm not comfortable but having oxygen coming in so you're getting more oxygen at pressure daily if you can or five days a week 40 sessions and you recheck and see how things are going. And it depends on the condition some people use it as a health maintenance measure. And some people they're done at 40 sessions you know. And then laser. It kind of varies you know so you know I treat a guy. Well a woman with with depression really treating resistant depression. We young 30 years old we did the functional medicine worked on all the stuff and then we did the laser when I feel like it's like the brain is like a plant, get the order, make sure this water then give the light. Sometimes, sometimes you can't you have to give the light right away but in her case, it was 10 treatments. Fine, I got a woman who's 80 years old with treatment resistant depression wants to get over effects are and we're treating her and she's coming over for effects are and she's doing better than she's done in years and years no depression this winter for the first time with the laser, you know, and then. But then you have someone like the first case I pros of technology where she's going to need maintenance, you know. This is amazing and. So, like I said, one thing I have a question hyperbaric. Is there any contraindications or any patients that you would not give hyperbaric to. There's obviously, first of all, if you've had a pneumothorax in the last year or, you know, maybe two years, you're not going to do it. There's controversy about seizures. Some people say, you know, it can promote Caesar some people say no, I haven't seen it promote season we have a lot of people who have pre seizure activity and it doesn't seem to be any problem. And of course, if you have a sinus infection, you can't clear your ears that kind of thing. I think those are the high level contraindications I would say. That makes sense. Okay. No, no, no, I'm good. And you talked about the controversy, but you're clearly getting results. It's interesting because I have heard the controversy read it, and back five, six years ago when I really had the mold issue I was using a device that goes on the head and does the red light and it's very controversial because can it even go through this call it has one a prong that goes up the nose, you know what I'm talking about. And for me, it was profound I think it was a 40 hertz so more the alpha. And for me, I, in fact, I still if I have a day I need just to be focused that really really works for me, but it's so funny because it's very generic the placement right like who knows where it's going. What's your thoughts on that. I mean, it's not even close to what you're doing with a precision, but to me that was an aha personally to know there's something this light really does work. Yeah, so I mean I think I've been in debate about this with some people and looking at the literature and it's almost like, here's where I'm at so does it penetrate. I don't have any evidence. Could there be remote effects, remote effects. My concern is, is that the people who are promoting it. So I'm not doubting that it worked for you by the way, I think it worked for you, but the history and psychiatry over 250 years is that there's always like a paradigm and everybody's excited and the research says, yeah, isn't it great and then people go out like they used to take psychiatric patients and put them in like these centrifuges to spin them. And they were like, wow, this is really working the psychosis the neurosis going away. Why don't I build one for 10 people. So all the health institutions had these carousels centrifuges for 10 people and believable. And the research was people making money and then the research so good and then that's years right there takes 50 or 60 a cycle, and then it doesn't work. Oh, but the insulin coma insulin coma really then is, you know, yeah, we're. So there's always the fed and the people who are marketing these things doing the studies are making my concern is, I want to see studies from objective non interested parties. Not from the company who makes the device. I think the light is really, I don't have any questions about the light being effective. And I'm going to say your device is effective for but it's not as targeted. Yeah, as my device mine is more much more specific for specific conditions etc and, and I hope it's true that it works and you know, I mean, well, I almost am saying that because I so agree with you what you're doing is such on a different level than anything. And interestingly, for me that pulsed electromagnetic frequency the PMF which does have decent data. I found just as good a benefit with that so it's something energetically again it might like you said it could be a very not specific. It could be the light energy of some you know frequency that is not at all specific and I believe that and the more it's been since that time of this device coming out. The more I doubt, is that really the way to go so what I love is that you're doing this very targeted specific, and hopefully, are there other people interested in what you're doing and learning it like, can we multiply what you're doing and teach this and share it and the teaching it to clinicians you know I mean it took me, you know, a lot of time to learn figure this thing out but, and I'm still learning obviously. But yeah, I'm happy to teach it I've. I had to put the whole treatment on hold initially the laser treatment, not the, not the hyperbaric and not the neurofeedback we actually have kind of figured out how to do neurofeedback and people's home so we can do it because of COVID now we can do it anywhere in the country. Oh that's amazing that's even better so you can do it remote. What are options if people like what's the best getting your book going to the website how can people get more information about what you're doing, and not overwhelm you. I think. I haven't published except for this article. I just found out today, if I wanted to be open access is $3200. Donate to the cause Bob I'm going to put that out there because I love your work. Nobody's going to read this this is terrible. Now nobody's going to know about it. So that was news to me so how to, I guess, if you're needing treatment or you, if you have some serious interest, I mean, contact me through the websites the best way I have. I started writing a book. I want to write about this and get it out there, you know, it's got to get out there and, and I'm open to treating physicians who because this is a class four medical device and you know you really need to know what you're doing. You know, I'm like say goodbye to psychiatry I mean psychology but meds and therapy I'm not anti therapy I think there's specific places for therapy and even meds I'm not anti meds this specific places for meds for sure. But the data the science is so beyond where people are practicing that you know this is 50 years ahead 70 years ahead, you know. There's something called standard of care that we all know about in medicine if you're listening you don't have medicine it's like what's the standard of the average doctor what they do in their office and so we are all kind of set, you know, up against that standard of care. The problem is that's 30 years old, maybe 50 years old. It's not at the bleeding cutting edge of what's advancements and good science are showing us as possible, Bob and I are kind of pushing that edge we're always trying things my my theory is always as long as there's very little risk and I understand what I'm doing, and I get full informed consent I'm willing to push that with patients. You know, of course with their permission with stuff that has decent early preliminary data that it's safe and effective. And so you and I are thinking on that. And I believe this kind of stuff with light and with hyperbaric and with some of the new things that we have and more in an energetic realm to this is where medicine is headed because it's so much more powerful than the old pharmaceuticals like one receptor type of medicine. And we speak of safety with the with the laser. We're very careful about you know obviously you don't want to eat anything so we do always do an MRI make sure there's no, no lesions in the brain etc before we do anything like this we want to know what we're doing where we're doing it as it is. So that safety is obviously number one. Yeah so so that's kind of what we're doing and real quick question again this is me just, you know wondering. I've done some neuro quant I haven't found them super helpful and for anyone who knows what they are, or doesn't know what they are. This is just volume metrics of the brain portion so say the hippocampus it'll tell us the volume, an average volume in compared to average populations and again what you can see is expansion or atrophy or shrinkage of different regions and maybe make assumptions again, I don't know how much we have clinical application of that I've not, you know, but I'm curious as to do you think the e g findings will sometimes correlate with that or is it totally how they correlate, the e g correlates with MRI correlates symptomatically correlates with the DTI is in the literature and the neuro quant it correlates. The neuro quant I use, you know I use it here and there. I like it. I just ordered one today on someone with, I don't think she has Parkinson's but she looks like she has Parkinson's things that traumatic head injury. But I did, for example, about two and a half years ago I did a neuro quant on a woman who had motor problems and some cognitive problems, and she had shrinkage of various areas of the containment that are really subnormal and then we repeated it two years later she's normal. Wow. Wow. That's powerful. It is. Oh, and she couldn't believe it. She's I don't believe I said, well you have to leave. Okay, we have this data. Well, that's again how we can kind of, I know what does that really mean. Your brain as we see the brain grows back. Yeah. Yeah, that's, you know, that's the one message we leave people with the neuroplasticity, which is, you know this better than anyone you want to describe to the general person listening what is neuroplasticity and what does that mean for you if you're ill or for us as physicians. So we are, we are neuroplastic right we learn we change right and that is always reflected in changes in how the brain nuclei the groups of cells or nerve tracks the highways of the brain the information hires of the brain. If you have PTSD certain ones get bigger and the others get smaller and the traffic, the information flows rooted down the wrong highway, you know, it's the brain is morphing slowly over time all the time so it has that ability now if you give it. Like Baker said Cindy Baker, take the bad stuff out put in the good stuff. And then it actually heals. If you have one thing to talk about is like chronic line right like line much more ubiquitous and people think right. Yes, like that, you know is going to impair your plasticity right so you have to make sure to test in the way the way we've been testing this is kind of interesting is doing challenge test now. And what we do is we, you know, we put people on antibiotics for or urbils, but generally antibiotics for three or four weeks, and then do a very, very thorough panel with IG next. And then, you know, we're more likely to see a positive and we don't see a positive then we, you know that okay, you don't have it but to overlook that could be a big problem, but the plasticity is like amazing. It's a lot of work. It is and you describe it all your protocols and everything so easily but what Dr Bob does here is phenomenal and at a level that's probably the top point 1% of our colleagues in the whole United States so it is just a pleasure to hear about this I can't wait to hear to read your book and to hear more as it comes out. People can find you at whole psychiatry calm is that correct. So anyone knows a good author who can help me by the. Let me know. I'll be in touch after. So, thanks again for your info today Bob is just a pleasure as always to talk to you. Right, thank you so much for your great teaching and great work and educating the public you're just doing such a great service I see you on your retreats that you're going on like, I want to go. Thank you. Thank you. Well we'll keep talking we'll have you on again and talk some more. Thanks again, Bob. Thank you.