 While we're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa, we'll look at the education sector and the unions. The federal government is set to release the sum of 1.18 billionare for pivoting autonomy of universities. The sum also covers renauguration of the 2010 agreement between the academic staff union of polytechnics, the non-academic staff union of universities and other allied associations and senior staff association of Nigerian polytechnics. Though the government did not give a breakdown of how we plan to disbourse and distribute the amount among the unions, the amount set aside to the autonomy of universities has been described as very important. Now to note that the amount was listed as new project in the approved 2023 budget for tertiary institution in the country. The tertiary institution in Nigeria have been bedeviled by union activities, poor infrastructure and poor welfare of workers and poor funding among others. Meanwhile the unions have reacted differently to the move by the government saying it's not in line with the provisions of negation among orders. Joining us this morning to make sense of all of this, Olu Dare Akinlaja, founder of the Yadda University and also CEO Olu Dare Akinlaja Research and Development Company right here in Lagos, thank you so much for joining us. To be here, thanks for having me. I'd like to ask you, what are your thoughts about this move by the federal government, do you think this is going to help in solving the agitation between the federal government and the union? So I don't think it's going to do a lot and and that's because there's so much in that agreement and the federal government just seems to be playing it, what's the word now, just trying to use trickles to get the association quiet, okay? As we can see here, it's autonomy. There's a lot that the federal government needs to still do to grant these universities full autonomy. 1.18 billion, is this for financing the universities? Is it for paying staff salaries? Is it for making universities independent of state financing? What exactly is it for? And whatever it is for, 1.18 billion cannot even begin to scratch the surface of the needs of the universities. So I just think the federal government is being smart by half, if there's a word like that and maybe appease the growing tension on the grain and gang resentment coming from the union. I don't think this will do a lot. If indeed it is for university autonomy, then I don't think it will do a lot because I'm asking this question based on the word university autonomy. I don't think it's going to do a lot to grant that autonomy. You rightly said this has been put as a project in the approved 2023 budget for tertiary institutions of the country. What does the government mean by pivoting autonomy or when they say they want to pivot autonomy at the autonomy of universities? What does that mean? Okay, so they're actually using a language which is not strange. What they're trying to say is autonomy is being broken down into faces because at university autonomy or the autonomy that universities need is not just one off in some cases. Universities are asking for autonomy financially. That means looking for ways where they can run their system themselves and be free of state funding. Another kind of autonomy is universities being able to recruit students into the universities. That's one form of autonomy. Another form of autonomy is universities being able to employ staffs, teachers and be able to pay them. Another form of autonomy is being able to control their curriculum, what they teach, how they teach it. Okay, so when they use what pivoting it simply means they want to kickstart the face to grant full autonomy to universities. So they're not wrong in using that word. My challenge is what exactly are they pivoting with? Okay, are they pivoting with allowing universities employ, allowing universities fund themselves? What exactly are they pivoting with? What face of that autonomy are they pivoting with? Well, by responding to, you know, this move by the government, the unions have also reacted. They have raised some questions as well asking the few have also raised, but one of such is that they're saying that this is not in line with collective bargaining procedures and as such they don't think that is valid. So collective bargaining, so if you remember like you just rightly said, the union had, it is the kind of idea if there's a word like that with the government about how they expect this to go. Okay, what they expect to happen. So that collective bargaining is what they are speaking to. They are saying there are certain things we asked for. There are certain things with demand. Okay, don't start from where you think is comfortable for you. So start with what we have asked for. Okay, give us autonomy from this point, allow us able to recruit, allow us able to be able to benchmark salaries for our staffs, allow us able, we should be able to pay, we should be able to fund, you know. So there was an agreement, I'm sure that's what the union is speaking to. That agreement must be followed based on what was written to the federal government. Actually, the federal government is just picking a spot or a point in that agreement or maybe a point that's comfortable for them where they can still hold the car out on the stick or still hold the string and still determine what. And I'm sure the union is not having that. They want the federal government to follow through on the requirements of that agreement they had with the federal government. And the agreements with the federal government, they have that agreement. And I think they should look for ways where they can afford that agreement. Even if they break it down into phases, if they look for a point on the phase where they can base on what they must follow through on the agreement that was made. But let's speak to, you know, the issue of autonomy for universities. Now, do you think that, you know, velocity autonomy is a solution to end all of the strike and all of the infrastructural issues in our universities? Yes. And I've been asked this at different forums. You must understand that most of the things we follow today was created by the military government as far back as 1977, for instance, where we only had 12 universities. Okay. So most of this control, what happens in universities, determining what is thought was created by military governments to some extent. Okay. And what this does is that universities cannot really move at the pace of research and development going around the world like we see today, because they still rely on state for funds. They still rely on state to determine certain things. So if I give you money to run your system, I obviously can't tell you what to teach. I can't tell you how far your curriculum can go. I can't tell you what you need to put in that curriculum, how you need to teach it. I can't even tell you the kind of solution you must admit to your university. Okay. So autonomy, people must look at it. Autonomy is not does not just speak to maybe they can make money for themselves and don't require government money, like in that statement. It also speaks to curriculum, what they can teach, how they can teach. It also speaks to who they can employ, what grade of the lectures or faculty they can employ, how they can attract quality talents to their universities. What kind of people can they admit into their universities. So autonomy is not just about infrastructure or universities being able to make money for themselves. That's the full chain of what autonomy means. All right. We heard that the federal government, before we even go to that, just want to quote some words from one of the officials from the universities, who is saying that quote, this is a chairperson of ASU, the academic staffing of universities at the Federal University of Technology, Mila, Professor Bolao Bolaari. He's quoted that by the puncher saying quote, they, that's federal government, they don't understand what they are talking about. They need to come outside and explain what the money is for. They want to pivot autonomy for universities. How he's asking, they need to come out and explain what is going on. So Nigerians will be aware of the whole process. So it's clear that as you are saying, even the academics themselves already complaining, they do not know what is going on. They don't understand what this means. Yeah, because if they raise money for 514, 514 what? At what phase? At what level? What are you pivoting? Are you pivoting infrastructure? Are you pivoting their salaries? Are you pivoting their ability to develop curriculum? At what point? You don't know. But what are your thoughts on the, I mean, two weeks ago, we, there were reports that federal government was to begin payment of salary raised for members of Conor, the Congress of University, Nigerian University academics, which is a parallel body, you want to call it that, or the second labor union for, for university academics in the country. What are your thoughts on that? Even though Conor has come out to plead with federal government to also consider their colleagues in ASU, ASU and Samoa kicking against it, what do you think about that, that move, if it materializes? Most of these conversations is just the complexity that comes with union management and negotiation and conflict management. Okay. First of all, this union you just mentioned was seemingly just given a certificate to, to function. I don't know why, maybe to check the other union, okay, or, you know, but they are all lecturers of our universities. Whether they are Conor, whether they are ASU, they are all lecturers in our universities. They are all an important part of our educational system. And you see this unionism concept, whether we see its advantages or disadvantages, it's costing a lot of harm to our education. I listened to a very, very interesting interview the other day when the man was saying, I think education should be moved to our exclusive list. Well, yes, where striking itself can be a crime, or not even funding education can be a crime. We need to move it to that level. Okay, so even if it's Conor, it's our educational system. These people have families, they teach in our schools, they lecture our students, okay. I'm not completely absorbing certain things because I believe that in conflict management, it's always important to have different shifts, okay. But the federal government are the designers of the system that the one who hold the carot, that the one who hold the stick, that the ones who hold the lines, that's why it seems like we're giving all the, not blames, but it looks like we're talking to them directly, because they're the ones that hold the strings of some sort, okay. They can, the house, the Senate, the house of reps, they need to start to look at our educational system, what's in the bill that needs to be adjusted, okay, because we just talk about salaries of these people. Well, the house of reps, they did their bit, which is to get asked to call off the strike, but you know what they say, they say the rest is history, so let's not go into it. No, because the house of reps can't ask to call off the strike. We need to go now, we need to go, fingers crossed, let's see how all of this pans out, whether or not, but it's quite interesting conversation and great insight you've brought this morning on the show. We do appreciate your time so much, thank you. Thank you, thank you for having me. All right, so we've been speaking with Olu Dari Akinlaja, he's a founder of Yadavastu, CEO and D company right here in Lagos, thank you so much, how do I go about that correctly, Kofi? Yeah, what else we're trying to do? Because you asked me about six times. No, you know, it wasn't even that, I mean, because we go back to looking at the dictionary meaning of this word or, you know, some kind of meaning, it's not very, very explicit, you know, so it feels like it's semantic. Yes, but while we're trying to understand it, you know, students are leaving the country in droves, so to look for education in other countries, even if they can get been in a republic, they'll go. Apart from students leaving the country, it feels like almost every other person is leaving the country. I won't be surprised when you wake up and you probably be telling me that, hey, you know, you know why we're reading, we're reading the story on national social media, there's another saying, doctors are leaving, I was saying, journalists are also leaving as well. I haven't seen, you know, we're a marginalized group, you know, we don't report on ourselves. Are journalists leaving? Journalists need to start reporting on themselves. But are journalists really leaving? Because I haven't seen. Well, you'll be shocked that journalists are leaving. Okay, but let's also not forget that in February, there's also a plan. We're an impacted group. We'll have a conversation about that. We're being told to move right down. That's for the want of time. Thank you so much for being part of the show. We will definitely return tomorrow with more interesting lineup and we hope that you join us tomorrow. But in the meantime, we'll join the newsroom at 9 o'clock for the news brief. If you missed that on any part of the conversation, it would be great to follow us on our social media platforms. Absolutely. Yeah, Plus TV Africa on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, also on Plus TV Africa lifestyle on YouTube. My name is Kofi Bartel, so we'll continue our conversation with a cup of coffee off the set, but you have yourself a great day. I am Messi Boko, have a fantastic morning.