 So I'm David Brown and I'm going to talk about Andrew Jackson and the American populist tradition I'd like to thank the National Archives for sponsoring this. They've got a terrific series and What a great opportunity to talk about American history and I'd also like to thank you for tuning in YouTubing and viewing so what I want to do is begin by talking a little bit about Andrew Jackson and Approaches to him how people have generations have come to recognize Interpret and reinterpret Jackson over a period of time So I'll begin I suppose at the beginning which is when Jackson became a public commodity in the American consciousness And this would be in 1815 with the Battle of New Orleans. Of course, this came a little bit after the peace treaty Turned the war of 1812 had been signed But of course Americans didn't know that the time so they took Jackson's victory as some terrific signal victory It demonstrated the capacity of the United States to survive in a world that was not filled with republics But rather with empires and kings and queens So Jackson's popularity it begins there. I should say however that not everybody was so Thrilled about this So John Quincy Adams who was was was very excited about Jackson's victory in 1815. He came back Years later to look upon that and see that it was a victory that had multiple meanings And as he would say it and not all of them particularly positive So here's a quote from John Quincy Adams Seniors after the Battle of New Orleans. He calls Jackson's success a victory more complete over the people of the United States than the soldiers of Great Britain. And so there Quincy Adams is focusing a little bit upon Jackson as a populist Jackson who who would would rise the presidency would defeat John Quincy Adams for that position in the 1828 election and how did this come about and for Quincy Adams it wasn't because Jackson was a brilliant administrator or particularly capable statesman It's simply because of the shock of his mass popularity So this interpretation Jackson is here. That's always going to be there It's always going to be you know the like motif of of his of his popularity and of his of his legacy Of particularly the 19th century, but there are other aspects as well So I'll fast forward a little bit to the you know the the idea of Jackson's being a nationalist And this was really a feature of actions his actions in the 1830s During his first term as President States with the nullification crisis This was a situation in which the state of South Carolina was not eager to continue paying a federal tariff They argued that the federal tariff it was Unconstitutional and that it aided northern manufacturing not southern A cotton southern production and so they said that they would refuse at a period of time to to pay this tariff Jackson moved against South Carolina Jackson had a carrot a stick and approach The carrot was the promise of a reduced tariff over time and the stick is what became known as the force bill In which Jackson said that he would if necessary Bring the army in and force South Carolina to comply with federal law to comply with the Constitution Jackson wrote this at the time about the force bill I'm confidently advised that the nullifiers of the South seeking to nullify federal law have corrupted both the naval officers And those of the army and Charleston, but they knowlies are determined to push matters to extremities And so with this force bill Jackson has isolated South Carolina and he has convinced South Carolina that it must a seat it must comply with federal law But they're agree with that law or not Jackson said that secession was was not an option Jackson said that he did not recognize Secession that would destroy the country So a new Jackson who is not a particular favorite of people like John Quincy Adams as I mentioned earlier or really New England Went on a goodwill tour of New England after the nullification crisis was put to a Peaceful end He did so because he said that he wanted to see all the states It would not be the first presidential tour Monroe had taken one and washington had taken one but Jackson's felt comfortable now with the reputation of a nationalist of going up to up to new england and and Going with reputation not just of being a hero But someone who had protected if you want to put it that way with an industry by recognizing the legality of the tariff I should add that Abraham Lincoln was quite willing to use this Exercise to um to further his his own notions of what the american republic should be like And so in his first inaugural which should place in march of 1861 at that point in time I believe southern southern southern states had already seceded from the union and and Lincoln in effect referred to Jackson He says, you know, we cannot recognize the session I do not recognize this that secession is not constitutional and it is not legal and he falls back upon Something that's not new but in effect a presidential position that had already been advanced by Andrew Jackson So in effect Jackson is both the hero and the nationalist Now if we fast forward To the 1930s Jackson becomes also of all things he becomes a new dealer If this has to do with the bank war so in the 1830s Jackson had moved against the second national bank of the united states Which he insisted was unconstitutional and played favorites Um helped to to advance the fortunes of southern american citizens But but but most those who were taxed to pay for the second national bank Could probably not be able to ever get a loan from that bank. The bank was not a mom and pop bank It was for large-scale infrastructure those looking to build down roads industry the catamized Transportation networks and so on And so Jackson says that that this is something that's not provided for explicitly in the constitution And when this bank united states comes up for a recharter, uh, he vetoes it So in the 1930s a century later Arthur Sessions Jr. A young historian who is living through the new deal He meditates about this experience And he thinks about Jackson in the 1830s And he writes a Pulitzer prize winning book came out 1945 the age of Jackson And he said in effect that the circumstances a century apart were very close to one another that we had an iconic present in the 1830s Jackson an iconic present in the 1930s f dr both were concerned about economic unfairness and justice in the country And he argued that that Jackson had had struck against the national bank in the name of the producers of the country the working people And he said in effect F dr had had done the same thing There's also the irony that Jackson was not a quote-unquote humble man. Uh, he was part of the Tennessee squoyarchy The quasi aristocracy And of course f dr came from a google patrician dutch family So it was said of f dr that he had he was an enemy of his class by passing these bills Getting these bills passed in the new deal which in effects, you know raised taxes on wealthy people So Arthur Sessions Jr. In writing about the the age of Jackson Was in some ways writing really about the age of the new deal And employing Jackson as a symbol of that age so whether it was Lincoln with Jackson the nationalist or f dr and slush and sure seeing Jackson as a kind of photo new dealer Jackson has been Used by various constituencies for various reasons um Typically grounded in some historical accuracy But but not always as clean as we are precise as we might expect So By the late 20th century by 1960s Jackson's reputation is evolving. It's changing again And in the day of the long civil rights movements Jackson's reputation takes a distinct downturn. He's not alone. Uh, thomas jefferson has experienced this as well What we focus on In this iteration is Jackson the slave owner Jackson owned three plantations in three states um held at the time of his death 150 enslaved men women and children And we also focus on Indian removal Indian removal is a process that um, uh, uh, really um preceded Jackson and it extended beyond Jackson's presidency as well But Jackson becomes in the late 20th century I think really the strongest symbol of it because he is so closely um Correlated to the Indian removal program of the 1830s Um, and I think that that's that's largely accurate. Um Jackson is chief architect of what becomes the trail of tears trauma I believe other presidents would have enacted Perhaps similar legislation or proposed it if they could have And if they believed that the country possessed the power to carry it through That power was not in effects until the 1830s um This is controversial not just today But in its own time and we should keep that in mind When the house of representatives passed through the the the bill supporting removal um It was I believe one or two in favor 97 opposed So just a handful of votes, um made the difference This legislation did not give the federal government the power to remove the native americans It gave the the the government the power to propose treaties and to Buy up properties And then um place um those native american People's willing to uproot Into the west in other words to trade territory in the east for territory in the west This is pretty much how jackson sold the program that it would be voluntary However, um, it really was was obviously much different than that So here's jackson on how he is selling Indian removal He says before congress this immigration should be voluntary For it would be as cruel as unjust to compel Uh, the aborigines to abandon the graves of their fathers and seek a home in a distant land Which obviously is what comes to pass Um to promote its uh to help get the bill pushed through the language's Voluntarism um and not force, but of course, uh, we know that that turned out much much differently So in advocating Indian removal And um and focusing also on jackson's role As a part of the plantocracy that is the planter class elite Jackson's reputation has gone from 1930s as jackson the new dealer to to jackson the advocate of southern interests The two slavery and Indian removal they do linked together. They do cohere In that what what we see with Indian removal is the um the banishment of roughly 60,000 um self governing native peoples And uh, they're being removed From a territory which was largely a free labor free soil and and and taken Across the um, Mississippi river they will be replaced Uh in large parts by a um a planter elite This will become a considerably proficient area Of cotton cultivation so much so that it goes by the name of the cotton belt or the black belt um a region that um really helps to Define the economic livelihood and the contours Um, not just of millions of people but also of entire region This would be the deep south and it's not When secession comes in 1860 in 1861 It's not really the south at the seeds um because there there are border states that remain in the union And there are four southern states which wait until after Violence has occurred that is after fort sumpter has been fired upon Before those states will join the confederacy the states that get in first are those deep southern states And those are some of the primaries where Indian removal took place So hero nationalist new dealer and southern these have all been jackson's identities What I do in the book that I wrote the biography is look at jackson as a populist So, uh jackson's somebody with many identities and I think that there's certainly room in there to fit populist In populism, I think it's something that that jackson obviously he doesn't invent He embodies it for a period of time in american history Um, but but there's a long history of it. So First of all, I guess I should define what I mean by populism or populist tradition and It's to my mind a reaction to elites These elites could be political elites cultural elites or economic elites It's the notion that the people have some type of of rights of inherent notion of What should happen that that they Identified being presumably the majority they should have the great say in what's a republic what a democracy does So the difference between I think jackson and those people who came before Is that that jackson is pushed by culture that is moving increasingly the direction away from deference and towards democracy So to give you a quick sense of that transition, I'll read you a quote. This comes from philip hone Um, hone was no jackson in he did not like andre jackson He was first a federalist and then a wig in his politics And he was um for a period of time the mayor of new york city And so he's reflecting upon jackson's popularity jackson took a goodwill tour and New york went crazy for a new jackson and hone is watching this and he's thinking about it And he writes this the president referring to jackson is certainly the most popular man we have ever known Washington was not so much His acts were popular because old descriptions of men were ready to acknowledge him as the father of his country But he was superior to the homage of the populace too dignified too grave for the liking And then could not approach him with familiarity Here referring to jackson as a man that suits them exactly In other words jackson had that gift He was the national hero. Uh, he looked resplendent in a uniform on a white horse there was a quality about him though that Was approachable to people Um, he was not the distant washington. He was not the abstract jefferson. He was someone who perhaps Spoke like the common people He was someone who perhaps had the same sympathies as the common people And so he is embraced as as one of their own um someone who has been elevated by dense of a um prolific public career And is a national hero, but yet is is reachable understands the needs of the people That gets in some sense. I think to the secret jackson's Jackson's popularity There are other reasons as well, of course So let me put jackson in some type of an historical line here And let me begin by saying just a few words about she's rebellion So this occurred in the 1780s actually just a few months before the constitutional convention in philadelphia I would I would I would call this A populist uprising It was regional. It was Farmers in western massachusetts being opposed to critical of the um, uh The mercantile class the banking class the political class In eastern massachusetts The state had a significant post-revolutionary war debt and it was looking to Pay down that debt the taxes felt disproportionately high on people in the west These farmers were losing their homes. They were losing their lands. They were losing their barns And they protested they were about um, daniel shea's uh was a civil excuse me was an american revolutionary officer And he will become in some sense the leader of this rebel army Which reached upwards of about 2000 soldiers and was defeated Scattered at the battle of springfield moving towards an arsenal at springfield and and and put down by an army composed largely of um Of um privateers paid for by wealthy Wealthy people in massachusetts and in other new england states um because one could not at that time call in the federal army and the in massachusetts, um militia was a little bit uncertain because Much of the militia was in the west and was supporting rebellion And so what we have here is an east west debtor versus creditor Farmers versus bankers and merchants Struggle and we'll see this thought american history and what makes it, uh, I think a A candidate for for populism is the idea that the people are struggling That the people have been kind of cornered economically and politically by elites and and they're simply Seeking they're seeking justice Well, I would put jackson and the jackson era after that This is what used to be called. I think uh, not so much These days as the age of the common man The age of the common man I think that in some sense It works from from the standpoint that what it succeeds is a dynastic form of politics Let's say jackson's the seventh president and Five of the previous presidents were from virginia ergo the The title the virginia dynasty. Okay the notion that Only a certain kind of of educated Elite personality could be could be a president of the united states The two presidents were for jackson who weren't from virginia were from massachusetts Of course adams one and adams two And they represented in some sense those certainly, you know, uh, you know private citizens, but they were they were elite personages They they were they were educated that they were professionals. They were um, uh, they were national heroes And andrew jackson Sort of embodied something a little bit different The the quotation from hone. I think taps into that a bit And also, you know, we should mention that that that jackson will be the first president Not to come from virginia not to come from massachusetts But uh, he will he will represent the west And so it's the replacement of dynastic politics with virginians to Presumably a more open and democratic system of electing our national leaders So if we follow this populist line along Um, I next go to the 1890s and look at the look at the populist party. Okay. This was a strong party in the south and in the west uh, particularly the plain states and Not unlike shea's rebind. This was very much An east west affair. It was not unlike shea's rebind. It was also about money of financial resources This was at the silver war and money was scarce and farmers in the south and in the plain states Wanted there to be an expansion of the money supply There were gold strikes Excuse me silver strikes in the west and they made the arguments that by inflating the economy Moving away from the gold standard To buy metal gold and silver economy. It would help debtors get out of their debt There was opposition to this On wall street in the midwest and on the east coast populism found its champion in william jennings brian Jennings brian was a democrat that he was embraced by populists and he ran for the presidency three times number one Single race, but um in 1896 He took more took a higher percentage of the popular votes than grover cleveland had four years earlier when grover cleveland Won the presidency brian said um At a convention that in part here referring to this urban agrarian split in america You come referring to the urban centers You come to us and you tell us that the great cities are in favor of the gold standard We reply that the great cities rust upon our broad and fertile prairies Burn down your cities and leave our farms and your cities will spring up as if by magic But destroy our farms and grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country So in the gold versus silver crusade of the late 19th century, this was populism Revising an old animosity A regional animosity between debtors and creditors Financial elites and those who view themselves as producers who are on the short end of the economic stick So um a couple of more examples here in the 1980s we have um Reaganism, uh, and uh, this was about among other things the idea that the american economy was being uh strangled with excessive regulation that come out of the new deal system And uh, Reagan famously said uh in 1981 at his first inaugural Government is not the solution to our problem government is the problem from time to time We've been tempted to believe that society's become too complex to be managed by self-rule That government by an elite group is superior to government for by and of the people There's a bit of a populistic tone or ring to that sentiment. It's the idea that's intellectuals FDR's brain trust for example um John F. Kennedy's the best and the brightest They think that they know too much, but but the common people they can they can govern themselves. They know what's best I would say most recently We've seen examples on both the political left and the political right of populism. For example Bernie Sanders from time to time. He sounds to me very much like William Jennings Bryan In his opposition his criticism to um to the financial Nexus that we have in the country The top end of that nexus I should say so um in 2019 Sanders said, uh, there'll be no real change in this country Unless we have the courage to take on wall street, which is essentially what brine was saying in the 1890s on the political right Donald trump, uh, also in 2019 Uh, making an appeal to uh white working class constituencies said in grand rapids, michigan They say they're the elites But we got more money. We got more brains. We got more better houses and apartments You're the elites We're the elites in other words, you know, sort of, you know framing america Uh in a kind of a of an us versus them scenario It could be debtors and creditors um, it could be Uh, the best the brightest versus the common man um, but it's the idea of of popular Control and will popular control went out or will elites dominate the country? That's the line that I see andrew jackson Blowing in he belongs in other lines as well. Um, he's one of a few chief executives to have have been a general and um, uh, and the president he of course is is one of Several two-term democrats to be presidents. Um, but other ways, uh, you know, he um, uh, he's a bit of a singular character um More ecumenically though, he does stand, I think in this line of populist leaders So at this point, I should probably say a few words about what makes jackson a populist So, uh, I'll begin with um, 1819 uh Jackson is um, uh affected like many americans were by a financial downturn that year. It was called the panic of 1819 Panic, um, today we would consider that a plight euphemism for perhaps deep recession or even depression What's occurring in 1819 is really going on in other parts of the world, not just the united states There is a general global readjustment to markets After the new planet conflicts, okay, and so this will take some time to work its way through There were however problems in america that were specific to america Um, western lands were opening up and there was probably excessive um, um Speculations in western lands. In other words, people were looking to buy up the lands not just to go there and live But to buy up thousands and thousands of acres and and speculate Hope to sell it for more than what you've purchased it for um, so this creates a bubble a land bubble um Pushing this bubble on is uh, is also the fact that you um, uh, you had the issuance of paper money and pretty large quantities Um unrestrained for the most part you have mom and pot banks That make their their their their profits by doing this and you had very little oversight From the second national bank of the united states The second national bank had gone into existence in 1816 And this really three years later was its first big Chore its first big crisis and it really didn't do a very good job at a time and it probably should have been um Working to limit the amount of paper money going into the economy It didn't do that. Um, it allowed the bubble to keep growing When this bubble bursts Uh, there was no soft landing. There was a very hard landing Imparts because the bank begins to um curtail loans and this is going to contract the money supply One critic of this, um, uh, of the bank's actions at this time said, um, uh, well the bank was saved But the people were essentially destroyed Uh, obviously, uh, sardonic comment, um tongue in sheep but wicked and it got to the truth of things And so, um The the panic of 1819 it creates a situation Uh, where Andrew Jackson will in the future look at the second national bank with a very critical eye It wasn't the only reason why he decided to move against the bank But probably played some role in his animosity towards the institution And also more broadly speaking We've been talking about regalism here not unlike Shays rebellion This panic of 1819 while it was fairly widespread Uh, it it did tend to create difficulties Uh in the west where there was far less infrastructure and less financial resources And so this would be a western audience that would look at the panic of 1819 and um and see it as parts perhaps Of an eastern system. Uh, that was aimed against it I think a second component of Jackson's populism is the fact that um, it was a westerner He wasn't born in the west. He was born probably in um in south carolina Certainly in the wax hall region the border between north and south carolina But he will as a young man make his way west I mentioned um ronald reagan a couple of minutes ago Reagan was born in the midwest and regan goes to california And when reagan has his political career As governor and then later president it's during a period in which midwesterners were not being elected at the presidency But but sunbelters were I think between 1964 with johnson up to the second bush in 2004 Uh with his reelection. I think every chief executive elected was from a sunbelt states um, be it uh, georgia arkansas california florida, texas I mentioned that because uh Regionals and plays a role here plays a role with andrew jackson Reagan symbolizes in some sense a larger cultural movement Economic movement and therefore political movement to the sunbelt Jackson will represent a movement Out of the east and into the west Which will really take hold after the savor when most of our presence will be midwesterners But jackson will become um the first chief executive to um to really make his career west of the appellations Between 1803 and 1821 There were eight states brought into the union Every one of them accepting man was a southern or western state That's an electorate in the south and west that will go for jackson Jackson could have been a great hero and run for the presidency in 1804 or 1812 And and he probably would not have won that western constituency wasn't there But it is there in 1828 so, uh Jackson doesn't run for the presidency first in 1828. He runs for the presidency in 1824 um for the first time And I think that that also is a um Something that makes him really a populist candidate uh the 1824 election was Uh An interesting election in that nobody really said that they belonged to political parties They were all sort of conceiving them conceiving of themselves as a generic jeffersonian candidate um The idea of parties seemed to have dissipated if not died off with a collapse of the fiddlest party after the war of 1812 So jen in 1824 Really it's a politics of region You have john quinzians from new england You have um william crawford from georgia in the deep south You have henry clay in kentucky Uh a southern state but also western state one of clay's um Mcnames was harry of the west And they have jackson not unlike clay a southerner, but also a westerner all nominally jeffersonians um Four major candidates that means that no one is likely to win A majority of the electoral college Which the constitution tells us is what a candidate needs to win Which is precisely what happened jackson won a um Plurality the votes in the electoral college and the popular votes But he did not win a majority the election goes to the house of representatives Jacksonians say that they have a moral right to this office that the people have spoken And the election in fact goes to john quinzians So this becomes the rallying cry of jacksonian populism The people spoke but the election was stolen from the people by a corrupt cabal of Of eastern financial and political Interests when jackson does become president's in 1829 One can make the argument that he does operate as a populist Definitely so if we think of populism in 1820s and 1830s as being anti-establishment in its orientation Um anti-establishment in regard to seeing what transpired in 1824 1825 and regarding eastern politics And eastern financial elites as being corrupt and there needs to be A destabilization of the process there needs to be a new political class that comes before this populistic political class So when I say that jackson was in some sense an anti-establishment politician What I mean is that's he among other things He used the veto power more than any other chief executive before him. In fact Jackson was the seventh president He'd take the other six and they did not use the veto combined as many times as did jackson Jackson used the veto a total of 12 ponds Nobody would reach that figure again until andrew johnson Uh in the uh milling 1860s, of course, he exceeded quite a bit I think the record is f dr cut over 600 vetoes At this point in our history we're back down to lower numbers Bush two and obama. I believe both had 12 presidential vetoes by jackson Trump had 10 at this point in his presidency just about halfway through This term. I don't think joe biden has any presidential vetoes 12 that was considered a pretty high number in jackson's day. And um, uh, and this was seen as some type of am emblem that that jackson was in disagreement with Establishment institutions like for example National banks which he would he would veto out of existence There's also jackson Uh in in his relationship with his cabinet There was a tremendous amount of churn in jackson's cabinet There were four secretaries of state. There were five secretaries of the treasury There was just a lot of turnover Jackson preferred to To go to his informal cabinet, which was known cloakly as his kitchen cabinet This was also a cabinet's informal or not of shifting personalities And it caught the eye of critics. So Jackson he vetoes the second national bank united states It's understood that his kitchen cabinet was was was largely in favor of this and One commentator at the time wrote this The language of the veto message In relation to the bank united states is disgraceful to the president And humiliating to every american it smells of the kitchen What the commentator probably doesn't recognize though is that most americans Probably didn't have parlors So this wasn't a parlor politics of jefferson, right? This wasn't montage. Hello. This wasn't this wasn't washington's place at mount verney But most americans did have kitchens. They know what kitchens were they spent a lot of time in their kitchens And if jackson has a kitchen cabinet That must mean that jackson is In touch with the american people In a way that parlor politicians were not I mentioned this bank war. Um, I should also say a little bit about them jackson's Jackson's efforts to destroy the bank Um, this wasn't just the veto power. Um, but this was jackson's determination To To keep the bank From entering the political process Once the veto had been levied the veto came down in 1832. The bank's charter didn't actually Extinguish expired until 1836 Jackson learned to ensure that the bank didn't have resources that it could for example Used to purchase the votes of politicians or newspaper editors to get a favorable Reversal of the veto to have congress on board never write that veto So what jackson did was he began to Um, not remove bank deposits. That's sometimes what it's called the removal policy But rather just not put government money into the national banking system In every month when the government's bills came due He would Take the money out to the national bank. Um, and so money would be going out, but money would not be going in The problem with this is that the bank had a contract with the federal government The bank was supposed to receive this money So jackson said i don't want that to happen and jackson sought out Banks that could take in this money. They were known as pet banks derogatory term Jackson went to a secretary of The treasury Let loose mclean and said i would like to follow this program mclean said I can't do this. It's against the law. We have a contract with this national bank They are due this money Jackson like mclean Jackson Gently nudge mclean into another position mclean was replaced by another secretary of the treasury man by the name of duane Dwayne refused to do what jackson asked and and he was fired It was roger tawney The author primarily author of jackson's bank veto message Who in fact was was brought in As a term letter appointment to to head the treasury Acting director and and to get it through and and that's what tawney does This was so controversial That the senate lacking the power to initiate an impeachment trial process In fact censored jackson jackson remains to this day the only president of history to receive a senate from the us Senate I should also mention that jackson Is probably one of only two People in this country to have inspired Political parties to rise up in opposition to them I think the first is alexandra hamilton whose financial programs in the early 1790s Were deemed to be so controversial first by madison Then by Jefferson and then by the new yorkers who they allied with that they created the democratic republican party Generically later known as the jeffersonian party. So jeffersonian federalism versus Excuse me jeffersonian democracy versus hamiltonian federalism Jackson His opposition is going to be the wig party The wigs take their name from english politics. The wigs being the liberal party There in oversight of the aristocracy the crown So american wigs were careful in calling themselves wigs because they want to accent the notion that andrew jackson was in fact Operating as as a king. He was king andrew the first and so they will Create a party It'll become a national party and they will operate for a period of roughly about 20 years in opposition first to jackson And then to his successors They weren't a terribly successful political party But they did manage to win a few congressional majorities and two presidential elections The irony here is that it begins as an anti jackson party But the two chief executives who were elected Were in some sense pocket jacksons. What I mean by that is the wigs Learned that they had to play a populistic game if they wanted to get The presidential candidates elected. So the two wigs who did become president William Henry Harrison and Zachary Taylor they were both Like jackson military heroes harrison the um the war of 1812 and and taylor The mexican american war in the 1840s And so even when wigory is trying to distance itself from Disassociate itself from what jackson populism stands for they still realize that In 19th century america one must play the political game I'd also note that jackson had other forms of opposition Which were unique to him and unique to that time So jackson for example in 1833 As chief executive he suffered an assault His nose was grabbed and and we think flooded Jackson was on his way to furtick maryland. There was a ceremony there offering excuse me honoring George washington's wife martha washington Jackson was going to be there And he was on a on his own boat and a man came up to jackson jackson was sitting and the man Began to take his glove off Jackson first his hand out and said no need to take off your glove Thinking the male is going to shake his hand and the man grabbed and tweaked his nose um He got away to uh, there wasn't a lot of security at that time john quincy adams Are reflected upon that having read about it in the newspaper And he wrote a presence of the united states pulled by the nose Is new incidents in the history of this country And as he himself has confidence personal loans against members of congress Jackson will not need with much sympathy. So john quincy adams dry briny no false um, you know statements coming from his his uh, his perspective and point of view Was um, was it was very interesting the notion that jackson who was a great hater He knew could inspire great hate and others was now seeing in some sense the effect of that in a very personal way So less than two years later in early 1835 Jackson was also the first chief executive to um to be targeted for assassination this came from a house painter in washington dc english born and A gentleman suffering from mental instability Jackson is leaving a funeral in the capital building the man comes out and Pulls am a gun on him But it won't fire correctly Has a second pistol and fires, but there's a misfire with that as well The guns were later tested and they worked, but they didn't work at that moment. So jackson is able to evade assassination It did seem to contemporize them at the time that there was some morbid Um Fitting this and in jackson being the only chief executive to be targeted for assassination Because his presidency was in fact so disruptive. It was so anti establishment and it put people Not necessarily supporters, but it put many people on edge. They wondered about the future of the country They wondered about there being future jacksons to follow this and do jackson Let me give um, let me give one more example of jackson being a An anti-establishment figure and when he enters the presidency He calls for reform His word reform and what he meant by that was that there must be rotation of office One could take the high road jackson does in his inaugural dress and says that this is the people's government And every american show the opportunity to serve their government that no one should look at government work As something that they should do for their career. They should want to serve and and then leave um, but he was also reflecting upon His bitter defeats in the 1824 election and the notion that it was a corrupt financial and political bureaucracy Cheated the people from their champion in 1824 therefore, uh, he would see that that that there was a rotation that The people who would be in office would not be these encrusted political elites But they would be people who presumably would be more loyal to As he would see it the people but jackson being the The symbol of the people that they would also be loyal to jackson So on the high end, uh, he would portray Rotation of office as merely political reform To his critics and his political opponents. They would look at um, a rotation of office as being Nothing more than an opportunity for jackson to in fact build up his party Into put people loyal to him in in office jackson's immediate I should say not immediate, but jackson's um, one of jackson's uh predecessors in the presidency james monroe had worked carefully with jackson um In the 18 teens in early 1820s when jackson was in the military and when jackson was briefly governor of the territory of florida They got to know each other fairly well. It was largely an epistolary relationship. Uh, they wrote letters to each other Um, and so they knew each other and they felt comfortable with each other um And when jackson begins to announce this policy of reform and removal Uh, monroe took it a little bit personally In that he said, you know, I read your message and it makes the suggestion That's that there's been corruption In governments and for eight years I was the head of that government and I didn't see this corruption that you refer to In fact, monroe says, um, you know, uh, certain individuals such as you enter jackson did quite well under my administration and so monroe wants to um, have his voice on record here, uh, he wants to um, he wants to To clear his administration of any wrongdoing and he believed that jackson had perhaps gone a little bit too far In making the arguments, uh, at least the suggestion that previous presidential administrations Had been partisan and therefore to an extent, uh, corrupt Well, what does that leave us with jackson today? Uh, in my book, uh, I refer to jackson at least in presidential politics As the first populace. Um, we've seen iterations of populism since then Uh, including american presidential politics and, uh, we've we've we've We've had these discussions probably, um, off and on for the last, you know, four or five or six years Um, where it leaves us with andrew jackson is an interesting question Um, what do we think about populism? Um, that's a way of asking. What do we think about andrew jackson? One way to approach this is to look at polls presidential polls To be sure, uh, sometimes, uh, imprecise if not dubious science There's always the top three Lincoln, uh, and then Washington and fdr not always in that order And then there's some culprits at the very bottom. Um, james bucanon seems to always be Last or pretty close to last And then there are people like andrew jackson Um, who are particularly interesting because they fluctuate Um, sometimes they're higher and sometimes they're lower and the question is Does that say more about them their presidencies or about us and, um, contemporary culture So looking at a recent, uh, sienna poll presidential poll jackson docked in at, uh, at 23 And i think biden is 46. So jackson is pretty much right in the middle um That raises the question What do we mean in these presidential polls? And i'm not sure if it's something that we've ever really clarified um, do we mean Popularity or do we mean consequence? Because if it's popularity Then one can see jackson's popularity has declined over the last, um, 30 40 years or so On the other hand if we're talking about consequence, um, that would seem like like like jackson Must rank higher than 23rd where he sits between wean mckinley and jimmy carter because the presidency Was consequential under him Um Indian removal was consequential the bank war nullification These were consequential jackson's Populism as a symbol for common man democracy That was consequential consequence and popularity These uh, these are different things And so when we think about jackson, we consider his presidency. We consider we replace him in our history um We need to be very precise about What we're talking about and how we want to approach him In this book, I approach jackson as a populist So with that, uh, i'll close. Um, I'll thank once more You for viewing um, and for the national archives for putting on Such a great series of books and authors. Thank you very much