 My name is Shana Kemp and I'm the Executive Editor of DataVersity. We would like to thank you for joining June's Installments of the DataVersity Webinar Series, Real World Data Governance with Bob Siner. Today we'll be discussing the Data Governance Roadshow from DGIQ, our Data Governance and Information Quality Conference, and Bob is going to be interviewing the thought leaders from the conference today. Just a couple of points to get us started due to the large number of people that attend these sessions. You will be using this during the webinar. For questions, we will be collecting them via the Q&A section in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. Or if you'd like to tweet, we encourage you to share highlights or questions via Twitter using hashtag RWDG, Real World Data Governance. As always, we will send a follow-up email within two business days containing links to the slides, the recording of this session, and any additional information requested throughout the webinar. Now, I'd like to introduce our sponsor for today, ASG, and Ian Rollins is going to give us a quick little talk about ASG, and then we'll get to the webinar started. Ian, hello, and welcome. Hi, Janet. Thanks. First, I'd like to say actually how flaky I am to be in such distinguished companies this morning. It's actually kind of a privilege for ASG to sponsor this kind of thing. I'm going to cheat a bit today, too, and share something that we're very excited about. Sit next to me around this kind of sit-around table this morning. Dan Christians from Calibra, and ASG in Calibra took the opportunity of the show to announce a relationship that we've formed to integrate our technologies so that we can combine Calibra's uppercase governance with ASG's technology that I think of as kind of a lowercase, very detailed, functional governance capabilities. There's some logic behind that that I'd like to talk about a bit in terms of what that reflects about our understanding of what's happening in data governance at the moment. So I slide to advance, which hopefully is what I just used those terms, uppercase and lowercase governance. And I have to say that this follows out from a sense I have that the governance discipline is still really being defined. So it's an odd notion. I was making a presentation yesterday here at the event, and I kind of threw out the question to the people I was talking to about how long we really thought data governance had been a discipline. And nobody was really able to make a case for it going back further than about 2000. So here we are with the discipline that's maybe 10, 15 years old at best, and it's really not surprising that it's still in a lot of ways in the process of being defined. Some of the things that really come to the fore in my mind is the notion that you can think of two parts or two layers to governance. One I'm starting to call uppercase governance, which is a framework in which governance roles and actions and rules are defined and implemented by implemented. This is the place where you keep track of issues. This is where you manage your metrics. This is the point of communication, if you like, between IT and business and the management. And then there is what I think of as lowercase governance, which is the mechanisms by which data is organized and processed for the identification and remediation of governance anomalies. So that's things like data profiling and data quality and master management and all of those things tied together by the enterprise metadata repository. And one of the things that's been absent really in the industry so far is any kind of linkage between that concept of uppercase and lowercase governance. So we want ASG and Calibra are putting together as we integrate our technologies, is exactly that linkage between uppercase and lowercase governance. So that's the thing that's going on. I think the governance discipline is still being defined and ASG is committed to putting an active part in that, helping to build an ecosystem, if you like. And that flows from a sense that NOAA really has a one-size-fits-all, universal solution to all the problems and solution to all the peace parts of governance. And so we see multiple players bringing value to the table and part of what we think our job as the glue is is to kind of tie together all of those shambles that are leaning over my shoulder, which makes me feel that you're not seeing my slide. So this is the first time that we've done this, just by the way. So this is the first live session, at least that I've been involved in. So what you've missed were my snappy definitions of uppercase governance and fear not, because we will be sharing these slides afterwards, so you don't need to worry that you haven't got them. The next thing I want to kind of touch on is a sense that data governance is changing in scope. And really this is happening as that focus on uppercase governance is becoming more prominent. And I really think of this as a timeline when we started doing governance stuff. It really was very much about fixing fairly low granularity. It wasn't really getting into all of the extreme detail of how data flowed and interacted. And it was also very much a technical focus. The interesting thing to me is that two kinds of things are going on. There's a shift from a technical focus to a business focus or an integrated technical and business focus. But there's also a desire to get a much deeper level of granularity or higher level of granularity, which is kind of emphasizing, in a way, the technical aspect of the whole thing. And so we see this increasing dichotomy between upper and lower case and an increasing need to somehow bridge that gap. That's what we see as a very oversimplistic view of how the technical challenges, if you like, of governance are changing over a special period of time. So from a technology point of view, the way that Kaliber and ASG are seeing this, absolutely need an uppercase governance control center because there has to be that communication control center where with technical people can communicate the issues and status and the value of governance to the business organization and to those that are paying for it. And at the same time, there absolutely needs to be that lower case, very detailed governance made to support the time everything together. And frankly, we'll be extending this too as we reach out to incorporate this lower case governance tools of the nature of data quality and data profiling and things like that. And you can kind of see me here trailing something else which is in the works but isn't quite cooked yet, so I can't quite talk about it. But let's say I'm very excited about that too. So I've kind of had my ten minutes in the sun as it were as a vendor sponsor representative. I want to turn this back over to Bob now and we'll get into the panel discussion when I'll just become one of the selected participants. Thank you very much everybody for attending this session as always. The session as Shannon had shared with us is interviews with thought leaders. We thought we would do this live at the conference rather than the third Thursday of the month. It's the third one today. And we appreciate your dialing in at this time. So I wanted to share with you a couple of things before we get started here. And we'll talk a little bit about the upcoming webinars that we have. They're not showing on my screen. Are they able to see them? I'm going to talk about them. I'm sorry to share with you. The upcoming webinars in the next couple of months are going to be in July. We're going to talk about government data. In August we're going to talk about Good Data Governance to Great Data Governance which is a presentation I gave at the Enterprise Data World Conference just a few weeks ago here in San Diego. We're going to talk in September about governing customer data and is there a difference between governing customer data and any other types of data within our organization? In October, managing governance metadata for mass consumption in November, governing data data, we can talk about data governance from what we've done in the past and everybody's used to hearing live from New York in Saturday night. Well, this is live from San Diego. It's Wednesday morning. So again, glad to have you with us. And with this illustrious panel that we have here with us, we're going to walk real quickly with these colleagues when he's trying to do things differently. So just bear with us one quick second. So there's going to be an abstract for this session. I'm just asking people to come and join us and listen to these great, this great group of people that I have brought together to talk about primarily about what's next in this great Ian Rollins from ASG. So he can, instead of reading, we'll tell you that ASG is glad to have him here, one of who Ian just spoke about. He's the co-founder and operational director at Cleveland Systems. He's a principal consultant with Alabama A&E Systems. And he's one of my good friends, Danette McGilvery from Grand Falls Consulting. So again, thank you all for being here with me today. I've got a lot of slides to go through in this presentation. Just kind of a list of the topics that we're going to talk about. And it's really easy. I think you guys are sitting in the order that always makes things easier for the presenter. First thing that I want to do is I'm going to start with you, Ian, because we just kind of look off with you last. People are getting, you and other people are receiving from this event of over 400 people, I understand. Yeah, over 100 people. And that's actually a really good starting point. And that's a primary value in itself. The ability to talk to so many people who are dealing with roughly the same issues that we're all dealing with. A lot of different angles, a lot of different ways of looking at things, but at least you're talking about people that are interested in the same things. Other things that I'm noticing, and I don't want to be too controversial, but there's a couple of demographic points that I'm noticing. Used to be this was a very IT focused activity. I think I'm seeing about 50-50 business IT participation here at the moment. Yesterday in my session I did a little poll and it was kind of scary because all the IT people were sitting on the left-hand side of the room and all the business people were sitting on the right-hand side of the room and I couldn't decide if that was a left-brain, right-brain sort of thing. And this is where I might pull in a note of controversy. Although it's exactly reflected in the room that I'm in today is a lot of the IT and technically related conferences that I go to. And I have to say that speaking as an old male chauvinist pig, I think that's a terribly healthy thing. It's really good to see that. The other thing that I'm seeing, a lot of what people were talking about was what is data governance and why should we be doing it? Most people seem to be past that now. There's still a lot of discussion about what is data governance, but it's a more in-depth discussion. And the focus is not so much on why, but on how. How should we be pulling this off? And I've seen several interesting proposals for frameworks, and I think that we will start to see the emergence of a standardized industry framework for data governance. And I think that's really cool. That's your sense? Okay, very good. Well, I said the left-brain, right-brain, left-room, right-room, and this kind of reminds me of the K-Stances where it's got one side girls. On the other side, hopefully, we're kind of going to be bringing someone together, bringing the technical and the business people together quite a bit. I see a lot of that happening at this conference. So I'm going to ask the same question and what are your impressions of the conference? So far, what are you learning? What are you seeing other people learning? What are you sharing with people? Well, thank you, Bob. And a lot of the points Ian is making, I actually agree with. So the business IT participation, you see that definitely. You see people from the business accompanied with their architects. That's a very important trend because IT actually has to learn, in some cases, how they can support the business and their business challenges better. That's a very important point for IT, for the direction of IT, where they have to go and how they have to focus on the business. Ian mentioned it in his slide deck, the focus of data governance going business-wise, going more granularly. So that I definitely recognize. Second, more women. I can only agree. It's something that I've always seen and there's only good things to say about that. Third point that Ian was making was the maturity. I definitely agree with that. We've been in this space for a long time. Data governance is what we are, is what we breathe. And we've been seeing the same trend from what data governance to how we're actually supposed to do it and that we're doing it, we have these problems. So how can we convince management? How should we focus on metrics, for example? So you see people are actually being challenged with showing how it works, what's being done. People actually management expects things to be done. They expect to be able to see results and to be measured. And that's definitely a good thing. The last thing I can say is that the interest in technology, you could say, you've got to try to know people's process and technology. You can definitely say that the interest in technology is growing. So people, because of the fact that they need to do things, need to show things, that combination of people, process and technology has definitely established themselves. Thanks, Dan. I appreciate your answer. Dan, I'm going to hit you with the same exact question. What are you learning from the conference? What are you seeing? What changes have you seen even over the years? So first of all, Bob, thanks for inviting me to participate in this. I really appreciate that. And sharing with such a great panel of colleagues here. So one of the things I'm liking about the conference here is I am seeing a range of people whereas I agree that we have more maturity in the field itself. One thing I'm really liking is we have people who are here at this conference who have programs that are seven, eight years old and they're still coming and they're sharing their knowledge and they're still coming to learn. There are also people here that this is their very first time coming to the conference. They are just starting and they are learning. And what pleases me is that we have this combination because as a field, as an industry, as a profession, this whole idea of the data quality and the government's piece, that's how we continue to do continuous improvement. We preach continuous improvement and I think that we're actually modeling the behavior that we're trying to put forth in our companies and I'm really liking that kind of interaction and how we can help each other continue to grow. So that's something that's really struck me. Thank you. Okay, all right, good. And Marie, we're going to continue with the same exact question. What are you seeing? What are you seeing changing? I know you've been involved in a lot of these events. Share with us your feedback. Well, I'm going to echo what all my colleagues have said. First, thank you for letting me do part of this. God, this sounds like a repetition. Second, it hasn't been involved in the first conference where it was very small, very focused on how do we define data governance? Is there a definition we can even apply to this practice? And would anybody care for now where we have an excess of 400 people? As Inet just pointed out, the variety from people who have been coming for seven, eight years to people that I just met this morning who didn't know that data governance was even a practice until two months ago. That variety is truly exciting because it shows the growth potential of not only the practice, but of all the data management because we can help people grow not just in data governance and in information quality, but in the other areas. The convergence of master data management as an enabler for data governance and information quality and for both data governance and information quality to support things such as data warehousing and business intelligence and the other aspects of data management that have a part in the governance are all here at this conference in one way, shape, or form now where we couldn't have that at the first conference. And then there's an audience that variety as well as the depth are all things that strike me here and that I hope to see in the future as well. It's not surprising to me that there's a lot of consistency between the answers that people have given to that question about what are they seeing and it is amazing how the conference has grown. I think to Inet's point and to Ea's point and to everybody's point basically, when you see a conference like this and you wonder whether or not there's a whole lot to get out of it I think it kind of answers the question for these data governance that when you go to these events you're going to meet that wide spectrum of people. You're going to be able, if you're a beginner and you want to connect to other beginners, they're there. If there are new people that you want to talk to that have been established in the programs and what's going to happen next, those people are there. The vendors are here. The people that are going to be presentations and their types of... I encourage you to attend these events. They continue to grow. I would guess that next year's event would be probably a little bit bigger than this one because they continue to grow. Just like the webinar audiences have continued to grow. Once you start bringing something out there that people are finding interesting, it's great to have all of you participate. All right, let's move on to the next question and I'm going to start with Stan. Are you ready for this one? Always, Bob. Let me take a stab at that, Bob. Thanks. This conference represents the strong connection between data governance and data quality. We've always been a data governance company. We've always seen that there are different areas of entry. You've got people who start metadata. You've got people who start out of MBM. You've got people who start out of data quality. There are other areas as well such as BI. What we've identified over the years is that the trend of the combination between data governance and data quality has been constant. It's been high. People who do data governance often have data quality challenges and the other way around. The two sort of go hand in hand. I think that will continue, but it will expand. MBM and data governance will continue to get closer together. Although I would say that the MBM vendors are, let's say, not doing their part in making sure that data governance is clearly defined, rather it becomes obfuscated in marketing messages oftentimes. We've done around this as we've always executed on this kind of different entry points. Witness of that is our recent announcement with Trillium. Another witness of that is very moment on this very day is the fact that here in ASG and now from Colibra are here to represent another part of the technology world and the lines that we see, the direction that we see going. How will it continue? I don't know. I think in the same way that it's been going. The dimensions that I explained, can I see slow and steady continuation of this? This is not a market where you see a big hype cycle and everybody jumping on the bandwagon. This is a slow and steady market. Just like data governance or stewardship project, which needs slow and steady progress and Marie mentioned earlier, continuous improvement. How many of these projects go? Try to shortcut it in any way. It's not going to work. Danette, I know that you're heavily involved in both the data governance and the information quality industries and have involvement with several different types of organization. What are your impressions of the industry, where it's come from, where it is now, what we can expect even in the next short period of time? I might say the answer to the question on what's next for our question number four. That's okay. What I am seeing is great interest across all industries. I think this continues to gain visibility. It continues to gain importance. Of course, it's going to. I think that the more people understand that there are fundamental things that happen in not just our businesses but in our lives. Being able to drop the election results. You know what is a data quality issue? Who gets to count the votes? How are we going to do it? How are we going to bring them together? How do we train the people who are watching over the ballot boxes? This is all about information life cycle. It's all about governance. It's all about quality. What's exciting to me is that the more people, and these are people who know nothing about data, they don't even think about data in their life, the more they become aware of information. They become aware of data. They become aware of some of these principles that information has a life cycle and there are things that we need to make decisions about and we need to coordinate on that and things we need to take care of. Once you learn these things, you cannot see them again. You see them everywhere in your life. I mean, if you're in Las Vegas, I must not walk into a casino. Not that I'm a big gambler. My $20 that I allow myself to gamble goes pretty fast. Yeah, I'm a big vendor. You know, watch out for me, right? But I walk in there and what I'm seeing is how is that money flowing? How's the information about that flowing? How are people making decisions about what's happening on the floor? So I cannot not see that anymore. But the beauty of this is when there are people who are not data people who see that and they can start to understand that what we bring to the plate actually really, really makes a difference to them. And as I said, from elections to, you know, if you go on entertainment and you're gambling, to the very, very important things we do from our business, from healthcare, from government, government, I should say government. We've got too many of those. Government. So that is the part that I see really that we have an opportunity, not just where there are companies now, but in every aspect of our life to seriously, I think profoundly affect things that are going on in the world around us. And I think that's very exciting to me. And along the lines of what you were talking about, the impression that I'm getting here and you're hearing almost every one of the speakers talk about it is organizations, government organizations, organizations in all sorts of industries are really starting to view data as an asset. And we've been, us in the data management industry for all these years, we've been talking about data as an asset for years. And it's just now I think that people are starting that senior management and that executives and organizations that are creating CDO positions and things like that are really starting to view data as an asset, kind of the thing that I heard you say, and then turn it over to Henry and that's your impressions of the industries, where they are, where they're going. Falling around the table is possibly the exception of stand. I've been in this business for quite some time because I've been friends with you all for quite some time. There's a lot of room for maturity. We all know that. What I've been seeing is that as we mature in this field, seeing that businesses are beginning to recognize finally that data does have value. But there are also people asking for people to assist them in the development of governance activities who are not traditionally associated with anything in data management. A lot of organizations are asking people such as business analysts to perform a lot of activities that we practitioners in data governance and information quality would traditionally as our purpose. And I see that becoming more of a trend. I have also an opportunity for us in the field to bring these business analysts into our field and teach them the right ways to do things. So it's not the right way to do things wrong, which means we have to go back and correct them later. It's a big field. That's a big opportunity, I see. Because we have capability that a lot of companies are trying to do things possibly the right way, but with fewer resources. Since a lot of business analysts are our own staff, we recognize now the fact that data might be valuable as an asset. As Donets said, they have started to come to the realization that data might be actually useful to them in making decisions. Business analysts into more valuable quantities for commodities for data oriented activities is something that I see as an opportunity for us to get more involved with. Anything else to share? I think we're struggling with the balance in certain areas of data management. Where sometimes people wonder where the opportunity for governance activities stops and information quality starts. We have to work more on teaching people what things are coefficient oriented. I'm bridging the gap. I kind of want to allude to that Donets had given a keynote presentation yesterday. I'm bridging the gap. I've followed myself using it. If you're interested, you guys out there in listener land are interested in seeing copies of the presentation or those types of things. I think there's ways through data diversity. You get copies of all the presentations from this wonderful event, including the wonderful keynote presentation from yesterday. I don't know exactly how to do that, but certainly contact Shannon and see if there's ways to be able to do that. You're up. You're the last one. I'm going to come from where are we going? Where are we from? Where are we now and where are we going? I'm only one who's beginning to get the sense of Bob as the garrison keeler of data governance. Cultural reference for those of you who listened to the Steam Radio a lot. The second thing is, did Anne Marie just say a lot of people around this table had been doing this for a long time and were therefore old but needed to get some maturity? I don't know. I just think I heard that. What are my impressions of the industries in general and where they're going and all those good things? Let me talk first about what I think of as the industries. I think of the industries as the collective of those of us who have technologies, those of us who are day-to-day involved in actually getting stuff done, and those of us who are involved in framing and trying to identify processes and methods and methodologies. I think we are a collective and it's a good thing if we're aware of that. As to where this is going, excitement and some fear. My excitement is about the fact that data governance properly applied enables businesses and other enterprises to be much more flexible and agile in the way that they do the things that they do. Let's work hard at getting people to understand that data governance is not about restricting people's ability to do things but enabling their ability to be successful with information but putting in place the proper boundaries. What we have is that we are an immature discipline. We are developing rapidly. We're developing in a context in which all the world is watching and if we are not careful, we may be over-regulated to death before we have the opportunity to be truly successful in making businesses what they could be. I'm a little concerned, as it were, from a social aspect of what might happen if we are not very concerned and very sensitive about what our activities do to the whole variety of stakeholders that can be affected by that following in the casino or out in the theme parks or as we walk around. We really need to be very sensitive to all of that. Otherwise, maybe our industry has some challenging times ahead. I have a couple off-topic statements to say. First of all, I know the name Garrison Keeler but I don't know who it is. I share with people who know who is Garrison Keeler and how the heck am I like Garrison Keeler? How can you not be aware of the lugubrious poet prophet of the late world begun? We need to take you on one side and work on your graph. We'll do that later. I mean, very quickly after this session, Google who he is, somebody responded, Bob is Garrison Keeler, that's hilarious. Somehow it's still making a connection with me. Another thing that you said, I think is really, really relevant is that people think of governance as being something that's going to get in the way rather than being in a neighbor. So governance, people view government as being restrictive and all of those types of things. If that's the approach that you take to governance in your organization, that's the way that you sell it into your organization. That's what people's impressions are going to be. So if you take that and you've got to kind of tame that whole idea, that's why people hear me talk about non-invasive data governance. If we feel like it's invasive, it's going to interfere with what they're doing, then they're not going to want to participate. But if we can convince them that to some degree this is already taking place and we've got tools and techniques that are improving quality, improving the way that we manage the data, I think that's a good direction that the industry will take. So hopefully, people will get over the fact that they think that governance is like government. I'm going to go to the next question here real quickly. I'm going to start with you, Jeanette, if that's okay. I'm not sure if that was my original order or not, but maybe you can share with us some information. There's a lot of people that are not at the conference. But everybody's out there. What are the ways that they can get involved in the industry, things that they can do to expand their boundaries about information quality, about data governance? You know, share with us your impressions on that. Well, of course, with the social media, there's ways to get involved online, reading the blogs, being involved in Twitter, et cetera. Reading Garrison Keefer? Yeah, absolutely. For anyone who knows me, this answer will not surprise them, but I think what we do a lot about is we have to make the connections between people. So if the way you connect with someone is through Twitter, that's great. If you connect through reading blogs, well, you know, take it a step further and get in contact with the person who wrote the blog. I am all about showing up, which is why I really love the conferences and I really appreciate, like, Dataversity and Depth Tech and those people who create these venues for interaction. That's what governance does for people in a company. That's what these kinds of companies do for us. They create a place where we get to come together. And when people make the connection, that's when things really happen. So I'm all about showing up. Be there. Be there. Show up. Do the same thing at your company. Get online. I think you'll get some good references by the books. Keep up. There are a lot of new books coming out in our field right now. John Ladley's got his Enterprise Information Management. He had his data governance book last year. My book has been out for a little while, but people are still finding useful. Laura, what's the name of your book today? Executing Data Quality Project. I can't accept quality data and trusted information. Laura Sebastian Coleman has a new book. That talks about measuring and monitoring data on an ongoing basis. So it really goes into some detail about that aspect of data quality that people think are important. So there's a lot of good information that is coming out there. The more books that we have that supplement the kind of social media conversation that's going on, those are really good references for people that they can go back to time and again. As they're building their program. Okay. I guess the risk that I took by asking this question is that one person could cover everything. The first person I asked the question to could cover the whole answer. Ann Marie, is there anything that you can add to that? We know data diversity. I'm going to do a quick plug here for T. Dan. You should go up to T. Dan. There's been articles out there for 17 years. Every article since day one. Some of them may be a little bit outdated because things change. People spot problems. I don't mind that. Processes change dramatically over the years, but there's a lot of resources out there. Ann Marie, I don't know if you were going to talk a lot about T. Dan, but I had to kind of throw that plug out there. There's a lot of information to be had. Ann Marie? I'm not going to mention T. Dan because I thought that Bob might want to mention T. Dan, although he happens to be the editor and publisher. But the data administration newsletter is a great resource. And thanks to Bob for developing that idea 17 years ago. It was the first online journal for practitioners in the field of data management. And that's kind of about showing up. It is so important because there's only a way to learn interaction. And I think that's really important to learn interaction. And I'm going to make a point of suggesting that people reach out and look for DAMA organization that provides excellent educational resources. The annual conference run very ably by friends at Dataversity Literature Conferences at Data World is a larger version of this conference. And local DAMA chapters are a great source of very personalized education. So I invite practitioners and most of the people around this table have spoken remotely at DAMA chapters worldwide. The internet said showing up, meeting people who have done what you're doing, sharing expectations, sharing successes, sharing failures is so important. And reading about what has been successful and thinking about challenges is also just as important. If you read something that someone wrote that resonates with you, as Dinette said, contact a person. Who knows what they have found out since you read what they wrote. You might discover an even broader reason than you could ever have imagined. And they might have learned from you. The people that you contact are very interested in learning from you, but don't only just reach out to them if you agree with something. Reach out to them if you disagree with something. I can't tell you how many times that has started a dialogue with myself and somebody else because they didn't agree. The one thing I wanted to add to this is that it's not just DAMA. DAMA is a fantastic organization. As she said, the EDW conference and the diversity is very heavily involved in that with DAMA. There's also organizations like IAIDQ. There's other types of organizations. There's blogs and websites and things that you can go to to cause some of these conversations to happen. Without that, Ian, if I'm not taking your thunder here. I wanted to take this a bit in another direction because so far we've sort of talked about expanding your boundaries and getting involved in the industry of data governance. But I want to talk about expanding your boundaries inside your own organization and getting involved in data governance. There's a lot of people that get pigeonholed either in their IT functions or their business functions. We have a great contribution to make in the business of governance as it were as well as the governance of business. I think it's incredibly useful sometimes just to kind of go talk to somebody inside your own organization that you might not normally talk to about data issues and maybe try and figure out if there are some internal collaborations and some internal channels that you might build almost an internal collective to address the issues of the ways information and data are affecting what you do. So that's kind of making it very personal on applying it to yourself as well as getting involved in the big wide world. And I sort of agree that you should be involved in these industry bodies and you should be creating all the good stuff that folks at this table have put together like other things. That's what keeps us fabulous and happy. So you know, you can read our books, buy our books and read our blogs and things like that. But you need in the end to be applying it to your own daily activities. Otherwise it's kind of just actual exercise and not practical value. Very good. Stay where you have to at to all this great information. Okay. There's a lot of information out there and because of the fact that there's a lot of information out there, sometimes it gets confusing and overwhelming for people, especially if you're just getting started. I can't count the number of times that I've given an explanation to somebody or an introduction on what we do and they actually said, well, we're not just getting started or we're not mature enough for this. I think in that sense there's a bit of because of the overload of information, some people get scared also because I feel we're not at the right level of maturity and then that causes inaction. So if anything I could recommend at this point in time, data governance, we talked about it earlier, is in a niche action and don't let yourself be scared by the maturity level you have. Actually, get about maturity levels. Inaction, make progress, show results and then you can, whatever your entry point is, there's a lot of information out there so pick one. Pick one. That's what I would say. It's interesting just to build on what you said and maybe this is what Garrison does. I don't know. Yeah. To build on what you said. I'm working on a client right now that's talking about the business process improvement, data quality improvement, data governance, technology, following an FDLC a little bit closer and all of those types of things and they're being hit from all sides as to all these different disciplines. I actually have one of the individuals that I met with that a client recently call it noise. I think it might hold true for the information that's out there about data governance but it's out there. It's out there for you to find so all you really need to do is search for it and with that I'm going to move on to the last topic that I have on the list of topics and since we only have a couple minutes and I have received a couple questions that I want to address at the end of the session as well but I want to talk about what's next for the field to be a government and a little bit in the last, two questions ago basically of where are we coming from? Where are we now? Where are we going? Industry even as Ann Marie alluded to earlier on this conference was small. We were reminding the industry back then. Now people want to know how to make this active, make this work for them and if you take advantage of all those resources we just talked about and that's something that you can do but Ann Marie I'm going to hit you first with this question. What's next for the field to be a government? I might be. We've got to go, we've got to be a little bit quicker. Yes, I like being first. Okay, two minutes. More business involvement. I see more involvement by the business. That's what's next. Okay maybe elaborate quickly. Oh quick collaboration. The activities in the business are going to drive the majority of data governance and information quality. As business demands a rapid understanding of their view of data governance and the view of information quality are going to be required to be more mature to provide those results to the business to meet the business goals so the business is going to get more involved in meeting those needs of data quality and data governance. Have you ever been in evolution of that already? To a certain extent yes in certain clients. Yes I have. Very cool. Danette I know you're chomping at the bit to answer this question. I mean it's a really important question. So where do you see the industry go? What's next for the field of data governance? So we're just going to list a few things real quickly we won't be able to go into depth but really have this vision for data quality and governance that at some point in time people would never it would right now think of it this way people would never say you don't need an accountant to run my part of my company you mean I need a controller you mean I need a CEO oh you mean I need somebody to manage my human resources you mean an HR department nobody questions that they know that that's just part of what is needed to run their organization my vision is that at some point in time we are going to be just like that of course we need data professionals of course we need governance of course we need quality of course we take care of our metadata it will never be a question it's just of course we understand that that's my long-term vision that it just becomes such a part of the fabric I see in order to get there there's a couple of things coming up that I think are really important for us that you can consider in your list of things to do out there that are listening whether this is a priority for you in order to get people to grasp governance and quality I think we as data professionals need to become more versed ourselves in organizational change management and if you need to bring people in to help you through that because everything we do with governance and quality triggers change and people are resistant to change so how do we deal with that? So I think the better we are at that the better it will become part of the fabric of our organization but I think we need help in learning how to do that because that's not part of our data background I think the other really quickly is getting data governance and quality integrated into your SDLC your projects have a big impact on your data that is one of the big prevention activities that you can do and there will be some information that Shannon sends out I have an article along with my co-author Masha Bison that we work for Cutter Consortium that talks about data quality and governance in projects there's another book coming out by Larissa Moss later this year about how to do that in a more agile environment so I think those are two big things that we can do I'm sorry one other thing internationally you know what all of our colleagues across the world I've been doing courses and talking to people in the Middle East and Italy most recently South Africa Brazil Australia guess what their questions, comments everything is the same I was joking yesterday that we may get to world peace because data people are actually the ones across the world we can talk to each other if we had that impact on the world it would be real world data governance I thought you and I would be building governance in the SDLC I always talk about things in terms of proactive data governance and reactive data governance proactive data governance is building it into what we do doesn't mean that you need to redefine the SDLC you probably have one you probably already have other processes in your organization for information security information quality your SDLC those types of things and to get the type of statement in the approach the idea is to apply governance to these things rather than defining these things from scratch because it's really unnecessary so I think we're going to see more of that happening in organizations in fact I even joke to the point that you don't even know what you do and you don't even think about it in terms of being a data governance activity you want a data governance game you should have a data governance game show I think that would be a great one in the future you win the data governance game if all of a sudden it just becomes second nature to your organization people know who to talk to and when to talk to them and when to get them involved in those types of things so stay to the next step what's next for the field of data governance I agree of course with many of the points that were already made I'd like to add a few so with respect to what the net said this is true so business as usual this is the case data there's ever more data there's ever more complex data it's ever more needed in being competitive building out new products etc etc so organizations who want to succeed in the future and lead will actually have to consider this as business as usual and we see it in our client base people are actually taking this perspective make business as usual nobody questions the fact that owners and stewards need to be there it's just a given just like for us as a software company there's a few business processes that you run you do product management you do sales and marketing you do R&D and support it's natural so there's a large organization dealing with data data products you do data governance you do data quality it's a given if you don't do it you will get behind it other people will get in front of you so the next point that we are not there yet it's very much true currently we're being faced with early companies early adopters who understand this understand this vision not just by the data people themselves who get it they know what is right but also by their executives who get this same vision and decide to act on that so if they decide to act on that we as data people as data stewards need to be ready so we need to be ready to roll up our sleeves and take action and show progress so there's a time of conferencing management good flight and it's the right thing to do is over because they understand that it's the right thing to do because they understand that their business needs it to be competitive they understand that something needs to be done and they want it done so what we have to do is do it so I think two more points that I want to add there in the near future for data governance as a message to the audience it's very simple roll up your sleeves and second the governance it's don't call it you're governing the data governance it's data governance is about people that interact with the data it's about making people do the right thing with data keep that in mind and just roll up your sleeves very good and I guess we're kind of right where we started from and big sensitive to time let me address this very quickly I want to add a one word answer it's consolidation disciplines are too fragmented at the moment we talk about too many different things we talk about data governance data management data profiling data quality master data management metadata management there's a whole lot more that could be thrown in there we need to consolidate the discipline it really in the end is all about the same thing and in the same sense we need to consolidate the number of tools and technologies and techniques it's too complicated people shouldn't have to learn half a dozen different tools and technologies to do data governance very good one more thing I want to say and I'm going to get to two questions really quickly first of all I want to thank you for sponsoring the webinar I also wanted to mention a research paper through the university that ASG also sponsored that I wrote a friend of mine Charlie Rowe out on the west coast and it's called Navigating the Data Governance Landscapes and it's actually that's the name of it that's the name of it but it's really focusing on a survey that we did for organizations on how they're getting started with data governance it's a fascinating fascinating paper and all attendees get a free copy and all of these of the session of the there you go so you're going to be receiving the Navigating the Data Governance Landscapes so we've got a couple minutes just very few minutes left but I'm going to address some of the questions that we received one question that we received and I'm just going to throw it out there to whoever wants to answer hopefully you guys will answer because then I won't have to but what kind of books and training do you recommend for business people who want to learn more about data governance and how it communicated to both senior leaders and people in the field? This is Anne-Marie I started with the Data Governance Chapter in the Damon's Inbox it's written for business professionals at the start the Data Governance Chapter is definitely a good business overview of data governance one of the reviewers to that chapter is our moderator today Bob from a perspective I think it does give a good overview for business professionals there are a couple other books for more in-depth treatments of the Data Governance one of them is the Data Governance Imperative by Steve Sarsfield and another is John Ladly's book on Data Governance for real practitioners of Data Governance I would not recommend that for business people a book that's Sunil Sores who spoke at this event as well it was called Information Governance for the Executives or something like that I forgot about this take a look out there if you need information about that book look it up under Sunil Sores his last name is A-R-E-S but I'm sure there's some good information anybody else want to address this question about field management and how we get them to understand go ahead I was going to say just once you get you get the books with the information look in your company some of the best success I had is when I had all my data words and it content and I went and talked to some marketing folks and people who really had to put a message together and they could distill that message into their words and that was some of the most successful presentations I had is because I got somebody who was expert in that field and put it in their view and it's been great okay great idea actually I think I'm with Stan on this it's Nike time just do it the best way to convince senior executives is with results I've got a couple of things to add so Sunil's book is called Selling Information Governance to the Business that was one that was the next question what were the names of the last two books yeah so that's the book you talked about was a source field these source fields the data governance imperative okay so hoping that you guys out there got that after this webinar let's put together a bibliography the Shannon I'll send it out to Ali so that is definitely a good book to help you promote it internally all the books you've mentioned all the thought leaders out there you can find them on dataversity there's a lot of good books out there to tell you how to do it I sort of disagree with the rest of the panel members at this point in terms of what books you should give to the executives so I didn't say but no read them okay I'm going to put my own thing forward so if you look at a data company everybody knows and which has a lot of potential at Google you know the data is there blood now there's a book out there by the chief economist who is at Google some of them that's Carl Shapiro and Hal Varian information a strategic guide to the network economy that's actually a strategic executive level book that shows how a product as an asset is fundamentally different from any material product or asset in the fact the production is more expensive but the covering and distribution of it is completely different so executives I would recommend that book so I think we've used all of our time here maybe even an extra minute or two we it's not surprising given the group of people we have in the room here to discuss the last subject I hope you all got a lot out of it thank you again for attending the real-world data governance webinar and I hope that you will attend next month's webinar which will be on the third Thursday of the month it's going to be governance for master data Shannon anything else? yeah I will just reiterate that I will get a collection of everybody on all the reference material and resources and I will include that in the follow up Friday and also a big thanks to everyone here Bob thank you for another great presentation and to our esteemed panelists it was a great conversation and of course T.E.N. and HASG for sponsoring the webinar in addition to the webinar sponsorship ASG has sponsored two papers that will send out to all the attendees for sending a one-white paper called using metadata as well as the data governance research paper that Bob just mentioned so we'll get that out to all the attendees as well and thanks for attending again hope everyone has a great day and we will see you next month thank you very much bye