 Yeah, we on boss talk one-on-one. Yeah, we gonna talk. We're gonna have fun. We'll be on fire. We'll be lately It's a unique husband. Check it. Check it. Check it. It's a unique house. It's your boy E ceo And I'm with the lovely amazing official miss Jamaica. What's going on? None none, you know, my dad will go on want y'all stop what you doing right now go like subscribe follow us on all social media platforms But most definitely our YouTube channel, okay? But only way you can become a member from your cell phone on our YouTube membership is just go under Any one of our interviews in a description section. There is a link you click that link Takes you straight to where you can sign up to be a member Thank you in advance and thank you for showing us love because we're gonna keep doing this content every single day to give You what you love man. Hey, man. Listen, man. We got a special guest in here today. Y'all He really don't need no introduction. Hey dirty sofas. What it's about who y'all got in here. Who y'all got man? Stop playing man. Where's he? Listen, man. Oh Southside holding right now man. What's going on man? Man? Just blessed by the best is happy to be in your presence Man, thank you so much man Appreciate y'all being here and having us on man. Just ready to represent man. Hey, man It always go down on boss talk one-on-one. What a boss is talk man. Let's get into his business a little bit That's a little bit. So born and raised Houston, Texas. Yeah, so My mom and dad my dad's from St. Martinsville, Louisiana. Oh, my mom is from Liberty, Texas. Okay. I always tell people I'm co-cajun My mama's white. My dad is Cajun. Oh, you know, yeah first-generation Texan Born and raised Southside Houston, Texas right there on West Belford and Hillcroft went to Westbury high school And basically, you know left my footprint right there What was it like growing up there as a young kid and how many siblings do you have? I know you have a brother, but so I have two older brothers one is estranged the other one is basically We make one good person his name is Bernard and he wanted to make it up here so bad But we had some real estate business back in H town to handle. So he's telling that right now So I have one other brother that Basically has been my babysitter my manager Everything all wrapped in one. We've been business partners ever since, you know, we were hustling cars How far apart in age so we're four years apart four years. Yeah, my mom says she only had sex three times That was it. She also told her boys no girls all boys. She also told everybody if I was the first child I'd been the only child You that bad? Well, you know, when you have two kids by the time you get to the third one It's like I'm just gonna let that one do whatever he wants to do like he wants caffeine and coffee in his bottle I give him a Coffee bottle if he wants it and I remember being on three or four years old and I had a coca-cola bottle and I had a Coffee bottle with sugar and cream I was probably running a thousand miles an hour running around playing my little hot wheels But uh, yeah, so, you know the thing is that I think parents do you have kids? I don't I've had a lot of practice, but nobody would actually let me do that to them yet No, I think Once we get older We just have a lot more tolerance compared to our first first one You don't have no tolerance and by time you get to the third one. You're like, uh, it doesn't bother you no more Well, there's a lot of pressure on that first one, right? You got to set the example. You know my oldest brother Uh, he graduated summa cum laude 4.0. Wow. I was the first Terrio to bring home a D. I was so proud of it. I was like, I got a D. I'm like, no dummy. It doesn't that's not good no He went to higher grade. Oh, I thought I was being special Yeah, wow man. So you you you something else man like when I look at you and all the the culture that you got in You man, H town is all around y'all. It's in you man. It got to be in you. It can't just be on you man So well, that's what you know, uh screw It wasn't just a form of music, right? It was something you immersed yourself in fully It was a full body experience, you know jamming that slowed melodic music And you know, whether if you like being sober or or inebriated or whatever Uh, you really felt the music it was slowed down to a you know a melodic waltz if you would you know You know, especially with the chopping and the popping and it was just something that When you heard it either you loved it or you hated it How did you end up even right, you know the dj screwed? I mean just that whole Movement, how did you end up even in the midst of it and embracing it? So what there was this place called southwest wholesale? Yeah for show and they were right in our backyard. Okay, so Uh, you know, I was with a group called thugs of another kind. It was me and two other white guys How old were you? Um, this was right when I was 18. Okay, and I wanted to say we were going to be the nwa White guys, but really you can't be nwa and be three white guys Suburbs like what are you gonna be mad at like mom didn't give me my allowance this week bro Like I can't go get my shoes, but no on you know on the real So we put out that one album and that album didn't do well commercially But we were able to sell 5 000 units out of the trunk of our car Wow, which led us to know that hail isn't if you hustle you can make money on those And so at that time we were blessed to follow kiki on tour, but who introduced me to screw was hawk Okay, I had met hawk and after You know the idea of the country rap tune came about Our first instant reaction was well. We got to get pimp see and bun b on Wow, but at that time they had just got off a big pimping And you know mama men row she was all about her business and her babies were getting 25 apiece And that was just wasn't in my budget at that time I would more than happy if sold everything I had just to you know get them on a bar, you know, whatever right? But at the time it just wasn't in our budget and so, you know We respected mama men row and pimp and bun and the obvious next choice was hawk He just had that country draw he he spoke country. He talked country. He walked country And so when we got big hawk on the song He introduced me to basically everybody in the club like pokey and dj screw and everybody And so that's how the country rap tune ended up coming about. It was basically because of hawk So country rap tune, you know, you heard pimp see say that was did he say it before you guys or after you got So he's the one that and dr. Nay did the whole thing. This is his thing, right? I just got the blessing All right, that was it, you know, I had a long Long, you know Sessions with pimp learning how to produce learning music theory from pimp C Which is mind-blowing, you know, here this guy was so talented at his craft He studied other greats like he would tell me about the Beatles and how they would Do a you know a a hook and then a short verse eight bars and then another hook and then another short verse He's like toe down. Don't do 16s no more. You need to do 12s and eight to bring back that hook back in And this was a guy that this was my run dmc. You know, my brother grew up on run dmc I grew up on u gk Well, it's it's crazy that you say that because we just had bun on and bun said that when they did the The get throat he only let he only prepared For 12 bars when jz wrapped it makes sense when you say that and then you look back at the big pimpin Pimp see only did eight bars on that song He so what you're saying lines up with exactly what he told you and if you are in the industry at the time And you got to hear the bun b verse before pimp got on it Bun b actually had a longer verse on there if i'm not mistaken And I think jz went back and he added the pamela andis and lee and all that after the bun verse, right? Okay, kind of you go back and I have to put another verse on this now It's just it's just too much and then when pimp see came on the song. It was just a rap pimp pimp pimp was the character and bun was the uh Of vocalist the rapper. I'll put money on bun b today against any rapper out there Like bun is my guy when it comes you put him against jz all day long. Oh wipe him off the floor You put him again Wait a minute. You know that you know that not even close. How do you feel? Okay, so jz Okay, hold me. You got $25,000 all day and you and you got to bet your money on jz Or bun b going into this booth to do a new creative song today Who do you put that 20 bun all day? Why you got to explain that to me? So we had one of the first all digital studios in houston. This is circa 2000 2001 Uh bun blessed me by doing an e 40 record at my studio, which gave me one of my first gold records Okay, I've seen bun Go wrap a verse that he was featured on the other guys that already laid their verses After they hear bun. Hey man erase that I need to go rewrite this multiple times wow multiple times The way that bun is able to articulate his vocabulary and words was just unseen and unprecedented back then and still today What would you say about um scarface? A lot of people say that he's one of the best so Scarface I hold in a different light. I hold him as a founding father, right where bun b was more of my uh, I don't want to say my peer because he's not, you know, we're not that close, but Uh, he was a lot closer to me than the scarface music that I had grown up on, you know Scarface When you talk about Texas rap Scarface is at the top on almost everybody's list, but when I'm talking about just plain lyricists Time and time again Consistency consistent bun. I can't really make that argument with you because I'm so texas like I don't I don't know man. Uh scarface is is a he a storyteller bun is a lyricist So you you're right. They they do rap two different types of rap, but Face hard to me. Don't get me wrong. Mary's hard to Mary Jane is still on my playlist to this day, right? No doubt, but you go listen to outcast tough guy Where he talks about called Tommy I'm the I'm the messiah Just the way he flips that pattern and that cadence the whole thing Just I'll put that verse against anybody's verse. Like he's one of the coldest MCs out there Man, I agree. I agree when it come to bun b man, like I said, I grew up on that. I'm a p.m. C That's my greatest all time And it don't matter about what you do If he come in that room to rap with you when p.m. C was doing it And he he's gonna it's gonna be something he's gonna do that's gonna steal the show every time and listen Did you hear what I just said? He you know, you may do whatever just like when he pulled up with the mink with jayna He's gonna always steal the show TV ain't got no temperature But yeah, he's gonna always say so so I definitely I'm p.m. C no matter And I'll still argue with somebody today that Atlanta's not the south because it's on east coast time Oh, you really go there. I go there because I support pimp. I support bun. It's what we do You know, it might be a little cuckoo, but he had a logic to it You're like when you get off the plane. What time is it different time zone? What time is east coast? Oh, there you go. Right. It was just one of those things that that's crazy It was just what pimp did is what pimp and pimp taught so much He was like, you know, you got he was talking about females at the time. He was like stop right right quick Let me just say this he say we all know Atlanta is the south. He did say that so you can't just stop right there You know, he knew that because he's how you still live in Atlanta So when you think about it, he really just trying to do what it takes to whip you in shape The biggest thing that I got out of that when he was having that argument was the fact of How people don't tell about the bad side They always tell about you know the money and they were celebrating so much back then everything was about the movement of the money They didn't tell about when you got busted And your mama had to go to that prison and all that because we know about Well, bun did say put everything in your mama's name. Put your cars in your crib and your mama now he did He didn't tell you and listen that was a blueprint for my brother and myself, you know, we we really got an education from His exposure to the street life and it was that it was that blueprint, you know And that was one of the things why we even started hustling and being in music in the first place It was because of ugk like the first studio we recorded out of was uh, Bernie and shatiro in missouri city and the whole reason we recorded out of there is because this uh young little african mother and She was a co-producer on tell me something good They recorded tell me something good and when I told bernard Hey, I know a studio where they recorded ugk at We just went to just look to see if it was like a real deal thing Like y'all have a studio in houston like and it's not rap a lot Like where can I go and get in this place? Like how do I get introduced to this lady named bernie? Like what's going on and they end up doing like south park mexican and a couple other people that came up out of You know that area, but yeah, that was one of the whole reasons We even went to bernie and shatiro's because they made a ugk record. Let's go back to pmsc I want to ask about this pmsc You meeting him the first time. Yeah, like like where are we all at? Let's go all the detail into that. I was on tour promoting the uh album by prescription only And my brother being my babysitter aka my manager. He gets a phone call from mama Monroe And she gets on the phone and she says You can call me mama or you can call me miss room role, but you can't call me by my first name You just not old enough right you can't call me west and that kind of set the tone with my brother And she said chad wants to talk to your brother. Can he come by the condo? And at this time He's telling me this I think it's a prank call. I thought all right man. Who's pulling your leg, right? Who's pulling your leg, right? so We get the directions and we go over to the condo and miss Monroe opens the door and We walk in the condo chad wasn't there and she said would y'all like to have a drink chad's on his way home Uh two and a half hours later after being there We get a phone call. It's chad. He's in route, but he wants me to go and look in his room Right. I'm like, okay. This is kind of like, okay. What's up with this? Walk upstairs. I go into his room. He says look on the side of my bed. No, he said look on my bed I was like man. I see some nice sheets. He was like, well look on the side of my bed And it was my by prescription only cd. Wow, and he was like man That boy's in the hood is my jam banging ugk front back and side to side because white boys in your hood are all so cool And he was like, that's my jam. He was like, I'll be there in 30 minutes When he walked in the door We half, you know Dabbed up took me right upstairs. We smoked and it was just a How much can I learn from this guy in this period of time because I don't know what I'm gonna be back in This situation. Wow. This is like meeting Elvis to me. Like the holy ground has opened up, right? And from that night on, you know, if there is a show he wants us to ride in his limo If there was a place that we're gonna be at we're gonna be with him If there's an opportunity to record a song I would follow him studio studio until I had my opportunity to you know, work with him And they were knocking out three songs a day because he was about to go get locked up So that was my first experience of meeting Chad pimp see and it was just you know, I can only describe it as Meeting, you know, they say never meet your idols never meet your idols You know, they'll never measure up not only did pimp see measure up It was like a blessing because the guy I was emulating which I truly was because I didn't have my own voice then Uh was pimp see I wanted to be like pimp see and bun be those were my musical idols And when I was able to be with pimp and see how he does his stage performance The very first time we were with pimp see and he had a show he walked out on stage and he said Fuck jay-z. Jay-z. You don't ride on blades and the music dropped. What I was just I was like, whoa, like where are we like what's going on? Like I'm like, you know, I'm the only white guy on stage I'm off to the side. What was y'all that we was in houston on rich man Um, I can't remember the name of the club, but it used to be an old strip club that turned into a club And back into a strip club back before I can't remember the name I'm sure my brother wouldn't know the name because it's probably close to a restaurant But anyway, yeah, that happened. Hey, what did you think? What did you say? What was your what was your mentality at that point? I was like, this is the greatest entertainer of my generation What did the crowd say what they were with them? Pimp could walk into a room and it was his audience from the minute from the word go But what made him say that it was you know, it wasn't the two-pot thing was it I can't I can't speculate on what pimp's thoughts were But I know there was some Things where like bun b had did his part of the verse already Okay, we're waiting on pimp c to do his part And this is during that time. Yeah, and so I don't think that well, this was right after that time He was he was actually performing um Big pimping and all that other stuff, but uh, there was some animosity between him and Whether, you know, hey jz don't fuck with pock like and I really ride with pock and pox my guy I've heard that I've heard him say that it was like hey listen You know he was gonna set the tone and he was like jz don't ride on blaze and we were just like, whoa Like what happened here? Like where like where are we at? You know, but it was one of those things that he made that statement and that's where he was and that's where he stood at Wow, but on the other hand, he has great relationships Love him like rock with him like from what I understood j pick bun up in the Bentley took him where he needed to go They went and filmed, you know on location. They did. Chad went to Miami would have bring you back You know, you know the story goes, you know, he's wearing his mink and they're like man It's hot as shit out here. What you want? Why aren't you wearing a man? TV ain't got no temperature and that That's the same pimp that said fuck jz jz. Don't ride on blades. Like I'm like All right, he just was what do you feel like he just was was uh, like, uh What do you feel like he was just he just expressed himself how we felt at the moment I think that just comes part of being a great entertainer. You don't wear anything You know, you don't hold anything close to the vest. You just let it all out there And I think that's just what he did. He just let it out. Wow. So I wanted to go back to, you know Growing up when you were growing up and you you're being introduced to this type of music um How many white boys you saw listening to this music and we the following it the way how you were So what was really unique about my situation is uh, we lived in a nice looking house, right? The factor of that is my dad was unemployed. He got laid off from coca-cola when he was 55 years old Nobody's hiring a 55 year old maintenance. My mom was a stay-at-home mother She her job was taking care of the kids And when I grew up, I knew what food stamps were. I knew what government cheese was You know, we might look like we had a nice house, but we heated our house with our oven I didn't understand that that was a a poor quality until I went to school and somebody was capping on somebody about you So poor you heat your house by the oven. I was like, wait a minute. That's what you're talking about You know, but at the time I went to a predominantly black high school You know west barrier we tease and we call it the future prison for you know inmate, right? But it was just a predominantly black school And a lot of the friends that I had were were black, you know And so for me to be in that situation. It was just what my surroundings were It wasn't I was trying to be black or want to be I just enjoyed rap music And you know, my brother had listened to You know run dmc the fat boys the beastie boys that was all down his pipe, you know When it came to my turn. I was you know, listening dj screw and street military and ugk And that was my music three two. That was my music You know, so did people say you wanted to be black? Yeah, that's what I was all the time Yeah, I would figure that all the time and you know, I wanted to do something to differentiate myself from The last white rapper and at that time it was vanilla ice who there was who left a lot of bad taste in people's Mouth and you know m&m hadn't come out yet And so at the time of by prescription and m&m You know dj screw and I had plans to be the drain and in the south go on tour with all that and do all the support Everything else like that. Unfortunately, um, he passed away and we weren't able to you know, fulfill that dream but When you grew up in that area, you didn't think twice about Our skin color. We were just we were just boys. We were you know, homies or whatever. So nobody really You know separated the black white thing until I started working the radio angle You know now it's a different story. Now, right does he get his record played because he's privileged You know, what's going on with this, you know type situation and so, you know You get a lot of reverse racism reverse racism sometimes not all the time But we go to the national black programmers convention, you know, we're the only white people there You know all the time people always either thought we're the cops Or like what those white guys doing over here But I had a question but with you doing that and seeing so many things Do you agree with that term that? Because you are white it gets you into certain doors when a black person might not be able to Oh, totally totally and listen when it came down to the fed case. I asked where my white privilege was at I was like, wait a minute. Yeah, I was serious because I'm told all the time. Oh, you're good Don't worry about no long sentence y'all you guys are gonna do 36 months. I ain't got worried about no time Listen, sentencing came I got four points for being a leader organizer Wait, we're gonna go there, but I want to I want to My question did not exist It separated the poor and the rich and that was it and I didn't have enough money. Let me ask you this Okay, got it When it came to your music Evading the n word I've seen it as other guys that have come up on the scene that used the n word and and some some of them You know regret doing it and it was white guys, right? How do you open it? Uh, I don't know. Let's put it down Okay, there. So, um What were your thoughts? How did you exclude? Were you ever challenged with those facts of the n word? Or did you ever people come at you wrong about that or around you whether it was white or black So it could be an all white crowd that did so even though I actually hold a card Right in the hood. I got my hood passed. I don't use that word, right that word Uh evokes, uh a lot of hatred, right? If I use that word it's really bad, right? If we're in a surrounding and we're friends and you're using it towards me or whatever I understand but I will never ever say that that word won't come out of my mouth in music Or around friends. I don't own that word. I don't believe in that word It's not something I grew up on a lot of my friends were black growing up And so that just wasn't even a thought when I'm sorry. How hard is it though? Because when you're listening to rap music You hear that word thrown around a lot the only word you can rhyme You need to go get a rhyming dictionary and you need to go get you a vocabulary and come and see me If that's the only two syllable word you can think of Then you're in a bad situation. You need to get your game up. Yeah, like I said, I just it was a Other people that were doing it that were white And it caused a big friction And the thing is is like I get it, but I'm so old school. I could never you know, I could never get on with that You know what? I mean, but at the end of the day, I heard people say, oh He was around this or they've been around these types of people and you just you just said to the fact No, that still doesn't give you the right to do that Not at all, especially with the what with what everybody came through and jz seemed to think we use it because It takes the power away from you know, because I say it a lot I ain't gonna lie to you but at the end of the day I feel some type of way, you know when somebody that's not of color or even Hispanic, you know I mean like I've been around I've been like, man, I should I stop using that word because I don't want if I don't want to hear it I shouldn't maybe even be saying it. You know what I mean? So that's a good attitude to have but this But but the truth of the fact it's part of the culture. Yeah, right? It's how it's how friends greet each other, right? Is it wrong? Probably but What you interpret a word and what you think the meaning is it's how you receive it Right, exactly. How much power do you put into those words, right? Some people don't like the word idiot or you know nowadays you'll you you can't retard it You can't say retard or you can't say fag it, you know, but Growing up those were just words. We just used there was no real meaning behind it But nowadays you'll get canceled for it. You know, you said the n word or you did that? And it's a whole big blown out of proportion deal. Listen. It's part of the rap culture I don't use it. I don't prefer anybody, you know, listen if you if you use it in conversation I'm not going to hold your feet to your fire. Say, listen, I appreciate our friendship But would you please stop using the n word around me? It offends me. Come on, you know, like get real, right? But it's part of the culture and that's what it is. Yeah, I I know I I wanted will indeed to come on the show and I heard him say don't use that word He was telling somebody was interviewing. I said, maybe that's the reason I ain't got will indeed here Because I said a lot I hate I don't I see it a lot from somewhere else where People don't need to say that word a lot right and then to come here and here Even when I came here and I heard people saying that black person or that white person. I'll be like Don't say that But it's become a thing where people don't understand what you're saying unless you say that You know what I mean? So it's like not to say you you adopt to it But you know when and where to use it so to say Back in the days when when George Jepsen them they would use all counter words him and him and uh archiboncle Yeah, you couldn't hear those today Cancel you instantly Archiboncle, yeah, he would he would get no play But you know, like I said, you know, there's friends they use it in conversation You know, I just stay away from it. But I like to say my thing is I really and truly like When I heard that uh that that song with you that country rap tunes and you and hawk man to be honest with you, man That thing was jamming man. I never knew you. I never even looked at I just I don't even if I didn't knew you was in texas doing it like that I probably would have latched to it more. You know what I mean you and half of america I still remember to this date. I'd go on stage with hawk I let hawk walk out first and he'd do the hook and I'd come out and you could hear the entire audience gasp They were it was like I would be in, you know, louisiana You know and you walk out on stage and they a whole entire audience would go from a cheering to It was all in unison too, you know, and it was just a shock at the time because there wasn't a lot of white rappers out there You know, there was there was there was vanilla ice and then there was m&m And there was a guy named the beastie boys. Well, there was the beastie boys true that but but i'm talking about for like my Generations in me upcoming and for me to do a song called the country rap tune and getting the blessing from pimp It was just you know, I was on cloud nine at that point I want to I just want to ask you about like, uh, you know When you and hawk did the song just let's walk up to the way it happened The way you and him, you know med Came up with the fact because I know you touched on a little bit But you ain't going to detail what happened in the studio How did this whole song come about and did you feel like it was a hit when you done it? So, uh, funny story At the time I was real heavy into selling weed and I'm not saying I was the best in In my area or texas, but I was at least top five. I was good. How old were you at that time? Uh, I 20 years old at that time. Okay at that time. I probably had about three or four years growing experience Why I actually grew it myself. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and I knew If I could focus and make something that good that people enjoyed It was a it was a hit and that was basically my business card and my calling card And for a long time I would just trade people a sack for a track Like hey come in get you a nice fat sack drop a 16 I'll be your best friend. Call me anytime you need something boom and that's the way a lot of my Track for a sack But you smart you for your time Well, listen, you know, you have to first of all if you had something that everybody wanted if Exactly and it was a great calling card when I'd walk into a programmers office And I had my cologne on and they smoked and I knew they smoked. I knew I was getting the record played Well, I knew it. Yeah, just how much do you want a quarter pound or half pound? You want the whole pound? Let me know what you want. But you definitely gonna play this You gonna play it and depends on how many times you're gonna play and you're not gonna play it overnight Or none of that bs. I need daytime mix show. I need all that good stuff I need the 50 plus spins a week to get me on, you know, my numbers because most people don't understand being in texas You're blessed the reason why is because you have two top 10 markets in texas You have houston and you have dallas if you can get houston on and dallas on game over You can write your own check Right. And so my brother and I recognize that early on that. Hey, listen, there's a core guys here in houston That consistently sell tens of thousands of records every time they drop fat pad esg little kiki hawk zero So when I went to go do my album south park, mexican at the time when I went to go do my album See, no to the botany boys when I went to go do my album These were all friends of mine because of the sack for a track type thing and when you get something good You let your homie know, you know So when you know hawk called up pokey and you know pokey called up screw and how you know the story goes or whatever I always got high recommendations, you know So my brother sent me to the studio to record a dance track We wanted a dance track to get in the clubs get the club pumping up tempo boom boom boom boom boom, you know and so On that's I going to studio and my buddy gris He produced for you know fifth ward boys scarface. All you know all the big rappelot names He said I got this track i'm working on I was like hold up play it back and I wrote the hook and within five or ten minutes I was like dirty south was about Pouring up smoking now Keeping it high like the middle of june or just a texas tycoon making country rap tunes It's so melodic, right and it just fit in that groove. Just it was just the perfect marriage And gris he was like man, this is it. This is it and I was so scared to take it home to my brother because it was the total opposite What I was talking about It was melodic and it was country And it was you won't talk about some reverse racism I would take it to the country stations and they would laugh like it was a gimmick like it was a joke like it was a parody Just play it. I don't care what you think it is just play it and they played it And then the rap stations were just the opposite. Oh hawk and pokey on this dj screws endorse in this like hold up What is this you know? They're familiar from pimp see sand country rap tunes. Here's the here's the country rap tune Uh, and so you know pimp see wanted his own genre the own his own country rap genre And so after recording the song or recording the hook Um, that's when we started trying to figure out who was going to be on the song And that's when we you know try to reach out to pimp and and bun and uh, that didn't work out But it's okay, you know, they are well worth every penny plus more of that Yeah, but our budgets didn't reflect that. I mean we literally Sold our studio equipment that we recorded the album to get the promotional budget to go promote the album Wow, so after we finished recording the album We sold the equipment in order to have the promotional budget to go push the record because Even though southwest wholesale was in our backyard. They had never promoted promoted a white rapper before They didn't know who to market it to But see at that time 70 of all rap music was consumed by caucasian and like 65 of that was female Well, so the audience is white females, right? Well, what else you give somebody a sexy sex symbol like myself? And so we knew that if we could market it to the right people it would catch fire and you know DJ he heard the song as we were mixing it at digital services and mastering it and he said what is that And I said it's my new song country rap tune. He was like get it to me asap I'm going to the mixer me loved it and I'm gonna put it in now We go and I think within two weeks it was in full mix rotation every dj loved the song It was just it was definitely a you know a texas anthem And uh, I think it even crossed over to pop here in and dallas, but I want to hear about I want to hear about hawk I gotta get this hawk for that So if you knew hawk hawk was a gentle giant hawk hawk was the funniest the most personal Person to be around he would literally give you the shirt off his back That was just his character And so when it came down after hawk laid his verse he had laid such a good verse I had written my verse at least 10 times and it still wasn't what I wanted it to be It was just I was still trying to find my voice. I was still trying to work on my lyricism I was still trying to work on my cadence and I wasn't just put together yet and you know After I seen how long pokey was taken for the verse I knew I had ample time to really sit down and you know write my verse And hawk he was the one that introduced me to dj screw First time meeting dj screw was because of hawk hawk was the reason I was introduced to pokey hawk was over there getting them 12 the packs Yeah, that's what he was doing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what hawk was doing hawk was a good friend So and and listen, you know Having people like bun b come by and record our killer mic stop by our little wane doing his mix tapes at our studio It was a unique situation that my brother and I had developed in having one of the first all digital digital studios because One screw passed away. There was really not a place for people on the south side to go record Okay, you know, although screw was an offering studio time. There was not even a place for you know All kiki or you know any other esg or anybody to really go record What's the name of the studio? We called it the den but everybody called it toe downs I think a millionaire mentioned in one of his raps against mike jones saying that ain't your studio That's toe downs and that's on the south. So, you know, it was always known as toe down spot, you know Uh, but you know, we provided two great services one I had an ear for music because I had learned from all of ugk's producer I went and sought out skip holman who was in katie, texas who taught me how to engineer and produce I could seek out these people, you know, I look on the back of the Album see who they were look them up. Go find them. Hey, do you know who this guy is? Can I get a studio session? And it took about a year before I could get a studio session with skip holman But once I learned how to produce and then I had the experience with pimp and I really understood music theory Everything just started coming together and that's when we recorded if you heard music come out of texas between 2000 and like 2011 especially out of houston either we mixed it recorded it mastered it or produces I mean everything from paul wall's album to mike jones album we recorded the Chameleon air riding dirt with the bone part over at my studio It was just a hot spot, you know And we provided a good service a great service with the studio and we even provided a better service with the weed What did what did uh pmc think about country rap too? He endorsed it. He is like, hey man, you know when he first heard it. What did he what did he say again? His jam was also cool, which was correct, but he endorsed it. He said toe down run with it And and and that was it. That was our conversation about it wasn't it wasn't you know, uh, you owe me this or you owe me that It wasn't even like that. It was Um, he was mr. Miyagi and I was learning And I was just all ears and I was you know, 2022 at the time and Again, this is like meeting Elvis to me. Yeah. Yeah, and so The whole hawk situation around the you know the story about the country rap tune It was really hawk and him recognizing pokey would be a great addition to the song And it was really hawk who really introduced me to dj screw and that's how I got involved Okay, and and hawk when you think about hawk like Like when he passed away, I'm gonna skip to that because I remember mr. Lee was saying that he left his studio I think I left him at the time and then a little bit later. He was here. You know, he he got killed Like where were you at and how did that affect you just going there for a second? Um It affected me deeply because we were we weren't just you know studio friends You know, this was somebody I knew his wife. I knew his kids um and it was the biggest whole And houston's legacy of music From him passing away because we don't get to enjoy his music Because there's so much he still could have done like he was just started. He was just cooking Chilling with my bra and you already like that was just the beginning of everything for like him blessing Little oh it back back back back. Give me fifty feet. Yeah. I mean come on man So where were you at like like what did you were you were at home? You were at the studio when you heard about I was at I was at the studio and I had heard that hawk had passed away and I immediately just Burst into tears because you knew it was real it was real it was real and you know There was this whole thing, you know Going around that just screwed up clique is cursed and everybody's dying out of the clique and you know at that time My appetite for drugs was just uh, oh man 120 Lore tabs a day. I mean we're smoking an ounce of weed at a time If you got a a pint of drink, we're gonna kill it in one session It was just that lifestyle that we were you know living, you know And you know nobody thought that oh these pills i'm taking is basically heroin This drink that i'm sipping on is basically heroin, you know, and you know When you're overweight that complicates things and when you live a lifestyle of this, you know This type of lifestyle things tend to happen. But in hawk situation it was well, was it amazing Like mistaken identity like that's what that's what you knew a hawk hawk didn't have that hate in his heart Like that wasn't hawk that just wasn't him You know, was it a robbery gone wrong? Was it mistaken identity? Well, what was it? You know, yeah I mean, I spoke to both of his son tajin karan and you know, we had uh Taj and I had a long talk I mean an hour or two talking about What he felt about his father and you know, how it was growing up and you know He has a legacy to carry on because of his father and now he has opportunity and so I think hawk's time was cut short and not everybody got to really get to know hawk like I did which is it's just sad But i'm here to help promote his legacy and make sure his name stays alive and make sure the country rap tune gets played Everywhere I go and so he was a type of dude that like I said would give his shirt off back to you He was just the most fun loving guy to be on the road with Uh, there's so many good times we had from filming the country rap tune video to being on tour He was just one of the greatest guys to perform with and when he came on stage his hand would go up and the whole crowd's hand would go It was it it was like watching a uh a conductor at a symphony Did you when you when you when you and him? I mean you knew him When did you know him when his brother passed fat pat? So? Or you met him after that. I met him after that. Did he ever talk to you about his brother? Uh, no not much never did mention him. It wasn't it wasn't I didn't mention him. Is that we just didn't talk about it Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't like hey. Well, you know talking about fat pat You know because the music y'all dealing with music You know maybe remaking his brother's song or doing something with his brother's music and I remember When rec shop brought the fat pat single to club oasis to break it for the first time I'll never forget that day. I was with the group thugs of another kind and we were promoting out in the parking lot And uh rec shop showed up fat pat showed up and they dropped it in a in oasis and club oasis at the time Was like the hottest club in houston for like hip-hop and stuff and the whole crowd went crazy It was it was just one of those things when you heard tops drop. It was it was off It was it was off and around tops drop. Yeah, man You guys man, that's something else, man. So I just like I said, I I know you full of all the music all the people dj screw Um, you know, like like this little kiki I've interviewed little kiki man, but dj screw was one. I wish I could have got to meet him, man Everybody tells stories about how how dope he was and how his movement was man. I mean dude great dude. Yeah Hawk calls him up and he says hey tore down was on his way And that was the first time you mean it was the first time I met screw, right? So I go knock on screws door and The a gate and screw opened the door with a ak Really? Well, it's just me and my brother. We're two white guys knocking on the door, right? You know, yeah, again, either you thought we were the polies. You didn't expect toe down to be white You know, hey ma'am toe down hawk sent me over here. Oh, come on in toe down And when you walked in the screws room, there was just there was just records There was no place to sit. You just stood there. You know, you were just in in the presence of greatness And the very first night I met screw three two came by and we all we we lit up the stick and we all got You know on that other level That was my first time ever meeting dj screw. So Ever since then we were as thick as thieves, you know, I was like, hey screw. I'm working on this project You know, I got everybody on it. I'd really like to get you on it And I like for you to you know chop screw my record and he was like toe down. I got you just bring me the records Yeah Well, that creates a problem because when back then when you're recording, right and we're making cds He's not using cds to work, right? He needs the vinyl Well, that means we have to burn acetates or make acetates of each song Wow, so he could screw it down, which is a lengthy process So I think each acetate back there was like 500 bucks. You got 12 songs on the record You're you're banging your head, but it's dj screw So we recorded all his vocals for the interludes of the album and then we were gonna make the acetates and have him go chop and pop and uh Unfortunately by the time uh by the time we got the acetates bag. He had passed away. Wow man, I I definitely loved his movement and everybody and Everybody knew and loved dj screw look kiki his uh Just his they used his like like even pimp c they would use his his his screw down version on everything I thought that was a big part of the movement in houston, you know, listen I created a little kiki till this day if it wasn't for kiki. I don't know if I'd ever been a rapper because Kiki allowed us to follow him on tour. He had a manager at the time patrick and they were with jammed down And patrick and my brother really had a bond and we really learned from kiki We learned how to set up merchandise tables We learned how to you know After you get off stage go set up at your table and meet and greet people and shake hands and kiss babies and sell merchandise And we really got a lesson from kiki on how to do all that stuff It was following kiki around and you got to keep in mind man kiki Kiki can tour texas alone every city a different date 365 Every time you know So being around a class act like that and seeing how somebody who's really motivated to get it and go get it Totally different story. Wow. What did you think when kiki went over to uh switch out? Man, you know, uh, if if I got to be honest, you got to be honest if I got to be honest It was like, uh, it was like your girlfriend telling you she she cheated on you. Really? It hurts you Because kiki's the captain of the screwed up clique Yeah, he's the man. He's the captain Whether you want to admit it or not or whatever it is kiki's the captain of screwed up clique That's it plain and simple Wow four star five star general. That's him, you know, and then for him to you know Go to the other team It's like when bay bruise got traded to boston like come on man. It was just You know You want to see him You know You know be with the screwed up clique, but at the time That was a vehicle to get him to a better position. So I respected the whole business move behind it To be honest with you when we did paul wall sitting sideways It was paul wall pokey and kiki But kiki hadn't signed yet to swish your house really took kiki off and put another paul wall verse on there So originally sitting sideways was well, that would have been killed. How did it sound? Oh, I still got you got the version I got to hear that man. You got to get that to me. Yeah, so I mean that was the original sitting sideways Yeah, I never would have knew that bro That's because he talked to kiki be like man. Oh, I got it. I'm about to get him back on boston Just be like totem told me you was on the original sitting sideways and he'll tell you he was on that thing Yeah, what do you think about about totem? You you you be working You be using your head too listen I got a mess with you about paul wall man Like when he you being the only white guy that was rapping then you see paul wall come on the scene What when the woman did you first see him and what did you think about it? uh The first time I saw paul wall was at an in-store and for those that don't know an in-store is we used to have these things called CD stores where they actually had CDs and he used to sell music that way and he was at an in-store signing autographs and Rolled up on them said what's up dab hug. Amen. Had you ever you hadn't heard of him? You had heard of him before right? I had heard him and chameleon air. I'd heard them both together Oh the color changing click. Yeah and see mad hatter He used the same person to do the art as we had his name was black cat Okay, and so mad hatter had signed paul wall and chameleon air under his label the color changing click So we got to hear a lot of that music before it even dropped And so I had heard paul rap and paul spit and I I thought he was gonna blow up, you know um We were two different people though paul wall is grills and you know, I'm coming down in my slab I'm cool with all that, but that's just that's just not me a hundred percent. You know, yeah, it's It's two different, you know, it's it's two different Is it the way y'all was raised in two different places like he on the south side of where no he on uh Well, he says on 59 south lee, but he's actually on the north Baby, I let me Yeah Listen, I'm in the heart of southwest houston, texas, right? I'm at hillcroft in west belford and it don't get no more southwest and you can ask fondren flip That's one street away from hillcroft. Wow. Yeah, so listen The whole paul paul wall and I never had any animosity. We did songs together. We worked together many of And it was never I don't know. It's another white boy in the game and it wasn't that every white rapper that I got to meet I tried to embrace, you know, because the more of us It won't be so. Oh, there's a white guy rapping when I first had paul. I thought he was black I know how that feels. I'm being real Like he really was like I and when I seen him it was a delight because he he loved bro Like ever since I've met him it's always been big love with me and pow wow when I met him in vegas When I hung out with him, you see the pictures on the wall somewhere But love bro, like and but but when I first heard him Oh, man, I was like, man, this dude dope, man, and to hear him and chameleon out together Boy with some stress. You heard him. There's a rumor. There's a rumor that they're making another out Get out of here Boy, if that happened boy, I'm gonna be the happy boy boss talk gonna go crazy I'm telling you, let me tell you something. I love chameleon right here. I love pow wow, bro There's a rumor. There's a rumor That chameleon and paul wall Are dropping another album if they drop another album. It's gonna go crazy for texas. I don't know about nowhere else So tag paul wall in his post I love that boy, man toe down toe down doesn't leak that Toe down doesn't been messy. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's a rumor. It's a rumor But yeah, I sure want that to happen. So you haven't heard any of the music I haven't heard any music yet, but you it's a rumor I sure hope it happened, but that's the color changing click. Hey, that thing will go crazy. Yeah Do you know, man? Listen, man, when I first heard them boy Oh, the bars was so hard I still it still sounds like it's gonna come out today. You can hear it right now. It's gonna be time And chameleon there man to hear him even just do anything. We hear he them been so quiet That's gonna go crazy He's a businessman. Yeah, he saw an opportunity to get him, you know Some more money in a different sector And he attacked at full force and hats off to that guy that guy's just an awesome businessman Wow. Yeah, love that dude, man. Let's talk about the when he you know, he's in what you went to ask you About so where did the name dope heads? When did that come out? Because before when you was doing sacks for tracks, you weren't under that name. Not even close Back then, you know, if you were called a dope head I'm like, what's wrong with that dude, you know, it's a dope head. That's all my life. That's a Crackhead, right? Man, but but just as things become part of culture. It's now almost a badge of honor, right? And so I'd always been a dope head. I always call myself the pope of dope All right. Really? All right, you know, I always had the fire sack. I always had the best drugs I was just that guy. I got my name towed down because one night I was so messed up. I was like, man I'm fucking towed down and they were like that's what I was wondering and that's And that's how it stuck and so how the dope heads came about is uh, my last six months in prison President Obama had signed into law that if you were a non-violent drug offender on a federal case You could apply to get 10 off your time. Right if I remember that if I'd applied for that That means I was going to be at the door and I could go home I applied for it. I didn't hear for months. Didn't know if I got it or not. Finally, I get a call Tow down you were accepted Uh, you're at the door. I think you got like three weeks left. You know, you're going home and Right then and there You know I knew I was leaving behind some talented people some great storytellers some great artists some some some good people, right? And I was thinking to myself. Why am I only getting the 10% off? Why not all these other people get 10% off? So I told my brother when I came home, whatever we did I wanted to make sure it had a social cause where we could give back where we could do some for the people That we left behind and so the idea of this social cause was there And the idea for the dope heads The cartoon had been floating in my brain for, you know, five 10 years Like I got to do this when I get home. I got to start doing the merch. I got, you know, all lined up and so When we put together the idea with the animated series we're like, all right Now let's attach the social cause to it because I've read about this guy who sold shoes And I think it's like tom shoes or something and whenever you buy one pair of tom shoes He gives away two pairs. Yes, he does. Right? And I was like, that's awesome And that blew up like crazy for at one point Because now if people can identify with what you're doing how many people And you're a media family, you know, that's been incarcerated Everybody knows somebody's been affected by this drug war enough is enough like these draconian sentences Like you get a listen, I plead out to conspiracy because all my other charges carried a mandatory 10 years The only one that didn't have a mandatory minimum was pleading out to conspiracy So I plead out to conspiracy to grow and manufacture marijuana right and so It was a way for us to say, hey, listen, here's an idea. It's dope heads helping dope heads Let's do an animated series where we can get the community involved in the actual Production and development of the series where we can release an nft And you can now take ownership of your favorite animated character Imagine if you could have bought barts simpson the very first time you saw barts Or imagine or barbie or barbie or cartman. Imagine if you could have owned them, right? So I was like, let's sell NFTs Make them the characters now the people that own these characters They can audition the character if they want to to be a part of the show Or they can just sit back and get an executive producer credit And just you know wait for the series to come out and you know make your money that way And so the idea of nfts and an animated series and a social cause they all came together at the exact same time And so january the fifth we sold out of our season one nfts. We sold a thousand nfts And we've been rocking and rolling ever since so now we're in pre-production. You know, I thought Creating an animated series would be similar to music production. It's not It's not harder Find a track get a rapper record it you got a song in 24 hours, right? Okay, not even close to animation You got to develop a log line. You got to develop a treatment. You got to come up with a script You have to rewrite the script multiple times But after after you write the script now you got to do character development You got to draw each character out. You got to draw their expressions out You got to develop all these things before you can even create the story board Then you take the story board and you attach it with the vocals and now you have an uh an animatic Which then you take to an animation company that animates the thing for you So it's an ensemble of people that here. I am thing. I'm a one-man ass kicking band. I'll do it all myself I can do it now. It doesn't matter. I've got the Man, look at here. I've caught that man. You know anything about animation Man, you know anything about these networks, man. What tell me about to be again Roku's paying. What tell me about the all day long. So the idea is there And people love the idea We have a uh a rap vehicle and you will see people on the on the highway Trying to take a selfie driving So they you know, I'll be at the gas station airing on my tires or pumping gas and they'll come up to me What is that? You know and I made a series here man. Check it out. Oh, this is dope Is it out yet? No, it's not out But we have an intro video and we have a mini episode and we're coming with some heat So when do you think you'll be able to get it completed and be out delivered? I'm trying to do it in less than nine months. So I got um, I got a lot of pre-production done already We have episodes one and two already written So now it's time for character development getting the initial characters down once we do that Like I said, we can develop storyboard and animatic and go from there But if you're taking so long to do it, um, and you only have uh episodes one and two um after one and two finish Will that give you enough time to Create three and four and so forth. Yeah, so so right after it So as of right now, I just signed a co-production deal for a development of tv shows And we have access to the major cable networks and a lot of streaming platforms to do developmental content And so what we do is we create a sizzle reel our character reel Deliver it to the network executives and they can order Pilots or a season what usually happens is I'll ask us. What's the budget for the season? Then they'll give us 10 15 and say go create the pilot after the pilot is that's when they ordered So instead of cutting myself short with just one pilot, let me get these two down together And then when I bring the whole thing to the network, they can see what it is the community's already there We're already see the numbers come back exactly. I mean we have nine 10, 000 people on our instagram 5, 000 people in our discord 5, 000 people on twitter We've only been around a year the buzz is just building every day everywhere we go people want, you know The stickers the air fresheners the merchandise. So we can't keep merchandise like I wanted to bring y'all You know a whole box of shirts, but we just got a shirt or a shirt order for 4200 shorts shirts for all the Bahama mama location. So Yeah, so Shout out to Bahama mama So be looking for your dopehead apparel inside the Bahama mama smoke shops and all their affiliates And so, you know, it's a constant, you know cat mouse game. It's like, all right, we're handling merch today All right tomorrow's animation. All right tomorrow. We're rebuilding the websites. It's always a constant evolution of this and I just wanted to make sure that the Animation is as great as the idea and concept itself because the idea and concept itself is just solid And so I didn't want to put anything but my best foot forward and moving with the dopeheads And so that's why I'm trying to make sure I got the best animators on the team The ideas that we have is The dopeheads are 2d animation, but when they get high they go into 3d So now we're blending 2d and 3d to get as though, right? So again, the idea has to be as tight as the initial concept itself People eat with their eyes, right? That's true Make it visually stimulating. You know when people see the stickers, they automatically know what it is. Oh, there's a weed head Yeah, there's a mushroom head. Oh, wait a minute. It's a drank here. This is tight Man, you know, and it's often running there, right? And so we are able to create this This this hype behind this brand and really turn it into something bigger, you know, it's south It's houston influence. It's texas influence Scarface wants to be a part of it. Devon the dude flavor-flav The the mexican ot i mean lil flip everybody i've turned i said hey, man Would you mind voicing and before i could even finish just tell me what you need toe So it's just that's lovely and then you already have those relationships. So that's good Yeah, but i know when you got um arrested for conspiracy. How over you? um I had just turned I had just turned 30 Okay, and was that the first time you ever got in trouble? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was a good boy I'm gonna be honest with you. You know gz said don't stop thugging till the feds come get you, right? So I had two state cases prior for that, but they were the exact same thing They first busted me while I was at the mtv vmas They raided my house they come back home and all my stuff's just out of whack My second arrest was because my brother had a 6700 square foot of state When you sent it to me it said four million. That's a lot because I had one guy on here Man, what's his name the one from detroit? You don't remember Um, man, he he got busted for three million I believe it was in marijuana and I can't remember his name and that's sad But the four million that was on the third time when they arrested you right? So I want to hear about this because I'm Four million is a lot bro, and I want to see how they came over to calculate for you It's not that a lot when we start to talk about and we'll talk about it So this is how it works out marijuana when you grow it it takes time And we could grow a crop in 99 days. So that means we could roughly get four harvest a year. Okay That's just one house In order for me to have a crop come down every week. I need 12 houses Separated a week apart. Does that make sense? So that means every week. I'm bringing down 25 pounds Right my brother, he would like to wholesale it for 4 000 a pound bring him his cash He gonna liquidate it me. I like to sell quarter pounds at the time. I was doing for 1400 So no problem like 5600 a pound all day long. So four sacks out of a pound. I'm good so A hundred thousand hundred and twenty thousand dollars a week Basically what it came out to be and so we had come down with 20 to 25 pounds just like clockwork every 12 weeks When I got busted the first time that was only one grow house. That was my personal house That wasn't that wasn't even the bigger one wouldn't even include it They thought we took my weed and took it over to my brother's house But that was far from the truth. My brother's house was going and growing before my house was You know, but he just had a larger estate he We were able to do 25 lights in his house. We were only able to do nine lights in my house So you're doing all of this at the house that you live in, right? And with weed when you're planting weed, doesn't that like smell like everywhere? So there's things to combat that so you take a charcoal filter and they're five foot charcoal filters And you put a fan an industrial fan on top and it sucks the atmosphere and it basically cleans the air through a charcoal filter So I'm pumping fret because what plants need is what we expel, right? We expel carbon They produce oxygen so they need to breathe clean air And so what we do is we would put co2 in the atmosphere to Bring in the carbon and then we'd have to exchange the oxygen out of the air so that they could breathe properly Otherwise you have a stale environment the plants aren't breathing and they're they're alive just as much as you and I are So you are manufacturing top quality. Oh the best the best I got my seeds from cannabis cup winners out of the back of the high times magazines Really germinated them myself. I grew the seeds myself I I did the mom plants myself at the time of my brother's arrest We had 25 different strands that we were working with and we're trying to find the reason we had so many It's because we were trying to find the right strand that would maximize in a four foot indoor growing space You don't want a real tall plant and a place you're growing indoors, right? And you don't want a super bushy plant, right? Because it won't it won't grow tall enough So you got to find the right plant the right hybrid and for us It was either sweet 2 3 a k 47 or white widow or most of the indicates because what we could do is we can maximize Each inch of that grow room. I could put a hundred of the same exact plants The canopies would stay the same. They would all grow at the same rate They'd be at the same height if you're growing 25 different strands in one room You're going to have one that's tall as a tree one so so you don't really maximize your growing efficiency at that time So what you do is you pick one strand for that room or that environment And you try to maximize because if you have an eight foot ceiling The light has to hang down about a foot or two foot and then to get the plant up off the floor It's about another foot So out of that eight feet you really only have about five feet or four feet of growing space that you got to maximize Obviously the plant can't sit on top of the light can't sit on top of the plant because it's gonna burn it exactly So, um, I had been growing marijuana You know experimentally all my life And when you talk about hybrid when people think about because nowadays we have so many different strands and they cut into Is that still natural because anything that's just like we talk about grapes sea less grapes That's manufactured as made like that's not good GMO and stuff like right So where weed is concerned with people um Doing things to it. That's not natural So I wasn't I wasn't Dissecting the weed that way what I would do is I'd take two great weeds that I like the last one Yeah, I was working with The precursor to og kush, which is called kim dog number five So I took kim dog number five in white widow And I I I bred them together to produce some seeds out of those seeds I would then create a plant where I could do a mother plant where I could then clone off that one plant So we never genetically modified anything We just took the best of this world and the best of that world and brought them together A lot of people are doing that though. Well, you know, it's to We is just the medicine that needs to be out there and everybody needs to know about it. It can make you feel um Creative it can cure depression. It can take care of your uh, people who don't have an appetite Um, it can do a lot of things for you. It's It's one of the only medicines out there that is a cure all almost for everything I used to have a lady and she would buy an ounce a week $550 from me every week like clockwork And I asked her hey, what do you like smoking you like smoking? I have a bong a paper She's like, I don't smoke it. I grind it up. I make a paste and I rub it on my arthritis And that was the first time I was when was what year was that? Uh, 2017 for cbd and all that stuff came in. Wow. That's that's that's live man. So Yeah, the street lord rook. That's who got busted for millions for millions But it's it's crazy. How did they estimate that like I still want to understand so so if What they do is they do it by gram, right? They think $25 a gram 448, you know grams and a pound they're multiplying it by the gram, right? They're trying to put the most amount on you because Whether you're in a fed case or whatever the amount is what they're trying to increase, right? The more the more of a sentence I can give you But what was a big difference in our federal and our state case was what's the definition of a plant The federal government recognizes a marijuana plan of being a root a stem and a leaf And the state they only consider smokable content. So just the bud So what they did in my state case is they went and they cut all the weed off the plant What they didn't know was at that time we had just gone into bloom and there was no buds on the plant So they thought they had 50 pounds of weed But when they came down to the testing of it, there's less than two ounces Wow, they basically had to let us walk on a state case Well, that wasn't cracking in their books. So they called their oh, they're called their older brother up And they're like, hey, this guy's out here acting an ass. He's court side at all the games He's driving around in 600 bends. He just bonded out twice This dude's just really getting over on us. And that's when enough was enough and that's when the fed stepped in And at my federal arrangement, I'll never forget they're describing this minister society this threat to this community A danger to his friends and family and I'm looking at my brother. I'm like, man, that sounds like a bad motherfucker We gotta meet him and he says stupid ass. They're talking about you And I'm like, oh, we're in a different ball game. And that's when I knew I was going to do some time Well, so so when When I seen the clip and there was a news clipping where they came to your house And it's four million and it's crazy. So you telling me at that time you wasn't even understanding what was going on No, because I had an appetite for the lifestyle, right? Um, I knew I was going to prison at some point My brother didn't he he was a smart one, right? His job was to keep his little brother out of prison, right? And my dad was like, you couldn't do anything. I was like, I couldn't do anything He said it's like it's like trying to drive a boat From someone jet skiing or skiing behind the boat. He said I my lifestyle was so Onto that level of trying to impress people that really didn't matter You know going to the clubs and popping bottles and being around my peers and doing I was thugging The people that were rapping about it weren't necessarily thugging All the stuff I talk about my raps You can check out It's in a federal indictment. It's in a state indictment. There's a thing called a discovery You can look at it. It's there, you know, so my appetite for the glamour life It was just, you know, come on. Why buy the 550 when you can get the 600? What year did you go to prison and what year did you get out? So 2007 2007 to 2011. Okay, so you didn't you didn't just I did I did five years and four months Wow. And and so and that and that obama thing it helped you out a lot. Man. God's great How long would you have done if that 87 months? Okay, so 87 months. Yeah when that judge Uh, I had Ken Schaefer as my attorney. Yeah, yeah Jay Prince's attorney and Well, like he is so well respected when you see him walk into a state courtroom Everybody tightens up. It demands here. The man is here When you walk into a federal courtroom, it's a different ball game You are on a chart and there are levels to the chart and depending on how many times you've been arrested And what your criminal history is depends on what category you're in Right and the amount of weed that you have or money or whatever they can convert because what they do is they convert it into whatever Form they'll take the money and convert it into weed. Okay, if they catch you with a hundred thousand dollars They'll convert that into weed and they'll charge you with the weed, right? And you're on a chart You can't move that chart. That's a guideline, right? And so if you're lucky enough to be a leader or an organizer, they're going to hit you with four more points If you're maintaining a place of manufacturing, they're going to hit you for another two more points So now my time just doubled Because they said we're a drug trafficking organization Organization have you met the seven potheds out growing weed with me? Like for real like we couldn't even meet at the same time every day organized Man really like I came and tell the dude make sure you water first thing in the morning when the lights come on You can't be watering mid-afternoon like it's too hot like for real like bro. You killing me like Man, you came down with how much and they came down with why is it coming down different from you? We got the same recipe the same plan. You should be hitting your mark three pounds of light. Like what's it? Organized my brother He's the most organized person on the whole entire team But to be a drug trafficking organization. We never thought you got to get everybody else on the same page for real like and you know Out of that situation There were seven of seven of us got that got arrested at the time only three people didn't talk wow Really? It was my it was myself my brother and my other cousin everybody else turned and y'all got the same amount of time No, no, no, no I got the most amount of time I got 87 months He was a ringleader Well according to them my brother was technically the ringleader But the reason I got more time is because I had one more grow house on my indictment than he did And so he was the first on the end whoever's name is first on the indictment is the ringleader And it was his name and then my name and then other five co-conspirators And what they do is they get the weakest person Are they find out the one who's who's the weakest and they say hey, we're gonna attach all of toadown's Crime on to you. So you're gonna do your time You're gonna do toadown's time and you got caught with a gun. Well, that's a mandatory five years just for that So you're gonna do 40 years unless you give us some information. We won't You don't want to talk. Did you give your mom some money? Well, we're gonna get her for money laundering That's the way they operate. They squeeze police don't police. They don't go to that investigative stuff you see on tv They find somebody they squeeze the weakest link and that's how they get the indictment That's why they got a 97 conviction rate. It's not because they're doing police work. It's because someone's telling Snitches and then what they do is they say hey, listen, we'll give you two points off your sentence If you go ahead and accept responsibility Well, if you accept responsibility and they know we've been hanging out together. Well, you just dry snitched on me I'm so dead So, uh, listen, I can beat one snitch. I might be able to beat two snitch Hell, we can't shave for we might be able to beat three snitches. But five of them I I just can't just can't do it. Just you just you just up against the wall How much did they get y'all with like like that when they came and busted you like Did they did when they when they came in the kids are red handed? No, so what ended up happening was on my first arrest We knew way before then something was up Well, first of all, you can only ride success for so long, right? And then you're just playing the odds after that And so my brother recognized way early on instead of paying off the houses Right, what we'll do is we'll just ride mortgages on them And then we'll take the money and put it up for a rainy day Instead of going buying and dropping all that money on a 97 000 on the bins Just go get a a note on it Right that way if the feds come or stay come they want to confiscate it Well, now you got to argue with the bank. Yeah, that's y'all's problem now Meanwhile, you have your rainy day fund So we knew early on from bun put your cars in your crib and your mom and me and it was a boy Like we already knew all that was coming down the pipe beds in town So you could prepare your way ahead of the game And so my brother was so far ahead of the game when they came and busted us the last time They were knocking holes in the wall to try to find the money because they had heard That my brother stashed money in the walls, but that was only partially true He stashed in the ac vents because who looks in the ac vents, right? But he didn't put in the ac vents that he's he put in the air return So you take off the fill turn you have this huge air return and he had built shelves in the air brother That's why I need him on this show. I he needed to be on the next time. Let me ask you this like How much money did you guys have put back when y'all Had to fight this time the last time the one the the one each other's fighting for your life So every time we got arrested we doubled down on grow houses So if we got busted with five grow houses, we had doubled down and we'd go start 10 You think you would have quit after the first time you can't the reason you can is because so many people depend on you Yeah, but how much money? I give you a story We were trimming weed and we had cut down about 25 pounds of weed, right and Um, I tell my brother. Hey, I'm gonna meet you at the studio. I got some clients. I need to handle I'm gonna need about 12 of those bows. Do what I need to do. I'm gonna go shower. I'll meet you over at the studio He goes to the studio By the time I get to the studio all the weeds gone A hundred thousand dollars in cash sitting there, right? I said, all right And I went and I went we had a closet and the back of the closet And I grabbed as much money as I possibly could and I just stuffed it in my pockets And I said I'm not coming home until we spend it all because I knew how much my brother loved money Right and the last thing he wants is baby brother going there and digging in his stash, right? And three days later hellified bender Still had money there was there's only so much you could buy there's only so many trips you could take There's only so many clothes you could buy there's so I mean the first time we got busted. We probably had a good mill mill mill and a half put away By the third time we were busted I don't know. Maybe two or three million put away. Wow. Yeah, but you also got to remember As a dope boy, you really don't start working until you get locked up That's when you put your time in right really all those days you've been out there hustling. It's easy come money It's easy. It's easy. It's easy the day you put in work is when you get locked up That's when you clock in 24 hours a day and you go put your time in And the generation that my brother and I grew up on is we're not going to give anybody our time If you did it that's on you, right? And he explained to everybody that after the second time we had gotten pop pop He was like, hey, listen, there is a great chance of us getting busted again Do you understand that there are going to be repercussions if it comes down the pipeline? And at that point we had made all our friends millionaires You know every year on just one house you can make about 300 grand on one house And so we had been doing this 10 12 years And so it was just one of those things that our friends we had made millionaires But as you start to do your sentence things happen. Hey, listen Mom she had a stroke dad passed away. Mom needs money to repair the house Your cousin needs money for the funeral and nobody's looking out for them. Who's gonna look out for it? All the friends that you know, listen, maybe people will talk that game. I'm your I'm your homie. I'll ride with you Listen, I don't where I got you. Listen prison works like this When you get locked up your first month everybody's writing you you're calling everybody everything's good six months later It's half of those people a year from them. It's it might be your core family might be two years from them Everybody's gone. Everybody's gone. Everybody's gone. Everybody is gone. But but let me just okay how much Was that your what was your biggest transaction? Like like you you talked about the hundred thousand digit it brother, but that wasn't your biggest What was the biggest transaction? I remember getting on a plane. Give me the whole story I remember getting on a plane and going to california and I brought my own weed that I grew right and I wanted to source uh a supplemental weed because We had 12 houses already and when you think about it, that's only 25 pounds a week Well, if I got five guys and they're each moving five pounds a week That's only five guys moving five pounds a week. There's still another 10 guys. I got to serve, right? So I need other weed that's just as good as mine to supplement. So get on a plane I got about 400 000 cash I'm going to get some weed from california and put on the plane with me. I'm gonna take it back to houston I must have visited probably 15 or 20 farms And nobody could come close to the stuff that I was doing the The stuff that I was doing was indoor. It was quality. It was controlled I can manipulate the color of the plant If you wanted purple weed, I could freeze the plant out and I could deliver purple weed If you wanted to taste a certain way, I could supplement the taste We were that far in the game with the stuff. So you would think that california would have had because that's where They do have great weed, but it's mainly outdoor And so you can instantly tell outdoor from indoor by the color of the green, right? Something that doesn't it's darker or lighter Well, and indoor is lighter because it doesn't receive that direct sunlight that makes it hard enough It gives it that deep rich emerald color. So it's almost like a lighter albino-ish green if you would so it's a lighter color Which is better I like indoor Why? It stays out of the elements. There's nothing that replaces the sun. Exactly. They do stuff now where They do something where it's kind of like indoor, but it's outdoor It's called light deprivation and that's where they take A retractable roof and they basically open the roof during the day and then they close it, right? And that's probably a little bit better. But just something that See indoors I can take the environment and I can increase the co2 in that environment to make the plants basically be on steroids Now I can produce a thicker more heavier plant So it's all about the production. It's not about the taste or texture. Both of them will still have the same Well, yeah, but the taste comes from the actual plant itself, right? If you start off with good genetics, I can supplement and put sugar into it to make it a little bit sweeter, right? I can make sure that When I go through my Last couple weeks and I just do fresh water and I can cleanse the plant out of all the nutrients I can bring a good taste into it I can bring taste if I do a longer cure period where I'm curing the plant for a longer period You know at a at a cooler temperature, right? So taste can be developed different ways, but it all starts with the strand How good that strand is once you have a good strand then you can build off that So really I've smoked good outdoor weed that's just as good as indoor I just prefer the indoor because I can control the environment, right? So let me ask you about this real quick because you brought us some goodies brought you a whole bunch of goodies man We got them and I tried this and it tastes really good But I'm not feeling nothing yet. Get you another one But you said you eat edibles though. Yes, so please have another one See, you know what to expect. You know, it's coming down the pipeline. It's coming It's coming down the pipeline You know, there's enough in there to get you feeling good But like I said, one will make you feel good two will get your toe down try another one I will try another one because This one don't have me feeling good yet, but that but I will say it is an empty can there Yes, I did drink it all out man. She did drink though. What else do what else do you have here? So basically we have the houston juice which I'm sponsored by houston juice And we're coming out with our own toe down juice within the next six weeks So if you want to get the houston juice hit me up at toe down It's toe dot down on instagram or at dope heads nft and I can plug you in with the houston juice The other is the dope heads, right? We have the rolling papers. We have the air fresheners We have the merchandise all that can be it smells good to it. Don't smell like weed or not at all It smells good all that can be purchased from our website in our store You can follow us through our link tree on dope heads nft At dope heads nft And we're just super easy to find, you know Wow My biggest question is Would you guys having so much experience and with with marijuana and with cbd and all the stuff coming so You know opening up front. Are you guys going to get into the business as far as you know what I mean for Growing them again and all that Like you guys what's the other one name? The one uh the the ones that cookies and all these guys they uh big chief that's ad just left here They they rolling man. So this is what we've done. We've teamed up with mellow fellow And they are the big dog in the game, okay? They are the creme dolly creme. They are the premier brand, you know Their products are unrivaled against anybody else really right and they can ship in every state except for california and they have different flavors different flavors Different forms of thc from everything from thc a thc v I mean, there's so many things that thc can do now and we're talking about real flower We're not talking about, you know a spray or this or that so mellow fellow And myself have teamed up to do a cross promotion with the dope heads And so when you want something that's as high quality as the houston juice or as you know, my products been known for in the past Mellow fellow is the brand that we're teaming up with to bring you that experience Wow, and you bring a lot of experience to the table So making that deal with mellow fellow to partner up with you. Did they take in consideration all of your experience? Well, you know, I don't I can't compete with their their lab and their tech Of course, of course, but you know, but you bring a reputation to the game And just as music and marijuana have a symbiotic relationship toe down and dope heads and you know THC have a symbiotic relationship So just like if you're looking for a good hamburger, you know to go to trill burgers Just like if you're looking for a nice high quality product You're gonna come mess with toe down and mellow fellow Mellow fellow is going to get you to the place where you need to be every time and not in that but there's different There's different flavors there if you want to be creative Uh, if you want to relieve some anxiety everyone is is it's different. Oh, so they're for different things. Yeah So depends on what you exactly what you want more of a euphoric effect You want more of a euphoric effect everything. So the way it kind of breaks down like this is you know The the weed house. I'm gonna break it down like this You can walk into the door, right and inside this weed house. There's different THC rooms THC v THC a All different types of rooms and THC So we're just starting to explore the different THCs that are out there and due to the uh farm bill that was passed You know because it's a hemp product and it is THC We're able to distribute it through every state except for california. Wow man Congratulations on figuring it out. Well, listen, I've had I have great partners in mellow fellow Ever since day one that I've teamed up with them. They've always, you know, blessed me with hey, listen, try this out This is what we're trying to push out there right now Tell us what your feedback is and I'll give them on you know an honest feedback because I didn't believe That you know something that was legal could make me feel this way Maybe feel this good or equal to what I'm used to and I was dead wrong. I mean not only better, but I mean top quality Um, I think one of those sells for like I think 69 dollars. Wow, right, so we're talking quality and I mean Everything from flour to the vapes How long would a pen last it lasts me about a month that long? Yeah Because I'm not constantly charging on it I might once twice and I'm putting it down because it's such high quality You know if you have to go back and go yeah, what quality is that unless you just like the flavor, right? Those flavors are great, but you only need one or two and that's it. Wow So, um, the next thing I wanted to know since you were arrested and convicted for conspiracy where you know Weed and all of that is concerned if Texas ever become legal, right? Um, would you be eligible to go into that business or no? Because the federal government says that marijuana is a scheduled one narcotic Which means it has the same evaluation as heroin And crack the federal government says that marijuana has no medical value Now 27 states said that they have medical value Yeah, then how is it legal then in certain states because what happens is you have different levels of I'm gonna break you back to social studies class. So you have different levels of the government, right? You have your local you have your city You have your state and you have the fans, right? And so The states can have their individual laws, right? As long as they don't conflict with the federal government, right? But what happens is if a state has voted for recreational marijuana It's very difficult for the federal government to chart somebody with a marijuana crime in that state Exactly because they can't find a jury to convict because they voted it in by a majority So the majority of the people that are going to be on that jury have already voted for marijuana in that state Which is that's why those states aren't you know being pressed by the federal government If the federal government really wanted to shit on everybody they could go and close all those stores all those stores down immediately, right? That's not gonna happen. The states have voted Hey, we believe in marijuana. It should be recreational or it should be, you know License and we should be able to you know smoke it and enjoy it The problem is is that if big pharma, right? Understood all the capabilities of what marijuana is That's the reason they've been lobbying against this the whole time The number one supporters of the drug war and all that is anheuser bush And these people because what's happening is that's breaking into their market the pharmaceutical industry the same way So the pharmaceutical industry if they knew you could grow all your medicine and your backyard for less than five dollars They'd be out of business Oh, no, you can keep going. Oh, so, you know That's what I would love to be the gym being a marijuana and do my own strand and come out and do all that stuff again But until the federal government says that it's not a scheduled one narcotic I'll be a mellow fellow representative. Wow Next best thing I think I think man, like I said, this has been the greatest interview man Um, I knew it was going to be exciting man But you definitely like I said, uh, just to hear your story and the the things that you the challenges and then to be so Culturally, you know involved with what we, you know, love is music man. I think that's dope, bro Like like I appreciate that. Yeah, you embody, uh, just the texas thing the pmc thing got you all the way in with me Anyway, you had to worry about it. You you straight up welcome the boss talk one-on-one Anytime you feel like calling me up because listen, I listen to pmc stories That's what this show is built up for next time I could get my brother on hill I'll tell you even more stories about really. Yeah, he's he goes deep He's got some woolly deep stories out below your mind Really? Yeah, he's truly a character all in all in itself But listen boss talk is a staple in our household. Wow. We listen to it all the time. Wow It's a staple in texas. You know, there's no better representative of our state than you guys I appreciate y'all giving me the opportunity of being here bringing my brand to my support, you know Check out gotta check it out. Check out mellow fellow. Check out the dope heads. If you have any questions call me You can call me on the phone. Uh, I leave everything open if you want to reach me on instagram It's toe dot down to w dot down You can reach me on the dope heads at dope heads nft And like I said, you can just reach out and call me. It's all good. Top three artists of all time dead or alive And you guys if you watch boss talk one-on-one, you know, that's what we do any genre top three artists of all time Dead or alive. Let's go. I got the first one and two for you right now. You got pimp scene. You got blundby Hey, man, I love it boy. You don't even know boy You could have kept UG. You could have said UG girls number one Say listen, man. Love it bro. Love it. Listen the show that's tell them. I'll talk about that I'm just even gonna say number three. I'll just go I'll just go ahead and throw Tupac in there just for names Wow, man, you see this guy This guy right here come on boss talk every day. Y'all don't even realize what's going on over here, man I like to say I'm gonna always get you back on the show. You don't even realize it, man Great question. Sure. Because I was being nosy and looking through the uh, mellow fellows, right? Right and I saw one says clarity Right, but I see one says desire. So what is that supposed to do? Well, you know, I want to say it's the viagra for smokers, but You need to just need to check it out mellow fellow. It's in your local Bahama mamas Uh, Bahama mama is a very successful smoke shop. Um, you can also, uh, Check it out online. It's at mellowfellow.com. But yeah mellow fellow Bahama mamas where you can buy them Check them out. They'll be carrying all the toe down merch along with you guys. Yes, sir So, uh, we're gonna do it dope heads and toe down are invading soon. So if you don't know now, you know, you know, you know, man Thank you so much for coming on the show, man You've already told everybody how they can get a hold of you and reach out, man I just want to thank you again, man for coming on the show me and my wife We was excited about this and amen. It was everything I thought it was gonna be man Toe down been on boss talk 101 what a boss is talking. Y'all better stop playing man. It's a wrap and we out