 And how are you doing? It's been a while. It has been a while. I'm great. How are you? I'm good. I heard you're finally back in Toronto for a while. Ah, yeah, temporarily. Anyway, I'm always on the road, but it's good. You're like the most nomadic human being I think I know. That's probably true. I like to say I'm 50% from Toronto and 50% from airplanes. Global nomadic citizen of the world, but it's good. It's good. I think that's one of the most like missing things people have is they're not traveling enough and seeing the rest of the world. They live especially here. I think actually, especially in Toronto, we live in this bubble of a 50 dome over here that people really don't realize how the rest of the world is. It's very true. Although we're lucky that in Toronto, 50% of people weren't born in Canada. So then we could get some access to diversity here versus some other spots in Canada and the US, but yeah. Would you say Toronto's if not like the top ever city in the world? Actually, it is. They do a lot of medical research studies here because they can get such a broad cross-section of individuals in one place. Fascinating. So today we want to talk about the most exciting news in crypto land since who knows what and that is Facebook's Libracoin. It is exciting. It is exciting. It's interesting. The funny little side note is interesting little jab how they did with like, you know, how Gemini has their coin, like the horoscopes, right? I'm like, why did they call it Libra? Then I'm like, oh, shit, Libra Gemini. There's a great little fight going on between the two of them. It's pretty funny. Google's probably gonna come up next. I'm like, if Facebook is doing a coin, where's Google? Then Amazon? Amazon already has a coin, Amazon credits. They can just turn that into a coin. So I'm like, the whole fan companies are gonna come out with your own coin. They're gonna come out in a big way because this is really the fight for global dominance more than anything else. So it's pretty much they won't be leaving that fight on the shelf. So, but what's your take on this? You know, so like on right now we have, we have the data or the information they gave us. It's only in testnet. So whatever we have right now, it's not set in stone when it goes live, right? So it's just prelims right now. But based on the preliminary information that we've gathered, what's your take on this? Yeah. I mean, when you look at the commentary right now, we're seeing a lot of people who, I would call more ordinary citizens who think this is the greatest thing that's ever happened, and a lot of people from the crypto space who know better and know that this is one of the most dangerous things to ever happen to the financial system. I kind of see it from both perspectives. I think the first thing to target when looking at how this could have a positive influence on the world is looking at developing countries and, you know, the 4 billion people who are unbanked or underbanked. And that, you know, we often talk about that in the context of developing countries and places overseas, but the reality is 25% of Americans are actually unbanked or underbanked. So this is, it is a problem where we are. And so this is going to essentially create choice for a lot of people and give them a whole other option that they didn't have before. And this is particularly relevant in places where there's very little banking offered at all. Because people in those situations, 85% of people live in cell phone covered areas, and they have access to phones. And so they, this is going to enable them to have access to a financial system that they wouldn't have otherwise had access to. And so I think that's, that's a really important thing to understand. But more importantly than that, and kind of within that, that comment is that for a lot of people around the world, the only way they can access the internet is through Facebook, because internet is too expensive on its own to access, but Facebook offers a free application on mobile devices. So they have, I think contracts with 50 different cell phone providers or mobile providers around the world that enable anyone to access it for free. So a good example of this is Myanmar, where in 2001 they got access to the internet. But by 2012, still less than 1% of people were using it because it was just too expensive. And then Facebook came out with this free app. And now that's the only way people access internet. And so for a lot of people, there actually is no distinction between the internet and Facebook. Like if you interview Nigerians, 65% of them think they are the same thing. And so that's the reality for most people in the world. So these ideas around, well, you should use Bitcoin and you should use these other cryptocurrencies is, it's just not realistic because they can't access the internet. So this is an important step for people like that who now have access to an alternative to their government financial systems, which are often not that good. Interesting. And so based on the information that we have, what do you gather that's going to happen? What do you think Facebook's game plan is with this Librecoin? It's always money. It's always about money and power. Well, of course, of course it is. They got to please the shareholders. Yeah. And I think that's the unfortunate thing is they are a bit strapped by that corporate construction in the sense that they are legally required to create revenue for shareholders and returns for shareholders. And so what they can do is not as transformative and not as meaningful because they're building within this preexisting walled garden of the Facebook series of platforms that builders on Bitcoin and Ethereum and other platforms are not restricted by. And so when I think about the currency of the future and what I would want to see, it's not Facebook, but I think from Mark Zuckerberg's mind, I don't think he sees big open systems as being beneficial to either himself or the shareholders that he's beholden to. My question is when people talk about unbanked, you mentioned some countries in Africa, let's say India as well, or Myanmar. What does that mean though? Are they looking for access to just currency that they can do remittances, move from point A to point B? What are these features that they're missing or don't have access to? I think at the most basic level, it's somewhere to store and grow your assets. So in a lot of places, everything is in cash. And so if you're trying to save cash, you're putting it in a lunchbox or under the mattress or somewhere that's not safe from not only theft or that type of risk, but also the risk of the elements of the weather, fire, water overuse, that type of thing. So from a very basic standpoint, it's just somewhere safe to keep your money. But from there, it's the on-ramp to all types of other access of services that they don't have right now. So imagine all the things in your life that you do with a credit card. If you're in the United States and you don't have access to banking services, you don't have a credit card. You can't do anything online. So it takes you significantly longer to pay your bills. It takes you harder to get things done. And so it makes life more difficult, but it can also prevent you from accessing services that you might want to have. So that's at its most basic level. And then you can start to build the layers on top of that of what a functioning financial system would provide. So that would be access to capital. It would be the ability to build up your credit score, these types of things that can help you fundamentally move from one socioeconomic class to another. Let's go through some, because before we started this, you and I were talking offline and we wanted to go and do kind of an overview of pros and cons of the Librecoin. Now from a non-technical aspect, then we only know what they told us. We don't know when it's going to go live net. For me, it's a delegated cartel. It's permissionless to the degree that we give you permission to the degree of permissionless. And no one can join. It's not an opt-in or opt-out node system. So they have to accept you within their cartel. And it's not even a blockchain. It's a glorified database that doesn't have merkle trees or anything, whatever. What do you see as the beneficial aspects of the Librecoin in these countries that you speak about? I think really it's choice. It gives someone the option of choice to choose something other than their government-induced fiat currency, fundamentally. And so for in a lot of these countries where the inflation rates are insane, it offers people somewhere to put their money and the choice of something else. And I think that gives you a couple of things. One, it gives people a little bit of agency and also the education to kind of get them to that next step of getting over to Bitcoin. But two, it also tells governments that you need to clean up your act. You need to get your operations working better. You need to manage the financial system better if you want people to use it because they have choice now and they can go somewhere else. And so that, I think, is a good thing. But it's also a situation where people will have to choose between two evils. And when people are offered choice, the question is always, but who is offering those offerings? Who is the one that is providing people with those choices? And in this case, the choice between a non-functional or semi-functional government and what Facebook is offering is more of a dilemma than a choice. But I do think it is better than nothing, especially if we treat it as a stepping stone to further Bitcoin adoption. If we look at Bitcoin adoption, let's say like in Myanmar or Nigeria or Ghana, pick any African country or Southeast Asia anywhere. The biggest issue right now, I would say, it's a fee at bridges. Digital, I'm not even talking about physical, digital fee at bridges. So connecting some of their local banks or local cards or local whatever on to an exchange or some type of platform. Do you speculate or do you have any ideas of how Facebook is going to solve that problem? Because okay, great. Now you have penetration in Africa, let's say 50% people have Facebook and I called out, I agreed to Facebook's layer one before the internet. I've said this the last three, four years. There's Facebook, then there's the internet. And you're right from the psychological standpoint, people view Facebook as the internet, where was I? I was having my wedding in Croatia last year and you can buy the prepaid SIM cards. And they only have SIM cards. Some places are just SIM cards for Facebook. It's not even SIM cards for calling or anything. It's like specifically SIM cards for Facebook but I'm like, wow. And so for me though, it's like, okay, you and I, we're Nigeria and we have cash, local currency, we don't like it. I'm still confused about this, about how Facebook is going to create these bridges for them to now purchase Libra. Yeah, so I think I'll tell you how it's probably going to happen and then how it should happen if they were doing a good job of this is most likely they'll take advantage of the massive network of dealers that are already on the ground. So there's lots of kiosks where people can buy and pay the credits or other things like that. That's already a well-established system that they can just pop into and knowing the demand that'll be available, those dealers will get on board really fast. So that's an easy way for them to do it. The way they really should be doing it is by giving users a portion of the revenue from the money they're making selling their data. That's really what should be happening. Barclays estimates that Facebook is going to make more than $19 billion in the next two years just from this expansion, not from the rest of it. It's $50 a user they make off of two billion users per month. Yeah, it's crazy. It's wild and it's really gotten to the point where it's unethical because previously had they'd been doing that with their Facebook data and that kind of thing, but when you start to add in financial transaction data, that's where things start to get even more ethically murky. And so fundamentally what they should be doing is following the model that BUNS is using where they're paying their users. Big shout out to BUNS, guys. Come download BUNS, Toronto-based BUNS. It's awesome, but they're actually paying their community for looking at advertisements or answering surveys of these types of things. And that's what Facebook should be doing. They should be giving back to the community that they've built this entire network upon. But whether that'll happen, I doubt it. I doubt it too. I doubt it as well. I don't think they care that much about their community, which is part of the problems. They don't see them the same way. When you look at Bitcoin and Ethereum, the community is central to making changes in the network and growing the network. It's really a decentralized group of people building something together. Facebook is a top-down mechanism that they impose upon the people of the world. The people get some value and that's good, but that's not the future of the world that we see. My biggest fear is a currency this ubiquitous and them looking at your transactional data. They say it's synonymous. I don't buy that for one second. Yeah, sure. That's like... Yeah, exactly. And the concern is like, again, for people in Canada and the United States, sometimes it's hard for them to appreciate why that is so dangerous, right? I mean, I always get people saying, well, if you're not doing anything illegal, then it shouldn't matter if they're looking at your transactions. Yeah, Edward Snowden has a good rebuttal for that. It's like it's a free speech. If you have nothing to hide, it's like... Yeah, I know. And so the argument I always make is like, imagine you're a woman in Saudi Arabia and you want to make a donation to a charity that is fighting for women's rights. If the government can purchase that data record, that transaction record from Facebook, you'll be killed. It's not a question of, they'll take a look at things and they'll sell it for advertising. You will be killed. And this is the reality for billions of people in the world who live under authoritarian regimes is that this is not about tracking somebody's porn habits or if they're buying their spouses. This is really about human rights and how the lack of privacy can actually steal those human rights away from some of the most vulnerable people. Or even like last week in Hong Kong, no one wanted to use a WeChat or any credit cards. They went physical with cash to buy train tickets to get to the downtown court to protest. Like I don't want the government, because they know the government is tracking that, they're like, oh, you went to the protest. Exactly. And so the same thing sort of applies here in the sense that, I mean, Facebook is one step back from direct government control, but they are a corporation. And so in many cases when Facebook has been used to organize anti-government protests in places like Bahrain and Pakistan and Turkey, the government has forcibly shut off Facebook. And so you can imagine that let's say this becomes a huge success worldwide, which I would predict it will be. And people essentially move to Facebook as their primary financial system. And then they start using Facebook to protest against government, etc, etc. And the government just says, hey, you can't operate here anymore. And in an hour, the entire financial system is shut down and people are left with no access to money. That is totally possible and highly likely in my opinion, especially when a lot of these governments that are used to mass control their citizens start to realize that their control and their power is being eroded away very quickly. And so that's a really big concern. Yeah, my fear is political control, more Orwellian state, surveillance capitalism. But for every action, there's a reaction and for every so-called negative situation, there could be a beneficial situation. I'm trying to look at this from a judo move, or like a jujitsu move. Facebook is literally calling this a cryptocurrency cool. More people are going to indoctrinate into cryptocurrency. But then I'm also thinking beyond just the educational aspect of cryptocurrency, how do we do a judo move? How do we piggyback off of this and bring people over into DeFi, whether it's Ethereum or Bitcoin or whatever, anything but Libra? I'm more interested in those aspects. Yeah, I think this is the key piece that the crypto community needs to start to organize around. They've got to come together. How do you take that step and get people from Facebook to crypto? And I think the best way to do that is to plan for the inevitable scandals and work off the back of those. So wait until, yeah, get everybody on board. There's nothing wrong with that. But then wait for the moment where a government pushes back or a government shuts it off or a government whatever and say, hey, look, all the same benefits that you want out of Facebook in terms of being able to send money easily over borders, take it with you, you can do that plus, plus, plus. Here's how you do it. But one of the issues that we have in crypto is that we don't build with the user in mind. We build with the technical person in mind. And that's a problem. And that's why we're seeing the growth of these tokens or these companies that are maybe not the best tech, but they're the best at actually solving the problems for the people that they're marketing to. And that's how we need to think. We need to think, hey, if you're in the middle of Congo and you need to send money over borders and they're not allowing Facebook to operate, what is it that that person actually needs in an application? Maybe they need it to work on a feature phone, which is something that Facebook does. And I don't think any crypto operations do in any meaningful way. So these are the things that I think we need to understand that, one, Facebook will be successful with this. This is going to spread like wildfire. And that's okay. But two, we need to plan of how do you make them that transition over to crypto so that we can essentially not allow this enormous shift in the power structures of financial systems to go from government to corporations, but instead to go from government to the people? I think there's a couple of interesting roadblocks. One, they have their own roadblock because if you look at their technical paper, they can only do a thousand transactions per second. So they're not scalable. They have the same issues Ethereum and Bitcoin have. So they haven't solved nothing, even though it's a database. So they still have to technically figure that out. Second of all, Republicans in the United States and the Ministry of Finance in France publicly went on record today stating, we need to kibosh this as of today. But I think, I mean, people think that's a big concern. This is going to be like Uber. It doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, for sure. This is moving forward. And I think this is, it's a real wake up call to all the governments out there that didn't think that cryptocurrency was ever going to happen. As Andreas Antonopoulos said, this is the bargaining stage of grief around the transfer of financial systems. I know that was great. It was beautiful. And he's been saying that for years. I saw him in 2013, I think 2014, and he was talking about the stages and how we would go through them. And so it's, yeah, I think it's, I think more than anything, it's great that people around the world are thinking of different models that can be used for finance and for money. Because historically, the concept of separating money in state was just unthinkable, both from the kind of scare factor of, oh, I couldn't imagine any other way, but also, hey, I never thought about that being possible. The biggest problem though, I actually didn't, I don't care about money in state. I think it's a massive issue now, but I think Circus, Circus 71, pre Nixon, when the gold was still connected. So people like, people complain about right now, I want to say lack of job people complain about, I don't make enough money to survive where I live, which is true. If you look at costs of rent, you look at every old, like the average, I just know Canadian stats, but the average Canadian male across all careers, provinces and territories about 45K, give or take family combined is about 60 ish to 65. You need bearable and minimum about 65 to 75 to live Toronto and renting, not even owning. Not even owning. Yeah, forget owning. Owning a million dollar house in Toronto, 20% down. So I don't know about you, but I don't know too many people who have 95 jobs that have $200,000 liquid cash to put down on the million dollar property. And even if they don't buy a million dollar property, below a million to put 5%, they need insurance on the mortgage, which then the monthly carry is ridiculous. They don't have that liquid capital cash flow. But the issue is like, it's not your job. It's not your career. That's a problem. It's your buying power. It sucks. You have no buying power. Since 71, we've been the quantitative easing a couple of trillion dollars printed, suppressing interest rates, not to be negative interest rates like France and European Union are talking about, they're going to Japanese model and go negative interest rate. No wonder. So it's like, I view like, you know, UBI is a very altruistic, is interesting. I think there's better ways to do it than UBI. But I'm like, this is Band-Aid solutions. As long as we have Fiat that is inflationary, that has quantitative easing, that we're putting negative interest rates, nonstop, you're buying power is you're losing 10% a year. But imagine this, though, to pick up on the UBI conversation is that if you had, if Facebook was actually sharing a lot of that revenue back with the users themselves, that in itself is a form of UBI. You know, it's maybe not enough to support you for your entire month. But I mean, if it gets you half your rent or something, that is a meaningful amount of money for a lot of people that Facebook is fundamentally hoarding at this stage. Ideally what they should do is, I had my favorite UBI is UBI sovereign wealth fund, where it's not everyone gets money is we pulled the tax money and it's deployed into there's phases is deployed first into your local area than nationally. So you actually stimulate the economy and everybody has equity within this fund. Fund is run by a manager and everybody gets their dividends. So it's actually performance-based, right? So it's a good circular economy as opposed to we're magically going to get some money to everybody's like, where's his money coming from? How are we deploying it? Like, I don't get it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But imagine like, yeah, but imagine we had like, I don't know, but that'd be pretty cool. You just had to say, like, okay, we have Facebook Librecoin. And I will say, fuck it, I'm using, I'm using Facebook already. Take this portion of my data, monetize it. The money that I earn from that, give me Facebook stock. Yeah, give me the stock. Why not? Why not? I'm, I'm the reason you're benefiting is because of me, right? A lot of times you're selling my data that you don't have permission to sell my data. I don't know if you saw or heard the story, but there's this one individual that made some fake video about Pelosi being drunk. Yes, in the video, but it's like he altered it. Facebook gave up all his information where he lives and everything. And he got doxed. He got doxed. Oh, my gosh. How's that legal? That's not against, it's not against the law to make a video about somebody. He didn't call for harm. He didn't tell it to kill anybody. There was no hate speech or anything. He just made a satire video. And with the proportion of people to get shot by cops in the United States, if you know, they're coming down your door to arrest you. I mean, that is, I'd be a joke about the legal ramifications for the company if this starts to happen. And I think this is something Facebook needs to think about is, is it responsible for the actions of the people who buy the data? So for example, if someone uses Facebook coin to support some kind of protest group or to buy something that they shouldn't be buying, that's not really that bad. And then the government buys their data and that person gets killed or imprisoned or what have you. Should they be partially responsible for the effects of what they've done? Well, if I'll, I forget who the president, I think they got him from PayPal, was it? He was stating like, I'm paraphrasing, like we've purposely made Libra, so we don't cater to criminal activities and, you know, people who are in the drug world, blah, blah, blah, blah. But how I took it was we will track your usage. And if you're found to use that on stuff that we don't like, we know who you are, you will be blacklisted and your name will be put on a list. Yeah. And this is the question also is who's setting the rules about what they like and don't like, right? So even when you look at Facebook and Instagram content today, you've got a bunch of interns sitting there clicking the mouse, yes, no, yes, no. And there's a lot of things, for example, photos of women breastfeeding for their nipple is showing they get picked off the platform. And so if you have, you know, an underpaid intern that's kicking people off the platform that is now the primary financial system for the world, that's really concerning, you know, that that you are going to be censored in a whole new way. And that extends also to your purchases, you know, as you say, like if someone doesn't like what you purchased, then they won't allow you to buy it. Or more importantly, if one person can buy the censorship rights for a particular area, so let's say you wanted to buy a t-shirt that supported the Democrats, but the Republicans had purchased the right to censor purchases of Democrat t-shirts in the particular region of which you live. Like it's, it's, I don't want to say the ideas are far fetched, but they're totally possible. Well, they're not far fetched. You can see the stuff that happened with all the, the ghosting or, or what's it called, like shadowing humans, like you may not like him or love him or agree with him or disagree with him. But what they've done with Alex Jones was just, he's disappeared. These ghost human being, they de-indexed him from Google, PayPal, MasterCard, Visa, all the payment processors says, nope, you can't, so you don't have any access to any major payment processing system. What do you do? The only option is crypto. Yeah. And so like Librecoin is no different to me than PayPal when it comes to like, well, we don't like that guy over there. He has no access to us. And if you send him money, we're going to shut you down. Yeah. And that's, that's a concern really is, is out of fear for the worst case scenario, people are shutting things down. You know, you're making payments to family members in Syria who need the money while you're supporting terrorism or you could be, you know. And that's where we need to, this needs to be at the forefront of the conversation about Librecoin in terms of what its limitations are and what can happen in a society where we let something like this become the backbone of every financial transaction that happens. Listen, you know, we can easily look at examples today where places of turmoil in nations, majority of payment processors stopped doing business with them. There's embargoes and sanctions. You can look at a lot of places in Latin America, you look at Turkey today, you look in Iran today, you look at like China, Hong Kong, automatic embargoes. And the only way of really getting money there is like, you got to have a peer to peer network of getting cash in there or now we have crypto, right? Like I said, Bitcoin, which is why people use it. And so for me, it's like, I don't view, I don't view the Librecoin any different. For me, I actually, my best example, Librecoin is Tether. Librecoin is Tether. It's backed by Fiat. Instead of one to one peg, how Tether supposed to be an Al Tether has a Leo coin, I don't even know what they're doing. But Libre is backed by a basket. I'm assuming G20 country Fiat, you know, let's say like the pound USD pound yen and Euro and the Euro, you know, and they're located in Switzerland as, I don't know, a corporate non for profit anyways, have their organization in Switzerland and they have this basket. So we don't know if it's going to be peg pegged. I doubt it. You know, stable coins haven't been proven to be peg peg. They've also said that they are going to have a committee of people who were decide to either add more Librecoin to the market or to destroy it based on keeping the token relatively stable, which to me is extremely concerning that you're going to have a group of let's say 10 probably rich white guys controlling the entire financial system. And what a particular token is worth. I mean, that I don't know how that can't be seen as massively fraudulent, that they can just buy up certain amounts when they know what's going to happen. It's really concerning to me. And I think the greatest part is that Zuckerberg and his white paper talked a lot about trusting and don't worry, we won't do this or because all of our nodes have our reputable organizations, they won't fail the network or they won't mess with the network because they don't want to lose their reputations. I'm sitting here thinking like the vast majority of the world's money laundering is done through very reputable banks, you know, more than $2 trillion. They didn't like Deutsche Bank just got fined. They just fined all the time. They're moving all kinds of money through the system. And so this concept that that's the only thing is a trust me, especially coming from someone who's been actively involved in the manipulation of elections in the United States, in Africa, they've been involved in the genocide of Rohingyas and Myanmar, like trust me from Mark Zuckerberg is it's kind of a joke. So it'll be interesting to see because they're not launching for another year, 2020 next year. And if they stay on schedule, who knows. It'll be interesting to see where the crypto space is and how Ethereum reacts to that with their open DeFi with like, you know, die and maker and all these other options, Dharma. Yeah. I think we also have an opportunity in that gap to put out products and get people first and say, look, like you, you want Facebook Coin already. That's awesome. We've got an alternative that you can use right now. People are talking about crypto. And now's the time to join the conversation. But in a way that's meaningful to the people that we're trying to get on board, we need to stop talking about hash rates and scaling and these types of things and say, Hey, look, this is Bitcoin and this is how it's going to change your life. And we need to do that before people get on Facebook. And then after and say, this is why it's better. And this is why you need to move. Because otherwise we're, you know, we don't want to stay this sort of underground currency for tech geeks forever. We have to be able to scale globally to make it something that is truly meaningful. Yeah. My future prediction is there's going to other fang, other fang companies will come out with their coin. These coins are more or less competition with preexisting banks. They're looking for new streams of revenue to keep on growing their company. I think crypto will be in a whole different basket. Yeah. We will open up the marketing and the awareness of what crypto is in general. And I think, I think the time, I think the ingredients within the recipe are perfect right now for the next five years. You have censorship and free speech that's being challenged every day. Yeah. Either we have free speech or we don't. There's no pick or choose like, Oh, yeah, you can say this, you can, no, no, no, no, it's free speech and a story. So that's being challenged. We have issues with banks, we have issues with corruptions, we have issues with FIA, we have issues with inflation. We have the next crash probably happening due to the student loan system, you're like, what, $2 trillion? None of those students have money. Bro, this doesn't exist. I don't know where. I mean, who owns those? Who owns those IU papers, these? Yeah. China probably? I don't know. Who knows. Yeah. And so I think, I think, I think the ingredients, sorry, the ingredients for the recipe is perfect for this like new web 3.0 ecosystem that we're building. I don't know when we're going to hit that hockey stick curve adoption. If you look at technological curve adoption is usually about 15, 16 years. So we're only in year 11. So we've got another four years to go if we're looking at historically speaking for how long it takes tech to hit retail people that everybody knows. And I think the thing that we need to do to accelerate that is to look at, we've been trying to convince North America, Europe of the retail benefits of crypto for years. And it's not working because it doesn't fundamentally solve a problem that the vast majority of people have. We need to start looking more at Africa, at Southeast Asia, where these people are actively seeking solutions to the problems that they have. So that's why my passion is on, on those markets and why more people in crypto need to be paying attention to them. I agree. Do you have any last comments or words to wrap this up? Oh, goodness. I mean, this is, it's big news for crypto. And I think it's important firstly for people in the crypto space to understand that as terrible as a lot of this is, it will still be transformative for a huge number of people worldwide. And it will make their lives better. It will help them move up the socioeconomic ladder. And so there are some really amazing positives that are going to come from it. We just need to be aware of what the negatives are, so we can make sure they don't happen. Beautiful. And if people want to get a hold of you or reach out, that's the way to do that. I'm on Twitter at atan underscore Connelly or you can find me at anconnelly.ca. And it's always a pleasure. And I'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye.