 Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to another episode of Dr. Jill live. As you know, I have over the years by accident become a mold expert and so a lot of my shows I get to talk to experts in the field and today is no different. I will introduce Brian Carr formally to you in just a moment. I wanted to say we were just discussing how long ago do we meet and where was it and it was probably four or five years ago at one of the conferences and I just had always had respect for these guys at the mold finders because I felt like they were really number one they wanted to understand the patient experience as well. And I would say 95% of people in this field of mold remediation don't really know much about the mold effect on the human body and the suffering that my patients go through. And as you well know Brian will talk about this today. Many people who are suffering from mold are the canaries so there might be three people in the home they're like I'm fine. And there's one person who's incredibly sick so this toxin and the toxins it produces mold in general affect people very differently. So it helps us as clinicians and the patients to have people like you who are in the field helping us find the problems that really understand how much this can affect team and health and really understand the problems sometimes of how we need the claims and you know that kind of remediation done. Let me introduce you, and then we'll dive into the conversation. Just background if you guys want to find other episodes you can find me at Jill Carnahan.com. You can find products at Dr Jill health.com. And you can find all of my episodes I think we're on number 90 something at my YouTube channel, just under my name, and you can also find this on anywhere that podcasts are played like iTunes. And if you have want to look at some other episodes are all there. So, Brian car my guest today is a second generation indoor air environmental consultant who specializes in working as we said with hypersensitive individuals with complex and medical conditions. So many of you listening are grateful for people like him that we have to help us. He helps them understand if mold mycotoxins with other in their pathogens exist in their homes, and they can maybe contributing to their health conditions, and then how to remedy these issues. Brian I'm just going to stop there just for a second and say, I can do what I do all day long but the big factor is having people like you that are helping the patients find the problem because, as I've said so many times before and tell the patients get out of that exposure or immediate or fix the problem. I can give all the supplements IV is things in the world and it won't change unless their environment is clean enough for them to get well. So we are so grateful for people like you. Brian really has been a go to mold and biotechs and resource and if you aren't following him on Instagram mold binders he is a great resource I love the content you're putting out such a fan. I need someone like you know we need each other and I'm just so grateful to have people out there like you giving really accurate good information about mold and how it affects the health. And as we're going to talk about today the hidden, you know sources of mold in your home or the hidden problem that you might not even know about many people are completely oblivious until their health goes downhill and like what's going on. Brian's become a go to resource like we said for many medical practitioners like myself across the country, and he's helped over 3000 hypersensitive individuals nationwide nationwide to create healthier living environments. So, Brian, how did you get into this and tell us a little bit about your story. It's funny I'll say I didn't go to school to go look around from olden people's houses it's definitely not. You know what I my story I'll keep it somewhat short because they can extend out but like I had my own issue like a lot of people do get into this area and for me. I was sitting in my room, I just been laid off of a advertising job in the 2008 sort of financial crisis thing that happened and like looking for a job on my computer. And I feel something like on my arm right I feel like this thing and I look up to the ceiling, and, and my ceiling was dripping. And I can actually see the stain the stain was like like building as I was like I was like holy crap this thing is going to fall on me right now. Wow. They kind of did like I dope out I grabbed my computer down my bed and the ceiling like collapse essentially waters coming through the ceiling. It's an apartment there's a pipe leak up there. Anyways, so fast forward. You know the landlord freaking out something's going on you got to get this fixed so what do they do they send somebody over to fix the pipe leak and that's pretty much all that they did. Yeah. And, and they're like okay everything's cool you know we tried everything out you're fine whatever. And you know, this is for a lot of people like you put trust in these people, you know like oh they managed buildings they must know oh they said it's fine it must be fine I was no different and one thing I was going to say to folks is like, you know, I may talk a lot and ramble on and whatever whatever but like at one point in time I was just like you like I wasn't any different right and like you could learn this stuff. And anyways, so I start kind of noticing the first hit for me was cognition hit I started realizing that like, I wasn't able to remember things easily I was a little slower wasn't as sharp as I normally was. And then like the kicker for me as I wake up one day and I start seeing like red patches like on face like I was I was getting like eczema or psoriasis type of things that were going on. So that was kind of the kicker for me now the thing that got me into this is that I was my who's my wife now I was dating her at the time, her dad, who is now my father in a lot is literally one of the top guys that does this in the country. And she's like you should call my dad these things down similar people that he works with or whatever. And honestly I was like super hesitant, I just started dating her. I'm like, I don't want this to be the way I meet your dad, whatever eventually end up caving I have him come. And it's interesting because the landlord has sent somebody because I was complaining beforehand they sent some local someone in. I mean you could guess what he did he came in took an air sample my room took one you know over here and he was out within 2030 minutes. Mark, who is my my father was Mark Levy. He spent two hours and 800 square foot apartment found eight different things that were going on some not even in my room some other places and and essentially helped me kind of get out of that situation navigate how to get out of the case and like all the stuff and at that point still didn't have a job yet and I immediately like right after this whole thing and I was like I need to I need to do this like I want to work for you right now, like I'll work for you. Let's do this. And he, he, he bet and there you go that's how I love it I love it because you know what you know I'm trying on my story I was in an office that had flooded during the 2013 floods. It already had issues because I was over, you look at laugh at some of these things so my office was on the second story right above an uncross space that had standing water. And then the floods happened in two, two levels down in the basement and standing water and there was Staggy battery block all over the place, plus the crawl space and then my office had been remodeled. And my contractor I don't know what he was thinking came in and said, let's take this old 20 year old carpet and just throw in throw on bamboo on top of it. So they just threw bamboo flooring right on top of this old nasty carpet that was right over in the cross space that was not okay at all. And every time I walked it would be soft bamboo would puff that gross carpet that carpet was probably loaded with mold. Oh my God, like the whole thing was like, I look back now like oh if I had only known, and I got sick like you the cognition the skin stuff and started noticing issues and I finally went down to the basement got a box sample, clearly I had batteries everywhere and then also my urine was loaded with trichocytes things which are from Staggy so that was all the evidence I needed and I moved out and never went back so totally get it but I didn't know a thing and same thing the landlord I went to and I said this is an issue I'm getting sick. They wouldn't do anything. So I had to leave, I had to actually leave and break my lease and we made it right but it was, my health was more important than the money. And I just say one thing I'm breaking leases because a lot of times people will be like, oh I'm stuck. I'm in a lease. I can't get out. Listen contracts are meant to be broken contracts. They are, they just are right there's loopholes there's things you can do there's ways you can do it. They'll try to make you think that you can't get out of it. All it took for me was a threatening letter from an attorney that said I was going to sue them all of a sudden the contract didn't mean anything all of a sudden they like let me go because they don't want to deal with it. There's ways to get around this and don't feel like you're so trapped like by this contract that you can't get out. And I love that you're saying that because I get contacted a lot to be an expert witness and legal cases and different things I try to avoid the, I am not a legal testify like that's not my area it's too stressful. I'd rather help the patient and let someone who's an expert and kind of a, I don't know if you know enneagram but eights on the enneagram of those confrontational kind of they're good at that I am not. But back to the healthy patients is there are ways even your doctor I have had patients where I've written a note, you know, we have these labs with this health condition I don't think this is a good environment and even though I'm not an attorney. That has carried enough weight to often get them out of the lease as well so do if you're listening out there and you're stuck. It's so tricky because they involve usually your home or your workplace and it usually, whether it's remediation or moving or breaking a lease, it's financially there's consequences and it can be hard. So not to say that it's easy but don't feel threatened or trapped because your health is the most valuable asset that you have. So I love that you said that Brian. Yeah, and think of it this way like it's a financial thing for you. It's also one for that. Right, like it's not just one side of the fence like think of it from their point of view like okay. I got someone in here who's probably going to raise the stink. I might have to get my attorney of all to pay my attorney fees. Oh, what if I have to remediate this one wall. Right. Like their buildings I went through this whole course on how to like invest in real estate and how they do the math and they do all the formulations and stuff. I mean if you're in an apartment building let's say they're they calculate based on how many doors are in the building and they're going to turn a profit of like a few hundred bucks per door right so if you come in here like oh by the way it's gonna cost like $2,000 to fix this, you've killed their profit margin across five doors basically for a year. They don't want you in there they'd rather get you out and move somebody in there right so like from them it's beneficial to. Yeah, I totally agree and again having a conversation human to human and they don't always listen but you can start with really practical just hey here's the situation, you know I need your help. It's surprisingly a lot of times that you can get a lot of traction that way. So I love that you're like I said back in the beginning the story in my story it's it's really, it's probably why we're two of the most passionate people on Instagram, because it really does matter and we saw the detriment to our own health. And I'm assuming you got back your health once you got out of there and everything and I did too. I'm still dealing with it because I then was going into everyone's house for years and years and years after that so my I was like tricking. Our time lived in a really moldy place so I'm I'm so I have like got things that I'm still trying to figure out at the end we'll have to talk after the call. So let's go. So the biggest thing I think that you brought to our title and to the top of today is, I think there's a lot of people out there, a lot of my listeners have mold know about mold whatever but if you're listening and you're like whatever this doesn't have anything to do with me. What are some hidden signs or things that you, these people might be noticing either their health or their home that might indicate a mold problem that they wouldn't necessarily know about. I joke about this all the time but it's like so true it's the secret to go in and find a mold in a house is to not actually look for mold in the house like if you do that you're on the right path, because you can't really see it like very rarely is it able to be seen. The secret to doing this is to look for signs of water damage and not stuff that's wet right now, right although that's a problem but most times that we go into a place. The temperatures are dry the infrared cameras don't show anything it's because the problem happened before and it's dried at this point. So the biggest misconception that people have is I need to have a water problem right now for there to be more problem is completely the opposite from that. And I mean just think of it this way imagine you had like this big beautiful yard that you had and then you stop watering, like does the water does the grass just pick up and walk away and go somewhere else. No, it dries out it becomes brittle it breaks apart if you play with the if you you know with the blades and that's exactly what happens in all colonies so that's the concept like imagine that happening in your house so the way that you that you kind of figure out what's going on the very, very, very first thing that you do in the first conversation I have with every client and talk, talking about the history of this house. Yes, hasn't been any previous water issues. I'm not talking floods like if there's been a flood shirt tell me about the floods that's great we need to know about that. Was there a drip under your sink one time randomly that you just like oh we just fixed the faucet and it stopped where your kids splashing out of the bathtub for like three weeks straight and before you got them in line let's talk about that. Talk about these little things that happened that we normalize as being normal in a house, because we were never taught as kids growing up that these things in a house are a problem. We were always telling oh you do this you let it dry that the flip side of that is when you like got your first car I'm sure your parents were like, you better put oil in this car. Otherwise there's a problem like my dad told me if I didn't put away on my car my car would explode. So you better believe that I put oil in my car every 3000 miles that car my very first car was like a $5,000 car or something. People's homes are 100 times that. Yeah, and we've never learned these little maintenance things that you need to keep an eye on in the house there's no one's fault it's just what it is so if you take nothing else away from this other than this one thing. There doesn't need to be water right now. And if you look anywhere and you see some of the things that we'll talk about here in a minute these signs that you talk about. There's a really really high likelihood that there's a little problem back there. Yeah, yeah so so and I love that because again I'm clinician but I'm also being detective and I want to know if I need to refer them to someone like you. So I'm asking the same things if I just said is there mold in your house 99% would say no. So I never asked that question I'm asked, how's your washer ever leak does the dishwasher really does your floor buckle when you walk on it is there any, you know signs that yeah your cabinets and showers, you know, all these things as a grout is a cracking so little things that do make a difference and there's many more questions. And those are the signs that will often lead to something that is an issue. Yeah. Can you tell us about kind of the hidden things that you might besides just the obvious like you said no not necessarily seen mold. Yeah, so it honestly breaks down five things like I, we went through everything that we went through all the inspections we've done we created a training program and how to find mold in your homes and so while I was doing that I was like okay we got to figure this out. I got stemmed from a previous client that I had, who is shoes in LA. She's moving to Hawaii. And she's like Brian I want to fly you out to Hawaii I don't trust anyone else look through this house I'll take care of everything I'll give you a week here I'll put you off like I need you to do this, which normally like who would say no to that but my, my wife was pregnant was like I can't leave my pregnant wife here and go gallivant around Hawaii for a while. So, so basically I was like, Listen, I can't do that so why don't you do this why don't you just sort of tell me the rooms that are in your house that you printed for me this many bedrooms as many this as many just tell me that. And I'll try to write something up for you. Basically I was going to try to like take what I do and put it on piece of paper for her to kind of go through right. So she does this for me. I basically write down these things to look for and then I went through old inspections and found some pictures she could reference and stuff and to do that. So she goes to this house. I had done two other inspections for her like she's seen she's seen it it's not like this is new to her. She's in escrow goes through the house she's like, Oh my God she's like this place is a disaster how did I not know this. Wow, gets out of it, and then I don't talk to her for a little bit after that she follows up with me a couple months later she's like Brian. I, we, you know we got out of that one house, and then we went looking for some more she's like I literally took the same thing wasn't even specific to like the new houses I just took what you gave me. And I went through all the new houses. And I weeded out three more houses and we found the house that was a good fit for me. And it was a light bulb that went off I was like you know what, like, well yes every house has his quirks and stuff. Every house, every apartment, it's basically the same thing as walls for ceilings cabinets bedrooms laundry rooms bathrooms kitchens like they all have the same stuff. And then the process that we do to inspect all of it. It's the same, ultimately you're looking for the same stuff in the same places in every room. And so as I broke all that down that's how we created the program ultimately but kind of realize there's really only five signs of hidden mold growth right these five signs of water damage. So one of them is bubbling, whether it's paint, or like building materials to think like, if you open your same cabinet under you know kitchen sink and you look under it's kind of like bubbly like you see like little bumps in there. And that means that the cabinet soaked into some moisture. Right. If that's happened, then there's a likelihood that there's mold under the cabinet. Right. And that's an example you see bubbling and paint you can see in a cabinetry and would and things like that. Even guys, what we're talking cabinets, even product bottles that week. Okay, the main ingredient of product bottles of water with some little additive. I've had a kitchen sink in a place I was in my wife bought this cleaning product I didn't even know what it was I opened the sink. Something had exploded. I go back pull it out mold everywhere I look at the bottle it's a mold cleaning tile spray for your shower. Wow, exploded mold all over my cabinet. Yeah, like they're all water based. So don't look at a ring and say oh that's the product ring there's no way that could be something that's not necessarily. Yeah, that's one. The second one is cracking and peeling. So, think, think like chipping and flaking paint. That's like a good one, a good example of those that you might find. Sometimes you'll see cracking, kind of breaking out from different materials that could also be signed up water gets in so peeling chip and crack and that sort of thing. The next one is like buckling or separating so think like floors will buckle and bow right if water gets in them baseboards if you look at your baseboards. If you look at the top where they meet the wall and they're you know the grout kind of connects it to the wall it's like smooth and then all of a sudden like one of them's like like bowing out a little bit and you can see little gap in between where the wall and the baseboard is. That could have been a moisture issue that caused that right so those are like little things you look for the next one like hardwood floors or laminate flooring the buckling bowing to right. So you could just like swipe your foot across the hard floor and if you feel it moving like then you know right so that's like an easy way to do it on floors and that would happen more around areas. Usually where there's plumbing stuff or where there's maybe near exterior walls or maybe waters coming in this kind of where those things would happen more often. So that means like mineral deposits that's another thing you mostly see this in like crawl spaces basements but like that white powdery stuff that you see on foundation walls. That means that water came through there left a mineral deposit on the stone and it's there. So that means water has come in at some point in time doesn't mean it's happening right now but that it's been there. I don't see in the basement or like coming up through because I've seen that through concrete I don't know what they have a special term in the flooring industry, but that it's almost like a calcium deposit right the minerals. Yeah, it's called efflorescence is like the fancy name for it but it's literally just like a mineral deposit right yeah you'll see it on the ground to see the way my front, my front porch it rains water kind of gets over there you go out there there's all this white stuff like Okay, and then the last thing is the obvious one staining right or something. So that's it those five things if you literally just went through your house and look for these five things, you would be able to find so many problems that you wouldn't think about and that's that's basically what we do like simplify it too much. And I love the practicality of like even a leak under your sink is who hasn't had that. So, what's the next step I mean tell us about first of all, this is one thing I really want to highlight because right before the show I knew that you guys were all over the US and able to really go anywhere people needed you. But tell me just a little bit about your process because it's very unique and I think it's the future of mold remediators because what I find is someone will call me from Illinois or from Florida or and they'll say who do you know this area Jill. Well the likelihood of me having someone that I trust in that area is very low. We always go to people like you but tell us again about your process because it covers everywhere it's very unique. Yeah, it was interesting it's it all started because we're going to these like conferences that we talked about four or five years ago and honestly before that too but we start to get referrals from doctors all over the country. And at the time we were based in get an LA branch and kind of a New York branch knows it. And there's just so many people calling now like now we're actually speaking at the conferences all of a sudden like everybody comes in. And so myself and my business partner Corey. We basically looked at our family business which is what this is and said okay how can we basically expand this to figure out how to service more people. The big challenge, which we totally felt and we didn't want to miss which is what you're saying is that if you're not there. You're going to miss stuff, right like you have to be there in some way you can't just have somebody walk around the house with the Facebook live and think you're going to see stuff right. And so we basically, I don't know if I ever told the story before, when we first started doing this, there was, there's this cool technology that that news crews use like news remote vans when they do like these shows. Basically, they have like a pack that has different broadcasting things in it so there was one that we got that had six different cellular phone company signals that was built into it. That pack being dealt to like a satellite and then the satellite being back to a home base which would be like the production studio basically, and that's how they did like live remotes for like news things. And so my Corey and I are like, Why don't we just strap this backpack to somebody and put a camera on their arm and do inspections like this. And so that was actually how it started right so we literally had a guy that went out put a GoPro on his wrist attached him to this broadcasting equipment, and we were going with him through the house no look closer here put the camera like this. And that was the first iteration really of what And since then we've developed you know apps and things around it to make a lot easier but we basically fly someone to wherever the location is. So if it's in the middle of North Dakota where you have to drive three hours after an airport that's where they go. They're there in person, and then you have somebody on the back end like myself or one of our senior consultants that are basically working with them to go through the process to make sure that we're, you know, now missing stuff. Wow, that's like I said this is I think the future because we do have this need for people who are knowledgeable, like you and your team with our patients, because most of the time this is the missing piece of me helping people get well. I think like your first experience in mind to they do an air sample and they're like everything's fine. Now, just to be clear and I'd love for you to talk about this I'll just tell my opinion, air samples not bad it's one piece of data I think it's a part of a thorough investigation. But what we find is the spores don't often, especially the toxic hidden molds they're not in the air very high quantities. So often you miss that it looks pretty good. So what's your thought about the testing and kind of the realm of what you would like to see to really make sure besides a good inspection because what you just said is actually the number one thing. It's the brain that's actually thinking about what's going on here and not just the sampling because I've had many patients. They don't inspector everything's fine 234 and on the fifth or sixth, they find a massive issue that everybody else missed. Yeah, it's so common to a lot of the stories that people we work with, don't necessarily find us right away kind of comes through that same thing. So I'm the testing thing it's your 100% right first off you have to know where you're testing right you could use the best tests it's ever been created in the wrong place. Right. And so I kind of equate what we do to kind of what you do right the home is a living system there's not one test that you would run to tell you everything is happening in the body and the same thing is for us for the house. Different tests have their strengths and weaknesses. Our goal is to understand the strengths and the weaknesses where the gaps in an air sample which I'll talk about in a second, and then how do we fill those gaps with other tests. So the thing is how like a really full strong story and understand what's going on. So the thing with air sampling. I bash our samples a lot but then you have to caveat it about like well it's not everyone but you know but you have to get this across an air sample in the middle of the room is a complete waste of time. It's just a complete waste of time. There's a lot of reasons for this. It's a snapshot in time it doesn't account for everything you talked about. So we have kind of known this so for a year while we were on the field I just did this internal study So if I thought there was mold in this wall I say there was like one of the five signs we talked about this wall so I would do a cavity test inside of this wall which means little hole in the wall to through the wall test behind the wall see what's actually at the source level. I would then stand right about here which is about three steps away and do an air sample pump at breathing level to understand my air quality 80% of the time when there was something here this said nothing. Yes. So that is that's the problem with air sampling so the problem is that gets exponentially less affected the further away from the source you get. Now the pro of air sampling is if I met this wall and there's no mold growing on the front of it. How would I know that it's back there there's no way to know that it's back there. So the closer you get to source what air sample does for you is it allows you to actually get a better picture of what's going on when there's not something on the visible surface for a mold piece right so if you could get as close to source as you think that it is do an air sample there in an isolated space or in a wall cavity is actually the best test that you can use for identifying source when there's no surface growth somewhere. So it at the same time could be the best option of a test you can use and be the absolute worst option of a test you can use depending on where it is. Love that because I agree I think there is a place and time, absolutely for good air samples and again knowing but you have to have a brain behind the thought process of where you're looking just like you said this first the five sample of the five hidden sources. I don't really know what they're looking for because that's the key is not just cameras and fancy gear and air sampling. It's the mind just like what I do to it's like that detective work that we do to figure out where the sources. So I really like that the other thing I want to mention I mentioned this for and you well know this but in the air typically those large scores what we will allow things that make us sick are these VOCs, these volatile organic chemicals or compounds. We froze for a second but I think we're good. Okay. I kept talking so what I was going to say is those those volatile organic compounds which are the toxins that are produced by mold number one are usually causing more illness in the patient. That's not what we're testing in air samples, or even cavities so sometimes the mold is behind there producing some really nasty toxins, and that's in the air it's invisible it's like a fume, and we're testing for spores which are not readily available in the air so that can be part of the difference to. Yeah 100% and like, and in addition to that. The score is such a small is so funny like we all know mold for such a small piece of the equation. The fragmentation that breaks off of the mold colonies are way more problematic than the actual score that's coming off. There's so much smaller in size, and there is such more higher amount than scores so, for example, if you had, you could have a fragment load that's 23500 times more. So that's the amount of load of scores that you find in a single space so let's say you found five store scores of saccubatria somewhere and you get literacy and some of the specters like that's not that bad, it's fine. That five scores of stack couldn't mean mycotoxins are coming off that you're not identifying. It could mean that the fragment load that's moving out of that wall could be 500 times five, right. I mean there's just so many other pieces of that, but the thing that that you kind of like spurred with me when you said that is, is the concept of like what a real inspection looks like right and how you're kind of looking for those things. The source is super important, because it's, it's where it's coming from so use this analogy all the time that the most like factory right so like, you're driving down the road there's a factory off the side of the road. You can't see what they're making inside there's walls around the mountains, right, but smoke is coming out of the top of the factory. That's the byproduct of whatever's being made inside, right. And so let's say you live in this house like a half mile away and you walk outside, and you're breathing this air pollution because you're so close to it right now some people might say oh man you live in it you have an air pollution problem where you live. Kind of not really you have a factory problem where you live right if the factory goes away the air pollution is no longer getting created. The problem is the air pollution is the toxins and the fragments and the video season everything you're talking about so that's more the exposure that's happening, but the source is where it's coming from right. So you have to know the source in order to stop that production from happening, but then we have to know what's the composition of the dust and the fragmentation throughout the house that is getting resuppended in our breathing so that does account for the toxins and bacteria toxins and all these things. So we can, we can clean it the right way we can understand how we have to address all things so there's kind of two pieces to this equation it's source factory creation, and then it's like dispersion and cross contamination has moved through the house, and say play the biggest mistake I see in both inspections and remediation is that they only focus on the first thing and they're not even really good at it. They're like, Oh, well the source is like right here to rip this thing out we're all good. Yet everything that's read through the house and possibly into air conditioning system and all these other things. That's all still there. You walk back into your house after you drop 10 15 grand on remediation. You're still sick. And you think remediation doesn't work. I got to burn my house down the Facebook groups are right. It's not true. It's just describing a case that I recently dealt with where there was like 36 you tell me it was significant we had someone come in, he had some community and remediate and then. Gosh, I think the number went up to 56 after and again it was just the cleaning after that was really the issue. And I think there was an additional source they found to. So, part of this I think even giving remediation a bad name or like one of the things a bunch of people had said we're like oh you're getting ripped off well that's not necessarily true but a good remediation is hard to find and also it costs what it's worth like you pay more to get cleaning. So let's talk I've talked about this before too but I think it's so worth repeating. First of all, the old army I don't even use that term I use qpcr but one thing that I can do for patients before they get inspection or during or with that is say okay do a qpcr it's not going to be the end I'll be all but I do feel like getting that it's what so for anyone listening qpcr all it is a dust sample of the dust in your home that is tested for DNA. So you can see our DNA testing of the mold so you kind of get a snapshot of what might have been in your home before or currently it's not perfect it doesn't tell you source you still need an inspector like Brian. But the key there I find is I can look at those and if there's like 2030 40 of stack your ketomium I know there's a maybe if there's five like you said, I know there's an issue and then I'll say okay now you need to really get someone in there and find the source. I don't understand that as maybe just a screening tool again it's not perfect but any thoughts on qpcr. 100% agree with you. It is. It has the strengths and weaknesses just like anything else in terms of under so we talked about where air samples miss out right they don't understand fragment load they don't they don't actually get the full load of what's going on it really under reports a lot of Yeah, or me or PCR or whatever it's the same thing it's it's going to show you that fragment load and dust reservoir so there's research papers out there about how to look at houses that basically say you have to be looking at the dust settlement in a house if you're truly doing an evaluation of what's going on in a house, because everything settles down in the in to the dust, and that's how a re exposure happens so so if you ever watched like Charlie Brown as a kid and there was like pig pen the dirty kid he always had this cloud of dirt around him. That happens to us as we walk around our house everywhere, all the human cloud effect, except you can't see it, but you sit down on your stuff you bump your tables whatever all this gets popped up. That's your direct pathway to exposure and re exposure and re exposure. So, I agree with you I, I actually like even beyond what you said I agree with you so much that it's a great screen test that we actually developed an interpretation around how to look at them, because you're right the army score and this is why you're calling it PC. Yeah, exactly. The army scores crap and I think anyone anyone who knows anything about it knows that if you actually got a hold of the original army study that was done by the EPA which took me five years to get a hold of by the way I feel like they're trying to hide. Wow. It says in the study just along without super getting into all the ifs and stuff about it literally says in there, the score has a plus or minus standard deviation of three. So, now you see, you know, you have to have a two in your house for it to be a healthy house I don't agree with that I know a lot, but you see that number everywhere because of where it came from. Everybody's honing on it needs to be a two needs to be two. Well guys that two is no different than a five and it's no different than a negative one so that one score can be in a super great house or an awful awful house, all on the same scoring system. It's crap it doesn't mean anything, but the technology behind it. And actually in our reports, I wonder if we started doing this at the same time, we'll put me but we put slash MSQP CR and like because we're not like 100 what I found is I would be I would call her because if I go to most of the sites that patients are ordering them from. They, it still says early so to tell the patients what to do, but then when they would talk to the inspector or someone who knows what you and I know, they're like, Oh, I mean it's terrible or they and so it would actually question my. It's nice for them to do that so I started saying no no this is not because I don't believe in the army but I do know how to look at those scores and tell them what they need to know based on some of those toxic molds and I really obviously like you do to wait some of the more toxic molds heavier so I could get five or maybe even a four which doesn't even score points on if I'm scoring hurts me, but I feel like I'm not sure this is safe we don't know yet but we need to look deeper. Yeah, and the interpretation is interesting right so the scores kind of all over the place the way they do the math doesn't make sense so like we would see these come in. And you would have a score that was really high, let's say but then when you looked at it actually looked at that because now the math work, and on the flip side you'd have a score that looks really low, but the overall load in the house was just astronomical and so it was just super confusing and so something that we wanted to do we spent like eight months on this last year. So went through every inspection we did for the last three years, because we do armies at the site but we're also doing source testing so this is your me tested in the house. How many sources were in this house was their mycotoxins in this house was their bacterial issues all tied back to this army that we could compare out, we went through. We looked at over 4000 samples across those three years that we did, and we actually figured out a way to interpret army in a way that gives you some sort of contextual relevance of what's actually going on in your house because the reason that that people do armies at the end of the day they're doing them because they kind of want to have an idea I'm like, it's my house and issues and it's truly a screen. Exactly. That's exactly what I feel. And for me it's like if I see a massive load of something that I find in there you're in and I actually match it I'm like, Okay, this fits the data that I'm collecting go call someone to help you. So we never stopped there but it's just the other thing I find if someone's by now so renting and they don't have a lot of options to go deep like in our market nowadays. Sometimes they can do an army and get you know a little bit of data before they put down the deposit on a home 100% totally totally I've had people that do that too. The problem is that not everyone has you or me to look at their stuff right so then they get these things they don't know what it is. So by kind of we kind of like figured out an algorithm to go through and when you did it and you sorted it by this new sort of ranking system we created when you did a sort all of a sudden was less mold sources in the house less less more more more more more all the way down and it actually made sense for what we were finding in the house. So we ended up calling it the army code because we felt like we cracked the code for me. And so we put it at army code.com so it's a way to interpret your army so you still run your army. And then 27 bucks we made it really cheaper people to get into you put all your army information in it immediately compares it to our entire analysis database and it tells you where you fall you can expect nine sources of mold growth in a house on average with that looks like this, all of a sudden that's information that's usable I'm looking to get a new house. Yeah, I run an army as a screen. And this says, Oh man with armies like this. I could expect nine areas that I basically need to remediate in this house. I don't want to do this one. Right. Or if you're looking in your own house you're trying to decide do I invest in a full inspection. Is there even a problem. Now you do you like, oh there's a, there's 12 sources on average in this house and on average Michael toxins were found 20% of the time in the house. I think we really need to dive this right. That's the breakdown that we basically created out of all of the data from all the samples we did to try to put some like real context to what these very like confusing army tests are, you know, I love that I didn't know. That's tremendous or me code.com. That's super easy just enter every you know just directly in the order everything that's entered on your army pop it out and immediately tells you like where you fall on what your expectation looks like. Oh, well done I didn't this is fantastic great. I love it because again it's super practical. And again I see patients I can interpret there's but there's a, you know just like you there's probably 500 and even 1000s more that aren't able to see me and they have or you know they have questions so this is a great great resource for them. What else have we not covered that that are common questions and problems that you see we've covered a lot already. Any other little tips or tricks or things that. I mean so we talked about the signs of stuff. So people want to go just do this right when you get off literally go through your house, open up every sink cabinet that you have. And look and see if you see any of these things that we talked about is there any bubbling in the bottom is there just coloration is it work is it cracking odds are there's at least. And this is kind of the first thing that it's just so common right but just because it's common doesn't mean it's okay it just means it happens a lot so we need to be more like hyper aware that stuff not like diminishing of it you know. But that's like a super easy thing I think the thing to keep in mind is like understand that these problems come from water issues but the water issues don't have to be big water issues don't be floods like we think about right so if we kind of reframe how we're looking at these like water events in the house. We can be a little more aware where issues might be, and then, and even that issues might be getting created and we can start kind of being a little more proactive and how we handle ourselves and how we decide to move forward. So the easy thing is if you go through and see a couple things or your doctors telling you, I always say this to. If your doctors telling you that you're being exposed when they're seeing in a clinical test, believe them. I think like their tests are showing what they're showing for a reason, right so to you know to understand that component of it and not push back on that and then could always do an army kind of what you said is a screen you could process the army code if you want to and get a sense for what it means and ease yourself in to what this process looks like. So you feel really comfortable with with kind of we're going and have some validation. Yeah, and I want to repeat you cut out for just a second and you said if your doctor says there may be mold, listen to them I love that I want to say that again so everybody can hear me if your doctor's telling you that you have a problem you have a mold problem alright like they're running these tests, they're seeing it in your body, they're not making it up. And we just think oh my house is clean, there's no mold anywhere like listen if they're seeing it it's probably there. And instead of like pushing back I think you should maybe like, you know, put some faith in the people you chose to to help you know. And I want to frame that on the other side because a lot of you. Brian and I work in the world of ICI and EHS and some of these organizations that train doctors and remediators and inspectors to really understand the illness and I'm part of that teaching so as Brian. But there's a lot of doctors out there that I think some of you in the chat even today we're saying well my doctors didn't even believe that mold can cause illness so on the other side. And you believe that you are sick from your home and you think that you suspect mold might be an issue. Find someone find a doctor find an inspector like Brian to help you because this is treatable. It's complex but it's very treatable. And the worst thing is for you to be suffering and ill and think that there's an issue and not have someone to help you. I mean, we obviously don't have time to get in there but the, the emotional and sort of psychological effect of all this stuff. I mean, it's hard. It's really really hard. I think the point of all this is while it's hard, it's doable, right it's not like this death sentence, you know that you're dealing with it's very doable. Yes, and you and I are living proof because we've both been through it and on the other side. Awesome information. I think we're going to have to do part two because there's, there's more to talk about everybody where so first of all army code if you want to check the army but where can people find you where can they consult with you. Tell us where to find you. Yeah, so, so our company is companies we inspect that's my company name so our website is yes we inspect calm. So if you have questions in inspections or anything like that we basically have a form fill out give us some information kind of by your situation and we can start the process there. The other good spot is you know Instagram probably you know I put out a lot of stuff there is very easily accessible. I also have a special phone that I have specific for people to text me on. So another story I can talk about another day, but you could get that number from Instagram you could text into the phone I do my best I carve out the numbers today to try to answer people on text lines so I try to try to do what you can, you know, but, but we get there I think I think the big takeaways that the army code piece I think it's really important for people. And then, you know, obviously, if you want to talk with us more we're around. You are and you're pretty like I said you're putting out great content so kudos to you it's so needed I so appreciate you and I appreciate your time today. And like I said we'll have to schedule a part two. Thank you so much.