 Hi, welcome everybody to another coaching focus. My name's Lee Fletcher. I'm head of content development at the Coaching Manual. And as always, I'm joined by Stephen Crane. How do you crane it? Good afternoon, Fleck. You'd like your new hairstyle today. Very nice. Cheers, mate. Cheers, mate. Fresh look, slick. And we're joined by Nick Gumbert. How are you doing, Nick? Good, thank you. Fantastic. Where are you working at the moment, Nick? Where are you coaching? Yeah, I'm the girls' academy director and for Lee program. OK, fantastic. And where's that? Is that in Los Angeles? Yeah, it's a suburb area of the LA area. Brilliant. Fantastic. So we'll jump straight into it, Nick, as we always do. Get the ball rolling, as we like to say. So I'm just going to share my screen with you guys. So the session that we're going to watch today is dribbling and running with a ball by Andy Martino. And the first practice that we're going to watch is the warm-up technical practice, if you like. It's a carousel. Just to give you a little bit of background on the session. So it's 15 minutes long, 10 players, three balls. But obviously have loads ready at your disposal. And there is a goalkeeper in this one. I think it's quite an interesting practice. And it's 30 by 20 or 35 by 20, just adjusting the measurements to suit your players. So let's get straight into it. This person here is going to go across there. When the shot's on, you're going to shoot against Matt. And obviously it's quite close. But when you're smashing the ball in, I want just a nice pass shot into the corners, if we can. Right, that's that one. These guys, you're going to pass into this player, who then works around, gives it back, and it's a little combination. And then you go back again. So your end product there is your combination. Your end product there is your shot. These three, if we've done a pass and we've done a shot, what else will we have in the game? A cross. So we're going to cross the ball to that player there, and so on, yeah? Good save on your feet. Dary's there, good. Nice and quick distribution here, then, Matt, yeah? Good decision, Matt, you're like it. There you go. Can you pop it out? Good. Play shot there, is that, yeah? Good movement, Tommy, like that. OK, good. Stop there. Right, OK. So what's the biggest thing you've got to do ahead in this session? You've got to be looking around. What's that nice word we like to use? You've got to be scanning around. You've got to be so nosy in here to know exactly where the ball is at every single moment of time, yeah? Obviously, with the dribbling, what are 3M products? Which one of them was a shot on goal. So we had the keeper to involve the keeper in the session. So obviously, we had a goalkeeper tonight. We had one which was a combination player around a mannequin. And then the third one was the cross. So they were actually running down the side of the pitch. Not a huge cross because they're still warming up and getting used to the ball. But it's just getting them into the right frame of mind, obviously, to get their head up and see the cross as the end product. Come on, Matt. Think of your start position here, Matt, yeah? Would you stay on the line all the time? There you go. Good boy. Make it smaller. And then, obviously, in that session, we added the neutral player in the middle. So again, which keeps saying the pitch of change is in the game so much. We can't just have them running the straight line because the pitch of those changes is another player there. Can they use them? It's their decision. Now Aaron is going to be the magic man in here. He is the Iniesta. We want him on the ball as much as he can. So if you're running with the ball, you might get your head up because it might be Aaron's there. You start running through, Tommy. Say, no, I'm Aaron. Pop it in, Tommy. It may be now I play a little set in there with you. And then he gets around. And then I'm back in here. Then we're back in for the next person, yeah? It could be, yes, Macca. If you're dribbling through, we can pop the ball into you. It could be, yes, Dary. You're dribbling through, start dribbling. I say, Dary, good. There we go. And I can play a little combination there, yeah? So you've got to work in here, play in the combination. Off you go. Play. And that's what we're trying to stress all the time is their decision. It's not our decision. We just set the pitches and let them work out the puzzles themselves, really. So that was the first practice. What did you think of that, Crane? Yeah, I think just starting off saying there was quite a lot going on. There was quite a lot going on and quite a lot happening. It was chaos. Okay, which was absolutely brilliant. I think at the start of the practice, I was trying to work out exactly where players went. But I think you've got to see it in three different, you know, three different situations. So you've got one, which like you said, is just a passing and dribbling exercise. Then you've got one which is where you've got to dribble across the pitch. And then you've got one which is dribble to shoot, which is great. The thing that I really like about it is the rotation. So a lot of the time you see practices, especially when you're working on dribbling or all that passing, then it's combining. And it's very structured. That, the players got three different situations. They got to experience three different things. It wasn't just dribbling to cross or dribbling to shoot or dribbling to pass. It was a bit of everything going on. The first I was questioning why the player was running across the goal in front of the keeper. But then when I actually watched it, it was actually, I think that the coach mentioned it, Andy Martin mentioned it. It was more about the scanning and about what's happened. So should you say, should you get more close to your feet or should you get out to the space, which was really good. I really liked the way that he coached it as well, because it's quite a hard topic to coach that because there's a lot going on and it is chaos and there's so many different little coaching points in there. I think you've got to let it flow naturally. Of course, it's always great if you get your key coaching points out. But I think that one's a bit more guided discovery for the players. I think the players can almost experiment for themselves and whilst Martino was going around and giving them little tips here and there, it was almost a chance for the players to actually try things out and explore it, which is really good. Final point that I thought on, it was a really like the player reference and I actually had a chat with another coach about this couple of weeks ago about referring to professional players and how it helps younger players coming through. How you need to be careful with that, because if you're getting players who don't watch a lot of soccer and you're referencing players, that's when you need to be careful. But normally the top players in the game people know about. So if you're referencing, and yes, the name are Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Rooney, whoever it's going to be, the players can get the feel for it and almost get the picture for it. So I really like that. I think that's a massive part of the coaching session really. But no, I thought it was a really, really good practice. There was loads going on. I would like to watch 10 minutes of that to see how we develop them, how we continue to progress it, but really, really good start. Yeah, before we come on to you, Nick, I want to ask you, Crane, and Nick, you can obviously jump on the back of this question as well. What is the point of the referencing of players and what is the reason why we would use a reference of player? So I think it works in two ways. Obviously when I used to play and people used to say, watch the clips of this type of player, you get to pick up things straight away. So from the more elite player point of view, or sort of say 13-year-old plus, you get to watch that player, maybe YouTube or whatever it's going to be. And you watch what they're good at and you try and put that into your game. So that's one of the reasons why. I think for younger players like this, it almost gets the brain going. So it's almost like, okay, if I say, can you be like Neymar, what does Neymar do? What's he great at? He's good at holding the ball. He's good at dribbling. He's good at skills. He's good at taking players on 1v1. And it's just almost a subtle way to paint the picture in a player's mindset. So he was on about the magic man in there, wasn't he, in the ester. Now that's what type of player he was. So if players have watched him, they know he's sharp, he scans all the time, he's nice and bright on the ball, he can play one or two touch ball. I think referencing players for the younger age groups is just about putting a picture in the mind. I think that's all it is. As you go through it, I think it can be a lot more detailed where they can watch clips and try and put what their pros are good at into their own game to develop their own game, really. Brilliant. Nick, what's your point on the referencing of players and then in general about the session, what kind of things did you take away? Sure. I think referencing players, it's interesting in terms of the culture you're in, right, because in America, the nine to 12 year old girl, for example, because I'm the director for our girls elite programming, they usually have very minimal reference or maybe they know Alex Morgan. So it is interesting using those references because it's just different space that they're involved in, right? So I think unfortunately in our environment here, you just don't use the same references or maybe you find ways to introduce those references and you give them opportunities to be more aware of them. Is it off the field opportunities that coaches create? So there does become a reference point because as we know, unfortunately, our players usually don't watch enough of the game, especially the nine to 12 year old, especially female athletes in general. So I think the more opportunities coaches can do with their players off the field to create those references versus create excuses of, well, I can't use that, how can you use that? How can you reframe that situation? So it becomes an opportunity versus a setback. Yeah, with regards to the session itself, I'd pick back off Steve in terms of, I like the fact that there was decision making in various pieces that wasn't just a very straightforward, with regards to you have to do this, right? There has to be decision making ball because every action in a game has a technical component and a decision making element. So I really catered to that idea of how can you integrate versus isolate as much as possible? I think that's a really important piece for coaches. Obviously Andy is spot on with the opportunities and situations that he created. So that's a big one for me. He referenced scan, right? And I think creating that terminology, if you ask about references, I think terminology is one that I tried to remind our youngest director and our coaches in general, create that terminology. That becomes a norm for your players. Scan for us at nine to 12, can you scan the plan, right? And now it's little trigger words that coaches and the staff can say, this is what we do. Not saying it's the right way, but it's our way. And I think that's important for youth players to have. But again, he creates a progression within that piece of passing versus dribbling. It's not just, again, isolating dribbling component. And then the part that I really liked, I think Steve already touched on this, but going to goal straight from the get-go, especially with this age group, giving him, I feel like besides the question of, are we gonna scrimmage? The second most asked question is, can we go to goal, right? Or something to that effect. And I think that's an important piece to build in as much as possible, allow kids to finish. Because again, as Steve referenced to, it gives them that freedom to just try it as they work on it. Again, you're not isolating saying, no, hit it wrong. No, did this wrong. You're just giving them those free opportunities to figure out within that piece. And then the instruction comes on an individual level. So. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, there was one term that he said as well, which I found a couple of terms. That's firstly saying, his job is just to set up the picture and then to kind of figure it out for themselves. And obviously both of you are touched on that. So I won't go down that road. But he talked about passing it into the goal. And I just wanted to really talk about that, about the differences of finishing, the types of finishing and why you would do something like that. I don't know if you want to touch on that, Nick, about passing into the goal rather than absolutely lambasting it into the back of the net. Sure. One reference that I try to remind players of, especially in those middle ages, the nine to 12, is exactly that. There's not a difference in technique, necessarily between passing and finishing. So now it's just the type that you want to use. I think the more we can build that toolbox and not have kids think it's that different. Those are important references as well. Because I think players tend to complicate things of, how are we going to finish? Well, if we've done our job as coaches and painted those pictures and put them in those environments, really they've worked on that technique numerous times. And now it's again creating those references, just like we create references for players, creating those references for the technical application of the game. And I think that's a very relevant piece that I think some coaches do overlook the simplicity of things because there is so much correlation. And sometimes we over complicate it to say, hey, we're finishing. And prior to that, you were, it was just a different target. So. Yeah. I think that's the thing in it. There's not much, there isn't much difference within the technique of passing between shooting. Obviously there are types of passing and shooting that are very similar and some of them are a little bit different. But the idea of it and being able to progress and we should always start with a pass before we go to the shoot. And I'm a big believer in that because if we can get the passing technique right, then the shooting becomes almost easy, if you like, and almost natural to it as well. Crane, how important is it then to start breaking down these types of techniques with such a young age like these guys? Because obviously there's so much going on in that practice. It's so, I mean, one of the notes I made was congested and chaotic. I mean, it was a little bit mad. And if you saw that when Andy Martino was explaining it, I had no idea what was going to happen until I watched the practice, which then became extremely clear. But how important is it then to simplify things especially in these types of exercises? Yeah, I think it's key. I think it's key if the players get it. But I also think going back to your previous question about the coaching before, how important it is to break the techniques down. I think a practice like this gives you loads of chances and opportunities as a coach to do that. Because not only do you need to stop the practice, like I said before, you can almost do a little bit of fly-by coaching. So you can comment throughout the sessions and because you treat it as three different stations. So one of them is dribbling across the field. One of them dribbling straight and one of them dribbling to get the shot away on goal. I think you can almost go round and fly-by coach and educate the players like, hey, what about trying this or hey, what about trying that? So for example, the players who are dribbling across the field have got loads of space and loads of grass. Hey, why not take figured touches out your feet and run with a ball rather than dribbling? For those who are one-on-one with a goalkeeper, they might want to keep it closer to the feet or whatever it's going to be. So I think you can break down the technique but like I said here, I don't think it's almost the practice to start really going into that technical detail and break it down. I think it's a lot more trial and error. Hey guys, there it is, go and try it. Are you not scoring goals? Well, what about trying placing it in the corner instead of smashing it? I think it's more Q&A, guided discovery type of coaching that's been applied for this practice. I think the practice almost sets the scene itself and we've already touched on it. I mean, there was an early part in that video where the attacker is going towards the goal, he's running, you know, and he's not stopping for anybody. He's going into his eyes, he's kind of in the back of the net and the kid comes across and as they're trying, they're just about to cross paths and the kid does a stop turn, a stop and then it goes again. So it knows little techniques that he's recognised that this kid is not stopping, he's going to goal. So he's ran with a ball, he's got it under control, stopped on top and then he's pushed out of his feet again. Without even coaching that, Martino's got that outcome straight away. He knows there's going to be loads of different types of traffic in the middle. Kids are going to want to shoot. You know, when they get closer to the goal, they get excited, even though maybe a little bit anxious and you want to just get there and score. But the other kid has to be extremely aware of what's going on around them in terms of, right, might have to just drop a shoulder here and go to the left or to the right or I might have to turn on these little different things. And I think the practice in that sense does a really good job. If I'm honest with you, like I said before, I thought it was really, really complicated and he's just made it a complicated practice so, so simple just by dividing them into teams, giving each team a clear instruction and then off they go. And that's what I really liked. What about Martino as a coach, then Nick and his demeanour and the ways with the players and things like that. What kind of tips do you think coaches can take from him? Because we've had Martino on a few times now and then and we always say that me and Steven are very, very fortunate to know Andy quite well. So what do you think coaches can take away in terms of how he is and the way he deals with players? Creating a complex, not complicated environment, right? Because it engages players from the start. And I think it can be so easy for disengage players by isolating environments. And I think that would be a big one. Again, it goes back to that integrate versus isolate idea. I think the way coaches give instruction or information, Steve alluded to it a couple of different times of making things individual. You don't need to stop the whole team when one or two players are not applying a technical piece of the game, especially in those ages. So those two things stick out to me. And then kind of on that complex environment is the decision-making component. I think too often that gets overlooked. You think of the best players in the world at the highest levels still only have the ball, three-ish percent of the game, right? So the reality is what's happening the other 97% in terms of decision-making. I think too often youth coaches will just take the technical piece away, say, okay, we're gonna work on this. And in all reality, if you isolated it either or, why not isolate the decision-making piece based on the fact that that happens so much more of the game, right? And so that would be my other takeaway is give them the decision-making components versus saying dribble from this line to that line, or you're always controlling the situation in which the kid is trying to do. Yeah, right. What would you take away from Martín upgrading? I think it's a personality trait, right? I think especially when you work with younger players as well, you can get crazy bog down of all this coaching instruction, coaching points. But I think the key thing that you need to remember when you work with young players is get the players having a great time. If the players are turning up to practice and they're smiling and they're having a lot of repetition and you're guiding them, then they're gonna develop, right? Especially at that age from nine to 12, if they have a lot of chances to try something, they have correct coaching points and you're kind of guiding them and letting them work out for themselves. But the turn-up really wanting to go, really wanting to practice, you're gonna probably develop players, right? So Martín, I think that's what he's good at. And I think you see, for those who have watched him as well at conventions and stuff, the type of personality that he is, he connects with the players straight away. And at this age, if you connect with the players personally, it helps you get a lot more coaching points, I believe. If the players want to play with you, players enjoy your practice due to the set-up and due to the repetition in there, they're gonna gain more knowledge. So I think, you know, I think he's one of the best, probably the best in the country, that age group. So obviously, I think the personality traits is what I would say, for me, definitely. Yeah, definitely, absolutely. Fantastic, so let's move on to the second part of the session. So the practice, the skill practice. So still with the same theme, looking at running with the ball and dribbling. And in this practice, it's a 6v4, so three out-the-up players and a goalkeeper versus six players. And the field is split into thirds and there's two kind of safe zones here. 10 players again, 20 minutes longer, just having the rear balls ready. But I'm gonna let Martino explain this one for us so we can kind of get the full picture. There, obviously, we've got a goalkeeper. Down there, we've got a target goal. We're gonna have five attackers, two defenders. One defender, one attacker. Right, the way the game works, after a minimum of three passes, so we can go one, two, three, you can then break out whenever you want. So you can either dribble out, you can run with the ball out if you've got big spaces, or you can pass the ball and join in. So that creates a 2v1 in there. So if this player then goes from there into there, we've now got two against one to score against Matt, yeah? The defenders, if you win the ball, you score in the target goal. You score two goals, you win the game, and become the attackers. Attackers, you need to score five goals to win the game. Can you see this yellow area just there? Can you see the yellow area that a safe zone? Good, so that will encourage you to dribble or run with the ball into these areas. Cannot be tackled in there. Two, three, can we break out? Excellent. Okay, stop there. Good decision by Dixie to dribble. Good decision to shoot. Of course it was, we scored. Fall in. We had a box there with a 5v2. We had safe zones as well. So obviously that gave them confidence and they needed to drop into there they could. We had the wide safe zones to encourage them then to get their head up and look into the wide areas with a 1v1 in the second box, which again is the final third, and that's where we want them to be positive, take the players on, try and get the shots off. Good, Tommy. One, two, three. Good, Tommy. Play on. He's in, he's in. Okay, ball back here. Are we in the final third of the game here? Yeah, is he being positive by dribbling? Yeah, so that's a good thing, isn't it? Because if he does get passed, we've got a shot. But it's that decision now is, would it have been better to pop it off to Macca? Would it have been better to take the player? What do you reckon? Do you thought about it now? You're saying that because you didn't get passed in the moment, yeah? So that's good. So there, we might be able to pop it into Macca's Macca if he has a, he might even not want to touch. If he has a good first touch there, he's got a shot on. If Dary then you'd follow him, Dary. If the ball goes over there, it may be then we can support again and we can go from there. So then we've got our 2v1 in there, yeah? So that person's then gone into their 2v1. But now we've got this recovery defender coming in, creating, what we've got now? 2v2. We had players joining in to have a 2v1. We had recovery defenders create a 2v2 and then the next attacker come in to create a 3v2. So again, it's changing all the time and the decision making is changing again and again. Off you go, play. One, two, three. Fantastic. What's the score? 3-0. He's added a goal on for you. 3-0. Off we go. Okay, so that was the second practice, the skill practice. So Nick, I'll come to you first. What are your thoughts around the practice? First, loved it. Love the fact that he's already creating a number of situations so the kids can experience success, right? So that's a positive. It's positive because he doesn't designate who joins it's a matter of recognizing moments for who to join and how to join. Love the safe areas versus pigeonholing a player in a wide area to say you have to create wits and nobody can defend him. It gives him those opportunities to recognize who can go in there and when. I think that was a good little distinction that allows again the kids to make those decisions of when to go. There's incentive for the defending team, right? They know they're not gonna be stuck in there for 20 minutes. He gave him incentive of two goals and now you have the chance to become attackers. So those were probably my biggest takeaways. And then if I can just tag on to the progression piece, it's simple, but it creates a complex environment, right? Because now there's decision-making involved in 2B2s and in a 3B2. Again, the players have that freedom to decide when to dribble versus pass. Obviously that was one of his coaching points in the 2B1, but again, that's the game in a nutshell, but it doesn't matter to the players. It allows them to test different ways to find a solution. Yeah, brilliant. Karina? Yeah, I just think going back to the start of it, space and the setup was great as well. How many times do you see practices and they're always dead small and dead tight? And if it's a running with the ball towards goal practice, make it realistic to the game. Normally, if you're playing a 2B1 counterattack, there's always spacing behind, right? So first of all, it was great that Andy's obviously put loads of space in the practice. I also like the goals I did. You know, I'm like, for my goals, if you've got them, use them, why not? So that was brilliant. I like to see the goalkeeper and the goal and then the target goal relevant again. And I think it touches on the defending aspect of it as well as rewarding the defenders as well. Nick mentioned it there. If they're working hard and running around, we all know what it's like as a player. If you're the one who's chasing, it's horrendous. But if you have a goal at the end of it, okay, if I'm regaining possession, I could score brilliant. It's probably worth why I'm working hard now. So I think managing the practice, that helps massively. I really liked the way he allowed the defenders to play on. So how many times do you see an attack versus defense practice, the defense get the ball and the coach, stop there and it starts again. If I'm a defender in that practice, I'm not going to concentrate. I'm thinking, do you know what, coach? I don't care what you say, I'm just going to ignore you. I can't be bothered running around again. So I think with him saying play on, it gives the defenders again something to play for. So to keep a regained possession, defenders could play out and try and score huge. And especially when you're managing players, I think that's great. I really liked the way he put a score on it from the start. You know what I'm like with competition as well. I think competition should be in practices. It should be in a lot of practices, pretty much 90% of them for me. So straight away, he put competition on it. So five goals to win versus two goals to win, get out there and play. So you're a player, you've got a clear objective now. You've got a mindset of what you've got to do. Brilliant, fantastic. And the final point about it was, there was no condition where you had to do something. You give them the option, Nick mentioned it before. You give them the option, can you dribble? Can you rub with a ball or can you pass? It wasn't, you have to dribble through the third or you have to pass into the final zone to join. It was watched right at that moment. And it wasn't, you have to make three successful passes. It was minimum of three. So if the time's not right to go and break through, regain possession, then you can try and break through. So I think there's a lot in that practice and there's a lot of talk from it. And sorry, I'm waffling on there, but fantastic practice, really like the way you progressed it, Nick mentioned it. It makes it real to the game. It makes it a lot more real for the defenders to recover it. So really, really like it. So what is the purpose, in your opinion, Nick, of the minimum of three passes? Because there's lots of debate on minimum maximum passes, minimum touches as well, you know. So what is the purpose in this particular practice? Do you think that there's a minimum of three passes on there? Movement off the ball and combining when you're in numbers of situations, I think it can have its benefits. Can't say I'm a big fan, but when you're in a 5-2, it becomes too easy, right? To just penetrate into the next area of the field that you're going to goal. So it forces players to make decisions again of how are we going to combine and build to get into that next area? Yeah. And your opinion on that, Krainix, I know you might have some thoughts on this. Yeah, of course, I'd like to go back to Guilet on this one. I think this is a good question for Guilet and Spain as well, but to me, yeah, I definitely agree. I think it's almost, at that age group, it's challenging the decision-making of where and how to go, rather than saying you have to do it. I think because if you put the passes on it, yes, it's all working on the combination, but it's almost challenging the players again, the decision-making of, okay, when's it right to go and how do we go? Is it right to dribble? Is it right to pass? One thing that I would like to progress that is because I'm not a massive fan of it as well, like, you know, like that Nick said, then I'm not a huge fan of saying you have to do something because in a game, you don't have to do anything. If it's right to dribble, you dribble. If it's right to pass, you pass. But something that I would like to do is progress that and put another defender in, make it five against three, but start from the defender's goal. So where the small target goal was at the end, the coach of the balls start there, and then the players have to start there, but they have to play in and they can play into the room whenever they want. That makes it, again, a bit more directional, a little bit more realistic to the game and take away the condition that you have to make three. What I would say is you have to make one. So you have to play into that central zone and then it's life and then it's like a game. So if you want to turn on the half-turn, dribble and go quickly, fantastic. If you want to be slow, build up, Billy, as well. So that's what I would do and it's just another progression to it, really. What's your thought, honestly? No, I think the minimum of the passes, really, just tries to get a little bit of control, I think, from Martino as well, is that, you know, if you don't have any minimums, it just basically goes into that end zone every single time and just becomes quite scat-y. So there's an element of control from Martino, even though he hasn't specifically made that very clear in terms of I am controlling this part of the practice. And then it allows him to kind of do what you guys are talking about. I love that selection that he gives you. You can dribble, you can run with a ball, you can pass it in, it's entirely up to you. And then obviously... Sorry, jumping in. Do you think from your point of view there, then, that condition helps him get his top of the count and helps him create situations, wear a concoction, get him to keep up with that, you know? Yeah, it has to, because otherwise, I mean, you could kind of get the topic out, but you think about it, if you've got five players and one stood next to the final third, you just pass to that player and every time they're just going to run in with a ball and that's it. You know, it's kind of over. So, yeah, I think he's allowing his topic to get out. So he's having those little bit of combinations, but like you guys are saying, he's then saying, right, well, you've got the opportunity now to pass dribble or run with a ball, but it's your decision on what you want to do to then enter the final third. I think as a session, I want to come back to one of the things, but I'll give my opinion first, is I love the session, I think it's brilliant. I've done this with open-age players from playing out from the back, playing 8v6. So the goalkeeper and a neutral player, 6v6, the team has to play out past the halfway line and then there's a 2v2 and then one of the players can go and join in 3v2, they score, and it comes back the other way, they can attack 7v6. So there's loads of variations of this that you can do and you can scale this all the way up from, you know, these kids who are experiencing it to all the way to first team level. And I think it's one of those sessions that you can do and quite rightly, many coaches do because there's so many aspects to it. I think then creating that 2v1 situation before you put the progression in is kind of magic for me because 2v1 is probably the most kind of used pattern or sequence of play that you'll probably find because it's probably the most difficult to defend against. It is almost impossible for any defender to defend against a 2v1 because you either go with a ball which then leaves the man or you go with a man and then it leaves the ball. So it's almost impossible. And I love that about that practice that it changes very quickly from this short, sharp possession exercise, overloaded, and then now we're going, breaking lines, being aggressive, you know, getting them on the back foot, trying to turn defenders, trying to be creative. Can you create 2v1s? What are your runs like? How are you supporting lines? And then it just goes into another dimension, even though Marty knows not gone down that line, but it goes into another dimension of coaching. And that's why it's so good. The only thing I didn't get, and I absolutely don't think I understood it, it's not that I don't like it or like it, I didn't understand the free zones. Like I didn't understand the purpose of that. And Nick, you dropped on to that and you mentioned that. And I wanted to get kind of your guys' thoughts on the free zone. I personally didn't understand why it was there. And Nick, I know you started to elaborate a little bit. So could you just explain what you thought were around that free zone? Sure, because he didn't make it an incentive, right? It wasn't, you get any additional points to go into those spaces. I think the benefit to giving players those areas is I think so often coaches will use channels and just say, yep, you're on the right, you're on the left and they're locked in. I think that's a massive drawback because kids never have to decide when to go wide, right? Versus that one, it rewarded them with no opposition, allowed to go in those spaces to recognize, do I want to pop out there or not? Because I know, again, it's a space I can use to my benefit, but I don't have to use it. So agree, there's definitely that gray area and I can see where you're coming from there. I definitely like that twist and that would be something that I'll steal to propose to coaches to say, can you create those corner post-safe areas so you're not pigeonholing that 10-year-old into a wide area and they're getting two touches for the 20-minute game that there may be playing at the end. I did actually kind of think about referencing to the game and maybe if a player pops out and you're going that safe zone and even just the way it was created, it was like, I don't even know what shape that would be. It was a bizarre shape and it was on nine of the final third and it was almost like a rolled, it was like you could be almost like a turn on it, it was bizarre. And I thought maybe he's encouraging a player to go out to receive the ball in the free area and then turn into the zone and replicating a winger maybe driving on the inside. That was like the only thing I could think of. And you know what it was, Lee? You know what it was, I think it was just there basically. I think because there's a 5v2 and these players are technically good, it was too simple and easy for the players to get out. I think if you put a 5v4 in that practice there, you might find it harder to break through. So I think that is exactly like you said, it could be a winger, but when I would relate it to the game, I thought it's almost like a number 10, dropping off the defenders to get on that half turn and break and play forward quickly. So I think, I don't know the shape, Martino would just try to be clever, probably he's going to kill me for that, but the shape was just the shape. But I think the actual space was a really good idea to drop players in, to get players to drop back in, receive it on half turn, but then they have to get at the defender as well. I think that's exactly what we just touched on there. I think that's why he was trying to do it. So you're talking more of the player in the final for dropping into the space, rather than going into the space from a deeper position higher? Correct, yeah. And I think it didn't look necessary in that practice because the 5v2, they were breaking out all the time. If you put a 5v4 in there, suddenly you'll see players struggle to break through. So I think it's just that extra one to drop in the free zone without pressure, you can receive and get on the turn as well. I think it's also good, because if you're working with kids and you also get that young boy or young girl who's a dominant defender and they do bully people in a 1v1. So I think it almost adds a bit of that to itself. And actually, if you're struggling to protect and shield the ball, here's another option you can do, you can maybe drop off and get on half turn, square them up, and then see what magic you can produce a score of goal. So I think it can work. And I think I definitely, definitely like that idea. Then Nick was saying, when you just shoot them out wide, not realistic to the game, not realistic. It doesn't happen. It doesn't make decision making simple. It's just stand down and do it. So I like that idea. And I'm definitely gonna try it with my practices. Note I like too about that, the positioning of it is it forces the players, maybe that find themselves closer to that final third or that area they wanna get into, the answer is behind them. And I think that can encourage players to solve problems by moving away from the ball to break those lines, especially at those ages. It's hard to get them to solve problems with their movement without restricting them to say, you can't go to the ball. I think that was a well-placed opportunity to help players solve problems by going wider, but also get higher. And you don't always have to come to the ball to get on the ball to then penetrate to go forward. Yeah, yes. I would do only thing I would question about like is it was it necessary for that practice then? Sure. But you know, because like you're saying, Karine, it was five versus two, it was easy to get out. Yeah, and if you are gonna progress it, if you do have the numbers and maybe you can add it in, but for me, it wasn't really necessary in terms of that practice. But though now you're talking and you're explaining it and I'm understanding, I can see many benefits. You know, I'm thinking about trying to drag players out of the position, up at the free zone. Work with all the players, like you as well. Yeah, exactly. Dragging out to drop in and create, yeah. So creating all sorts of kind of issues. I just thought, well, I would say really maybe it was just a little bit too soon for that practice. But then again, you know, like you guys are saying, repetition is key. So if we can introduce it maybe at a younger age group, then we'll start to identify that as and when they play against more players in the practice but also as they get older and better technical in the games. So yeah, brilliant. So we're coming to the end of the coaching focus. So Nick, the last question is always to you. So you've watched the practices and you've had a discussion with us and you've made some changes to that practice and think, you know, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna tweak this for my players. What would be the next practice or next session that you're going to deliver in that next week or in a couple of days time? Yeah. My mind goes straight to using turning and incorporating that within the dribbling component because that's such a key one when you're solving pressure and manipulating where is pressure coming from, I think is a big one. So maybe staying on that same topic of dribbling but giving players maybe some situations where maybe I create where the defender's coming from. So they have to solve that problem. Is the defender on their back and they have to solve it on the dribble? Are they coming from the right or left? Because I think the very, the easiest way that a lot of coaches will just use is the defenders at front of them, right? And go run at them. So that would be probably a specific piece or direction that I would go with it for the next one is incorporating that skill set. Fantastic, brilliant. Well, as always, Karine, thanks very much for joining us today. Not at all, brilliant. Cheers, Nick, great to meet you. Thank you, likewise. Again, for Nick, for joining us, absolute pleasure. Thanks very much for your insight. It's invaluable for us to share these types of conversations, so absolutely brilliant. If you want to get involved at the coaching focus, you're more than welcome to. So you just send us an email at www.getinvolvedatthecoachingmanual.com and we'll endeavor to get you on the show next time. Thanks very much, guys. Cheers. Appreciate it.