 Welcome back. We are continuing our work on a proposed amendment to H 183. And I just want to make sure that I understood. Wilder whites testimony. And so we'll do if you are available. I know that your camera's been freezing so you don't have to turn your camera on but if I. Oh, okay. Well, great. Thank you. But feel free to turn it off if it if it does freeze again. So we heard some conversation about. I know at first when you testified you spoke about taking in 10 C online 17 of the first page, removing the word mental and then also on the second page. Moving on line six, the word mentally. And then we heard testimony from the states attorney's office and the attorney general's office concurred that they would prefer to leave the word mental in on first page line 17. But okay to to remove it on the second page and I think I heard you say that you would would defer to them on that that it's not your wasn't your first choice but that you would defer so I want to make sure I'm not mischaracterizing your difference. Since we, since we worked with you to get this far so I don't know the exact words I use but what I meant to convey was that in the spirit of compromise I can accept leaving the word mental and on 10 C and I appreciate that they they see the wisdom of removing mentally from 6a. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay so Michelle. Thank you. I was wondering if you could weigh in in terms of how that. If we were to do that. So to leave like the word mental in on page online 17 on the first page of the amendment, but removing it actually from current law on the second page of the amendment online six. In terms of drafting or. So I would recommend that if you're going to take the word mentally out in subdivision six I would also take out subdivision be what you're doing is you're making a just be a generic statements or that the person knew or reasonably should have known that the other person was incapable of consenting. So it's just doesn't, it's a little odd to then have kind of essentially the same language in the next one and say the same thing but say physically incapable. I think you just you. You strike a and B and then just have a general statement about incapable of consenting. So just for clarity, you mean six, you're talking six and six B and the second page. Yes. Yep. And also for clarity, did you say strike six gay and six B or just six B. I would just I would rewrite a new one I'd write a new a, and then I'd re letter and reorganize but a and B is on based on mental capacity B is on physical capacity, if you're going to take out mental might as well take out physical and then just do a job. You just froze Michelle. I can't tell because I can see myself talking. Back now. So is that is that because the definition includes mental and then separately physical for the definition of incapable of consenting. Well it is encompassed there but I also if you just if you if you imagine that what a would now say is new or reasonably should have known that the other person was incapable of consenting. I know that there's a new or reasonably should have known that the other person was physically incapable of consenting because a will encompass be. And by having be you're insinuating but not saying specifically that a is mental. You got it. Are you following me, or am I not explaining myself well. Can I can I follow up chair, Madam chair. Yeah, I guess. Would you still I guess though what's a little bit different is the language as far as the capable of resisting. I see that the capable of incapable of consenting to, but are we losing that component of this as far as the capable of resisting as opposed to declining consent. Yeah, I mean you can add in to 10 be the resisting if you want to add that in there. I would say that the capable of declining participation and communicating or resisting. I would say that the under the existing under six be there the way that it's drafted now. Michelle you. You froze again we can't also can't hear you. Yeah, she's back. Yeah we both frozen couldn't hear you and I, I'm also wondering what it does because because right now. The definition, you know, and in 10 on the first page and then and then second page where we where it's broken out there. It's somewhat, you know, parallel and so what happens when we when you condense them all into one and take those out. I don't know that matters or not. But also we didn't hear what you were what you were saying before we miss some of it. Can't hear you. Can you hear me now. Yes, yeah. Sorry, my internet keeps going in and out. I can go yell at my kids to get off their devices. So, you know, if you want to add the physically incapable of resisting you can put that up in 10 be. If you feel so that doesn't is that the 10 be language about physically incapable of declining participation in or resisting or communicating unwillingness to engage in so if you want to add the word resisting in there. I would do it there, but to me to just have the general catch all in a and then have be, you know, but I really sometimes as a drafter things are feel awkward to me but it's and feels important to people other folks who are reading it that that might feel as though they want it in there so I'll certainly take your lead I think it's it's not. I think you could leave be the way that it is but it would just be my recommendation to condense it. Okay, thank you. So, if. See states attorneys, Rory I don't know if you have any, have any thoughts we could also let Michelle draft it and actually have something to look at which might be easier but just in terms of prosecuting cases. I think Rory might also be frozen. I think it might be on the street from me, so we're probably on the same internet provider Michelle tell your kids to get off their devices so Rory can get on here. So, if Michelle if it's redundancy that you're worried about the other option if we get rid of mentally and just have a six a as a catch all is just to strike or declining consent to and leaving be in there just for that physical resistance, as opposed to the declining to consent, you know, to be able to communicate consent. Okay, I'd rather hear from Rory but that would be one of the options. Sure. Yeah, I think it distinguishes it enough that you could do that as well. Because I see that the resistance is a little bit of a different animal then than declining participation be it because you're mentally or physically unable and that's really what six AC going to for physical resistance is a little bit of a different animal but again really defer to where Rory is on this. Thank you, Rory. So I apologize this had some connectivity issues and had to reset. So again for the record states turn it up. So I thought that my recommendation would be and I agree with Michelle that you don't want to create surplus language in in the statute so eliminating. B makes sense but also then under the 10 be definition, adding in resisting to make sure that there isn't the loss of that so you're going to effectively communicate the same thing but just consolidate in one place. What it really does is it makes six a just a cross reference back to all of the 3251 10 definition which I think provides then again one one place rather than to where we're expressing what the standard is. Thank you. Martin and any committee members also in addition to Martin please let us know if you have questions for Rory or Michelle. So just a follow up question for Rory and in. We need that incapable of consenting really for what is currently the subsection 6D correct and that that's correct. All right, thank you. Any. Any other questions. Committee members. Well, did you have a make sure you don't have a question. I don't have a question. I think the bill continues to get continues to get better. Great. Well thank you. So, I have out Michelle if we give you a chance to to draft this so that way we have something to look at I think it's easier. The bill as I said is in appropriation so. So we don't have to vote on this amendment right now this afternoon. So Michelle would we have something to look at tomorrow morning or we could have something to send out and yeah. So. I need some direction from from y'all about whether or not you want me to try to keep 6B and amend that or whether you want me to do a consolidated a and then add resisting into the definition I think either can work. And I don't know if Rory heard Martin's question on that. Rory. Okay. Yeah, unfortunately when representable on was speaking was when I cut out and so I didn't hear some of that until I reconnected I apologize. I had sent him a message in the beginning of the conversation of what I thought the fix could be. Yeah, I'm good either way my suggestion worry just was if you kept 6B. Like or declining consent from I'd be line nine on page two, and then 6B would really be about the physical resisting and then the 6A would be about really the ability to consent because of physical or mental issues but I'm, I'm certainly fine with either, either way. I think that makes sense and it might actually be then less, less heavy editing on what's presented. It's less, it's less editing but I guess what I, what I wonder is, and I don't know I'm just stream of consciousness talking here so is that by having the not, or physically incapable of resisting in 6D, but not having it in 10B. I don't know like I just there's a part of me that just wants to consolidate the inability to physically consent or resist or decline and have it in one place. And having it because remember these are, you know, you got your definition section and then 3254 has its own language. I just feel like it might be a little neater from being able to find what you're looking for. But I don't feel strongly about that so. I would say that I'm a practitioner. Michelle is the legislative construction expert and that is a much more. That is a really compelling reason I think to do as she just suggested. Okay, great. Thank you so we do that and then let us know when you have something and we can get it posted. I'll work on it a little later this afternoon and I'll get something out to Evan either tonight or early in the morning so just, and I do have some time I don't know what your schedule is tomorrow. My schedule has been moving around a lot and I do have some time at the beginning of the morning. So anywhere I think from 930 to 11, so. Okay, so yeah I think it would be more around the 1045 ish because we have another another state witness that is presenting at nine. So, yeah, I think I'm going up. I still say up but I am going to appropriations with Selena on 183 at 11 but but as long as we could knock it out before then. Yeah, why don't we do it at. Actually why don't we say 1030. That work. For me. Great. Evan would you mind sending me an invite. Great. Well, thank you. Thank you everybody.