 Let's get going first. I want to thank everyone. It's not much pleasant of conditions out there for for moving about town So I want to thank everyone for joining us today obviously September has arrived and There has been a not insignificant build-up surrounding September For what may or may not be a Consequential month on the Israeli Palestinian front with the UN General Assembly Opening later this month. What we have done is jumped at the opportunity presented to us by friends especially from the Palestinian business committee for peace and reform and our friends Runder and George Salem who are here in the audience to Really take the entirety of a delegation that is spending a couple of days in Washington doing some meetings As representatives of different parts of Palestinian civil society including office holders from the business community We have an advisor to the Palestinian team. I'm going to walk you through the entire delegation In hurry is sitting next to me to take this group's presence in Washington and to put everyone up here on stage to run through some of the different aspects of What are the questions on people's minds and the way we're thinking to organize this is that I am Going to pose a couple of questions to each of our panelists to start this discussion off and then we can open it up for Q&A the first thing I want to do before I jump into that And in welcoming you to NAF to the American strategy program and to this event of the Middle East Task Force is use this opportunity to welcome my new colleague and co-director of the task force as of yesterday Layla Halal many of you would have Known I'm just a taller Who's actually in the audience. I think there's a hand at the back. I assume it's attached to a body Amjad has Has moved on to to Al Jazeera where here is the bureau chief of Al Jazeera English for the Americas but we have we've upgraded Amjad and Layla is someone who I Actually got to know in in circumstances not dissimilar to those where I'm at Amjad, which was when Layla Was for many years an advisor to the Palestinian negotiating team and Layla who is From here originally from Michigan at least And who completed our studies here at the in the US doing her LLM at Harvard Law School and has moved on To several things but the last number of years have been spent in the Middle East where Layla was in Ramallah and and afterwards in Amman mostly working as a Strategic advisor to the Unra their executive headquarters So I want to welcome you Layla and I hope people I hope people here will Get an opportunity to know Layla and Layla is going to be part of this conversation, of course And very much part of the day-to-day of the New America Middle East Task Force Let me very quickly and and I and I apologize, but I am going to do this very quickly run through Who we have on the panel today and I apologize, but I am going to do this from I haven't committed Everything to memory of the backgrounds of our panelists and and not everyone I know that well. I'll start at this side of the table with Hebrew Hussaini who I do know from previous Encounters Hebrew is the managing partner of Hussaini and Hussaini a law firm based in the Palestinian territories With a large domestic and clientele base. She has also Advised the negotiating teams in the past and has been very much someone who has written background papers and policy paper This has followed this closely Zahi Houri Absolutely, thank you Kim Zahi Houri is Here also in his capacity with the Palestine business committee for peace and reform Zahi is the President of the Palestinian beverage company. They're the coca-cola licenses He's very much a leading figure in the Palestinian business community serves on several boards including that of padico for people who are familiar with the Palestinian economic scene and He is actually a dual American citizen when we might draw on some of that when we get into the questions of how this might affect the US Moving on to Ambassador Hind Houri Ambassador Houri was actually a member of the Palestinian Authority cabinet in the past having responsibility for Jerusalem affairs and After that was appointed as the ambassador of Palestine in France She is an active background working with international development Organizations and is active in Palestinian society where she serves on the board of a number of local NGOs including a Ridge The people who know the Arab research Institute of Jerusalem the Sabil the Arab thought forum And I'm very pleased that we've got you here with us today So next to Hind we have was seen Cosmo was seen actually only got in this morning or late last night Wasim is a member of the Negotiation support unit, which is the policy advice unit to the Palestinian negotiating team He's worked closely with the president and with those leading the negotiations and I think just recently you completed your master in public administration at the Harvard Kennedy School and You are educated at SOAS in London Sorry London and half The Reverend Mitri Rahab is Joining us from Bethlehem where he is the pastor at the Evangelical Lutheran Church there since 1988 He's an author and someone who has spoken on the Palestinian cause around the world especially in Lutheran institution for many years and is very active in the NGO community in his local community and Finally, and this is who I'm actually going to begin with when we now move on to the substance Naphis Hussaini is the VP For digital business at CCC consolidated contractors company one of the largest Palestinian companies and Again someone who is very active in the business community, and I'm going to start with your permission with you Naphis Naphis I don't think it's a coincidence that This is taking place in September at the culmination of what at least some of us have been following Which is a two-year state building effort Undertaken by the Palestinian leadership, and I think many people said well, how do you do state building in the circumstances that you're in? But it's something that the PA leadership that the Prime Minister and the team have Really taken on board and and it's received rather high marks, but maybe you could tell us how you view what has been done During those two years where we're at today And is it sustainable? What has to happen next? And obviously I'm going to ask people to keep their Answers to these questions relatively short Just press on the mute And I we are live streaming and this will be up at NAF. So People do speak to the mic. Great. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for being here you Asked about what happened in the last two years Daniel and There has been a very disciplined approach approach to a very disciplined approach to building governance and institutions into the Palestinian fabric and And This has been consistently recognized by many assessments and conclusions of my third parties There's a there's a there are great reports by the World Bank and the IMF recently That really give the PNA very high marks for this How was this achieved? Well the state building program under the leadership of President Abbas and Premier Fayyad have given solid results We have now a good security framework Excellent rule of law governance structure economic development that has Displayed itself through a nine point one percent growth in the GDP and General improvement in the social services particularly in health and education Now these are very very concrete achievements But this is only a seed and not the whole fruit It really demonstrates that the existence The existence of a great potential within the Palestinians to unleash under this sound umbrella of governance a great human story for statehood and for Being able to participate in the world as a full member We still have a lot to do and the next round of achievements would be in the direction of making the Economy and growth structured and sustainable No doubt the correct Application of international aid and sound governance over the years 2008 till 2010 Have set the stage for this very nice figure of 9.2 percent growth of GDP in 2010 In addition to this you should note that there is a budget deficit that has been reduced from 1.8 billion in 2008 down to 1.3 in 2009 and it's just a little bit under 1 billion This last year in 2010 Now we have to make things more sustainable and we need the P&A further off aid and How do we do this and I'll offer some ideas as as a private sector. This is my role I'm in the private sector They're not new ideas, but their ideas that should be pursued with more vigor and for example We should try to create leaner and higher quality government services programs through private partner partnerships and privatization perhaps in conjunction with loan guarantees and political risk insurance People want to come and do business But if they don't have loan guarantees and political risk insurance, they'd be very very hesitant the other thing is you have to know that the Palestinians are very very literate people We're in the high 90s. We have an extensive pool of talent in Palestine. We have 45,000 university graduates annually We should mind this and we should get involved in some of the knowledge-based economies and export services from there and If the opportunity comes, I'll give you examples of such things that we have done as a company We should also encourage more SME involvement in targeting the manufacturing. Excuse me. Yes, if I can Just because we are going to be pushed for time with a big panel and Tell you what what's going through my mind as I'm listening to to to the set of impressive achievements I Understand that you support the the the likely action that the leadership will be taking at the United Nations All Palestinians and Daniel Why would you want as a pride as someone here speaking from the private sector perspective? Why would you want to put at risk? you know that While Palestinians may be supportive of the move It's not Congress is managing to curb its enthusiasm when it comes to To Palestine's approach to the UN and the Israelis apparently are also in the Larry David camp Why would you put this at risk? By taking this move right now at the UN Daniel are we expected to be any less human and be measured by any less Democratic values and and principles than anyone else out there Our aspiration is not just for a good economic prosperity Our aspirations for freedom for statehood for showing the world what we can do as a nation The Palestinians are known to be the builders of the Arab Gulf and we'd like to build our own homes as well It is time. We are ready for statehood Thank you Thank you Nafiz and I'm sure we're going to drill deeper into some of those issues of what the ramifications might be of this move, but but why don't we go for the jugular and go to the opposite end of the Table in terms of this UN move and I'm going to ask you Heber to just spell it out there for us What? And yeah, let me give it some context the group here Stating the obvious are here partly as Advocates of what the leadership is is is taking to the the UN taking to New York this month So I want to ask you Heber What is the leadership trying to do at the UN? Okay Thank you. It's good to be here with you all and thanks for this critical question I would say the leadership and the Palestinian people who support this move Have tried negotiations for over 20 years. We have been in conflict for over 60 years and We are we have reached at a moment in time when we are so ready as a country because we are we have all the attributes of statehood to seek The UN and to seek our bid to the UN Why are we doing it? It's not because we do not believe in negotiations Negotiations continue to remain and be our first choice So going to the UN is not our first choice And also it is not our last resort. It is not the last. We are still Looking for the opportunity to resume negotiations We we accept the American and of course the Israeli premise that a negotiated agreement is The approach to resolving this conflict. However, time is not on our side and With the facts on the ground that many of you are familiar with and the plus such as the settlements the borders the plight of the refugees in Domestically in the palestinian territories and in in the host Arab countries Jordan Lebanon in Syria I mean we've seen recently how the Palestinian refugees in the Syrian camp just innocently were subjected to You know killing because the path that the Syrians are revolting on the against their own government You mean they just happen to be at the wrong place So the these are the factors that the Palestinian leadership Considered as and could they continue to weigh on it. So in spite of the success story in the West Bank Gaza is no another success story Jerusalem is Jerusalem from our perspective is not a success story. So here we are formulating a new alternative It is the least Frontational alternative from our perspective. It is it's a legal means to a legal end Our our principal objective is to reach that sovereign state where we Achieve our freedom that we have been espousing for for so long like everybody else in the world You know, we've seen South Sudan recently, you know seeking their freedom and what are you trying to get from the UN? Do you trying to become a member state of the UN which you know America can and will veto? Mm-hmm. Are you trying to upgrade Palestine status to an to not being a member but being an observer state? Mm-hmm If you can give us a little insight into what you understand the the aim to be my understanding is that those are two options And being an outsider only an advisor. I am not a decision maker I am not a political decision. What advice would you give? Share with this room if you're willing to as an advisor. I have put the two options on the table I provided the pros and the cons and I leave the political decision to the leadership the leadership is entertaining both the membership and the recognition and therefore There is their decision ultimately to make the right decision for the for the Palestinians That serves the interests of the Palestinian people for the reasons I cited I'm gonna take another Try you can try I'm gonna try and And extract from you what might have been in That advice that you would have given that those pros and cons What are the if you want to have a go at what is the pro of? Going for membership when it is Attainable I Invite you to address that because the American veto. I think is is not up for question But it might be more interesting to hear what is the advanced issues you see them of what is attainable? Which is this non-member state status? Well as again as a legal advisor to the leadership when we give opinion It is an analysis and therefore as I said again, they make the decision. I cannot in my advice I Give them the decision the veto the US veto would be one of the different Advantages or disadvantages that I would list In in going to the UN Membership gives us obviously much more enhanced status than Non-member state, but also non-member state has a lot of advantages for us among which Includes membership in international conventions Upgrading obviously the diplomatic relations between Palestine as a state of Palestine and its Partner states and so forth and so on so there are a lot of positive advantages to to both and obviously Membership gives you greater such advantages How the US? Elects to make a decision on how to exercise its prerogative of veto is certainly not an issue that I would give advice on I'm gonna continue down this path with the other person we have here who wears that hat of of providing counsel and legal counsel and advice to the leadership and and Let's say one gets something but the UN later this month was him walk us through From your perspective how that helps us get from where we are today to the goal of a Palestinian sovereign viable actual not under occupation state I Have actually a very direct answer for that I mean the Palestinian Leadership and the Palestinian people have been engaged into this process of the peace process or the negotiation process for the past 20 years now and We ended up Recently still discussing. What are we discussing? Are we discussing really the end of the Israeli occupation? Are we discussing a two-state solution based on the 67 line or we are discussing something totally different? With this current Israeli government It's the latter. We are probably discussing something that is not really the contours of the principles Of that started the peace process as such which is the create the end of the Israeli occupation and the creation of the Palestinian State over the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I don't know how close to the room you were but if we could go on a small detour It's the anniversary now. It's not exactly an anniversary to be celebrated of the reconvening of negotiations last September I think it was the longest ever build-up So I think it was the longest ever build-up to the shortest ever negotiations But there were negotiations albeit. I think three meetings maybe between is there any Anything that you picked up that you could share with us and what happened in those negotiations These negotiations couldn't really continue because the basis of these negotiations were not actually Clear so for us. I think going to to the our UM bed with and the story of whether the Occupied territory are disputed territory Whether the end game is actually the establishment of a Palestinian viable Palestinian state or not and I think that discussion will end and Will be actually engaging with the with the Israelis on how to end their occupation the timetable maybe More than whether they will end it or or not. We don't want to go into endless discussion with the Israeli government whether we deserve Rights that have been given given to us by the international law and the international community. That's not really up to the Negotiations we're not negotiating our rights. We are actually talking how we want to implement these these rights Let's put ourselves 3045 whatever it is days from now and let's say There has been some achievement of note at the United Nations whether in a purely theoretical World membership Or Some other resolution which enhances the status wins strong international support From a political Negotiators advisor perspective what's new Where where are we the morning after what's your plan? To the extent to which you can share it with us for the morning after, you know Some Palestinian leaders have been asked what's after September and they gave notes October October and November and this is actually the case. I mean the Palestinians will continue to engage into enforcing the legitimate rights and Implementing the legitimate rights by all means legal legal means and I think the our move in the UN is actually start off a Whole list of different moves that we will be making in order to ensure that The two-state solution will be implemented and to consolidate the two-state solution I think this is the perspective of the of the Palestinian leadership and then we want to to see whether we're actually heading that direction or not We would love to to have a viable independent Palestinian state. We would love to end And and solve the issue of the refugees the issue of of Jerusalem The set the settlements, but we cannot really continue endlessly trying just to negotiate whether we want to negotiate or not I Would love to play for Arsenal football club, but I'm not doing much that's practically advancing that you're going to the UN to practically advance this Can you share with us of that list? You said there's a list of things Can you give us a taste a couple of dishes? That are on that list. What are the what are specific things that this UN move might give you? As I tried to explain maybe it wasn't really clear for us the terms of reference of the Negotiation will be would be quite quite clear. We would hope that we would also find a credible Israeli partner that will sit us all sit with us on the negotiating table to actually the UN doesn't change that one way or The other the UN will enforce the vision of the two-state solution will consolidate the the the vision of the two-state solution Which is actually being totally Demolished by by all of the Israeli facts on the ground Policies and also not only the facts on the ground policies, but also the vision of the current Israeli Leaders we don't want to take both peoples to to an area where we don't want really to To head we think our move will consolidate our position and in that regard with would actually put Give incentives to in the international community and also to Israel to actually move in that direction I'm sure those are things we'll come back to again Thank you. I want to Having zoomed in narrowly to the UN. I want to zoom out much more you work every day With with members of your your community Reverend Rahab and We're obviously witnessing very uplifting Dangerous but uplifting and dramatic times in the region How does the Palestinian reality of today and also the Palestinian UN move fit in with what we're seeing in the region? And how does it interact with that? What are you feeling from from on the ground in Bethlehem? I think it fits very well Because what's happening actually in the Arab world and in Palestine. It's really all about people who wants to live in dignity in Freedom and who would like to reach their potentials. This is what it's all about and Let me I mean just give you myself as an example I mean I was born 1962 five years later Israel occupied the West Bank Gaza Strip Jerusalem including Bethlehem in 88 the PLO decided to go for a two-state solution and We have been hearing about the two states now for a long time. I mean I spent almost my whole life You know hearing two states two states Isn't it high time now? To Finally say the time has come for the Palestinians to Get really their state To be able to live in dignity To be able to live in freedom. I mean I'm really worried that maybe my daughters I have two daughters Would they still keep hearing two states and on the ground will be something else. So I think the new generation of the Middle East are saying now is the time And it's like a new page. It's like opening a new page in the Middle East and I think this momentum We really need to grab to grab it Because it could be really the opening of of a new era in the Middle East and it starts with Palestine I'm tempted to ask you Where you go with what is implicit in that message, which is and what if not and I'd invite you to to speak to that but I also want to In that reality do Do people look to the events of New York and say this can give me hope is is is that something you feel? Given the decades of you've described it a frustration I think people in Palestine are Arthmart They know what to expect and what not to expect from the UN. I think what they expect is that this is a very important step forward And this is a this is a very important sign of hope because They want to see actually if the international community is paying them only lip service or Are they serious about what they say? And in that sense, I think we should not under estimate this step However, we should not I think overestimated because people know that you know on the ground Things will still be different, but I think they will depict that that that moment that Yes, the international community is serious and they are ready to bag them to get them there to reach their potential What I'm hearing is that there is a Understandably a close relationship between a Palestinian ability to sustain belief in two states and An endorsement of that from the world We're going to talk about America more in a moment, but where does America fit into that? Palestinians, I think you know seem to have a close relationship with with with American culture, but How are they going to relate to the likely not for the first time of course? But in a very Significant setting given the build-up to to to America's approach to the you know I think what we are asking for actually is just All the things that this great country was established on talk about liberty about freedom about democracy about Free market, I mean all of these kinds of things it I mean I always when I go to the hill I tell people there I mean please please please come and implement the American values in Palestine This is what you are asking for and in that sense, I think we are we should be both on the on the same page And it is really the great American values that that That I think can open all of these potentials in the Middle East I want to Kind of continue in this line with you ambassador Khoury, which is How does it how does it feel back home? And how does one Kind of place what might or might not happen in New York to to what might or might not manifest itself on the ground How how do you whether now or in a month's time? after whatever happens in New York Continue to pursue statehood under the conditions where there is still an occupation there is 60% of the West Bank territory out of reach etc Give us a sense of of how you Move forward in the face of that reality It is clear that under the present circumstances. We can't move further ahead And and we have done a lot as some of my colleagues have already explained Except and I'm not only the only one to say it. I mean look at World Bank report. I am F We cannot improve the economy if we still have all these six hundred checkpoints on the wall and difficulties of access and movement etc We can't have elections. I mean Palestinians basically are quite a democratic country and believe me. I can speak Much more freely than many others in the region Except that we're not able to hold elections We are canonized Political situation is getting much more complicated and we need to be able to get out of this Impasse we want a sustainable economy again. We can't have it. We've had nine point something growth in 2010 Which is a great thing except we know that income from agriculture went 50 percent down Since the beginning of this decade the same goes for manufacturing. I mean these are issues Americans can identify with We need to be able to move ahead with a population that is literate that knows we have a very capable diaspora and Then so we need to get over the hurdles that do not allow us to be a state to be a people with a future We also need International law. I mean, you know, we've spoken we've exploded trying to explain to people This scenario where our daily Rights most basic rights are violated in such a flagged that manner is not a status quo We can live with or the world can't accept and yet it did go on and for years We explained so I think going to the UN is not only a source of hope But it gives us the tools to be able to to improve our negotiating position get better socioeconomic diplomatic tools to move ahead and and to Provide perhaps if necessary, and I think it is a deterrent whereby Israel behaves as a member of this community of nations so I Always seeking is freedom and I hope that this next step will enable us to move ahead and get over the limitations The state school is providing Maybe we'll just maybe we'll pick up on the deterrent thing later where I wanted to go with it is One of the claims one hears here and is How this might impact the security environment and I think Reverend drive began to touch on that We are told Every day I think by by certain spokespeople that this could encourage violence It's going to create expectations dash them and and you know the next round of bloodshed is around the corner and It's your fault because you're encouraging it by going to the UN I am I have to be honest with you I'm surprised at this logic because I think it's the status core that is providing the threat of Going back to violence and it can't go on what going to the end will do is actually contribute to a fruitful peace process and Minimize the threat of violence so and look at what what we've done in terms of security We've established a very good security infrastructure and the Palestinian National Authority has managed under very difficult times I mean remember after the aggression against Gaza in 2009 they managed to control the street even Against their own let's say credibility with the streets in a sense But still they do it because we know strategically. This is extremely important However, if the ongoing impasse and the ongoing violations of human rights Continue, how long will they be able to sustain that kind of security infrastructure to to maintain it as efficient? I think it we risk having it collapse So no and and security is extremely important for Palestinians and everybody else in the region And my hope is we'll be able to change the the game whereby law and the rule of law Means something that everybody applies the rule of law. I mean, that's what we we're all seeking you mentioned Gaza and the events of Almost three years ago now In your comments, where where does Gaza fit into this picture? Where does the attempt at reconciliation? National reconciliation signed in May fit into this picture of these kind of two parallel trains that Never meet the UN effort the political effort and the unity effort or is there is there a relationship between? Oh, I well for us. It is certainly part of the plan. I mean one of our Priorities is to finish with the seat of gas. I mean that's not the situation We can accept or live with and it has been going on for too long And our hope is it's after September. We signed a reconciliation. Anyhow, truly there are some hurdles But we hope that after September the the clarity of the vision of where we can be heading the the improvement in our negotiating position Will allow us to replicate the the the model that we have succeeded in the West Bank to Gaza and Will help us go ahead with the reconciliation, which is a priority number one of the Palestinian people anyway That we can't ignore. I mean the streets have become more important that also applies to The Palestinian leadership whereby their decisions now should be much more sensitive to the streets and the street is saying time and again First we need reconciliation so I think no after September we will be certainly better off in Bringing all the parties closer together in terms of political program, but also in terms of of unity and geographic unity I I'm gonna kind of switch tracks and Turn to our last guest and turn to you Zahi and What I want to focus on with you is something we just briefly skirted earlier, which is first of all The Palestinians relationship with the US This is being described by some as a Very ill-advised move in terms of Palestinian US relations Why why put those relations at risk Zahi, you know I haven't heard the words since we sat here about The international community responsibility vis-à-vis the conflict I Mean you bear a huge responsibility when it comes to this conflict and and I think In the US relationship, I tell you the relationship between I want to differentiate between the Palestinian people and the American people as one and between the American Leadership and the Palestinian political leadership as something else. There are two different tracks there. I think Which we I consider this to be today a cloud if we were if today we were January 2013 I think we would be talking a totally different language and I think the depth of the relationship does not equate with the relationship say with the With as we like to call them in the Middle East with our cousins you know but I Think today the world has changed We're we're we're out of the fixed line era. We're now in a totally different era And I think we we haven't touched on that but let me tell you that once you get the The technology of communication Which goes above the heads of everybody literally. I think we are going to be seeing a different word the Israelis today Have their own Is bright Israeli summer not spring And if you look at it, you will see a lot of comparison with the Arab Spring now to go back to your question, I mean What I noticed here that in a way wash Washington is is basically shivering or in a total panic about what the Palestinians are asking for I Mean I was my expectation would have been That the United States would be the champion of our call Not the other way around but nevertheless, I'm not because Because I think this is what What do you stands for? Because of the promises don't forget what the president said At the UN General Assembly Don't forget the commitments and I would go back to the responsibility of the United States in its various policy statements Which has never been implemented by the way and and this is why I think I Like to think that we are we have a very heavy cloud over us It's more in Washington than it is in Palestine actually and It it will It it will pass And let's not also think that the last Word has been said on this I Think we should have this discussions maybe two hours after midnight on September 19th because there's still a lot going on is a lot of discussion and And I think there are always spoilers in a relationship like that and I'm not sure the if the spoilers are gaining anything. This is really the irony of this fall Let me talk about or ask you to talk about Similar considerations, but with regard to Israel, I mean some make the point you could get a hundred and ninety-two of the hundred ninety-three UN member states to support you, but if number a hundred and ninety-three that's holding out as Israel then The occupation is still going to be in place Is there a concern that this does? Significant irreparable even damage to your ability to work in the future with the Israelis with those who need to be convinced to To go somewhere else in terms of letting there be a Palestinian state, you know I Have to speak here. Maybe it will shock some in the defense of Israel on this. I Think Israel today the long-term thinker and who are really thinking about the existential Future of Israel don't share the fuse of the present leadership We're a lot in touch with the public with the civil society and we have a lot more in common With them then meets the eye here actually and we're working on that. I think the present Israel will recognize Through internal transformation within the Israeli Society that what is happening today is not in the interest of Israel What is happening if I want to take one thinking that we look at all I Can say the brilliant Palestinians are leaving you're going to have Somalia as a neighbor. Is this what Israel wants? I doubt it Do Does the prospect of And you know it's been talked about it very openly and and has appeared in the press does the prospect of Israeli retaliatory measures in response to the very act of Being so uppity is to go to the United Nations Is that something that poses a serious concern for you Even also retaliatory measures Congressionally led one would imagine by the US when it comes to to aid On the aid, you know, I consider this really a US affair and And money I realize is important And when we talk about it, I mean it's good to talk about a small detail in that aid What really is approved on the hill? The dollar approved on the hill 30 cents of it reaches the Palestinian people I mean, let's be very clear about that and there are some congressmen who are who are extremely upset about it They don't want to cut the aid. They want to cut the overheads You see, I mean, this is something when we talk about something, you know, we ought to be a little bit I think more knowledgeable the reality is The losers of cutting the foreign aid are going to be mostly Washington subcontractors and I've been For that reason alone, should you not withdraw your UM bid? No The last thing we think about, you know, you can't buy dignity. You cannot buy freedom Full stop. This is really the point. But in terms of Israel, you know, there's something much stronger than Mr Than an Israeli political leadership. There is something called economy There's something called West Bank being and Gaza being a captive market It's a four billion dollar market and that the Israeli private sector is not going to keep to be quiet about So the retaliatory aspect of it. I don't really Expected especially and this wasn't mentioned so far That president Abbas is Committed and I think the word is convinced that strategically he is totally against any violent Demonstration or any violence any violence full stop. So This is why it gives me some encouragement that Israel as said someone a few days ago is having a tantrum about it Washington is in panic, but trust me Business will continue Even after the declaration, but what will it do really in my opinion We would be in a better environment to start serious negotiations a Message of chill out from the Coca-Cola What I But thank you Zahi for all that What I'm gonna do and I and I appreciate The insight and the brevity and the ability to work through that of all the panelists And what I want to do though is is open it out for conversations Jonathan and Tom if you could we they're right there next to you Jonathan to Kim and if you could introduce yourself Kim Hi, I'm Kim Rattas. We need to I think there's a mute button that just needs to be pressed Yeah Okay, is it on yeah, do you mind standing thanks Kim Rattas with the BBC? I have a question for any of the members of the panel I'm curious to to know whether Palestinians understand why the United States will veto Your bid for statehood or is it something that is just incomprehensible for most Palestinians? I For now at least we'll take one question at a time. We may batch them later and I'm going to ask whoever wants to jump in but I'm gonna ask you to Stick to Kim's question, which is answer on the assumption that it's a veto because it's a very fair assumption Yeah, do you want to go? Yeah, we're gonna take I'll have Zahi and him comment on that unless anyone else is chomping at the bit the Palestinians understand that very well even the kids in kindergarten Trust me they understand this very well, and they know that there are politics We are become I mean there's so many thesis written about Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a domestic issue But you know America is stronger than that and eventually we will be de-domesticated I Think it's a question of confidence Palestinians do understand what the US is saying But then they've heard so many confusing messages so many promises and nothing came out of it And now we need to change the game. I mean enough is enough. We don't believe in anybody We know that the the the existing paradigm will not be able to take us further Neither on negotiations neither in the situation on the ground meaning the difficulties of daily life so we need to move ahead and and change the game whereby International law is respected is functioned into the the paradigm or or the peace process renewed peace process And and that's why you see a certain kind of you know people are adamant They want to see this change People are for going to the UN you know the policy two-thirds are for really going to the UN the president's Popularity has increased because they see that finally that that game has sort of to speak have been used It's reached the end of the line. We need to get to some change and and move ahead Let's bring the mic down to the front actually might collect Some questions. I think it might be more effective given what will take your question here And then I've got two in the front row and I'll come to that side Hi, my name is my Yorowski. I'm from Jay Street. I Live in Jerusalem and I wanted to know a little bit more About it's kind of maybe a silly question, but you know Israel hold you to it now In 1948 Israel gained their statehood from the UN vote and the support of the United States so What does Palestine? How do the Palestinians feel about this sort of comparison between their their moment to shine and Israel's moment to shine even though You know, they went to the UN they were against all odds kind of just very similar to the state the Palestinians are in now Jonathan Broder from congressional quarterly I'd like to return to a Question that Daniel mentioned and that is the prospect of losing hundreds of million dollars of US aid Israel's supporters on Capitol Hill have made it very very clear that if this UN strategy goes through they will cut aid and I Know that that aid is quite important to the Palestinian Authority. How would you manage without it? Have you thought this through? Just My name is Landrum bowling I Got involved in the study of this problem 40 years ago. I was wrote a little book under the sponsorship of the Quakers called searching for peace in the Middle East Which got me launched into a life long struggle That little book and other things that I've written and spoken about over the years is supported strongly the two-state solution But I want to ask reaction to a statement. I'd like to make at this point Admittedly very provocative. I have come to the convention to the conviction That the two-state solution is not a possibility. There's no way it's going to happen These rays have made this impossible the whole program are developing the settlements was above everything else designed to make it impossible I Just going back and reading some of the statements going back to Ben-Gurion through Bagan The Israeli inter-establishment has farmed at the beginning Expected wanted to hold all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan Valley. They have it now There's no indication that they have it. It is hard to give it up What fear what I fear is that the Israelis could very The Israeli people want a settlement. I'm sure they would accept a two-state solution But the inter-establishment does not My feeling is that the only hope for a solution to this problem is to go back to UN resolution 181 Which I've just reread recently. You know what the title of that resolution is partitioned with economic union and The resolution spells out how the two states coming into being were to be linked together And all a whole list of detailed Interrelationship the word federation is never used But what was created what was in the minds of the people who Approved the resolution that provided for the creation of the state of Israel was a kind of federal union And why could this not be revived? This to me would be the kind of solution that would work for both sides But I think the two the two state solution is finished and I'd like to know what the reaction of the Landrum, thank you for that and one should also acknowledge Your modesty and all the years that you were Shuttling and sometimes in a somewhat more semi-official role Trying to advance peace and it's fascinating to hear The conclusion that you've drawn which I understand is a relatively recent vintage Um Who so we've got three questions on the table a response to Landrum's comment going deeper on the issue of uh, USAID and how does this sit for palestinians as a comparison to 1948 at the un I'm open to whoever captures my attention. I'll answer very quickly the question here. Yes, there are plans To I mean budgetary planning taking into consideration the cutting of the foreign aid I I can't talk too much about it, but I can tell you If we manage better Our very fragile borders in terms of imports and so on if we manage better our tax situation Domestically, I think we'll compensate for more than that But I think the political Significance of that cutting aid is something I'm not very comfortable with And I don't like that's the money I mean this was a bit too Too much for the country like the united states to use blackmailing tactic to get political advantages It's not the united states I would like to see. Thank you We we working there are commitments which haven't been paid yet, but it's it's coming. It's also again A political issue. It's not the lack of funding on the arab state I hope that once we have also the reconciliation the money will be flowing in Start with hind The question of the lady that was not a stupid question It's a very important question because what we hope to achieve is some kind of Of equity in dealing with people. We sometimes feel retreated like we're not human enough and believe me That's very painful to live with Because and we understand it this way that the establishment of the state of israel And it legitimacy is equal to the establishment of the state of palestine and we don't understand all these obstacles all this panic all this You know diplomacy that you know sort of makes you get lost in a quagmire We we need to move ahead and Allow me to speak. It's not very diplomatic to say we've heard a very hypocritical language for too long from part of the international community and And we've heard it for too long. I think it's time that it stops Uh, I have to admit that there is a civil society that is very not only in israel and in palestine But also around the world that understood the issues and have this human agenda And are there they're picking the good fight and doing a very good job on the issue of um of aid I think zahi was very very Articulate, I just want to add that it will be difficult when we have less aid But believe me I was in government in 2005 and every month and hamas wasn't on the scene It was before the elections and every month the struggle was how do we get the money to pay the salaries and believe me No, palestinian want to stay hostage to this kind of scenario. It's time. We we move ahead We have been hostages actually this kind of blackmailing again. I'm not being diplomatic here We need to move ahead and and not be hosted on the issue of what israel wants again It's very clear. I think the writing is all over the wall um, and and perhaps after a stage of Of statehood of some kind of independence. We can move to a federation. It makes a lot more sense actually You know the historic palestine will always be our country and the jews were all going to say this is our country It's going to be shared. So it need we need open borders. We need Cooperation in any form that that will be feasible, and I hope this is the way we will go. Thank you Maybe long term just directly to answer whether the two-state solution is dead or not and I think this is the answer that Israel and the international community should spill it out I mean for us palestinians. We have tried it all as this is our narrative In the 60s we were calling for a binational state and everybody refused that and in 1988. We accepted To to concede to 78 percent of historic palestine in order to be able to establish our own viable palestinian state And till now we are actually Suffering to to bring that to to to practice So it's actually a question to the international community. Are they really interested in the two-state solution? And if they are and also Israel It's time to implement it and everybody knows what the two-state solution is all about It's about having israel and palestine palestine on the on the west bank and Gaza strip with with east Jerusalem as its capital Now the kind of relationship between israel and palestine It's something to be negotiated between between the the parties, but I think time Is is of an essence and I think that with the continued israeli policies Yes, big challenges are being put into the entire premise of the two-state solution But it's not really the palestinians that need to Answer this question It's it's our partners on the on the other side and also the international community who has been pushing us Towards accepting this international Concept and you know, we've heard about the bush vision now We are hearing about the obama hope and I hope that somebody will come actually and Practice it One thing that just strikes me as we're having this conversation Especially follow up the question you asked jonathan is um What i'm hearing from the platform and I think it would not be too different if we had Currently serving palestinian officials here. This is not a revolutionary move In terms of its intentionality That the palestinian leadership is seeking to make at the u.m This is something of an incrementalist move which is born of the inability to make progress with negotiations But it's designed to still be in that place Of trying to advance in a negotiated way with international supporter two-state solution It strikes me that the radical game changing potential of this move the revolutionary potential of this move Exists much more in congress and in the israeli cabinet And only if congress and the israeli government choose To respond in a revolutionary way Or in a radical way To the move to cut aid to withhold tax revenues to take dramatic moves Only then I think will we see the whole thing unravel And and a very hesitant palestinian Step I mean what we're hearing on the platform is The center cannot hold indefinitely This is buying time for the center to hold from a palestinian perspective But should others take a pickaxe to this very fragile sheet of ice Then we're in a whole different paradigm Is my sense, but I we've got marianne here and then next to marianne on the end of that row I'm marianne stein a former chair of americans for peace now in a long time advocate and fighter for the two-state solution Can people hear Okay, i'm i'm marianne stein a former chair of americans for peace now and a believer in the two-state solution However, i'm concerned that in this conversation. I feel as if To some extent short shrift is given to the some of the Concerns some which may be legitimate about this this particular action and The one that I have heard that seems to me to be quite real is About the relationship between gaza and the west bank or between hamas and fata And whether um, daniel you started on that path. I think in your last comment if If this didn't go through that the actions of the united states in in killing it or the congress in cutting off aid Could create a situation where the current leadership loses or the center loses its hold on On the politics in palestine, but I think There are also concerns that if this goes forward There is potential for plenty of mischief To occur And i'm curious to know What concerns you may have about This very fragile I don't remember what the term is reconciliation coming together Or whatever it is it's been very hard in coming And um, there are many people who are quite concerned about what will what will happen um to this Entity that at the moment is so so fractured Thank you, ma'am Sorry Hi, um, my name is faris. I'm a drudinian and pasinian living here in dc There's been There's been a lot of um vague reports about the drudinian position on this move Um, have there been any consultations with the drudinians about this? Do they have anything to be concerned about and Can you assure us that they are supportive this move? Um, do you have anything to say about these reports? Hi, michelle kelemann with national public radio. I just wondered um, what your view is on president obama right now on his And on what he's doing the team that he's sent to talk to abbas, uh, david hail and denis ross Yes, we can Uh on the drudinian paris. Yeah, it's it's it's the easiest question So because the bid I would say almost every other day consultation between the president and king Abdullah and and all the odd declaration And what we see if first the chemistry between both is excellent At the second level the government thinks They're on the same wavelength There are I mean some people who are called concerned about the jordanian is But I think this will be overcome But at the top level the very very close coordination Just True the reconciliation agreement has been or took long in the making but finally it was reached in may and um In in that respect, uh, it has gained the support of our palestinians going to the un further supports that reconciliation Not going to the un Underminds that reconciliation Hamas has issued the declaration That it has that it supports The step of going to the un So in that context it brings us closer together Miss npr you you ask what again Right now, you know, his polls are down in the middle east and in the us But you know, I still would like to think this a cloud I think he has to survive first Before he can be thinking of us palestinians, you know But President obama at least I personally feel that he is As a person He is fully committed. He understands the issue And and when he visited jerusalem as a young senator, I was Very surprised about the depth of his knowledge after having met probably 20 senators and congressmen over The last few years. I was very very surprised pleasantly surprised about the depth of his lord But he was he wasn't a candidate yet so I'm optimistic i'm About him And I don't look at what happens This month or the previous month. I'll try to think a little bit longer term, you know Maybe january third or fourth 2013 Will be a different obama inverse relationship applied between one's depth of knowledge Yes I I Okay, anyhow I'm sorry I will just will make this last comment on the on obama and and the team I will speak in general terms basically Obama is not the only president who made a promise that he couldn't fulfill To the palestinians. I remember april 2002 bush made president bush made a very Good speech on the two-state solution only to see him two months down the line Almost putting shelving the issue. So this is not new and I feel Over my lifetime During the occupation. I was 13 in 1967 We have only been hostages of american internal politics or israeli internal politics waiting for the elections either here or there And I don't think this is something that cannot continue anymore and and on the team i'm i'm surprised because It's surprising that they come to dictate They're not explaining why really we we should go it's not very convincing but also not providing alternatives This is what diplomacy is about If something is not good, then we need to discuss and talk and provide alternatives so that we can move forward. Thank you Sorry The gentleman at the back. Thank you. Um mike hannah from aljazeera. Hi mike. Hi, um the Issue that it has been heard very much among the palestinian diaspora on this is a question of the right of return Now very clearly it appears in all legal opinion is that the move for statehood will produce A state on the borders of 67 resolution 194, which would have trumped 181 in the first place but In this particular case What happens to the right of return is the right of return now to a palestinian state as defined by the 67 borders Or is the right of return a right of return home? Does by going for this move the palestinian leadership not only establish the borders of a palestinian state But also the borders clearly define borders of israel and what are those ramifications for the right of return? i'm going to bring the mike Actually, we'll leave I'm going to take. Oh, okay. We're going to take all the remaining questions We're going to sorry jonathan. I just won't have time Hi, um, my name is uh garret nada. I'm a master student at gw I just finished a summer studying at bittersday university and also working for a palestinian NGO and I'm with ramallah and kufr naima and my questioner relates to the economy with the impressive growth The fact of the matter is is that for a lot of palestinians that don't live in ramallah don't sort of live in this bubble They haven't really seen the growth at home They're still high on employment and every year more university Graduates don't go into the workforce or they go into manual labor Even though they might have a degree in english literature or an it or something else So my question goes I'm really interested to hear from the private sector What are the ramifications for getting anything at the un for job growth? And um, it seems that there are actually some palestinians that I met at least were resentful about their leadership Fly on a bass spending so much time abroad trying to win a battle that might not be able to be won While the situation at home stays the same. So what can the private sector or the or the public do? In regards to job growth, uh, assuming that they get something from the un. Thank you And we'll just have the the last question Thank you. My name is paoloville and I work with the finnish broadcasting company. I'm a journalist I will pose your question with i which was asked me yesterday by one member of the finnish parliament Is there any way you could think that this process of going to the un and and um Start to do some actions in advancing your uh your position. Can it be Put on hold? Anyhow at this time or does it look like that you will be now doing something. Thank you so much Can this be put on hold was I think was the question um, okay, so Last round of answers in any Final comments Okay, i'm gonna let i'll take the uh, so i'll start with you Thanks private sector Uh has played a role and can still play a big role. Yes, there are as I mentioned in my opening remarks 45 000 graduates that are coming out of universities every year and what uh the private sector is proposing is to Really try to go into the knowledge-based economy. I'll give you a simple example You were in birzade, so I'll give you an example that is specific to birzade We are a construction company And uh in contracting profit is the motivation We have managed to find a win-win situation with birzade university We have a center of excellence established there That employs 20 graduates 20 engineers. They're using Very high tech techniques in building information management in construction and engineering They're getting very good salaries They are in the line of business And we are making good profits. This is one example. This can be replicated By a lot of the people in the last para Once they feel that they are able to do more of this type of activities This is not just a question of a profit. It has also Been spread around the university In a way that uh, for example Gave birzade university graduates civil civil engineering graduates an edge uh last year When we started recruiting Only four civil engineering graduates from birzade made it After having been through an exposure to this program where we have established the center of excellence Which is actually a profit center for us They we have managed to recruit 20 out of the 26 Uh university graduates. So basically there are opportunities out there And we will spread this case study to others so that they are encouraged to come in and play bigger roles There are other things as well We have to start Telling or showing the SMEs as word as to where A good business opportunities exist. There's a big trade imbalance. It's four billion to under a billion In terms of exports imports and exports What we have to tell them is look at where there are opportunities for small manufacturing And start producing this internally and we will give you technical assistance. We will give you Help in shaping up your business plans and we will uh, also Help you in in enrolling into Loan guarantee funds. There's a there's a big program called the Middle East investment initiative out there I'm on the board gives loan guarantees to small and medium enterprises and uh, we have to find also, uh means for Spreading political risk insurance for the bigger players So there are a lot of opportunities that will eventually Enable the youth to enroll into topics and Livings that are very close to their graduates to their graduations subjects. So There is hope out there We are very very optimistic Thank you And I and I want to turn to heba to take a couple of those questions On the right of return question Statehood or going to the un will will not Prejudice nor bias nor predetermine the final status issues. Those are subject to negotiations still Uh That's one factor. The other factor is we really do not know what the language of the resolution will be We do not know what the Whether the resolution will refer to Refugees or the borders or to the to jerusalem or set those parameters and therefore The the mere fact in of itself Of the bid to the un will not preclude nor prejudice the right of return of the palestinian refugees on the This question of putting the decision to go to the un on hold President abbas has expressed it on a number of occasions the only Justification for putting The step to go to the un on hold would be to have Viable credible option to resumption of negotiations Based on clear Parameters as to the issues and a clear timeline But he as a as a as the leader as the president Will not re-engage in a negotiations for the sake of re-engaging in a process of negotiations So there has to be clarity definition and that would be the Only exception to going to the un Thank you Otherwise, I want to hand over sorry. Otherwise. I want to hand over to leila to make some closing comments and I'm wrap up Hello. Yeah, that's on Well, first of all, I want to thank the panelists This delegation has been in washington now for three days And have been fielding Questions mostly of a skeptical nature for for those many days and As zahi said operating under this this cloud and haze so I think that they've been very gracious and answering questions and I think just as much as they should be questioned those in the u.s government and Other members of the international community need to to answer and and respond To inquiries around how do you actually resolve the palestinian-israeli conflict because Ultimately, you know why we're talking about sort of the procedural moves of going to the un and Consequences there from this is the palestinians Are in need of of freedom and justice and and this is the cause that that we need to be Focused on and I think that this this step of Going to the un is is one of many that will Have to happen in order to to get to a to a final situation where where all the aspects of the conflict have been addressed I think The resolution that would be put to the general assembly Um would not likely tackle all of these questions and and would likely be Minimalist in its nature because what I've heard from the panelists is ultimately that there is an interest in um gaining recognition of of state status and placing um this This struggle into the context of international legitimacy and trying to move the dynamic political dynamics forward And perhaps upset them a bit in order to to change Change the situation to to progress beyond what has been A long situation of stalemate So I want to thank the panelists again for for their graciousness and answering the questions and Thank everyone for coming today And I presume that we will be back here in October for another conversation about What what what happens next? Thank you