 See what's new on the Burlington Waterfront. Hi, welcome to On the Waterfront. I'm your host, Mariah Riggs, and director of the Main Street Landing Performing Arts Center. This month, I'm really excited to have the artist, Erica Miller, on my show. Welcome, Erica. Thank you, Mariah. So let's kind of get into this. I've always wanted to kind of talk to you a little bit about your background and find out more about you. We've done some work together, which I will get into shortly. But really quickly for our audiences, so what kind of work do you do? How would you describe your, you're an artist, but how would you describe yourself? Wow, that's a good question. I constantly think about that. Well, not constantly, but it's like I went from artist, multimedia artist, performance artist, and then I realized that I'm also actually a work with scent. And then the term multisensory artist kind of came about. And that's kind of the one I stuck with. But at the same time, I feel like I was just listening to an interview with Laurie Anderson and somebody asked her what she's doing. And she's like, well, I'm a storyteller. I'm like, that's a really good answer. I'm going to steal that from her. No, not stealing, but it's more than just telling stories, or not just telling stories. It's bringing people to experiences. That's how I would describe, I mean, my experience with your art is that it's an experience. And it takes on all the different dimensions of the senses, which is really unique. And what it does and what it brings to people's lives and how it affects them is very unique. And so I guess, you know, how did you, so it's interesting you talk about how you were, you know, video, multimedia artists. I mean, these are kind of, it's very funny because you just talked about Laurie Anderson. I was very fortunate to do an artist in residency with her when I was at Emerson. She came and worked with us for a month, which was pretty awesome. Way back in the day, this was like 1998. I'm really aging myself, 1998. We got to do a month with Laurie Anderson. That is amazing. And work on things like, I want to hear more about that. We'll talk about that. But, and I think, you know, of all, you know, it was great. I actually just saw her exhibit at the Smithsonian. They did a life retrospective. And I was fortunate enough to actually be there to go see it. That's incredible. And I would describe your art as the closest thing I've seen in Vermont to some of the work that Laurie Anderson does. And I kind of wanted to ask, you know, a little bit, you know, because I love the idea of a multi-sensory artist. And I think the world needs more of you. Thanks. I think so too. Static art can only do so much. And we live in this world where everything is the sensual experience. And so art is a reflection of our times and our life and our culture. And it just makes more sense to me that art should be doing more and exciting different senses. And then something that's just visual or auditory or, you know, just an AV experience is something that is like encompassing of all facets of how you experience the world. And so I wanted to ask how you got there. So that, well, how I got there is kind of a long, long story. Starting when I was a kid, I was kind of like all kids. And where did you grow up? Oh, OK. So you want to start? Yeah, we're going to start there. We're starting there. OK, so I grew up in Bavaria in a small town called Makt Oberdorf, which is really close to the fairy castle, Schlossner-Schwanstein. So I remember walking up that steep hill, like when I was three years old, to the castle. And I had these black patent leather shoes on. And I stopped every, like, two steps and had to polish them because I loved the shininess of them. I still remember it. I told my parents crazy, but it was still a good experience. Anyway, so then when I was six and a half, we moved to the Frankfurt area, which is a little more north. And there I went to elementary school. And then when I was after fifth grade, however old you are, then we moved to Sweden. So then I had middle school in Sweden, which was absolutely incredible. And then for high school, we moved back to Germany. And it wasn't because of my schooling, it was because my dad's work. And I did high school in Heidelberg. And then I moved back to Sweden. I worked a little bit in England. I moved back to Sweden. I went back to Germany to study, go to college. Then I worked in Italy, and ultimately ended up in Frankfurt, worked with PR, and also studied dance. Oh, I did not know that. Yes, so I studied with one of Mary Wigman's master students. So Mary Wigman is kind of the expressionist dancer, dancer, dance theater, original dance theater person. And so I had this two-year-long, beautiful degree and experience in studying with one of her master students. And then after that, I toured. So I completely left out of my back two years, which is a time in your life to actually do that. It was so perfect. We did big street theater outdoors, side-specific theater, and two musicians and four dancers of us and one director. And we built our own set and sculptures. And it was just awesome. And just for the viewers out there who aren't really aware of this, Europe has this absolutely fabulous performing art scene where they really, you know, I know we do festival fools here in Burlington, which is sort of a small-scale version. But in Europe, there's this infrastructure that allows artists to really tour and do performance art in the streets of Europe, which is a wonderful incubation space. But actually, it's funny because my last performance I had with them was in Atlanta. There was the World Fest in Atlanta. So I ended up like that. Can we do it again? Yeah, which is really funny. But then I felt like two years of that was awesome. And I was just had more appetite for going back to school. And I applied to NYU, to Temple University, to a school in Holland in London for dance. And I knew that you can't really study performance. But I wanted to study the education part of it. So I ultimately ended up at Temple University in Philadelphia, where I was accepted to get my master's in dance education. And I had an amazing time there. And after the first year, so I had one semester left. After two semesters, you have the end of the year review. And they asked me if I wanted to, if I ever thought about getting a doctorate. And I'm like, sure, if you pay for it. I was like, you're actually thinking, giving you a teaching fellowship. OK, great. So it was awesome. Yeah, and that's another thing. If you're not aware of it, it's a great track. Once you get to a certain point at certain schools, if you have a master's and you're asked to do a doctorate, usually there's a teaching fellowship that actually helps support you by getting a doctorate, which is part of the academic track. To those of you who are not aware of that, it's kind of an amazing educational lift and sort of a tuition hack in America. Tuition hack. And it just strengthened my experience so much more because I was able to study, I was able to teach, I was able to perform, kind of did all of it. Yeah, which is great. And then I also got my master's in physical therapy and my training in Alexander Technique, but that's kind of another tangent that brings me back to my body. It was a good time. It was a lot of body work. There's a lot of body work. And at the end of my studies, I met my husband. And he was going back to school. He just applied to medical school because he'd been out trying to not to be a doctor. And then ultimately, he would go back and he ended up at UVM. So that's how you got to Vermont. That's how I got to Vermont. Thank you. That's always been my missing puzzle piece. I'm so excited to find out. And you know the funny thing is that I've moved about, I think I counted it once like 17 times in my life. And then we moved to Vermont. And I have been here since 1995, which is so crazy for me. So there was this moment. I'd only lived here for six years. And somebody was asking me for directions. And I automatically just said, oh, I don't really know. I'm new here. And the person asked, how long have you lived here? And I was like, six years. That was the moment where I knew I needed to rewrite my script and really revire my thinking because I wasn't new there anymore by no means. So I had the hardest time to learn how to be in one place. I still go through this exercise every couple of years. And I was like, OK, what's the minimum? How long will it take me to pack up these boxes and move somewhere? If I just want to. Exactly. It's more about being knowing you can. Exactly. That freedom, right? So yeah. So but here I am like 20. Well, we'll keep you. 30 years. You're not allowed to leave anytime soon. We like having you here. I love it. I love it. This is my home in a way. Well, I'm sure a lot of you can appreciate that as well. So thank you. I've always wondered that. And so it's very interesting thinking about it now because I didn't realize your background is in dance. And so dance is a experience that utilizes every part of the body. So it makes sense that that would lead into how you express art. But my original experience is actually in visual art. And then I started studying dance in my 20s because I'm not a good ballet dancer. I did not. I did one ballet class when I was six years old and I thought it was incredibly boring. I never set a foot in a ballet studio again until I was in my 20s. And recovering from a head injury, ski injury, I found movement as a rehabilitative tool. Movement supported by breath. And through serendipity, I fell into this dance training that just felt like coming home in a way because I was able to use my own expression. I mean, we had technique training. We had ballet and modern dance classes to school to train our body, which is the tool of expression for a dancer. But ultimately, the choreography comes from you. And I was really interested in that. So it's really kind of the pre-stage two performance art in a way. Well, of course, because you're using the human body as your canvas. That's sort of the mechanism that creates effect to the audience. Yes, exactly. And as a choreographer, those are your brushstrokes. Yes, exactly, exactly. Which then leads you to thinking of other ways to incorporate movement and visualization. And again, as choreography, as anybody in dance knows, the music is also a vital importance. Or you could just have silence. But it's nice that how all those things work together leads to sort of a multi-essential experience. That, and then over the years, as the digital world became bigger and more in our lives, I noticed that people in any conversation, in any kind of thing, it's so easy to forget our body. We talk about all the things that are out there. But everybody forgets that without this. There's nothing out there. So I'm like, my work, technically, I don't have the patience for it, and I don't have the brain for it. So for me, it's really important to give people a visceral experience, not audience participation, because I think that's terrible. Like when you're in the circus and you get called up on stage, it's like, oh my gosh, that's awful. But like a personal experience that brings them back to their body and that reminds each of us that we are human. And also that relationship of how you relate to your body. Exactly, exactly. And maybe changing that relationship too is a nice way to have art. So it changes your perspective and how you relate to your body is a nice way to kind of break people out of their comfort zone. Yes, yes. Just at the edge of the cliff. I don't want to throw them over the cliff because nobody wants that, right? So full disclosure, when I first met Erika, she told me she wanted to find the most industrial part of my entire building. And I think to quote, she wanted to find the bowels of the building. And I don't think I've ever met with anybody within the first five minutes who've asked to go to the bowels of my building. Which I instantly knew Erika was a kindred spirit because I totally get that. And that is sort of the something I really like about the work that I've seen of yours is that it incorporates space. And I'm assuming that comes from a performance art perspective is that the space that you inhabit for the art is part of the experience. Space is really important and I, it actually, I was inspired by, no actually I started before I went to Antarctica, but I am interested in spaces as with people, communities, spaces that are kind of overlooked because I think fancy theaters and movie theaters and flashy kind of online stuff, that's kind of easy to see, that's kind of loud in a way, but it also is a divider. I know having worked with the Flint Theater for many years, I know for some it's a barrier to go to the theater. They don't know what to wear and what to say and how to behave and so on. And I'm interested in not having that barrier in bringing the art to the people. So when I ask you about the bowels of the building, where are the, because every part of a building is used, whether it's taking out the trash or parking the cars. So those are the parts that we normally, in our everyday life, we kind of try to just ignore. And for me, there's some like the beauty and the magic in these ignored kind of utilitarian places. I feel like it's so rich, right? I also think, I mean, just from my experience and just my perspective is that also sometimes being in a space that you do tend to kind of have blinders, you experience every day, but you don't actually experience or look in or spend time in to put people in a space like that leads people to be more reflexive. And they're also much more open to being receptive because sometimes being, and this is me as a theater owner, but people are much more responsive to places that set them into a different space that they're not fully comfortable with or that they don't have pre-expectations in. Yes, yes. That and at the same time, a space that everybody knows. Nobody, let's take the work we did together so beautifully. Nobody is kind of has anxiety to go into a parking garage, especially if it's lit up. And I mean, there's the other anxieties, but not. So it's not a very, I feel like these spaces, they're equalizers, they put us all, it's kind of an estuary, right? It doesn't matter what your annual income is and what your parents did and what your degree is. In the parking garage, we're all equal, right? Because we all go there to park our car and to use the back exit if the front is not open and so on. So that kind of equal, that equal place, that equal site, that is interesting to me. Yeah, it's a democratic space. It's a space of equality. Exactly, yes. And there's something lovely about that. And there's also not better seats too. I mean, that's the other thing too, right? I would say yes. There's always that hierarchy, like how nice are your seats, how close are they at the stage? That's a really good point, I haven't thought about that. That always ties into the socioeconomic, I mean, that goes back to in Europe, where the boxes where the aristocrats hung out and then there was the crowds in the bottom and it was a whole socioeconomic thing as well. And by not having these comfy seats, you also can't check out of your body because it's so easy that we just kind of lounge and just let things kind of wash over us. If you have to stand, and I always make sure that my performances are not two hours long, I always wanna make sure that the experience is such that it's maybe just a little bit at the edge of the comfort zone, but not like that people start looking at their watch and be like, I need to sit down now or go. And also always have seats for people who are not able to stand up and I always make sure that it's kind of also ADA accessible. And so I think also, this is a good segue, you already went there, but I met Erica actually because she came in and did an amazing experience during the last Vermont International Film Festival, where she brought people down our stairwell, and Chris Jeffery is another artist, did a whole experience in our stairwell that was with light and smell and sound, and people went from being up in the performing art stand all the way down to the bowels of the building and our underground parking garage, where then they had this really full experience with dancers and sort of a very industrial themed production. And so it was this whole like movement through space and then back through. And I'd love you to explain that a little bit to our audience, because it really was a wonderful work. Thank you, thank you. So we were invited to the Vita to the International Film Festival with our nine minute long film. And which was great, but I feel like nine minutes by the time somebody sits down, like the nine minutes are over, right? So, and I also always think about, okay, what else can we do? Like there's so many layers, not just the film, which was a beautiful work in itself, collaboration with Lukas Hofmann. And so this was actually working with you was the first time I worked with a site that didn't have the obvious grittiness. You know, I've done an opera in the parking garage, I've worked in the salt shed, I've worked in the Moran plant when it was still standing. So there was a story of the building and I just initially, I just couldn't get traction because it's a beautiful building. And it, there's theater, right? So it was like, okay, so where are the cracks? Where's the grittiness of it? And then you actually was your idea. And he was like, what about the parking garage? And that's when kind of everything just came together because it was perfect. And it had a giant fan that was very aesthetic. Which was so beautiful. And by the way, the acoustics in the parking garage they are unbelievable. Thank you. That's actually very interesting. I didn't know that about a parking garage. Yes. I think you should have more concerts down there. We'll have to talk. Yes. It can be a whole series. Exactly. It's actually underground, so. Underground, there you go, there you go. So the parking garage felt like there was the right place for the film, which is a very gritty kind of, it was filmed on a junkyard partially. So it kind of fit that. And then there was the question of kind of how, what's the experience? For me, the experience for the viewer starts with when they enter, like when they get the ticket. So then I made this program that kind of literally unfolded. So people were standing in the foyer, waiting for the door, for the little side door into the parking, like into the stairways to open. And so they were unfolding this ticket and they had to turn it like this program and they had to turn it and fold it up again and so on. So there's already the engagement in the body. They already had something actually to do, to move with. And then the staircase, I felt like I was thinking of like Jungian, like the metaphor of the, going down in the depth of your subconscious. So I wanted it to be magical, so it's kind of fairy staircase. So I found and was kind of recommended to Chris Jeffrey, who does these beautiful, how would you describe it? Like kaleidoscope, lighting, installations. I actually, full disclosure, I just hired Chris to do an installation on. That's so exciting, which is really exciting. So thank you for that. Thank you for introducing us. That's awesome. I can't wait to see it. He does beautiful work. Yes, he does. Absolutely. So he created this absolute magic in the staircase of people walking down there. And part of my thinking is always also, what if like each piece in itself needs to be a full experience because the pessimist in me or the fearful person in me is like, what if the power goes out? Or what if the film doesn't work? Or what if the music? So, or what if the performers that I had don't show up? So it's always like for me, it's like, okay, what if only one of these elements would be the only element people experience? And I want that to be a full, meaningful experience in itself because then you add one meaningful experience to another, to another, to another and you create magic, essentially. And you can only do that when you work with. Because it's comprehensive. And they all are standalone. So then it becomes an incredibly like omnipresent experience. Yes, yes, exactly. Omnipresent experience, I love that. I'm gonna quote you on that one. Okay, but it is. And I really salute the work that you did during the festival, it was quite remarkable. We had great feedback from it. And hopefully we get to do something with you again sometime soon. Not bad, yes, definitely. So I wanted to quickly come back. We have all these questions we haven't even gotten to. So, now that we've talked about this a little bit, art, we've talked about how it's multi-sensual. It comes from so many different places. You'd like it to be able to be free standing but also be together as a creative whole. Where do you think, where does your art come from when you're working on a piece? That's a good question. It feels like it sounds really tried but it's just kind of just, I literally, for example, the opera I did in the parking garage, I literally, I always wanted to do something with, well actually let's start with the film that we're talking about. That was actually connecting with Lucas Hoffman who is a filmmaker and he was interested in my work. I was interested in his work and I showed him some of the costumes I had done for other pieces. And he's like, I guess, and we started talking and like within two meetings we realized that we were making a film together. I'd never made a film and then he felt like it was just after COVID. So he's like, wow, we should make a sci-fi film. It's like I don't really, I have no idea about sci-fi but then I realized, well science, I'm interested in science and I know fiction, I know storytelling. So I guess I do know sci-fi and so we just started working together and I made these characters and we found sights and so it's just kind of, it's just literally just came together. So you feel like it's more reactionary cause and effect that it's an organic process that builds on it. Well that one was another piece I did autobiography was an opera I did in the parking garage in Burlington, I seem to like parking garages. And that was, I've always been fascinated with the smell in cars and cars are part of my life because my dad made his life and his living with cars. So, and I just feel like they literally transport you through different stages of life. So that's been in the back of my mind. I was like, what is it, what is it? But I didn't feel like I had a hook, right? I don't do stuff just because I can. And then one morning. It's funny, it kind of fits into your, it kind of fits into your aesthetic because the car is sort of the unsung hero of the modern age. Yes, totally, you're so right. And so, again, it's one of those things we see every day we don't notice, right? But it's so crucial and it's changed so much about how human beings experience life. Yes, yes, absolutely, you're absolutely right. I guess I tend to go to industrial themes in a way. Which I love, so. Yeah, time and love being out in nature but it's just, yeah. I don't think anybody can top nature. So I was like, well, there's nothing to add to this. I'm gonna make something about the stuff you can add something to it. And sometimes too, living in nature, as we do in Vermont, I mean it surrounds us and it's so a crucial part of our experience that sometimes making art that's almost the opposite or the contrast to that experience, we find more inspiring. You know, you're so right. Thank you for saying that because I always say, if I would live in New York City, I think I would be sitting in my studio and making watercolor flowers or something like that. It's very true. Because, you know. In some ways it's an escapist mentality. You're escaping your day to day because it's something that's very different than what your day in day is a reflection of. Or you create the balance. Because it's so easy in Vermont to say, oh, it's so beautiful here and look at the trees and so on. But we do have problems with pollution, with cars, with all that. We also, even if we are here, even more actually, we're using our cars more in Vermont than we do in New York City, for example. Very much so. So, yes. As any Vermonter knows, who lives outside of Burlington, I don't know how many of you there are, but you can't lease a car because you drive too much. Yeah, exactly. It's a real thing. So with autobiography, literally one morning woke up and felt like it's the ring cycle. And I was like, okay, and then I started researching. The ring cycle, Wagner's, Wagner's ring cycle. Which is, of course, then fraught in many ways, but there's something very archetypal about it. So ultimately, I, and it just kept growing from there. And there was a time when, like, winter was always the time where little seeds got planted. And then by the fall, I, yeah, the performance would be ready. So that's kind of how that started. And that's like your natural process. That seems to be the natural process, yes, yes. Well, because winter is that time of inner reflection. Yes, exactly. And then the creative happens when everything blooms and it's beautiful out. Yeah, it's production time then. It's production time. It's like farmers, you know, in the fall, you're just gonna go out and get the harvest in. You harvest it all. And then the winter, think about what you're gonna do next year. Exactly, exactly. Yes, yes. That's very seasonal of you. It's overbought. I didn't plan it, but it seems to work in a way. So I wanna quickly give a shout out to, for all of you looking, please, please check out Erika on Instagram. A lot of the work we've been talking about is on our Instagram page, which is Instagram, it's at Erika spent M. It's up on the... You can find it on my website. You can find it. It's right there at the bottom. See, there it is, thank you. Please go check her out on Instagram. And there's also great videos of Erika's work as well on Vimeo. So that should also be at the bottom of the screen if you'd like to check out all of her work. It's remarkable. There's nobody else in the state of Vermont doing the work that you do, Erika. Thank you so much. And I greatly respect your perspective and view on the world. And I'm so glad you bumbled into my space. I'm so glad. And I got to meet you. I knew we were kindred spirits when you were like, let me show you our parking garage. I'm like, I like that moment. So thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a delight. Please check out all of her work. It's really remarkable. It will affect your life and how you experience it. And so highly recommended. Thank you guys all so much for being here this month for Mariah Riggs and Erika. I will see you right back here next month. Take care. Thank you so much.