 As long as we project from our mind onto the body and onto the world, then Jesus is just quietly saying, come back. Because Jesus and the Holy Spirit can't destroy what the ego made. They don't even know what destruction is, but they do know what forgiveness is. They know how to see it differently. They know how to observe it in a state of pure acceptance and pure non-judgment. That's something that Ken would always say, the Holy Spirit doesn't act in the world. The Holy Spirit isn't inside pulling the levers. The Holy Spirit is just offering a forgiven world and saying, hey, watch with me. See how peaceful it is to watch with me. And so to me, that's definitely beyond the body. That's still practical. We're not denying that there seems to be images there. We're just saying, don't try to judge them as good and bad and right and wrong and all the dualities. Don't try to find the meaning in the crystal ball. Just come inside with Jesus and the Holy Spirit and see the world with them.