 I am very happy that I am able to communicate with the people in the community. I am very happy that I am able to communicate with the people in the community. So, just to acknowledge the tobacco that has come and to help provide some insight and understanding of what this tobacco is and these questions of what you are asking and what you are asking of me. So, Indigenous education and from my own understanding and from my own lived experience is a transmission of knowledge. A transmission and transference of a really specific knowledge that you can't really find anywhere in the mainstream education systems which are life stories that you can't get unless you've talked to somebody who's lived something or has done something along those lines so it's very much a their story, much like it's his story and history. Those are the, that's what I'm going to try and reference. So that's part of our education. And then understanding the spirit of education. There's a guidance there and that's what as educators they're supposed to do so that's what I would like to try and talk about. And so, I'll talk about my own experience in Indigenous education. So, me when I'm on Nishinaabe, I'm actively pursuing the Nishinaabe language. I'm learning all that I can that is of the Madeleine society, the way of the heart. Also helping with my mom's school and the Ndumalget and Ndumalget, Ndumal, Akinomoshina, Zinacada. So, and that someone, specifically with the language, you don't see it so much with other places of, I guess, education, mainstream education I should say, is mentor apprenticeship programs. So, that's actually taking the time and someone who would be designated the master of a specific art language or knowledge and spending time with them throughout the course of however long it takes you to become proficient at it. So, there's examples down in the southern U.S. with the Denei language. They do master apprenticeship language programs there and they spend two hours a day for a week for three years learning the language. We go to the Mima Technique Shingigajicigake, Bajicigake. Yeah, well that's what we're doing here. And we'll be doing here. So, we have two, our two language speakers there from Wiki and their sisters, Kotni Kaboni and Mary Lou Manitowabi. That's who I'm learning language from. As well as, but they're here every day with the school and helping the school. But there's like a learning, helping agreement with the school between two organizations. My, if I had to describe it, we're a, just a youth group, supposed to be a youth group. And, we provide, we were trying to provide funding to send youth and pay for a language teacher for a year and have them well, well working with this so we don't have to work, look for a language teacher. So, that's, that's going, that's going pretty well. But it's taking that time and listening. And once you start to understand, then you ask questions. Because you don't want to just start asking questions right away. Because then you're not going to, it's going to take you a lot longer if you start asking right away. If you start asking right away then another question, then another question, then another question, then another question, then another question will come. So you got to really sit and wait and be patient because the questions, the answers will come. And it's, you can find that anywhere in indigenous systems. Because you hear this term often enough, but we're spiritual people. And that's why the spirit of education is important as well. To remember that when you're, when you're learning, this may not actually be like a, like a spirit, so to say, but there is something there. But that's the only thing I can put a name to right now. But it's that, it's believing in that and believing in the spirit of intent as well that'll help you in your pursuing of knowledge. So that's also what indigenous education is. It's a pursuit of the knowledge, the knowledge. And it's the, and understanding that. And to kind of provide a little bit more background specifically about knowledge, knowledge is, knowledge is, is in everything. There's, and that's to put it very broadly, much like this question. But knowledge is understanding that how we are, is understanding how we are all connected. And how, and where that connection comes from. So for, for, within the last five years actually, there's a saying that's, that I've heard and that I really hold near and dear to my heart and in the language is The kina we at is your money do long. And the best way to describe that is all that is of the spirit. But that doesn't really quite make sense. So the best way to, and then another way to say that is everything is sacred. But it's that connection that, and understanding why do we call spirit the creator? It's, and then it goes back to the creation story where the first time that the spirit is acknowledged, aside from being the spirit is, how would I say it? There's the, there's a full phrase to say it, but there's a shorter way. And then that means there's but one, there's truly but one spirit that made everything. And then that helps you understand. By understanding that and understanding everything is sacred, you understand everything's connected. Because they all share that connection back to the spirit. And so that's the same thing with knowledge as well. You can all trace it back to the spirit. Doesn't have to be right from the creator itself. I don't really like that word because that's not all the spirit did. The spirit continues to do more. So I'll just say the spirit. Because once you trace that back to the spirit, you begin understanding knowledge a little better in an indigenous concept. Not concept, but an indigenous context, yes. Frame of mind was another one. But once you get that, you can begin to think about everything in a different way. The closest thing to that I can say that in Western terms is, and this isn't a, this isn't a, I'm going to reference, say we were all matter. It's the same thing. Like everything is energy. Everything is in a state of energy. It's a very similar concept. So indigenous people understood that for thousands of years before western science is just understanding that. So we all understood that connection. That connection is what we need to focus on too when we're, when we're learning. Because that extends back through lineages, family lineages. So everybody has a family lineage. So it, for myself, it would be, I have both my dad's patata goose lineage. And that could, can be traced all the way back to northern Wannapatae area. And then my mom's pegama gobble family lineage through her dad can be traced all the way back to the Georgian Bay area. And then, and then their mums and their dads and their so on and so forth. I know a little more on my mom's side than I do on my dad's side, but that's because they, they kept those stories alive here there. And it was a little harder here because everybody, because of the lifestyles that people were living at the time, which would have been this 80s, 70s, very post residential school for this region anyways. But it's, and then that knowledge then can be traced back to you. So the way it's described is your grandparents, their grandparents, and then their grandparents seven generations back. And all lineages can be traced back to the spirit. So it's understanding that. So when you're acknowledging the grandfathers and grandmothers, what you're also acknowledging is you're acknowledging the spirit in that. So those lineages of knowledge can all be traced back. Lineage that has been, that knowledge that has been carried by a family can be traced back. And then their transmission of that knowledge from generation to generation is the education. Is the learning from the grandparents to the great grandparents. So the skills of hunting, the most relevant skills today would be hunting, fishing, like setting nets. Birch bark making and language, language, because families have specific languages that are specific language use that they use. And it's a little more, there's variations from family to family and they'll sometimes argue about that. But anyways, that's how we need to think about our education in an indigenous context is that it's a transmission from the lines. So when you take on knowledge from a line, you're taking on a family's knowledge too. So if you're learning language from someone say from Tamagami or out in Minnesota or elsewhere, you're taking on that family history and that family knowledge as well. Some of it, that may not be all of it, but it's how that family would use that word in the context of a word that you'd be learning as a language learner. So that's indigenous education, the transmission from family lineages that can be traced back to the spirit. In what ways do you personally pass on the knowledge that you carry? So this is a good instance because I'm not just telling the recording and the people listening who would be listening to the recording. I'm also telling you the interviewer, the interviewer. So because you the interviewer are also learning something from this, you're also going to relay that information through this recording. So this is one instance of a transmission and transference of knowledge. And I guess that's how you got to look at the tobacco too, is what's in the request. So yeah, so that's an example. But in my own case of transferring knowledge to kids is... So working at my mom's school, Kinimo Shin, we're a land-based program and we're trying to do everything we can with the kids on the land. Of course it gets really cold and then they can't stay out too long and they just freeze. But I just say, I'm ready to say just suck it up and stick them in a snow bank. The snow's deep enough to keep you warm. But some of them manage and some of them are having really good times while they're here and they're exercising and they're living on the land and they're doing what their grandparents would have done generations ago. That's what I'm helping teach as well as not only catching language from the language teachers but I'm also using that language that I'm learning from them and using it with the children. So that's the transmission of knowledge as well and transference. But also we actually take quite a few professional development days even though they're not quite, they wouldn't be standard professional development but when you apply the, I guess Indigenous context, when you apply it to professional development, you can really see how anything can thus be professional development. But specifically ceremonies are a good example of that because I'm actually taking time out of my day, my week to go and listen to the leaders of the ceremony and conductors and take that time to learn from them how they do it and then learning how to do it. So it's observation and then not only that, you're helping them because they can't do it all by themselves, they need help. So that's what I'm doing and then we get quite a few of those to go actually listen, actually sit and listen and then you're always asked to think a little more about that or if you're stuck on something just to be patient because the answer will come and remembering to have that respect for the spirit because the spirit can always answer because in my own personal experience I've had instances where I've been thinking about something and thinking about something and then when I say I'm dreaming I'll be shown something that's a good time when the spirit has answered you. So that's one instance. Language is another thing that's very key and we're at a critical time. It's almost at a point where you should drop everything and just focus on language but if you dropped everything and focused on language you couldn't live and it's already hard enough to make a living on language. But all the old people and when I've noticed this and when I've talked to them they said I'm very proud of you for beginning to speak, to begin to understand because it wasn't two generations back where my grandparents were getting hacked into Ojibwe and my great-grandfather said to my grandma actually I don't know why I bother to speak to you in English because if I speak to you in Ojibwe you don't understand either way I tell you. And that's all I can think about is the family. Going back to the family lineage is how proud they would be and not just myself but all the family lineages how proud they would be to see their five times great grandchild speaking the language and then they go back and it goes back and how proud that would be because that's also an act of healing is to reclaim what's yours. I hate to say reclaim, it's another good one. Revitalize. To pick that up again, to pick up those knowledge systems and those systems of understanding that they understood and they used to see their grandchildren pick that up again would be very moving for them. So those are my thoughts on language as well and how the point we're at. But I guess that kind of goes into what stories you're teaching for your great-grandchildren to be able to talk about. So I know myself, I'm going to do a short little history is that, so my mom's adopted father is Eddie Benton Benet and he is one of the last interpreters of Birchbark Scrolls. He's one of the last carriers of the creation story songs that go with the creation stories. He's one of the last people to fully know the knowledge in its fullness or as full in this time. So in this time frame because he had teachers when he was growing up too and they had knowledge bundles that were more full. But now we're coming to a point where it's not getting smaller it's there but it won't physically be available. So that would be my mom and then that and myself. So and my sister's my hall and then all his other grandchildren as well and his other daughters, so other children. So those creation story songs and then the knowledge of that bundle I'm sure he would love to see be passed on but he's at a stage in his health where it's really hard to arrange anything like that so those might just go with him when the time comes. But they can always come back. They can always find a way back and that's okay. I don't want to say you need to be okay with that but it's okay if it happens or it doesn't happen because you need to just understand it the stories need to be you need to understand what's being said to you in a sense. I know well West not so much here but out West when they speak language it sounds very musical so it would sound like they're singing a song to you and they would sing back and forth. And if you listened to that it's like they're conveying a full concept to one another in the through a song and that's how it's said is that a song is a concept you're trying to tell someone. So that's how that language is and that's how those songs are is they're trying to convey a concept and an understanding to you. So one of the first song my adoptive grandfather sang sang the first creation. I won't sing it over the recording but the words I'll give anyways because the words are the words. You can't you're as much as you can find the tune you're probably not going to find the tune but it was like the words were naanin ewezi'an naanin ewezi'an enanamon What the concept is conveying is that am I alone? It's almost like a singular the way it was described was it's the recognition that I might be alone because that's the first song in creation and you may have heard the Jim Dumont talk about the creation story or there was a meme one time and it went around on Facebook and it said how do you like your coffee and it said in the beginning before the beginning there was darkness that's where you can place that song is that before there was anything that's what's here, that's what that song is saying there became a self-awareness in the darkness so like those songs most likely won't be passed on a lot of them have been sung his son recounted that 43 of the 64 songs have been sung in this time or that he's heard that the son has heard he's heard 40 feet or something like that so you have what you have and you can't change that there's other examples of transference of knowledge there's another man who comes from Minnesota and his names I don't know if you've heard Lee Staples you know the name, yeah because he has a book about how to do funerals like traditional funerals traditional Nishinaabe funerals and I really want that book but I can't order it on Amazon but he it's interesting though because it carries from my understanding is it carries a lot of the knowledge on what needs to be done for Nishinaabe when they pass away but no tobacco was was offered from what I can understand and that's an interesting circumstance because that's knowledge just being put out there but at the same time it's he's concerned about the people who maybe aren't being best way to say this is sent home in the proper manner to understand why he wrote those books and it's hard enough to find a conductor of those ceremonies for example funeral ceremonies, funeral rites because they don't happen often enough there might be a big resurgence of them now that people are beginning to want to live a more I guess the phrase is traditional I want to be more traditional and so for them that book would be a good example for wanting to learn so things that I would like to no, things that need to pass on would be like being able to extend and have the right to extend people into societies so whether it's like Sundance, Madeleine Wabano or any other society societal lodge or medicine lodge is to have those rights transferred and continue as well as the rights, funeral rites because if you don't, you can and it was explained this past funeral for Josephine Mondalman is that although you may know the rights in life and you may know what's coming up in life as a spirit, it'll be the first time you're hearing them because that's how that change is described is you're going from physical to a spiritual life to spiritual life in that transition of death so that's how that that's why it's important for those rights to get passed on and then of course there's other life event things that should happen too those kind of rights need to happen and should continue but that's easier because there's a lot of younger people and it happens happening more often you see lots of people doing their very fast vision quests, first hunt things like those so I'm not too concerned about those ones in particular I'm concerned about the very specific and done very often stories and rituals and rights that happen so what is your vision for indigenous education for the next 10 years? it's hard it's a hard one to say people have been answering these two waves of what they fear in I guess a more realistic view of what's been going on and then there's been that more what they hoped for so if you want to double whammy it or if you wanted to just share it as you see that question it really depends on how indigenous people want to assert sovereignty over themselves that's how I vision education so again that's two very different ways it can be will continue to be supported from iNACL and look for those hand out from the government to continue funding our kids to go to public school, Ontario school and post-secondary and it can continue as long as the sun will shine and the rivers flow going back to the treaties it can continue that long if we allow it it's not a bad idea and people always have this idea because it's been probably ingrained on them I know it was ingrained on my grandparents to be the white man and then my mom took that on us too you gotta be a good student, you gotta work hard but I was never a good student I'm okay at best but the vision then is do we continue down the same road, status quo receiving support from the government or do we take our education into our own hands and really start supporting the fullness of what I just talked about ceremony, language the stories and even hunting and using the land is education really take that science and math and everything else I guess the government curriculum if people are really concerned about that we can find ways to include it in a way that it's not the focus but it'll be there if ever they want to go back to mainstream education so that's how that's what I'm thinking that will always be there mainstream education will always be there so it's up to the people to recognize that and to want to pursue that you can't make anybody do that you can make it known and it's up to them