 Nigeria's military has announced the deaths of Abu Musab al-Balnawi, the head of West African branch of the Islamic State group. The chief of defence staff, General Lockheed Rabbo, stated that he is dead and remains dead, not giving additional details. Now, ISWAP has not commented on the claims. It is reported that since then, thousands of Boko Haram fighters have surrendered, both to the military and reportedly to ISWAP. Joining us to discuss this is Dennis Amakri. He is a former assistant director of the Department of State Services, DSS. Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Amakri. Good evening. Thanks for having me. It's interesting how the chief of army staff or defence staff said, I'd like to quote him directly. He says, I can authoritatively confirm to you that Abu Musab is dead, as simple as that. He's dead and remains dead. Now, this isn't the first time that we're hearing from the army that a leader of either Boko Haram or a terrorist group has been killed. And then in a few months, we see the same person and we see the same person again and again. So it makes us really wonder if we should hold on to this particular statement by Mr. Rabbo, or should we be a bit more critical because there's been a precedence? Well, the precedence was not with this particular person. That was with Boko Haram. And you know, Boko Haram, I personally know that they've had a change of leadership and the change had been with the same person, answering the same name. You know, they've done that as a propaganda ploy, but until finally, Shakao had to die because we were having almost about two or three Shakaos that were claiming to be the leaders. But anyway, in this particular case, Albanawi, who is the son of Yusuf, the original founder of Boko Haram, had, I think there was a fight and he died. And of course, you know, if the chief of defense staff had come out to say that, yes, he's dead this time, then I think he's dead. And what I want to use in confirming it will be the reaction of IS, that's Islamic State. Excuse me. But they seem not to have commented so far. They seem to be silent. Yeah, they've not commented so far. So does that mean that they, does that mean that it is real or does that mean that they're waiting for a comeback? I mean, you and I cannot tell, can we? Yeah, but yeah, we cannot tell. We are waiting because they are also trying to restart the guys. So we wait there. Let's go on. Now that the army has been able to get, you know, this person, everybody's wondering what should be the next line of action. We're hearing that there have been a lot, loads of these people surrendering to the army. We know that this has been happening, even though those were mostly Boko Haram members and some bandits, but we're hearing that more and more of these people are surrendering. Is this a sign that the war is being, is going to be one more than it used to be? Now that we hear that Boko Haram has been pushed or icewrapped to the fringes, is this a signal that the army is going to be having the upper hand from now on? It is a signal that something different is coming ahead, something good, so to say, because we have the two heads of the two factions. Icewrapped leader is dead, Boko Haram leader is dead. And I think if the military strategizes very well, this is the last time to make the last push and then get this war over with. Because as long as these two leaders are out of the way, I think it's an opportunity for our military to go ahead and do what they have to do. Now, there are questions that have been asked across boards, and I'm talking about for every country that has had to fight or deal with the issue of terrorism. So does killing the head of a terror organization mean that you have diminished their power or that you can put an end to that terrorist group? Or is it a tentacle kind of situation or a hydroheaded monster where you caught one and another grows from where you caught it? Okay, it's a tentacle kind of situation. It's a tentacle type of situation in the sense that if a leader of a terrorist group has been killed or died, it weakens the body, but it does not eliminate the whole idea. That's why today we have Al Qaeda. Although the leader of Al Qaeda, Bill Laden, is gone, but we have him. We have ISIS, that's Islamic State, headed by Baghdadi. And Baghdadi is also dead, but ISIS remains. So we can also have the leaders of Boko Haram and Iswab die, but we will still have that organization. Because remember, this is an ideological war. It's an ideological fight where the people who are fighting this is the belief system. But if the leaders are dead, it weakens their processes and management. And then of course, if the military will go in with more psychological operations in dealing with the hearts and minds of these fighters, there is a possibility that we could find an end to it. Of course, we are having a lot of people surrendering. I think that's a very good sign too. Let's talk quickly about banditry. Now, we know that that's been more in the news than the issues of Boko Haram or Iswab. And the army has told us that the army has successfully limited the operations and the bandits to only areas where they're dominant. While that is applaudable, I'm wondering what do you think can be done to limit the activities of these guys, not just to those areas, because wherever they're being limited to, the people in those areas are suffering. They are subjected to more and more abductions and more and more cases where you have to pay ransom to get people out of their custody. So how do we limit those activities to almost nothing or barely, you know, or bare minimum instead of them still having the upper hand in those areas? I think the military have to redouble its effort by pushing this people out of the country. You know, we have to push them out of the country. There are many facts to show that a lot of them are foreigners and then we cannot continue covering them in our borders. So there is need to push them out of the country. And if they are pushed out of the country, then we don't have the problem, much of that problem. But remember, there are copycats now. There are copycats who are behaving like these bandits. And then you have them outside Zamfala Katzina and, of course, Kaduna states. You know that Kaduna states, all the schools are closed down now. That means they are very, very active there. So outside those three states, we still have them. We have people behaving like bandits all the way in the expressway in Abuja, all the way down to even Niger states. So I think re-strategizing, I believe that the military is really strategizing, but there should be a push, a final push in dealing with this particular situation. Now killing these men is not enough, as we have already discussed in the course of this conversation. But how about looking at the reasons why these groups have been growing in their lips and bounds? Let's not forget young people are being introduced to these slipper cell groups every single day. And the radicalization process keeps, you know, it's a gift that keeps giving, unfortunately. How do we do, what do we do to really deal with the young people in our society so that they do not find these cause as alluring as they find it? Let's not forget, it's not just in Nigeria. Even across, I mean, in Europe now, they're making it a law of sorts, that if you join these people online and you find out that you can't do it, you cannot come back into the country because you're termed a terrorist, whether you were forced into it or not. But we're seeing a lot of it happen. Even the women are being radicalized. How do we deal? Because we need to deal with the cause so that we avoid the effects. So how do we go about it? Yeah, we definitely need to deal with this because it is first thing, and then we cannot really allow this thing to continue. And if you really want to deal with it, first, you have to look for the fundamental issues, the root causes of what we are seeing. What we are seeing right now are just symptoms. They are basic symptoms. And if you don't deal with those root causes, and the root causes are simple, everybody knows them. Unemployment, poverty, on the lack of education, all kinds of things that people are suffering. And you find out that people are even crossing the desert to go all the way down to Algeria, Morocco, to cross the ocean there and then drown and die. Why are our suits moving out of the country to go and then find for greener pastures? Why can't we do something for them here? You know, with all the monies that we hear have been stolen and recovered, why can't we create something for them? You know, you have to deal with these fundamental issues. If you don't deal with these fundamental issues, just pursuing the Boko Haram or Iswa fighters, it's just the surface. We are scratching it. We have cro-cro on our hands and we are putting balm on it. What we need to do is to drink the right medicine that will root it out from the inside. So I think it's very, very important. But that responsibility surely falls on the plate of our government, and I'm not just talking about the federal government, I'm talking about government at all levels. And this is a failure, of course, on their part. So looking at what we have spoken of now, the fact that government has failed, and looking at how they're dealing with the issue right now, does it show that they're ready to put an end to this? Because you see, what we're hearing in the news right now, the biggest headlines are that a certain political party is about to have its congress. Another political party is having in-fighting as to where they can zone. But the thing that's making our headlines is not what the people need. So again, are we really ever going to make this a thing of the past? Looking at the kinds of people that are leading us? I think this is a very, very golden opportunity for the president, President Mohamed Buhari, to write his name in gold in this country, if he can go ahead and take care of this situation. Because you see, the politicians are back to their game, and then they believe that they, you know, come 2023, they are going to go ahead and rig themselves back into government, they don't care. The other day I was seeing a video where somebody of a particular party was giving out cash, was giving out money to people who are standing in line. Now you're doing this with the hope that when the election comes, you will just bribe your way through or you rig your way through and then become the leader again of a country that has continued to suffer. So it is very, very important we have to face this. And the president have that opportunity, like I said, to do it because it is out of his hands now. The politicians are gone, they are gone. They have left him to go and do what they want to do. But he can arrest this situation because I don't see even elections taking place in 2023 if these conditions continue to exist. I'm just curious because the president has barely two years to be in office and he's had six years to effect a change. He did not. What's the guarantee that he's even going to be bothered when he's on his way out? He has his back facing us. You might be surprised if the president comes out and makes certain announcements, certain announcements, it will change things overnight. You know, remember he's the president. Many things that many people don't know is that the president of a country, not only Nigeria, has tremendous powers and the one in Nigeria has mighty powers. So if he decides, if he has the political will to say that this is not going to continue and I'm going to change this country, turn it around, he can. He can because all the forces of security, all the forces of law enforcement are in his hands to use. So it means this is a choice that the president has and he would choose not to or he would choose to. So it means that it lies within his purview, but he has chosen not to do this in six years that he's been in office and then one day by the stroke of luck or maybe an angel from heaven would touch the president's heart and then boom, he would do it because that's what I think that you're saying. That's what I think you're saying. Finally, we all know that the Sahel region of Africa is experiencing gun-running, we're seeing all of these cases of terrorism, Senegal, I mean all of those countries, they seem to be having their fair share, but they all have homegrown methods of dealing with this issue and they seem to be having an upper hand except a few countries that also have issues with governance and the likes of it. I'm wondering because our president is seemingly, used to be, I think he still is the head of ECOWAS, and he's always sending an envoy to these countries. They have these conversations and they have these meetings. Why is it so difficult for us to also see what these people are doing, those who are winning this war, to adopt it and also have a homegrown way of dealing with this issue? Because it seems like we're being dragged in several directions. I personally don't believe that any of the other countries are winning this war because they are all in the same basket right now. Because when you look at it, look from Mali all the way down to Cameroon, it's the same thing. Remember, there was a coup in Mali and of course ECOWAS wanted the people in Mali to hand over to a democratic government. They have not done it till today. Guinea has a coup and then of course they wanted ECOWAS and then of course Africa Union wanted them to do the same thing. They have not done it till today. Chad is under military regime right now. Although they say that military regimes are very very popular, but these countries have stuck to it and of course ECOWAS will not be able to change it. And for many reasons, you know, you find out that ECOWAS number one finance, they cannot finance a standing army. When we went to ECOMOG it was Nigeria that went there to go and flush out the rebels and there was success. But right now Nigeria has its own problems at home, you know, so it will not leave its problem and start going to solve another man's problem. So the problem continues. The president was very worried when Mali was taken over by the military. He said the former president there twice and then of course they said no and they continue to hold on to power. So it is dangerous because when these things start happening other countries are also looking at it because the fundamental problem they all have are the problems of poverty, lack of education, all kinds of bad health, no health care and all those kind of things that worry all of them. So we have to be very very careful when we're dealing with this because if you look at the long run, these are things that these are bigger threats that are facing the whole Sahel region, you know, and we have to be careful. All right. Well, Dennis Amakura is former deputy director, assistant director of the Department of State Services and we want to appreciate you for being part of the conversation. Thank you very much for having me. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll bring you quickly the highlights of this week and all the interesting conversations we have had from Monday up until yesterday. But before then, I'd like to say thank you and I hope you have a great weekend. I am Mary Annicole. Sometimes when it gets most of these umbrellas and these criminals, they will parade them in the public, parade them in the public to watch these criminals to, you know, demonstrate how they carry out their criminal activities. That is an erroneous process by the police system. So that was where Kibnab took the boom, the Kibnab market took the boom because the risk implication in Kibnab is very and is very low compared to the risk implication in roughly. So members of this group last have sought their source to create and for Russia's accumulation. So I'm sitting there thinking we can write the constitution as much as we want. But if these people, the politicals, that we have now, I don't want the constitution, they will always find a way of passing us in it. You'd be shocked if one goes into atomizing some of the laws we have, which are that have been made so functionally, so functionally are useless because of the integrity of the Niger political class, any form of, any form of legislation, or any form of rule necessary when it comes to, you know, partying it. The current commissioner of police in Lagos State, Mr. Otumos, I hope I got the pronunciation right, has been very disregarding the rule of law. The man seems disconnected from democracy. He cannot appreciate why citizens should spread themselves. He cannot understand why Nigeria should be a grip, why negotiations should come out to spread the opinion on issues of concern. And he had consistently, over time, calmed down on peaceful protesters, assaulted journalists, led invasions of protest venues, peaceful protest venues, and he continues to serve the corrupt elites without any regard for human rights, without any regard for democracy, without any regard to his statutory responsibilities. But to your question, we need to say clearly and emphatically, there is nothing under the constitution, there is nothing under the police act of 2020, there is nothing under the laws of Lagos State, or any other law for that matter in this country that empowers the police to detect of what ravine citizens should gather peacefully and express themselves. Is it ideal just to respite? Are we talking is it parliocentric or artistic reason? Do we have analogousness of ideologies? Because maybe you met and eventually you succeed, which is actually the other. But if you met and eventually you succeed, at the end of the day, we'll still be back to where we are today, or even worse. But you know, subsets first. Let us also not forget, nothing tried, nothing gained. That is one. Two, I think we are also exploiting the infamy of the present administration. And also don't forget that these measures we are talking about, we are only seeing the lights of Bogalo and Co. These are factors that won't be populated by a lot of disgruntled people in the PGP and in the AKs.