 How does the welfare system fit into this are we planning to eliminate it because I'm pretty sure once again That's another top. That's another Topic I think both left left leaning right leaning doesn't matter where you're in the spectrum. Everyone agrees that model is broken. Yeah Okay, so Where you stand on that also has to do with your where you tend to stand a little politically So in general most people agree that that this should not replace all services because if you have a disability You need some extra money because you're on a disability sure you might need some extra support If you have a mental illness you you need some extra support It's not like you're gonna fire all the social workers like people some people just need some help to get through whether they get through Or something will need to help permanently that's the whole point of disability insurance that we could all get hurt It could happen to any of us, right? This is this is for all of us, right? But what most what everyone agrees on on both sides of spectrum is that This is better than things that that are very similar to just pure welfare Payments because it takes away the bureaucracy it takes away the stigma You don't have to wait in line for someone to to say if you're worthy of help You don't have to prove what you did to be worthy of that help like this is something that we all just get because we're alive It's just like like it's like you have access to roads and drinking water You have access to money for basic needs so there's no more stigma in it No one has to feel like a criminal because they can't work with our modern-day wealth Like for example, the reason why welfare is broken is a sentiment is broken. So let's say you're like a Struggling mother or father and you have one or two kids, right? And so there's kind of the incentive is broken because it's like okay, let's say let's say if that individual makes x amount more Let's say 2k more than the threshold. He or she loses those benefits Right why on earth then would that person work harder just to make the extra 2k when they're getting all these benefits, right? So let's talk about that so So it's a perverse incentive now In fact, I've heard stories of people who just they want to do black market work Under the table because they don't want to lose their benefits Yeah, see so so basic income actually encourages work because you keep the money you have and in the two methods of basic income I mentioned in the negative income tax method You keep you start to lose it slowly as your income grows So you're still better off working like if you're maybe you have a job for like you make 25,000 year Maybe instead of having your full bi of like 18,000 year you only get an extra 10 So but you're still better off with 10 more, right? Or in the dividend approach, they're interesting and Andrew Yang has been Critiqued by people on the far left that hey, why are you saying that? You can choose a thousand bucks a month in If you're better off than your current support systems Well an interesting point is that okay? Well, maybe a thousand bucks a month might be less what some might be getting now But if they work they lose everything they're getting versus if they work and they can keep a thousand bucks a month Encourages you to work. Yes, so the dividend approach fundamentally incentivizes work And that's what people who think that people are lazy will stay at home They're just wrong because like there's no evidence people don't work from again a hundred five thousand people were in clinical trials already And who doesn't want more money? And if someone like absolutely just just doesn't want to work for some reason That's probably like such a small fraction of the population. That's a demonized as policy They'll do so well for so many people just because of that is just that's just like Charlie Munger has a good saying show me the incentive Show the outcome and so like yeah, ideally we would then replace the modern welfare system with like a UBI system slowly Yeah So again both sides agree that replacing a lot of the system at least the parts that are the most similar to what the cash would do It is good, but but then you have the extremes like people extreme right like Charles Murray would do a with absolutely everything And then and then people in stream laughs. I mean there's certain programs that they would they would maintain I mean nobody wants to end again funding for mental health, you know Cam H and Toronto like what is up to the UBI right like probably less people go because you've less stress But you know, we need to maintain support for disability needs to mean support for like certain Interventions that are required by society Now I'm not an expert in these things so I can't tell you which they are but but in general there is agreement on all sides That yes replacing things that are are directly welfare would be done So you'd have a reduction in government reduction headcount in government, you know government's good at writing checks and And you would achieve that streamlining of government services. So it's actually smaller governments You know, so like another analogy like to offer is that yes more money's running through government doesn't mean government's bigger Like was WhatsApp a big company when it sold for like $19 billion dollars. No, it only had 50 people in it So even though half of half of 500 that I'm sorry Even though like almost a billion people were using WhatsApp doesn't mean what's up was a big company It was a streamlined small efficient company same with government. If we have a UBI, it's a smaller government Even though there's more cash running through it, but but government's really good at writing checks Would this be a federally run program this wouldn't go province province Well, I ideally it would be federal but it depends. I mean Canada's health care system Initially was was championed. I think it was in in Manitoba and then eventually other Other provinces wanted to adopt it and then it was adopted federally So, you know, there might be one smart bold province that does it first and then everyone else is gonna see the economic Answer that makes sure we should do this everywhere. We're waiting for I think it Canada's first. I think the world will follow And so what would because I know you're running a bunch of initiatives right now. Yeah to make to push this In your in your mind, what would you say is the next initial steps that you need to take for this to actually become a reality Me personally or like Canadians. Oh you you speak on behalf of you Yeah, so what I'm doing now is I got really grateful like my business is doing quite well It's I have more time now in addition to that to to work on this activism stuff So, I mean the unique the unique take that I'm taking now is Is it anything that pushes the the economic narratives around it because everyone understands the social narratives We understand that that people be healthier We understand that child success rates will improve more better graduation rates less mental health You know mental health improvements. Everyone knows those things the impacts of poverty The fact of solving poverty will actually solve save a lot of money for the government too in terms of reduced crime and in terms of Yeah, there's a lot of things like that. Sorry So my focus is making the case that it's also good for the economy because if people understand that I think it'll it'll face less resistance in the federal 2024 elections and any provincial elections before that so So the group that we're organizing is organizing like funding and organizing marketing and press PR and Social media influencer campaigns around things that will push this economic narrative. So the first example was last week Mention earlier the Canadian Center of Economic Analysis put a paper about the economic impact of Canada's the Canada child benefit So my team went to work with the social media campaign like spreading that idea We had an amazing video that summarized the key points You know, we made we made resources available for for the press to ask questions So we have ideas to do more things like that, you know last year We launched the CEOs for basic income again to provide the people to actually show Canadians that in fact business There is business support for this because if all they hear from a special interest group saying like low tax low tax low tax they think that's what the business community wants No, that's what special interest groups whose mandate is that what we'll say So I want to show that in fact in my own experience like there's overwhelming support in the business community for basic income Like all the private founder people that that we hang out with like four fifths of them Immediately said they sign a letter because that they want to see a Canada thought poverty. They want to see like us have UBI So I just organized a letter to get 120 CEOs to sign it and there it is it's online right now So eos for basic income dossier, so we'll be doing more with that group try and expand it out Maybe get to 300 CEOs maybe get to a thousand So I'm personally focused on again more campaigns that will Will make people understand that basic income is not about welfare. It's not only about ending poverty It's about evolving our economic system to its potential