 All right. So what are we going to do? Barriers? That sounds good. So do we, how long do we think we'll take on barriers? 10 minutes? Five. Yeah. I mean, it can't take forever. All right. Well, here we are giving us some presidential debate profiling tips and we're going to start off with barriers. Greg. Okay. So when you watch these guys, everyone is going to have their own style. Trump has a very specific style and he's going to be more animated and almost goofy for a guy his size at times. And on the other hand, you'll find that Biden has a very contained until he forgets where he's at kind of a posture. Barriers are also going to be related to that posture and how they normally function. A barrier can be anything as simple as this, putting a pen between me and you all the way up to a podium or that. If you remember Hillary Clinton in the last election, she would rarely leave the podium. I always would say she's like a chained elephant. She would put one hand on it and walk back and forth and sway. That's because she needed that space and to be comfortable. She got much better as the election went on. And by the end, there's that famous scene where Trump and Hillary both have microphones and they're sending out front and they look like they're doing a duet of, I got you, babe, because they're both out in the open, but it can be anything figurative or physical to create a barrier between you and that person. Chase. Greg, you hit them all, but here's some stuff to look out for. When do those things happen? When does someone come out from behind a barrier? Because this is typically a positive thing and even just a little bit. Let's say I have a podium right here and all of a sudden while they're asking a question, I just move a little bit closer, a little bit further behind that barrier. That is notable. So it's not just like, aha, I saw a behavior. We need to understand what was being spoken, what was being asked about before we saw that behavior start to happen. So small little things all the way down to someone's jacket being buttoned or unbuttoned. Clothing is also a barrier. And when you're sitting at a restaurant with someone or sitting across the table, the stuff on the table in between you and them, those are barriers as well. And a persuasion tip that you could always use is try to remove as much as possible. We want a limited amount of things on the table between you and another person. And I have a friend of mine who's goes to a business meeting unbuttons his jacket, sits down and as the rapport gets going and he just takes his tie, loosens it, and then the rapport builds a little bit more and he'll pull his tie off, roll it up and stick it in his pocket a third of the way through the meeting or two thirds of the way. So that's a gradual barrier removal process. It's very effective for interviews, interrogations, dating, wherever the heck you want to use it. But that's what to look out for. Those small barrier movements, a little arm across the stomach, a little hand in front of the groin or two hands in front of the groin. So I'm stepping a little bit behind one of those podiums and I'll pass it off to Scott. All right, great. One of the things that I usually see and look for when it comes to someone behind a podium is a lot of times they'll not only they grab it, they'll put their stomach against it. You'll notice that Bill Clinton, when he was doing that, I did not. That crooked finger pointing out as he was looking at who will litter, I think. He's pulling that thing so far in him. It's almost behind him. He's so far into it. When you see that, that's when you see someone almost in panic. That's when they're grabbing it not only as a barrier, but it's like, well, I guess it would be. It's like the ultimate barrier at that point. You're blocking everything out with that. And then you'll see as someone talks, they may give it, they may give it this as you talk to him. Now you're talking about crossing your arms and putting your, your hand up like this. This doesn't necessarily mean there's a barrier and they're not into what you're talking about. They may be more comfortable that way. When they're, when they're doing that, they may be more, they may be cold or something as they're doing this. So don't always look at the, at, at things like crossed arms as barriers. That's one of the most famous myths there are. But a lot of times you'll see someone do, do this is there, but they'll be thinking when I'm thinking about something for some reason, I do this. If I, by myself, I'll do that. It doesn't mean I'm burying anything. It just means I'm doing that cause it helps me think for some reason, but there'll be other times where I'm doing this, where I'm sort of feel like it, it, it helps me think better cause I'm, I feel protected. So that person may feel protected a little bit. It's not, I feel protected for somebody's going to hurt me, but it feels like I can get inside my, my head a little bit easier when I do that. So that's why you may be seeing as well someone trying to get in, trying to get deeper into thought as they, as they start doing that. That's why you see them pull on their chin or doing those types of things. As they become comfortable and try to get into their head without breaking away from you, you know, but now in debates, when you, what you'll see is a lot of times when it comes to two barriers is especially with Trump, when he was like, and I think Mark hit earlier when he gives it that thing from the, he shoots from the middle here, but at the same time, Mark, what you call the truth plane, that's where he's keeping that thing. You know, he comes out that way and he'll also jut his head out from that as well. If we all watch that, the interview Trump did with Chris Wallace and we didn't, we ended up not doing it because there's really not a lot there. It's a lot of the same thing. It's a lot of the same gesturing forward with those hands and then head coming out. So his hands are while they're, he's being open. He's actually using them as a barrier because as the insides of his, of his palms come in, that could be a barrier. I'm not sure it is because he does, he has odd behaviors like that all the time, but those are some of the things that, that I would say, say to look for, see how close they are to the, to the podium. They're going to be trained not to get up next to it and all that, but watch the distance they have from that. And a lot of things Jason would say are right on the money too. Just a little bit of that movement toward there. They may be trying to, they may be trying to find comfort in doing that. Not that it's an adapter, but they, they'll feel more protected. Mark. Yeah. So I train my clients who are trying to do exactly what people are trying to do in these debates to do as few as possible barriers. And his, his why is that when insufficient data, we default to negatives. And so our brains that are trying to create this leader in our minds, if they don't have information, they're not optimist. They're pessimists. We would rather see somebody being aggressive with their body language than not see the aggression of the body language. We'd rather see stuff out in the open than it behind closed doors. And if we don't see stuff, if we have insufficient data, we create a negative story and sometimes we'll even catastrophize about the individual we're watching. So open gestures without barriers, play better, get you a better response than barriered gestures. So, you know, on the whole, I would be training my clients to do open gestures, come away from the lectern or the podium, get away from objects so they don't get support from those as well. The less barriers, the better in an audience feeling positive about them. So very simple stuff. If you can, as Chase was saying, if you can eradicate the barriers or countermeasure the barriers in some way, you'll have a more optimistic audience around what you're saying. And the nonverbal behaviors will frame what somebody's saying. So if I say to you, you can trust me on the budget. It's very different from me saying you can trust me on the budget or you can trust me on the budget or you can trust me on the budget or you can trust me on the budget. The moment you can't see my hands, my guess is, is you go, well, hang on, can I trust you? These other gestures, you have more of a of a thought about me, an idea about me or Mark's too aggressive or Mark is decisive or Mark seems open to suggestions around the economy or the budget. Here, your brain goes, well, I can't see his hands. So let's just make up the worst idea we can about the way he's going to handle the economy. So more openness, more vision will give you more positivity. That's the way I look at barriers.