 Thank you so much for being with us this morning on the breakfast in Plasti V Africa. We're looking at a second conversation and that's a national concern following the flooding situation in Kogi State. Now, the reason for this, we know that flooding is a national issue, but the fact that there's a connection, Kogi State is a link between the North and the southern parts of the country. Thousands of travellers and residents of Lokoja, Kogi State capital, are currently stranded as the city has been overrun by heavy flooding. The Lokoja-Abuja Road, which connects the North and the South, has practically been caught off and thereby paralysed in economic activities, including food supply chain from the North to the South and vice versa. Widespread of Kogi State are under water after the Niger and Benwear Reaver broke their banks, and Lokoja seats are the confluence of the Niger and Benwear Reavers. Roughly 196 km highway is one of the most critical roads in the country, being the major link between the North, the South, for the movement of people, goods and through vehicular transportation. The government meets flooding in all the parts of Kogi State and in Nigeria. Generally, we have joining us now to make sense of this critical situation. Professor Joe Ebigwai, who is an environmentalist. Thank you so much, Joe Ebigwai, for joining us. Yeah, thank you very much. My pleasure to be with you. So quickly, I'd like to share your thoughts on the development. I mean, looking at the flooding situation, the banks have been broken. What are your thoughts? Yeah, thank you very much. I stayed in Lokoja in 1997. And I'm well familiar with the environment. And then I think I was staying at Dankulu. And that is the area that housed the newer Niger. Inland waterways authority. When we talk about, generally, there are several cultural factors. And then some of them massive rainfall, overflow of the river, climate change, deforestation, the effects of snow, dam failure, building on flood plains, inadequate maintenance of drainage channels, waste dumping, and the weak enforcement of regulation. These are some of the cultural factors of flooding. But nonetheless, in Nigeria and in Kogistik in particular, what we've been witnessing are a combination of factors. One, massive rainfall. Two, the overflow of the river banks, climate change. Four, building on flood plains. Five, inadequate maintenance of drainage channels. Six, waste dumping. And seven, weak enforcement of environmental policies and regulations. These are the seven factors that are playing out in the Kogistik flooding. So about, for this particular situation, I mean, the reason for all of this, unfortunately, we're unable to have the commissioner in Lokoja for environments really to talk about this right. He actually was unable to connect with us. I'm sure we would probably understand. But it's been reported that, you know, Lokoja is a confluence of the Niger and Benway River. And so it's more like an outflow, and that's what it is. But I'd like to find out from you, do you think that anything would have been done because prior to, you know, 2022, there were predictions that, you know, some states should raise up for the heavy downpour? Yeah, certainly, because we normally have a lot of warnings from nine men, even at the beginning of each year, and they take it from states that are prone to flooding. Now, when we look at the mitigation measures that the state government would have put in place, one, that is the importance of regulation. We have time planning those. When you get to where the Lokoja is, and to where the Ganaja is, the area you have to function, you know, where we are coming from, the Lokoja itself. Now, you see some little specimens are the flood plains. Flood plains are where the water empties into. When you build chunks, when you decide to drill, to put something like hydrological channels, something like irrigation, you know, what you have just done, you may have bypassed, you may have obstructed also the hydrological pathway. Water will definitely fill from an internal high concentration from a high to a lower high. So when you now drill, because you now also the channels, because you want to do irrigation, or you build a shanty there, you may be building on hydrological channels, and those are some of the cultural factors in that Lokoja area. So there are weak impacts. There are weak enhancements of environmental policies, some planning laws. So those are some of the cultural factors. I expect the performance of this piece to have access proactively by enforcing these regulations, making sure that there are no arbitrarily opening of hydrological channels for whatever cost, including irrigation. No building of shanty on the flood plain if they have done this too, and also mitigating the effect of waste dumping. You see, when you go over there, you see people just dumping waste on the river, as if the river is an endless reservoir. What happens in an endless reservoir if you certainly get to a stage where that is carrying capacity will be reached. And when the carrying capacity is reached, all what it does is that it overflows in time. These are some of the mitigation measures I expect that it could be set up to have put in place at the end. But with all of this, I mean, some persons have actually stated that, you know, it should be the time where an emergency, a state of emergency should have been declared, especially when it's been considered as a crisis. There's a disconnect. Already we have, you know, some quarters saying that we're unable to meet certain criteria because we can't have the movement of goods from a certain region to another. So there's a disconnect between, you know, the north and the south and part of the country. Do you think that, you know, there should be a declaration of a state of emergency? Well, I do not think it has nothing to do with that point because I think it seems that we can still reach it. Yes, it's a route for the transport, the hauling of goods between the north and the south. Well, you agree with me that it is not only the route. Like for example, you can take from the north now to your water bridge and you are in Benway and then to Enidu and you are down to the south. So there are other transport corridors. But nonetheless, we should look at this corridor because if we take the Abuja to Lokoja and some part of the folks in the land into the western corridor, there's a food movement over there. If we don't want to take through the Ibadon, Obamashaw, Niger State Heights. But this area needs to be fixed. Why? Because it has an impact on the roads itself. They are consulting the roads and when you keep having a lot of floods on the roads, it tends to get and limit the integrity of the roads. And these are some critical elements we have to do that because if we are doing roads and we are allowing floods to overflow the roads, what it means is that sooner and later there will be failures on the inspections of the homes and it will equally require money to fix it. So it would be better what we need to do now as a state and a nation to look at those people living on the flood plain as quick as possible relocate them to higher ground then restore the hydrological channels as it was and before you know it will be limited. So a lot of people are saying that this is a trickle down effect from the Niger Republic and of course Niger is thinking what it is. So it's an overflow. What do you think that could have been done in that respect that this is actually coming from an external environment to our country? Well you see, we have a weak management of weak enforcement of policy, not only environmental policies as well generally in Nigeria. We don't take the Nigerian business as our business. We take it as general government business as our economy. You see and well if same environmental issues we can see it has a way of bouncing back to our sector. In fact because the environmental impacts are so intangible we don't feel it it's not suitable we tend to neglect it because it causes more individual damage to our life. So yes what is playing out in the COVID flooding it's a microcosm it's an after effect of the general malaise that is deploying the Nigerian state as a nation. I agree. Well so as a means first of all we also have reports if you look at the measures that have been taken there's provision for international Kenu or Kenus I mean I don't know how to say that but that's been made so you have this means it's been put out for people to move from one point to the other. I'd like you to access the response you know from the government at the state and at the you know federal level do you think that this response is efficient to the issue that's on ground? Yes providing providing means transporting the impacted persons and impacted communities from the flood lanes or from one point to the higher ground if they welcome development these are some emergency relief mechanisms and strategies that are usually put in place when such occurred but not delayed it is like treating the symptoms and leaving the disease the disease is that there are factors responsible for the flooding we need to talk to them we need to speak our actions need to speak to those cultural factors moving people from one point to another to avoid the problem is a way out but it must be treated holistically when we are doing this we must be tackling the cultural factors of the flood and that is where the rain is changing Professor Joseph this is more like if you look at the pictures that we have in front of us in front of us these houses have been submerged so it means that lives and properties are threatened it's a situation of life and death and we're talking about the security or the response time and the response measure of the government whether at the federal because you're saying that oh it hasn't gotten to a point where we should declare an emergency that really looks very saddening houses are overtaken by the flood it's not just a one situation look at that it's really saddening and so one would think that at this point that the federal government there should be a state of emergency that's been declared and we should up our game in terms of ensuring that there are rescue measures to take out people from there so having to send boats or Kenu the way we would actually put it does that really address the situation do you think that we're able to you know save as much lives as we can with you know that means because people have been displaced from what we're seeing when you talk about state of emergency I what do you exactly mean because to me when we declare a state of emergency is to deploy all resources financial and human resources within your disposal to address a particular study and episode events you know when we do that if we do that and imagine now you're not destroyed okay the movement of environment the network all this you just go there and see what you see going to do is to put people together so that they harmonize that they harmonize all efforts in a thousand situations both the states that you work this should do with the rest of the state of emergency is what is declared all you need to do is to give a machine order to the people to the offices to the agencies involved in environmental issues whether from counseling to events of environment you know you have to work in a loop to addressing the situation not just saying that it's the state of emergency you know you don't need that work it's so heavy sometimes we just use it for just you can say what do you think it's the state of emergency it means that in extreme case you are removing the state government you are removing all apparatus of government in that state and replacing it with a federal one don't you really call for that you know no can't see people but they to this state arise the situation yes they can so all you need to do is for the government at the center to give them a machine order maybe this malady to to a halt so I mean we're still still concerned because to address a certain issue you need to understand what you know the issue is so when we begin to have cases where helicopters are being sent to rescue people is it the case of having helicopters where would they be landing is the issue we're talking about flood and the fact that you know the dam has actually been overflowed and there's a break right now and then you're having helicopters should do we really know what exactly we're dealing with are we really paying attention as much as we're saying it's not the entire country the entire nation we're talking about 36 including the FCT but we're saying it's one part and we see the you know the importance of you know this part of the country because of the link or the connection that it has to other parts of the country my question still remains are we really really do we really understand what we're faced with and are we taking the appropriate action as a people as a government in terms of response to this crisis yeah what should be what we are just doing as I said earlier is treating the symptoms now and but the greater problem is treating the disease if somebody is sick of HIV you start giving the person a grouping the person will not get well it will only be a temporary relief but not until you have the HIV from his blood system from his system before you can say that you are seizing so what we are doing is like a cosmetic thing now which is necessary we need to move people from the flood start to save their lives to higher grounds but the main question is how do we mitigate this in the future because if we don't occur even in community so we should have a long time plan and a short time plan the short time plan now is to move people to higher grounds to save lives and property but there should be a focus and a significant plan in place to mitigate in other states and in this state in the future and what is this we look at why is it we look at the cut-off factors of the overflow of the dam we usually look at what are the other factors that have that have made flooding in this area over the years which include waste dumping people getting on flooding Professor Joseph in big Y Professor Joseph I mean this is a long term we understand that that should be what we should look at we are talking about immediately now we have to we have to use if possible use a helicopter to pick people out immediately that is one of the rescue missions we should be doing right now then we look at it is it possible we look at where the dam the where the dam failed we look at it whether we can drain we can put channels from there to drain into the larger water body away from to follow the hydrological pathway that is one critical thing why evaporated people look at the point at where the dam failed then see what can be do to channel water to another something that does not have humans in that area Professor Joseph So in all of this we have had several reports about fuel scarcity in Abuja and we also hear that because of this movement of goods and services have actually been a big issue and so you have those who are moving with the products to another part of the country what should we expect you know the entire implication of all of this for the economy Professor Joseph Oh you say the economy is already stressed and so what's happening now is unfortunately and it's going to put most stress on the on the on the because we're not going to have some area and going to be cut off from supply of TMS and UPK and if that happens you will see you see in some parts of the country and if there are you know what it means that means people will start buying about 200 or 180 of the they may start to buy around 400 and that will also create some other issues people will start adulterating the products and if you put the adulterated products in your in your car or your generator or whatever to some other and all of this comes to removing the money that dies in a from your pocket so if you call that raise the poverty levels in the economy and that is a minus for the consumers Well thank you so much Professor Joseph Ebygwai for being part of the show this morning and sharing your thoughts our prayers and our heart is with Kogi State Thank you very much God bless you Well Professor Joseph Ebygwai is an environmentalist and enriches all the way from across the state Calabar Well that's the size of a conversation this morning if you missed out on any part of it it will be great for us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and do subscribe to our YouTube channel that's at Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle on Limax is at www.limax.tv and Glow TV apps anywhere in the world My name is Messi and I will see you on Friday.