 where Deaf West is going from here, what DJ has been doing, and so I'll just start our conversation. So DJ, I'd love to hear you talk a bit about how you got into theater and how you arrived at Deaf West. I was actually lucky enough to grow up in Riverside and then moved to East Florida. My parents had taken me to a Deaf West show, so they had taken me to several of their shows and that theater just became something that was in my art that just became a part of me. And after I graduated from Gallaudet University, I moved down there because I thought that LA thought, I thought they had the best artistic community of Deaf people, so I wanted to be part of that community and the biggest reason that community is there is because the Deaf West theater has been there. So that was kind of how I slowly became involved and started to just scrape by with jobs, cleaning floors, moved up to production and writing and just kind of worked my way up and I became the artistic dresser at the education Ed Warner retreat, Water Street. And I was there for three, I was there three and a half years ago and they had given me that position to account, so. Great, great. One thing that Deaf West theater did in 1991, so that was 25, we had our 25th anniversary this year. Well, it has really, really strong history. And I've always thought of Washington DC as having a very strong Deaf community because of Gallaudet there. New York has a lot of people just because it has a wonderful arts community and a robust cultural sector and also even Rochester, New York. So it's great to hear that Los Angeles also has a strong disability or a Deaf arts community. So could you talk a little bit about how, about Deaf West's approach to theater production, what the process is from conception to performance and how Deaf artists are incorporated with hearing artists? So our mission for the theater company is to bridge Deaf and hearing communities and bring them together through theater. But there's still, you know, we've got to look at our Deaf audience members first. You know, what is it that most is most important to them and the accessibility to the language, the sign language and making sure that everything in our show is signed or is captioned and is accessible. Then from there we can figure out the speaking parts. So our mission is to set that up, lead by example. You know, an accessible approach, welcoming hearing and Deaf patrons together and or theater to watch the same show, but through different lenses. And you can't just say that the hearing and Deaf people are having the same experience and feeling the same ways in each show, but at the same time, you know, they're having access to the same show and they can have these same discussions and we think that's a beautiful thing and should be happening more often. Also we want to emphasize that the Deaf audience members are the most important part of our company. The Deaf people give most of the funding to our theater, the ones who do that. And because of that, we want more artists. We want more theaters. We want them to be invested in our theater as opposed to hearing individuals who may be, you know, they're fascinated by our theater and then they leave after five years. So the Deaf audience members and the Deaf patrons, they know that we're here to stay and that they want us to continue and do more of what we're doing. So how is sign language or even captioning incorporated into the shows so that both hearing audiences and Deaf audiences are able to access it? Scribe that a little bit. Well, we are a bilingual approach to theater. So we put sign language front and center and sometimes we'll have a voice speaking actor in front of them, next to them or behind them during the show and there's a diverse way of approaching that. There's no rule for how we might do that. We would give our directors freedom to play around with whatever, we don't tell them or dictate, we can tell them you can try one of several things but they also know that from the Oregon Shakespeare Festival that there are limitations. For example, sign language, you can't have your back to the audience and be signing this way. You've got to make sure that you're front and center and signing visibly and also clearly. So that's a big part of our process. But first we like to play around with it during rehearsals and see what works and what doesn't work and then if we feel that this is becoming a problem or it's restraining us, then we figure that part out later. We actually have a huge, it's a huge process. For example, right now I'm speaking through an interpreter and the interpreter I just met today for the first time. So that kind of information and how you express those features through, it's a filter that you're getting filtered through. It's like any language. We've got a beautiful language and it's everybody that knows ASL, we play with that language. And it's mobile and the boundaries are constantly being broken and tested. So we wish we had a way to bring that to the spoken language. But at the same time, the audience members who are deaf, they say, hey, we wish they would have said this or they would have said that. They always have that disconnect between the two languages that happen. And sometimes they just get that connection and it works. I mean, if it happened all the time, that way it'd be boring. But we like to be able to play with different things. So does that answer your question? Yeah, I'm definitely interested in that process. Is it a longer process in the play development in the rehearsal process? Is it lengthened, is it also enriched in a way that other productions aren't? We actually have a team of ASL coaches for each of the actors. And they work and rehearse together and make sure that they're signing clearly. From the text, how that gets translated into sign and making sure that translation is appropriate and based on the writer's intent, different intent, different interests. There are many levels to that. So really, it's a long process and we tend to take about a week focusing on just reading the script and signing and the translation into sign language. And at the same time, we have to teach the hearing actors sign language along the way. So they've got to rehearse themselves and it's fascinating just how fast they learn it. It's not hard. It's just, it requires a commitment and an understanding and motivation. And by the end of the show, the hearing, they're going along just as well, well enough to converse with us actors that are deaf. They're just all together and it's a beautiful thing. I was able to see a little bit of that in action, not necessarily in person, but there were a lot of videos posted, video blogs that the actors posted. And you could see the camaraderie behind stage among the cast members and in the interviews that they did with the press, you could see the people that were double cast in the same role, the hearing and the deaf actors. They seem to have a real bond because they're playing the same character. So does that enrich the experience or the product that you're trying to achieve? The connection between them and do you ever have actors that don't get along in those pairs? You don't have to name names. Oh, definitely. Yes, you always have one or two bad ones. No, I'm kidding, I'm so kidding. But really, yes, each person has their own diverse, everybody brings something else. Some people pick it up overnight, some people really struggle and they have a hard time with it. And it's hard for hearing people to know how they feel. Sometimes you have to speak and sign at the same time. So that's a challenge for everyone, even me as a deaf person, I can't do that. So it's a challenge for all of them as well. And I think that number one, we have to recognize that everything is done in service of the play, of the production and in service of the story that's being told and everything else becomes secondary. You really have to look at what the experience should be to make sure that it's entertainment for our audience. And that's our responsibility to our patrons and our audience instead of focusing on the actors or all of the stuff behind the scenes. So there's a balance that we have to keep and we've got to keep that in perspective. And also, I wanted to mention that because we have that, so to speak, limitation of sign language, we're actually making art that is something new and it's something different. And it's the hearing actors through that experience, often they just, they love it, they fall in love with it, they keep coming back. So one of our actors who's from Broadway from Spring Awakening had mentioned that they'd been in many Broadway shows and it was the first time that they finally knew what to do with his hands. So that was kind of interesting to me. Instead of the issue of just having jazz hands, what do I do with my hands here? So it was something that was really interesting to me and at the same time, the issue of the choreography that was supporting the music and at the same time, accessibility too. So we had to think of several things at the same time. And really, we wanted to know there's in more theater sign language is something they wanna know. Well that's one of the things that I know was going to be one of the themes for the day that supporting artists with disabilities, creating opportunities for art making, by people with disabilities, is innovative. It drives innovation. It's not, quote, charity. It's creating art in a new way and in a different way that's more innovative and adds to the repertoire. It adds to our experience. Is that what, is that the reaction that you get from the public when you perform? It's an interesting experience because we've been in LA for 25 years and LA is used to us. They keep coming to see our shows. We've got a great audience. We always sell out at our shows. So then we come to New York and we meet people that they say, you're moving your hands too much. Why are you moving your hands so much? We have to explain it to them. It's sign language and it's part of the show. So we've really found that the education piece is ongoing. It never stops. It's endless. We've got to keep explaining it and educating people as to what we do and sign language and why we have deaf actors on the same stage. So yeah, the experience of going to New York and performing there made me realize how long we still have to go. Yeah, yeah. I think it takes a lot of awareness raising. And we saw with Spring Awakening so many people saw it and really appreciated the unique approach. And so hopefully that did make an impact. And speaking of which, Spring Awakening was the first show to a Broadway production to also feature a wheelchair user. And so what was your experience or at least your colleagues experience, the directors, in bringing Allie Stroker into the show and since this conversation today is about a broad range of disability, I'm sure you have some things to share about what was learned about how to incorporate someone using a wheelchair when the Broadway houses are so narrow and inaccessible. Yeah, I think it goes back to our small first production of Spring Awakening in LA. And I can remember when Allie came in and we walked in, she came in the room and I remember some people next to me got a little nervous. So, but we definitely know we have to do things like that. It's, she's a very talented woman. She's an amazing actor. She's a great singer. And we knew that we had to make that happen because of our experience and making accessibility and if making room for deaf people with accessibility we need to apply the same principle to others. So that was a discussion that we had for a long time from the opening show, asking her questions, making sure that that was the type of dialogue that was open and sharing. So, and we learned a lot too in that process. So then we came to New York and really it was a huge change. The theater was not accessible and we really had to pay from our own pockets to make sure that the theater was accessible for Allie and the door frames, the width of them were appropriate for her and also the new bath, they had to build a new bathroom for her. And we had to build a ramp, just so many things, everything, it would cost money and we just, we found donations, we found investors who were willing to support that. We were very fortunate to have that. And for me, it was fascinating just how, you know, how we found that out in the first place. The first person with a wheelchair ramp on Broadway, we didn't, we couldn't even believe that at first. We thought there had to, we did some searching and sure enough we found out, we asked the Alliance for the inclusion information and we said, is this actually true that she's the first person on Broadway and we were floored, we couldn't believe that. So yeah, it was also fascinating for me as a deaf person, how people were just so thrilled and celebrated Allie, you know, and her arrival on Broadway at the same time having deaf actors, they thought that was no big deal. They were more excited by Allie, like I've always seen that before. So to see the change, it's not a bad thing at all and it's certainly, there was no jealousy or animosity, but for me it was interesting because as a deaf actor, you know, it was the first time that we had that kind of awareness in the community, you know, compared to the wheelchair community. So it was interesting, at the same time we were all in the same boat together. You know, we were a group of artists, disability artists and hopefully we were growing together and we'll continue to grow together, that's important to me. That's great. I think it was just, it was a really important moment to have so many talented people on Broadway. You know, this past year they've talked about how of all the shows on Broadway and those nominated for Tony Awards, there was so much more diversity represented than say the Oscars which people had complained about. So do you see this as creating forward momentum with having more people with disabilities in theater in general or Broadway in specific? I know we have Glassman Ashery coming up with a second wheelchair user on Broadway, but do you see other movements forward coming out of this? Yeah, I could see some ripple effects from that, definitely. Yeah, but at the same time being aware of the deaf people in the media and in television and film and theater, you know, since I was a little boy and I know enough to understand that while that happens in waves, I think a pendulum is always gonna swing. And hopefully we can keep up with that when it swings, you know, as long as we can. Personally, it just, I have a long perspective of on things, instead of trying to worry about what's gonna happen next year or what other shows are coming up, I wanna make sure that we're making art that is sustainable and interesting and new. And it's from our own perspective and our own voice. That's more important to me than having more of it and rushing out to, you know, striking while the iron's hot. And, you know, they like to see, you know, the disabled actors and the artists, you know, keeping up their work. I'd like to see all of them just doing more in the future. So that's the long-term perspective, I think. Well, hopefully we'll be able to see that continue. I like to see it, you know, there's the pendulum metaphor. I also like to see it as that pendulum is on a little rack and the rack is constantly moving forward, even though the pendulum might be swinging back. The thing that it's on is still moving forward. I hope. Yeah, Mohammed moving the mountain. Yeah, yeah. So what important part of this is actually having plays about the experience of having a disability or being tough. Do you see more plays being written by deaf playwrights or about the deaf experience? And what can we do to foster more plays? That's tough to answer and it's one that I'm trying to solve. I've been trying to solve for a while. The theater itself is not accessible and it is not an accessible art form for disabled people. So Deaf West is fortunate that it's in my backyard and I've learned how to appreciate theater from Deaf West. They've given me that, you know, but really that's not something you have all over the US. That experience doesn't exist for others. So you've got to start young and increase our art education, making sure that it's out there and that deaf kids get access to theater so that they later feel the motivation to make that choice to go into theater. And I'm not saying that they have no deaf, we have deaf writers, of course, but we just really need to develop an infrastructure for the deaf writers to be able to develop their work. With other hearing artists, deaf artists, it doesn't matter who they collaborate with, but that the deaf writer, that they're all working alone in silos and my goal is to bring them together. And also that at that level that, you know, knowing that English is not our first language. So we're writing in our second language, so to speak, so there's that mindset. So we've got to find a way to empower the deaf writers to write in their first language as well and find ways to translate that into a theater form. There are, I've met a few people from theaters here today and I know with the Hall around audience we'll have theater people out there. What would you recommend for theater companies around the country that might want to include more deaf actors, more plays about the deaf experience? How, what recommendations do you have for including those actors, whether they're in a deaf role or not, in a role that's written for a deaf character or not? My vice is always the same thing. I have one piece of advice I always give. Get deaf people involved in the process. Deaf people, you know, we are your best advocates and allies. We have the answers to give, we know what it takes, we understand what the process will entail and what it looks like, so we are your best resource. And also the other thing, be willing to learn and be open to that. You know, your heart has to be in the right place. And I don't mean that, you know, I often meet some people who are very motivated by, you know, deaf artists and disability artists because of the opportunity for public relations or for financial reasons. And I recognize that that doesn't work. It's in the long run, it won't be successful. Your heart has to be in the right place for that. And I think we have, everybody in the room definitely has their hearts in the right place, so it's just figuring out how to make it work. So you're talking about students and kids that are interested in this. What suggestions would you have for deaf artists or artists with disabilities who want to have a career in the arts? What would you recommend as they're in school and as they're looking at college and training and moving out into the world? That's a tough question to answer. I wish it was an easier road for them. I really do wish that we had paved it for them and that there were ramps with interpreters lining the side of the road, but really it's hard. You have to have perseverance and just keep going and envision and you have to have the motivation. And it makes me sad to see people who give up. I know a lot of deaf individuals who they veer off into something else, they have to get a job, they have to go on with their life. And that makes me sad because today's world was not designed for us. And we might get there, like you were saying, that pendulum in the rock keeps moving. We might get there, but for now we've got to actually just keep going in our dreams and just keep the dream alive. Great. So let's talk a little bit about deaf culture. And what, there's a term that has been going around called deaf gain. And I think we can learn a lot from it for the rest of the disability community, but could you explain what deaf gain is and what we can gather from that and apply it to other parts of the disability world? Well, the word deaf gain is actually kind of a play on words related to hearing loss. So it's a reversal of hearing loss and it's a reflection to something that's a benefit that deaf people have over other individuals. So for example, because I don't have a microphone in my hands, I can express myself openly and you can see all of my face and I'm sorry I had no offense to you, you've got to. But because I'm deaf, you know, I'm able to communicate at six months old with my parents. You know, I could tell them I wanted milk. This is the sign for milk. I had that advantage over hearing babies. Because I'm deaf, I have the ability, more ability to see in my peripheral vision and see a powerful field of peripheral vision, like what he's doing over here more than hearing people might notice would tend to see this young lady over here. So we're more sensitive. We rely on our eyes and eye contact. We're very visual people. Our meetings tend to go very well because we're always, you know, there's one person speaking at a time. There's turn taking. We require more collective effort and collaboration in one room to make sure everybody's in line with what's going on that that process is effective and we have that advantage over a hearing people, a hearing individuals who run the same kind of meeting. So it could also apply to other disabilities as well. For example, sign language itself as a language, you know, is a blessing. We feel fortunate to have it. It's part of our rich community with a beautiful language that we enjoy and we play with and that grows with us and that also applies to theater. You know, we feel like we're in the, it's just the tip of the iceberg. So, you know, there's more to come. We're gonna see it grow and hopefully that community will become more mainstream. Does that get to the heart of what you wanted to ask me? Yeah, I think so. What I was thinking about also is David's performance this morning revealed the benefits to his disability for certain roles that he could have that involves someone missing a hand and the often gruesome ways that he can get roles and the benefit of that. And I was just referring to the one with the sword. I still have that image in my head. So, you know, so there are ways that the disability can be of benefit. So, and I think people just need to take that forward. And it brings me to my other question that I wanted to bring out. A DJ did a TEDx talk. Oh, before you go on to that, I actually have one thing I wanted to add. Because we're trying to communicate with, you know, our hearing parents as children, I've noticed that many deaf actors, they're great actors because of that. They have a head start on that miming, gesturing, acting things out, trying to get their needs met. I want somebody to eat or to drink. So that process of growing up with that, that body language really becomes, is a head start for them. Overhearing performers. So that's just, that's a generalization. It's not all people, but, you know, in general, I think that's an advantage for us. And also the other thing is that deaf people tend to always be, we wear our heart on our sleeve. It's, you've really got to communicate using your eyes and eye contact. So it's harder for us to lie. We have to maintain eye contact while we do it. So it's a talent that we learn is how to communicate. And that's a benefit for us on the stage. Well, I had the idea that I wasn't going to mention Niall DeMarco, one of the currently most famous deaf individuals, because he's won two reality shows. And one of them was for his work being a model. And they were saying that it's his eyes. He's always communicated, he has a piercing stare because he's, because it is a visual language. And that's probably helped him. And then also knowing how to, his facial expressions and working with his body. And I can see that as also a benefit for actors. So, but I won't mention Niall again, so. Oh no, no, it's true. The deaf community loves Niall. Not because he's nice to look at, not because he's won all these shows, but because he really comes from a place of where he wants to help the deaf children and speak about that, you know, on film and talks about that and his motivation and his need for educating deaf children. And giving back to the community that, the deaf community is just in love with him for that, so. Well, he has done a lot. It's an important part of the whole picture in the community. Yeah, he's done a lot to raise awareness of ASL education. Average person in our country doesn't understand that if children don't learn ASL from the earliest ages, that they cannot learn English as easily. And therefore, he's really advocating for that. And I think that's really important for a lot of us to know. The importance of early childhood ASL education. So, yes. And I think we all need it because, because then we can enjoy these types of productions and have more meaningful conversations. But I also wanted to mention, along those same lines, your TEDx Broadway talk, you mentioned that our quote, our limitations are our superpowers. I know we kind of got into that a bit with the deaf gain conversation, but do you have anything else, you know, what exactly you mean by that and how that can apply to your work? I think in that talk, I was talking about the process of rehearsal and of bringing in hearing actors and how they come into that process and start learning sign language and having full eye contact and becoming aware of the room and communication and the best ways to do that. And that really helps them become better actors. And, you know, by way of doing that, we really advance the field. Yeah, I can't tell you how many famous actors out there are out there that have worked with Deaf West and that they are also talking about that. They've mentioned how enriching that experience was to making them better actors and better people in general. And I think that's a beautiful thing for me. Not just that we benefit as the deaf community, but also that we're affecting the community at large and advancing the whole art form as a whole. Great, great. So, we're running up to the point where we would have some Q and A, but I just wanna see if there's, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about? Yeah, no, the more questions, the better. Okay, I mean, this has been important for me and I think it's important to have the dialogue. Instead of me up here lecturing on stage, I think, yes, we're concerned with the larger picture here and that the big picture of performing with a disability and we really, that's what we really want to discuss. We wanna be able to achieve as a whole. And I think for me, that's the big question. We wanna keep it going and keep that dialogue open. Okay, speaking of which, before we move on, I wanted to point out that we handed out on the tables hand out from a online dialogue that the NEA had in conjunction with the Labor Department and the National Arts and Disability Center, an online dialogue on careers in the arts for people with disabilities. We had this back in June, it was a two week long dialogue in which around 400 people participated, posting over 100 unique ideas, numerous comments to talk about what the issues are, what are the barriers, what are the things that people can work on to remove the barriers and create more opportunities for people in the arts or people with disabilities wanting to work in the arts, whether it's as artists or as administrators or in any of the other roles. So you can take a look at this, we had some large print copies, I can also email them to anyone who needs an electronic copy. After this, right now we're developing a report and we're going to be coming up with some next steps for what we can do to continue the dialogue, so please let me know if you have any questions about that. So I guess we can open it up for questions. Hello, my name is Jackie. I'm curious if you could speak a little bit about what the lobby experience is like in these shows. For our shows that we have ASL interpretation, we find that our audience is very segregated in the lobby, who have those who can speak ASL and those who can't. And we've tried to integrate our audience for those shows and get people to make a new friend at the theater by bringing in volunteers who can speak ASL so that they can meet a new friend and have somebody there who can speak to them. But I'm curious if there are other things that we could take as maybe a best practice or do you find that your audience stays kind of segregated or how does that work? I think it's very challenging to create an audience organic environment where the hearing and deaf people can mingle together. That's always, they're separated by language, but we do, at Deaf West we do try to do some games at different exercises, charades, win or lose or draw, for example, but that kind of experience where it forces people to kind of step out of their comfort level. And before our shows we have ASL classes and we also invite the deaf audience members to join in with me as the instructor. So we bring them up, I'm like, you know the sign for that, come on up here and help me. You know, we don't have any spoken interpreter or anything like that in our ASL classes, it's all pointing out words, it's all written. So body language, communication, it's a fun experience. So that tends to break the ice a little coming in. But if we just tried to stick two people together, you know, with an interpreting student, probably be pretty hard to make that happen. First of all, you know, we as deaf people, we've come to the theater to enjoy ourselves. And often that experience of, you know, I've gotta now kind of deal with a hearing person, I've got enough going on in the world than adding that on top every day. So we've come to the experience to enjoy ourselves. So there's that balance that we recognize the politics of the give and take and how that's all involved. I also just want to put in a plug for hiring deaf people and your staff. I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but they're, you know, at the NEA, we've had deaf interns and there's lots of ways to communicate it with technology today. So, and then they can provide more insight into what audience members need. And so, yeah, there's a lot of accommodations and things to be used. I also want to mention that we have a, I don't want to single her out too much, but we have a person here from Dog and Pony. And she, I forget the name of it. You have these ASL chats. They're pickup? ASL pickup, where you get together and you learn and people can learn sign. We have the benefit of having Gallaudet University in Washington DC and that's where Dog and Pony is. And, you know, the neighborhoods all around Gallaudet, the waiters at the restaurants and the bars know at least some sign. So, the more, the more, because they want to be able to communicate with the students and the faculty. And so, the more that people become aware and learn some sign, and I know I need to learn some sign, and I also advocate that you start with your kids when they're really little because it's really hard when you're older, so. All right. Okay, before we give the mic to anyone else, I'm asking a question that I want to ask, and since I'm holding the mic, I'm going to do it. Totally rude, but I can do that today. I did not have a chance to see Spring Awakening on Broadway, but every time I watch the segments that I have seen online, I am blown away by the depth of it because I see interviews with the cast, and I want to take a moment to point out that you have two extraordinarily competent actors playing the same role on the stage at the same time. There's a level of ego management involved in that that kind of blows my mind, but the thing that I saw in the cast interviews and on stage was that everybody got along and it was tight. You didn't just have people working together. You created a community and a family in many ways, and I think that that is the theater experience that actors want. And so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about this process of creating a family where the deaf people are the center and the power, and you are bringing the hearing actors into your world, and doing it as, by the way, in a way that is so beautiful, it makes me cry, so I'm kind of a fan girl, so you can just kind of let that go. But I want you to talk a little bit about that, what that's like. Well, we just had the question asking about the organic environments and how that happens, and really it's the environment of everybody wanting to make good art. That's the number one motivation for being there. They're all actors, so we've brought people in that are trying to improve their craft, that want to be the best in their role, that are motivated to try to, and they're quick learners. They're working with another coworker, a co-team, that is there, they've got to talk about all those details, and they have high standards for themselves, and they want to make sure that they're doing a good job on the stage, and during that process, throughout that process, it just becomes natural. They naturally become family. And one other thing, there's also a learning curve, and I think that number one thing that as actors that they learn, they have to let go of their ego. And then the process of letting go of that, all of that, just it's so much easier. It just, and it's the harder part is that steep beginning of the curve, but once they get over the hump, it's everything just becomes natural. Hi, I'm Sarah. I also want to say, follow up to that, is whoever casts the show, I'm guessing they do that very well. So I don't know if that, you or not, but I think that probably has a lot to do with it. Well, we actually have our casting director, and we have the artistic director, and we have the team. But I think we're fortunate because people want to work with our theater group. Sure, yeah. Yeah, and that helps. So I have a kind of a practical question. You mentioned on Broadway that you had to make some accommodations for your actress who used a wheelchair. And I, maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you said that the production raised money and had donors to make that possible. So did the production have to pay for those adjustments rather than the Neaterlanders who own the Brooks Atkinson where the show was on? Nope. Yeah. Yeah, don't ask me why. Betty? That theater, that Broadway is very old-fashioned in that way. Wow. Well, that blows my mind. Okay, and then my other question is, when does the tour start and where is it going and how do I make sure it comes to Pittsburgh? Hope so too, I hope it does. Yeah, we're in the process of developing the tour. So we're trying to figure out which cities, but I saw Pittsburgh is on the list, so hopefully. And Washington, D.C. And? And D.C. City Center, yes. Can I just say Sally Conway runs the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division, ADA enforcement provision, and I think maybe we have to sick her on the Neaterlanders. Sorry. Yeah. Hi, my name's Claire. You touched a little bit on this before, but I'm really curious to know what your season selection process is like at Deaf West and just things that excite you in theater right now and things you wish you'd see more of? Well, both. Both, I noticed that we tend to pick shows that have meaning for the Deaf community. So for example, Spring Awakening is about a show about communication. So really, I personally didn't do that, but it hit me during the opening scene where the mother has to explain to her deaf daughter about the birds and the bees. That it's a very common experience in the Deaf community that the Deaf girls don't find out about that stuff, about the birds and the bees, until much later than most people do. So we had to find a show that has some tie to our community, but at the same time also is fun to do stuff. I mean, comedies, something that people will enjoy. We have an audience that we want and we want to keep them coming back. We don't always want to have these heavy dramatic stories. So we've got to keep it balanced. And we also have a huge children's audience so that we tailor our performances to the children as well. We really feel that having a variety to pick from keeps that audience in mind. Questions, anyone? Can I just, I want to put in a plug for a few other elements of Deaf culture and art. There is, when we talk about artist residencies, the Anderson Center in Minnesota has a residency for Deaf artists and it's primarily visual artists and writers at least at this point. They might, you know, I'm not sure if they're going to open it up to other types of artists. And two years ago they had a handful of Deaf, was it five or so? And this year they had five and it happened to be all women. And the benefit of that, you know, the goal at least in terms of, you know, from my own perspective it's great to have integrated residency experiences where you have people with them without disabilities working together. But for Deaf artists having an opportunity for everybody speaking the same language and they have the same culture. And, you know, I think those are wonderful experiences and so they just had their second round and hopefully they'll continue that. And then the other is Deaf architecture and design. I think I've mentioned Gallaudet a few times in this hour but I've worked with their architects. Deaf space? Deaf space, yes, thank you. I've worked with their, or I've met with their, the architect at Gallaudet, Hansel Bauman. H-A-N-S-E-L Bauman. And this is really amazing things that they're doing looking at color and light and arrangement of furniture and sight lines and things that most of us don't think about. You know, a lot of things that we can learn when designing spaces, setting up rooms for meetings, you know, the fact that we didn't want to be backlit here. Those are things that they bring into architecture and of course into theater. So I thought that was really fascinating and did you encounter any of that when you were, well I suppose at Gallaudet you were more focused on being a college student. But are those things that you think about when you're designing on stage and in other elements of your life? Right, yeah, we wanted to make sure that we were bringing visual equivalents to what the auditory, so for example, you know, in our theater we have subwoofers. You know, we allow deaf people to feel the beats. And we also make enough time that the lights are set up properly and that the light changing is in accordance with the music and that the mood, you know, we try to reflect what the lights are so that the mood of the lighting matches the music and that kind of thing. So we definitely may take a lot of time to do a lot of that in mind. Do what we can as much as we can as possible. And there's always a limit to that budget. That's the ceiling that you hit all the time. So there's always more we could do. But also another thing that I wanted to talk about and touch on in our conversation that I think is important, we really need to be making our own art on our own terms. Instead of waiting for the system to give us an opportunity for it. And I think that is something that's a really big takeaway from my experience as an artist and as an artistic director. I mean, I still write. I still, I remember when I used to wait for the system to give me the opportunity, but at the same time, now I'm a little bit older, I'm a little bit wiser. And I feel that we can't wait for people to change, to adapt to us. We've, I really feel like we've gotta be more proactive in finding our opportunities ourselves and making our own art for them to become active. I think that's a great note to leave on if there's, though we don't have another question. I was just curious from an acting perspective, I know what some of the challenges that I deal with in terms of accommodation in auditions and places that are not so inclusive or inclusively minded. I'm just curious what the deaf actor experience is in that situation. I was just thinking about like when I auditioned for grad school, you know, and like if there's a young actor who wants to go to the URDAs and audition for graduate school, you know, what are, I'm just curious about what that experience is. It's pretty much the same. A lot of frustrations with the deaf actor. For example, you show up at the audition, there's no interpreter. So they've gotta bring their own interpreter, pay for their own interpreter, or often they'll have an interpreter that's an intern who probably isn't qualified. And often the interpreter will be monotone for all the, so that all the actors sound the same if they're not interpreting. So they're giving them the same feet. So it's based on your facial expression. It's based on your acting ability. And that doesn't always come through in the interpretation. So that's frustrating for the actor. So yeah, I don't know what the best way is, but it's unique and it's the ongoing education piece of it that I think the artistic directors can be more vocal and be more involved in the process. But right now it just seems that they wanna be more of a neutral party and just be the facilitator, but really they can be doing more in the system to help change the system. And it needs to change. And people need to be more aware. So yeah, it's hitting the wall. So my question for you is, DJ, what for hearing people who are auditioning deaf actors, what is the ideal situation for that audition and how should they assess the actor? Yeah, they should have a hearing perspective of a deaf person by their side. So someone that they can trust that they've worked out with that there's a dialogue and ongoing conversation. And in Deaf West theater we have that. I'm that person that does that. So I'm the person who tells the director and tells the actor, hey, you've got a very strong specific intent here. You can see the different perspectives from the deaf perspective and the hearing perspective and give that full picture that's required in a team that's requires teamwork. And often, sadly, the hearing people think that they know everything. So that's just, that tends to be common. So I wanna ask you enough. I have the mic so I'm gonna just ask this question. And it was the question that was asked to Rebecca earlier. When you are looking at theater, visual art, anything that is portraying people who are deaf, what do you want to see? I think for me, it's important that they're good. Number one, I don't wanna see bad art. But more importantly, I'm interested in their perspective. You know, what we bring to the material. Visual arts, theater, whatever it might be, making sure that we're bringing something new and that it's not just a repeat of what everybody else is doing out there. I think it's important that in our process, as deaf artists, it doesn't have to be explicit. Some deaf writers, when they write stuff for me, it's fascinating and it's fascinating because I'm paying attention to specific things that hearing people don't notice. But it's not there explicitly to the hearing people. It's not obvious to them. It's the voice that I'm looking for. And just one other topic. Since we just came off of a week of talking about accessibility and the practicality and the costs, you know, one of the fears of including, you know, people who are deaf and have other disabilities is the cost. But one of the issues raised in our round table that we had in January was when Big River was in New York, the producer said that, the theater director said that the cost really wasn't any different than, say, bringing in someone from England to come and perform and putting them up in a hotel or an apartment. That the costs really aren't that much, that they aren't any greater than any other theater cost. And I think Reagan was talking about how some of the costs associated with accommodating her really weren't any more than other things, you know, bringing in a, you know, like I think you said, bringing in a pink elephant or something, if they can bring that and they can bring in a wheelchair user, and the costs are similar to that. If Aida can have elephants and horses and things and there's a lot of costs associated with that, you know, there's all these other things are very similar to that, if that made sense. Yeah, and I think like we were talking about earlier, the cost of accessibility for the wheelchairs, I think it's like for Ali for her wheelchair was $7,000, but that's small compared to the whole budget of $4.5 million for the show itself. So when you look at the, again, talking about people who are willing to make the changes, to change their mindset and their hearts instead of looking at the budget only and what are we gonna do about this budget? You know, you have to look at the bigger picture and step back from that. I agree. Were there any other questions? Is that all? Great, thank you. Thank you all. Thank you, DJ. Thank you, thank you for having me. And thank you to the introvert. We're gonna take 15 minutes and then we'll be back. Thank you.