 I'd like to call the 19th regular meeting of the 2016-2017 Common Constance Order. Would the clerk please read the quote for the day? Thank you, Mayor. Cheers to a new year and another chance to get it right. Thank you very much for that advice. I thought it was good. Please call the roll. There's 14 present. Alderperson Schneider and drawn are both excused. Next we'll go on to the Pledge of Allegiance. Please stand and join me. In the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with a liberty and justice for all. You've got an excuse. Do you just got excused? Next we'll move on to the approval of the minutes from our last council meeting. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. I move to approve. Second. Any motion in support? Is there any discussion? See none. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. Are there any resignations tonight, City Attorney? None. And under Mayor's appointments? No Mayor's appointments, but there is confirmation of Mayor's appointment. Please proceed. Submitting the following appointment for your confirmation. I'll go to the umbrella to be considered for appointment to the Mayor's International Committee term to expire on April 27, 2017. Thank you. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you Mayor. I move to confirm. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all those, we have to call the roll. City Clerk please call the roll. Fifteen ayes. Motion passes. Item 7.1 is a presentation from the Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation with their plan update. Jane Chekolinsky, the Executive Director is with us. Welcome, Dane. Thank you, Mayor. And I appreciate everyone's time this evening. What I'd like to do is provide a very brief update on some key items that we're gonna be moving on in 2017. So right away I'll get started. We'll just a very quick update recap. The Sheboygan County. Dane, could you please take the mic with you if you're not gonna stand there? Appreciate it, thank you. Just a very quick update. The Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation is a refresher as a nonprofit entity designed to grow the local economy. We're supported by over 100 different entities and we employ four full-time staff and we have a board member, about 40 board members, representing both public and private entities. And there's a general feeling that rising tides lift all boats. If we can grow the community, everyone tends to benefit. We do this by offering four main services. You can see them listed below, workforce development, real estate, site selection, and entrepreneurship. Apologies for your advance. I can change it if you want. Okay, thank you. The next thing is I thought I'd start out with some quick information. About mid last year we started asking companies, we tried to get a better handle on our labor shed. Workforce continues to be a constant challenge for every business across the board. So we essentially ask them where do your employees live? And this is some of the data. We're starting to get back. It's still in draft form. But right away, Sheboygan itself. So we asked them by zip codes. So the 5308-1 and 5308-3 zip codes for the companies in the county that we surveyed, about 48% of their blue collar workforce were defining that very roughly as jobs are required two year degree or less and then white collars of four year degree or more. I know that's very, very loose. And 48% of the workers that we've pulled in Sheboygan County are the companies say that their workers are coming from 5308-1 or 5308-3, so that's pretty darn impressive. And about 25% of their white collar workforce is coming from those two same zip codes. And just to break it apart, Sheboygan itself, about 45% of the businesses in Sheboygan County that reported their workforce numbers both live and work in Sheboygan itself. So that means that 55% of the jobs that are created here in Sheboygan are going to people that live outside the area and 45% live here and work here. And then you can, if you wanna click it one more time, you can kinda see some other communities. Sheboygan Falls, Plymouth, and Utesburg, I just ran their numbers up there by comparison so you can start to see the trends that it goes. In general, I was really shocked on how far this area is really pulling for workforce from Milwaukee to Green Bay and even parts of the Fox Valley much more than I originally anticipated. So workforce attraction, this is the concept. We are not getting calls from companies saying, very few calls from companies saying that I need help expanding, I'm looking for financing. Those calls do happen and it's more in our entrepreneurial line. Most companies are telling us, geez, I'd love to expand but I have the equipment, I have the orders, I just don't have anyone to run the equipment. So our flagship program was really founded from this survey and kind of what we're up to. This one was not done by us. This was done by the Sheboygan County Chamber and they brought together about six focus groups and these are the same themes that kept reoccurring again and again in those focus groups and ironically a lot of these things were items that we were already working on. So if you wanna hit at the very first housing, we have done an outstanding job of bringing in temporary, by temporary meaning that when people locate they don't wanna buy, they typically wanna rent. There's about 800 apartment units going in countywide which is absolutely fantastic. We have not had a unit built in this county since about 2009 before we started this initiative so it was, we were really lacking. The next one, retail. We're doing a rather significant retail push right now in the county. It's going very well and if you wanna click it one more time, these are the other two that are in our work plan to work on for this year. So with the help of the city of Chad, thank you very much. I know we're gonna be doing a business plan kind of contest is one of the things in our plan. We are also looking at, taking another look at transportation. We gave it a hard look this year. We saw some companies that might be interested. There was some warm there but we kind of wanna come back, rephrase and go after that again. Once again, between our companies and our social services they keep saying the lack of public transportation is keeping people from work. We gotta figure, we're trying to figure out some other solutions. One of the most interesting things about the transportation is when you look at it, we're very proud of our manufacturing heritage, right? You keep hearing Shiboyne County is the third highest concentration of manufacturing in the nation. As many of you know, when manufacturers hire, they typically hire on second and third shift. You have to earn the right or the privilege and the seniority to get to first. And just an ironic piece of note that second and third shift change is a time our public system doesn't operate. I'm just gonna plant that seed. A lot of what we're doing in terms of attracting new people to the areas that have been under the someplace better banner. As a matter of fact, at the height when we're fully advertising the site, the site was giving over a hundred job searches a day. 45% of those were coming from outside the county. So we wanna do everything we can to boost up advertising in that area. So we're gonna unleash a new program this year. And we call it a partnership program but what we've been doing is putting advertisements out there partnering with companies that are looking for work. What we found out, one of the key lessons we learned this year by trying this is that Schwoigen County, we typically say we have 3,000 available jobs. That message does not resonate very well in social media and on the internet. If we say this company has a job right now, that gets way better traction. So we have to be more picky and we have to start working with individual companies to promote individual jobs if we wish to stretch our dollars to the max. So we've unveiled the partnership program. So what we've done is we actually piloted this. And our goal is to match a company with about 30% of their dollars. And so that way there's a true partnership in there but we piloted it four times. And these are the companies that we piloted it. Biowiga Cheese here in Sheboygan, NEMAC here in Sheboygan, Certainty and Plymouth, Beaumont and Plymouth. And what we found out from this is three of them were looking for entry-level jobs. We filled their short-term need for entry-level production jobs, which is truly fantastic. These companies were truly struggling. We put about 60 people on payroll and got over 600 applicants. It appears from a combination of Facebook, Craigslist and some other media we used some LinkedIn. We were able to drive people into those positions. And so this is what we're gonna be doing next year. We already have some interest from two companies here in Sheboygan in Bentos, North America. Biowiga certainly wants to do it if they hit their second phase of the growth and Sargento and Plymouth is also very interested. Now this one is kind of interesting. You know, I said that Sheboygan County were the third highest concentration in manufacturing, but we do have an Achilles' heel. And I think Sheboygan is in the best spot to take advantage of this. So here's actually a list that came out in USA today earlier this year. These are the top 10 industrial communities in the United States and according to unemployment rank. It's not dealing with unemployment, but it's a nice thing. I know Sheboygan had the lowest. So very next slide. If a company comes to us today and asks for 15 acres of shovel site ready industrial land that is already delineated, already has engineering done, water and sewer to site, we don't have it. We don't have it in the entire county. Every site over 15 acres this year has either been under contract or sold. I can tell you right now I know Sheboygan recently sold. It's currently in the process of selling its largest one. I don't know if that transaction went through. Then you also have Plymouth currently has an option on its largest site. So we're really in a position now that I believe this is our Achilles heel if we want to bring in more production or encourage our existing ones to expand. So with that, that concludes my presentation. Thank you for the time. I appreciate everyone's support of our organization. And I'm very much looking forward to 2017 and shaping up. I think it'll be a great year. Dane, thank you very much for your presentation. Appreciate all the great work you're doing. Do you want to buzz in? No, this is only the council. Next, we'll move on to the public forum. Okay. First on the list this evening is Robert Latree. Bob, would you come on up? And Bob, can I have your home address please? 717 Dillingham Avenue. And you will have five minutes, sir. Thank you. I'm speaking tonight in opposition of the study going on that wants to be held by that Fitch Association Consulting Group at $60,000. I look at the streets in Sheboygan. I look at unmanned positions in departments. I think that $60,000 could be used in a more prudent way than spending it on a study that we've already had two studies done. In 2016, we've had a study done by the International Firefighters Union. They are very reputable, they're professionals. They know what they're doing. For some reason, Common Council doesn't believe their study. We've also had another study done by the fire department. For some reason there also, Common Council doesn't believe their study. You know, a few years ago, when the chief Herman retired, Common Council wanted the police and fire commissions to hire new chiefs with more credentials, more education, and that happened. We did that. We went out, interviewed people from all over the United States, and we finally came out unanimously to hire Chief Mike Romas. You've got to, you should have some paper in front of you with his qualifications. I don't want to go through the whole thing, but this man has a master's degree in business. He's got a bachelor's degree in firefighting, and just too numerous for me to go through. That's why I gave those sheets to somebody to take a look. Also, our assistant chief, Vern Koch, has got 28 years with the department. He's done every job from the bottom to the top. He's very well respected in the community. He knows firefighting. I guess my question is, why aren't we listening to the people we hire? We went out and hired the best, the cream of the crop, and yet we're not allowing him to manage the department. We've got micro managers over here that know not too much about firefighting or running a DMS service, but yet we want to go spend $60,000, which I think is ludicrous. I think what we need to do is work with the fire department, let them run the department, and Shiboyan will be the city that it is right now and even better. Shiboyan is a wonderful city to live, to raise your kids, to retire, and it's a very, very safe city. The police department, wonderful, wonderful department, run very efficiently. And I think the fire department, if the common council allows them to run the department, I think the city will be a winner. I thank you and I hope that goes down tonight that we take the studies from what we got right now and save money. Thank you very much. Thank you, Bob. Next on the list would be Lorraine Green. Lorraine, do you want to come up? Lorraine, can I have your home address, please? It's 2308 North 35th Street. Okay, we will have five minutes. All right, that's right down the block from the Field of Dreams. I am part of the Save the Field of Dreams group. Our mission has been and will continue to be to save the green space that has become a quiet respite central in our neighborhood. It is the part of the quality of life that our neighborhood enjoys. The question that our common council will be considering tonight in closed session revolves around the strategies for negotiating Aurora's expansion and the city's obligations and the benefits. I want you to please remember that Aurora's deal with the school district, if and when there is one to buy the Field of Dreams, is contingent heavily upon the city's building of the Buttson complex, which they want to make into soccer fields in order to meet the DNR requirements, the fields destroyed must be replaced with equal or better. I read the 2017 budget and found $590,000 promised to accomplish phase one of the sports complex. I am told that sprinkled throughout the budget are more monies that could actually bring that figure close to 1.5 million. Also, please remember that once Aurora builds a facility with 10 or more beds, they will not be paying any property taxes. I think that's called 501C3 status. Now, why should our city be so heavily invested in this project when this project that was never requested by any citizen group? Who is going to pay for the rest of that project? And in the same vein of thought, why would all the soccer fields then need to be on the south side of town? It is also my understanding that the rezoned vote that will revert back to its original status if no sale of purchase was agreed upon by December 31st of 2016. Well, that date has obviously come and gone. So if no deal has been reached between Aurora and the school district, then will the school district need to request a rezone again? I really need to know the answer to that. I am told that one of Aurora's goals is to build near their competition as close as they can get. Are we going to pay with the quality of life in my neighborhood because of Aurora's goals? We are not looking forward to increased traffic, noise from backing up vehicles and trucks, sirens, possible helicopter traffic. We are also not looking forward to spending money on replacing something that we already have. Thank you, Lorraine. And next on the list is Debbie Dimalon. Debbie, if you could come up. And Debbie, can I have your home address, please? Yeah, my name is Debbie Dimalon and my address is 1704 North 35th Street. And you'll have five minutes, Debbie. Okay, so I also would like to say to make a city that offers the best services we need to balance them. There's no rational reason to destroy the existing field of dreams, our children's north side and easily accessible playing fields, ideally situated. They correspond to the horseman's sports fields which serve the south side. This balance of sports fields was a great idea which has served the community's leisure, sports and health needs for years. This is a perfect setup. The east parcel is smaller surrounded by houses, marshy and has contaminated soil, all reasons to make it not at all ideal to have our children using them. The problem then becomes where would we displace the field of dreams and the answer is always in a less accessible, less than ideal area. The proposals up until now have just been last resorts, reducing the size of the playing fields because in the end, everyone is trying to accommodate Aurora, not the children or adult citizens of Sheboygan. Aurora is not serving Sheboygan by concentrating medical services all in the same neighborhood. St. Nicholas Hospital is already right next to the field of dreams on the north side so to serve Sheboygan, Aurora needs to build their medical complex on the south side. Allowing Aurora to build right next to their competitor could hurt St. Nicholas's business, which is not a good message for businesses that want to come into our city. There is no benefit for the citizens of Sheboygan to absorb the infrastructure costs for a duplication of medical services in the same neighborhood. Infrastructure costs for the Aurora medical complex that taxpayers have to spend include but are not limited to water, sewage, flood control, lighting and road alterations. There is no tax base with a hospital. Aurora has property on the south side of Sheboygan which is perfect for a medical complex. Aurora is not increasing jobs, it's not just a transfer, excuse me, it is just a transfer of jobs. How many jobs has Aurora already let go? What will happen to the medical hospital on 7th and 6th Street so that it doesn't become an eyesore? Those neighbors were concerned about that and about two years ago, Aurora's David Graemner had promised that they had no plans to build a hospital elsewhere for at least 10 years. Aurora's project included proposing a sports complex on the Bootson property, now city property, which is not what the donor envisioned for her property. We need to have citizen involvement and improvement, excuse me, and approval as to how to use that land constructively and to the benefit of all, not just to a specific group of people and not for non-public use. That land should not be given to a private club when it's public property. We've already paid enough taxes so any plans should not, so any plans should not tax us more. Anyway, just to say, Aurora is not serving Sheboygan by building their hospital complex on the Field of Dreams next to their competitor's medical complex. Aurora has no business taking the Field of Dreams, ideally situated which would then need a replacement. And of course I could say more by virtue of my time, all right? Ah, ooh. So just a couple other things. If they've built in the East and West parcels, both of those have flooding issues, so if they build over those, all the neighbors around will have flooding issues. And let's see what was my last one. Well, anyway, the Field of Dreams is a health-promoting community resource and Aurora, if they wanna promote health, should not be taking that away. I just don't understand why we're taking away a park that's already there, it's already useful, it's been donated to us and all the community helped to fund it. I just don't understand why it's up for sale because it has to be replaced if it's taken. So I don't understand why we're doing this and everything, it's not like we need a hospital in that area because we have one. Anyway, thank you. Thank you, Debbie. Next on the list is Patricia Waganalski. Patricia, if you would come up. Hi, Patricia Waganalski and I live at 2225 North, 35th Street. 31st or 5th? 35th. 35th. Okay, and you have five minutes. Thank you. I've been here speaking before about this. It's not uncommon to see me up here. Just to let you know, I now have a great-grandson, another one, and they both live right on Main Avenue and 36th Street. It's really nice to have a granddaughter, a daughter, a great-grandchild being able to use that park. There's nothing else around there for them to go to, other than an empty lot across the street, which was a dump area. But to be able to go to this park, mom went, grandma went, great-grandma lives, is just something that you can't replace in my eyes. And they have to take them and go blocks over this way, or half a mile over that way, or if I want them to play soccer, which I think my grandson's gonna do, to play soccer, to have to go way over on the south side of town, to me is just ridiculous. Chances are, if this would all go through, I know you told us there's going to be somewhat of a little park on the east side, along with some fields. If it's gonna be anything like they are currently now, those fields are full all the time, one of the seasons there. So I don't see how this is going to work. Another thing, I've been in disaster recovery for data centers for the last 10 years. And looking at this, to put two hospitals right across the street or caddy corner from each other, within a quarter mile or less of each other, is ludicrous for the city to even consider what happens if something major goes wrong. There's that power station right there on 34th and Taylor. We have squirrels that go in there at least once a year and knock power out for all of us. Now, the hospital may say, neither one of the hospitals that they have generators. You cannot always count on those, no matter how often you test them two, three, four times a year. If you wanna light one up, it's not necessarily gonna light up, just like your car. Your car may start every day of the month, the first of the next month, you go to start it, it doesn't start. So these are all things that you really, really need to consider if you're gonna allow that to happen and have two hospitals across the street from each other. Not only that, just the presentation we just had, I noticed how the jobs are, the acreage is out there for Uspur, there's acreage out there for Plymouth, there's acreage out there where you're trying to show us about how little acreage there is for companies to go. You notice they're all on the south side or towards that area, Sheboygan Falls, Kohler, all out in that area. So that's another thing to consider. If these companies have Aurora as their healthcare provider, they're gonna wanna be near closer to those areas that they serve. So these are all things to consider and also the property that they have on the south side of town. I don't understand why they don't use that. They've bought property throughout the city. They have some property. I know you're raising your eyebrow, but they do have some property that they've got. I mean, you can go check it out, but it's just, it's sad that they're not, that they gotta take this away and they're not considering the citizens of Sheboygan. And I hope that if it does come that you guys do vote against it along with your citizens and keep them in mind. Thank you. Thank you, Patricia. And lastly, we have Steve Strauss. Steve, if you could come up. No, that's okay. Do you need some of the extra minutes? No. I'm trying to wrap it out in your, my name is Steve Strauss, 1845 North 24th Street. You will have five minutes, sir. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I'm just going to point out a couple things that have come out in previous meetings. One was at the meeting at Cooper School when our mayor said there does not need to be a rezoning for Aurora to build what they want. And that is on tape, but they lied. They lied to everyone. Anyone who knows what is going on realizes that when you had to have this rezoning, it was for a larger complex. I sent the letter to all of you on this committee and the mayor pointing that out, pointing out that there would be no property taxes because the property taxes that were projected went from $235,000 to $320,000. When you build a hospital with 10 plus critical care beds, there are no taxes. So Aurora is scamming the city. Mr. Herman is the only one of all of you who responded to me. He called me and said, oh my gosh, I didn't realize this. Two older persons then brought up payment in lieu of taxes, which is a joke because that's part of negotiating with a nonprofit healthcare. This is after the fact you're saying payment in lieu of taxes. It's a joke. It's gone. You have no leverage. So the city gets nothing from this. The city loses a park. The city has to pay for development on the south side. My wife was invited to a meeting with Dr. Sheehan and Mr. Grabner. Just leveling the south side was $1.5 million. That is from Aurora. This is their estimate of the cost. Who is paying for this? Who is paying for this? We have to pay for this. I don't remember the name of the previous Common Council President. Thank you. He said it's the shareholders. Then he said the shareholders are the city and the groups. So as shareholders, we the city are going to pay for something we've paid for before. Why? If you go and look at Aurora's old unaudited statements, their marketing tactic is to build next to a competitor. The place that didn't work was Fond du Lac. They kept them out. There's no hospital in Fond du Lac. They have a clinic on the south side. They're upset about that. What they're doing is they are scamming everyone in Sheboygan that we are losing this. We are losing the field of dreams. We are going to pay more for what we already have and get nothing for it. No one questions them. I'm sorry, no one here questions them. That's your responsibility. You represent us, but you don't question them. You say, go on, go on, we'll do it. Why don't you question them? What does Sheboygan get from this? Can anyone here tell me what Sheboygan gets from this? I don't think so, because there's nothing. The healthcare is there. If they don't like where they are. By the way, it costs less to build an overpass over the railroad tracks to their south side property than it does to replace the athletic facilities. It costs less for them to build on the south side than it does to build next to their competitor, which is their marketing plan. This is for them. It's not for the community. People have to realize this. It's for them, not the community. My gosh, sometimes you have to open your eyes and say, that's it, that's it. They lied, and they lied this whole time. And I'm sorry, all of you accepted it. The school board accepted it. Everyone accepted their lies, except those who can think and realize what was happening. If you understand what's going on, you realize what was happening. But everybody goes, give it to them, give it to them. Don't give it to them. Excuse me, Steve. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's it for this evening. We already had five people. You can only have five people. And we did have five. Okay, next we'll go on to Mayor's announcements. In January of 2013, the Sheboygan City Council passed Resolution 121, approving the combined city, county dispatch and corresponding agreement with Sheboygan County, which outlined the funding and governance of the combined center. This agreement was no small accomplishment as Joint Dispatch Center had been discussed for over a decade. Along the way, there were small steps with the city and the county making a decision to move to Spilman, a joint computer-aided and record management system for dispatch. There were then years of city council shared services committee meetings where they discussed the many options, the best practices for moving to a joint platform. Trips were scheduled for that committee to visit other communities and learn from past experiences at other city and county consolidation efforts. That then led both municipalities to approving the intergovernmental agreements and work on developing the implementation plan to consolidate joint dispatch operations. This meant that all the policies and procedures were reviewed and merged. Employees were cross-trained and city dispatch employees eventually became county dispatch employees as of January 1st of 2016. During this time, Sheboygan County was also implementing a digital upgrade of the radio system used to broadcast dispatch communications. The goal of this merger was to improve the service to all residents by eliminating the transfer of cellular 911 calls from county dispatch center to the city police fire dispatch center and create a single point of communication for all emergency services in Sheboygan County. In addition, we eliminate the duplication of services and long-term efficiencies we're gained through staffing, training and equipment replacement. During this process, when I checked with Chief Domagolski to see how the project was advancing, he always had positive feedback from me on the interaction that he and his staff had in working with their counterparts from Sheboygan County. In 2016, the city transferred the 698,293 annual cost of our dispatch operations to Sheboygan County where the county added this to their budget for 2016 and into the future. Per the Intergovernmental Agreement, today the city of Sheboygan will make the $2.5 million investment in the project that was used to defray the construction cost to enlarge the space at the Sheriff's Department to absorb the city police fire dispatch. This is a win for the taxpayers of the city of Sheboygan who originally paid for two dispatch operations. One is the city taxpayers and the second is county taxpayers. The $2.5 million construction payment can take another three and a half years to amortize at the rate of $698,000 per year and in mid 2019, rather, the city investment in this joint project will have been recovered through the operational savings gained by combining dispatch operations with Sheboygan County. Savings will continue to be to the city's benefit each year into the future. At this time, I'd like to extend my thanks to Sheboygan County for the partnership in this project. Board Chairman, both Tom Wagner and Roger Tostruti, Administrator Adam Payne, Sheriff Todd Preby, Inspector Jim Rousseau, Dispatch Manager, Christy DeBlay, and Consultant Bill Brockbauer and the entire Sheboygan County Board for their cooperation and assistance to make the shared service a resounding success. And at this time, I'd like to ask Board Chairman, Tom Wagner and Adam Payne to come up and receive this check. I know I lose that. Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council, thanks for inviting us here. As most of you know and appreciate, collaboration is a key to success. The Combined Dispatch Center and Emergency Radio System Upgrade is a tremendous example of that. For nearly three decades, there were discussions to combine the Sheboygan Police Department Dispatch Center with the Sheboygan County Sheriff's Department Dispatch Center. With the support of the County Board and Common Council, both units of government successfully negotiated and agreed upon a path to get it done. The 2016 merger of the City and County Dispatch Centers eliminates duplication and provides a single point of contact, as the Mayor said, for all citizens and visitors to access emergency and non-emergency services. It provides a more efficient, effective, and consistent level of service, eliminates the need and delay associated with transferring calls, provides for better countywide radio coverage, and will help save lives. The county and city were also able to successfully retain and merge most city and county dispatchers, improve working conditions, and provide for a seamless transition. The most difficult challenge was garnering County Board support to absorb the $1 million annual increase in the Sheriff's Department's operating cost. In addition to combining the Dispatch Center, the radios and equipment were very dated. So the total investment for the remodeling, new dispatch consoles, and equipment radios and towers was $12 million, of which the city contributed $2.5 million, which we are very grateful for. I want to thank Mayor Vanderstien, you, the members of the Common Council, the Chief of Police, I believe is back there, his staff and all the city that helped this vision become a reality. This was a remarkable achievement and investment in our community that we all share. Though combined dispatch is a noteworthy accomplishment, what many people don't realize is there are so many other examples where the county and the city of Sheboygan have collaborated to help make many good things happen. So I asked Adam to put together a few thoughts on that. Thank you. Thank you for your public service. Combined Dispatch was a remarkable achievement and it was the Common Council, Mayor Vanderstien, other person, Mary Lynn Donahue, when you served on the shared services committee and others that really helped broach this compromise and Don Hammond, as you know, was the lead negotiator for the city. But I want to thank the Common Council as a whole for your good work and support, but particularly our staff. As I said, we thought we'd take this rare opportunity, not only to say thank you, but there are so many people in this community that there's always room for improvement, opportunities to make good things happen, but so many good things have been happening between the city of Sheboygan and Sheboygan County. The Common Council, our county board, our staff. We have remarkably talented staff, your police chief and his staff, your fire chief and his staff, your IT staff, our shared purchasing agent, your planning department, Chad Pellechak, Steve, Dave Bebel in the transportation department. We have so many good people. It's one of the reasons I enjoy working so much for Sheboygan County is all the good people helping make good things happen. Together, together, we cleaned up the Superfund site. A hundred million dollar investment the city and county leveraged together. Together, we created the Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation. $100,000 of support from the city, $100,000 of support from the county, and the private sector provides a little more than that. Together, we made that happen, and together, the Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation has now helped support over $142 million in investments and help garner financial assistance for our businesses. Together, we did that, the Ring of Fiber. You don't hear a lot about the Ring of Fiber, but this is a network comprised of 23 miles of underground fiber optic cable that we will share the city of Sheboygan, Sheboygan County and the school district. Together, we got that done, and this will be an investment for the next 40 to 50 years in our community. We all are part of the Sheboygan County in health clinic, the school district, and the city of Sheboygan joined us in 2012 as a cost-saving measure. The non-motorized transportation program, you may recall when we really had $25 million drop in our lap from the federal government. We didn't ask for it, but we were one of four communities in the nation to receive it. At the end of the day, it was about $28 million. Many people are aware of that. What they're not aware of is over 15 million of those dollars are going into the city of Sheboygan. Much of it has already been done. The Taylor Drive pathway was a six and a half million dollar initiative. The Shoreland 400 trail was a $300 million initiative. Eisner Avenue Reconstruction. For years that was an eyesore and a problem. And together, we got it done. Brownfield assessments, over $400,000 of county funds have worked with your planning department in the city to improve opportunities there. Real property listing, GIS, mapping, we've consolidated that service. Penn Avenue, recently the county put about $200,000 into purchasing three homes in the city so they could be demolished and we could develop that. Develop that and again, we're working with your city planning department in collaboration. I could go on. I could go on and on. Transportation, all the good things that are happening between your public works department and our highway department, like buying mixed asphalt at cost. Together, we have got a pretty doggone good track record. And I wanna thank the council and the mayor and your staff for your leadership and support and what I think is a pretty impressive array of collaboration the last four years and more. Nice work and thank you. Thank you gentlemen. Yes, I'd like to call up David Anderson. David Anderson retired from the Sheboygan Police Department on December 31st of 2016. After 34 years of service, including 19 years as a supervisor, he was a graduate of Sheboygan North High School in the University of Wisconsin, Platteville, where he majored in criminal justice. He began his service with the police department on September 7th of 1982 as a patrol officer. Dave was a member of the emergency response team. Bicycle patrol was a field training officer and he took pride in sharing his knowledge of the job and helped him develop the next generation of officers for our police department. Dave was also a longtime member of the department honor guard, serving as also the explorer post advisor. He demonstrated strong commitment to serving as a mentor to our community's youth and providing them opportunities to explore and develop their interests. He continued this service by volunteering with big brothers and big sisters as a lunch buddy for the last three years. David was promoted to sergeant of police on June 6th of 1997 and transitioned to a formal leadership role. In his last assignment, Dave was responsible for coordination and oversight and management of all special events in the city, citizen's academy coordinator, traffic sergeant and supervisor of the community service officers and crossing guards. Additionally, Dave is a veteran of the United States Air Force and Wisconsin Air National Guard. Dave shared with me that he believes that he's really blessed to have the opportunity to work and serve our community that he loves so much and looked out for him and his family throughout his career. During his service with the Sheboygan police department, he was a recipient of numerous condemnations, including a life-saving award for his actions during an incident in August of 2008. Dave will be remembered most for his integrity and uncompromising work ethic. Dave, it's a real pleasure to present you the certificate of appreciation. The city of council of Sheboygan is honored to present David Anderson, the certificate of appreciation and recognition of your 34 years of dedicated service. David, congratulations on your retirement. How do you squeeze 34 years into all that? Wow. It's been an honor to serve the city and to make connections. Since my time in the military and throughout my career in the police force, it was always my goal to make connections with people, with other departments. And that's how I get things done. In the military, it was easier to make connections with the civil engineers, call for a back hole to build a fighting position rather than have a group of guys dig foxholes. And same thing, we're here working with the department of public works and working with the county, working with the fire department, working with the crews on the city, with the power drivers, the squad got stuck. Dave, can we help us out? I just want to thank you. All my friends for your support. It's been an honor to work in the city. I went away, joined the Air Force to get the GI Bill so I could go on to college to get life experience with the Air Force, to get a degree and when I was finished there, I had job offers and wanted to come back to Sheboygan except it was a great family. It has a great school district as Mr. Payne had mentioned. We worked together well. My oldest son Bennett was a pastor out in Philadelphia. He and his wife came back to Sheboygan because it's a great community. My oldest daughter Robin is tickled pink every time she sees advertisements for Sheboygan down in Chicago. So the word of Chicago, or the word of Sheboygan in Chicago at this point, it's spread wide and far and it's a great place to come back. And as Bob mentioned in his words, I just want to echo that it's a great place here. Thank you so much, Mayor. Is Peg Sandy here this evening? Okay, next item we'll move on to the Consent Agenda. The Consent Agenda is including items two point through through 2.5. All the person down here. Thank you, Mayor. I would move to accept and file all reports of officers, accept and adopt all reports of committees and pass all resolutions and ordinances. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the items in the Consent Agenda? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? 15 ayes. Motion passes. Next item is going on to reports of officers. Items 3.1 and 3.2 of both will be referred to the Finance Committee. Under resolutions, resolution 4.1 is by Alderman Theo, authorizing and executing the Joint Powers Agreement for Sheboygan County and the City of Sheboygan 9-1-1 Emergency Systems. Alderperson Theo. Thank you, Mayor. I move to suspend the rules on this one. Second. Is there any objection to suspension? Seen. Get a reason why. A reason why is it's an annual agreement between the city and the county and we just need to renew it for this year. So we have to get it done. We want to try to get it done by January 4th. With that, I move to pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Motions before you, is there any discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? Could everybody check their mics? We're picking up a little static and we feel that's because the microphone's rubbing against something. 15 ayes. Motion passes. Item 4.2 will be referred to the Public Works Committee under reports of officers. 5.1 is an RCE by the Committee of the Whole to whom was referred RC number 265 of 1617 by Public Protection and Safety and Resolution 129 of 1617 by Alderperson Thiel authorizing entering into a contract for professional services related to performance of an operational and departmental structure study for the Sheboygan Fire Department and recommends that the resolution be passed. Alderperson Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. I want to make a motion to accept and adopt and pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderperson Bellinger. Thank you, Mayor. As most everybody knows, I was the one who put this study together. I did it six years ago as well when Chief Herman was the fire chief. And in doing so, what I did was I met with the fire chief and he supported it at the time. I met with the union head and he said as long as there wasn't any preconceived outcome, he was fine with it as well. And so we went forth and we brought, we kept the fire department involved. They contributed to the scope of work that would be done in the study and what would be included. And we brought this forth and we heard the presentation at the Committee of the Whole from the gentleman from Fitch. And what I'd like to address some of the concerns that were brought up by the gentleman that spoke earlier on this. And he said that there was a study done by the union and a study done by the police chief and that we don't believe that in either study. That's simply not the case. It's not a case of whether we believe what's come out from the union or what's come out from the fire chief. It's not that at all. What the goal of this is, is to get an independent third party to come in and do a comprehensive study. I think if you were to ask the union and the fire chief, what they presented was extremely narrow and well, it may or may not have merit to what's going on. What we wanna look at with this study is a comprehensive, complete overview of the entire department. We're spending $8 million a year on the fire department. The study is gonna cost $59,000, which is less than three quarters of 1% of their annual budget. So what I would like to do is, just backtrack for a second, we constantly are funding different studies. We're asking different subject matter experts to ride us with the expertise and additional information before we make critical decisions on things. We just recently did it a couple of meetings ago for the wastewater treatment plant and the biosolid waste that we're doing. We hired an engineering firm for $27,000 to come and evaluate that process. We don't always have the internal industry experts in the best practices and somebody that can look at an entire department and give us a broad overview and a direction for the next five to 10 years on which way we wanna go. So I would encourage people to look at it and vote in favor of it. Public protection and safety is extremely, extremely important. No one here is being critical of the job that the fire department is doing. They do an awesome job. What we just wanna do is gather some more information and see how we move forward in the future, again, in the next five to 10 years. And I hope this passes and gain support from the council members. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. All the person down here. Thank you, mayor. I'm gonna vote in favor of this. I hate to disagree with my friend, Bob LaTree, whose opinions I respect. Just to follow up on what Alder Bellinger said, it's not that we don't believe what the Firefighters Union study presented to us. I thought it was actually a very well done study. As I understand, I think Chase Longmiller indicated that the cost of that was $75,000. I kind of liken this in my mind to, you know, we gotta get some surgery done, so we're gonna just go to our general practitioner, who's a really good guy, really knows his stuff, and he says, this is what we ought to do. If it's something that's really important, I think we need a second opinion. And this really constitutes a second opinion. Later on, we're gonna be talking about extending some benefits to battalion chiefs and so forth, because we're having some trouble filling those positions. In my mind, I would like somebody independent to look at how we structure our fire chief, our three deputies, our three battalion chiefs, our five captains, our 10 lieutenants. Is there a different way of looking at this? Could we maybe be more efficient? If we don't do this study, I don't see that we have any choice but to invest a significant amount of money, $1.5 million in a fire station that's 100 years old, because we aren't gonna have any more information to base our decision on, or to spend $500,000 to repair a roof on another fire station. Again, because the only information that we have is the information that the firefighters study provided. It was a good study. I really, I dug into it and I thought the analysis of calls and so forth was really excellent. And maybe that's exactly what we do. Maybe we keep five fire stations. We invest that $2 million in our existing fire stations. And we keep our staffing just the way that it's supposed to be. But I think that we owe it to ourselves to have somebody independent look at it. Now somebody said, well, what if you don't like the result? Well, then you don't like the result. I mean, I think that's just the chance that we take, but it's getting that second opinion so that when we move forward, we have a full base of information. $59,000 does, it doesn't seem like a lot of money. It is a lot of money, but in comparison to the $2 million that we're going to be investing, because if we don't get this done, I don't think we have any alternatives. It's really not, it's not that much money. And I think that we owe it to ourselves to get this done, to look at it in the fullest kind of way and really start moving forward. So I'm gonna vote in favor of this. I think it's a good step and let's see what happens. Let's get the second opinion so we can make a good decision. Thank you for those comments. Alderperson, Lee Mendozki. Thank you. I'm gonna be voting against this because I think the city can spend this money in a better way. We already had a study done by the fire department union members and we had the chief write up a report. There's a lot of things in both that are similar. There are a few things that are different and I'm sure that as a council we could get together and decide on settling the parts that are not similar because all of us here have the ability to do a lot of research ourselves, especially with all the information that's on the internet now. Also, the presentation that was given to us, I noticed that among the cities that they've discussed that they've made recommendations for were Miami, Minneapolis, St. Paul and Dallas. All three of those places are much larger than Sheboygan and the sheet that I saw also said about a regional fire department. If this is gonna be a regional fire department that we're gonna look at, why is the city of Sheboygan the only one that's paying for this? Why not have the town of Wilson and Sheboygan Falls and Kohl or a town of Sheboygan chip in with part of this study money? Thank you. Thank you for those comments. All their person feel. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm also not in favor of spending the $59,000 for this study. Everybody already said that the study that the union did was a good study. This company is gonna use the same numbers that they're using. How different are these really gonna be? I look at, I love Bob's comments. Thank you for those this morning, this morning, this afternoon, evening. He gives us the stats on Chief Romus, on what his accomplishments are, his, all his knowledge and stuff. I look at all the gentlemen sitting back here in our audience today with the knowledge that they have the many, many years that we have sitting right here. I think we need to put our trust in them. We hired them for their knowledge and their wisdom and we should use them. Another thing is, I don't need a study. I know we need additional firefighters. To paint a picture again, I keep looking at the south side of Sheboygan. We're running that station with two firefighters. If something happens on that side, I think I used the example the other evening of a mandoline. Let's say there's a little kitchen fire in there. They get there, there's two people there. They can't even go in to fight that fire. While they're waiting for the next person to go, that little fire inside a kitchen could turn into that whole apartment fire. Response time is so important. We need three people in that building. I don't need a study to tell me that. And I'm really worried about that side of town. I know we're doing three more firefighters. We're gonna take care of the north side. I'd rather have that $60,000 ghost someplace else. I know there was talk about putting, if we put the battalion chiefs on 24 hours, that would take care of that. That will not take care of that. They are this stair to be the command. They are not there to go inside and fight the fire. We would still have to wait for that person, another unit to get there. So that is not the answer. If we do a study on this for $60,000, where do we stop there? Do we take another study? We look at our police service. Do we look at public works? Do we have to do one there? Maybe we need to look at all the other areas. Maybe we can get a group raid from these guys. I don't think that's the answer. I'm really done with studies on all these things. We have experts in house. We hire them for their wisdom. I'm just spending money on studies and I wanna put it to work to be used. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. All the person holds you. Thank you. I, too, in fact, I'm not going to vote in favor of this. We have, this in fact would be a third opinion because we have our union people. We have our fire chief who has an accolade of many degrees and we hired him for that purpose and I do trust our department head. We've already asked the union and our fire chief to work together and come up with another report and a finding that they think might simplify and we've yet to even hear that at this point. I am concerned about the south side and the district I represent. I have, as an example, this last week, I've had two calls at a mandoline. The fire truck came, then the ambulance came. There's not three people in that station. I have two of the largest apartment complexes, two of the largest mobile home parks. I have two chemical plants. I have an industrial park. I have an alliant energy plant and we are only able to have two firemen in station five and I want to work to have that to be a three-man unit so that they can respond to everything. I am just not certain as to why all these different studies have to be done. Some of them we never even hear the reports from and then if you don't like the decision that they come up with and you're not gonna be taking that information, if it turns out that they think you should hire six more firemen, I doubt very seriously that this council is going to approve that. So I would like to have everyone support me in denying this action and let's have a time to listen to Chase and the chief as they work together, combining their report and their ideals, present that to us and move forward from that point. I also would like to add that I think the railroad tracks cuts the south side or my district off from the rest of the city and on one of these police calls of fire department calls that we just had, one of my tenants, elderly tenant fell out of his car and was trapped between his car and the garage wall. They responded and I left the scene and on my way to what happened to be our Christmas party, I sat and waited for the train to pass so that I could attend the party and that's the same thing that repetitively happens on the south side. And one of the reasons why Aurora probably does not wanna build their medical facility on the south side because of that railroad tracks and it isn't a five minute wait for a train, it's usually 20 to 25 minutes. So I'm really just more than hopeful that we would have the trust in our department heads as I have their trust in our department heads and I think that the information that they're giving us certainly they have more credentials in firefighting than the survey company has unless they're gonna hire someone out and pass that information or that price tag along to us. Let's see what the chief and Chase Longmiller have to say about the study of working together and where they can save some dollars and I think we should put any other matters regarding the fire department and moving forward on hold until we get that information. We're a bright group of people here. I'd like to see us working together and that's all I have to say about it. Thank you very much, Alderperson Heidemann. Thank you, Mayor. I guess I wanna make a point that this process if we're gonna do an analyzation or have an analyzation of this department, it doesn't affect the three officers that are already are gonna be hired. They're not gonna go away. We're still gonna hire three firefighters this year for that department. I was very impressed with the union and the approach they took to giving us information and after that meeting I'm pretty confident that we are gonna have them, that's station number five, man with three people. And if that's the case, I think if that's not being manned, I think that's the process that we can do is go to public protection and safety. Let's have something put into place where that station is manned. Again, the analyzation, I'm just not totally against it because I think we do need some analyzation but I know I wanna make sure that the people that are watching us understand that that doesn't preclude us from hiring the three firefighters that are gonna be on payroll this year. Correct? Thank you very much, all the persons boring. Thank you, Mayor. Over the holidays, well first of all, the chief was kind enough to give me the proposals from I think it was five or six different firms including Fitch and I had an opportunity to review all of them and with reviewing all of them, I agreed that this Fitch corporation was the one that was a good recommendation. In phase, I'm gonna support doing this study and the reason for it is after reading this over and reading the union's report and the chief's, there's a number of things that were not contained in either one of those and I just wanna just go over the main ones and I went over this at the committee of the whole. The Fitch report will give us a review of the financial viability of the ambulance services. Nobody questions the service that our citizens are beginning from the ambulance service, it's been excellent. The shortcoming has been in the collections of the ambulance service and I feel that having a third party company look at this can give us some suggestions to enhance that. It's much needed. The next thing that this report will give us is an evaluation of training and qualifications of the staff. The next thing they will look at is organizational analysis, staffing, management functions and effectiveness of the current system. They will also give us strategies for cost containment and additional funding. And the last thing that I wanted to highlight was enhanced collaboration, shared services and contracted services. Anybody that knows my reputation on the council, I don't take lightly spending $59,000 of taxpayer money but I think the reason we need this study is that it's hard for any organization, not just the fire department, but any organization to be self-critical or be willing to be open-minded to innovation or a better way of doing things and also being able to overcome turf protection. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments. Alderperson Trester. I am going to vote against this study because I'm studied to death. I think we hired a fire chief to do a job and he's doing a wonderful job. I think we've got two reports now, we don't need a third. What's gonna be the next study we do? Are we gonna have a study of the council to see whether we're qualified or not to be here? Are we gonna do a study to see if it's a good idea to go from 16 council members down to 10? And it is not like a GP getting a report about brain surgery done by a GP or a brain surgeon. It's like a brain surgeon and another brain surgeon. We have top of the line firemen in this area. And I'm gonna go with their report. I don't need to see anymore. I am on public protection and safety. I've heard this before and I'm voting against this. That's it. Thank you for those comments. Alderperson Holschew, and this is your second time addressing the issue. It's all, it's the last time. I just wanted to speak to Alderman Born. I have some major issues trying to understand why the fire department is always responsible for the collections of the ambulance service. I don't think the fire department and our firefighters is their job to collect ambulance service. No more is it our police department's job to collect fines from the police department. And our qualifying, we've said our qualifying is to what we want as a council as to how we are hiring our fire chiefs, our policemen. We set those qualifications. Why do we need to have an agency tell us that what we're doing and how we're doing it when we're already doing it? So I guess I take exception to what you had to say about the ambulance service. And still not going to vote in favor of this. Thank you very much. Alderperson Jose. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm gonna vote in favor of the study, not because I disagree with the chief's analysis. I do agree with the extra, firing the extra staff. And, but I just want to see a more independent report. So I'm hoping it bears out what he recommends. So I want people to understand when I'm voting in favor of the study, I am not voting against the chief's recommendation. I just want to say, I think it just makes sense to spend maybe over time, what'll be 5% of what the cost will be to see if it's the correct thing to do. Thank you for those comments. Alderperson Herman. Thank you. I'm not in favor of this study. I think we have enough information. I trust Chief Romas and Chase, they laid everything out. I believe that this should be agreed to. I'm not comfortable spending $60,000 on a study. I think we need to trust the people that we hire in these positions. We said after Chief Herman left that we wanted a chief with more education, more credentials, we've got that. I believe in him and I don't think this study's a good idea. I'm just not comfortable with it, thank you. Thank you for those comments. Alderperson Boren. Thank you, Bear. I don't want to get in an argument about billing practices of ambulances, but to give you an example, unfortunately, I've been here since the ambulance service started. About a year after we got into the ambulance service, I got an email from Chief Herman stating that because ambulance calls were not being billed correctly, that the city was stood to lose $125,000, up to $250,000. And unfortunately, the billing process error was picked up by a paramedic that came from Plymouth Ambulance. Our staff was not even billing these calls correctly. And I give Chief Herman credit for pointing out the mistake and how it was rectified. I suggested at the time that we do a forensic audit of all of those calls to try to recollect that $125,000 to $250,000. The city decided to go against that forensic audit because of the amount of paperwork and time that would have been involved. This company, if we hire them, is gonna look at ambulance billing practices nationwide and best practices nationwide and hopefully give us some adjustments to our system with our patient mix to maximize collections. I agree that the ambulance, the fire department should not be chasing accounts. That's a different department. But we've gotta make sure that the fire department is billing all of these calls correctly and to get maximum reimbursement. And I forgot what your other point was, Alderman Hohl, should we question something else I said? Pardon? Qualifying our firemen and department. This is another matter. Shortly after Chief Herman was hired, the Salary and Grievance Committee, and I was not on that committee, but I brought it to their attention, the qualifications, the educational requirements that were required by the Milwaukee Fire Department for their chief and management team. And that included a minimum of a bachelor's degree with a master's degree preferred. And at the time, I mentioned to Chief Herman, he mentioned he was upset that those qualifications were brought forward. And the Salary and Grievance Committee at that time, which I was not on, but took the information that I brought forward and passed those qualifications for future fire chiefs. Chief Herman was very, very upset at the time that those qualifications were passed because there was nobody in the Sheboygan Fire Department that could succeed him as chief if he decided to retire earlier. God forbid something happened to him. Unfortunately, there is still, as far as I can tell, a succession plan in the Sheboygan Fire Department in case Chief Romoes decides to retire, there's nobody in the fire department to my knowledge right now that has a bachelor's degree or a master's degree preferred to succeed our current chief. There has to be a culture change in the fire department that sees that there's a succession plan. And hopefully this Fitch company is gonna look at the way we're doing things in that regard and make suggestions or benefit enhancements to have these people step up to the plate and qualify to be chief. Again, if Chief Romoes retires next week, there is nobody with the educational experience, yes, but that nobody in the department right now meets the educational requirements to be the new chief. Thank you. Thank you for those comments. Alderman Person Truster. I would just like to address Alderman Born. Do you know for a fact they have no education? Do you know for a fact there's nobody in the fire department? That's speculation. Not speculation. They don't have the degrees to take the job. You can ask Chief Romoes. Do you know for sure that there is no one back there in this room or in the police department that have a bachelor's degree or better? Ask Chief Romoes is gonna succeed him. I think before we make any accusations or say things on the floor here, we should know our information. Open up the floor to Chief Romoes to answer that question about educational requirements and who's gonna succeed him. Is there any objection to Chief Romoes answering that question? Please proceed. Will you? Sure. The man's staff, I have one battalion chief that also has a bachelor's degree and I have one chief that's one semester away from obtaining his bachelor's degree. Of the five captains, gentlemen help me out, any captains? Yeah, there's at least one. And about maybe three or four lieutenants and there's other people in the firefighting ranks that will be working their way up to have a bachelor's. Not the majority, but there are some. But no masters? No masters, no. And that's preferred in the job description, correct? Yes, ma'am. Okay, thank you. Thank you, chief. Is there any other discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? Five ayes, 10 noes. Motion is defeated. Next item on the agenda is 5.2, it's been received by salary and grievances to whom was referred, resolution number 162 of 1617, Mayor Alderperson Donahue, Hydeman Lewandowski and Wolff, approving the amendments to the non-represented employee benefits policy, policy number HR 101 and recommends that the resolution be passed with the amended attachments. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. I move to accept and adopt and put the resolution upon its passage. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderperson Hydeman. Thank you, Mayor. At salary and grievance, I supported this resolution but after thinking about it, I'm gonna be voting against it. And the reason I'm voting against it is this is a quick fix. This isn't something that I don't believe is in the best interest long term for the citizens of Shboygan because of the other department, the other members of our other employees that lost benefits and would like to get the very same benefits back that they had. I think that opens a door to legal complications that we had in the past. And I believe there's, we should take the approach of building something to give the battalion chiefs something that they want in the future. Not just this quick fix, not just one thing that happened that we need to do this because we're not getting any applicants, but something that will look long term and be able to indicate to those people within that department that they wanna rise as a position of battalion chief. Thank you for those comments. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. If this resolution is not passed, our chances of hiring a battalion chief are pretty limited. There probably won't be an applicant. It's just economically not in the interest of anybody who could apply for the job to do that because of the loss of various retirement benefits. It is kind of a quick fix. I understand that. So I think the challenge if we do defeat this is going to be for Chief Romus to rethink how battalion chiefs do their jobs. Is there a way that we can approach this in some way that we won't need battalion chiefs anymore? Can we reassign these responsibilities? If we had a study, we might have some better answers for that, but in any event, I just challenge us if in fact we vote against this. And there are reasons to vote against it. I mean, it is a quick fix. It's a way to enhance the job so that people are willing to apply for it. Very few of us I think in life are going to apply for a job where we lose status, we lose benefits, we lose power. It doesn't happen all that often. So I think the quick fix makes sense. I think we need to look at it in a much longer term and in a much more complex kind of way. But I would just suggest that for today at least for tonight that we pass this and kind of keep the ball moving. Thank you for those comments. All the person boring. Thank you, Mayor. Attorney Adams, can you point out any exposure we're gonna have to employee lawsuits if we pass this and enhance benefits for one group versus another? I mean, all of the employees shared the pain when Act 10 was passed, whether you agree with or disagree with Act 10, it was passed and there was a lot of pain for our city employees, both represented and not represented. And if we're making a special exception now for one class of employees, first of all, the hard feelings part of it. But second of all, we just recently went through a lawsuit with our fire chief that cost us many thousands of dollars. What are the potential if we pass this for one group that we're opening up ourselves to legal jeopardy? Thank you. Well, you can never say that somebody won't sue you because they can sue you for anything. However, it is my opinion that the resolution is legal and that would there be a challenge? It is my opinion that we would win on that challenge. City Attorney, could you also talk about, this is allowing people who have come into supervision to claim something that they had previously as a regular employee. And I don't think that's the same with all the other employees that we have that were affected by Act 10. Well, it is true that it allows certain employees to choose to the benefits that they had when they were previously in the union rather than their current benefits. As to whether there may be other employees who would have that opportunity if we gave it to them, I don't know that answer. But it is relevant that those who this covers are somewhat unique in that they are still considered protective service, which that's the uniqueness of this group. And is it also unique that these are individuals who took leadership positions and it went effect like the mass of employees, like say in the other department of like 60 employees or 50 employees? I can't answer that particularly without knowing every position. I think as far as the legalities go though, it is something that we have the capability to do and there's sufficient reason to do so. Okay, thank you. All the person holds you. Thank you. I'm not sure where I stand on this to be quite honest and with that being said, I still want to hear what the firefighters and our fire chief can work out with the fire department. So I would like to put a motion out there to hold this document. Second. We have a motion to hold and a second. Is that debatable? Motion to hold would be debatable. Okay, is there any discussion on holding this document? Okay, on that part, Bill Alderman Thiel. Can I open up the floor for some comments? I forgot your name, I'm sorry. Sandy, thank you. Is there any objection to having the HR director speak? Scene nine, please proceed. He wants me to come in, is that right? Sure. I'm sorry, there's a bit up on me. Who may do the matter? I had a full speech prepared tonight but we couldn't jump the gun. There's no mic on. It should be on. Better? It's on. Is it on? Yeah, it's on. Just speak into it. One of the questions that came up in salary and grievances would this document as we have it written be retroactive and actually it would not. We have not had any battalion chiefs or command staff retire since 2012. We first have a resignation announcement in February of this year. What this resolution says on number 20, it says set election to be made at time of retirement notification. So that means anyone who is as of right now thinking about retiring, they would want their benefits or the option to take the benefits they previously had in the union. The biggest concern with the union members is right now if I'm a Wisconsin retiree as a firefighter and I'm 53 years old, if I retire today, I can have the city of Sheboygan's health insurance until I reach Medicare. I have to pay for it, but I have that option. If I take a promotion to the battalion chief, the way we have it written, I don't have that option. I have 18 months of Cobra. That's a big risk. It's still their cost. This benefit would give them a couple other benefits, sick bank payout, good attendance benefits, and these would have costs. We estimated about 16,000 per battalion chief that would take this option over the next three to five years. So about 32,000 in costs, but at least they would have the option. And right now, if we don't pass this, then an employee who's thinking about taking a promotion is giving up that medical insurance for all those years. That's the primary concern. Okay, now the motion was to hold. Could you speak to any difference with holding this document and what the impacts would be? I think my understanding is the biggest concern is what about the other employees? If I'm an employee in the DPW right now and I take a promotion, I have identical benefits. Today I have 18 months of Cobra. If I get promoted to supervisor at the DPW, I have 18 months of Cobra. I am a non-protected employee. I don't take a sworn oath to protect and serve. That's why my retirement benefits are starting at the age of 55. So between 55 and 65, I can retire versus another officer who has the number of years to achieve through the Wisconsin retirement, they can serve, they can retire at 53. That's a state statute. That's how they differentiate. So I am agreeing with the attorney that I don't feel that there's as much risk because this is a different group of employees. Putting this on hold to me would be a concern for all applicants interested in taking a promotion. I do think we'll get applicants, but not as many as would otherwise. Okay, is there any other discussion on holding this document? All the person bellinger. Thank you, Mayor. I attended both salary and grievance meetings and was present when this was all being discussed. And what this is essentially doing is rolling back the benefits back to pre-ACT 10 to 2011 and making this for one class of individual or one group. I get it that they're protective services, but I guess I would respectfully disagree with Attorney Adams in that we had a lawsuit before that was brought before us to settle for $25,000 because there was exposure that we had in case it didn't go our way. And we had already racked up significant attorney bills at that point in time. And so we agreed as a group to settle this. What I would like to see as part of this motion being held is to go back to that attorney that we outsource that case to and get a legal opinion from that attorney who is obviously very intimate with this type of law and would give us an opinion as to our exposure with other employee groups within the city and where we stand legally should we be challenged if we go ahead and pass this. Thank you very much. Is there any other discussion on holding? Mayor, can I say something please on that? As long as it's on holding. It's on holding. Yes, go ahead. I would be against holding this. Alderwoman, your comments. The union that we've discussed their study, my plan, we have basically agreed on a lot of things. There's some things we're gonna disagree on. But our first and foremost concern is the health and wellness and safety of the citizens and of our members. Number one, number two is fiscal responsibility. With this position being put on hold, I have a vacancy coming up Feb first, all right? And if that position isn't, I'd like to get it filled sooner than later. And I was hoping that this would be decided on tonight so that I can move forward with that process and my plan. We've already sent out the notifications for the position. And until something happens concrete, like I was thinking was gonna happen tonight, that's all in limbo. So I'd be against passing or holding it. Okay, the motion is to hold. Would the clerk please call the roll on the motion to hold? And that does mean that this would be back on our agenda at our next meeting. Five ayes, 10 noes. Motion's defeated. We go on with discussion on the main motion. I took all the other lights off so we're starting all over again, all the person boring. Thank you. Sandy, I have a question for you. First of all, before I ask my question, I don't have a problem extending these pre-Act 10 benefits to a new hire. I have no problem with that because it's gonna make it easier for the chief to hire somebody. What I need clarification on is this is not gonna go back to some other battalion chiefs that took this job knowing what their situation was gonna be a couple years ago. You talked briefly about that at salary and grievance. Can you fill the rest of the council in on that? Sure, we have two command staff members that took promotions and were hired in the promoted spot on January, 2012. Those people are considered what's called tier three and that means that they are eligible for 18 months of Cobra. What this resolution says is that upon time of retirement, upon time of a promotion into the command staff with the exception of the fire chief, and upon reaching a qualified retirement for protected sworn employees, they may retain, these employees may retain the retirement severance benefit earned at time of promotion. What we were talking about in the committee was retroactive allowing those employees to go back. We're not going back because they haven't retired. Retroactive would say that somebody retired in 2013 and we'd have to go back to that employee who retired and open the door. We're not doing that because nobody has retired. What about the ones that took the job two or three years ago, they're gonna be able to go back to their old benefits when they retire? They're gonna have an option? That's what this says. They would either go tier three, not the old, a lot of employees, including battalion chiefs, including myself, would like the non-rep benefits that existed in 2012, which includes 10 years of free health insurance. Love that benefit. That's not what we're proposing. We're saying either what they had at time of leaving the union or tier three. Not some of these benefits in some of these. It's one or the other. What did they have when they left the union? They had insurance up to Medicare eligibility. Okay. And when they took the position, what did they have? They had tier three. Tier three, which is older. 18 months of Cogro. So, just so I understand this correctly, and again, I'm gonna support the better benefits for the new hire to make this easier for the chief to hire somebody, but I am opposed to going back and giving people that already have the job the option of going back to those benefits when they retire. Then what you'd have to make a motion to is modify this recommended proposal saying for employees honor after January 1, 2017. For example, that's what you're saying. I'll make that motion. We have a motion and a second to add that date to the document. Is there any discussion on the amendment? B, I say something, Mr. Mayor. Let's go ahead. Alderman, I'm in disagreement with your position. We have fight, the people, I'll be honest, I'd like to give it to the five and not to anybody new if that makes any sense. They came from the union. They've dedicated their time. They've sacrificed in many, many ways that beyond belief, these are the people that deserve it. And then if that's the case, it's not impossible for three or four of my five chiefs to continue working and a new chief get hired and have those benefits while he's working next to the other four? To me, it just doesn't make any sense. And we're talking about four or five people here. I'm not asking for 55. You know, it just, it doesn't make any sense to me. I'm sorry. So I would be against that idea. To put this into the numbers, we have five command staff. Three of them are in tier two benefits. They have health care continuation. So those people, my opinion would be is they're going to continue with tier two. So we're down to two remaining staff members that would be deciding what benefit would benefit them. Okay, any other discussion on the motion? I just need to know who made the second. I know Alderman Bourne made the motion. Alderperson Holschew. And the motion was to amend to include January 1, 2017 in awarding. Awarding? For those promoted on or after January, 2017 was yours. The man to include it, for those promoted. That they would revert back to the original benefits they had when they were in the union. Upon retirement. Upon retirement. Promote, oh, okay. We'll add that in. We're voting on the change. We're just voting on the amendment of what Sandy just said. Okay, on the amendment, Alderperson Donahue. So what this means then, if this amendment were to pass, we would have two people who have taken the job who would be treated considerably different than the people, than the point of this whole exercise. So if I'm promoted today, and Mike and I are working side by side, he would not get the benefit, and I would get the benefit. Yeah, that just isn't good policy. So I think we should vote against this. We're talking about a really pretty tiny group of people and I think to facilitate the hiring of somebody with experience within the department, we should just do this. It really is a small amount of money. The equity is built in as much as we can do it. If we pass this amendment, we have a highly inequitable situation within the department, within this command staff. So I think we just absolutely need to vote against this amendment. Thank you, Alderperson Jose. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. If Alderman Boren's amendment passes, I probably will support this resolution where I came in here, where I was gonna vote against the resolution. Thank you for your comment. Seeing no other lights, would the clerk please call the roll on the amendment to add that date? Sandy, could you just read what they're voting on, please? A comment? For firefighters promoted on or after January 1st, 2017 upon a promotion from local 483 and then the rest would follow. Thank you. Five ayes, 10 noes. Motion or amendment is rather is defeated. We're back on the main motion. Is there any further discussion on the main motion? Seeing none, then would the clerk please call the roll for passage? 11 ayes, four noes. Motion passes. You can have your seats done. Moving on, item 5.3 is an RC by salary and grievances to whom is referred, resolution number 164 of 1617 by Alderperson Donahue, item in Lewandowski and Wolff, establishing an employee referral bonus program beginning in 2017 for eligible employees and recommends that the resolution be passed with the amended attachments. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. I move to accept, adopt, and put the resolution upon its passage. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? 13 ayes, two noes. Motion passes. Item 5.4 is an RC by salary and grievances to whom is referred, general ordinance number 35 of 1617 by Alderperson Donahue and Heidemann amending the municipal code as to add a part time code enforcement officer position in the city development department for the city of Sheboygan and recommends the ordinance be passed. Alderperson Donahue. I would move to accept, adopt, and put the ordinance upon its passage. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? 14 ayes, one noes. Motion passes. Item 5.5 will be referred to the salary and grievances committee under ordinances. Item 6.1 will be referred to public works. Alderperson Boren. Mayor on that 5.5, was that to go back to salary and grievance or was that to go back to that employee insurance committee? I thought I... Well, we were sending it back to salary and grievances because the employee group is not an official city committee, so it'll be held there. That's up to Sandy to hold a meeting in the interim and so it'll be back on your agenda with hopefully their input. Thank you. You're welcome. Under ordinances, item 6.1 is being referred to public works. Under matters laid over, item 7.1 is resolution number 156 of 1617 by Alderperson Wolf authorizing, executing the 2017 general contract between the Sheboygan County Health and Human Services Department and Shoreline Metro regarding transportation for elderly and disabled individuals. Alderperson Wolf. Thank you, Mayor. Make a motion to pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. That's before us for discussion. Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion passes. Item 7.2 is resolution number 157 of 1617 by Alderperson Wolf authorizing the city staff to submit an application to the Tony Hawk Foundation for grant funds to be used towards the Skate Park project. Alderperson Wolf. Thank you, Mayor. I make a motion to pass the resolution. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll. 15 ayes. Motion passes. Next, we'll move on to other matters. City attorney. 8.1 is an RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31, 2017, June 30, 2017 and June 30, 2018. That'll be referred to the Law and Licensing Committee. Next, we have a contemplated closed session. Alderperson Donahue. Thank you, Mayor. Under the provisions of section 1985 sub 1, sub e, I move we convene in closed session for the purpose of discussing and formulating, negotiating strategies relative to a rural health care expansion project. Second. Thank you for that motion and support. Will the clerk please call the roll for closed session. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Your aye and who else did? Ayes. And okay. 11 ayes, three noes and one not present. Motion to go into closed session passes. We'll just want to alert the viewers at home that we will be adjourning in closed session. So this will end the broadcast for tonight today. And we'll take a five minute recess.