 did it now before I forget right so it's recording now uh yeah we I think we're gonna have light attendance because Hannes is uh he was sick all week last week and he said he said he's still feeling bit under the weather and then um yeah and George is on his way to uh javascript conference I think up in Amsterdam uh so we'll just get started uh I think you may have seen the slides but let me put that on chat uh and uh people can help with notes too that would be appreciated and let me type the note to uh type in a link to the notes cool so uh we'll just get started uh so we have a pretty uh light agenda I think but uh we'll see how we do just taping typing the notes of people that are here all right so here's the agenda so basically five main topics uh the hackathon is actually uh actually kicked off I mean there are actually a couple of MRs that are already coming from Japan uh so people in APEC regions are already gotten started uh hopefully uh we'll have people joining from Japan as well but there are a couple of MRs that are coming already I think we'll have a brief discussion on the core team page this is there's an MR that's uh that George has started that I don't know if people are comment on it yet I left a couple of feedback in there uh and Winnie and Vinnie is not here but he started discussion or opened the issue on collecting feedback from first-time contributors which I thought was a good idea so we can talk around some mechanics about that and IT resources discussion one is on Slack access for core team members and I think Yakopo and others and commented on this too the issue with contributors.gitlab.com those are the sort of the main topics and I had a quick discussion about time change in March which is one of my favorite topics of the year but anything else that people want to cover or does this agenda look okay to everyone? all right cool we'll move on so quick discussion in the hackathon so hackathon we'll have a kickoff session in about 55 minutes that David and I are going to lead I mean obviously you all are welcome to to join but it's like I noted that things have already kicked kicked off for the hackathon and the couple of new things that I want to point out on the hackathon for the tutorial sessions what I did this time around was invite invited several product managers I hope I remember all of them correctly from manage verify create and configure so they'll give a basically a brief tutorial on different product product groups which I don't think a lot of the community members are necessarily familiar with and they'll also talk about some of the issues that want to highlight and ask for community members help so in that spirit what we created this time around was I mean obviously we want the volume of MRs that have come in in the past hackathons but we also wanted to encourage community members to work on some of the issues that are important for different product teams so most of them identified like one issue that we want to encourage people to work on and there's extra prize for working on those issues we'll see I mean how that goes I mean some of them it's possible that some of them might be too complicated to finish in in about 10 days but we'll see how they progress but I think we identified like eight issues that we want to encourage community members to work on and couple of them I and some of the community members already volunteered to work on them I mean one of them was a documentation on charts and there was another one I can't remember it might have been one of the verify issues that we have on the hackathon page that somebody volunteered for so hopefully we'll have the rest of them taken up by other volunteers but those are some of the new things for the for this edition of hackathon just wanted to share some numbers from previous hackathons from the Q3 event to Q4 the numbers MRs that have come in it almost like triple from the first event to the next which is phenomenal I mean I'm not quite sure we'll get that kind of a growth but that's sort of the it was really happy to see the awareness of the event so hopefully we'll see a continued growth in terms of MRs that are getting submitted and the red bar graph basically shows you for the grand prize winner how many MRs were merged so it went from like seven to thirteen but just wanted to give people an idea of type of MRs that got Georgia grand prize both time around but that's sort of a background not sure if people have any questions or David you want to add anything there but okay we're good all right so moving quickly along on the core team layout update that I mean George just put a lot of work into the MR so if you haven't done this yet I encourage you to take a look at the current iteration I thought some of the text improvements that he made were really good as well in addition to the layout so I encourage people to comment on him or submit a suggestion on the MR we think it's I think there are a couple of things that a couple of questions that George had for our web team and I think Eric's been responding to them but please let George now hopefully like in the next couple of weeks if there's anything else that needs to be done I think it's in pretty good shape and then I don't think I think most of you added an entry to the team page I mean not to put you on the spot I don't know I can't remember Vitality if you've done this or not but if you haven't if you can do that soon on on the GitLab team page that would be great I'll try to follow up with people in the next couple of weeks if they're not done so I think I'll leave it at that since George is not on the call but not sure people have any comments or questions okay all right moving right along so I mean Vinny's not here but he created an issue I think he had a collection of I mean he started a good collection of questions to ask for some contributors what their experience has been like and I think David you added a couple of suggestions there and and I did as well but I mean the rest of the folks on the call or I mean the rest of the court team members that are watching the recording if you have any suggestions on other questions that need good questions to ask I would definitely encourage you to add to the issue there I mean just as a next step I mean what I was thinking was I mean I'm sure like a lot of you know like whenever there's a I mean for I mean I try to do on a monthly basis for people who had their first MRs merged I try to reach out to them to thank them for their contributions and we've also been you've probably seen this on Twitter we've also been sending out a camper mug a GitLab branded camper mug with with the hashtag that says my first MR merged so when I do that I don't think it'll be too intrusive like we'll we can include a like a link to a Google form for people to fill out a questionnaire but just I mean that's just an idea that came to me like when I saw Benny's issue I think it was last week but not sure if people have any thoughts or quite any other ideas on how to reach out to percent contributors and get get people's feedback but yeah I mean I think the form a form could be could be good quite a lot of questions on that on that issue we might want to make sure that we put only the ones we think make sense so not to overwhelm people I think that the more questions that we put in there that are for people to to complete right I like the idea of a form perhaps something short yeah I think I count like seven questions I think that's probably like we're yeah I don't think I would want more than like eight or nine questions I want to keep it like relatively short but I don't know David if you're thinking like even less numbers and like a seven or yeah I don't think of a particular number right now I just I'd say let's keep it under under ten at least then let's I mean one thing that we can do is to look at the the suggestions that we have right now and some of them might be merged into one questions for questions right right yeah that's true like yeah I think it might be more obvious when we put these in some sort of a form uh like a google form and and see if some of these questions could be combined to make it simpler but um yeah the other question I had was do we leave these questions like open ended or do we make this like have people you know uh put a score on it between like one to ten as an example but I'm not sure if that's apical for apical to all questions um I mean obviously for things like how long do they take you to set up a gdk that's I mean that's not a multiple choice that's just uh like you know it'll be like three hours or whatever it is right but um right I mean we can do a combination I mean if we yeah multiple choice I mean we can say like 20 minutes half an hour more than half an hour right and in any case always leave um a text field for people to optionally yeah comments right yeah a google form or um I mean the other the other good option that I've used in the past is survey monkey um and yeah I think that I mean the reason why a lot of times I use survey monkey was that like a google forms I mean not just in china but in a lot of places like could be blocked behind my corporate firewall but we can explore different options but I don't know if people like other folks on the call have ideas or thoughts but I mean people are very quiet today I'm not sure I'm putting everybody to sleep I hope not but no I think for me it's a good idea yeah okay okay so you're just speaking very interesting so okay all right I'll take that so all right so yeah I guess I'll just add a comment on the on the issue um to summarize what we talked about like using a form and then and then we can kick off a I mean it's relatively simple to start a google form or a survey monkey and and start a draft survey that that we can send out so cool okay uh trying to see if Ben has joined us or not but it doesn't look like it and thank you Dave before taking notes I'm seeing that as as you type in type that in uh so there are a couple of IT resource discussions that's been going on both on multiple slack channels and and issues as well so I mean just a bit of history I mean what we did was to I mean this this was decided back in August like we wanted to give all core team members access to all of the slack channels at GitLab and and things were fine until we I mean until Ben I had Ben joined the core team and the one of the the the points that were brought up was that Ben you know works for one of GitLab's customers and then there are some concerns about there are like a private sales channels I don't know if you've all peeked into it like if you go look at any channel that starts with a underscore that's basically a like a private sales channel for like a specific account and there was a concern as to whether it's that would be okay to leave leave it open publicly so there's a there's an issue there that I mean I won't get into it's a discussion's gotten a bit long and I think both Ben and Hanna is like chimed in as well with suggestions of how to get around it so it looks like based on the last interaction from our infrastructure team they might be able to implement something in the next couple of weeks so I and I think I'll create a merger quest to update the handbook as well there was a tool like a tools and tips page with the section on slack basically I mean my main point I haven't thought about the exact text yet but what I'll suggest is that I mean all the private channels should start with a underscore and I mean that should just I mean so the core team members I don't think would be allowed back into those channels I you know I don't think that's a big issue like I don't think I mean even I didn't know about those channels until a couple months ago until like I'd invited to a customer discussion so I don't think that's a big loss for the core team but the other thing that I'm going to ask the GitLab team members to do is that in the public channels like do not discuss any private like customer information I don't think that'll be that hard but there was basically a concern about that from from a couple of people from from GitLab so I'll create a merger quest to update the handbook in the next few days and hopefully you know we can I mean poor Ben he hasn't been able to get access to or or any of our GitLab like Slack channels in the in the past couple of months but hopefully that will be resolved if this takes too long my input and solution was to just give Ben access to like seven to ten like channels that are that most most of the core team members are using like things like you know release post obviously like contribute and core team channel but hopefully this will get resolved soon but that's sort of where things are it's it's taken a lot longer than that I anticipated this to just to come to a conclusion but hopefully we'll get it resolved soon but that's sort of where where things stand cool I'd like to to ask about this issue I I don't understand completely what's the difference between core team members and employees I mean both signed NDA paper and is it enough to is it enough for opening all Slack channels for them because if we're talking about about leaking information and and it may be it may be leaked from anybody I mean both employers and core team members so what's the difference why employees have access there and core team members don't have access I mean not those channels with a prefixes I mean the the ability to join any slack channel yeah I mean I think the sensitivity that's something that we just didn't think about back in August when we just said okay we're gonna give everyone like whether core team members or employees access to all the slack channels we just didn't think about like a I mean this was definitely a corner case when what if a core team member also happens to work for one of our customers right because it's possible that I mean you know I don't know if it exists there could be a competitor company channel under a underscore to to the company that Ben works for and there's there's a sensitive discussions about a deal that's happening and it's probably not appropriate uh for you know for him to have access to that information like regarding any deals or you know sales figures or any of that like a sensitive topic so that was just brought up recently and that's you know obviously something we didn't think about back in August but that's where uh you know the concern is coming from but I mean Vitali I'm not sure if I answered your question or not but no I'm not sure I understood everything you said but yeah so Vitali I think the main the main difference here is is rather it's less of this the distinction between a core team member and a member and a team member from the company is more the distinction whether the core team member works for a particular company so let's say you work for company A and company A is a is a customer at GitLab so if there are internal conversations within GitLab about a deal that we're trying to do with that company we wouldn't want the employer to to know to know about this and then also if they are if company A has a competitor company B and then we will we will want that team member from company A to know about the deal that we're doing with company B um yeah I got it but uh employees have uh their friends that could work on company A and they can they can speak with their friends and the information would be leaked yeah but I think that's less uh that's um that's less of a risk I would say than someone working directly from a particular company and um uh like going into one of those channels I would say I mean that's what just my my my opinion though but I mean I can see I can see that case but I think there's less of a chance um of this happening rather than um um yeah being someone from from a particular company and then learning about uh I think in any case it would be it would be corner cases because we um we go with um assuming best intentions but still I think some of the deals that we do with some with some companies there are there are particular clauses that say that um yeah competitors should not know about about the deals and then if that company learns that there is someone from a competitor company that can see their channels then um then customers are not really happy about this yeah I mean Vitaly your point is valid I mean I I work in Silicon Valley where it's not unusual to have like neighbor across the street that's working for your competitor right and then but I mean this is all I mean this is trying to mitigate like potential risk um so I mean there's I mean there's there's nothing we can do to reduce all the risk that's just not possible but um trying to do as much as we can to mitigate any potential potential risk or conflict of interest so Ray one question though yeah do employees need invitation to enter those A underscore no I don't think I don't think you do um but um so so with the compromise that we're discussing is that I mean employees have access to all the A channels I mean I didn't actually didn't know about it until I got invited um but I mean you can find them like you can go like because I mean everybody can do that now like all the all the core team members too you can just type A underscore and like search for whatever channel that you think might exist so so the proposal is like all the private conversations will will happen under A underscore channel and I think this might I mean I'm not 100% sure this might be extended to other like non-employees at GitLab as well because we also have other external people that have access to our Slack channels like advisors and so forth but so I mean that will be discussed through the MR but my impression is that all the external audience will be excluded from like a private channels but I'll try to make that clear in the MR so it's not just we're not just like you know quote-unquote targeting or just zeroing you know under core team members you know yeah would you totally feel free to uh add to the open terms on the MR please we're discussing it in any case yeah it's not just makes sense uh I have to collect my thoughts and type it later okay any other thoughts or questions I think it'd be great if to see I'm seeing how that works it might be great I mean that's a bigger topic that's a topic for a separate conversation right but I'm wondering if that work could help us as well opening up some of the channels as well to the public I'm not just core team members and GitLab employees at some point yeah I mean there were even discussions I mean Remy you may have you may have been I mean you may be aware of some of these discussions but I think like there was even discussion about creating a I mean it costs a lot of money creating a separate Slack instance so that that's completely open to the public um but I mean I mean I think that just involves a like I mean a lot of budget you know to do that like having like one just internal Slack instance in a public one but uh but yeah I think to go back to Vitaly's point I think this point is very valid in the sense that we all sign an NDA to not leak information right so I think we should if we don't trust the NDA then we should probably sign an NDA yeah yeah you know that's a point right I think no I mean yeah thanks thanks for writing your notes there Remy but yeah I mean I think that's a valid question to ask in NDMR and I would have like a legal folks way in there yeah I mean if we if we can avoid like having to to block these channels by having someone from the legal department say hey the NDA is covering that so there's no need maybe that's just simpler I don't know okay yep point all right so moving to the next topic and and I think Yakopo you you chimed in on this issue as well regarding contributors.gitlab.com I didn't realize it wasn't being updated I thought it wasn't being updated for the last couple of weeks but not since like 11.3 that's like several months ago but Yakopo do you want to like talk about this or yeah it's mostly just an adult and stuff because basically we find out that contributors.gitlab.com is frozen since quite a few months now and this is due to an infrastructure issue that will be fixed hopefully soon and there's also another discussion going on which is basically the idea of moving the contributors.gitlab.com to our contribution graph feature so that's both both things moving both concepts and yeah well personally I used a lot that website contributors.gitlab.com and it's also open to the public and there's quite a few links around to that site so I think it's quite important to update to fix the issues up at least because I feel that other contributors also use it and if you don't see your name going up or down whatever might be an issue for our community. Yeah yeah I actually got pinged by somebody who had their first MR merge I mean the first place is the person check was his page and they said why isn't my name showing up and I told them it's it's been it's hasn't been updated on a regular basis and actually sent that person to the Vitergia dashboard but yeah I mean I think people do do look at them and then because I mean that's sort of I mean they want to see their name on there even if they have to scroll all the way to the bottom they want to see their stats right so the exactly and also I think is more I mean it's like a race contributor website people go there and I feel like as more page view the contributors website rather than Vitergia or others so it's it's quite important I think to make make make sure it's up to date at least yeah I think I made a point one comment and the issue that if it's if it's you know not being regularly updated we should at least put an error message at the top that's saying this hasn't been updated since whatever date so that at least people know and they're not misled but uh but it doesn't sound like we had we I mean we could potentially point them to the Vitergia dashboard for now for lack of other alternatives but you should add the link perhaps but not I wouldn't shut down the website because as a different set of features and so on and it's very similar to the other open source projects websites so I find the UI quite intuitive and simple so I think it's quite good overall I wonder if I mean I'm just rereading the the issue I mean one of the comments is that I mean the main point of the issue here is to essentially move the functionality of contributors.itlab.com to itlab itself which seems to be a big project but I mean in the meantime I wonder what we could do as like the minimum steps to to correct to correct this I mean one thing could be yes at the message on contributors.itlab.com what are you saying but I might be wrong on this but I don't think there's an issue to actually make sure that the contributors page is kept up to date I mean this is something that would be a lot of a lot of work if it's not and then I would say let's make sure that it keeps up to date unless we have a better solution. From what I've seen there is an infrastructure issue related to to that and the software coding work has been done already is mostly an infrastructure work to be done okay from what I know. Do you know if it's linked on that on that issue that I don't remember. I think it's mentioned there like I mean maybe I'm wrong let's go to the issue either Mattia or somebody oh not that one sorry. Yeah there's a yeah I could it migrate contributors I'm gonna add it. I saw the link there okay is it this one or migrate yeah yeah yeah this one I think. Yeah that's the migrating to a different hardware it looks like right it doesn't have a I don't think but yeah so Ray perhaps the action here is to talk to the infrastructure team to see if this can be put back on on the schedule. Yeah well thanks for that I think the original issue is like several months old if I'm not mistaken it's pretty old like hasn't been over the address for a while. Yeah I think it's just a matter of contacting the infrastructure and finding out whether it can be put on the schedule. Okay cool so right yeah thanks for adding the relevant links there on the slides okay I think one last slide. So any other topics so it's my favorite time of the year when the daylight savings or the summertime starts in in North America and Europe. I mean it's it's annoying enough that the time has to change that they change the time in a different week in the US and Europe so it makes it really fun. So I mean we don't have to spend a whole lot of time here if we keep the current meeting time that we have so you know where I am and where Ben is it'll still be 11 o'clock at night which which is okay with both of us but I think like where you are Vitale the meeting will be at five I assume that would be okay but I think the bigger problem is people in in in CET in central European time you have to get up really early in the morning from for one meeting in March. I think this will go back to eight in the morning starting in April but not sure what to really do about the meeting in March is do we just keep it at the same time and just make sure that people in central European time have plenty of coffee or yeah that's fine that is for me that's fine you're okay Remy like yeah what about you Yuyako Po and and David like we can deal with it yeah just for for one yeah okay don't don't don't mind me I'm not part of the core team but I'm happy to more than happy to start seven no worries okay all right cool so we'll just keep it keep the meeting time for for for March for now and I think April it'll be it'll be sort of back to normal I don't know but in in Russia Vitale you guys don't do summertime right is that correct like you guys keep the same time throughout the year like I think 5 p.m. is good enough for me and I don't see that time okay yeah I'll yeah I'll have to inquire inquire about Japan like hopefully like it's middle of the afternoon hopefully it'll be okay but um so hopefully we won't have to like I mean there unfortunately isn't a really good option if you want to just keep like the one meeting slots each month but so it looks like March will be okay but we'll see how it goes with April and beyond okay I think that's yeah that's the last all the topics I had like anything else that people want to cover we have about seven minutes left if not we can end early and I'm not sure how many of you will join me and David on the kickoff call in about 20 minutes but hopefully see you guys either on Gitter or one of the calls during the hackathon so all right thanks you thanks for your time everybody thanks