 So, as we have done with our other meetings, I'm going to start with a statement of the indigenous heritage of the land and also an acknowledgement of contributions of African Americans. And I want to first welcome a few new people to our group this session. Jeremiah LaPlante is the facilities manager for the town. And Chris Brestrup is the planning director. So thank you both for taking the time to join us this evening. So I will begin first by saying that I'm Stephanie Chickarello I'm the sustainability coordinator for the town. And my pronouns are she her and hers. We ask that the first time you speak you please identify yourself and also your pronouns. So to begin with our statement. I would also like to read the statement of contribution of African Americans by Amherst community leader Lauren Mills. Amherst recognizes the generations of African Americans. I would also like to read the statement of contribution of African Americans by Amherst community leader Lauren Mills. Amherst recognizes the generations of African Americans that have contributed to the development of agriculture and historical academic preservation from the past to the present. We also recognize the rich spiritual culture, artistic contribution and pursuits of justice that have enriched the communities in which African Americans have lived, worked, persevered and achieved. And normally at this time I would turn this over to Gazikaya but they are unfortunately not able to be with us this evening so I'm going to go over our group agreements for this session. And for us when we have meetings like this to have agreements about the ways we'd like to be respectful of one another. And I'm going to introduce some, some of these agreements that we've discussed in previous meetings and that we will apply in this meeting today. So first and foremost, please put people in relationships first. Think about the issues that we're talking about with one another and how they affect people and think about building understanding rather than winning or getting our individual goals met. So, we're not trying to win people to our side and our viewpoint we're trying to build understanding with one another. So, we want everyone to take care of themselves as part of this meeting and each other. And so we encourage you to take a break if you need to check in with one another if you feel you see something or see someone and you can check in with them. If you have children and you need to attend to your children please by all means do so. And if you have pets that need your attention feel free to take time to attend to your pets. So whatever you need to do, feel free to step away, use the restroom, get some food, just be comfortable in this space as best you can. We encourage people to keep their cameras on during the meeting but if for some reason you're not comfortable with doing that or you have connection problems feel free to turn your video off. As your microphone we ask that unless you're speaking, please keep your microphone off as often it picks up background noise so we'd appreciate being able to hear whoever speaking. A second agreement is that we would like people to watch your language speak very slowly and clearly so that people can understand avoid jargon. That's very technical in nature. So just for translation we don't necessarily need translation but certainly take your time in what you're saying and be clear and mindful of just of delivering your information to folks. If you have a question feel free to raise your hand and let people know and the facilitators will acknowledge you if you want to contribute to the conversation. Also we'd like you to step up and step back. So if you're someone who tends to be quiet, we really encourage you to bring your voice to this conversation and to speak up. If you're someone who tends to talk a lot. Please take a moment to step back so that others can have an opportunity to share and have their voices heard as well. Another agreement is that we would like it that people don't pry and people keep their information private so if someone is giving you some information please don't ask for more. Please allow people to deliver what they're most comfortable with delivering to the conversation and not try to get more and elicit more from them if they're not willing to give it. And also, it's important that we understand that people are coming here to this meeting with their own cultural values. So what is something that is comfortable or normal or acceptable in your sphere may not be necessarily so in someone else's. So we want everyone to be respectful of each other's cultural backgrounds and to give each other space in that and to be open to asking questions if there's something you don't understand feel free to ask questions. With that, I will turn it over to Lauren. Hi everyone, my name is Lauren I use your pronouns and I'm with the consulting team working with Jim and because he can't be with us tonight. I'm going to do a little introduction to resilience but first I'm going to pass it off to our co chair Sarah to review some of the homework experiences from our last meeting. Take it away. Thanks Lauren. My name is Sarah, I use she her pronouns, and you will most certainly hear my child in the background they're playing just outside my door. So I apologize in advance. So if you were at last week's meeting or homework, albeit optional homework was to either call or write to your town counselor or counselors if you have to in your district to ask that the $80,000 that they have set aside for social justice work to ask that that gets allocated towards establishing avenues for increased participation in town governance. So using that money to make town governance accessible for people who would otherwise not have the capacity or resources or availability to participate. So if you chose to do that exercise if you wrote to your town counselor, we would love to hear about it. Did you get any feedback? Was it encouraging, frustrating, were there any outcomes, or maybe even, you know, what did you learn in reflecting on what that might look like right if we if that were to be successful. We would love to hear if you participated in that homework. I wasn't here for the last meeting. So I just want to be clear. So I know there is some differences with this $80,000 I know the racial equity task force is looking for what you're saying are you aligning with what the racial equity task force wants or you're suggesting that the money be done for something else. Sarah I just want to be clear. Thank you for asking. We have we're not. We don't have a member of that group as part of this task force. But to my knowledge we're trying to get in front of town council in a myriad of ways. And to advocate that that money gets decided upon by the racial equity group and so our participation is I think, just another another. What am I trying to say. Another voice right trying to advocate for ways that we could bring in more people into the realm of making decisions in town governance. Okay, I just wanted to be clear, you know, because I think my problem is that I mean I wasn't axed because I mean, like I'm going to be quite honest I mean people just, you know, I just, like I said I'm in the space because I guess it you know and like, you know, like, when I found out about this I'm like let it be organically done. Let the people of color decide what this is going to look like white people cannot decide for us. You know Dr King marched right MLK marched and they had different visions, and if they were to leave it up to white people back then in the 60s with the movements or even the feminist movement or the LGBTQ because it's basically simultaneously. Nothing would ever get done. So allow black people or people of color to really decide how to what that looks like, because if you really want accountability. You know, and that's what it lacks. I mean so I appreciate you using your voice and speaking out on behalf of you know I'm not officially a member of the recognition like it's a task force. I mean I collaborate with them I you know give my input when asked attend some meetings. But people have no clue right like just let it happen but everybody still wants to control what it looks like that the school that the town council wants you know Paul Buckerman to put together committee of people, you know we're going to do the interview and you know he's not getting people, basically, because he wants to control it, and that cannot work. You have to let black people or brown people decide if you want real accountability. You allow them to come up with a system that if you really because it's going to be uncomfortable right. It's going to be uncomfortable. But that this comfort is what's going to push growth that this comfort is what's going to make changes, we can't be just comfortable in this little cocoon where you're really saying oh yeah we're having this committee, and you know we're just going to make it seem right. Like oh yeah we're doing something when we're really doing nothing, and then it's still being controlled by people who are really not. Who have not excavated their identity to be part that they haven't. How can they decide how can a bunch of white people I'm sorry and I'm not being disrespectful, but how can they town council decide because they want to also interview. What the hell, how are they going to know. They don't know. You know, I mean these shabazzes, I mean, she's out there, you know and I'm just saying it's exhausting. It's exhausting and I just have to really I mean about self care mode. So I really I'm very careful. I pick my battles and I go into spaces that I think my voice is going to make a difference and I'm going to be heard. You know, it's just it's frustrating just to see on the sideline, and you're like, oh my god. You know what I'm saying there's a lack of to really do. People are just not being good brokers in really what they're what supposedly it seems that they're trying to achieve so I mean yeah people have to do the work. People have to do the work in terms of it's not doing to one on doing one on one on doing racism workshop and says okay yeah I've got to know it's ongoing. It's having conversations. It's listening to people that look like me is then it's a piece of black and brown people and listen to what they have to say, because they have been traumatized. And it's not okay. I appreciate you being here and I always appreciate everything that you have to say. I think it's, it's so so so important. And part of what we've been uncovering in this group is that we want your voice and people who want to be part of town governance to be compensated for the labor that you're doing that you should be paid for your time and your energy. And so if I wasn't clear about the the homework that's what we're trying to do with this task group and in town governance going forward we want to we want people of any background and any demographic to to to break down barrier so that's not just white people in the room. And that's one way that we thought would be perhaps beneficial if not that chunk of money. We would like it to come from somewhere else at some point. John I think you're john you're on mute. Okay, now. I have two rights to my two district five representatives, Shalini and Darcy. And I actually did not get a response from Darcy. I did get a response from Shalini, which I don't think understood what I was asking. I will tell you, I'll quote a little bit from the email that I sent to them. I honestly think that the Shabazz or anybody else would have a problem with this in the racial equity group. I started by outlining a number of problems that we discussed in this building task force, and also problems that I was aware of elsewhere. I said one approach to these problems would be to encourage tenants to organize however many work and have childcare responsibility that cuts into the time to set up meetings, talk to other individuals about getting involved, represent them tell themselves before town council or its committees, or to meet with town officials. We will lack the resources to pay for internet access, various kinds of software to support their efforts, funds to pay for printing, etc. Without time and other resources, the likelihood that we will see greater participation from renters and town government is vanishingly small. Thank you. One idea that was raised at the building task force is to have the town underwrite the costs required to develop a renters coalition. Renters make up an estimated 40% of the Amherst population, yet their current capacity to actually be heard in the halls of town government is not very impressive. Everyone nice letters inviting them to enjoy the benefits of greater participation, but that is not likely to be very effective. If we are serious about inviting them in, we need to give them the resources to organize. So that's basically what I said is a little bit more as I said outlining problems I did send copies to, I guess at least Stephanie and Gaza Chai and I don't know if they shared that with other people. But like I said I really didn't get much of a response I got no response from Darcy, and honestly, a response from Shalini that suggested that she was confused by what I was asking. I could have followed up with both of them on the phone, but unfortunately, there's been a lot going on in trying to develop affordable housing in Amherst right now and so I just didn't have the time to do it. I don't know, Georgia what you think of what I wrote but I think it was intended to put the resources in the hands of renters, many of whom I know are black and brown people. Do you know if anybody else wrote letters? Not that we've seen. Has anyone know? I drafted one but I have not sent it yet. And this is Jeanine I didn't even know about the whole writing letter thing so I didn't do one. And if you would like to we can give you the prompt it's there's no timeline it's just something that we wanted to start a conversation about so if you feel like you'd like to do that we can speak afterwards. Yeah I think if we don't feel comfortable writing these kinds of letters to town council, then honestly we're not going to be very effective as an advocacy group. As I've said before a couple of times, I do think that's one way we need to see ourselves. Thank you. Thank you, John. Any other thoughts on this particular topic needs to it really needs to be a requirement that people who are serving in these positions have to do some serious training. They can make decisions with a multicultural community, and they cannot be making decisions. They can't how can they make decisions. How can they, you know they can make decisions. They don't have the lens. So they really need to go through some training. You know they have to get some training it has to be a commitment they have it has to be a it should be a requirement that they have ongoing training. Because they're sitting in that space occupying that space and they just, it's like, yeah, blinders on. You know, convinced that they're doing the right thing. When they're really doing the opposite. You know what they're doing is what they're doing is actually harming rather than good. And I mean the decisions that they have made some of the decisions that they have made, you know have clearly demonstrated that. That they're just in roles that they're really not up to the part to meet the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the cultural makeup of the community. Because the decisions that are made are made from the lens that they know and influenced by the people who have the power. You know, I was kind of outrageous office a quick, when I found out I mean actually spoke at one of the things when I found out that they have closed all the voting stations and were having one and their response was I'm like how does that decision arrived that they're like oh because the people who was for it and against it were equal. And you know one of the things that one of my mentors have said to me and I'm like you know and I wrote to them also I said foundationally. And the decision that you make, you know I was told if you're not, if you're at the table. And if you're in a position to make any kind of policy, you, the people who you think of are the people who are marginalized. The people who are vulnerable, the people who are disadvantaged, because when you make that policy or you make a decision factor in in those people. The people are going to be okay. And we have to get in the habit of doing that. It's not going to affect the other people you know I'm saying if you're taking a consideration that okay. These are the people we want to make sure they're okay and all of this other people. Yeah, they're going to be okay their lives are not going to change. Thank you Georgia both Lauren and Jim are taking diligent notes. So that nothing you say gets forgotten or glossed over. If there's no one else I think I give it back to Lauren. Thanks Sarah. Yeah I just really want to acknowledge some of the things that Georgia and John both raised around the need for deep listening for creating and allowing for the leadership of black and brown people. For sharing power with the black and brown community. And for addressing the systemic barriers to participation that underlie a lot of what we're talking about. So thank you both for sharing and reflecting on those experiences with the group. It leads in really nicely as well to the piece that I'm going to talk about here. My internet is a little bit spotty. So I apologize in advance if I do freeze at any point I'm going to do my best to avoid that. I'm going to share my screen with a few slides to take us through a little bit of background about the concept of resilience, climate resilience to tee up the conversation that we're going to have throughout the rest of the meeting about the major actions that have come up so far in our conversations. So bear with me one moment while I share my screen. I'll see the slide that I have up there, thumbs up if yes. Great. Thank you. Awesome. So, as I mentioned before, my name is Lauren, I use she her pronouns, and you all haven't heard that much for me so far in the process because I've been the one in the background diligently taking those notes. But we decided to switch things up a little bit today and Jim is our expert note taker so thank you Jim. And I wanted to note that, though I'm currently living in Portland, Maine, I lived in Western Mass in Valley for two years, while I attended UMass, and I'm just extremely grateful to be working with this community and with this group of people, because it really does have a special place in my heart. So thank you for having me. So, as I mentioned, we wanted to start off the conversation today with a little bit of a background on the idea of climate resilience. So, as we've been talking about climate change with this group, what keeps coming up is that people's lives are pretty unstable right now in terms of things like housing food transportation job security. And all these things are affected by climate change. So how vocal it is for some folks to live in Amherst and how wonderful it is for others, and how connected these things are to systems of governance, as Georgia was just speaking about. Then we've been also talking about the drivers of climate change, like burning fossil fuels and how that relates to quality of life. So, we have this idea of climate mitigation, which is sort of protecting our environment and reducing our impact on the environment. And then we have this idea of climate resilience, which is really about improving quality of life and becoming more resilient to climate change. And we want to keep both of these priorities on the table as we're making this plan. So, I'm just going to go to the next slide. So in the context of climate change, resilience is often defined as a community's ability to bounce back from shocks and stressors like floods, like droughts, power failures, and even pandemics. But what we've heard over the course of our meetings together is that bouncing back to the way things have been only makes sense if you start off from a place of stability, and that much of our community is living without that stability right now. We've also been recognizing that this means that many folks in the community are not able to participate in the full range of climate actions that are necessary to achieve the town's goals, and that that reality is out of step with our values and our principles. So instead, I wanted to offer a definition of climate resilience as bouncing forward, moving toward stability toward better conditions and toward better outcomes as a way of becoming more resilient to climate change, especially for our renters are low income residents and our black indigenous communities and people of color residents. So bouncing forward, what does that mean. It means sharing risks and opportunities more equitably in our community. So when it comes to buildings, which is what we're here to talk about today. This could look like requiring landlords to disclose the energy efficiency of a unit to any prospective renter so that renters can make informed decisions based on the full picture of a unit's cost. It could look like requiring the participation of local renters in building development and major renovations and upgrades and things like that with the intention of preventing displacement and gentrification, which is something that we've talked about a fair bit with this group. So these strategies can both improve our ability to weather climate impacts without having to worry about how we're going to afford our energy bills, for instance, while also addressing equity and encouraging more energy efficient buildings. These are just a couple of examples. I'm going to do on and I'm sure that this group has many other great ideas about what types of actions could improve our climate resilience. So, and how we can share risks and opportunities more equitably in the community. So with that, just sort of little intro, I'm going to pass things over to our co-chair Jesse to introduce the major actions that have come out of the process so far and kick off our discussion. Thanks, Lauren. So, it's funny, just thinking about this, I have to make, I feel like I do need to say that the act of listening in this case looks like me talking. And so I really want to make this introduction to say that this is we're trying to reflect back what we've heard. And I think in the context of we're, we're very ready to be wrong. And the idea is, in fact, I really don't mind being wrong. The idea is to be wrong in a context where someone can say, no, you didn't hear me right. No, that's not a good idea or you're close, but so that's the context that I think this is and maybe we got it right but essentially these are potential ideas and actions that we're talking about in this group, the coordinated effort in the other groups to put into our plan and move forward. And so I think really to in earnest begin to convert our buildings to use to produce less greenhouse gas emissions. A handful of different ways electrification, reducing the amount of energy places use supplying renewable energy on site, etc. Number two is to try to change the legislation is we're looking really hard at where we can make change. Through legal channels and require and require buildings and maybe it's to reach net zero. But maybe it's just that may or may not be the right phrase but see basically to be more resilient, have a lower climate impact I think is how I would say it. Really excited about this idea of prioritizing the rental housing. That's such a big part of our community and not just for the climate change aspects but we've added in these phrases like thermal comfort, acoustic separation indoor air quality and and what that means is there's less energy but you're hot still hot in the summer and cold in the winter that that doesn't matter so it's spaces that are more pleasant to be in that's what thermal comfort is acoustic separation. Maybe that installation also gives you greater privacy so you don't have not hearing your neighbor or the weed whacker outside, and then indoor air quality. Another huge part of improving a building is it's not just about the energy. It's the air you breathe or we all breathe inside we spend so much time inside and even more these days, it seems that air needs to be healthy air, safe air. We're looking at supporting advocacy and tenants association and really trying to understand and see how these things fit together, and one is not possible without the other. It's not sustainable without it being fully inclusive, and then adopting formal affordable housing goals that reflect the town's current demographics and needs, and so those are those are five I think there's more that we certainly we could go on and on there is a lot of activity of action needed, but those are the five and I think the idea now is, Lauren's going to put you have an activity in order to kind of elicit responses to this list is that right. So we'll launch into that now and I'll just say that Jesse is also here to answer any questions that folks have or if there are any refreshers on anything at all. I'm also here to answer questions and and help guide the discussion. So, the first sort of thing that we wanted to do with this set of actions was to ask you all a few questions and on this list. What would be the most meaningful outcomes for the plan, and why. So what would be your top priority on this list, if you could see one thing coming out of the plan what would it be. And is there something a key action that you feel like is missing from this list. What surprises you about this list or make sense to you about this list, especially after having been through the last two meetings that we've had So that's sort of the setup and the way that we're going to do it is to have to give everyone three minutes to speak on all of those questions or anything else that comes up for you around these actions. And we're going to give everyone three minutes and I'll keep time. And then if we have extra time left over at the end, we'll open it up to more of a discussion and folks can build off of what each other has been saying. So, please raise your hand if you would like to jump in, and we'll go around and make sure that everyone has a chance to jump in before we, before we take second comments from folks. John I see you have your hand up. And just don't forget to unmute yourself. Okay. I actually think it's a pretty good list. I can't think of anything right off the top of my head that is not included although I'm sure if I went back to the minutes of the meetings I'd find something, but I think that's irrelevant. Overall what I see on the list is things that I know are going on elsewhere. If you look at housing plans for other communities, you will find all of these things on there except number two, which I think has to do more with state legislation than local legislation, although it is something that town council could commit itself to. But mostly I think that's a state level issue. I think moving toward all of these things is great. There is a working group of the town's community resources committee that is attempting to create a general housing policy for the town. And all of these things could fit into that. I think the problem becomes is all of them have costs associated with them. And that's going to kind of create issues with town council, because they're competing priorities for money. I really can't name a top priority myself. I mean to is sort of easy to say I'm in favor of, as are the others but to as I said I think of more as advocating at the state level. There may be other issues if the town wants to do them. The town needs to come up with money or a way of having maybe some tax relief for building owners who, for example, would work towards number three. There may be some way for number one to do some kind of tax relief for people who are willing to engage in changes to their buildings. There are also town buildings that we could begin with. So generally I like the list. And I think it's a reasonable list for us to be advocating for. The town council. And right now, specifically before the community resources committee, which is working on a general town housing policy. Thanks, John. That's a really great important piece of information to be sharing with the group. Also, I want to press you a little bit if you'll entertain me around the notion of prioritizing you mentioned how there, there are limited funds and there will be a need to prioritize things in order to get them done. So if one of these had to happen first, which one would it be for you. Well, as the chair of the Amherst municipal affordable housing trust, I would pick number five. Basically, I think it's extremely important for us to be producing more affordable housing in town. I mean one of the reasons why renters are working with existing landlords have issues is because there's really a scarcity of affordable housing. So, if we can move on creating affordable housing, productively, I think that would be great. And, as I said, my job as a volunteer as the chair of the housing trust is to try to see that happen. Myself and lots of other people, for example, we're advocating for the development of studio apartments at 132 North Hampton Road. Before the ZBA they're closing in on finishing and I think that they'll end up recommending a comprehensive permit. And that project will be great. It'll probably take another two years before the first tenant walks in the door, but we need to get more projects like that into the pipeline. So, from the my personal bias, I'm going to choose number five. Thanks, John. Appreciate it. So, who would like to go next. Chris. Yeah, go ahead. Don't forget to unmute yourself. Chris riddle in her. My, my particular co salado that I work on all the time is the existing building stock I'm interested in the existing building stock because it is such a huge problem. How do we attack make the existing building stock for energy efficient. It's a particularly important issue in the context of residential housing and people, the people who are living in the existing residential building stock private sector residential building stock. I don't know the numbers but I expect that there, it's a big chunk of the population of the town. And it tends to be a population that's underrepresented. The only thing is that so I would vote for number three there I would say that if I have a highest priority, figure out a way to upgrade the existing residential building is the public existing residential multi family buildings in town, and do it in a way that will not. Cause, make those places make those living units on affordable to the people that are there. And I think that's, I think that's a very, very large problem because I don't have the answer to, I don't know how to do that. I don't know where do we can find the very large sums of money to both renovate those houses and make them make them well insulated and airtight and then put in a air source heat pump or something like that to cool them. I don't have money. That's what's bothering me so I like the list here I like the goals implicit in this list, but the devil is in the detail of how do we fund it all as john suggested. And I think the figuring out how to do it in the public sector or in the subsidized, and partially subsidized sector is, I can imagine figuring that out. I don't know how to deal with the existing privately owned building stock that's, it's occupied paying the bills and the owners of those buildings see no incentive to invest large sums of money in it. So that's the problem that I care about most. And so I wrote the three. Thanks Chris. Yeah, I think I froze there for a second. But I was just saying I think you're pointing to a few really important things there. I found sort of the tension between improvements to buildings and gentrification and affordability, which is definitely a tough nut to crack, and, and sort of the idea of aligning incentives for owners to be willing to commit to making those upgrades. Those are really important issues to raise and things that will have to tackle as a community to make these, these actions work. All right. So, folks who haven't jumped in yet. I want to check in with. Yeah, Jim. Jeremiah has raised a sand. Thank you. I can't see the participants list while I'm sharing my screen. So Jeremiah, please go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to say that I agree with, oh, Jeremiah. He is sorry. I do agree with Chris and I feel that number three seems for me in my opinion to be a priority. And I think largely it's due to the fact that like, like just sort of echoing what he had said is, we have, we have a lot more existing rental properties and we do have new properties going being being built and even if it's smaller residential. And also just looking at number three, I almost feel that some of these other items might get cleaned up if, if all of three was in place. So if we if we had tenants entering into properties that had more thermal comfort, you know, better acoustic separation better indoor air quality that say number four where you have this quality of life. That that's that will go up in a lot of ways because these are things that have already been addressed prior to them crossing the threshold. So I think if we can find a way to encourage property owners to to look at all of those those concerns. I think that there's going to be this really positive trickle effect through the community and help with a lot of these other other items. Thanks Jeremiah, and I'm curious in your experience have you seen successful examples of that kind of partnership or initiative that has engaged owners and prioritizing upgrades and and sort of leading to those ripple impacts that you're talking about. Have I had those experiences. Certainly I would say and they're the avenues for incentives. I think they're out there but some of them are becoming a little bit more challenging. So there is funding there is funding and I'm sure Stephanie will agree that there is funds out there but some sometimes getting getting a hold of them has become a lot more challenging if we were to look back five, six or more years. They were they were just knocking down your door to try to get you to take take some of these the funds or or some of these improvements. I still think I think that's going to be the greatest challenge with with a lot of that is just acquiring some of these different funds and and I don't know. I don't know that everyone out there will know how to get to them. Because you do have to sort of navigate a labyrinth of campaigning and documentation to get to them. I'm not sure if I answered any of your questions, I just sort of losing track here. No, I think it's a valuable perspective. I'm reminded of a conversation I had earlier with earlier today with a member of one of the other task groups, sort of connecting the ideas of COVID recovery and climate resiliency, and where there might be some opportunities there and sort of to what Jesse was speaking to earlier about sort of indoor air quality being so important to health and and sort of the health of buildings being so important to the health of people who inhabit them. Are there ways when and when and if hopefully there will be COVID recovery stimulus to use those funds in ways that also have beneficial results for for climate resiliency and for the quality of life issues that we're talking about here. So that's one thing that's been coming to mind for me it's it's not something that we know for sure is going to happen but there's no doubt that as as many folks have pointed to massive investments will be required. regardless. And, and we can make those investments in ways that enhance our climate resiliency and our quality of life or that go back to the way things were but, as we've been saying, going back is not really good enough at this point so. And I do agree I know with a lot of this, the different some projects that I'm looking at, having that availability of funds through the cares or FEMA has really should be used as this springboard to take care of a lot of these these items. And I, I'm doing my best and throwing as much stuff as as possible at Sean or our CFO to see if, if I can get past be. We might be looking at these smaller efforts because there's there's always opportunities to make smaller efforts to make buildings more energy efficient, but having this this other pool. This is a great opportunity and I am doing what I can with some success. Glad to hear that. Thanks for sharing. Great, we haven't heard from Georgia from Lydia from Chris breast drop. Please feel free to raise your hand and share any thoughts you might have about this list. Our judges since you're off video feel free to just unmute and jump in. Lydia, yeah, did you want to go ahead. Sure. Thanks. Well, I'm going to jump on my soapbox and talk about a couple of things that are a little off slightly off tar off this list but I actually think that Amherst should declare a climate merge emergency. There have been a lot of cities around the world including New York City other major cities in the United States that have done this and I think that would help people understand that we may need to do things that we've never done before that we haven't even said we were going to do before. We've been through a time with COVID where the government, the town, the state and the federal government all doing making people do things for our own good. And I think that that that's going to need to happen around climate. That's my soapbox my other soapbox is that I think we should scrap the library project. In terms of expanding our library and those money should be available to retrofit to be loans for people who want to upgrade their apartments, as well as their homes that they own. I think that the mass save program. There's so much potential there for both for renters. That's not being tapped into there's there's things for buildings that have for apartments or or fewer. That can be tapped in there's there's a program for for buildings that have more than for apartments and that we could find out from mass save how many buildings in our town have been evaluated how many have been retrofitted and kind of set some goals for what percentage each year would be use those services and I also think that the town could set up a resource center for both homeowners and renters it may possibly be at the library where people could come in and find out what they're eligible for how to do things themselves. And in the places where they live. I think maybe the sum of the CPA money could be used to develop that center. For those folks who aren't familiar. I just wanted to add that CPA is Community Preservation Act. And maybe the CRA maybe CRA is that another one. Yeah, but that that you know prioritizing money where we spend money is going to be a difficult, certainly a difficult thing, but I think having no interest loans available for people having people ability to use their property increase their property taxes. By borrowing from the town to do renovations that will over time save them money could be a good plan. Yeah. All this while you know we're working on our municipal buildings, you know I think you know this list this is a great list and everything needs to happen I think renters a former social worker for many years and so I know that renters rights are really important but I also think that if we started doing things for mandated for rental housing, there would be fewer problems in in people renting. I don't know that's probably been three minutes I don't know if anybody's timing. Yeah, you're okay. Okay. Maybe we need to fundraise by making people have a sticker for their car that so everybody with a car would have to pay some more money besides the already pay. Maybe that would decrease the number of cars in town, maybe not but would generate some money maybe we need to tax on trash. Some other things that where we could generate money for for buildings. So that sort of systemic thinking about how to encourage the kinds of things that we do want and discourage the kinds of things that we don't want at the same time. And that's actually one of our task groups. So that I also wanted to pick up on a couple of things that you said there related to sort of the massive incentives and that's a state run program that our utility run program really that provides incentives for folks to upgrade their, their units, energy efficiency, sort of programmable thermostats different things like that. And one of the things that we've heard in many of the other groups is that sometimes the barrier to action in that sphere with the larger apartment complexes is really getting the owners and property managers forward, and, and working with those folks to, to get the buy in needed to actually take those steps. And so what I'm hearing you say is that rather that it can be coming from both sides, it can be tenant advocacy, and it can be mandated requirements that sort of work together to, to encourage the kinds of things that we're going for. I know that in Boulder, Colorado, it's mandated to use the state programs, the town, you know, somehow the city thinks that they can force people to do that, and, and, and are, and it's working. That's a really good precedent to point to. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I wanted to pick up on was you mentioned sort of this idea of property assessed upgrades like having a way of financing upgrades by adding them to property taxes and sort of in that way, taking out a loan from the town that you could repay over time. And that's certainly another sort of innovative funding mechanism that that several municipalities in Massachusetts have adopted and a precedent that could be pretty useful in Amherst. So, yeah, an important one to add to that list. I think you could make it so that it passes along with the mortgage. So, I mean, people, so people aren't afraid of doing it. That it would just be a part of the, the, the deed or what I don't know, you know, the next person would have to keep paying for the improvements on the property. Right. You know that there are poor people in town that own their homes to, you know, it's not just people renting their elderly people, their people who, you know, are living on the edge that actually own their homes also. Right. Yeah. Thanks, Lydia. Yeah, you're welcome. I see Christine has her hand raised and then we can go to Georgia. Hi, I'm Chris Brestrup, planning director and I use she her hers pronouns. So I, I really strongly hover around item number three and item number five. I think item number three is really important but helping people with rental housing I've been a renter in the past and I know how difficult it is if you have a unit that isn't well insulated and you have to pay a lot of money for heating. In the past, Amherst had a program where they helped people. I don't know if they helped renters but they helped homeowners to make improvements in their homes and I believe it was a federal government program where the town had money available and then they made loans to people to make improvements to their homes so that it's, it's possible that we could do something like that through the community development block grant program. But one thing that happens whenever you do something like that is that it's not only the money that you have to find and then, you know, figure out how to get it out to people but there's also costs to the town to support staff to work on these programs so we would have to get a commitment from the town not only to somehow find the money to do this but also to commit money from to support staff to do it. Excuse me I'm going to be coughing. I'm very aligned with our group agreements to take the care that you need to to be able to be fully here. So the other thing I wanted to do is support John Hornigan his promotion of item five which I think is very important for the town and we run into problems with this a lot. The town actually does a lot to promote affordable housing and we're always looking for ways to build affordable housing the town has been very instrumental in getting this project at 132 Northampton Road, off the ground and working with Valley CDC to help them get that approved by the by the ZBA. We run into some issues with people in town who say well, you know what, how many affordable units do we need, you know, we really need to keep building affordable units even though we have over 10% affordable already. So if you having over 10% affordable housing units as a way of fending off developers who might come in and oppose what we call unfriendly 40 B's which are unfriendly projects that include affordable units but really often benefit the developers. So anyway, we're constantly struggling to figure out where to build affordable housing and how to partner with developers to do this. And having some goals I think would be a really good idea, because 10% well, you know, we're better than most communities in Massachusetts we actually got an award. A couple of years ago for our efforts with regard to building affordable housing but it's really not enough to meet our needs. So what goals should we have, and it's really unclear to us in the planning department. It's clear to people in the housing trust or if they have an idea of what our goals should be, but working on that idea and then talking about how much town resources are we going to put towards making this goal a reality. And, you know, if we're really serious about creating affordable housing you have to, we have to put some money towards it the town is actually pretty good at doing that they did put. I think $750,000 into the development of the 132 Northampton road project they also put two man $2 million in tax incentive for the beacon project in North Amherst over a 10 year period but there's there's probably a lot more that we could do but I think working on, you know, what kind of a goal should we have for providing affordable housing for people who live here. So that's that's all I have to say right now. I really, really appreciate that that perspective, and I would even maybe add to that, sort of going back to what Georgia was speaking to earlier that in the process of developing those goals, bringing and sort of to our homework responses earlier that I know you weren't at the people last meeting but that you heard some of our group members reflections on is the idea of making sure that renters are included in the process of setting those goals. And, and Brown and black folks in the community are included in setting those goals to make sure that the needs are communicated clearly and the goals that are set do reflect those needs. So I really appreciate the, the sort of clear framing of how those goals could be used to further develop more affordable housing in Amherst. So I wanted to check in with Georgia. I think you're the only one we haven't heard from yet. And if you want to jump in and add your thoughts, please feel free. I would just, I think it's a great list. I really think it's. It covers quite a bit. I mean my idea would just probably be to arrange the order right. I mean I believe in number four for example for me should be number one. When people become this idea of a creation of attendance association, you know, teaching people, you know, having them learn what some of their rights are, you know, what this committee is about or what, you know, is being advocated, but really empowering them with the information. So like for me it's really just how it's arranged and number two would be probably the legislation part, because I mean Amherst is right, right, there's also investors. And I mean they're not going to be committed to, because it means money, you know, to doing some of the things here, right. Looking at energy efficiency renovations and all that stuff. It's like people sometimes have to be, you know, legislation as policies have to drive those changes. So for me like number, like I said, for would be number one to his number two number five for me would be number three. It's like, you know, then that's a goal of the town. Number four, number three would become number four and number one with number five, because I think, you know, at the end of the day, it's about the bottom line. And, you know, people are not going to take very kindly. You know, they're going to look at their taxes, you know, going up or you know people are not going to want to invest more money in these things which in the long run are going to be beneficial. So I think the renters, I like the idea of a rented association and advocacy, you know, group coming out of that organically, and then, you know, driving legislation that makes that requirement. I mean the reality is the investors are that are coming to Amherst. A lot of them aren't even from this area. They're from other states. I mean, I think that new building that it's not in Amherst, it's in Sunderland that has 100 on whatever units, those guys are out of Texas. I mean, if they're coming into Amherst and maybe they should be the one, you know, there should be a requirement that if they're going to be billed, you know, what are kind of the buildings that they have to build or maybe they're required to put money. You know, I'm not sure some tax, whatever it is, right, but I just feel that, you know, someone mentioned about the library again, it's about, you know, the power structure right. I mean the renters don't really have the voice their voices are not amplified. So it's where the power lies and I mean, you know, having the library and the resources is important for the certain population in Amherst. So again, who is driving the conversation, who is driving the decisions behind what the budget looks like. It's the people that have the power. You know, they're the ones that's really ultimately deciding, you know, where the money is going to be spent. So, yeah. So it sounds like Georgia you're saying that there's just there's a need to redistribute some of that power into the hands of folks who are being most impacted and the least heard. Absolutely. And just, you know, people don't know, you know, there's just a lot of information and people really they have no idea what their rights are. You know, they're moving into some of these buildings with young children and they're basically signing that there's a possibility that there might be letting the building. But for them it's just really and truly having need in a roof over their head so they don't have a choice to say you know what I don't want to live here. I don't want to live somewhere else to live. You know, that I know that my child is safe. I have a five year old and I don't know if I want to expose him to the possibility of lead because this building is 100 years old or whatever. It is so people are very limited in their options. And you know it's about taking care of their immediate needs. They don't have the resources they don't have access to some of the resources, and they just have to do what they have to do in order to basically stay safe have a roof over their head provide housing for their families. So it's really to take some of that power back and, you know, um, yeah. It's a lot of resilience to climate change. How can you, how can you think about climate change when, you know, your first concern is, is having a roof over your head. Exactly. These things are really, really related. Thanks a lot, Georgia. I have another guest from the MVP program Andrew that was going to share. Yeah, hello. Hi. Hi Andrew. Welcome. Visible. Yeah, so everything sounds okay. Is it, is it working out. I'm audible on everything. I just want to confirm that. Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah. So much. So what are some of the things that might be worth considering you don't have to is long term considerations when it comes to the fact that you're used to dealing with high population turnover on an annual basis under normal times. And what would it mean in a climate migration situation, right? Fast forward 10, 20, 30 years. And a lot of people's real estate values are plummeting in coastal areas, not to be like super depressing, but it's kind of part of the reality that we're faced with. Like, what does it, what does it mean for a town to have plans for people to live there and then all of a sudden people come. Are you going to be welcoming? Are you going to be welcoming to some people? Are you welcoming to everybody? I mean, obviously the goal is to be welcome to everybody. And I'm just wondering like what policies can be included now in anticipation of migration trends. And that's more of a thought rather than a comment. And you can take it early. Thanks Andrew. Any thoughts you wanted to share or was that the main one? No, that's it. You know, it's just a lot of, you know, the built environment will be, I mean, I have my own ideas about how to accommodate that, but I think it's just, it's not my real place to say what would work for Amherst. But it's just an interesting thing to consider. And I think, I think the goal would be to one of the, one of the, one of the things I frequently hear from MVP workshops and areas that have, that are land rich and not to include Amherst in this category, because it's a developed community, but sometimes people will get to the point of thinking about migration and their first thought is, well, we don't want that to happen and how can we stop it. And I just think maybe community like Amherst would have a more progressive thought process around that. And maybe get example, especially in this, in this adaptation planning process to have some consideration to that. Yeah, you actually point to a few of the sort of values that we've pulled out from the very beginning of this process around empathy and compassion for our fellow residents and fellow townspeople. And yeah, I really appreciate you planting that seed. That's certainly not a topic that we've delved into in any depth yet in this group, but I think something for folks to sort of cogitate on and continue to integrate into their thinking about these strategies. So really appreciate that. Thanks, Andrew. So it's just about time for us to move on to the next part of our meeting. We're going to be wrapping up around eight. John I see you have a hand up to Yeah, I wanted to comment on some of the things other people have said. Fundamentally, all of these things require money. Almost accept number four, which requires relatively small amount of money that could be 100% town money. Everything else the town will put in money, but it's going to be relatively small. For example, if you take affordable housing, the town puts in maybe 10% of the cost of an affordable housing development. The rest of it comes through mechanisms designed and created by the State Department of Housing and Community Development. Finally, Lydia was talking about the mass save programs, which would come under number three. There are probably other things that the state supports. There certainly have been in the past. And I think Jeremiah mentioned the use of cares money that might come there. I think we need to be able to leverage those kinds of funds to do that, and certainly to do number one. And I think to is really a question of advocacy for resources for money to be able to do the remaining things that we have on the list. It might help if the consultants could under each of these one, two, three, four and five list where money is going to be found to be able to finance these things so that we can advocate for that money or advocate for more money, because that's going to be critical to all of them, as I said, except for there's probably no outside funding for that unless we went to like a foundation. Other than that, the town has to put up the money. Thank you, John. Yeah, absolutely. I think funding is a critical theme that has come up throughout this conversation and something that us as consultants along with the Climate Action Committee have been thinking about in terms of how we can build in that kind of thinking into the implementation for the plan. So definitely something that's on our radar and something that I hope that this group will continue to push and and support. And I just wanted to check. Chris, did you have your hand up or was that from before. No, I just wanted to say in line with what john was just saying that the town has a limited budget. And especially now because of COVID-19, our budget has been strained and we understand that next year may be even more strained. So they're going to have to be trade offs. And I think, you know, Lydia was getting at one of those trade offs. Not saying I would necessarily agree with what Lydia said but she's right on the fact that you can't have everything, you know, if you want to have new buildings then maybe you're not going to be able to put as much money into the things that are on this list here so we have to get serious about setting our priorities and deciding where do we want to spend our money because there's a limited amount. So that's all I really wanted to say. Thank you. Yeah, I think that's really important. And that's also true for climate change. And so prioritization is is sort of an integral part of this process as a result of that recognition. And so very much appreciate that comment. I am going to move us on to the next part of our conversation I know you have your hand raised Chris but hopefully you'll be able to share that thought in the next section. And so I'm going to stop sharing my screen so we can all see each other for this next part. So, for the next sort of half hour of our meeting, we wanted to do a bit of reflecting about this process overall. I heard from many of you and many other participants in the other task groups that this process has felt a little different from other municipal planning processes, and we want to hear from you all about what that has meant. So, here are the questions, we're going to do the same thing as this last round where we'll give everyone three minutes. Five minutes behind schedule I will keep everyone to that three minutes. So, did you think that this was a worthwhile process. If yes, what made it worthwhile what made it special. If no, what, what made it not work, and what could make it better in the future. So I'll give everyone a second to think on that, sort of think about the last two and a half meetings and the conversations we've been having and what that's meant. And we'll do the same thing as last time so whenever folks feel ready, feel free to raise your hand or if you're off video to unmute yourself. Yeah, Chris, go ahead. And then we'll go to Jeremiah. I will confess that I came into the process with a technical orientation on climate change. I'm interested in finding a way to actually get to negative greenhouse gas emissions in 2050. And there's a lot, there is an abundant supply of technical ways to attack that problem, non people ways of attacking that problem. Being part of this group has raised my consciousness there. You know, you've got to. Yes, it is not just a technical problem with the people problem. And it's both. And I don't want to minimize the importance and the challenges of the, of how do we actually, if we didn't have any people involved if we just had to get these buildings. Everything, everything up to where we have negative greenhouse gas emissions in 2050. That's a pretty amazing challenge all by itself. But it's important that we, we realize who why we're doing this and who we're doing it for. So in that sense, so I've had, I'm going to thank group for sort of helping me move forward on that consciousness is probably one reason why I chose three rather than one doesn't make any difference as far as the climate's concerned if we, if we can make make commercial buildings be more efficient and use less energy that's as far as climate's concerned. That's fine or we can do that we could make residential multi family housing more efficient as the same effect. Oh, so obviously the answer is well, mostly family housing, but we should be concentrating on. The idea that I think what we, I would like us to try to say I would like to just because it's so hard to get people to concentrate on glorious things like fixing up apartment building. They're there and they already have the finishes in them and they already have people in them. It's hard to. That's a, it's an, it's an glorious project in contrast to a shiny new building. Say for instance. So and I think it's a matter and the dimensions of that problem are so huge that and nobody is really willing to face up to that. Anyway, I want to work on say on on private sector privately owned multi family partner projects and figure out a way to impact those. I have an idea that if we could find ourselves a private sector developer in the in Amherst was willing to do a little bit of spend a little bit of money and to take a small chunk was a one building at one of the complexes. We renovate that building, do a proper energy retrofit and put in the heat pumps and do all the things we want to do in the hot water here. And then figure out reading what that costs. And what is it, and how much of an advantage that developer will have in this so that you can finding tenants in that newly renovated place it might be good to show up. So that's a study of a, of a project that's viable right here in town, that we could have start getting the developers to talk to the developers realizing there is a value there, especially if we can find some kind of subsidy somehow. That's an idea. Chris. Yeah, thank you so much. I really just want to acknowledge something you said early on there about the, you know, the magnitude of the technical challenge but also the technical challenge sort of being moved if we, if we don't keep in mind who we're doing it for and and why we're doing it. It's a really wonderful reflection. Thank you. So, I think we said, we were going to go to Jeremiah next. Yes, thank you. I probably be relatively brief. This unfortunately I, this is my, my first meeting that I've been able to attend. But I have. Right, we're glad to have you. Yeah, I have been keeping up and looking at the material. I do like to, I do appreciate what you said, Chris early on and, and coming from a sort of a mechanical background, an empty building with all its systems running has no complaints. When we bring in a human element is when we start running into a lot of challenges. Setting that aside though I think that anything that we can do, it's a series of a lot of small efforts. And I think for people to understand that these efforts are ongoing. Even if you were to look at some of these new developers building brand new buildings state of the art with all the best stuff fast forward five years and I need to do something else. And that's just the reality of it. So I think that it's so important to keep this conversational live that it needs to continue on. And because of that reason, even if you have this, this goal that is 10 or 20 years out. It can't stop there when you get there you have to push forward again, because just just like any age building you can replace something as soon as you replace something. And I'm sure it's degrading it's it's getting less efficient so you have to do it again and then again and then again. It's a never ending process. So it really does. I think I guess the machine that needs to change is us. We're the ones that need to change it's our behaviors. And if we change our behaviors then all of the technical and mechanical stuff will change with us. And I just wanted to say that it's, it's this conversation is so important and needs to continue. Thanks for that Jeremiah. I think what you were saying also reminded me of a, another conversation with another task group member around this idea that we recognize what Chris was saying about sort of the massive investment required. Think of it as an investment in our future and and building better buildings means that those investments carry us further and and serve us better in the meantime. And so, sort of shifting from this mindset of, this is a huge cost to this is a huge investment. I think is part of changing that the behavior that you're talking about. So, thank you. Want to let anyone jump in. Sarah and Stephanie as well please feel free. I know you've both, you've both been part of all of these meetings I'm sure you have lots of reflections on the process. Well I'll jump in. Yeah. Since nobody else is. Honestly, I was not sure where this was going. I felt like the earlier meetings were drifting. You know there's a lot of different things discussed, but I like the fact that you pulled together those discussions with these key ideas and major actions. I think that's a really good step. And now we can take some more steps. We can't take this to people without being able to talk about how we're going to pay for it. And I know I mentioned that before, but I think that's a really important next step for us with each of these key ideas or major actions. We need to have a path to be able to finance it. And as Chris said earlier it can't all rely on town money. The money just isn't there. We need to figure out how to best leverage down money by using other resources. The other thing I want to go back to which I think is as important as finding a way to finance all of this is what Chris said, and that is we have a people problem. I don't know exactly what Chris meant by that but I'll tell you what I think about that. People for various reasons are going to be resistant to these ideas. And that means we have to explain them and advocate for them. And again, it's like financing. If we don't have a path for doing that. It doesn't matter how good these ideas or whether we can find money to pay for them. People aren't going to accept them, unless we understand where the areas of resistance are, and we're prepared to address those issues. We need to act people in a sense, in order to change their minds and get them on board, and make them understand that as Liz has said we're, we're in an emergency. And if we don't act now, we're going to be in trouble in five years or certainly 10 years or 20 years. Yeah, I really like what you said about there's a need to address that resistance with explaining and advocating and I would add to that as well. And again, along again, Georgia's, the lines of Georgia's comment earlier, empowering more people to get into the conversation and to keep it going and and to be advocates and and and do that explaining have that the knowledge and the information needed to to build the movement. So really appreciate that too. Lydia Christine Georgia Andrew Stephanie. Go ahead Stephanie. Sure. So, I guess for me and sort of thinking about this process and it's funny, I, I think I heard Chris's comment about it being a people problem in a little bit of a different way I was hearing it more as we're so focused on the technical but we forget about the people that are impacted by the technology and their, the costs of the technology and how some people, there are barriers for people that we don't often see when we're looking at just the technology technological piece. And I think that's in part for me why wanting to do this whole process in a different way was so important, because it was important to bring people's voices to looking at this work and not just focus on just the mechanics of it. And the technical aspects of it, but the ways in which there just has to be a cultural shift, you know, we just have to sort of have an intense extreme sort of cultural shift in our thinking about other people. And that when we think about some of these comforts, you know, when I think about people's homes and their comforts and, you know, the prior trying to make priorities, where do we, where do we actually benefit the most. The most people within the community versus the one. One, maybe particular building renovation I guess to the point of the library and I'm not saying that I am advocating that we don't do the library work, because I think there's a lot of benefit to having a public library for people. But at the same time, you know, maybe these other buildings where we're sort of looking at these sort of comfort things but, you know, could that money be used in a different way for, you know, for the housing complexes or housing complex that benefits more people, you know, And maybe that doesn't bring emissions down as much as the other, like, so I guess it's just for me it's a trade off it's like not just about the emissions but also about the people to That's so that's just kind of that all of those thoughts that are going around in my head. Those reflections Stephanie. Definitely. Yeah, lots to wrestle with. Yeah, Christine. So one thing I've been thinking about and I don't know how to resolve this is the fact that a lot of the new buildings that are built in town are really highly energy efficient. In fact, people who live there. Well, they don't pay for their utilities, except maybe cable and telephone. They don't have to pay for their heat and hot water because it's paid for by the landlords but the landlords are building those buildings so in such a fashion that the landlords aren't really suffering as a result of paying for the heat and hot water for their tenants. And yet, you know, those buildings are really expensive to live in. So how can you combine, you know, the comfort level and energy efficiency and all of that with a building that you know is that can house people who don't make a lot of money who don't have a lot of money to spend on housing so I think that's that's a huge and actually the 132 North Hampton Road project is doing a really good job with that. They're highly energy efficient they have figured out a way of making that building really tight and really. It's not going to be difficult to heated and to have hot water for the tenants there. So, I guess the techniques are evolving, and I hope that it's built in the future follows that same pattern. It's hard to go back and try to retrofit the older buildings. And so I don't know what to say about that except to look to Chris Riddle to try to solve that puzzle but wanted to say that with enough money, you can make a building really energy efficient. Yeah, it's a good important thing to acknowledge for sure. And, and to sort of think about how that prioritization works to Stephanie's point and. Yeah, I'll leave it there. I can share. Yeah, please Sarah. So Jesse lost internet, and I had a reflection he wanted to share. And his was the same as mine and that it was that less about the content but just the spirit of the honesty and transparency of the conversation that people have showed up with. And they didn't want to do this on zoom so I've been pleasantly surprised at the richness of the conversation, and we're both just deeply grateful to everyone that showed up over the course of the last few months. Thanks Sarah and thanks for relaying that message from Jesse as well we were wondering where he had gone and I'm sorry to hear he lost internet but glad that he's still with us in the spirit. Awesome. Awesome awesome. So I think we have not heard from Georgia and Lydia. Georgia you want to go next. Um, I mean I really don't have much to say I just think it's, it's a great initiative. But of course, you know we know that money will always be hurdle. And again I just really always encourage having different voices at the table, just getting different perspectives because sometimes you just never know. People can be really creative and find options that you would never imagine and I'm really, I always go back to this Ted talk by Melody Hobson, where she says that you know they could not find a cure for the smallpox. And the cure came from a most unlikely source it came from a dairy farmer, who noticed that the milkmaids were not getting the smallpox. And that's and that the cure to that came from is a bovine based. So I just you know I'm saying it's like all these scientists couldn't figure it out but this dairy farmer noticed. Yeah. So justice, you know that's just to say that I'm going to just have different perspective does have different lens, because I think you know just having those conversations just having that transparency that inclusivity is important in just really getting people's perspectives, because sometimes you'd be surprised at what it, it brings and it uncovers. Totally Georgia I really resonate with that I was having a conversation with another task group member earlier today and she said something very similar along those lines of sort of sometimes the assumptions that you make about how people might prioritize different things, or the solutions that they might come up with are not right. And sometimes you have to have those conversations to find out, and what you find out might surprise you. And so, just to echo Sarah, you know, having everyone here and willing to spend their time with us on a late on a Thursday or you know we've had meetings at all kinds of times so far in this process is just, it's been a real honor. So, thank you. Lydia. Yeah. Well. Yeah, I would say I was extremely frustrated at the first meeting that there were no introductions. There was no way to talk about how relation, this is about relationships and relationships are important and put those first but there was no way to even I think on zoom you can develop relationships so I would encourage the consultants to think about that for the next time they do this with the town or, or whatever. But I, you know, I think, over town, over time we've gotten to see each other a little bit and, and hear a little bit about what people do in their lives or why they came to this, this committee, but anyway, and Lauren I think you're doing a great job of kind of summarizing and pulling things together this, this time. I think that what I've gotten out of this is the real need for tenant organizing, and that that needs that separate from the tasks that the EC AC has of writing policy for the town and a plan that covers all these areas of, you know, transportation and everything but I think that I hope that these messages can be brought to whoever's going to decide how to use that $80,000 to the town council. And I think that some of the groups that have the advocacy groups to see, you know, kind of what the next step is in terms of tenant organizing in town. And yeah, I was shocked that there were only three meetings. And that we were going to come up with something and, you know, in six hours of work together. Trust that the, you know, the climate committee is going to be able to take, take whatever we've brought to them and make something happen out of it. I really, I do appreciate more community input from low income and people of color. I hope that we can figure out how to get people appointed to committees and of the of the town that are more representative of the town. I also want to do a little commercial for something that happened last weekend, because we were doing the acknowledgement of the land that we live on. There was a very wonderful several hour presentation. Locally about the history of Native Americans on this part of the country, and it's a YouTube video now called 400, 400 years truth and healing for the next seven generations or something like that. Excellent. Native led presentation, you know, you can just watch it on YouTube. Anyway, thank you for sharing that Lydia that's really great. Lauren, I just wanted to say that I totally what Lydia said I was actually going to say that is, you know, I'm just one person right. And I'm not speaking for an entire community and really and truly it's so so important to get different voices that more people involved in really finding out you know, I mean people doing their best to come up with this like list you know but you know yes and it's intended. That's the idea behind it is that what they want what's the priority to them is it to upgrade their apartments that they're living in now versus building, you know so just really try figuring out a way to incorporate the voices of the people who the decisions are being made for. You know I think it's important. There's definitely been a resounding theme throughout this process and thank you for echoing it Georgia. And I also just wanted to acknowledge Lydia's comment around a desire for introductions and I really appreciate that feedback and I also really appreciate sort of the feeling behind it of a desire for that relationship building. And it is that in spite of that lack of an initial introduction. There is still a sense that folks have have gotten to know each other a bit and that this conversation will continue. Especially, as you mentioned around the tenant organizing because that's another theme that's come up throughout the task groups and different settings, not just with buildings and is something that there seems to be a lot of energy behind. So, just when we follow up with the notes from this meeting we're also planning to share notes from the other meetings so that folks can get a sense of what the conversations have been in some of the other groups and and look for those connections and look for those shared interests or shared passions and and find find pathways to building those relationships even further. So, really appreciate that comment. I have a question. Sure john yeah. Lydia's comment letting me believe that this is our last meeting, which I didn't realize. It is for now. Yes. I was just about to launch into a little spiel about our next steps. And I'm happy to speak to that, but did you have more to that question. Well, there's more we can do more we should talk about my point of view. Basically, I'm not objecting to the key ideas of major actions, but I think there's more that needs to be included in that. And as far as I'm concerned, we're not done. So I'm a little surprised. That's it. John you and I can keep working on these things together. Exactly. I was just gonna say, I think Lauren just froze. So, I was just going to say that I think, you know, we sort of had to have a finite set of meetings because we only have so much grant funding for having linear and facilitate. So wonderfully as they have so far. And it's not that the process completely ends here or that there aren't other opportunities to, to add more feedback because what they're tasked with is to create a draft climate action adaptation and resiliency plan. Working with the ECAC and taking all of the feedback from all of the meetings and so there'll be an opportunity to come back together. To sort of look at that draft plan but I do think your points John have been really important in this process and that they have raised a lot of issues that you know people are hearing that might not have otherwise had as much as much focus on. And I think, you know, there's been a lot that's come from the conversation and I think, you know, like you said, there's, there's so much more to talk about. And I think that's probably true for all of the task groups, quite honestly, you know, all of these things that we're talking about, you know, transportation land use. You know renewable energy and energy use there's so much more. So, and I think, I think part of this is also an opportunity to, and I know we haven't had a lot of time but you know Chris is here Jeremiah is here I'm here. You know people that work in town hall, you have members of the ECAC, you know, we, we want to have more dialogue we want to have more interaction we want more community involvement engagement so we welcome that. I noticed that Lauren has just come back in which is great, and she can wrap up this process. This is Jim Newman. I work for the solutions I use he him, his pronouns. I haven't really said anything tonight. I just wanted to say one quick thing, which is that while this meeting process has been pretty focused we had three meetings. Those three meetings have been highly productive probably way more productive than everybody expected. And this is not the end of a process. Lauren will describe sort of the steps we take, but the material will come back to everybody and have an opportunity to get to add depth to add information to have thought as we move forward through actually crafting this into a plan for the town. Lauren, why don't you jump back in. Thanks Jim and apologies to all for my crappy internet connection. I'm going to stay off video for this piece just lest I be kicked off again. But just wanted to speak a little bit to the next steps in the process. So, after this third round of task group meetings concludes which this is actually our last meeting of this third round. We will be working on developing a comprehensive list of strategies based on these discussions, as well as research and conversations with the energy and climate action committee with town staff and with other stakeholders who have not been able to be involved in this process yet, but are important to include. And the reason is to connect back with this group of community leaders and their friends and families in ways that really work for you to gather your feedback and figure out how to make the strategies that we've come up with work. The dog will really be ongoing over the next several months, even though we won't be meeting on a regular basis. So everyone here will continue to be engaged with the plan. So we'll be presenting a draft plan to the ECAC, the energy and climate action committee toward the end of February. And that will be at a public ECAC meeting that we can let everyone know about. So that's another opportunity to jump in with the draft plan, and then the ECAC will provide feedback will present a draft plan to the town in the spring. And that will be another bigger public meeting and an opportunity for again for folks to participate in shaping the plans content before it's finalized. In the meantime, we, we and I say we to include myself, Jim, Sarah and Jesse, Stephanie and Gazette Haya even though they weren't able to be here tonight. We would all love to hear from you. If you have any thoughts, any lingering questions, any ideas, any case studies examples of things that you've seen in other communities that have worked really well, anything and everything. Please don't hesitate to reach out. We will be following up on this meeting with notes and as I mentioned earlier notes from the other groups as well so that if you want to dig deeper into what's been going on in some of the other group discussions and find those connections that becomes more possible. And, yeah, just want to thank you all for spending this time with us for devoting the energy and for being present to these conversations. It's, it's been really just rich and rewarding I think for for the organ and we really appreciate your time and your passion for your community. Yeah, thanks so much, and it's 759 so we did it. I hope you all have a wonderful day. I want to thank everyone but I also want to point out. Sorry, Lauren, I just wanted to point out that if people are really interested to you can watch the videos from the other tasks groups. At the beginning of this meeting I mentioned that they're available on YouTube. So if you enter ECAC and task groups, probably without you know land user buildings all of them will come up. So, if you're so inclined you're welcome to watch, you know, the process for the other groups as well. Thanks Stephanie that's a very good note. Great question. You said that you would produce a plan in February and then what was the final plan were you saying climate action plan. And then adaptation and resiliency plan, and that'll be a draft in February so very much not final. And then the, the idea is to present a final plan to the town council in the spring. The specific date has yet to be determined but it'll likely be sometime in late April. Great question is to what degree will that plan incorporate implementation measures steps from how to fund that kind of the difficult questions associated with. Once you establish a goal it's easy. Yeah, I find to be definitely. And that's definitely something will be incorporating into the plan. And specifically around the funding piece that has been resident throughout this meeting. But the idea is for the plan to really focus on actions that can be taken in the next five years or so. And then to also sort of establish some longer term visions that we can work towards, but to really be very targeted action oriented for the next sort of short term period of time. And to focus on things that are implementable within that time frame. Sarah or Stephanie did you want to add anything to that. I just wanted to jump in and say that part of that identifying those projects is knowing what we need to do is part of how we identify the funding. You know how we find the funding when those opportunities for funding come up, and we have specific items identified then it makes it possible for us to apply for funds. If we've got something already sort of identified as part of a comprehensive plan. And assuming we'll have some steps and strategies incorporated in that plan as well. So I just so you're saying that this is going to present it to the town council when in the spring time, probably around the end of April or early May. Because the reality is this is not a priority to the town council, you know, I'm just being honest. And this is when advocacy comes up. And when people need to speak up right how we mobilize those grassroots initiatives for people to show up at those meetings for people to write to the town council to let them know. You know what their thoughts and thoughts are on, you know, what's being discussed here, the proposal, the initiatives, the vision, because I'm not sure if the town council is in a place right because again it comes on to money. You know, to really understand the voices of the people who are the most affected. Yeah. So it sounds like Georgia. Folks have that information about what's going on. I agree with Georgia. When it came to 132 North Hampton Road, there was a town council hearing, and we had dozens of people writing to be town council and speaking at that public hearing. And 132 North Hampton Road has been before the town zoning board of appeals. And again, we've had people write in to speak at their meetings. And that has a tremendous effect. That's what we need to do. Yeah, you have to mobilize those people their voices have to be heard. And they have to weigh in. I'm just a representative who doesn't really have much. I'm just saying I'm just telling you as a person of color, what I feel, but there's so many other people in this town representative of so many races and perspectives and, you know, so they have to really before it goes before or when it goes or that you know John just said, you know, the community have to somehow be mobilized to participate in the decision that the town council is going to be waning on which, like I said quite frankly they're not really equipped to do because they lack the lens to really make decisions that impact the BIPOC community. Yeah. Yeah, that's a super important consideration Georgia, and sounds like something that this, this process can play a role in that mobilization. And hopefully all of you as well. Any other last thoughts before we sign off. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Every single one of you thank you so much. It wouldn't be productive without you all here. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you Stephanie for all the hard work you do. Oh, thanks. It's a big job. Well, there was a lot of other people doing a lot on this. And I think it's a great team, especially Jim and Guzikaya and Lauren. So thank you. Thank you all so much. All right. Have a great evening. Have a great evening. Thank you for hanging in there and speaking. Really appreciate it. You're welcome. Absolutely. All right, take care of everyone. And Georgia, I'm always welcoming, you know, anything you ever time you want to vent or anything. Feel free. And I'm always willing to listen. All right, thanks. All right, take care. Bye bye.