 All right, check this out the best tool generally speaking for resistance training or strength training is free weights Generally speaking again. It's better than machines. It's better than bands better than cables better than body weight All right guys, let's talk about this. How's that comedian say it? Here's your sign. Here's your sign over that one Yeah, blue blue collar comedy guys. I know that that's yeah, you don't know that one Yeah, that's when you like when you say something like obvious. I think that's pretty obvious. It's you know It's not it's controversial. It's really in our space. I've seen people debate this before I think we should talk about why Machine people yeah typically yeah cable machine people and it by the way I said generally because definitely there are situations in cases where Machines and cables are superior But overall when you're looking at and when you have to consider the overall right the whole picture function Performance strength muscle building versatility versatility Free weights are just they're remarkably effective and even it's even when you compare them towards machines that are almost identical in terms of the movement pattern like a hack squat is Similar to a barbell squat, but a barbell squat is just so much more effective at all those other things that I well And do you think that is mainly because of just the instability that it causes because when you're doing dumbbells or free barbell Like you have to balance the weight versus something being on a track. Yeah, you know I would say so, but you know what the problem with that is is that? You know when I was training people in the early 2000s or you guys were to the instability You know crowd went crazy, right? It was like standing on wobble discs and physicals and dyna discs and So there's definitely a diminishing returns with that kind of stuff And we haven't really been able to identify specifically why this anecdote is so common like if you talk to top coaches trainers If you if you like just took a survey of a hundred of really really good coaches and trainers a Majority of them would would agree now some of them would disagree But a majority would agree Studies can show that there's evidence to kind of support what we're talking about like a barbell squat tends to translate more on The field than like a leg press for example Muscle building. I don't know if there's really any studies that show what we're talking about But there's a lot of anecdote and it's hard to explain why my theory is that Obviously our bodies evolved in the real world in nature. And so our bodies evolved lifting Free things, you know, so I think it mimics or at least it it sets in motion adaptation processes That evolved lifting things that were more similar to free weights than to machines and so my theory is that it's It's a lot more difficult. So the the learning curve is longer So the the gains and or potential gains that you could get from it just our extent So I think if we were to graph this and let's say you had like a free motion machine or let's just or whatever your hammer strength Favorite machine for like chest, right and then you had like a dumbbell present I think at the beginning they would look pretty close and then I think that you would get adapted to the machine Relatively quicker and then you would see kind of this plateau where the free weights would kind of continue There's less range of motion to consider in terms of having to stabilize and control, right? And so I I honestly look at it as a if we're looking at like a signal perspective of how many Muscles we need to incorporate for different tasks in each movement each exercise So in terms of like me doing say an overhead press on a track Like I can I can extend and press This weight overhead, but at the same time it's not putting as much demand laterally rotationally and also Stabilizing completely on the way down as well, which is the eccentric portion I think there's more demand too with the free weights with gravitational force Yeah, I'm so okay So I'm gonna get to that because I love what you said and I got some thoughts around that But here's something that a lot of people don't realize that's obvious I remember learning this when I went to go buy an open my own gym And I you talked to machine manufacturers and you know hammer strength and all that stuff and Nautilus and all these you know Cybex Most machines are designed around some a male who's about five ten five nine five ten Then they have adjustable seats and arms to kind of accommodate people outside of that But what happens when you work out with a machine is that you have to? Follow the machine's path and track and range of motion essentially free weights follow your body So if I'm doing an overhead press with someone who's with a kid who's you know four foot ten or a man That's you know six foot eight the free weights will follow them They're not following the machine and how many times have you guys had a client that was outside of the average you go in a machine And it just doesn't work very well for their body, right? So there's that and then what you said Justin Here's what's interesting about the central nervous system because that's what right That's what sends the signal for the muscles to work, right? We've used the amplifier versus recruitment process Yeah, when you activate the central nervous system When you activate more of it then it fires harder and more effectively in specific ways So for example, if I want to press one dumbbell overhead But maintain a relaxed body I'm only going to be able to press so much weight if I tense up my entire body I can use typically I can lift 10% or more Power lifters know this when power lifters bench press they talk about using leg drive like what the hell do legs have to do with The bench press you're just putting your legs on the ground not lifting the bar But they notice a long time ago when that when they activate their lower body they could press more weight and Freeweights tends to encourage that because of that product if I'm doing a standing overhead press I have to tense my whole body right just to support myself and balance And so I'm able to probably fire more muscle fibers as a result like you could probably intensify your machine workouts by intentionally bracing really hard and trying to add more You know muscle tension to contribute however, yeah free weights are just more They just place that demand naturally on your body in order to be able to even maintain the certain posture and control of your body Yeah, and I again I say generally because I know there's gonna be cases where someone's like I got better results using a machine Or you know this leg exercise But one example of when that would happen is when someone's when someone's form and technique is so bad on an exercise then Having a machine where you it helps you with that could accelerate their there and you can Right, right. So there there are cases where that will make sense But I again I go I go back to I think where the real benefits kick in it's the learning curve I think it's that if you were to look head-to-head with the point you guys are making with the machine and free weights I think it would be like a little bit better at first If you zero zero no one you've never done anything you're just starting someone they're brand new yeah And they but one's doing machine exercise the other one's doing freeway Let's compare a hack squat to a barbell squat, right, right? So and I think at initially the the gains and results Would be pretty close. I still think free weights would be a little bit better, but it would be pretty close I think it's where it really kicks in is over time Yeah, because if you put it if you put a new client on a hack squat machine in a Relatively short period of time in comparison to the barbell squat. They'll be able to push with maximal force. Yeah with a barbell squat They can take a while to year. Yeah They could be doing that movement for years before they can even really truly max maximize it because it it's so challenging Yeah, that doesn't mean you're not getting results the whole time, right? But yeah, I agree with you 100% I mean of all the people that I trained I never saw well I don't want to say never of course there's always exceptions But again generally speaking nothing came close and I didn't care what exercise it was You know, even if it was a cable curl versus a dumbbell curl as silly as it sounds very simple basic exercise Yeah, by the way, this I had a as a kid. This is my own anecdote. I Was I had a dislocated my knee as a kid and long story short I finally decided I'm just gonna go work out so I can rehab it and and then I was training my legs really hard I was doing the leg press the hack squat the leg extension leg curl I was doing different varieties of leg presses and hack squats in the Smith machine and I developed my legs built They definitely built and I was pushing weight and I was pretty strong or I was 16 year old kid pretty strong Then I met those power lifters and they're like dude just barbell squat and I swear to God I barbell squatted and I gained 10 pounds that summer and I'd never seen my lower body respond the way it did With all those other exercise that was my own personal experience well, it's interesting because I I remember talking to one of my clients who was always focused on Smith machine bench press and Just Was like discussing like what's the difference? Why because they they tried like a regular barbell Bench press and could only do half the weight and they were just like mystified by that And I was a new trainer and I had a hard time kind of describing all that But like just all those little nuanced variables of you know The ability for the barbell to kind of travel away from you behind you tilt You know all these types of you know things that don't seem like a lot But when you add weight to it and you keep stacking that that's a lot more for your body to account for by way If you ever see me and I rarely ever work out in commercial gyms. Usually it's a hotel gym if I'm traveling I will use lots of machines and cables mainly because I never do so I work out I'd say probably 90% of my workouts revolve around free weights So the novelty effect is great with machines and cables So if you see me in a commercial gym Well, you'll probably see me doing or a lot of things that I don't normally do and there's value there There's also value in certain cases of rehab There's certain exercises that just don't work well with free weights like if I'm do a cable chop obviously I can't gravity doesn't work sideways, you know tricep press down. There's certain exercises that are More suited for you know cables and machines cables by the way are my favorite machine They're the most versatile form of machine what I said earlier about free weights mirroring the body and or the body having to come You know follow the track of the machine. Yeah moves with you at least with cables, right? You can really adjust that for the individual. I mean when I had my wellness studio I had a I had a cage. So I had a squat rack. I had dumbbells I had bands and I had cables and that was it I didn't have a single machine in there and I trained everybody that way and it was great And I worked out that way and it's still to this day and if you see me working out That's pretty much what I'll what I'll be using now There are some studies that actually counter the point that we're trying to make right now And I'm you know people tend to jump on especially if you're a big machine or cable person And that's the you know There's these short periods where they they they track people for like six weeks and they're talking about muscle activation Yeah, so you'll make this case sometimes that oh Well hack squat fires the quads way more than the muscles are more active, right? Yeah with the the entire time, right? And so they'll take that on this and they'll study the two groups and compare and compare them and make the case that hey if you Want to develop your quads This machine is actually superior and so that's why I think there is a lot of debate around this conversation Even though I think initially we teased you in saying that this is obvious, but you're right There's some contention around it or some debate I think that's one of the reasons why there's debate is because you see these Muscle activation studies that show that these muscles are firing way more on this machine But that doesn't tell the whole story. No the the there's a huge limitation with studies on this like A real world like our experience is based off of training people for long periods of time So like you'll talk you'll hear us talk about the value of you know 15 to 20 rep range or the value of 1 to 5 rep range Well when they do studies on rep ranges For eight weeks, you know 8 to 10 or 8 to 12 builds more muscle than both of those rep ranges However, what they don't consider in their short period their short studies is over time your body tends to get used to a particular rep range And switching will get your body to move again and all of them build muscle So although one might be a little better in the short term all of them still build muscle They all have value and so i'm talking about I trained people for years. I know you guys did too. And so that's what this is based off This is not like I trained 15 people for three months and I found in three months that machines were as effective as free weights It's like no, I trained people for I had clients for me for 10 years And when you start training people for long, you know extended period times or you work out yourself for long extended periods of time That's when these things start to reveal themselves and you start to see oh, I can see now The value in this way of training because although this one was great for the first six months I started to develop some joint pain or I started to lose mobility or really stop working after a short period of time Whereas this other method, you know, give me these long term, you know benefits and then the We can't dismiss the functional aspect, right? How well does the strength that you build in the gym Translate into the real world. Yeah, we need that's very I think a lot of people who are just interested in changing how they look Dismiss that but I'm gonna tell you right now if your function is good The odds that you'll look good for longer periods of time are higher So you can't dismiss that now. You don't have to become the super functional Athlete but don't dismiss the functional aspect because losing function will eventually take away From the aesthetics that you're trying to build it'll definitely take away from your physique And I look I tell you what fine you can see this sometimes in gyms these old You know x bodybuilders that really never learned how to train that way and you can tell like they're so limited with their exercises I used to squat I used to and then I heard and I can't do anymore because it hurts my back and they're very limited and you could Tell that their their bodies start to suffer as a result of it So, you know, keep that in mind that includes mobility right keep that in mind because if that goes down Then your you know repertoire of effective exercise has become smaller and smaller and smaller What you could do to get your body to feel good and look good become smaller and smaller and smaller And then your appearance in your aesthetics start to suffer as a result this application of You know advice and training is so important. Um, and By the way, this is one of the reasons why one of the only certifications we work with is nci It's not because they they communicate the best nutrition information They do have great nutrition talk all about the application. It's about the application I've seen other courses and they're really great for education. So they're going to make you really smart But if you can't apply it, it means nothing as a trainer I don't care how much you know if you can't coach someone or train someone It's not going to get them closer to their desired results. It's not going to help That's the entire point why they're there. I think we lose sight of that all the time How often do you guys read comments on like youtube and our reviews and stuff like that of people that say that they've Learned more from the show than they have from any of their certification They have because we speak more to the application of the science Then we actually talk about the science itself because you have to factor in behavioral stuff If you're not factoring that in you're crazy because it's one of the biggest pieces to their success It's if not the biggest piece and you know and ironically certifications leave that out They do they don't teach here's two things that certifications leave out that nci tackled, which is why I think they're growing so fast They leave out application like I've done certifications. I know you guys have too They rarely ever talk about Like they'll tell you here's the science, but then they won't tell you but here's what actually happens And here's how it affects your clients and here's an example of a client that has all these conditions And here's how I would appropriately kind of take them through and get them, you know on a better path Yeah, they don't they don't do that. They just they leave that out. Here's the science and then figure it out Yeah, and then they also leave out the here's how you become a successful trainer Nobody teaches you that like you go get certified None of them teach you because here's the deal if you're a not successful trainer If you don't know how to build your clientele, you don't know how to organize it manage it You don't know how to charge the right rates. You don't know how to You're gonna fit you're not gonna succeed then you can't train people You can't help anybody and certification courses spend zero time on this There's no time spent on this at all which is crazy because Aren't these certifications trying to prepare you to be successful actually make a career out of this long term And you have to be able to make money. Oh, I tell you what look we all manage trainers What how what percentage of your time was spent teaching your trainers? Biomechanics and science and what percentage of your time was spent teaching trainers Application and how to build their business. Yeah 80 20. Yeah. It was mostly application and how to build your business. Yeah Hey, if you enjoyed that clip you can find the full episode here or you can find other clips over here and be sure to subscribe