 Good afternoon everyone. We're going to start our afternoon panel sessions and I'm Carol Werner. I'm the director of the environmental and energy study Institute and I'm on the steering committee for the sustainable energy coalition and We are very very glad to have everybody here today and to have so many wonderful Exhibitors here today and we're going to be hearing from some of them on this panel this afternoon And that our upcoming panel are all people that I've worked with for a long time Some for a very long time particularly that guy on the end of the table there and And I think what's really really exciting in terms of this first panel which it's really talking about sustainable energy and green jobs and What what all does that mean? What are we seeing in these industries and I? Think the really exciting thing is that there are enormous opportunities There's also a lot of growth that's already occurring But it is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what really can occur in these industries Particularly if we start to really get our policy frame really lined up so that there is market certainty and That there is some consistency with regard to policy that really allows these Industries to really flourish and part of that is also to make sure that we are Basically not Subsidizing the things that are creating problems But indeed really trying to focus our attention on those things as Matt Rogers was saying that are really Transforming our economy and it can create a much better Healthier and more competitive America for this century So our first speaker for this panel is Carl Gaywell who is the executive director for the Geothermal Energy Association And of course they just held wonderful Conference on Friday Down at the Reagan Center and lots and lots of terrific Technologies and people doing wonderful things and folks from around the world who were there And so Carl it is a great pleasure to have you here today I'm not gonna It is all relative how much time do I have three hours? It's always interesting talking about energy green jobs. It's interesting because there's a disconnect I think that a lot of people think of green energy new technologies and new jobs and they think of laboratories and NREL and you know people running around the pocket protectors and Frankly what they don't think about but they can understand is when you say well, what kind of jobs are involved in building a highway? Because energy just like highway is infrastructure Much of what we do is going to be very comparable and if those who work on the hill have ever worked on the highway bill You know how many jobs are involved in the highway bill, but the thing is they wear hats like this They don't wear white lab coats And that's what you mostly find is going to happen in the screen economy You're going to see new high-tech jobs You're going to see manufacturing jobs, but you're going to see a lot of people wearing these too and it's Infrastructure that you're building when you look outside and see that road You can think of the jobs that go in it you can understand what went into the interstate highway system Our energy system is built the same way and in fact, it's hard to understand even to the people in the business I very early on encourage you to move ahead the almost humorous occasion of watching the president of one major geothermal company in fact the largest producer in the country that Also produces a whole lot of natural gas power and he was speaking at the major Geothermal conference in California and he was talking about his company and he was showing his slide saying Here's all the power we produce. Here's how much emissions we go and here are all the people we employ and he stopped In his presentation he looked at the chart again And he looked at the front row where all his staff was sitting and he goes Why do we employ all these people our gas plants don't employ that many people? I want to report on this tomorrow in front of several hundred people But the fact is is that he does and he does because that geothermal power plant requires a lot of jobs The way to think about that is it's the oil field It's the pipeline and it's the power plant all in one place I mean geothermal power plants the only place that you have full-time geologists on staff But you also have to deal with pumps You've got to deal with the lines coming through and in fact if you add all that together You get a better snapshot of what what you're going to be doing in terms of the jobs that you're going to be creating in these sites But the other thing is is that we're trading off. We're trading off capital for fuel You're building more wells more power plants You're spending money to build that capital investment because you're avoiding the fossil fuel costs and when you do that Almost all of those activities again translate into jobs. They start with the front end drilling Half of the cost of a geothermal project is at the subsurface. You have to drill a well Well, the American Petroleum Institute will point out an average well Is going to employ anywhere from 120 to 150 people? If we have a hundred eighty eight geothermal projects in the United States today, which we have and they're all drilling wells this summer You're talking about a hundred eighty eight times a hundred and fifty jobs Just running those drilling rigs supplying them with mud supplying them with roads flying them with everything else they need That's a substantial amount of employment again of people wearing hats like this and people who aren't coming in from someplace else But are coming from the neighborhoods that you're working in That's the other thing you find out with most of these projects. They're hiring people locally They're hiring people locally because that's the type of work. That's generally involved in it But you're also going to see the second stage you got the drilling rigs and then you've got plant construction What's a plant construction? It's buildings. It's fences. It's roadworks again. It's mostly people with hats like this When you look at the numbers and you can walk out I won't bore you with the details of the thousands of jobs tens of thousands of jobs available What you'll find is that construction and manufacturing are the two biggest winners That's where the big payoff is in terms of jobs in at least geothermal technologies where we might employ 10,000 people or 20,000 people in some plants Those same plants might take a hundred thousand or a hundred and fifty thousand people to build in terms of the construction crews The drilling crews and the manufacturing crews that go into it and unfortunately we use a lot of that stuff. I Was told by a senior engineer at one of the engineering firms who builds geothermal plants He says geothermal power plants probably use more steel than any other power plant built that he builds And he said if you take especially the air-cooled plants like a mammoth and unravel The radiator system that cools the plant says that plant would stretch around the earth's equator So that steel is not normal steel. It's not running in me It's also high specialty steel Most of which in fact almost all the high specialty grades that we buy are made in the United States particularly in Pennsylvania not quite California, Utah where we're building the plants So you you've got a whole series of drillers plant manufacturers equipping you're going to put in that plant electronics That's probably the second biggest part of the plant that you build is all the electronic controllers monitors instruments wires And you got a lot of electricians who again wear hats like this And then the last thing you've got is turbines Now probably the one area where the US used to lead was turbine manufacturers little little company called GE Used to be the big geothermal turbine manufacturer until it decided it had invented with government support a natural gas Turbine system that was really good and their natural gas turbines are really good It decided the geothermal business was too small a couple of companies from let's say not the United States got into the turbine business and pretty much captured our market until recently Just in the last couple of years. We've had we've had over five or six Depending on what do you want to add one that just shifted over new turbine manufacturers in the United States? That have started here including United technologies. You've probably seen their small geothermal units They put a China hot springs. They did at the thermal plant in Utah. Those are built on an assembly line in North Carolina We've also had new companies like Moffey Trench, California They built two of the plants in Nevada those plants the power turbines were built in California Electrotherm out of Nevada doing a number of oil and gas co-production turbines Gda geothermal development associations a small business in Reno, Nevada will open this I think this month is coming month an assembly plant in Reno, Nevada for geothermal turbines that it will be selling outside the United States and Then we've we've got a number of other companies like that that turbine air systems So I didn't mention turbine air systems is in Houston, Texas also selling small binary power systems So from the drilling to the plant construction to the electronics in the plant to the turbine itself You're adding jobs and manufacturing plants the Gda said to me their suppliers involved 26 different states in terms of the pieces and the products that come into one of their turbines and they just the last one They just sold to Ethiopia So you're seeing a job of the players which are dramatic and that cost money So the bad news is Mike Andrews is in the back the room and now works for us Mike You know things that companies hate it when you talk about the fact they employ so many people because of the big payrolls a Lot of the companies don't like to tell you that geothermal plants cost three times as much as a natural gas plant because they do We're paying that capital investment up front because we're not going to pay the fuel cost down the road But every dollar that capital investment goes to a job and it goes to a job that's here in America Many of the the power plant jobs the vast majority of them are permanent jobs full-time jobs They're often in rural areas and being benefits to the economy and this ties into the rest of the economy in one simple way Of all people Ronald Reagan in his first budget in the budget appendix document had an appendix that looked at Where pollution came from in the United States and the first Reagan budget concluded that a majority of all pollution in the United States Is related to energy production development and use So if we clean up energy production, we're cleaning up our economy across the board So green power translates into a clean economy and it also generates jobs in the United States and jobs That frankly you'll see this summer. I was asked by the Las Vegas Sun what the status is in Nevada And I said we will we put six power plants online last year and In four different states you will see three times or four times as many people work this summer Drilling rigs building plants in about eight different states in the Western United States and again They're going to be wearing hats like this. So thank you very much Next we will hear from another wonderful colleague Linda church chachi who is the executive director of the National Hydropower Association and I think that we are really Seeing kind of a renaissance with regard to hydro in terms of again so many Opportunities that have been just there that we had not really looked at and now is the time to really be Exploring all of those and I think the other piece that is so important in terms of thinking about About hydro or water technologies and that's true with regard to geothermal and all of the Renewable resources is that each one of these wonderful resources is a whole family of technologies in applications and That is a really wonderful Attribute that they can bring to all of us as we look at how we can transform to a cleaner healthier Economy so now Linda. Let's talk about jobs and hydro Excuse me. Thank you Carol Much of what Carl has said About geothermal in terms of jobs and job opportunities can also be said about hydro and as Carol said There is this real renaissance occurring in hydro today that creates tremendous job opportunities The National Hydropower Association represents both conventional hydropower pump storage and The also the newer technologies are hydrokinetic talic technologies of ocean tidal and in stream hydrokinetic Technologies and we've just recently done a job site I'm going to talk about in a minute But a lot of our work in looking at job job opportunities has looked across the gamut of all water power Technologies and trying to further the growth and development of water power technologies Before I begin and get into that job study I'm going to ask you some questions, and I'm going to put you all to a little bit of work today What percentage do you think that we currently generate of our electric generation today is hydro? You heard it over there earlier, and if you were in the expo if you were paying attention Throw out a number 8% around there 7 to 10% How much of our renewable energy is hydro anybody know what did you say? That well 70 75% it varies between 65 and 75% How much of the hydro generation the United States is owned by the federal government? Testing all your hydro knowledge here who somebody threw on a number? 50% of our generation in the United States is hydro is federally owned hydro So then my question to you leads up to this next one is most of hydro in the US is big, right? How much is small of Then this is of the non-federal generated hydro. Let's say Anybody throw a number out this will surprise you 71% of hydro for that's been Licensed by FERC is under 5 megawatts So a large part of our hydro in the United States is very small Although most people think of Hoover Dam and Grand Coulee, but that's not the typical hydro project in the United States So is it a Northwest technology or a Western technology? That's a lot of people think Yeah, you're right. It's all over the United States That's one of the larger misconception about hydro that it is a Western Northwestern technology The second biggest misconception about hydro is that it's tapped out So what would you think how much hydro is in the United States? It's actually been developed of what percentage? Do you think of hydro in the US is already developed? Throw on a number Anybody have a guess? We actually have about 400,000 megawatts of hydro technical potential We've only developed a hundred thousand of it 90s just under a hundred thousand So we've only developed a fourth of our potential. We have all this growth opportunity here in the United States So if we grow this hydro, are we talking we got to be able to have another big dam here, right? Building big dams. That's the only way we're going to get the next three quarters of hydro left the United States anybody Now we're not talking about building new dams in fact What percentage of dams in the United States do you think has hydro on them? You'd be surprised by this number anybody How much oh 3% 3% of all the dams in the United States is 80,000 dams in the United States and only 3% of them have hydro So the growth opportunity that we have in the hydro industry is pretty significant And what we're talking about is not building new dams But we're talking about building on existing facilities And what we know now is is that in doing that and maximizing the Infrastructure and making it more efficient and bringing more societal value to those facilities that are already there that we can create job Opportunities for our country. I got a few more questions for you now Relatives that's relative to getting to some of the things that job that Carl had talked about and what kinds of jobs this means Well, let's we're looking at let's say a standard turbine a three meter Hydro turbine small hydro turbine in the United States. There's a lot of the growth opportunity isn't small So how much steel because we still make turbines with steel We're not using polymers yet for steel for turbines Although we've talked about that and doing some research on that to lower their cost So how much steel do you think is in the average three meter turbine small hydro turbine? anybody venture a guess a 112 tons of steel in one turbine So it's a lot of job opportunities obviously in creating steel and manufacturing steel How many components do you think is in that same turbine? This is three meters small hydro turbine. There's 3810 pieces to one turbine So there's lots of job opportunities that can be created in the trend in the manufacturer of those components The trade obviously of the components of shipping in the service industry So there's lots of opportunity there. How many man days to manufacture that same turbine? 2000 to 3000 man days So that's good union jobs that you can create and casting cutting bending grinding welding balancing Painting and they hand polish these turbines these turbines are built for specific sites We don't go and say I'll take one of that one of that two of that each turbine is manufactured for the specific site It's going into so there's lots of opportunity Right now in the hydro area in relative to building out that technology We have a vision at NHA to double our current contribution of hydro So we are on a mission to actually bring another hydro another hundred thousand megawatts of hydro to the grid and right now There's 50,000 megawatts sitting pending before FERC 34,000 of that's in pump storage 11,500 in new technologies. I mentioned ocean title and in stream 4,800 in conventional technologies a lot of this is small and As I said, there's a lot of job opportunities if we move forward and build out that technology We currently provide 300 million jobs in the hydro industry today We've just done this navigate study and what we found in the manufacturing of those turbines and all the opportunities We have to grow and develop that we can actually create 1.4 million jobs by 2025 in the hydro industry My building out only about 60,000 of that hundred thousand that we want to do and The way they divide up according to the study in terms of megawatts is looking at the not 60,000 megawatts would be 24,000 in pump storage 13,750 in can hydro kinetic and 21,900 in conventional hydro, but what was speaks I think particularly key in this navigate study is That's we could build the 59,000 just under 60,000 megawatts with an accelerated REF Renewable energy standard, but if we kept the same business as usual we would only grow About 23,000 of this hydro So and that would break out with about 10,000 in pump storage only 1,500 in hydro kinetic without the right policies in place and 11,750 in conventional hydro So we do know that policy makes a difference and growth creates jobs The way we've looked at these jobs is 1.4 million jobs We looked at direct indirect and induced jobs 30% of the jobs that could be created would be in the actual direct job of the development of that hydro And that would go off from this the gamut of permitting it and constructing it and operating it 20% in the indirect side that would be the salat supply side and they look generally at the generation aspect of that you know the Support to not including transmission that project that particular project and then 50% of that would be in the induced area Because people had jobs they had more money in their pockets So they had the opportunity to go out and buy more groceries and go out to dinner and go to the movies and things of that nature so What we also found and which is I think really exciting about that study is that The jobs that are going to be created are generally follow where manufacturing is or where The growth opportunities obviously are but the great and exciting thing that we also found was that jobs existed in every state in hydro So some of that is because the hydro is located all over the United States But some of this goes back to the idea of all those components and the aspects of developing these projects One project in particular Hastings, Minnesota very very small hydro kinetic project that came online a year ago There's particular specific turbine even they had a lot of the manufacturing done on site They're in Hastings, but they used bath iron works so they were creating jobs in Oregon for a project that was going in in Minnesota So the jobs are not regionalized. They're all over the the area the top 10 States for job opportunities in hydro is Washington States number one California Pennsylvania Oregon Alaska Tennessee Hawaii Maine Florida and Idaho those are the very very top states top 10 states But the good news as I said is that there's opportunity in every state We have copies of the Navigant study That's overhead that was presented at our annual conference a month or so ago here at the desk If you are interested particularly in the job opportunities in your particular states You can go by our booth when you first walk into the expo and we have a PowerPoint presentation there that lists all of the states and job opportunities by states And I would urge you to stop by and pick up the material as I said Policy we know matters and Carl brought this up as well, but you know, we know we can build this out We know there's this great opportunity, but it's only going to happen if we get a strong re-ass If we keep the tax policies and extend those tax policies if we continue to support the R&D programs We have $50 million now and hydro our power R&D. We need certainly to more of that to continue this work As well as a smarter licensing scheme now One of the things that's happened is there is great news strong support for high to power There's new MOU that the Department of Energy the Department of Interior and the Corps of Engineers is just signed Part of what we're looking for was integrating the permitting process to see a lot of this growth that will occur Because they're the owners of a lot of those facilities that we're going to be billed on so for those of you that are in Congress Staff in Congress, we look forward to working with you to help us continue the policies to further this growth because we know that hydro can mean Continuing to build a strong green economy that creates new jobs It's America back to work. So thank you I've also had the pleasure of working very closely with the business council for sustainable energy for many many years And so we're very very glad to be joined this afternoon by Ruth McCormick who is a senior policy associate with the business council Thanks, Carol I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today And I could probably go on a long time to talk about jobs because I am very interested in the work that our member companies are Doing so I know that you'll give me the sign if I go on too long What I thought I would do at the time that I have today is to talk a little bit about the business council for sustainable energy What it is that we do who we are And then I'd like to spend a little bit of time profiling some of our member companies so that I can share with you a little bit about The work that they're doing and the exciting things they're doing and the job growth and economic development opportunities that they Represent and then also to talk a little bit as other speakers have said today how policies really do matter The business council for sustainable energy is a broad-based business Organization that covers the gamut of clean energy and energy efficiency industries We include renewable energy companies and associations We include natural gas and we include energy efficiency companies and associations I have a map that's up here on the table that shows Where all of our companies have facilities around the country because we really are all over the country And actually this doesn't even represents all the data points on the map because we do include a number of associations And if we were to include all their points, it would really be all over the place But there's one here for you to pick up if you'd like One of the things that we do as an organization or really kind of our primary focus is to look at policies in terms of how they deploy Existing clean energy technologies because if we can do that we can accomplish a lot of Major policy objectives we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions We can create jobs and we can become more energy independent and have more energy security So there's a lot of really good reasons why we want to do deploy these existing clean energy technologies So let me take a little bit of time to talk with you about the real companies that create the real jobs The guys that wear the hard hats who are on the ground today working to create these jobs One of the companies that's one of our members is a company called direct energy This is a company that has facilities all over the country. They are an energy service company They have a lot of expertise in doing energy services in people's homes Right now they're facing an with the economic downturn The construction industries have been very hard hit In fact, it's probably one of the most if not the most the hardest-hit sector in the economy with about 25% unemployment in the construction trades So their business has been affected and they obviously are doing things to To do business and to go into people's homes and do energy efficiency retrofits as well as in new housing construction They're doing work with their employees to get them certified as energy auditors But they're finding that there's only so much that they can do and so much investment that they can make Without clear policy signals and some certainty to know that their investments are going to be worthwhile One of the things that they've been doing in the city of Houston is doing a public public private partnership Where they've gone into people's homes doing kind of the cheap energy efficiency Retrofits that they can do putting in ceiling fans or putting in attic insulation Kind of like I said the cheap things that they could go in and do caulking So there they find that with that public private partnership, but on average They've been able to reduce energy consumption in homes on a weather-adjusted basis by as much as 19% and With what they call more deep retrofits if they were to be able to go in and change out the old HVAC systems or replace inefficient appliances They would see even greater energy efficiency savings and the the payback for the Improvements that they've been able to make in these kind of cheap fixes has been two years So the payback is really pretty steep so they're finding that they're able to do a lot of really great things by Saving homeowners money on their utility bills. They can create jobs. They can reduce peak demand for energy use And reduce the need for peaker plants So there's policies that they would like to see in place that can help provide the kind of certainty that would Help them to be able to do that business so that those investments that they're making can be realized Another one of our companies is a company called Orion energy, which is based in Wisconsin This is kind of one of my personal favorites. I think what they do is just kind of cool because it's just really simple But it makes a whole lot of sense They make energy efficient Lighting fixtures. They have this one technology called a solar light pipe that they put into mostly commercial buildings with the flat roofs that Create daylight in a commercial space and then they're kind of they can be depending on what the Facilities are like they can be fixed to some energy efficiency lighting fixtures so that if you don't get the direct sunlight you the Artificial lights will automatically come on so that you have a constant Light in a space This is a company that's seen tremendous growth Over the last really just eight years back in 2002. They only had 20 employees Today they have over 240 direct employees and then because they also do work with customers all around the country. They have about 300 local contractors sheet metal workers that they work with to install their Technologies and of course when they go into these places around the country They do try to use the local workforce because those are people who are there on the ground They know the local building codes and so a company like this even though It's only got a certain amount of direct employees can really branch out and use a lot of indirect Employees but again, there's policies that need to be in place to make their Technologies kind of more on a level playing field to what we We see in the market today So policies are very important to them things like a renewable electricity standard and making sure that their technologies are included in Whatever kinds of definitions there are Another one of our member companies is a company called recycled energy development Which is a company that goes in and recycles waste heat And one of the projects that they've been involved in that I think is one that's frequently mentioned is a Silicon plant based in West Virginia and what this company does is the silicon plant Basically uses a lot of really intense hot heat to melt quartz rock in order to get the silicon And of course when they do that they have a lot of excess waste heat that just goes up the stack Which can actually cause a lot of damage to pollution control equipment. It's difficult to manage So all of the successive heat is just being vented through their exhaust This company recycled energy development has gone in and they capture that waste heat and they recycle it So that they can use that waste energy to produce more electricity Which they can then sell to the grid or they can use to provide the electricity needs for the silicon plant itself By doing that this this plant has been able to expand production by 20 percent and Jobs by 20 percent and so what they're finding is that by reducing their costs by recycling their waste energy Is that their silicon that they're producing has become more competitive on the global market? And they're actually able to take jobs back from countries like China which have been the Leaders in this area so this kind of a smart use of energy and energy efficiency can really help make our Manufacturing sector and our industrial sector a lot more efficient and more competitive globally But again, there's policies that need to be in place particularly tax policies That are important to companies like this to help them to deploy these technologies to get them into the marketplace So with respect to some of the policies and just by way of example on how important they can be and what kind of an Impact they can be I just want to point out a report that was recently released by the Department of Energy That was done at the request of the House Ways and Means Committee as they were looking at what kind of impact the 1603 Treasury Grant program has had on job growth and creation since the stimulus was passed last year the Treasury Grant program was one where companies Renewable energy companies were able to get a grant in lieu of their tax credits because the tax equity markets really weren't Functioning with the economic crisis the way they were supposed to and so this was a short-term Attempt to help these companies get the capital that they needed to install and deploy these projects They found that with this study that over 55,000 jobs were created all across the board in all types of renewables including wind and Geothermal and that they were able to generate 4.25 gigawatts of renewable power and I know that Carol's giving me the high sign I will just say that there's other reports that are out there including another Department of Energy report that looks at The job potential if we were to be able to deploy 20% wind energy by 2030 and the job potential there is tremendous Not only in the wind Industry itself, but also those ancillary jobs the attorneys the accountants those workers that have to provide services To the wind industry itself So bottom line is all those policies that really would help to create the certainty in the marketplace The ones that have been mentioned already today like tax policy renewable energy standards energy efficiency standards comprehensive energy and climate change legislation those can really Help create that system where these companies that are really ready primed and ready to go can continue to generate jobs So thank you And I just wanted to mention too that we will try to have up the information that our speakers have presented to get that posted on EESI's website After today's forum and and of course the video will be up within a few days as well We have just a few minutes for Q&A and so if you've got any questions Now it's your chance to put together a pithy question for these people who have just given you a lot of great data Or if you've got other points that any of you wanted to make Any questions or comments? Okay? I Just add to that though really quickly I've been in meetings recently with the folks from recycled energy development and what they're looking to do is there's other places Around the country that have similar situations in fact There's a silicon plant in Alabama that I think that once they are finished with what they're doing in West Virginia They would like to go to Alabama because there's I think potential all around the country for these kinds of Recycled energy development. I think there were three hands over here, but Well, I think all of us could say that transmission is always an issue with first of all transmissions I think a generic issue we face whether you're talking about renewables or any other new power plant our Infrastructure is fairly old. It's not terribly interactive when we're distributed generation It's fairly balkanized California doesn't seem to like to talk to Nevada sometimes about what they're doing and what we're seeing is we grow out whether it's wind Solar geothermal say all the renewables are running into one barrier which is the transmission system needs updating and he's upgrading and he's expansion he's key interlinks and Probably just as important we actually need a political regulatory system that will accomplish that So that's that's one of the problems. We're facing. I mean I have a staff Consultant who spends virtually full-time going to meetings at either state region or federal level and we often wonder how much progress Is actually being made but we in the geothermal business have our little bit behind the boom era That we've seen with wind and solar, but we're seeing that same acceleration a year or two Go very few my companies were too worried about transmission because in part I think there's a bit of cherry picking going on you pick sites close to transmission But now as we're moving down that horizon we're seeing plants that are actually being delayed Where we've got projects ready to go Drilling has already been done on them and we're being told that the transmission part of that might be 17 years away So it is a potentially huge bottleneck. I think it's technology neutral I think our transmission bottleneck it is affecting all technologies And it's it's it is something we have to deal with Yeah, well go ahead We'll go down the line. Well, I would say that our organization Continues to support comprehensive energy and climate change legislation Because that's what's going to generate the sustained economic growth and jobs I mean we can have some short-term fixes, but really for sustained growth We think that there needs to be a comprehensive energy and climate policy If they can't get a comprehensive climate energy bill I would say that the fallback would be we need to see some of the provisions the tax provisions for grants and The credits in the stimulus bill Extended because the tax transfer program runs out after this year and our economy has still not quite picked up People are looking at the bottom line and companies don't want to be carrying a lot of debt and the tax Grant program is particularly effective in that because in our field most every company that received a tax grant is Building more plants than they receive tax transfer And so the bottom line is that tax grant let's them buy down their debt have a better balance sheet Let's them move forward and build more projects and that's that's about to expire So I think if we can't get an energy bill done. I agree. I think we all agree Comprehensive climate energy bill is top priority, but we also know it's almost June Appropriations bills are stacking up. I heard the tax extenders bill still needs to get done So let's at least make sure that these projects keep going and don't face a cliff Because the stimulus provisions start expiring and from from Hydra's perspective, it's true. I agree with both my colleagues here We'd like to see comprehensive energy and climate bill, but at a very minimum We really need to move forward with the strong energy piece that has the very important tax components in it One thing I didn't mention is that Manufacturing that's occurring. Yes. G is new turbines hydro turbines as well And they've gotten out of the hydro bit hydro business But what we are seeing is that there are new manufacturing plants being built in the United States today on Hydro manufacturing and high manufacturing turbines. Voith is expanding its Facilities and building a new plant in Ohio We have a new plant in two weeks being dedicated by Austin in Tennessee. I have a check Manufacturer that's a member that's looking to open this facility here in the US and is looking at the Detroit region So there is real opportunity here But the reason they're doing it is because of tax policies are we have that manufacturing tax credit That is so critical So the tax component of an energy bill is critical to see this growth and keep our industries moving forward Wait, thank you Really fast because then we're okay last question That's kind of like a trick question. I mean, I think first of all in terms of jobs we're in part responding Because that's what people are seeing is the economy is down. We're saying where do we go? I think when you look at the flip side of this the other part of this equation was called the green economy Which is what we need to be moving into and I think that it's important to see that I think the two really do go hand in hand that we're building out power systems But we're also building new technologies new ways of doing things It all really does come together We are seeing you know, you get the construction jobs with the hard hat and you get the new ideas and the new technologies which Turn around and help become export products for this country. They become tomorrow's widgets So I think you really want to sell the whole picture because I think that's what we want to see done and to go back to Linda's point. I mean, there was a lot of concern in Congress about manufacturing You know where were things built and the bottom line is things are going to be built or the market is and One of the biggest problems we face is the US market has been starts and stops and starts and stops and more stops than starts And since I've been doing energy business Every two years we seem to have fixed the energy problem and walk away from it And we've gotten one of the most incredible boost in the last couple of years for all these technologies We really have seen a sustained period of growth over several years the people who are today looking at things like manufacturing plans Aren't on a 18 month horizon The people are looking today at investing in major investment in new contest not just an old style But a new technology facility also aren't on 18 months horizons So that's why I think our first choice will be a long-term energy bill and extension continued push what we're doing Because that's what's going to bring everything else with it Not just a quick hit for the construction jobs, but the long-term transition and frankly I'd like to see our country be the Technological leader in these areas where the fastest grew with the largest geothermal producer I would say arguably we're still the technology leader But I also worked with the wind industry and solar industry And I don't I think partly our policy fits and starts with paid in the fact that we aren't that in many these Areas anymore, so let's make the transition. Let's lead in doing that. Let's build a range of new jobs That thing that's where the ideal we'd all like to see I'd like to thank our panel very very much and obviously it's really key that As your question indicated that the thing is that with regard to all of these technologies in these renewable resources That they accomplish multiple things all at the same time as we look at what our future Should be right now Congress is very very concerned about what's happening in their districts with regard to high unemployment And what that means for the future this is one way we're again We're able to accomplish multiple things at the same time and one of those things is jobs So thank you very very much, and I'd like to ask our next panel to come forward. Thanks