 Good folks, we'll get started in one minute. Sorry, one second. My display here. Okay, welcome everybody to the March 6th, 2023. Aries.com V2 working group. I'll post in the chat our meeting notes. Are you gonna know anything from meeting analytics? I booted the spam bot. Yeah, so welcome. I'll just remind you of the antitrust policies for Hyperledger as well as the Hyperledger code of conduct. And we are flexible today in terms of our topics that we can, if people have specific things that they'd like to cover today. Or if there's anybody new here that would like to introduce themselves, let's do introductions first for, for anybody that would like to go for it. Yeah, I'm Victor. I'm just curious. I've been attending some of the open SSF meetings. Just curious to come. How is that kind of be used in the, in that community as well in the future. Yeah, Victor, which, which one was it? Which the open security. Open security. I'm not as, I'm not as aware of those. Are those in Hyperledger? No, that's under Linux foundation, but it's open security foundation. Okay, is that security. Okay. So, yeah, did come. Is that related to like self sovereign identity decentralized identity type tech or just general. Yeah, the general for open source security. So there's a lot of like supply chain security and etc. Okay. So how, how aware of you are of things like dids like decentralized IDs and verifiable credentials and things like that. I'm actually new to both. I'm a database guy. Okay. Interesting. So I've been attending a lot of open SS, SS meetings. Just curious how does that, because the, the con that the concept seems to be kind of be applied to that. Well, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, and in fact, we think it's maybe, you know, a, a, a nice evolution towards, you know, a more secure. Well network, we won't even just say internet because the transport protocols are, are, or, well, it's transport protocol agnostic but yeah essentially if you start learning about dids. And so those are decentralized identifiers and essentially that you can think of that as an identifier tied to key pair. So normal cryptographic things that that we're used to on the web but controlled by an individual rather than like a centralized authority. So, so it's something that, that, that a person can even create a did just locally for themselves or per session, like if for, for this meeting for instance we could all have created a femoral or like temporary identifiers but that are, you know, cryptographically verifiable. And we could, you know, essentially have a secure connection and meeting, we could bootstrap this meeting via that secure connection. So, you know, there's maybe a lot there we will, but that probably would give you a starting point if you start to learn about the did spec. I'm the W3C and it's approved spec it's the first time that an identifier had been approved by the W3C since I think they say URLs back in, I don't know, 1989 or something like that so yeah it's been quite a journey towards these decentralized identifiers but the point is once you have these cryptographic identifiers that follow the did spec, then you can start doing did come, which is the ability at a base layer to, to, to have secure messaging. And then at the application layer you can build protocols on top that essentially those protocols can be flexible for different what we call trust tasks. So the idea that I did come connection essentially gives you a trusted connection for for communication. And then if you add these protocols that are composable. If you add them together you're able to essentially build an application that has several trust tasks. So some of the trust tests that we a lot of times in our community talk about is things like issuing a verifiable credential. So like, you know, being able to issue a claim about a person or organization or something like that. That's also cryptographically verifiable but more simply, there's things like you can ask, you know, over a did come connection things like which protocols do you support so that you can kind of determine what level of communication that you can participate in with Yeah, and so the variety there is huge but all that to say that if decentralization is viewed as something that can provide extra security. And in fact, we tend to use the term safety to mean that it is both cryptographically secure but also decentralized therefore it's more censorship resistant. That kind of gives you like another layer beyond just security. You know we call it safety or, you know, maybe there's. Yeah, that that that's the way we like to brand it I guess that it's, yeah, more censorship resistant so it's even more secure because it's being the the trust is being derived from the individuals rather than from some centralized service that you could be censored on or by some government or something like that. So, hopefully that gives you a sense of kind of where did come could fit and where you could start. Yeah, I didn't get a good overview so the did come does has to be part of the hyper ledger the bigger the bigger framework or it can be just standalone just to comfort the just for the security portion of it. Yeah, yeah, really good question. Essentially kind of the initial concepts for did come grew out of Aries, what their RFCs essentially we call them and so these are, you know, standards within Aries but did come itself has now been standardized within the decentralized identity foundation so that's stiff. So that's a different organization than Aries. And then this group is essentially focused on helping the Aries community to connect regarding did come v2 specifically to help did come v2 adoption to take off because did come v1 was an older version of did come that has more adoption within the areas community and so did come v2 was accepted by the diff in June of 2022 and so now, you know there's this adoption period for the rest of the community to essentially upgrade to did come v2 so that's what this working group is is focused on for Aries but did come itself comes up out of the diff and is yeah can be used widely across any community really. So it was not like it's a separate independent from the hyperledger. Yeah, it's independent but you know pretty widely adopted did come v1 was and did come v2 we hope, you know will be as well. And there's a lot of Aries RFCs that relate to did come messaging and protocols and things like that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, that helps. Okay, yeah great. Glad to have you Victor. All right any any other introductions or things that I want to cover. Oh, let me post that link again here to our chat. I didn't do it at all what I do I copied. Here we go. Okay. So, just reviewing what we covered because I essentially copied this from last week. Usually we'll go through announcements but real quick for topics. Yes, we had started talking more about the interop profile we had created within this hack MD. Okay, and it's even been attitude which is great we had started to create this this chart for the areas in our profile three specifically the did methods that are being discussed for ephemeral type dids and there's a 1% of those in this chart so I don't know if it actually helps me to expand that for you guys are not but yeah it looks like there's been a little more activity here just documenting a legacy peer document example which we weren't as focused on the legacy peer stuff. A lot of the areas community is focused on that and then we have J did peer to example maybe Roto you you posted that from from your work if I take off our edit here while we can see a little bit more of it. So, anyways, I think people liked the idea of the chart they were happy that got started with filled in a bunch more information from the areas working group meeting. So that's something that we'll want to touch on today. Just looking over let's see ecosystems did come be to services or local agents right so we want to continue to show more and more did come be to services that are live that people can connect to and try. Essentially, try out did come be to obviously at some point we would love to have like a, almost like a did come be to test harness that's out there that people could connect to and try all types of protocols common protocols but anyways, the one of the big movements is to try to get as many services out there as possible. In order to show did come be to in action. Just in meeting with Roto where we, we, we did a nice connection between to did come be to chat apps so that's great that's showing more progress. And I don't know if we want to get to the point where I've seen that this document for DWN carry did come has continued to grow so those are all possibilities. Any other things that we might want to cover today, we can add to the agenda. No problem. Just speak up in terms of announcements, I don't have anything other than the AP three stuff that we just talked about. Yeah, does anybody have anything else. Alex from from Denver. What is it, East Denver, or anything like that maybe. Yeah, so the there's been actually a lot of companies, but if Denver like I want to say like maybe like 15 or 20% of the companies they were like the ideas related so I was quite surprised to see that many companies. Some of the things that I noticed is none of them use, we use did come so I've tried to push did come to all of them from that perspective. And yeah, like I also talked to wallet connect, since they're building like a messaging appear to peer messaging protocol. I mentioned come to them, and they said they're going to take a look there. I think it's because of adoption, even like the companies that work with the IDs don't really. They're not really like the compliance. And yeah, like a lot of them they still have like their custom ID limitation type thing. So, yeah, we're still very early. Okay. Well, did a, did you get a chance to talk to Nick from Varamo about. Yeah, so I was able to talk to Nick and then. Yeah, like we can do an interrupt demo at the drama at the drama guys, they have a mediator running already. So maybe we can like interrupt with them with that mediator. And so that's one thing that we were thinking about and as well as like doing the basic issue credential and basic message. Good. Awesome. All right, that'd be great. Okay. And anything else. Yeah, like one thing that I talked to the veramo guys about they were saying how they wanted to make the veramo agent as like a test harness for did come. Like they were thinking of like doing that as well. I think the veramo agent was being similar to a test suite similar to what I think the areas this last harnesses, but having that for like, all types of diff diff related protocols. So, I figure I'll share that here. Yeah, interesting. Okay, certainly there's a little, well, there's a lot more to the test harness than just the capabilities of an agent so that you know that I don't know if they know how much they be biting off there in terms of, I don't know if I could go into it but certainly just having an agent that's sitting out there, you know, waiting for for did come and other types of protocols, you know, waiting for connections and, and maybe have some canned scenarios that you could run through that would be cool. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I told them that they should check out the test harness because it's pretty complex to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. That up here. This is old old. Okay. So, yeah, let's talk. Actually, it's worth discussing a little bit more about IW. I think I see Bjorns on the call. I don't know if Bjorn you will know. I think you had said that you plan to be there. Yeah, I will be there. So yeah, it might be from my side as you guys know I worked on the did come stuff myself and what I did I ported the SIGPAR did conv2 library over to net as well as peer did library also from SIGPAR. Because I would say it works all the test pass, but overall I would consider it still a bit of work in progress. Because there are some parts of the code which not really ready for production, but but it works. And now I'm on on the on the protocols. So I'm looking at your implementation of the mediator. I've wrote my own implementation of mediator. I don't have everything in place yet. But most of the important parts, like the media mediator coordinator pick up basic message and so on. So, um, yeah, I'm, I want to finish this work first. But we can talk about what we can do and on IIW. So I have no, no scenario where I say that's what I really want to do. But I'm quite open to investing time into interop scenario with you guys. Yeah, that'd be fantastic. We would, we last IAW we had demonstrated just chat between two roots wallet apps. And so yeah, if we in April we can show essentially a bunch of different agents doing did come be to, you know, interop that would be just, you know, a great next step. I think and it also supports this idea of having more live or or usable agents, you know, out there so yeah just to gain more and more momentum for adoption and within the community and I think the more that people will see it and know that things are out there and it's not that hard. And that's the other thing that, you know, like Sam Curran wants to stress that, you know, did come be to not that difficult to get started with then that would be nice. Of course, we also need to make it not that hard so or easier and easier. So, what would have your thoughts been beyond so far so far as you're, you know, kind of getting into it. What is it. Well, for one thing. Thank you by the way for I saw that you submitted an issue for our specific mediator which is great. That's the other thing you know that we each make each other stronger as we interact more. But yeah, just your thoughts as you've been ramping on to come be to. So, my challenge was that I had to start at zero with everything. So, there was no usable of say library in dot net. So I had to implement that. And I had to read essentially write all the code that did come in the bearded. And that was quite challenging, especially the crypto parts. And I wouldn't say I fully understand everything. I mean I ported the code and porting is different from architecting something by yourself. But now I mean it runs. And now I just use the API's of the did come the two library. These are pretty clear and simple. So when you don't have to deal with inner workings. It's more or less easy to handle. Yeah. Okay, that's very consistent with you know what others have experienced. The crypto stuff is always difficult and yeah, even and what you really need to do is run through the examples, like in the debugger step by step and understanding what's going on. It's still hard for me to to wrap my head around what's happening in the background. Like, especially all the routing stuff. And, yeah. It wouldn't be, I wouldn't would not have be able to done it completely by myself. So having like reference implementation, like your mediator really helps understanding these things. Yeah, that's good to know. I was also going to say that the more services we have for the company to like if like three for the mediator. I think that's good for the community so people can kind of like switch around and be able to play and and be able to screen out the service relatively easily. Yeah, for sure. And the more services that are using sick but has their underlying library helps to make things seem to work together better. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say can become like duty factor standard implementation right similar to like open SSL. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, good. Okay. I was thinking, how can we better give people a shot at. It sounds like we're building towards a possible session here. I don't know if it would be during demo time at IW or if we'd actually hold, you know, a session or do something outside of IW however we do it. You know, we would want as many people to participate as possible. We know most of the people I think, especially with the did come V2 community at IW but Yeah, I don't know how much we need to socialize kind of the community to be ready for this. You know, it's kind of like JFF had had done their plug fast prior to IW but it would be nice if we could kind of do something during IW that's an interop session and if there's others that are close but but maybe we'll be ready if they know in advance. I mean, I can certainly post about it on LinkedIn and things like that. Yeah, that might be as good as we can do and certainly reaching out to everybody that we know would help. Okay, because it's let's see we have just over a month until that's coming so not a lot of time or it's enough time for some good preparation but not a lot of time to do anything wild. Okay. Any other thoughts for IW, ETH Denver, anything else going on that we can think of over the last week. Okay. I mean, it would be like a cool idea for like them in IW is like receiving a credential with like OIDC and doing a present proof with it come. But like that's not like they're coming through out. It's like interop, we did come by this. Right, so almost showing a different form of interop there, or at least composability, I guess of functionality. Who has, let's see, AFJ has support for OIDC now. Varamo, I assume, Varamo agent has support. Yeah, they do have some OIDC connectors that think, but yeah, I came from like seeing Karim's presentation since like the AFJ can become like a holder, I think, from the OIDC perspective from the OIDC flow. Yeah, that's kind of like where my brain was going. Yeah, that's great. Okay. Let's, okay, let's consider which agents might be able to do that and what, you know, some short paths that could make that happen. I agree that that there was a whole session on that last IW. But to actually show it, I'm not sure that that's happened. So, that would be cool. Yeah, like I think like that can bring like the different people and like the OIDC people closer together. Yeah, yeah, good point. Maybe, right, include them in. I am not as connected to that community. Who do we think we would go to? Yeah. Who in the OIDC community? I mean, certainly, well, it's Sam and I'm trying to remember his name. It's Thor, Thor. Thorsten. Is it Thorsten though? I'm terrible with names, but I mean Sam and the person that we both know and yeah, maybe it's Thorsten. I don't know if he's the one to go to, but I mean we could start that way. I would be happy to touch base. This is probably worth talking to Sam about as well. To see if he has any plans for this. Yeah, I think his name is like Thorsten Larson is the guy that's developing the OpenIDC for VC and VP. Okay. I think he's the open banking guy. Okay. Well, let's, yeah, let's, let's get that going. We'll see, we'll see what kind of interest we get. We did a whole session at IW. I would imagine they're, they're pretty interested. Drum and Reed was big into that session and the connection of their community. So he probably would also, he would have a good idea of who to reach out to as well. Okay, good. I like it. So which, can we list which agents we think? Not just for OIDC for VC, but which agents we think might participate in just a did come exchange and then, you know, also if adding OIDC, but that, you know, that makes it even more. Well, it makes the group of agents much smaller. So we're saying certainly roots ID agents, maybe a variety. Well, yeah, how do we want to listen? Let's talk about agents first. So AFJ, Varamo. It sounds like block trust will be. Yeah, but we don't have the OIDC stuff. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, OIDC is kind of like bonus material. So, although I would think OIDC would be easier for you. Yeah, they're most likely some dot net implementations. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, eventually. Okay. Any others that I should list here. Do you think AV, aviary or I always forget their name as well. Yeah, I can bring Brian to see if he's going to be there. Yeah, I can't. I can't remember if it's aviary or AV, aviary. aviary tech. Yeah. Okay, any others that we think might want to party. I would assume that maybe in this show. Yeah, so they're going to be based on. Well, maybe they're not they're more occupy. But yeah, what do what do they what do they do did come v2 over. That's a good question because I know that they do a bunch of did come v1 using occupy. I don't know what they have. So let's list them as certainly super educated in like, sorry, I feel like very inarticulate about what we're doing. Oh, no, no. Yes. Yeah, talking about this stuff, you know, especially after you think about it a ton but then like actually talking about it. It's always awkward. So go for it. I do think and just you would be interested. Particularly I know we have a project I'm not a part of it working with our like did come to me like a mediator project in the cloud. So I think it would be interesting. Yeah. Yeah, great. And sorry Alexandra I didn't even see that you were in the meeting my my list of attendees was shortened but I didn't know it was being shortened so I normally don't talk because I'm not very articulate in this area. This is the place to practice. I mean, all I do is stumble for an hour. Like Sam. Yeah, he's very well spoken about it very clear thoughts. Yeah, so forgive me everybody for that. But yeah, thank you for for participating Alexandra that's great. Okay, so yeah, we'll definitely talk to in DCOC what they want to do. Anybody else that we can think of. Ask field students of their interest and so let's put Pico agents. Okay, on there, just so they can see them. So yeah, yeah, that would be awesome. Yeah, I'd love to see that as well. Oh, I didn't I didn't list us right yes I started listing companies and then I, yeah. And maybe prison right. Right. Yes, definitely, definitely. Good. Thank you. That's how self self deprecating I am. Not even list the ones that I know best. Okay. And, and yeah, for roots ID. We might be showing essentially a FJ Varamo and prism. All using our UI. So that's like that that that could be extra cool. Just in the sense that like if the Varamo guys, you know, they have their, their, you know, wallet or app or whatever it is. You know, hopefully the Varamo did come between those two would be easy. And then obviously we'd want to show, you know, cross agent did calming and yeah, so it's a whole mix here, which could be really exciting. Great. Okay, so let's make this happen as much as possible over the next month I'll I'll try to do as much like work in terms of the networking or communications between everybody. And, you know, see, try to gauge who's really committed to making that session as successful as possible. Okay, great. What do we think. I mean, obviously the classic thing is to show issuing a credential or something like that and present proof, these kinds of things. But that's not necessarily as inclusive. I think we've talked about that with like the Pico agents and just in general, you know, did come as much more than than kind of those classic SSI scenarios so is there any preference in terms of this, the protocols that we want to try to highlight. Like what's most impressive. Is that they're for a community to see it IW is pretty well very, you know, SSI aware obviously so, you know, kind of the classics are will be great, you know, but I also want to essentially to get the word out as much as possible afterwards. So, you know, there'll be a much wider community that that will be involved with this too. So, yeah, just thoughts in terms of scenario I mean do we just want to focus on messaging. Yeah, I mean certainly messaging is a big one issue credential. We start with credential that's going to add another layer of interoperability that may complicate the things for that due date. Because now you need to decide which we type credentials and all those stuff. Yeah. Okay, so yeah let's talk about the low hanging fruit first then. So would we want to be able to show happening between these did come agents. Discover features is that something that we would want everybody to be able to. Yeah, yeah, messaging, trust being. At least for me, just receiving a basic message would be fantastic. Yeah, all those slides like proving that you did come into a piece is working on all the all those sessions. So just go through basic. So yes, basic messaging, trust being potential. I forget all the API end points. Regardless, I was just trying to point out, I guess I've done some work. Similarly, it gives you acrobat minimal example that at least goes through these those relatively quickly and simply between us Alice and Bob Aiden, maybe I'll just stop. Sorry. And yeah. So I see also Alex posted question and answer, which I do feel it comes up a lot but I don't necessarily know that there's a ton of agents that have implemented it. And certainly we could, you know, kind of all say okay well we're going to go implement it but I guess, essentially what I'm asking is, you know, what do we think are the, what do we think the features if we were to discover features on all these agents. Where do we think we'll see the most overlap, obviously basic messaging, trust being is super easy so and probably most of them have started there. Anything else? Mediation is. I guess one question I had, are we all doing like mobile agents or are we going to have some, some not mobile agents. Block trust and Pico labs are not mobile right I don't know about aviary tech. Well, I guess what I mean mobile I mean that they need the mediator. Sorry, I don't like an enterprise agent like a cloudy. So I mean, are we only going to talk to. Yeah, like devices that need mediation, or. Yeah. I wouldn't think so. I think, yeah mediation. Well, yeah, that's a good question. Thoughts. Well. Okay. Yeah, we're thinking about. Yeah, I guess it sounds like the like most people, we, we all have like mobile type mediators like we don't have any cloud agents. But yeah, I know that the Ramo guys, they have one of their like the issue is set up as a cloud agent. So it doesn't need the mediator pickup. It's a web service type of endpoint. But that's the only thing I'm aware of. Yeah. Okay. So I think this discussion is highlighting for me that we need to collect an understanding of how we're going to connect with each other here. You know, in terms of, you know, who can do QR codes and all these kinds of things, you know, Yeah, is what are what do we need in terms of mediation and support and. Okay, so it's good that we're discussing this. Because it's not just as simple as being a did come V2 agent and just being able to do things that are presentable, right, that are that are demo that will, you know, gain some attention. And I guess the question is the form of the presentation. We won't be able to shove all this in the 10 minutes time slots of the demos. So we could do a video of five minutes, really showing like snippets of every agent receiving a message so that everyone is in this video, or we have some kind of session. Before the session, we need to very clear plan what to do. So it's more or less scripted in a way that every party exactly knows what is expected of them in the demo. We, yeah, otherwise, it will be most likely confusing and not working. Oh, yeah, wouldn't that be something if half, half of the people there for whatever reason have issues and yeah, then it's like they're not participating in. Yeah, I like the idea of a pre recorded video. So that we can always fall back to that. And it also is a, you know, a very focused way to show kind of everything that's going on and explain it, but then. Yeah, having we need to set ourselves up for as much success as possible during the live session. If we're going to do a live session. I mean, certainly every group could have a demo table. You know, even that as people are walking around, it's kind of like, oh yeah, we're participating in this, you know, larger thing that's happening, you know, at those other tables, you know, they've got their agents going and if you want to see those, you can you could move over there so potentially it's kind of like 1010 minute demos, but that those demos are interacting. That could be cool. Or if we do decide to not do it in the demo session, because maybe that's too difficult. And then we hold like a, you know, an interop session, not not a demo, not the demonstration stuff but an actual thing that people can attend. Okay. Yeah, these are all really good thoughts. And it was a lot simpler when, you know, it was just roots ID sitting at a table showing between two of our mobile apps tell you to each other but this, you know, we're shooting for something much bigger here so more coordination, but we've got a month so let's I'll do my very best to, to get all the parties aware and communicating and yeah hopefully yeah this pre recording I think is very important. Good, good note, Bjorn. Okay, other thoughts. I'm sure that's bringing up even more things. I mean something I think would be cool is like have a group chat. Well, yeah we do have to like make a group chat protocol. So like, right like one person can come from like couldn't go from one table to the other one and like see messages per se, like if we were to do like split, split demonstrations. It would be cool like you can go from one table is like send a message to the commediator to a different table and like you can see there. Yeah, just throwing ideas out there. Yeah. That one might be like IW fall, you know, if we can show if we can if we can show just the most basic interactions in the spring and then by fall if we're group chatting. That would be amazing. They will require a little bit more coordination between the all of us to agree on a protocol. Yeah. And get that. Yeah, get that posted to did come.org. Okay. Cool. All the thoughts. This is a good spitball session. Is that a kind of a gross term isn't it. I can never thought about it. Is that what they call it a spitball session. Anyways, yeah we're spitballing here, even though that's a little bit gross now. It's better than throwing spaghetti against the wall. It's seeing what sticks. We're brainstorming is better. Yeah, that's much more intellectual. There we go. We're brainstorming. And feel free to bring up something else. If you came here not wanting to do a brainstorm session for IW, then yeah, feel free to hop in. We've got eight minutes. So yeah, if there are any other topics that we need to cover, we should start it now. But otherwise we'll just keep brainstorming for IW and then wrap up. Okay. Yeah, it is amazing how since last IW, you know, it's like, oh, we've got time we've got time and now it's like, oh, we have one month to be ready to time flies and yeah, never get as much done as we hope but this would be really cool. I'm pretty excited. And I think we have a lot of willing participants just when I'm looking at this list. You know, everybody on here wants to be able to do this and participate in this I'm almost positive of that so yeah, I'm excited that we're going to be able to kind of collect forces I don't know if everybody knows but we, you know, again, RootsID did a demo for Dayconv2 showing chat and oh, actually, so I had put AFJ on here but what is Arial, what's his chat app? I mean, it's AFJ based but yeah, I need to make sure. We need to come be one the chat app that he showed me. That's right. But but he's planning to have Dayconv2 by IW, correct, Roto? Yeah, so what he said so we need to. Okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, we'll check in with him. But yeah, that would be great too. His chat app is excellent. It might be worth reaching out to the Animo guys because they've dabbled in this and, you know, obviously if, you know, done quite a bit. So I don't know if they would want to, I don't know, I don't know that they're coming to IW, they didn't last time. I know it's quite a hole for them but if they have something showable, I mean, at least in the recorded video. We could, we could highlight something for them. Anybody else that you think I should reach out to? You know, when we say Varamo, we mean Nick. Nick, yes. Yeah, anyone else in that community that you know of? Alex? I mean, in terms of DITCOM, the people that are the most involved are Nick and this guy called Cody. Yeah, pretty smart guy. But yeah, that's the, those are the most involved people in DITCOM in the Varamo community. Okay. Yeah, this is Bjorn. I should be adding people but yeah, I don't know, let's see, can I get Brian here? Oh, what's his last name? Richter, right? Yep, Brian Richter. Yeah, there we go. There we go. Okay, cool. Good. Let's see if I can get Ariel on here. Am I spelling that wrong? Oh, it's, yeah, there we go. Good. We had Alexandra. Alexandra. Walker. Yes, Walker. Yep, good. And Sam. I don't know what I'm doing that's sometimes it just doesn't want to take. Okay, good. And Bruce, good. Let's see if Phil on here. So when do we, when might be like Phillip? Well, okay, I tried. Okay. Yeah. This will probably be just Alex and Rota. Cool. Do you know if any of the Attala guys will be there? That's a good question. I don't know. It's worth asking. Okay. Yeah, we'll find out. All right. Any other thoughts? I think that pretty much does our time. I think this was super useful because timing wise, I think we've, this is the latest we would want to be trying to pull this all together. I'm glad we talked about it. Yeah, anything else? Okay. That's exciting. Let's see where we go. I'll try to give updates each week on, you know, who's who seems to be coming together and interested and, you know, might, might be able to participate. And who's attending. And yeah, at the very least we'll try to get as many of these showing some form of, you know, basic messaging, or even trust ping. And yeah, I'm excited about it. Thanks everybody. We're chatting. See you. Thanks.