 I say one minute after five. We have guest. We have Theo Kennedy is a guest. We have Peltcher is a guest. We have, I'm sorry, I don't know your name, Dayton. That's me at Dayton Christ. Okay, and Chris. So welcome everybody. We're getting better at this Zoom thing, but try and be patient with us. Is that, is that Mary connecting by, by audio? The overall deal is worth more than $2 trillion. Most of us next seven year combined budget. I don't know who that is, but please turn yourself off. Turn your audio off. Okay. And amendments to the agenda. Mitch asked me to remind you about selling the lawnmower for the wreck, the wreck department lawnmower. Of course he did. And I have a little Welch Park report we'll do right at the end. Okay, so with that, we have do boys and king here to present the concept plan for walkable middle sex village. Hey, Peter, this is Sandy Levine. Could I just give a brief introduction for them? Sure, sure. Sure. So we have Dayton rights and Chris Sargent, both with the boys and king. And this is a presentation they're giving on some initial concepts for the project that they're working on with the planning commission to help make some ideas for making the village area more inviting to, to walking and biking. I apologize if to make a village area more inviting to walking and biking. Certainly there's a lot going on in the village. It's been very vibrant just in the past month. There have been a number. There have been two, two proposals for some new businesses there. And it'd be great to get some input from, from the select board, both in terms of what, what you like, what concerns you, either now or sometime in the next month or two. And there will be a bigger presentation for, for the whole town next week on Wednesday at 6pm. And we'd welcome any of you to join, join that as well. And so with that, I'll turn it over to both Dayton and Chris to provide the presentation. Thank you, Sandy. Appreciate it. Sarah, is it possible for you to give me permission to share my screen? You, I would if I knew how to do it. Hold on. Let me just go up to the top. It's the third one over, I think, or the fourth. I think if you just right click on me and make me presenter, I can do that. Okay. I'm right clicking on you. And I'm making you or host, make me host. And then I'll make you host back. Okay. Change host. There you go. You're in charge. Okay. Let's see. Does that work for you? Let's see. Yep, sure does. Okay. So Sarah passed on to you. Can you guys see my screen? Yep. Okay. Sarah passed on to you a larger presentation that we did for the planning commission. We know you guys have a busy night tonight. So we're working with a shorter version than what you guys saw. But it includes all the same largely all the same stuff. And I'm going to just talk a little bit sort of give you guys some background and then Dayton, who's our senior transportation planner will give you a little more of the details. But as you folks know, this is really the next step in in sort of looking at the possibilities for streetscape improvements in the village. Came out of the what's next middle sex process process. And it's really the next look, which says, okay, so we've got these great ideas that people really like. Are they feasible? If so, what are the rough ideas of what they might cost? And, you know, what are our options? And so that's really what we're looking at. And one of the first things that we wanted to look at was sort of, okay, how do we manage the fact that the road is under VTrans jurisdiction? And we'll talk a little bit about that in a second. But this sort of Vision Plan Act slide is really just to make the point that, you know, we're still walking through a process. And, you know, if anyone who is more interested in the later sections of your agenda with regards to the tax rate, this isn't going to be something that the town is going to be making financial decisions on in the near term. If the town chooses to do anything from this process at all, you know, there would be a likely be a scoping study that would have to come after if the town decides to move forward, then you get designs and grants and whatnot before things take place. And it could be a fairly lengthy period of time, depending on what you want to do and who's going to do it. But we do want to sort of assess the options. And one of the key things, first steps in this is looking at who owns or who takes responsibility for the road. And so we do what's called a class one analysis. You folks probably know that some communities have chosen to take over a stretch of state road and a takeover maintenance responsibility of the road. And the advantage to that is that there are certain there are more things that they can do because it's now considered more of a town jurisdiction. So the town can doesn't have to sort of wrestle with some of the trans policies and statewide policies with regards to things like crosswalks and traffic calming and a number of those things. So we have two examples in the slide. One is just a state road in Heinsberg, which interestingly enough does have on-street parking. And we've heard, typically, V-TRAN says, no, you can't have on-street parking, but this shows an example over here on the left that does have on-street parking. So that's interesting. But this other one is in Randolph, downtown Randolph is a class one highway, they maintain it. And there's a lot more they can do. They can do the angled parking, they could have some various types of traffic calming, better pedestrian improvements. And I've got a report that if folks are interested, I'd be happy to email you that we did for V-TRAN that's talked about the benefits and costs of town, if a town takes over a class one highway. And this just gives you some example. I mean, towns are able to do more street trees, decorative crosswalks, traffic calming within the right of way, if the town takes over jurisdiction. But that means you have to, your takeover responsibility for maintaining the road, with the exception of a couple of things. And I'm going to just flip a page up here. And sorry if this gets anybody feeling like we're moving too fast, but so you have this column is sort of the way it is right now, state highway jurisdiction, the town has to do certain things already. And like if you put in sidewalks, for example, the town would be expected to maintain them even if they were paid for largely by V-TRAN. That's normal. Under class one, the town has to do a lot more. The only thing you don't do is stripe the center line or major resurfacing projects. And it's completely optional to do one or the other. And so now we look at what the cost is. If the town was to take over the road, we sort of identified this stretch of a smaller stretch of the village as a possible candidate for class one reclassification. If the town does take over the road, they do get state aid, just like you do with your roads. The formula is different, depending on the class of the road, but there's a certain amount of state aid. And based on our analysis, the maintenance costs, the standard sort of average maintenance costs would be about $4,600 a year in maintenance costs with basically after the state aid that you'd get, it would be about $1,200 more than what you're paying now in this context. So again, this is an option. So for $1,200 a year, roughly, you'd have a little more control over what you can do with the road. And the reason I'm telling you this is because some of the ideas that we're looking at, sort of, we have two, we're going to show you two options. Option A is if you just leave it in V-trans hands, and option B is if you were to opt to take over the road. So I'm going to flip this over to Dayton, who's going to tell you more about these concepts. Thank you very much, Chris. So yeah, I'll talk a little bit about what these options look like and what we're really looking at to create a walkable middle sex village is we looked at the recently designated town center and said, how do you connect this? How do you make it so that walking from the town offices to camp meet is not a hazardous proposition? How do you make it so that the community can connect there? And we did come up with sort of these two pieces of it, which is let's make a walking corridor on Route 2, like this sidewalk, and we really do see in both cases whether or not this is Class 1 roadway, that the south side of the roadway really is where all the options are well held. And then the possibility of working with private landowners to gain easements and make a nature walking path that wouldn't likely be a four season path, but in temperate months would be a great opportunity to traverse the Longbunowski River and connect Church Street to camp meet. And in the state highway walk, if we can go to the next slide, Chris, it's a sidewalk. One of the key elements that VTrans has restrictions upon is they require about, it'll vary depending who you ask and what jurisdiction, but 14 to 16 feet clear zone, meaning no vertical obstructions, no curb, no parked cars, no street trees between the center line of the roadway, the WL line, and the edge of pavement. So they need that 15 feet. And in a lot of places along this Route 2 corridor, what we currently have is about an existing 30 foot pavement profile. And you have, so you have room for your travel lane. And then you could get that clear zone and then put a sidewalk in. And that's about the room you have with standard VTrans requirements. And so in this, you'd effectively have the sidewalk within the VTrans right of way. You'd have a utility corridor, you know, green strip, this is where you'd try to relocate the telephone poles on the south side of the roadway too. And then the roadway would begin. It's a very basic option, but it could be a, you know, it could be a good straightforward one. And something that doesn't require a lot of outside the box conversation with VTrans and doesn't require the town to take over the roadway. But it is a very simple option. If you go to the next slide, Chris. This is the idea that, you know, where possible, that sidewalk could be leveraged with adjacent property improvements. So if you're looking at, you know, the red hand can't meet area, perhaps there's opportunities there as we're looking or across the roadway as some of these new businesses are being proposed for those sites that this sidewalk could be, could play with improvements on the other side. Although keep in mind again, we're not really proposing in this project significant sidewalk improvements in this, in a class one scenario on the north side. So then to go to the next slide, Chris. This, the other concept here, though, is to really try to make this more of the town center and the vision that, you know, when you drive along route to that it's instantly recognizable that you're no longer on a thoroughfare that's a highway that, you know, just trying to get some appeal here as fast as you can. And that you recognize you're in a town center. And this option has a lot more of the traffic calming elements, something that instead of just still being a wide open roadway that might have a sidewalk on the side, there's additional elements here and with redevelopment could create a double-sided town center right across from Camp Mead. So if you look at the next slide, Chris, you know, here's a section profile again thinking about Red Hen and Camp Mead on our left and then the old gas station and potential for redevelopment on the right there near Gallagher Road. Same existing conditions, but here we could add street trees, you can add on-street parking as more people are drawn to Middlesex and to visit the village for the amenities there. The on-street parking would certainly help with parking happening in places where you don't want to see it. You could have wider sidewalks. These street trees and bull bouts would change sort of the profile of the road and really I think offer a lot of incentive for drivers to slow down. And if you go to the next slide, Chris, we'll take a look at this from a plan view perspective. And then again, this is just the more deluxe version and something that typically because of their clear zone requirements, their plowing requirements, I say typically V-trans won't permit. I mean, we've also heard that V-trans won't permit on-street parking and we're able to go down to Hinesburg and find an area where they do. You know, if we could go back to that slide that I won't drag you to right now, but I think in that exact example, there's enough asphalt that they are able to maintain that clear zone requirement, which is one of the ways they got on-street parking on a state route, which is very unusual. But this is the option that really will, you know, we believe create more of a village feel, create traffic calming benefits and make for a walkable middle sex. This also with redevelopment occurring on the northern side of the roadway that this would offer the opportunity for a pedestrian crossing to provide safe and very clearly identified spot in the roadway for people to walk across and not just be dodging trucks, you know, where they see fit. So that's a really brief overview. We'll be able to dive more into those details and sort of what that integration with adjacent landowners might look like. But as you go down here making this a town center street, we also have opportunities to connect this all the way down with the village offices, church street and connect all the way to 100B and the Roots Market. And another opportunity that shows itself here with the Roots Market and the area within the right of way is an opportunity for beautification for adding street trees and creating a little bit more of a gateway experience when you're entering middle sex village center from the from the east. So those are sort of some of the key ideas that we're looking at. I think the access management around Roots Market also has significant safety benefits to really control where vehicles are going to come in and out of that parking lot. And those are the first pieces that we're looking at with this project from an overview standpoint of should this be class one or not. And again, the Riverwalk is something that we've discussed in this project. We've discussed it with Green Mountain Power who's currently undergoing some permitting processes for the dam there on the Winooski. And we've had conversations with the landowners at Camp Mead and Planetary Matters. And really there's additional conversations that the town would have to take up with landowners adjacent to Church Street and find out where or if an easement could be agreed upon. But if the easement could be agreed upon, Green Mountain Power was very amenable to allowing for some use within reason, some use on that property for a public trail. So we see this also as a very good low hanging fruit. If you can get an easement, the cost to construct a natural surface trail would be extremely low and could probably be coordinated with town supportive volunteers. So that's another option to connect outside of a sidewalk on the roadway. And there's just a little few shots of where we're looking around. So again, the idea with this process is just to brief the select board on what we're working on with the Planning Commission. On the 29th, we'll have a more expanded version of this presentation to the general public. We want to take everybody's input in from that point and refine these so they're not hand drawings with approximate measurements but really get into a few more details about how this would integrate with the landscape, where retaining walls would be needed because of slopes, where we're going to have to move power poles and really dive into that first level of understanding for the town to say, we've planned it out, we could anticipate this much in the future, should we do class one, we should go this way, should we not do class one, we can go that way and have a real good understanding of the next steps to make a middle sex more comfortable place to walk and bike through. So by my count, we've got about four minutes and 30 seconds left on our clock. So any questions? For you for paying attention to that, thank you. Well, I know you've got a lot to do tonight. So this is, I mean, my comment about this is, this has been a long ongoing conversation and struggle for us. There have been various studies done over the years of the village and it all in the end comes down to money and that's going to be the challenge of this for me is all this looks great but it's one thing we can get grants to help us do this. It's another thing if we're raising the money through the property tax bills. So we've just got to work our way through the process but I think having a having a good plan and also having a plan where we can potentially bite off little pizzas of it, we don't have to do it all at once is a good thing and makes it more feasible. Yeah and we absolutely, you know, one of the things that we want to come out of this report is to have sort of these are the next steps you should take and also these are the likely funding sources so that you at least you know to the best of my knowledge the VTrans funding that tends to fund projects like this is usually 80-20 so 80% state funded 20% town funded and so you know at least it would give you a number to save for over time and you know there may be other opportunities that come up and I mean one of the hopes that I have personally is that if we can some stimulus comes down maybe it'll be some more opportunities for towns to get a little more of this work done without cost. Yeah and that 20% that the town's responsible for let's say if it goes forward can that be paid for with applying for grants? I don't know I'd have to look at some of the state money out there. It's just the state programs and whether there's any issue with that but I mean I think in some cases possibly it varies on the funding source. We've been able to do in the past at times is do some of the work ourselves with our own town equipment and our own crew absolutely help and contribute that way now you know the minute we're doing that we're not doing other things that those guys need to be doing so that's a challenge but the fact is it has worked for us in the past. Hey Chris yeah can you can you give me back control just I'm just worried that there might be people. I'm going to stop sharing my screen and I will give you control. I guess you let everybody in thank you very much. I did yeah no that's no problem you are the host. Mike's being in charge Mike's for Roger. So thank you thank you does anybody else have any questions? I have a really brief question. Sure. That turn on route two where it goes from can't need to church street that seems awfully narrow. Who owns that land that little bank there? I have a scooter and I and I hold my breath every time I go through there. So what we understand from and understand that we haven't undertaken a meets and bounds survey so that we have us down to the inch but we did uncover meets and bounds surveys from when they put in the new bridge on 100B and it looks like a 50 foot right of way what and what that means is if we can assume and there are some assumptions going on here but if we assume that right of way is centered on the center line of the roadway that the property line lies just really kind of just inside or right around that line of pine trees up on the bank so that the way we've designed these sidewalks we're looking at them to say it would sit on the bank but that would still be in the V Trans Republic right of way. So that's that that's my that's our course understanding right now of course you have to go a little further to really detail that out but no scooters on the sidewalk. Not wide enough for that. So we would you know be delighted if we got any additional comments from you folks we do have a meeting on the 29th that the Planning Commission will be hosting that's you know open to the public to collect more input on our alternatives and you know please don't hesitate to reach out to us if you have comments or questions things that you want us to consider concerns you might have aside from the obvious but whatever you have. Is the meeting on the 29th the Zoom meeting? Excuse me. Yes it is that's correct. Okay. It is completely funded without any taxpayer input. Well that's a good dream Michael. Well I think that's something that could be done if we get some really sharp say grant writers. I don't think so. I don't think any grants can allow that without input from the community. Oh yeah obviously input from the community but but going forward I think that there could be ways that there's no I would be opposed to raising taxes for this project. I don't think it's I don't think it's necessary. I think there's ways to get it done financially. We just got to be creative. Anybody anything else? Peter. Yes this is Vic Dwyer. Anybody that of course it's really nice on this 80 degree day here but it's I can remember in the past always was the question of the additional cost of maintenance of that especially in the winter time. I just I mean I don't think you're going to answer that question tonight but you mean for the class one portion of it if the town took it over or do you mean just up for the sidewalks themselves? Sidewalks themselves in the in the I would assume you wouldn't the river rock wouldn't need to be clogged. Correct that wouldn't that wouldn't be part of it. So we have figures in terms of the if the town opted to take over the road I can you know it's the total maintenance cost would be about forty six hundred and seventy five per dollars per year roughly and then there is some state aid that the you'd get you'd get thirty four hundred in state aid so it would be about a twelve hundred dollar cost to the town to maintain the road. Now that doesn't include the sidewalks so you'd have to. That's what I mean. Yep yep. The town would have to have special equipment to do that with. If you chose to plow it during the winter time that's true but you know I don't think that not every town does that. Okay yep. In the state is okay with those with those bubble outs? Only if you take over jurisdiction of the road if you took if they keep jurisdiction the answer is new. They are not okay with that. Okay and I mean that's one of the the challenges is that and it's always sort of frustrating to kind of negotiate these things is that you really do want to slow people down and that's one of the bold outs are a great way to do that and you know because the wider the road is the faster people go and so that that just creating that visual narrowing really helps but you know there are some costs associated with it. I think the state the the state also looks at as a little bit more difficult to plow in the winter time with the bubbles out they don't like wings. Yep you got to have a 15 foot clear zone basically in order to for them to plow. Thank you. Yep you bet. Okay guys thank you very much. Thank you everybody. Appreciate the time and Sarah you'll get you'll get notice out to everybody about the if you haven't already about the zoom meeting on the 29th. Not my job but that's the planning commission I believe they're sending out stuff. Okay that's fine. We've already supplied them a flyer so it should be good. Okay thank you very much. Yep have a good night everyone thanks. Thank you. Okay so moving right along planning commission presents its revised energy plan. Is that you Sandy? I'm gonna let Theo do that. Oh okay. Well good evening everyone this is Theo and I think there's a report appended to the plan that speaks for itself and the plan itself speaks for itself so I don't really have very much to introduce other than to suggest that it's a good framework for some of the work inevitably down the pike. We had good work with the regional planning commission it passed unanimously out of the planning commission it doesn't change any land use areas or designations it seeks simply be a planning tool for energy considerations and should it pass through the process it's already given birth to an energy committee that's contemplated there in as a way of kind of helping weatherization be accessible to our citizens and and being involved in the transportation conversations and so I think it's a good document and again it passed unanimously and we're happy to be able to send it on to the select board and it we're also I think going to wait reasonably so because of everything else that's going on until March to have a townwide plebiscite or whatever what have you and we'll properly notice that at that time but it's fully in your hands and if and if the planning commission can be of any assistance or or give any further information we'll always be available to you. Thank you I feel much better about putting it off to March for all the reasons that that were discussed I mean having a having a gigantic zoom meeting is pretty unmanageable so I hope at some point in time we'll be able to have a in-person public meeting to talk about this but we'll see what happens. And your point is well taken because the process is more inclusive that everyone feels that they've had a chance to review thoroughly and participate in you know we afforded them that at the planning commission level but I think now that it's in your hands there'll be another opportunity so thanks again and if you have any questions let us know. Theo can I ask a question how many people came to the planning commission meeting on the energy plan? Well the public meeting one you mean? Yeah I don't want to misspeak but I think there was just really one person who wanted to give comment. And did you did anyone from the middle sex planning commission make any changes to the draft that was sent to you by the regional planning commission? No substantive changes to the final draft that came from the regional planning commission the actual product itself obviously was of detailed deliberation by the planning commission over however many months even though we did put our our nose to the grindstone a bit but uh so that that's a product of deliberation but that final product that got properly noticed there were no further substantive changes just three areas where there were adjustments one in response to public comment about industrial generation one to clarify data sources and one to make sure that the Wrightsville site didn't include generation for middle sex when it needed to for Montpelier but those were source materials and not substantially connected to any of the text Mary. Well now that you asked that you know you said it's leased and I think the Washington like a co-op on threads filled in. I didn't say at least no I didn't and the hydroelectric on page 16 that I read it said it's leased since they're leased. Well that's a good catch and if that's what it says and that's incorrect that's the type of thing among perhaps other items that on a review at the select board level you may catch. We certainly tried to give you the most accurate product and I apologize if it says that and it's incorrect um but those others you know. It has to be re-examined because I think there's some other inaccuracies in it as well. Well um I'm sure is that something we're going to do later Peter? Yes not tonight Mary. Tonight is accepting the plan and we're going to start our process. Okay great. Exactly and please let us know if we can help and any other further corrections that we can hook up the planning commission to the select board to make sure you know which sources they use and so forth. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks Theo. Mary just just to clarify at this stage of the game what I'm hoping is when all of us have a few idle moments whenever that is we'll take the time to go through this. I spent about half an hour breezing through it today and I mean breeze through it there's there's a lot there um but I think it's important to make sure it's it's the best product we can come out with. Yeah I thought I was asking that background stuff Peter because I read it and I probably put 45 minutes in it and there's a lot I didn't understand the first time around. Right okay well we may Theo we may call on you to come back and educate us a little more on this but let's see uh let's see how we do we have some time we got to be we got to be careful historically when we have a lot of time like this we still wait until we're in a time crunch to deal with these things so well I'd be happy even with a little luck we could start earlier rather than later. Well I'd be happy to be the recipient of any select board observations and edits because honestly this document is something that I care a little bit about the planning commission worked on hard so we got to get it right 100 right. So thank you again I'm going to sign off and leave you to the rest of your meeting and thank you very much for letting us present it. Okay thank you Theo good night. Sandi are you staying on? I'll be here for a little bit. Great thanks. Okay I'm sorry Sandi do you think that they have to vote to accept the plan uh or from the from the planning commission or is that is just having it in the minutes enough do you think? I don't know wouldn't hurt to have them formally accept it. Right I think it's a good idea. Somebody willing to make that motion? Yeah I'll make it. I'll second that. I did I almost uh we got a hard time I had a hard time hearing you so Mary most. I'll second that Peter. Okay thank you Steve so all in favor of the select board accepting the planning commission energy plan please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay there we go we've got it. Thank you. Thank you guys. Okay highway department update reviewing mowing bids action possible update on center road potholes action possible. Okay so we did receive just one bid for our mowing and so I thought we I'd like to get back with them and get them in the schedule to do the mowing and the bid was actually for less than we have historically paid so the yes the bid was for $4,000 with an additional $2,500 to do the second pass which I think we're going to do because it brings us closer to our right of way. So the second pass means drive around the second time and mow a second slot? Yes because he can't we have put in there originally seven foot wide and then they they're more is five foot. Yep. So how much did you pay for other mowing in the past when you say this is less? We mowed twice in the past. Right and and that was running about I don't have the figure right in front of me but I think it was around $9,000 for a little bit more for those two for those two mowings. Thanks thank you. Do you have the name of the of the bidder so I can put it in the minutes? I don't have that right in front of me you sent that bid to us but I don't have it right in front of me I'm sorry. I'm going to make sure it's the same person okay. Yep the only bid we have received. When would we plan to do that Steve do we know when he can do it? I don't know when he can do it. We had set in our thing after the 1st of August that's when we wanted to do it so he put that bid in so I will we'll be getting in touch with him right away and see if we can get that scheduled. Okay so we we have completed some ledge hammering and removal on McCuller Road and up on Upper Barnett Hill Road and ditching up there on Upper Barnett Hill Road we also put resurfaced McCuller Hill Road to a few hundred yards past Vic Dwyer's house and we'll be getting back to complete ditching on on McCuller Road but for this week right here we're cleaning out none of the guardrails on Center Road we've got Center Road, Brook Road, Shady Reel, Three Mile Bridge and West Hill all have guardrail areas to do. We would like to think we could get them done this week we went quarterways today it worked pretty well so that's that's what's in our schedule for this next week and it'll take up the whole week we've got grading that's being done also for next week we're going to be going back up to McCuller Hill Road to do ditching and continue on with that and then resurfacing we also had to order a piece of culvert for Upper Barnett Hill Road down on that corner to to stabilize that bank and and batten that out a little bit so that will all be a part of the McCuller Hill Road area with that saying that one thing that we did do I solicited a bed for repairing the potholes I thought it came in pretty high I did talk with Peter about it talked with Paul I think we're going to elect to do that ourselves which will end up being next week I'm not going to interrupt the guardrail stuff but as soon as we get that done then we could go into doing that and taking care of the potholes also in soliciting beds I'm trying to get someone to go up and do a little bit more work for us up in the kit and on Notch Road we have a little more work to do there before Fred McCuller can get in there and do his screening for screening our sand so I'm also looking for a contractor with a big machine to do the we've got a slide down on Brook Road we've gone through the water people and we've got a plan so we need to do that that's about a week's worth of work but these two items are going to take some money so I'm I'm asking that we can reallocate some of that $40,000 that was put in for special services and use it on those two projects otherwise if we can't do that then we're going to have to come off our maintenance stuff and do these other projects the other projects the new projects being the potholes and the slide on the Brook Road we're going to take care of the potholes ourselves we will do that next week the slide on the slide on Brook Road is one of the projects and the other project is preparing the pit area for Fred McCuller to come in there and do the screening for a sand so how much are you talking about reallocating then Steve I don't have those prices yet and so I don't want to shoot that number out there because that number will stick yeah oh let me get those numbers first and and then we can fair it up and and Steve the other thing that's that's in the mix somewhere right is is repairing the Woodbroke bridge deck yes yes I didn't mention that yes I didn't mention that but that will also we are going to be doing that also it will do that that next week also along with the potholes and and then start on McCuller Road we've done that before and it came out very good I mean with a with whatever salt that we use and the chains on the trucks it it kind of takes takes its toll on those holes but it lasted pretty good before thank you so I just have a couple of things to add and then if anybody has any questions so as I think everyone is well aware maybe some of us some of us more than others there have been quite a few snarky comments on Front Porch Forum and other places with regard to our priorities in our road work and work plan and Steve and I had had quite a conversation with Paul about that whole issue and what I think came out of that and correct me if I'm wrong Steve but what came out of that is what the residents are mad about is they're mad about potholes they're mad about dust they're mad about sanding and plowing they don't give a damn about ditching ledge removal pushing dirt back from guardrails preparing the pit to do winter sand and a lot of the other activities we do and the reason is it doesn't affect them on a day-to-day basis you know yes having better ditches in the long term is going to improve our roads it's going to make for milder mud seasons it's going to have a lot of a lot of good things I know yes bring us into compliance with the state rules and regulations but what you know what seems to me the lesson that maybe we've learned from this spring is you know what the priority items in our work plan need to be things like fix the potholes in in May if we can or as early in the spring as we can and and other things like that that affect the surface of the road that people drive on and if that means the ditching gets put off a little bit or the ledge knocking down gets put off a little bit or whatever I don't think people care about that I mean they may in the long run care about it but in the short run they don't care about it so you know as we as we work into the future I think the idea is to put those surface issues as a higher priority in our work plan I mean some of those potholes as we well know have been there a year and and yes we know we need to reconstruct that part of the center road until we do it really reconstruct it or and or potentially turn it back to dirt it's just completely unfeasible to reconstruct it we'll put a lot of this behind us but for the foreseeable future and right now we're going to have issues every single every single year with those potholes and and if not those potholes new potholes new potholes so hopefully every I mean this this is going to be an evolutionary process it's not not something that's going to happen happen you know really it's going to be mostly in next year's work plan this year we're still trying to trying to scramble and and and catch up but the other thing Steve and I talked about is we have been reluctant in the past to respond to some of these posts on front porch forum in particular I responded to quite a few emails and I have from time to time responded directly to the people who post on front porch forum but I have not responded publicly on front porch forum I don't think it's good practice or good policy to get into a squabble with our citizens on front porch forum that said I think the point is well taken that by communicating better with people about what we're doing what the plan is what our obstacles are whatever the issues are they're going to understand better what's going on and maybe be a little more a little more understanding of us so what Steve and I talked about is and I meant to have it for tonight and I don't have it so that's my bad but I'm going to write a very short post on front porch forum which essentially says we want to be we want to be more transparent about the work plan on the town roads we want to provide updated information and that we plan is and we got to figure out what the period is whether it's monthly by weekly or even weekly maybe we're going to post on the town website what the plan is not on front porch forum and you can go in there anytime and look and and see what's going on with the Iways and if you have any questions call Steve call Peter we're trying to take a little bit of heat off Paul to keep him keep him working every day instead of answering his cell phone and responding to emails but obviously he's going to be in the mix of that process good well I thought Phil's comment was good too about saying that we couldn't individually respond without having a position oh no I I really appreciate Phil's uh Phil's response I think that's good I just I just in terms of you know the work plan and what's going on and you know if we have equipment broken down or you know whatever it is it's affecting our ability to do the work we have people out sick we have this we have that the more transparent we can be about that the better I think sure so you know a lot of people a lot of people blame Paul for what's going on well the truth of the matter isn't it isn't fair to blame Paul they should be blaming us right so well see him more than they see us but I know that Mary but I mean it is not it is Paul for the most part does a very good job about communicating with people but yeah come become overwhelming there were there were nasty signs posted in front of his house a week ago I mean there's been some really unpleasant stuff going on and he shouldn't have to put up with that right all right I mean that isn't the way we like to behave in middle sex at least I hope it isn't anyway I will I will get that post up there uh Steve and Paul are gonna are gonna come up with the things to uh post on the on the website and Sarah who do they do they contact you about getting it on the website or who's our current I do I I do everything on the website my suggestion and you know take this for what it's worth is that no select word member should be posting on the web on the front porch forum it only it only creates problems I would be happy to take one of your statements put them on the website give you the credit for doing the doing that but I just think that or else put it on I can put it on front porch forum and say that the select board at their meeting discussed this they agreed that this would be the approach they should they should take that way not one select board member is posting well if we decided to sell uh like a weed wacker we can still do that can't we as individuals yes I mean I think the VLCT has been pretty clear about this then and Peter raised the point which is that even you know in the most innocuous situations if a select board member makes a comment alone outside of a part not not weed whacking or anything else like that but it makes this comment about policy that it's going to be there's going to be feedback that's not the statement it's what you get back as you know and that you can't respond I mean you're you're perfectly Peter you could write it I could even I'll just give the credit to the Biddlesex select board at its meeting on July 21st the select board issued this policy from now on regular updates on the highway will be posted on the website here it is please check and you know we could even pick a date I just wrote it Sarah yeah I would pick a date are you and I can you and I can work on it together but yes it's not like every Wednesday after a select board meeting we just basically take the highway update and put it on the website or unless there's an emergency of some sort right I think that's good idea yeah okay sounds good that way you cover your okay the the the last thing I wanted to talk about just quickly just to do with the highway yeah I'm sorry yes can I before you leave the highway I just have a quick question about the mowing can I ask that sure okay so the policy as I believe Steve said used to be it was mowed twice a year and part of that was to try and keep the invasives down in the earlier part of the spring I'm just wondering if this is a one-year change or if there was a policy change about that the answer is the answer is Michael we don't know what it is I mean we got blindsided this year because our long-term mower retired and our plan had been to either either rent or perhaps even buy a mower maybe maybe in conjunction with another town but in light of of our budget situation and everything else we weren't able to do that so we had to go out and solicit bids certainly for this year it's going to be one mowing uh and what the future polls who knows it historically up until how many years ago was it Steve that we did the two mowing four years ago yeah probably yeah up until up until four years ago we only did one mowing I think it was because of the invasives and some of those issues that you've alluded to that we made the decision to do it twice but I just couldn't do it this year and we'd like to get back to that Mike right okay good that's I want to clarify thank you okay okay um so um on everybody else's favorite subject I've been working on the uniform issue oh I wanted to ask about that great well here is here is the good news or bad news on the uniform issue what we do is rent uniforms rent them including winter jackets for 52 weeks a year and that's the only way that the current company will do it so it's 21 dollars and 70 cents per guy per week for 52 or probably isn't 52 but maybe 50 weeks a year and if we want to have summer uniforms they would be glad to have us rent summer uniforms and pay for those 52 weeks quite a concept so in the in the short run before we can figure out other options on this I think we're going to try and buy buy middle shirts say middle sex town of middle sex or something like that that the t-shirts where in the summertime we'll have to figure out whether they're going to wash those t-shirts themselves or what they're going to do we'll figure we'll figure that out but it is just outrageous to me that we're renting summer jackets excuse me winter jackets heavy winter jackets for for uh every week of the year and they're just they don't have any uh any any concept of doing anything different and I know Paul has some ideas of of uh of other vendors who are out there who might look at this differently so it's a work in progress but I'm determined we're not going to keep doing this it's crazy and the guys the brief part is the guys don't use the uniforms in the summertime for the most part other then go ahead Mary I say let's look at other vendors yeah and I don't know I don't know at this point in time what the term of our contract is or any of that stuff but it's it's a crazy uh it's a crazy system it's like from the dark ages so anyway next topic that does it for me we are now on to everybody's favorite subject which is the tax rate and Darinda pleasure did some did some good work for us with yeah she did yeah we're passing in and some uh and some worksheets so I will uh I will turn the forum over to her well basically as I said in my email I presented three different proposed numbers um the first one is what is a bare minimum that I feel we can get by we've gone over budget two years in a row um this year right now we're about seventy five thousand dollars just well about seventy three thousand I don't expect to go over much over seventy five thousand unless some surprise bills come in whoa I just muted them I don't know okay um so this one proposal number one gives us very little fluff that's more or less what we need to need all of our bills number two would be adding another penny to the rate which would raise an extra almost an extra twenty three thousand dollars um which still isn't a lot that would put the um overall rate to the residents at a nine a 1.94 percent it would come in at um 10 and a half cents uh a 10 and a half percent increase on the municipal rate um this is remembering that the budget that was voted in at town meeting was 11.79 first 11.59 percent um and then proposal number three is adding three cents that brings you to a little over a 2.1 brings you to a 2.15 percent overall increase on the residential rate and it brings you in right at what was voted in at town meeting for the increase my feeling my feeling on this is is and I and I hate to say this because I hate I hate property taxes as much as anybody does but I think we need to go for that higher amount the three cents 2.15 percent increase that doesn't seem outrageous um we're getting helped out substantially by the schools for once uh this year but uh you know we've got a we've got a lot ahead of us here I don't know how other people feel please speak up I agree with that I mean I looked at that and I think that the margins are too thin on one and two and so I thought I was going to actually remove approval of number three but I thought it was precipitous without some. So Dorinda just just backing up a little bit I have I have a couple of questions so I'm looking at the um budget report which you sent out today thank you very much the updated budget report yeah and I'm looking down through uh the projected receipts on your tax worksheet right okay so for instance I'm looking at hold harmless what you have budgeted at 60 000 this year it was 61 so that seems that seems in line payment in lieu of taxes however this year was 40 650 and you have it in there for 30 000 is there some reason for that yeah we've got a paper we're going to get 33 they're reducing it so how can they go from 21 000 one year to 40 000 the next year to 33 the next year just because I don't know that's that's the paperwork that I received uh last week that they're giving me 33 000 all the budget that was passed God love God love the state of Vermont okay well that answers that question yeah tax work fees this year we had budgeted 8 000 we collected almost 23 000 and you've you've put in your worksheet 11 000 okay so I believe on what you're seeing for last year we had combined tax work um I separated them out because they were all combined last year okay so I went through and separated them out the only reason I reduced the town clerk fees is because I don't know what's going to be happening with COVID we've now we're no longer renting the town hall where I don't know how much recording's going to be done lawyers aren't coming in there like they were before um so they're not paying for the extra time so I just took a stab in the dark saying you know that's kind of you know a number that I'm not sure of okay I will tell you that the real estate market's off the charts and I've got lawyers coming in all the time so do you I mean we can bump it up but I mean it's better you know historically I mean I tried to look back over the last few years and historically we and last year we did some deliberate manipulation um but I'm really motivated to try and have the numbers as close as we can reflect what's really going to happen and you're absolutely right I mean there's no way we can tell for sure but I would uh I would add another 5,000 to that anyway not that that's going to make a big difference but every little bit helps okay so everything you change here though will reflect in the bottom line number of what we raise for taxes so it no longer will be adding two cents it it all affects the bottom I understand I understand okay and then I I have one other uh one other question here bear with me um do we have is that state eight to highways number a real number is that an estimate it that one is it 115 I believe we're going to get last year we got 116 and I think it's going to be 117 this year so again I told you the original one had a small thing just to cover anything that didn't come in right right so I built that in okay okay those are really when I went through the uh the other numbers they all made uh they all made good sense to me yeah and I I do support the uh higher increase in fact in my heart I hate to tell you I think it should be even more but we got to be a little bit uh we got to be a little bit careful she didn't give us that choice well we've got the choice Mary we can do it we can do whatever we dare do but she isn't recommending it no I understand what I'm not I'm not recommending anything I'm just saying number one was what the minimum that I would say we could get away with no during the week I I think we all understand that and I I for one really appreciate your work putting this all together and and getting it to us before the uh yeah we spent a lot of time gathering all this data that's right so where do we so let me see so do you want to come in at somewhere because these numbers will have to change in order to make that number come out so if we add two cents can we can we make the can we make the motion um with the changes and then it comes out to be whatever it is well now because the so when you plug in these numbers like the numbers you told me to go back and change it changes the amount of tax that you have to raise so when I change the fiat five thousand dollars to the income um for the town clerk fees and say the two thousand dollars to the road uh highway that will make you now come in with less money that you have to raise in taxes so instead of going up it will no longer be like adding two cents to these rates I sent to you with what I'm saying no I understand I'll have to go back and recalculate all this no but you don't have it you don't have it on a spreadsheet where you can well I do but I've got to go through so let's see if I change that and then I so you want me to just add two cents to whatever it comes in there yes I would say yeah three cents right no it's number three proposal but it's only two cents I guess over what I was originally suggesting great oh six it's over whatever she was suggesting the first time so it's two cents more than the number one proposal okay doing that it's going to be it actually is going to come in and I can't do that um now this isn't going to let me do that I'm going to have to go back to the at all and do it on the machine there okay well here's here's the question guys and I don't want to I don't want to micromanage the process understanding that we're potentially building a little pack in there for ourselves um I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and I think we're we're at 2.1 percent increase dorenda your higher number yes that's for the residential rate it's on the municipal rate it's 11.6 percent right oh no I understand so we keep that number three proposal so it'll be 11.6 percent whatever she comes out with well I just think we need to yeah but but it's it's not going to be that much it's going to be that much on the municipal side and I think we got to be ready to justify that but what people really care about marketing back to the highway discussion is they don't care where it comes from they care what they have to write the checkout for so it's going to be it's going to be a 2.1 percent increase in taxes residential that includes any education or not or you just talked about the municipal rate no that includes the education that's why it's only 2.1 otherwise it would be 11 okay right dorenda right if you look down the list it would so your residential rate the homestead rate and the non-residential rate those are locking numbers those are the numbers we got from the state so if all that's going to change here is what we determine the municipal rate shall be and then that just adds in the local agreement and what the total town rate is and that so um so yeah so it would be our number three we had we were going from a 47 cent municipal rate to a 52 and a half cent basically 0.5245 so about 52 and a half cents but again i say and i know you can make the the counter being an argument but i say what people really care about is what their total tax bill is well if you kept it i mean if you look at number proposal number three that is basically exactly what exactly what the voters voted in for expenses 11.59 percent increase right so if you go with that you're covering exactly what they voted in well then maybe we should just skip um adding that $7,000 in income and that's what i'm suggesting Mary just leave it as it is yeah i mean there's still too many unknowns uh as far as what we're going to head into next year so i i agree let's not add the revenue and let's go with number three and set the rate yeah be done agreed so i like that motion yeah um do we want this as a motion and specifying the rate dorinda it's going to be you want to set the municipal tax rate at 0.5269 that includes the municipal rate in the local agreement so okay so that's what i'll move thank you you've got that i'll second that okay it's been moved and seconded all those in favor of the of the motion uh which is which is option number three not adjusting the town clerk's fees or the uh state aid to highways number uh please say aye hi any opposed okay and uh you're welcome this used to take us half an hour 45 minutes can you guys just clarify did we extend the um forgiveness for late tax payments because of covid was that just for like this latest bill we haven't done that for like the rest of the tax bills have we so that's our next number that's our next agenda item no it's not no no she's asking i think so late fees we extended it for six months i believe through to august um we were doing it through what the state um of emergency was okay wasn't it or july 15th i think it was or yeah i think it might have been through july 15th because he just extended it through august so um i think now it goes back to and if that's something you don't want to charge interest then that you would need to take one and i believe and i don't know sarah would they have to warn that yeah you would have to warn that i'm just going through the minutes trying to figure out how long that last last and i know that you specify that was only the 2019 bills you didn't that right right it was on that but it was only now they still owe like if they haven't paid by a certain date they would start accruing that half a percent so what you what you guys voted on was waiving all penalties and interests for late or unpaid 2019 municipal and statewide property taxes from march of 2020 until the end of august 2020 okay where upon board may revisit this the provisions of the legis of a house bill whatever instead of bill 344 so we'll have to remind i have to got to make sure that's on the agenda for the end of august yeah thanks okay so now what we're doing is modifying the board's february fourth 2020 motion imposing a five percent penalty on late hs 122 just the homestead declaration forms who failed to file their hs 122 by the state deadline which was july 15th right right in the previous motion you said we we specifically said april 15th but dorinda made made a good point when i was drafting the agenda that if you kept it to whatever the state deadline is for taxes that way if this happens again or who knows what's going to happen we don't have to go you don't have to go back and revise the motion so we're just changing the date here i mean moving the date people didn't file by by the state deadline which in this case in 2020 case was july 15th are you going to who impose the five percent penalty or whatever penalty you want to pose up to eight percent on those late filers so it's actually what but just for the homestead right right so what would happen now is if somebody didn't file their homestead paperwork by july 15th when their taxes would do we would impose a five percent penalty against them um if they now file it say if they file it today we don't have any remedy if they don't file it at all right right right you know the bottom line guys is this is not the time to start penalizing people for any of this stuff i don't think i mean we had a bunch of people that look like they deliberately didn't didn't file our HS 22s because they were getting lower taxes but i think that's a fight for another day but that's just my opinion well then you're going back on your original motion to implement it i understand that okay i want to know how other people feel i'm just saying how i feel yeah i agree i mean we were all revved up when we made this decision to do that i think maybe we're in a different place now at least i am yeah well that's true we did that on february fourth sure i agree with that so the modification to do away with it yes suspend it for a year sure yeah here well that's going to do away with it just suspend it for this year well that and not impose it for this year yep yeah so don't impose it for the 2020 taxes okay so what you can do is you can do is you can make a motion to rescind your motion from whenever that was i'll stick the date in like february something to rescind the motion that would be the thing to do yeah february fourth i think sarah and then we implement it next year if we decide to go forward with it just keep it on the radar yep okay motion please don't move hold second all those in favor of the motion which is to rescind our action of february fourth 2020 regarding a five percent penalty on late hs 122 filers all in favor of the motion please say i hi any opposed okay done well here guys um other business we've got minutes from July 7th is there a motion on the minutes i'll mow them is there a second second okay all in favor of approving the minutes of July 7th please say hi hi hi and uh any opposed okay we approve the minutes please respond to dorinda about the orders for once i was hopefully ahead of the curve this time tell you orally that i approve them or do i have to write an email an email ah i have i have a couple of really quick things on my list and then we've got uh we've got some correspondence so we had an unfortunate uh incident which occurred uh it was right i would have been right around July 7th the weeds my neighbors the weeds erin and wendy were so frustrated at the dust coming off the town road and inundating their house and many other people were in the same position but they made the decision to go out and purchase chloride themselves and spread it on the road in front of their house and they worked one whole evening putting chloride down there at the same time sometime during the evening and i'm not sure exactly when she emailed paul and said paul whatever you do don't grade the road in front of our house because it's a in good shape and b we just at our own expense put down chloride well paul goes to work early in the morning hasn't looked at his email and by seven o'clock in the morning that very next morning we had graded that road and flushed their chloride into the ditch so my recommendation is and i don't usually i don't usually do this but i think and i i said to wendy and she she calmed down i said to her i said look you know to expect paul when you send him an email in the evening to expect him to respond to that email and adjust his work plan the next day is a little unrealistic and she said yeah i know and i would have been better if i did it sooner blah blah blah but anyway despite all that i think we owe him a hundred bucks just as a which is the cost of the chloride nothing for their labor just responding to that situation and i'm willing to i in fact i feel strong enough about this that if we don't do it as a town i'm going to get my hundred bucks out of my own pocket because that was a that was a bad thing and they were not happy anyway i don't know how the rest of you feel about that i'm fine this is less that's good i think we should yep sure would somebody make that motion i will we move that we give the weeds a hundred dollars for their hydro chloride purchase yep you guys can't do that but you could you could probably just designate the treasure to pay out of petty cash or something like that okay motions are i'll leave it up to him she can take it out of the select board discretionary you know whatever it's not going to you know way it's a bad precedent but i think this is a time where the circumstances say we should step up so it's been moved in second at all in favor i i imposed okay next on my quick little hit list is mitch uh mitch called me this week and said hey he said i want to sell the old town lawn mower i've forgotten that we even still had the old town lawn mower this this has to go back 20 years at least when the town used to mow the rec field and it was on the board or something it isn't it isn't an expensive valuable mower it was working a cup mitch got it going a couple of years ago but then it's just been sitting over there for another two years so as far as i'm concerned we should sell the damn thing for whatever we can get out of it we're not using it we're never going to use it and it's practically worthless but i wasn't comfortable disposing of 10 property without approval i don't have a problem with that everybody else that's fine just don't put it on park form because my son will buy it hey talk in town didn't pay mitch mitch mitch suggested a process where he would put it out there i don't know whether it was front porch form or what it was but i'm fine letting him handle it it's not a big it's not a big ticket uh item i said give him a short period of time to respond don't spend any more money working on it sell it as is where is i have one thing i want to bring up it's not this topic when you're ready to go can we just finish can we just finish that first mary when we're ready do we need to do a motion on that or are we just okay doing it well you shouldn't be making motions of things that aren't worn so you know just do it give it okay that's what i thought that's in the board or whatever like bill call needs to sell we're so transparent that we don't notice that we just do it anyway hey listen sometimes mary you do you do whatever you have to do so well my last item my last item is a long a long simmering problem that we've been trying to deal with and that is welch park and i don't like that but i made a promise to dorinda that as of july 1 welch park would be off her radar screen and i have failed in that promise and i raised my hand complete guilty and i've already talked to dorinda about this um the bottom line is guys the more i looked into this it is a snake pit to go ahead and set up a separate business entity for welch park a real snake pit their annual reporting requirements just opening a bank account is not a simple i tried to just open a bank account oh no you gotta have bylaws you gotta have this you gotta have that i think we need to revisit the welch park thing and i have come up in my own mind with two choices choice number one is middle sex pulls out of welch park and we say we'll give up our rights to that to that leach field area we'll give up our rights to the fire pond the bottom line is if the fire department needs to get into that fire pond they're going to do it anyway whether whether we own it or or uh benderson owns it uh but anyway there's there's some work to do to do that but that would be proposal number one proposal number two is and we would probably uh have to pay some kind of assessment for the maintenance of the road unless we were willing to take over the road in which case of course we would pay 100 of the cost but anyway um proposal number two which is the maybe more radical approach is to do away with the whole welch park thing and say everybody's on their own go out and go out and fight your own battles the the benefit of whatever welch park was supposed to be has evaporated and you know we don't want to be part of the the fun and games anymore and then if we do that did we take over the road or not that's that's a secondary issue i'm not asking anybody to all i'm asking you to do is is think about this and tell you that i don't think it makes sense to set up welch park as a separate entity it's going to be a nightmare i guess wait a minute there's one other thing option three was i knew i had an option three option three was to say to benderson if you want to keep this going you guys run it and and bill us for whatever our 16 percent share is of of whatever it is but we're not paying for anything to do with the water system anymore etc etc then it's the best it's really peanut so there's three options i guess is what i'm saying and how easy those would be to sell i mean but i can tell you we're not getting anywhere now and it's we still we still believe it or not do not have benderson sign off on all those all those d changes and things we did as much as they say they're willing to do it here it is seven months later and they haven't done it i mean it's just it's crazy frustrated it's a real thing for them with all the other stuff they have going on i mean has what's his name the heart of an owner has he has he disappeared or is he around no he's he's very much around he's got a red his building he booted his tenant out so he's i thought he owned that business no he doesn't own the business he sold the business okay they were a tenant and then i guess they were destroying the building i don't know what all the issues were but anyway he gave him the boot okay gotcha so he's around and he's he's available and he's pretty i mean i had a i had a very general conversation with him about this and he was he said he wanted to think about it all but he doesn't disagree this is this is a pain for him too well i think we should have benderson run it i like that the best because then they have to take ownership the way they haven't to do even the most minor things that's just my feeling but we don't have the benderson the problem with benderson running it is and and believe me i give this there's there's some appeal to that but the problem with benderson running it is that if they're going to run it the same way hi other um the same way they've been responding to all this other stuff they're going to turn it into a mess permits are going to expire and we're going to all be part of it i mean if they do the right job of running it i'd be all for it but i don't have any confidence in them i mean the one thing we've had in our screwed up system that we have now is we have control that's enough for tonight i believe me i don't want to have everybody blow out fuses in their head trying to think about this right now but i just and i i'm just going to raise my one little issue very much on a smaller scale marsh boward has sold her house and they're moving to weightsfield and she may not be that actively involved with the fire department anymore so i just thought i give you guys a little bit of warning actually actually mary she she told me that she's giving over the treasure position to eric mativier um and uh and they and so he's a middle sex resident so he's going to be the new treasure of the fire department yeah i i couldn't remember his name she told me that too so anyway she won't be on the fast squad or is she retiring from the fast squad he said she might continue to do a few administrative things but she didn't sound like she was even going to do the fast squad because she's been uh she's been the heart and soul of that fast squad i know she saw out two days she had five offers say peter i uh can i mention something go ahead i'm glad you brought that up about uh wendy i had a i have a question uh i don't know what to do i don't mean to offend anyone but how do i protect my boundary marker down here uh from being uh bold over or having to replace it i've had to replace one uh i don't know if you're aware but it cost a couple thousand box fifteen hundred dollars to do that um i put a uh four or five foot uh epoxy coated rod uh next to it and put pink ribbon on it uh every year that the uh that there's been work done up here i have mentioned it uh and i mentioned it wednesday and uh i thought it was all set and then they came down and buried it so the the pin is the right away is the 50 foot right away it was set by paul herrington in 1970 and it it it joins with the lot line that goes across to jimmy keifers i don't want any issues i just want to save it i mean i don't know more what more i could do to uh to preserve that i lost the one up by uh between uh used to be willovers there's now randy richardsons and and myself they took it out when they were digging the back too far uh in that brook this was several years ago but i've got it back in there now so vick i have i have a recommendation for you and this this has been an issue from time to time around town needless to say you're not the only you're not the only victim in this and i wish i could promise you that it wouldn't happen again in the future but obviously i can't what i did was what i did was i went to where my pins were and i measured 25 feet back and i put a pin there and i know where that pin is and i can put the other pin back pretty easily if heaven forbid i ever need to my pen my pins have now all disappeared that's exactly a good idea but i don't want to give the town any more property than i already have unless they want to come up and reassess it drop it off a couple hundred thousand bucks on my assessment and i'd be happy no i'm i'm not i think it's not our just understand it's not our intent to go outside the right away and in my case in my case the pin was my pin was actually in the right away but whatever it is i'm just saying my pin is not in the right away right i i i get it but i'm just i'm going to sign off if this is going to be a personal issue so all right i just wanted to get it documented but vicar in the town minutes if you want to discuss this further you should you should get on the agenda for a meeting in the future and we can talk about it but that's the way i that's the way i solve the problem i know it's not perfect i know all the issues about you know town roads expanding dirt getting pushed out of the right away i understand all that we try not to do it but it happens and you know it is it is what it is i'm not i'm not i'm not asking for forgiveness and i understand your frustration but uh if you if you if you put those if you set those pins back that makes it very easy to put a to put a pin in the future and it also means you know exactly where your uh where your surveyed pin should be so that's just my thought that isn't town policy that isn't anything that was my way of solving a problem can we set that up for next meeting yes okay and at the same time i'd like to talk about a culvert a curb guy i would say you should talk about that at the next meeting also okay okay the only problem with that is the town may be up there uh uh ripping that out before uh the next meeting and i've i've dug it out and it's in i can't i can't take it out i can dig it and leave it because the town has buried uh when they put that material in from molly suple they buried it up in the ditch they again have pushed the town road four or five feet over on my property victor here's here's the thing and i'm sorry about this but you know we can't take any action without having a warrant so i'm just asking you what to do so you've told me to do peter if it's okay could i just jump in here and vick could i did did you end up talking to to steve about the property pin and the culvert i've talked to everybody and and and i understand paul you are really busy you don't have time to get out of that excavator and walk up and talk to me i understand that just but but you haven't well with the property pit and vick the only thing i just want to say so it's on the record as well i i was never notified about that and and to my knowledge steve wasn't either okay well that's well that would that would be a good starting place at least for us is to talk to either steve and i who run the highway department i understand that about i've done that and i've told you about that culvert two or three times and and but there's no communication to the to the greater operator and he just goes and does his things like what happened at windage and i don't mean that i'm not trying to throw you on the bus i'm just asking for a solution that works that's all vick this is steve you did talk to me about those culverts and and i did talk with paul about that and and we we will work on that when we come up through doing our ditching as far as survey point i knew nothing about it however um why don't why don't we get together tomorrow and talk about that very good thank you for doing that okay thank you yeah anything else anyone oh we have correspondence i'm sorry we have cove it yeah cove it to no no no yeah that's right just i just think that these people need a letter i mean they've wrote the select board a letter complaining about the people gathering on shady real road down by the swimming holes i realized it's state land i did talk to them but i but i i promised them that i would bring this to the select board so that you guys could just respond well if you would just write a letter emphasizing that we have no control over the state park and in terms of the swimming hole which is farther up the road i don't even know whose land that is do we know sarah well i mean part of it is mike paterson's i suppose there's some road right i think what they're talking about is going back to the road right of way you know there's uh the town does have a right of way there where people are parking and i uh i tried to explain that enforcement was non-existent we don't have a kid we don't have a you know a constable we don't have people who are able to patrol that area but that is that's what she's talking about is the right i guess what i would say is if she has a you're right we have no we have no ability to do anything about that and we're sorry but if she's staying in her house and she's staying a hundred feet away from that i don't think she's at risk i am one of the swimmers who goes there on a regular basis and people are with their families and they stay apart from other people we're not wearing masks in the water but we're not near people we don't like get close to people that are there and go to right spell you'll see close people there all right i just think i i did i did respond to her uh by a uh just an email directly to her she didn't respond back to me i told her that so i i guess what what i'm suggesting is sorry you just say it was it was discussed at the select board meeting and there's unfortunately nothing further we can do at this time something like that send it out to her okay well you you could also put in writing that the state don't you know we don't have any control over the state park and and uh we don't have enforcement over any right of way we might have next to the road so it's in it's in writing you've probably told her that already i i don't think she needs to think that if we did have control we would be stopping everyone from going to the swimming holes right that's not gonna happen or should it happen right so don't like say oh sorry we would but we can't so just and say that i just said we can't but fortunately like a lot of these things go to the market and see all the people without masks going the wrong way up the aisles i had some silver-haired octogenarian scream at me when i passed her three times in a row going the wrong way and asked her politely to go the right way and she told me she'd been shopping that way for 40 years and she wasn't changing and she didn't give a damn what i thought not very nice was that price chopper or was that that was just but i i mean call the police no it is what it is the guys i gotta go take your temperature right here in the middle of your forehead i'm gonna i'm gonna bring liz over she can she can control them you gotta have a parking police okay good night everyone i'm adjourning the meeting okay don't forget you have a bca meeting next tuesday at this time i'm sorry just don't forget you don't remind us though right what bca is next tuesday at five correct yes tuesday the 28th that's right you've got a you've got a property hearing involving a million dollar property plus what's this Mary this isn't the bca meeting i just asked a question who's is it we're gonna get it scott from it scott and gretchen bodens at 67 zedon road okay gotcha all right thank you see you guys have a good night everybody