 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump! Mind pump! With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. We had a great opportunity. You know what I love? So we met the owners of Kimera in person. I like to say Kymer. Kymer. The other day. You like to say Keener. Great guys. And they brought with them one of the... They brought some back up. Frankie was a little scared. I've been talking shit to him. Because he likes to be a smart mouth all time with me. Is he scared though? I mean, he's trying to fight a world class boxer. When you come here, bro, I'm going to punch you in your lip and he shows up with a fucking two times. Oh, is that why he brought him? Well, here's the funny thing. So we're all sitting meeting up for dinner, right? We all sit down and they bring Chris Algieri. Those of you who know boxing know exactly who that is. Those of you don't have no idea. Right. And none of us had any idea. So he sits down. We were idiots. He sits down and I'm like, I don't know who this guy is. He looks really fit. Don't know who he is. And they're like, oh, he's one of our brand ambassadors. Talked really intelligently. Super smart guy. Super nice guy. I would never guess he's been punched in the head a bunch of times. Exactly, exactly. Great vibes and turns out this guy's a fucking badass. He is a savage. Oh my God. He's the former WBO World Boxing Champion and the ISKA and WKA World Kickboxing Champion. He went the distance with Manny Pacquiao. Yeah, the crazy part was impressive. He did that right before Pac-Man went on to go fight Floyd Mayweather. And so he went, well, that's how close he was to getting that Floyd Mayweather fight, man. So in this episode, we get into, of course, we're going to talk about Mayweather and McGregor with that going on. Especially being a guy who was really close to being somebody who got a chance. He deserves this fight. Right, right. And so we get his fight analysis of McGregor and, I mean, not Pacquiao, but McGregor and Mayweather. Also talks about some of the toughest fighters that he ever fought and what it was like to fight Manny Pacquiao. What a great episode. We could articulate, like, boxing so well. It was fascinating to listen to. Yeah, we talk about fitness and nutrition. And a mindset too of an athlete, a competitor, a champion. Very, very interesting episode. Great guy to talk to. I think he'd make a great podcaster one day. In fact, he was actually really good on the mic. Sometimes you get an athlete on the mics and you don't know how it's going to turn out. Well, he's a commentator for Bellator. So I told him, I was like, man, that's your calling, man. Yeah, he did a really good job. You can check out his Instagram page. It's Chris, spelled C-H-R-I-S underscore L-G-E-R-E-L-A-L-G-I-E-R-I. Check them out. Awesome, dude. You're going to love this podcast. So here we are talking to Chris Algieri. Also, this month, we are giving away one of our most valuable assets. Probably the most valuable thing that we offer at Mime Pump is our private Mime Pump forum. Oh, it's going up after August, too. Yeah, the price is going to be going up later on after this month. But the private forum is an incredible resource. I mean, we have, I think like 2,000 people on there, a lot of which are fitness professionals, doctors. We have Dr. Jordan Shallows on there, Dr. Justin Brink, who we talk about all the time. Johanna just got on there. Johanna, another great trainer that I put on. There's also a movement specialist. We have competitors who compete in bodybuilding, who compete in physique and bikini. And then, of course, me, Adam, and Justin are on there every single day. And it's just, I'll tell you what, people ask me all the time where I get the studies that I reference on the show. And I'm going to be honest with you, probably half of the studies that I reference are ones I discover from the forum. I love it. I fucking love it. Like, these people will post- Lots of smart people, man. Oh, it's great. And I'll get the studies firsthand from people who are actually in the field studying it. And so, if you're looking for an incredible resource for fitness information, for people to judge your workout form, or your exercise form, or how to correct imbalances, all that stuff, our form is extremely valuable. And this month, we're going to give away our form for free if you enroll in any of our maps programs, whether you enroll in an individual program, or you enroll in one of our amazing bundles, including our Super Bundle, which has all of our programs and is about a year's worth of exercise programming. For more information on all of this, or if you just want to enroll, because you're a smart person, the place to do it is mindpumpmedia.com. Hard time. Pigeon messages. He defined hard time. Oh, yeah. There's nothing like watching the soot come down a man's crack. What movie was that? Don't be a menace while dreaming. When you realize you're going to be in, and in for multiple days there, did you look and say, I got to find the biggest dude and go pick a fight? Like, isn't that the rule? You know what they say? Yeah, absolutely not. No? No fucking way. Everybody in there looked like a murderer, bro. Did it ever cross your mind though that you're supposed to do that? Isn't that what they said? Yeah, it did cross my mind to do that, and then getting stabbed. Like a plastic fork or a knife. So I feel like, you know, I've never had, I've never done time like you've done time. So I feel like, at that moment you have to be thinking in your head like, I'm either one, I'm going to go fuck this dude up, but then you're like, you're saying you're nervous you're going to get shanked, so you don't do that. But then the other side of that is that means that I could end up being somebody's bitch at one point, right? That has to go through your head. I took the ladder. It's a decision that you have to make. It's an honorable one. It's difficult to find the middle of the pack in the prison yard. Oh, that could be the worst, right? Getting your ass whipped, getting you raped, that's got to be the worst. I'm an errand boy. That's a good point. That's a good point. If you make the wrong decision. Go get stuff. You make the wrong decision, you pick the fight, you get beat up, and now you have to be someone's bitch anyway. Dude, and you know what was crazy? The baddest dude in there was Dominican. I told him I was Dominican and he's like, yeah, but we're not the same Dominican. Oh, he didn't claim you. So he totally dissed me. Oh, he didn't claim you? Again, back to you saying that he's a shitty storyteller. These are all really good points that should be in the story. Right, that's right. Did we start? He's still aggregating data. We had to do a second podcast just so I could get some of this fucking rest of the goddamn story here, because it tells these, oh yeah, with the gel for four days. If we keep asking him, there'll be more. I got a phone call. That's it. Cool. Yeah, you missed the guy with the baloney sandwich. You missed the phone, the collect calls. Come on, man. Those are the best pieces of all this. This one dude told me that I should have thrown the body overboard. He's like, oh man, no weakness, no crying. I'm like, yeah, next time I got this. I'll remember that. They say you become a better criminal when you go away. You learn all the secrets. That's anecdotal evidence right there. Now, Chris, when we were podcasting earlier, and Frankie kept telling us terrible stories, I didn't get a chance to really dive into you and your journey from becoming an amateur. And then also pivoting from being a kickboxer and then going full boxing, that moment where you had to decide that we didn't, I started to ask you and we didn't finish it. I wanted to know more about what really made you go the boxing direction. And you said a little bit about your history with your, you grew up being a fan. And then our fight as well. Yeah, because I know that. We'll talk about that. We're hyping that up. But why not MMA, you know? Yeah. So, you know, with MMA, so I had, you know, I came from kickboxing and I just thought that for me to then add more skills and techniques wouldn't be the same as me kind of taking away and kind of mastering the two that I've already been working on. So I felt more about mastering my hands rather than adding techniques that I'd be kind of playing catch up on. Do you feel that that's necessary now when you look at MMA? Like, I remember watching it when it first started. Remember when it used to be like a boxer versus a karate guy? You know, like you had one discipline. Now it seems like you have to be... Well, MMA is the discipline now. There are literally MMA gyms. And that's a pretty recent thing. You know, you've got guys that have now been training MMA for a decade. You know, that wasn't the case, like you were saying early on when it was the boxer versus the Jiu-Jitsu specialist. Well, some people think it's training and boxing, training in Jiu-Jitsu, training in Muay Thai, but it's not even that. It's also learning how to integrate them because boxing for boxing is different than boxing for MMA. Absolutely true. You know, grappling for Jiu-Jitsu is different than grappling for MMA. You have to learn how to integrate them all. Yeah, but I always love hearing fighters' perspective on this because some of them agree and disagree on this point. I want to hear your opinion. Should it be in a one-house type of deal or like what I get some guys that I know that are pros that talk to me about, it's so much better to go to that one discipline and master it by one of the greatest masters in that and go over here, find that one, master that versus one gym that's kind of hubbing. You know, maybe they have one coach that's really awesome at hands, but then as far as his ground, the other guy who's the ground game guy, well, you know, he's only got about five years' experience where you'd be better off going and working outside. What's your thoughts on that? Well, on that, it's not realistic to go and go master disciplines because you have such a limited amount of time. You know, so if you're starting in your late teens or whatever, your prime of your fight career is going to be during your 20s. You would be spending time mastering all those disciplines in that case. What I suggest and what I've always found best is I've trained with a lot of different other trainers and I took from them what I could, like what served me and my style and I kind of left behind the things that didn't. So I didn't take on their style entirely, I just took on parts of their style that I saw as serving me and for what my ultimate style would be. Now we talk a lot about paradigm shattering moments for us in our career and the things that we do. Did you have moments like you talk about, you had all these different coaches, I'm sure you've had tons of brilliant minds and talented boxers that you fought with. Did you have moments that was like big learning lessons like holy shit this whole time, I've been dipping to the left when he does that. Can you remember those moments? Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing about being at the elite level, your mistakes get shown up, shown really quickly. You make a mistake that you said, if I'm dipping this way, it's like, these guys let you know in media. They're really good at reading things that are going on out there and making adjustments. The best fighters in the world adjust on the fly in seamless manner. At what level do you start diving into your opponent? At what level does that become a huge piece of studying the opponent? It depends on, at the lower ranks, you're not really sure about the guy. It's going to be tough to find YouTube videos on a guy who's four and seven. But then once you start fighting guys who now have a background, whether it be amateur, the guy could be 13 or 14 or no, because you always have those crossroad fights beginning where it's you versus another prospect. And the guy who wins goes on. Do you always know when that is? You don't, but you do. Maybe the fighter might not know, but their management knows. Their team knows. But I think fighters who kind of grew up around the sport or maybe watch the sport know those kind of crossroad opportunities. Oh, wow. And they happen back to back to back to back. And honestly, it's just like, you've got to win. So I won my World Tire. I was 20-0 at the time. If I had lost at any point leading up to that, I wouldn't have gotten to the fights that I got. I wouldn't even gotten the fights, let alone had a chance. How many times do you think you've had a young kid coming up that is a potential prospect in your career that you've had to fight? How many of those? It started as early. My TV, my national television debut, I fought this kid, Jose Peralta, who was actually Dominican. And the kid was a monster. And I had literally people reaching out to me being like, yeah, don't fight this kid. I've seen him in the amateurs. And he's really got a lot of money behind him. And he's really coming up. And I was just like, dude, it's TV. And this is my opportunity for people to see what I do. How hard that I work. Tell me, walk me to that fight. That must have been a fucking great game. Was that a hard one? Yeah. If you guys want to look up a really fun fight to watch, it's Chris Algera versus Jose Peralta. It was on NBC Sports. This is 2012 or so. In a 10-round fight, I think CompuBox locked me in at about 1,100 punches. Holy cow. That's an act to fight. And everybody was like, wow. Why did you throw so many punches? Did you train to do that? I was like, no. It was on me like right on rice. And the only thing I could do to keep him off me was fucking punch. So I just let my hands go nonstop. And it became a war of attrition. Because in the beginning rounds, it was really tick for tack back and forth. I was boxing smart early. And then he really brought on the heat. He was a big puncher. Caught me a couple of times. And then I was just like, you know what? I just need to push. I just need to push until he can't keep up. That's exactly what happened. What does it feel like? Us Dominicans are savages. We're just blessed with genetics. Obviously. What does it feel? I've always thought to myself when I watch these fights, how does it feel the days after the fight? How does your body feel? What's the healing look like? So I get that question a lot. And it's really variable. Like there are fights that literally, you could fight a 12 round fight. And you're literally like fine. Like you're sore from like, and you've had harder workouts during camp. Then you could have a fight that was five or six rounds and you're sore for like a week. I had a black eye at the Ruslan Provincial Fight for three months. That's the one that you told us about earlier? Yeah. That's when I broke my orbital. But like literally, even if there was completely healing, everything's good, I still had black in my eye well, you know, it was off color. And certain days I'd wake up, it'd be worse than others. Well. Well up. Yeah. I feel, I've heard this too a lot. And can you confirm that you can feel like another man's spirit when it's been broken, like in a fight? Oh my God. It's my favorite fucking fight in the world. Yes. Good. When the shark eyes come out. Domination. When I fought Provotnikov, I said it in one of the pre-fight interviews, which really blew people's mind, because I was really unheralded at that point. And I said, you know, our styles are not that different. And everybody scoffed, because he was a go-forward Terminator style. Siberian Rocky was his nickname. Murderous puncher. Knocked everybody out. Took everybody's punch and just kind of like, one fights the war of attrition and big power. And I was a savvy, smooth boxer who got hit very, very little and had good conditioning. So when I compared our styles, they were like, no, that doesn't make any sense. And I'm like, yeah, but we're both, we fight to break our opponent's will. We just do it in different ways. Ruslan does it by landing hard punches, by taking your best shot to the point where you're like, I can't hurt this guy and he's still coming. And I break your will by being in your face all night and keeping my hands on you and making you miss and making you feel like, I can't beat this guy. He's just too good. You know? So having that moment when you kind of break away, it's probably like a foot race or something, where like, you get ahead and it's like, now you're in my wake, dude, and you're gonna stay there. And you just turn it on from there. Can you give us a story of a fight that you were in where you was just the most difficult test for you? Definitely the Pac-Out fight. He was just, he was so... I mean, you went the distance with him, right? Yeah, we went to, I spent 12 rounds with him over in Macau, China. And he just was, really it was the, I just didn't expect it. He was... Mexican supplements. And I mean, yeah, I mean, his endurance and his power were great, but it wasn't even that. It was just like, he was so hard to prepare for in terms of style. Like, I had hired the sparring partner that everybody used for Mani Pac-Out. Like, there was this kid and he's just, he's great. He switches sides. He fights Southpaw. He's very awkward. He's very jumpy. He moves around great. And it just, it was nothing like the man in the ring. You know, he was just... Really? It was crazy. The angles that he was able to cut, the punches that he was able to land from such awkward positions, but still generating power. That was the biggest thing. Because you know when you're safe in a ring. Like, I cut a corner. I'm like, all right, this guy can't hit me hard here. He does. Is there a moment during the fight where you felt like he earned your respect on that level where you're like, fuck, this dude is that good? Yeah. Does that ever cross your mind while you're fighting? Oh, yeah. And it happens in fights where fights that I won. Like, I'm in there like, all right, this guy could really fucking scrap. Or this guy's tricky or scary or dangerous. You know, some guys, they just, some guys really, they got their Sunday punch. And they're not really great fighters, but they're really good at setting up that shot. And not necessarily that shot knocks you out, but it clips you and it hurts you. Oh, wow. You carry that for a while. Even if you get rocked or stunned or whatever, you carry that punch with you for at least a few rounds. What do you mean by that when you, what does that feel like? What do you mean? So it could be a couple things. It could be one, like, literally you got rocked equilibrium-wise, and it can take a few rounds to come back. So you just go off? You're just off. So every step is a little bit off. Your feeling is a little weird. You think you're standing still, but your body is actually swaying or rocking. You got off a boat. Yeah. Like you lose your, you lose your land legs kind of. And then, but then there are other shots where my eye break, you know, and my eye is swelling now. So I'm carrying that into the next couple of rounds or I break my nose or my nose is bleeding. Now my breathing is inhibited. It's going to change the outlook of the fight moving forward. So every punch can literally change the story. Is there, I've talked to boxers in the past, friends of mine, and they said that you can kind of train yourself to learn how to get punched and is that truth? Yeah. I mean, you see a lot of guys when they come off and they kind of like get rung by punches than I used to. Those little muscles in your neck and like catching those punches and your body's ability to like kind of like tighten up fast when something's coming. When you see that punch and you're like, you know, and that's a big thing is getting hit with punches that you see versus punches that you don't. It's the ones that you don't. They don't have to be that hard. You know, just your body's not reacting the same way. That's what, that's what I've heard people say. Is there any truth to, we've talked about this on several episodes. People have asked this friend who was a boxer, older gentleman. He actually was a client of mine in his 70s and he said the last thing to leave a man is his power. Yeah. Is that true? That's true. Yeah, totally. So my pro kickboxing debut, I was 19 years old. Couldn't even shave yet. I thought, my pro debut I fought a guy was 37. Oh shit. And it was, it was, it was the youth versus the experience. It's like fighting your dad. Literally. Young line versus old line. Yeah. Like I'm like, I'm not going to be stronger than this guy. And I'd seen him on the circuit before. Like I knew, you know, about him in his style. I knew he was kind of tricky and he was, he was a good puncher. He knocked people out. I was just like, I just got to overwhelm him and just kind of stay on him. And when he wants to rest, not let him. And that's exactly what happened. I knocked him out in the third round, but. Now, do you get a lot of help to like, I mean, the way you analyze another fighter and how you prepare for a fight. Is that all on you or do you have a team now guys that like help you to mean, how does that? There's kind of two schools of thought there. Some fighters hate watching tape and they hate watching fights, especially their opponent before as they're getting ready for them. And then then that case, you're going to have your team do the work. And I think that's really important. Tape review is really, really important to watch a guy. I'm not a huge proponent of watching tape. I just want to know kind of maybe a little bit stylistically how they're going to move and whatnot. But then there are guys who watch like tons of tape. Is that because you don't want to overthink it? Or what's your reason behind that? I'm a rhythm fighter. I think of that if I'm watching a video, I can't guess someone's rhythm based on who they're fighting because your rhythm changes with who you're in the ring with. And I always feel like I'll figure that out quick in the ring. So you try and find like training partners that somewhat emulate that at least so you can get a feel. Exactly. At the very least, like have the right side forward. If you've got a South Pole who's fighting with his right hand in front or you've got an orthodox who's fighting with his left in front. But also like certain certain tells like this guy dips to his right. This guy's got a big left hook. Even at the highest level, I got like Tito Trinidad who is known for his left hook. You're not going to spar a guy with a big right hand. It doesn't have a good left hook because the punch is coming from literally the opposite angle. So you kind of ingrain and program all that. I like watch and tape. Do you? We know what kind of tape you want. But he has nothing on me. So nothing on you too. Yeah. What's going on with that? You guys are going to do some. I'm a hundred and no in the streets. I didn't realize this. I got brought on by Kamara Kofi just so I could fight Frankie. They were handpicking. Manny Pacquiao doesn't have this. The Don King of coffee over here. Frankie's also the matchmaker for Kamara Kofi. Apparently. He won't know what hit him. Are you really going to YouTube this? Are you going to do this? Yeah, dude. He doesn't stand a chance. Oh my God, dude. Did you get insurance or anything before you did this? Why would I? Have you seen my frame? You can wear a helmet? I'm freaking 6'5", 250 pounds, 4% body fat. 4% body fat. In your head. What? In your head. Oh no, man. It's because we're on a podcast. I saw you ate. That's why you could do that for a video. This is some video? Yeah. Dude, I hope you have dental insurance, man. Teeth are expensive. He knows. He definitely knows. Yeah. I got a professional mouth piece, man. Put it in by the streets. So training wise to give yourself the type of... Well, first off, what kind of fitness does one need to be a boxer? Because sports require specific types of fitness. I mean, you're going to need a particular type of it. I remember when I trained a lot in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, I had really good stamina or decent stamina for jiu-jitsu and I remember I went... I had a friend of mine who was a kickboxer and all he did was hold pads for me and I remember how fast I got fatigued doing that and I realized it was so different in terms of the type of endurance or type of... What kind of fitness do you need for boxing in particular? So that's a really interesting question because the different biomotor abilities that you need sport to sport, I almost like in boxing to like a soccer midfielder where you've got to be able to constantly move but also have short sprints and explode. And the body also you got to incorporate the upper body movement, the upper body strength. So it's basically a movement where you have to be able to constantly move so you've got that base endurance but then also explode, sprint and generate power. So it encompasses so many different biomotor abilities. It really is tough to train everything at once. You really got to. Do boxers nowadays still do lots of road work like the boxers of the old days? Yeah, they do. It's really an antiquated way to train, I think. Especially steady state running which a lot of guys do. They just run five miles a day. That was old school, right? Yeah, totally old school. Totally old school. And honestly, you still see it now in new school where I think short sprint work is probably probably better. Hit training. You know, it's good to have some over-distance training but I would say once a week and then I would say do much more sprint work because that would equate to throwing combinations. A smart guy like you, you got to see I want to know from your perspective what you think is kind of wrong with a lot of the training that you see in dieting and stuff like that. What do you see is most wrong in boxing right now with your training and nutrition? Probably the scariest thing that I see in terms of training and nutrition is obviously weight cuts but I see a lot of guys and I've been seeing this for years, they cut their water really early because they're afraid of the number on the scale. I see guys literally in sparring sessions who won't drink water in the corner. Right. Yeah, Adam just made a face like that's ridiculous. And it is. It is. But literally we're still in this day and age people are doing that. They're cutting their water a week out from a fight, two weeks out from a fight because they don't understand human physiology and the guy's getting hit in the head in a dehydrated state. Right. You know, a chance of brain injury and brain injury doesn't just happen in fights. That goes into sparring as well. We fight when we spar. You know, we just wear more gear but we're still trying to knock each other out. Yeah, do they still do the IV after the weigh-ins and all that? Some guys do. You'll find that much more in MMA athletes and that level where those guys do really, really aggressive weight cuts. Some boxers do. That's probably less common. Yeah. What about resistance training-wise? Like with weights, how does that incorporate it with boxers at a high level? How do you periodize like your entire approach with this? Yeah, we spoke about this earlier and it's like, it's really tough because a lot of times, so working with fighters and combat athletes, they're generally in a catabolic state, right? They're always trying to lose weight. If the scale goes up, I heard in a package, you're talking about your scale going down and freaking out. Fighters are the opposite. Scale goes up at any time. If I wake up with two pounds heavier, it's like, drink less or eat less and go for an extra run now because I'm two pounds heavier today. Versus other athletes where anabolism is key and you just want to grow and never be depleted. Fighters constantly live in that depleted state, so with a strength coach, working with a fighter is difficult. You might make all these gains during camp and then the last two weeks when they're cutting the weight, just throw out the window. Right. Guys kill themselves to make weight. I've seen great camps, five, six, seven, eight weeks of awesome work. Wow. They're ruined by five days of weight cut. When you're saying that makes me think it's probably so much more beneficial than to always kind of hang around pretty close to your weight where you're going to be fighting at because when you think about it, even if you put all this extra effort into building, well, if you put all this extra work into building 20 pounds of lean mass over the off season, you got to cut anyways. You put yourself in a catabolic state for that long of a period of time. Everything's going to fall off. Absolutely. And you'll be right back where you were, but you didn't have to do all that hard-ass work to put that on and put all that stress on your body to get there. You're doing a lot of training at a heavier body weight. You may be used to moving with a bigger body. You may have different timing. Then you cut all this weight. What does that do to a boxer's timing? So that's another pitfall that I see with guys is that, say for example, I was talking to MA earlier, but I used the weight class like the 17 years. So you got a guy at 170 who probably in the off season is like 205. Once he starts his camp, he's going to be in like the mid 90s or low 90s. And the bulk of his maybe sparring and training is going to be around like 84, 85. 185, right? So then he cuts down. He makes 170. And then he's going to refeed back up. And then the guy ends up stepping into the cage at 195 or 200. You're a different guy. Like I said, your body's different. Your body's going to move different. Your lungs are going to move different. The stresses on your body are going to feel different. Your timing's off. Your hand position, body position, everything. You have a different body. And you've done the bulk of your work, 10 or 15 pounds lighter. You're doing yourself a serious disservice. A lot of people don't realize, even 5 pounds. So being somebody who messes with his weight a lot, going up and down, competing with shows, I can see a huge difference with a 5 pound up or down. And you're a big guy. Right. And you're a big guy noticing 5 pounds. And imagine being like my weight, 155 pounds, 160 pounds, and then feeling with the 5 pounds is like, you know, it's a big deal. So you've actually helped other fighters know, we've made some kind of like, like comparison, like a Mike Dolce of like the MMA world. Like, is that something that you could see yourself sort of becoming in the boxing world? Yeah. I think I could do a lot of good because of my background and experience and my education. I actually got brought on by Daniel Jacobs in his fight versus the triple G who's one of the guys a monster. They fought at the garden. Danny is a guy that I fought on the same card with for years. And his team had reached out and said, if I had stuff like, would you want to come to camp? So I was actually hired as the in-camp nutritionist. I meal planned everything out helping make the weight. But also, I am an amateur chef. I like to cook. So I end up cooking every meal for him throughout the camp as well. So like, and we found this great synergy and he was amazed about how much food he was able to eat like throughout the camp, how good he felt, how his recovery was and how easily he still made weight. You know, and it was like, he's like, dude, you're part of the team here the whole time, right? Because he was like paranoid. Yeah. Well, more with his team. Danny trusted me 100%. He's like, we're good, right champ? I'm like, yeah, we're good. Okay. But his team is like, you know, Chris, when's that weight coming off? He's a little heavy. We're good. We're good. He's drinking two gallons of water a day. It's not going to be light. He'll make the weight. What kind of nutrition strategies do you use with an athlete like that in terms of, you know, proteins, fats, carbohydrates or even just the types of foods that you're feeding them? What are some rules that you use? Well, this is super variable, but, you know, I really got to, I like to weigh my guys in before they work out and after they work out and see what their, what their drift is during that time. Also get an idea of how much they drift overnight and get kind of an idea of what kind of sweater they are, what their sweat rate is, what their water loss rate is. You'll find with guys throughout camp, that'll change to as they get leaner and there's less body fat covering their muscle tissue and their muscle tissues actually, their lean tissues is at their highest. Their water intake is really important. And when it comes to, comes to actual, like, macronutrient distribution throughout camp, you need carbs. It's an explosive sport. There's a, there's a major endurance aspect to it. There's a lot of cardio involved in the training itself. So, carbs are something that I really will push up until, it's just the last couple weeks. And then as we get into like what I consider like the, the cut phase or the fight preparatory phase, I'll really put the training, which would be their sparring. Okay. They can, they can feel a little rough on a technique day, but I want them to feel good on their sparring day. So we'll focus on carving up the night before and immediately after. You even manipulate their carbs based off what you're doing for training. That's awesome. Absolutely. Being able to cycle their, their carbon take so they can kind of lean out some in between. The idea really is you got to, you got to assess the guy properly. You got to figure out what his body fat is possible and then pull enough water out of you to make to that, that weight. What are the carb sources that you tend to pick for your fighters? I keep it pretty, pretty simple. I'm big on, on oats, of course, oatmeal, whole grain bread, things like that. I'm a potato guy, but I have a lot of guys who are pasta guys. Potatoes, pastas, cereal, grains, granolas, tons of veggies, a lot of colors, really big on colors. And I've recently really got into nitrates that really help with recovery. Like beets? Beet juice, pomegranate, pomegranate, there's a lot of really, really cool research on pomegranate juice and pomegranate seed extract and how it vasodilates in a similar fashion to beet juice. So a lot of times I was using pomegranate use as a pre and then beet juice as a post for recovery. The pomegranate juice works faster than beet juice. So you got about a 30 minute window where it says to kind of open everything up. So I want those guys having those nutrients and those carbs in their system and the beet juice, again, open everything up, let's get recovery nutrition in, let's get the carbs and protein right away and get them to kind of recover and then go chill. Yeah, especially for high intensity type endurance type athletes, they've shown that these high nitrate foods have a performance boosting benefit. It's funny because I'll get messages from people, hey, should I be having beet juice before or pomegranate juice before my workouts? I'm like, what do your workouts look like? Yeah, you're not going to see anything from drinking something. Calm down, Zumba. Yeah, exactly. What about protein intake? I'm assuming you need an adequate amount of protein for recovery but too much protein may be counterproductive. What does that look like? Again, that's going to depend on the camp and where we're at in terms of the weight making stage and what preparation level we're at. Protein is important and it's kind of one of those things recovery aspect that's really important. I'll focus it more around their strength training days, around their sparring days with a really kind of getting beat down and recovery is going to be more important. Now, do you coach and help them with what is widely considered to be one of the most important parts of preparing yourself for competition, the mental aspect? Is that something that you work with people with as well? So that was a secondary job that Daniel's camp had, Jacob's camp like I'd seen what fighters go through during camp and Danny really trusted me in that regard as well. So we had a lot of personal time to spend and we got to talk about these kinds of things, from one from a technical aspect but also from that psychological mindset of getting ready for what we're about to do. So that becomes important and just hearing someone tell you that like we're in a good position right now and we're going right from someone who's done it is really satisfying gratifying or gives these guys a sense of calm where they'd be like alright we're doing everything right I don't have to worry about that. Yeah and any competition I've ever been in I have a real easy time training leading up to the competition I learned real quick that I would exhaust myself from the stress and anxiety of the upcoming competition and some of the first competitions I did I would be exhausted and fit than this because I got so tired how did you deal with that yourself going in did you have those kind of nerves and did you figure out strategies to deal with that? Absolutely so I was a big visualization guy I spend my camps at least a few minutes at least a few minutes a day and sometimes I would do more especially earlier in my career kind of spending like an hour or so really just laying I shut off the lights I shut the phone off everything don't leave I'm in my time walking into that ring because that's one of the scariest things in the world walking down the tunnel when you walk it out and you see 20,000 people you can't even see the people because the lights are like shining on you your music is blasting the music that you chose which you know now it's work it's time everything you've worked for is literally this moment and you're walking into this tunnel you're going into the unknown the ring is highlighted with lights and like that's where I'm going I'm going to meet the man that I've been training to destroy me for months and this is actually that moment what an adrenaline rush yeah bunch of drunk people screaming your name or the guy who screams fuck you you suck so like you've got to be able to just have tunnel vision like at that point and so when I when every time I've fought I've seen that for that night 10,000 times I've walked into that arena I've walked into that ring I've stepped through the ropes I pulled my robe off when they said my name I've touched gloves with this guy I've looked him in his eyes looked in his fucking soul and I've been there 10,000 times before I've ever gotten into the ring because I've spent that time laying in my bed getting horizontal feet crossed eyes closed I'm not napping I'm not sleeping but I'm kind of in that in-between state and just really running that on a reel and I will pick throughout camp at what point I'm going to talk about I think about I've even done like alright I'm in the limo on the way to the arena you know I'm getting out of the car with my team the cameras are in my face taking pictures they're asking for interviews you know I've seen that all before it happens and that really just helps with that sense of calmness and being prepared for Do you feel like you've practiced that so well that you can now like you feel like when you get into that position you're like yeah I've seen all this saw all that I knew I heard that I've seen that like have you gotten better and better at doing that like as you've gotten I've gotten better at getting into the place where what I'm thinking and doing has the positive effect that I'm looking for I think when I was younger I had to maybe run it through a lot more because I needed to kind of calm everything down block everything out and just like alright maybe like the 150th time alright now I actually see this clear where now it's like I can think about it a handful of times it's like alright I'm in my flow now and I'm ready to use this for a positive interaction Have you I want to know if there's certain things that you do to get into that mode like we've talked about on our show before using brain FM get me in that mindset so I can get into my flow state are there practices that you've put in place to do that Yeah I I don't talk much during like camp and getting ready for like even for that like I'm really preparing for that like as soon as my training session ends and I just kind of want to separate myself from interaction staying off my phone is big because that's a mind suck man that thing will you can get lost Especially if you read what people are saying about the fight and what they're saying about you I'm a therapy I really love candles I light things and incenses and things like that just to kind of get me to help relax and Epsom salt baths hot baths kind of just really just get my body to chill which can help my mind come out more I feel like everything else will melt away and then I'm left with what I really need to what I need to train at that point I feel like fighting because it is really if you really examine all sports they all are extensions of the original fighting for survival or fighting for resources and so it's the people have referred to all combat sports the purest of all sports has boxing kickboxing fighting has that set a different perspective for you when you go out into life or when you do other things has it changed things for you because I gotta imagine if you can handle visualization walking into an arena getting ready to fight ultimate stressful situation out in front of all these people does that change your perspective for everyday life absolutely if you have an important phone call or a big meeting or you're trying to get something off the ground you're going to be anxious you're going to have anxieties you're going to have what about this what about that it's taught me to be an opportunist where in a ring an opportunity presents itself you don't you react and you take it and it's kind of a similar way when I deal with in business or talking to people it's like an opportunity will present itself because of the way I need to get this guy to understand what I'm trying to do finding that bridge and that commonality is you take an advantage of an opportunity you see that opportunity and you go you take that critical distance line and you cross it and I think that's something that I can take from my fight career into the real world yeah I think again it's just it's gotta change your perspective on things it's almost like oh I love that dude yeah we talk to you know obstacle course racers for example and they'll be like they're doing that race like I went into the meeting on Monday and I was like not a big deal because I just I almost died right now on this particular race or you know if you just had a fight I remember even doing that and when I would train you know just for fun in jujitsu I'd walk around and just felt very comfortable walk around because I'd just done some grappling fights or whatever it's amazing how many things that we don't do out of fear because we're afraid we're gonna fail right away I feel like so many people get into that game and then I gotta figure it all out before I even think about taking a chance and I don't know I have the same type of mentality where I'll just see an opportunity I'm gonna do it learn from it no matter what it's an opportunity for growth whether it succeeds or fails I mean I think too many people procrastinate on shit you have any favorite boxers from when you were a kid or anyone that you idolize growing up absolutely I mean you know my grandfather telling me about Alexis Sarguello the explosive thin man from Nicaragua you know and then I remember guys even personally I must have watched Mike Tyson of course anybody was alive in the 90's but Oscar De La Hoya was the guy that I was like this is the guy he could get off camera he could smile he was a crossover star people loved him and then in the ring he was a killer and he was technically super sound but also had that killer instinct and he brought it that's the guy the crossover star how would you say your style if you were to say did you emulate anybody's style so I've been told I have a couple different guys in there there were certain aspects of me with my jab that were like De La Hoya but I'm a lot more of a level changer I've always been told I kind of fight like an east coast black guy in terms of the rhythmic and I move and change levels and I'm kind of slick my nickname when I was a kid was smooth when I would fight I was like literally a teenager I was like so smooth I've been so one really old guy that people kind of say Willie Pep who was a guy who was like a defensive wizard and change levels there's a legend that he won a round without throwing a punch because he was so good defensively making guys miss that he made them look terrible and didn't even throw a punch for whatever that was a pissing I'm so bad the history of boxing is fascinating I mean boxing in its early days was crazy like they didn't stop a fight until you died you could stand over the guy while he was getting off the ground back then so in those big fights when you would drop a guy you were allowed to stand over him for him to get up and they would go on for rounds and rounds they didn't have ends 15 rounds a lot they didn't have that they had 100 rounds but this is true they were actual fights like that but I I love watching some of the greats because I feel like they were trailblazers for some of the newer styles that you see like Muhammad Ali the way he boxed and danced and moved he set up a whole generation of boxing stuff and of course right now we're watching all this hype with Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather and all the hype that they do behind it Muhammad Ali kind of wrote the book on that like before him nobody really fucking talked shit like that exactly the Louisville lip that was his nickname for a reason he had the gift to gab and he would talk these fights up that was where the promotion of these fights really came but even Muhammad Ali the great was influenced by guys like Sugar Ray Robinson and by Joe Lewis Joe Lewis you said like that transitional style of fighting Joe was like nobody else back then he was a good athlete he was a killer puncher he knocked everybody out very technical very technical as well so it was like you had this technical athlete and it was the first time we ever really seen that and then you got a guy like Sugar Ray Robinson who could punch going forward punch going backward had great technique had a great chin had an awesome gas tank had five different weight classes he literally was virtuoso could do it all and then Ali comes in and that's when we had the first like super athlete the way that guy was able to move at 210 pounds his accuracy was just insane they say it wasn't a hard puncher but he hit you he hit you so perfectly that he put you he put you out timing is a motherfucker man people don't realize how big of a difference timing makes in your power oh absolutely you know watching MMA you watch the Diaz brothers and it looks like they're not hitting that hard they're pushing people up because they're they're timing and accuracy is so good they score knockouts and they lump people's faces up they're not playing pity pad out there yeah no I was a big of course Rocky Marciano fan because I'm Italian but you know he that's obvious he fought Joe Lewis when Joe Lewis was way past his prime and he beat Joe Lewis and he cried afterwards that was his idol he was a shelve a man at that point he needed the money his taxes yeah absolutely and then you know you've got like George Forman another great great fighter watch probably one of the hardest punchers of all time gave Muhammad Ali a tough fight Frazier who of course beat Ali a couple times you put Frazier and Forman in the ring and Forman murdered him yeah why what is it about styles that changes the dynamics of a fight that's what's so great about about the sports he's like alright well George Forman completely starts Joe Frazier twice and they're fighting Ali and Ali had triple time wars with you know they fought three times at wars with Joe Frazier it's like alright well Forman's gonna beat him and then they go out there and Ali wins a war of attrition lets him beat on him and knocks him out it's like that's that's the story lines in boxing that are incredible when you have that stylistic match up you know everyone said to me after a pack-out fight they were like what's gonna happen to him and Floyd Floyd's gonna win easy you just lost him how could you say that I'm like it's styles and then many well just because of the way their styles match up it's just one of those things so you think you would've done better against Floyd I think so I think with his his high shoulder roll defense fighting someone long and tall would've always given trouble I said Tommy Hearns would beat Floyd up where I think Floyd would probably beat Sugar Ray Leonard you know he would be able to slow things down enough and kind of pick and go tick for attack but Tommy he could hit you from across the ring he was a six foot one welterweight you know I think so this stuff that shoulder roll defense not gonna work because how common is it in with the promoters and the people setting these fights up where they avoid fights that they know stylistically or not is that common is it so when I talk to like people who don't really know the boxing world I think of the promoters as almost like record labels and they get artists the talent and they're gonna protect their guys so if they their matchmakers are the best in the world at eyeing fights and matchups and they'll be like it's not gonna it's not or they test them early and say he has trouble with these kinds of guys we're gonna kind of avoid those kind of guys at the top level you know it's like Manny has trouble with like he had trouble with Juan Manuel Marquez because he's a good counter puncher so like they've been fighting three times because Manny's a beast and fights everyone but like they're the company didn't really like that fight and they also didn't like the Floyd fight I'd heard that because of the style I feel like there's a boring fight either so it's kind of a delicate a delicate balance you've got it you got to test your guy but he's still got to win you know so you want to put him in tough but like it's still a fight that he's gonna come out on top of and you're right it's an absolute science and these matchmakers they're basically handicappers and they can they can see things they've studied the game so long they can they can catch little movements and what not that alright this this is this is gonna be end of this fight and this is how it's gonna go it's crazy I had a client that was an old boxer for me and we were talking about Mike Tyson and he said he said Mike Tyson had such good balance he could knock you out from anywhere but he had no balance going backwards so you just keep pushing him back with the double jab and you throw his balance off and that's what Buster Douglas did that's exactly what Douglas did and when he explained it to me and then I watched fights later on I was like holy shit like you don't realize the kind of science that goes into at this level of fighting it's a chess match absolutely yeah it's a chess match but that's boxing it's called the sweet science for a reason you said it's science you know and it's such an old sport and people have been working on this for so long and you have two weapons it's not four or eight it's two are there guys in the business that are known for this like for helping fighters like you like in that in the science of it and like breaking it down like a chess board the best the best trainers in the world the guys that really analyze you know you got guys like Stuart I think he was one of the best that we've seen in a long time but then you've got the guys like like even Freddie Roach you know who found Manny and turned him into an absolute icon by matching up their style and the weight I think the synergy that those two had as a coach and a fighter I don't think without Manny I don't think Freddie would have been as big as he was or is and without Freddie I don't think Manny was it was just a perfect matchup so looking ahead what are we looking at as soon as possible I stayed in great shape you know I needed some time off get my body in the right place you know in terms of injuries and being healthy also getting my mind in the right place I had a my run was fast and furious you know I literally didn't even look back I was asking oh it's been like I haven't even looked back yet I haven't literally not looked in the rear view this whole time because I've just been going and going I've had time to reflect so I'm just looking I'm really excited to kickboxing you mentioned little so yeah I always told myself I've been saying it I've had my my careers planned out since I was a teenager I said I was going to be a world champion kickboxing I was going to do it two times I was going to do two weight classes I was going to do it in two different organizations and one of which had to be the ISK which is the university recognized world title and kickboxing so I did that and then I said I was going to go to boxing and then I was going to win a world title that drive yeah I still got that itch and I still got it so but yeah but I've always said I want to come back and have a kickboxing fight at least one because those are my roots I still love the sport I said it earlier I didn't leave it because I didn't like it I left it because of other opportunities being an opportunist but I think there's still a place for me anyone in particular that you want to fight right now it's hard to say that because the landscape changes so much especially the weight classes that I'm in now it's really kind of changing pretty drastically but I mean lay out the landscape for us a little bit who's who right now in that weight class there's the waltz weight division which is 147 which are my last couple fights have been I'm a world champion at 140 so I'm actually moving back down to the 140s to go back to kind of I was undefeated world champion there and then I moved up for the Paco fight and kind of stayed up there because of certain opportunities and money fights that were available now I want to go back and win another world title you know and I think but 47 is funny because you've got these megafights the many Pacquiao's the Mayweathers to see a lot of money potential there and they're like they don't even need weight classes they fight wherever when I fought Manning we fought at 144 that's not even a weight class but he's that kind of guy that they can tell you where you're going to fight Floyd's fighting McGregor at 54 Floyd's not a 54 boundary he's a 47 powder but those kind of guys it's all about the money at that point I think you can fight anywhere so like those the money's usually at the 47s my last opponent this kid Errol Spence he's a monster you know he ended up going and knocking out the pretty tough world champion Kell Brook over in England he's there but I see him moving up there's a couple other guys in the 40s that kind of are transitioning weight classes guys grow out of weight classes guys get older guys chase money and they'll leave so a lot of times they can leave gaps and holes so take you to buy that stuff does it change that fast I mean is it I mean in six months from now it could be a whole different oh wow think about Manny Pacquiao he just lost to Jeff Horn who's no one there has ever heard of you know and like everybody wanted the Pacquiao fight it's like now it's like you don't really want that you know and that just happened that was an overnight thing it's like well Pacquiao didn't look so good yesterday hero today zero happens very quickly wow what have you done for me lately you know about it well I know you got to catch a flight here man but it was awesome awesome having you on the show brother yeah thanks guys I appreciate it excellent what about me you two friends yeah you two you handsome you handsome fellow you're a tough guy check this out go to mindpumpmedia.com register yourself for 30 days of coaching for free also if you go to YouTube you can check out our channel Mind Pump TV we post a new video every single day lastly Instagram find us there Mind Pump Media my page is Mind Pump Sal Adam is Mind Pump Adam and Justin is Mind Pump Justin alright Mind Pump fans so there's a few podcasts that we like to listen to regularly not very many podcasts but there's a few in particular one of them is the Art of Charm some of the best interviews and content that I found in the podcast world one episode in particular was pretty damn awesome I think all of you should listen to it if you're into listening to the compelling podcasting this was podcast number 633 Art of Charm interviewed Jack Barski who's this KGB spy in America so he's implanted in America from Soviet Union but then he ends up that he loves America so much that he switched over to our side it's a very compelling story I'm actually here right now with Jordan from the Art of Charm he's the host Jordan what was it like interviewing Jack Barski? this guy was super cool man he's obviously he's pretty old now but this is a guy who studies in East Germany grows up there ends up going to Moscow can't tell his family or friends what he's doing leaves his family behind his wife and kid comes to America steals a dead baby's identity embeds himself at this company this insurance company he's working on computer stuff and then after a while he just realizes spying for the Soviet Union is just such a waste so he's like screw it I'm staying here he has he gets married has another kid and eventually the Soviet Union disintegrates and he's just like cool nobody has any idea what's going on well fast forward a few years later the FBI catches up with him and he ends up making friends with the FBI agent not going to prison helping the FBI with catching KGB spies and he just unloads this whole story on this episode of The Art of Charm it's a two-part episode he talks about how we recruit spies how the KGB was recruiting him what spies need to know all this human behavior reading stuff super super interesting episode two-parter on AOC which we never do there's tons of stuff this guy could talk for days I swear to God Jordan you interview like the coolest people everywhere that's why I love your podcast so much where can people find you guys sure so you're already listening to a podcast just search for The Art of Charm in whatever podcast app or just go to TheArtofCharm.com and you can find all the shows there thanks Jordan thank you the RGB Superbundle includes Maths Anabolic Maths Performance and Maths Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with 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