 Well, we say that she decided not to, but in reality she is carrying out her father's will. Because she knows that Votan loves Zygmunt. She has learned to love Zygmunt herself through what she has learned from Votan. So she approaches this with a heavy heart to begin with, because she knows that in reality Votan doesn't really want to kill Zygmunt. But coming from this world of these immortal gods, Brunhilde has never seen love. She's never experienced love. She certainly has never seen it between Votan and Fricka. That might be an understatement. But in any event, it touches something in her, and it is the pivotal moment, I believe, and that's maybe because I'm a soprano singing Brunhilde, that changes the course of the ring cycle. And so she decides from observing this relationship and the fact that he is going to pass up seeing Votan again. He's going to pass up seeing these other fallen heroes and the fair maidens that are promised to him for this woman. And even that he would sacrifice her life before going on with Brunhilde. And that stirs something in her. And she makes a decision to go against her father's will. And there are horrific circumstances as a result of this decision. But it's also part of the beginning of what makes her such a courageous and fantastic character. Pierre? Well, she has known love because the love of her father towards her and Vajraversa is very important because that's the major theme of the monologue of the second act. But not a romantic love. It's not a romantic love, but it's the best love, the most lasting, depending on the father you have, of course. Depending on the father. But I think in this case it was, it is a genuine relationship, which is anywhere portrayed by Vajra in a very, as a very honest relationship in the second act. So I think that, of course, in the third act she argues with her father. She gives her arguments, he gives his. And in fact, I think what the whole ring tries to show is that in spite of the fact that the gods may invent a series of robots or figures that they think they can manipulate or predict the behavior of, everything from beginning to end rolls into one failure, rolling into the other, rolling into the other, to the end of the ring. And I think that's kind of the main argument that, in a way, I don't think Vajra believes in the robot, but he's demonstrating, in fact the opposite, that he doesn't believe in the robot but the human beings are flawed and that we will never achieve perfection because upstairs or downstairs we are prone to the same psychological constrictions and paradoxes and contradictions. That's what I, personally that's how I've experienced the ring as a piece. I've always gone back, I've been fascinated for 40 years by the myth of the Golem, which is, of course, a medieval Jewish myth from Prada, in a way that I've also participated in the making of an opera about the Golem. I'm really very interested in this theme and I think I've used it as an inspiration also in, I mean the Golem is precisely that, it is a failure. It is about the humanity of the Maharal, the rabbi who creates it and it's about the human flaws both of the creator and the created. It's always helped me very much as a kind of compass in working on the ring, also on Pasifal and Lohengrin, which are also about figure, artificial figures that are pseudo-human, that are playing a role in the story. So I think personally that the ring is about not believing in a saviour, it's trying to come to terms with the inevitable mistakes we make and we are going to make. And certainly true, isn't it that the passage that we just saw, her decision, is the contribution she makes to the twilight of the gods, because she is defying her father and as a result of that, Votan admits in the great duet that he is, what does he call himself, an unseligan avigan, an unhappy immortal and that now the authority of the gods has now been usurped. And it really begins with her decision here. Yes, it may be the best of laughs, but it's a very unequal laugh. She is at the beginning of the act, Votan's will, she's identical with him really. This is the scene in which she begins to emancipate, this is not the end of her way, but this is the moment when she begins to emancipate herself from him, this is one thing. The other is what you were talking about. This is the moment when she discovers that there is something beyond the Valhalla, that there is a certain way of being in the world that is not available to the gods. And this is a great discovery which transforms her from a goddess into a human being. And I think that has to do with limitation and part of what we were talking about before, I think part of the human experience, but also the experience of love, desire first and love is the experience of limits. I mean, it's always, it's precisely because we die that we are human. I can't conceive of a humanity without the notion of limit and I can't conceive. I mean, I think all of the history of poetry, the history of the novel and is about love and love is always about the limit. It's always trying to get across the limit. It's the danger of the limit. Even in Tristan and Isolde, in the medieval story, there's always a notion of obstacle and there's a wonderful book called Love in the Western World by Denis de Rougement where he explains that in essence, really, the history of Western culture is the history of this obstacle and this transcendence that is always a flirtation with death because this flirtation, this coming close, this obsession with death as a sort of ecstasy of blurring the limits, of eliminating the limit. We want to eliminate the limit, therefore, in this passionate impulse, behind the impulse, the life impulse that there's a desire, there is also a death wish which is both, I think the going through the limit, the transgression of the limit is both at the same time. I can't conceive of this, I think what you're saying in terms of her transformation is also her witnessing this limitation which she perhaps doesn't know before and it's so much part of our experience here, it's part of every, it's part of our experiences in terms of defining who we are as humans but it's part of even of our wanting to come out of ourselves, to come out of the limit ourselves, to meet the limit of somebody else and perhaps in the dream to transcend this limit, we have this idea of God, of love, what a lapsus, that can then be resolved in this sort of fantasy of deathlessness which in fact can only come to us if we dissolve completely. So there's the end dissolution of course, dissolution is ecstasy but the dissolution only comes if we go beyond the limit so it always implies the notion of a limit. Well in a couple of decades when we have a pill or an injection you can take that will reverse aging and let you live indefinitely at the age that you choose, we will find that almost everyone on earth prefers to take this pill then to get old and die, not everyone but almost everyone and we will then find there are other limits that we're coming up against. It's not the case, we surmount many limits that squirrels encounter, however we've encountered our own limits which squirrels cannot imagine and a superhuman AI may not die, an upgrade human may not die and they may not have a limit of seven plus or minus two items in their short term memory, they may have overcome many, many limits that plague us, they may not get sick and old, they may even be able to fuse minds with each other into a single combined mind if they want to rather than communicating by touch and language. On the other hand that doesn't apply, they will be beyond all limits, the general process you describe of finding limits and challenges and then achieving satisfaction by overcoming these challenges. But that's essentially human and what you described, it strikes me as essentially inhuman so it would be another kind of world that is difficult to conceive of just as the dog looking at equations of the cosmos or inflationary cosmology can't quite understand it, I'm not sure we're able to completely compete.