 Hi, everyone. Welcome. This is Sonali. Thank you all for carving out some time for attending today's webinar on the part one of the BX learning series in West scale and value. To all the attendees out there, please type in any questions you might have in the Q&A section and we'll try to answer as many as possible at the end of the session. I would now like to introduce our speaker. As the chairman of the franchise India group, he is widely admired for his non-confirmist operating style, direct and to the point advice and vigorous marketing tactics and strategy. He sits on the boards of several organizations and has been retained by several private equity funds. He has shared several global business forums on franchising and retail in India, US, Australia, Russia, Paris and London. In the spirit of sharing his thoughts, he has authored three best selling titles on subjects dear to his heart and central to his business. These include franchising, the science of producing success, take charge, building an entrepreneur mindset and it takes two to tango, achieving customer connect in shapeshifting India. Recognizing that more and more people in India are investing into active businesses and taking on the entrepreneurial path, he wants to serve this community better as a growth specialist helping entrepreneurs through knowledge and service on all aspects of buying, setting up and growing the business. With that being said, I would now like to welcome Mr. Gaurav Mada. Thank you, Sonali. Good afternoon friends and welcome to, as Sonali said, the first series of, you know, this we call it investing series and this would be about three different topics which we will bring every week. One is on investments and which is today. We will talk about how you should look at investments and different asset classes and so on so forth. A week on week we will go on and talk about different assets and where you should look after and what kind of, you know, those and don'ts are for the investment. Second is a series going to be on scaling the businesses and how you scale your investments. And third is how do you build value. So between investment, scaling up and building value will divide the series and, and every week we'll have one topic been done. So today is about investment. And, you know, I'll give you pieces of learnings which have come from a lot of knowledge base which we have gathered over the years, and also some of my own learnings on investment. So we will do that. And if you have any questions in the meantime, you can continue to ask in your Q&A box. So let's set some perspective first on investment and try to set some foundation. What kind of investors we see around, you know, in the space, we see two types of investors. One are what we call active and passive and this is what we discussed. To me, first starting point is there's nothing like passive. It's all active. You know, you are actively investing in, but you can be an operator and non operator. That should be the difference, you know, so it should not be that whenever you're looking to invest, you should never think like that. There is something like what we call a passive investment. There's nothing like a passive investment should be always active investments. And, and this only difference you can have in investments is that are you operating that investment or somebody else is operating for you. And I've divided this investors into further three parts, you know, and what we call the three f's of being investors. First is which we call the firm investors. And these firm investors are normally people who are well researched and they're very asset focused. So they would not do any other thing. They were very, very researched. They're deep coming from that domain. They understand that domain very well and they're very clearly going after that particular asset. So I've seen people have years and years, decades and decades invested only in equity. They would only invest in equity. There are people who invest into property. They would just invest into property. That's where the money went away. Well, well researched people if you give them other options, they will not go through that because they know how to make money in that particular thing. They're firm investors. Second are more flexible investors and this asset class is growing and especially professionals are like that. They always dare to diversify their risk. They try to diversify their investment class. They will put some money in the financial investment. They put some money in property and some other asset classes also. These are more flexible. But the third one, which I am seeing these days, a lot of them, which are what I call the freestyle investors. These freestyles are very impulsive, very high risk takers. They are normally first movers and sometimes they make a lot of wealth just because of their first mover advantage. So between these three kind of investors we'll find, one will find very firm, second are flexible and third are very freestyle investors. So there is a very entire discussion I will do today. And we will start with the first part, which means anytime you're looking to invest what we should look at. So I will start with the quote from the greatest author in the investment space. Benjamin and he wrote that the investment is a knowledge which pays the best interest. The knowledge investment in knowledge pays the best interest. When it comes to investing nothing will pay off more than educating yourself. So fundamental of any investment is that unless and until you're educating regularly yourself on on wherever asset class you're investing on or a particular business you're investing on that would pay. So first, a part to the discussion today is how do you really before you even start investing, how do you really decide where you want to go what kind of investment you want to do. And that starts with what we call your life and your financial goals. You know, sometimes people make financial goals, which is good to make but your life goals will not marry with it. So unless and until you marry your life goals and your financial goals together, then only the real results would come. So how do you do that? I mean, I feel that one of the things I really follow is what I call smart goals and smart goals are very specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and timely. So how do you design your smart goals? How do you design your structure? But let's before that we need to ask a lot of questions to ourselves before you and make a choice of investment. What stage you are in your life? You know, and I've seen my thinking myself I started my business at age of about 20, started making money I don't know how much was that business, but I was started making money, if that was to be called a business. And my thinking was very different at that time, and in 30s were very, very different now in late 40s is a very different. And I'm sure it would change even five years from now my thinking would change. So you need to really first ask yourself what stage you are in your life and how this next 10 years of your life goals and your financial goals are going to marry. What is there going to be? So if you only do life goals or if you do only financial goals doesn't work. It has to marry with each other. What is your requirement? What is your life requirement? What do you see what happening? What are the critical things coming in next five years, 10 years with you? And how are you going to balance that? What is your cash flow requirement next 10 years and each be your cash where you need cash, which are the big movements will come in and when they're expected to come in and where you would need cash. Say if you have a say at a particular stage you have somebody to get married and you need maybe two crores at that time, and where is that liquidity going to come from? And at that stage what are you going to see and how your exits would come from your investments and so on. What is the meaning of wealth creation for you? You know, what is a lot of people talk about wealth creation but they cannot put a dot to it. They don't know what is the real wealth. What is the number? It's very difficult at times for investors to even put a number to it. You know why we talk about it but we don't have a definite number. First you need to really start with putting that number in your mind and that's where you should be following that. What is the current savings you have and current liabilities you have and how it is balanced between these two? Any investment you currently have and will continue to take your attention or need further investments. You know one of the areas which I found is that when you start investing fresh into something, you forget about what we already invested on. And they also have a lot of requirements both in terms of your time and in terms of the future investments. So unless you evaluate where you are at this stage currently, then you make a decision for making a new investment. First evaluate deep down your current investments and what kind of commitment these investments are asking for. What is your fallback capital? Which means that if the business for reasons doesn't do well or the investment which you have invested and not done well or it is not giving you adequate exit. You know sometimes you are parked in an investment and like these days what is happening with property. A lot of people have made investments in land banks and things that and they are not able to liquidate. So that they are asset rich cash poor and so sometimes in their other businesses when they have urgency they need to get the money back they are not able to do that. And I have seen a lot of industrialists, a lot of business houses failing miserably because they were always asset rich, but the asset was not able to liquidate at a time they needed. So their businesses became, you know, they dried, they needed cash flows, they needed more money that money was not able to come because all that money they took out and parked into a lot of land bank assets and so forth. So where is your fallback capital, your savings and have you measured that and especially for a lot of these startups professionals, they take a very big risk when they start investing right so they put all their savings. And sometimes they come out of that professional life and and start and like startups, a lot of colleges, you know, students come out of directly from college and start an enterprise for reasons that doesn't do it. What is their fallback plan, what where are they going to go, can they go back to their careers and start the careers back with their job opportunity would be available at that time or not available that all has to be calculated. And so you need to really know that what is your fallback capital or fallback plan, which is available. What you will bring in the investment outside your capital and the second most contribution thing you would like to do, I'll explain that. What happens, you know, always we try to whenever we try to do business, so we only think about what kind of capital we want to deploy. I think capital you keep it on the side, ask yourself, what is the second most important thing you bring it to that asset or to that business. Sometimes it is your skill, it is sometimes your experience in the industry, or whatever it is, what is the second most important thing, which you will bring apart from the capital in your investment. And that term sometimes is the biggest driver for this, for example, me at my level, I mean I always felt that I was best at broken or deal structuring or business advisory, that was my strong skill. So anything I have done in is around it, I've always been very successful, my investments have been successful, but a lot of times I've invested same capital into businesses which didn't marry with my skill. And that was not so successful. So it is very important that you find out which is the second most important thing you are bringing after the capital into your investment. It can be your time, somebody people bring in absolute 365 days time, sometimes you bring in a lot of knowledge base and capability or understanding your. So whatever skills that you have or whatever second most important thing you have to me to bring that. Now we go down to, so how do you marry your, how do you manage your financial goals, how do you define your financial goals, it's also very important because it's a very unending process, you know, what I call how do you keep the balance between competing and conflicting priorities, you know, so try to understand again, you know, you have a lot of competing priorities, which will come to the same investment you're doing, and also come some conflicting how do you create a balance between these two. And also, how do you balance between what I call the income generation and not building a long term value. So sometimes income is your monthly cash flows and your returns which are coming in which would pay your bills and continue to do that. Sometimes we get too focused on that we don't know where is the real answer for a long term value being created. And also dividing your financial structure into short term goals, short term goals would mean that how your current requirements which would be service one then mid prime goals, mid time goals also are very important that how do you invest and sometimes in a short term mid time, you also look at some kind of exit, and then reinvest into some other assets or whatever business you want to do. And a long term, I think one should have a strategy that which is what is five to 10 year cycle, or what is the investments you're doing in the same investment you can portion out at all. You can also look at short term cycles, you can also look at a mid term cycles, and there should be always a plan for a for a long term structure. Now let's talk about how do you really balance between what I call three things you know what is called saving cash flow and future investment. Now this I will explain you a little more in detail and this I have passed through my own experiences. Sometimes when you start early and I've seen this in startups. They any money comes in, they quickly want to buy a lot of things you know they want to buy it goes into the savings you know they want to buy the apartment they want to buy this. And so they sometimes eat into the cash flows also. And they, the companies don't survive or companies start passing through a cash flow problems. So, so you need to really divide any kind of investment you do very clearly what portion you will give it to your savings, what portion you will give it to continue to have your cash flows being healthy. And third, which is equally important is that what kind of money you will park on the side to recapitalize your business or to bring future investments. I have seen a very successful entrepreneurs business owners who do the first two right, because first two are always in their control, and they are able to do that they balance between their savings and cash flows, but they are never having enough capital to look at the opportunity when it comes. So a lot of times you miss opportunities, because you never have the kind of capital being earmarked for you to look at opportunities coming from outside. And you see currently, which I admire with the company like alliance. Look, what he's trying to do at this stage he's trying to unlock his equity, bring the company back in the terms of his building his chest on one side he's writing office debt, because he doesn't want the cost of capital going, and he making the company more healthier. On other side, we are hearing a news that he might be on the acquisition side. So this guy is a multiplier, you know what he's trying to on one side, trying to, you know, make the company's health good because he's taken entire cost of capital out. There's no debt available on reliance now. On one side he's actively unlocking so that he can bring a lot of reserves back because he knows there is a buy time coming and a buy time he needs to pull up his chest up so that he will have a lot of opportunities which would come underpriced at this stage where he can do that. And now he's in market and also actively looking at acquisition. So now you see, from this time to maybe next year, reliance would be up there for a lot of acquisition because he's built his chest up. And the company's healthy is no Lord, he has no debt sitting there, so he can survive so. So this is a very interesting time structures, how do you really put your savings, how do you put your cash flows, and how do you continue to build your chest up, wherever the opportunities keep coming in, you can put that structure. So this is something which is very important and, and finally you have to really place your this financial goal into what I call three, three groups, one is what they call alignment. How is it aligned with your, your life goals, how it is aligned with your growth, very important, you need to really see is this year on your growth for next 10 years or 15 years or 20 years. And what is your exposure, how much you're exposing yourself, you know, and if you are able to balance between these three things alignment with your life goals, growth cycles, which you can really clearly define and run, and third is exposure. Now, coming down to the second part, so first we really discussed on on, you know, what what should be the structure in terms of your life and financial goals. Now we will talk about how to research an asset, because from next episode we will talk about a particular asset and we go deep down into that but I'll give you now some tools of if you are investing, how do you research an asset. So researching an asset is first starting with understanding the business model itself I'm not talking more on the business but you can do the same thing on equity you can do in other investments, even real estate or any other investments which we are. And in the episodes coming in, we will talk about different asset class, which you can choose to invest. So first is a business model and business model can be further will break into three parts. One, what I call master what matters which is the micro economics of that business model. And that's very, very important to understand. You know, I'll tell you a story when one of the leading industrialists used to run very large company and I asked him this question. Once, you know, that why don't you invest into stock he had raised some money and the money was lying in the bank and he was, you know, lying idle at that time and it was just because he just raised that money and I gave him a suggestion that why don't you put the money because it's lying idle at this stage in some market and and some returns can be expected and markets were doing very well at that time. So he answered to me that I have raised this money because I only invest into businesses I know best and I know my own business best and I will only invest in my business. So which is very important unless and until you know where you invest in. That's why people read these and listen to these masters who talk about markets and so on for and they are never able to make the same kind of money that other people are making. Why they are not able to do that because they don't know what they're just doing it because others are telling them to do so unless and until you master the business value you understand where you you are investing you have actually gone through and you have invested the micro economics of that business. It will be very difficult you will be able to make gain out of that. Second, understand the growth which we talked about earlier also but growth, which is measurable, predictable and sustainable. How your growth would be measurable, predictable and sustainable, and that's very very important. Sometimes you are in the growth we clearly see a growth but we are not able to put some predictability into that. And now these days there is a bigger issue which is coming from a sustainability of this or a sustainability of enterprises. So you need to really define that growth in different parameters and you can go as deep as possible. And third, you should do a very strong market analysis market analysis also is done on a macro analysis and a micro market analysis. Because now these days particularly in this COVID era, we are generalizing situations. Delhi is very different to behaving today to what Bihar is behaving. So unless and until we understand which part of the world we are in, what is happening in our micro market, what is happening in a macro market. And macro market is about world economy, India economy, even a state economy but micro markets is your own city or markets you want to operate and work on that. So fundamentally first do your business model analysis and that should come with a strong business intelligence and that business intelligence should tell you that is it worth looking at the category or looking at the asset. Second, what is influencing this business you're choosing or asset you're choosing, right? What are the influences around and influences can be positive influences, it can be negative influences, it can be radical influences now these days. Even the consumer behavior can absolutely change like retail, retail had a very radical change in the consumer behavior. Consumer started, you know, asking more convenience and convenience came from home delivery and then the delivery company started coming. A lot of people were eyes shut, they were not able to see that big consumer change happening. And always whenever you look at, especially in businesses or even in passive investments doing in terms of stock market or the companies you're investing, continue to see the consumer insights. Consumer insights are the largest behavior trend which would impact the businesses. And if you are seeing a strong change in that happening and strong change in other markets you've seen this would all happen here. So you need to really change your investment cycle and look at changes and sometimes companies delay that understanding that and if they delay that understanding it can actually put, you know, adversely affect the investor money. And so you need to really see what is happening on the on this changes on the net least in the consumer insight. Finally understand the risk and risk, which means what is the internal risks and what are the external risks and how you marry with reward. You know, I have been particularly in our business in franchising. We see a lot of people who come and I even tell them very high risk situation, but they still go out and invest because they know the reward is equally high. There are investors who made their choices, because they understand and they're able to see that sometimes they are on a high reward kind of mindset. So they also don't mind taking high risk. So but one has to really do this balance of risk and reward, especially if you are investing into a business then the you need to really see what is our internal risks you are carrying internal risk can be a lot of things now. These days, businesses are very vulnerable and they have a lot of risk. They have security risk. They have data risk. They have intellectual property risk. They have a lot of other risk. They have even internal team members who became their competition as a risk. Similarly, you have external risk which comes from cost, you know, your competition, your customer change, behavior change. A lot of risks are there in the in the business. I personally feel that in last 26, 27 years of my running business, the last five, six years have changed drastically. I think risk is becoming a very strong part of your planning structure. If you're not planning in depth, you will not be able to do that. Now let's go into the stage where we need to really and once we have understood that this is how the businesses and and they would have their three things. As I said, just be revised this situation. How do you research on an asset research on asset research on business model research on what is influencing and what is the risk on that. Now let's go into my part on in terms of how do you evaluate a business decision or an investment decision. How do you evaluate if you want to invest in first build a case and case would be again what I call O2C. You know what means that anytime when you're making a decision to invest, you are extremely optimistic. When you're optimistic, then you don't want to listen to a lot of things which are coming to you. You're rather adverse. You become a shield that you don't want to look at it. So unless and until you shift your mind from being optimistic to a critic and continue to change the rules, you will not be able to build a strong case of your investment. So first try to do this what I call O2C optimistic to a critic or vice versa. So you need to while every investment you will do, you have to be extremely optimistic about the investment. But the best critic also comes inside you. So which is telling you a lot of things, but we're not listening. So unless and until we build the case, we'll not be able to do that. Second investment forecast cycle of reinvestment is very important. And I explain you later. Fundamentally, unless you sometimes we get into an investment and which we forecast the initial investment, but we don't know what is a cycle of investments coming for this. And that's something which you need to forecast. What would you need money after one year, two year, three year, would you have to fuel it up and what kind of cycle of investment is just coming in unless and until that is very defined. Don't make a decision on investment. Third is making a full business plan and change cycle. You know how the business is going to evolve businesses like humans, you know, so they keep evolving right. So they have to breathe they have to change what is a change cycle. When do you think the changes have to become what are these changes. For you know, this is where I have realized that most of the investments have been, you know, not been so fruitful because people were either adequately not adequately capitalized they were under capitalized, and they did not the complete investment cycle. So they didn't do complete investment cycles or businesses or or the any investment you've done was not doing this. You see a lot of projects in the real estate not being completed, because there was never a closure on the on the on the capital required. So a lot of people attempt the businesses they feel that the market would be bullish and markets are not bullish. They were not able to complete the projects and hence these instruments are all wasted and future people who invested with them has also visited the investments, or they would have to take a haircut. So capitalization is very, very important you need to really define the kind of monies which are required, and especially in these times you will find only the fit companies would come out and all the other companies will not be able to do that. Fifth is your do your legal and commercial due diligence in terms of if you're if you're getting into any investment, it might be in a real estate or a financial investment or buying the business. You need to do a lot of your legal study and legal advice, and then only make that I think and finally present your investment case to what I call your personal advisor. And the personal advisors are people who are not so influenced by you, they can also come with their own viewpoint. And that's why I call it a personal board. Sometimes you only go to your absolute first family and they are normally think or are influenced by you. And so don't go to them go to your personal board and this should be credible people who you should present your business plan or you think that you're planning to invest in that and hear from them. And, and then only do that so I will repeat it for everybody build your case, do your investment forecast, make a strong business plan with a change cycle, capitalization, legal and commercial advice, and also present it to your personal board. Now, let's go on a final topic for the day, which is also when you think about investment first, as I said, do your life and financial goal. In a certain asset, third is think also on exit, because exit is equally to be taught when you are investing. I think it comes the same day when you think about investing, you also think about exit. And, and I feel that the times have gone where people were faster for life in businesses or, or any other investment cases, you need to also think equally that when is exit going to be an exit is always into divided into parts. One is what I call planned exit. And second is very opportunistic. So opportunistic and planned are two different things. They don't really come in and both can exist, parallelly with you. So, planned is a when, when should the planned exit done. Most of the time I will tell you on a business cycle, business cycle has cycle where it starts from what I call incubation inception, then it goes to growth stage and it goes to maturity stage. And at a maturity stage, I've seen businesses need to be recapitalized, and they have to go up in the, in their annual stage, which means that they will have to renew themselves and go up now like these days. You see the auto companies auto companies are passing through a huge change cycle. Most of these companies are facing multiple issues. They have degrees of declining growth, and they have a lot of competition coming in. They have issues on people switching into electrical. So needs a future capital to be deployed, and a lot of other disruptions are going on. And then you have economic disruption, then you have this lockdown, then you have production issues and multiple other issues are coming in. So companies which would have a chest or would have a lot of capital with them to bring this change for renewing this and maybe look at a new industry which can come out of them, which is a new mobility which people would like to do. They would be only able to survive. A lot of them which would be already stretched or they would not be able to find either an exit or a recapitalization would not be able to do that. So when you come down to maturity level, you need to really ask, do you have that money to revise your company or reinvent your company or are put into renewal stage? If you don't have that, at this stage, you need to really look at a planned exit. And that's something which we strongly advise. Don't wait, otherwise you'll get to a decline stage. And decline stage, a value erosion happens. You don't get the value and you will not be able to even sometimes get a fight fire at that time. So one of the areas which we strongly advise all our investors at companies at business X is that when you come down to a point where you are absolutely at the top and you have mature, but you don't see your future going up and you will not be able to reinvest in the business to get to the next level. You will not be able to change the orbit where you are. At that stage, it is best. A lot of Indian companies who found a good exit for the companies which were companies which were say largest in India and they felt that they would be a time, either they have to merge with them by a global company or they would have to have that money, enough money. Like Hero took a decision to get out of there from Hero Honda because they had all the capital to look at the next level of growth themselves. So they were able to go to Africa, other places in the world and compete with Hero Honda in different ways. If they would not have that money, they would have actually merged themselves back with the Honda itself. So this is very careful decision. I think the best time to exit is the time where you are at the top. And if you feel that at this stage, you don't have ability to go to the next level or create a new orbit, then you will have to find a exit structure. Or sometimes, you know, people have to also find an exit where they feel that they don't have the kind of resources, energy, and that is the best time they need to pass the baton to somebody else. Being opportunist, I think, is also not a bad thing because I feel that sometimes we shy away not to really talk about exit, don't really talk to people around us. So if you are somebody who thinks that you need to really look at an exit point, then you need to go and surround yourself with investment ecosystem, how the investment ecosystem works. You need to really talk to both your strategy for a financial buyer, you know, because then also one should understand in exits I have found there are two types of buyer groups. One is very strategic to come from your industry, they have ability to understand your business and can turn around that business. And most of the times non-profit, non-performing businesses would always attract a strategic buyer. Financial buyers are purely their return-based investors, so always looking at businesses which are largely performing and they always give you a max value. So you need to really see where your business is and where your asset is and reach out to either strategic or a financial buyer and be very frank on that. You know, I'll give you an example, we run magazines and once I was traveling with somebody who was running a competing magazine with me, absolutely competing and he started just competing with us. We met at the airport and he said, why can't I come with you, with you going on the same side I'm going and we'll talk on the, so his car followed and he came in my car and we were talking. You will not believe in the first five minutes he told me would like to buy my magazine and obviously I was a competition to me and I have no reason to buy his magazine but I now think how straight he was in terms of taking this. He knew that only person who can fix this because it was a franchise magazine will have been me, so he offered me to do that. So this is how you should really talk about your exit, you should not shy away, you should really talk to anybody and even hire a banker or a professional service provider like this. BusinessX also is an investment bank which works with helping people who are looking to exit. Now I'll leave you with five things which I've learned in my 26 years of business career, which is very important whenever you're looking for investment. First is timing of the idea, anything which you invest, see the timing and anything which has worked for me is always got timing. If my timing was right for that idea, I was very successful and that's something which is a starting point. I've always seen you are always a winner if you are a first mover in the business. Second, find your own originality in investment. Don't follow other to invest, find your own originality. Why you are investing into this, what you're bringing into this and how you want to treat this investment. So you have your own originality on that idea. Third, I always feel that everybody talks about, diversify your investments put into multiple things. I feel that my own approach is little different. Second, I say 70% put concentrated investment, 70% of all put in concentrated in things which you are deeply confident on and stay committed on that. 70% on that and 30% maybe on a diversified approach. So I don't want to see a complete diversified portfolio, I see 70% concentrated and 30% diversified. Second, you need to take care of your investment, capital would come later. Sometimes people just putting capital can take care of your investment. No, absolutely no, you take care of investment. So fundamentally it is important that you are taking care. There is as I started the session with, there is nothing like a passive, you are an active investor. Even if you are putting money in the stock market or a mutual fund or something, you are taking care of your investment. Nobody else is taking care of you. And finally, fifth, which I have now learned earlier, I was very different, I will be honest. This is not something which was in the first 10 years of my investment or even 20 years of my investment. Now I think similarly, I feel the emotions can stay just a business or life. So fundamentally sometimes you need to keep your emotions away and not think. Sometimes we just marry them too much and it's just a business. If it does well, if it's not done well, you can just get rid of it. So fundamentally don't get emotional about your investments. Wherever you invested, if it is working for you very well, bring the continuity in that. And if it is not working out, just find your exit and move out. So this is something in the first episode, we'll talk about the next episode on scale up. How do you scale your investments or your businesses? Then it will take up how to build value. And then we'll come back on investment and take one asset class and go deeper into that asset class, understand how to invest in that asset class and what are the risks and rewards on that asset class. So any questions you want to take? Sonali, if you're there. Sure, sir. So thank you first of all. Thank you so much for such a wonderful session and for sharing your valuable insights with all of us. I'm sure it is useful to all the attendees present out there. So thank you so much. And yeah, we have a few questions lined up with us. So I would just start with the first question. So it is from Mr. Rahman Chaudhary and he says, what are the investment opportunities in the new normal after COVID-19 pandemic, according to you? So very difficult question. I'm still in the discovery phase, Mr. Rahman. But I feel that, you know, first I don't, I'm not liking this new normal thing, you know, so I feel that the world is not changing. It's going to be the same as it should be. Maybe slight of changes would happen in terms of the way we behave over the next five to six months. And then we'll come down to what we used to do always. Maybe a behavioral change would happen. Yes, markets would shrink. That's for sure. And this is a good time to plan and put any investment you want to do, which industries, all industries are good. Even I think a lot of people are talking about gyms would not work or somebody saying this would not work. I don't see that. I'm maybe a foolish mistake on this, but I feel that world would not change. We build this, you know, hundreds of years, we have some civilization in bed. It's not going to change in this. But yes, some business would be out of it and there would be an opportunity for looking at those businesses. I would say some of the investments I would like to do in is more in technology, a lot of hyper local, Adrutech. So a lot of these industries would anyway would have grown, but now they have actually got a little bit of a spike in their growth cycles. A lot of, I would say, renewable energy, recycling, waste management. All these are very bullish industries to me. But otherwise you can just plan any industry. I'd rather I would say even a lot of, you know, looks like adversely impacted industries would also create a lot of opportunities. Acquisition opportunities in those industries also. And you'll see now that you'll see the bigger boys would start picking up, you know, the peak hotel change would start using as an opportunity to pick up a lot of assets at this time because a lot of people think their hotels would not run. But that's not true. And this time, I think even the, the fit of businesses would acquire not so fit businesses that happen. So, otherwise I'm, I'm bullish on, on all the industries. India, if you do anything to do with consumption, you cannot go wrong. Anything to do with consumption. Because we have this population to our advantage in that sense. Any other question. So we have one more question from Miss Sonil Krishnathri. And she says, in this current scenario, where we see liquidity and demand issues, we may see more sellers of their businesses, but less buyers or investors in the business. So are we prepared and have the adequate study and future plans to match the demand and supply of the business of buyers and sellers? Two questions. So I think you're absolutely right. The sell side will increase and buy side would shy while they were not going away. They would shy making the decision or they would become sometimes they become a confused group. They get too much on the plate and they, they keep looking at multiple assets. I think, yes, you're right. And this scenario is very typical. And I feel that the sell side has suddenly got a big, you know, supply side, which means that a lot of businesses would come in the market to sell. And buyers would not be so many, at least in the short term, which in three to six months, but as the markets coming in, you will see a lot of buyers coming in. And I also see, you know, there is a good mark on the MNA side. I think that MNA would boom in 2021. And a lot of buyers would come back with coins in the business and try to commit to action. The early signs would start coming in. And in this year, the next two quarters, but the real value would come in the 2021 cycle. And I would say that 2021 create a balance between sell and buy side. A sell side would continue to be in there for next two to four years. Rather, I think we will see in the fourth quarter of this financial year spike coming in the sell side. A lot of businesses when they are global companies, when they close their financial year or the companies which would India would have to close their next year financial year. So you will see a lot of things happening at that time. Wonderful, sir. So we'll just take up the last question for the session. The question says, if I don't have any savings, can I take bank loans and invest in businesses? Would that be a good idea? And yes, which bank provides loans without collections? No, without collectors. Yeah. So first, if you're starting a business and without and taking a loan, and this are, don't do it. You know, India is not very suitable for business loans. And I say this with, you know, bring a partner with you, share equity, unlock an equity, but don't take a loan. And if you start a small business, because the cost of capital in India is ridiculous. And if it is very high, then you make money and take a loan and the service loan would become a very big difficulty. And I have an entrepreneur suffering when they take loans and this is a very, and these bankers are bankers, you know, they would put everything on block and they would sign your personal guarantee when they run out of your homes and things like that. So don't take a loan and try to do that. My advice would be at this stage, businesses you should do largely with your own capital. It's a good time to get into business. Fantastic time to get into business. You will get everything cheaper and great deals are available. Both recent deals are also good available and try to be with your own capital. Maybe start small. There is no reason to attempt bigger businesses or a much larger businesses than borrow capital. I don't think that should be done. Capital should be best and only borrowed when you have very clearly large projects and which has a cycle of investment and then you have to, that is the only one. And that also we have seen is not work. I mean, you see, companies and a lot of other companies are suffering called cost of capital, but I certainly don't advise in India for small businesses to do that. We're not Japan, we're not US, where loans are cheaply available. While government is always spoken about it, but really on the ground we don't have that. You know, so cheap loans are not available. And some grants came in, in between there was some Mudra finance and a couple of other finances available from MSME also available. If you get that, that's okay. There is a startup India registration which you do and then you give you one which is very small industries or things of that nature. Then it's fine, you know, you can borrow that kind of money. But otherwise, don't go to a bank loan and never ever try to do a personal loan and start a business. Never. It's shooting yourself in the feet. Great. So I think we'll just wrap up the Q&A round with this. Thank you so much once again, Gaurav sir. Thank you for a wonderful session. And thank you to all our attendees for being part of this session. Anything else you would like to say? No, thank you very much. Thank you kind of you to invite me and we are Business X as I said is an investment platform where we help companies, investors to invest into startups. They want to look at joint ventures if they're looking for fractional ownership or they're looking at even buying existing businesses. All that is a work of business. And there are hundreds and hundreds of opportunities listed on that. So you can visit that and choose the right option. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and see you next week. Same thing three o'clock Saturday for the next session. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Gaurav sir. Thank you to all our attendees. As sir said, we'll see you next week, next Saturday at the same time with another session on all about scaling up. So, yeah. Thank you so much for your time. And if you have any questions, any queries at all, please feel free to get in touch with me. I'll be very happy to clear any doubts that you might have and we'll see you the next time. Thank you so much.