 Simon Michelle from Fig Securities joins us live now and I guess most surprised to see yields move higher off the back of that Simon. ECB upsetting markets but I guess the question is could this be a turning point in terms of stimulus or the lack thereof? Well it's interesting especially considering we didn't really get any forward guidance or any indication that there might be a review of that. It was only back in March this year that the ECB increased its bond buying program from 60 billion euros to 80 billion euros and I think what was really interesting is we're starting to get these comments from central bankers that you know there's only so much they can do on the monetary policy side and the fiscal policy side does have to work in tandem. We've heard that from Mario Draghi, we've heard it from Glenn Stevens and Jackson Hole recently over in the US so you know I think are we getting to a point where you know they feel they've done enough and they just need to work through this you know this would be a positive sign for the US they sort of wouldn't want to have seen much more intervention by Europe so we're at an interesting time at the moment. Yield's kicked up a little bit about four to six basis points across the curve that was matched here in Australia so not a huge movement. Or do you think they just think it's not effective anymore that it just doesn't have as a strong effect as it used to? Well at the end of the day I mean as we've seen in Japan and also coming up into Europe as you know they're starting to get to a point where you know they're going to run out of bonds to buy you know there's only so much you can do and they're already down in negative territory with their deposit rates as well. This incentive to try and get European banks to lend to SMEs you know that's the struggle as well because while you're downgrading growth you know who's going to want to step up and borrow that money if they can't put it to use and get any return on it. So you know I think they are I think you're right Ingrid I think you know central banks are saying well you know we've done pretty much as much as we can it's really up to you on the polity side of it on the fiscal budget to sort of you know meet us halfway. Well domestically here at home Qantas is looking at a potential Aussie dollar issue talk us through this one. Yeah so Qantas was upgraded from non-investment grade back up into investment grade end of last year early this year. The last time they issued they were in that non-investment grade space they were going through that turmoil they issued some 2021-22 bonds at about seven and a half percent so quite a high rate of return. If you look at how those bonds are trading now they're trading down around four percent. So on the back of that upgrading into investment grade Qantas can now go to the markets and issue it a much lower yield than it did back in those more volatile times. So it'd be interesting to see you know really good story I think they won't have any problem getting investors to step up for the bond issue. It'd be interesting to see what they do with the outstanding bonds whether we get some sort of pay down or buy back of those. Yeah I want to keep an eye on for sure Simon Michelle appreciate your time thank you. Great weekend thank you. Simon Michelle there for big securities. We're moving on