 special meeting of the borough and select board to order we're here for the purpose of listening to the public hearing for the zoning We started working on revising the zoning and subdivision regulations We've been working on that for the past three and a half years on and off We obviously we have a document that we have presented to you We held a public hearing on it on the 20th of December where we've had some comments and we Made a few changes and then presented that to you and now that obviously this is the hearing for This is an opportunity for the board to hear input your other comments and Our timing is such as I would we would like to put this on the ballot for town meeting day And that's the track we've been going down That's town clerk needs to receive final version Well, I guess the first thing is any comments Bill Warren from Crosstown Road We all live in a zoning now known as Highland Conservation Which has five acres of land for a plot and 300 feet of Roadfrontage That has been changed into two different zoning areas One is upland conservation, which is 10 acres and a hundred and eighty feet of road frontage and the other one is our two one eight, which is five acres and a hundred and twenty feet of frontage and I think our concern is that the amount of frontage has gone from 300 feet down to a hundred and twenty feet and We feel that's a little excessive. I have to respond The current frontage you go ahead So Would you like to point to where your property is on the And you'll hear more about this one So So as you'll point out his property is on here This zone is a currently a rural residential zone All these properties on Crosstown Road I believe these neighbors who have frontage on rural residential It's a hundred and twenty feet on rural residential the green behind them is 300 feet, but none of these properties in green front on Crosstown Road Their portion of their property is is rural residential, which is 120 feet in the new zone and you'll see We cure this ambiguity and remove the worm So this this will no longer exist it exists today It in the future it won't exist if these zoning regulations pass So we we kept the same distance on these properties as it currently is which is a hundred twenty feet And keep in mind that we we have been listening to what they've done with the Crosstown Road neighborhood has been saying and You know, let's face it. This document won't be perfect. We know that It's just gonna be a completely new document that we're working with so as soon as we Assuming we pass the document we will start looking at but we right now My default has always been during this process if there's ambiguity you resolve it in the in the Way and you keep the way it is until you know what your changes are gonna what effect your changes are gonna have so Changing all of those lots of change are literally changing the road from 120 to 300 feet is a big deal for people that may not You know have Have that much road furniture have a conforming lot at that point so We will take a look at it and we will study it and we will see what effect it'll have on the lots there And we fully fully believe that we will have to vote again in November on some changes to the zoning So we will examine it and we will study it and we will see what? What the best thing is to that native but right now we believe for this document we should leave the the R218 at 120 feet Carla at the meeting that on December 20th You did kind of make a joke like like don't worry people Who would have who would even create a five acre lot with a hundred and twenty feet? I remember clearly you're saying that so you're trying to I believe that you may have but Regardless a five acre lot with a hundred and twenty feet frontage is odd and we're not comfortable with that Right now Highland conservation is five acre lot minimum with 300 feet frontage There's rural residential of one acre with a hundred and twenty feet frontage So the proportions work for those but the proportions don't work for a five acre lot with a hundred twenty feet It would be odd and on the other side of the road We are on the West East side bill West West side with the five acres and a hundred twenty feet on the other side Of the road where the parkers are they're proposing ten acres with a hundred and eighty feet So again a very odd proportion and it just doesn't feel Comfortable to us. I mean we all moved across town road because we love the road. We like the neighborhood We like the lots as they are and we don't understand the logic behind making these Rather dramatic changes To the frontage requirements. It doesn't make sense to us and that was not explained To us at least enough that we understood it at the December 20th meeting The road frontage parallel is that a minimum? Yes So they can't have a larger road for you But that minimum is a concern to us like what might come with those So what you're telling me is that the worm currently Which all of these lots all the houses on Crosstown Road in that area are within that zoning Yeah, you're telling me the existing zoning's honored point All of the lots and then I might be wrong on this but all of the lots that are on this worm Extend into the Highland conservation area and once a lot goes between two different zones, which? rules apply to that zone I mean which which zone applies to the So if these all are Highland conservation Wouldn't they have to have 300 feet of frontage? No So you can you you can use this little worm here with a hundred feet go into Highland conservation and Still maintain the hundred and twenty feet of frontage on Crosstown Road That's how I would The DRV has interpreted to recent zoning Very few houses have a hundred and twenty feet We only know of one the bushes So it just there's a certain logic that doesn't make sense to us and that's I don't know the parkers are here I would like to say something about the worm That goes along Crosstown Road There is a minimum well the way I look at the worm is zoned for RR and and there is The worm is whatever width it is I don't like this distance can I come Excuse me it may take me a minute to get the ring number just right but if you've got the If you've got the road going along like this you've got the worm that's a hundred feet To one side and 200 feet to the other Okay, 200 feet would be on those on the southeast and 100 feet Depth on on that side Now the minimum acreage required is 40,000 square feet Okay, now how are you going to do that you've got You could do it on the east side the southeast side if you had 200 feet of frontage Because 200 times 200 would make it but your lot can go into the other zoning Well, it can be what do we what do we mean by zoning when we when we paint when we paint When we paint this thing on there If a lot is going to qualify under our doesn't have to qualify within the zone That's clearly marked on the map is our Don't they change I mean the part of the problem is is That the whole thing is not necessarily the best way that that I mean I wouldn't have done that the worm is And that's what we're trying to fix Don't get me right I appreciate I appreciate many things for example the the proposal that the worm go And the 10 acre and five acres we appreciate that I think there's there's a lot of good things here But as I look at the I guess this is the same Yeah, this I look at the old map. It seems to me that the town has a tradition of What matters here is that conservation was Was targeted for this area and we put a dysfunctional worm in there You can't get 40,000 square feet on this side because the minimum lot lot depth in our Is supposed to be 200 feet and the worm is only a hundred feet deep So it's throw the worm out I mean already the worm is dysfunctional and now maybe the You say that there's precedent but I mean the purpose of having zoning is so that you've got something in writing and you don't need to have the The appeal board of the day making a decision that might be very different from what the appeal board five ten years out With me I believe that the way I mean the only logical way it works in my mind is if you're in Your building in the 200 foot strip You Would have to have I don't I don't even know how they interpret it It was it was beyond before our tenure we're not gonna pretend to understand the worm though. I know we're getting rid of the worm What with the worm get rid of that too, but but can I just so here's where I'm at Frankly this issue came up very late as we were having right before this public public hearing I'm uncomfortable Making the 300 foot determination without looking at how it affects. I'm only hearing from to cut from from to plot to law owners I don't know how the rest of the we could collect we could collect signatures car Love we've talked to many of our neighbors. They may not be here, but we talked to quite a few people so the bottom line is is I as a planning commission is our responsibility to try to do it do what we do with the Best information we have and at this point that was what was in the zoning what we had proposed because we Were uncomfortable Changing the 120 to 300 when it had been 120 without actually looking at the impact that was gonna have on the town That's where I'm at. I'm not trying to Create a disgruntled neighborhood or or fight with you know, my fellow girl inners I just and that was that's my process and I don't it doesn't mean that we Intend to leave it that way or that we won't continue to work with the neighborhood I just don't I'm not comfortable at this point making that determination It's particularly sense of planning commission hasn't voted on it. It's not my decision. So I I I can't sit here and say Yes Hear them and I sympathize and I completely understand what you're saying I if I if you thought I made a joke about it I'm sorry I was just trying to get across to you that we know this is a living document and that there's going to be a lot of things that are probably things that are going to have to change and I and I Fully intend to bet for that to be our next, you know Right away to start looking at that and listening to the DRV and what what's working and what's not working And so I fully apologize if you thought I was making a joke. I wasn't I was just trying to get across to you that We will see how this works and we will listen and we will do what we need to do down the road I just wasn't comfortable making that change without the planning commission voting on it And without studying it a little bit more that that's just that's all I can really say about it on this map the the Proposed map you're using crosstown as the Demarcation, yes, okay, and other than that there is no Reason for the change. I mean other well other than to get rid of the war and whatever that is I'm assuming that in previous zoning Commissions that they took and did the worm simply to take and allow the neighborhood to have a Ability to grow That's the only thing we thought yeah, and keeping it out of the conservation Okay You can't keep it up because the minimum lot depth is required to be 200 feet And there's only a hundred feet in the worm, but you can have a hundred feet in the other zone You can have a 300 foot deep lot and only a hundred feet of it in that zone Yeah, but you have a qualified the lot But if you're building the house within the first hundred feet you get you qualify Your life doesn't qualify that's how the DRV has interpreted that's the way it's always been interpreted with commercial and residential lines That's the way it's always Between two different zones What Rules apply to them where the building is typically where the building so if you build your house on first hundred feet And you got 200 feet in another zone The zoning that would apply would be where your house is sitting. Okay, and almost all the houses are fairly close That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you know I understand and if I had a lot within the worm Currently they had 150 feet of frontage if you change it to 300 feet it wouldn't be very happy because it One question is don't all lots become grandfathered once a new set of zoning rules come to place I mean Yes, and grandfather, but something to go forward if you want to change your lot or develop it some event now you have to Buy buy the new zone. Yes, that's true But but there will be a lot of non conforming lots once the new zoning goes through and those will all still be there We've worked really hard to try to not create non conforming lots the One exception probably would be where we did go into conservation behind the up the upland conservation because it changed to 10 acres Right, so why couldn't you do that on the other side of the road? You know it's five acres and 120 feet on one side 10 acres and Tom Because because because you came to your neighborhood came to a meeting and asked it to be five acres We thought you were eliminating the worm with 120 feet of frontage. We never thought to question the frontage We were questioning the acreage because you were thinking about half acre lots and It was originally draft that that area was one acre zone The neighborhood came in and said no, we would like it five acres on My vision agreed and made it five acres only and no one thought to question the frontage Tom Well, then we found that out five days before Christmas. You know, there was no time to react There was no time to respond We and you know and now we are here. I could appreciate that But we have some deadlines to get this stuff done we What your change is you're asking us to do would postpone this boat until November we cannot afford that For for your two lots. We can't afford it It's not just our tomb. I could collect signatures of people on our road There are many no one wants to change people like the 300 feet people like the large lots Our property was never 300 feet party. It's right there. It's never what's 300 feet Maybe it's your perception, but I'm sorry if your perception was wrong. It was wrong. It was 120 feet It's zone. We're residential. It's right there in light green. It's been there forever You can see it. What are the ramifications if this goes through and if this zoning is passed? What is the next step in? deciding how these Lots work. I mean I sort of feel like okay marches to deadline. I appreciate what you guys have done I mean we're in this little thing I can't believe the industrial the Hamlets the yet that the other goes on in Berlin But it seems like this is our chance to get the zoning close to what we want And I think we want more than a hundred and twenty feet of frontage So what you do is you come to the planning Commission They meet the second and fourth Tuesdays of a Wednesdays of the month right you come in have this discussion The planning Commission looks to the review of the impact on the entire zoning district You can make changes to this document. It's a living breathing document Okay, we typically try like to do it around planned Lectorial events because it's about three or four thousand dollars if you hold a special boat So that's what you do And honestly if what you're saying is true And I'm not watching as far as the number of Lot owners that are not in favor of this. I'm not sure that there's a Lot to be concerned about in the next. I mean Because it's only if there are the same amount of people that have lots without him Right We're not I Don't know what the impact is to the rest of the It's the case that some of these concerns first came up in April at April 12th of 2017 and In the draft minutes of the planning Commission meeting for that date I'm counting. I think 17 names of people along Cross-town who came and expressed concern over the the narrowness the 120 feet It was about it was about Their fear of higher density housing along the road and so increased traffic Depreciation of their land, but we didn't talk about the road front as we talked about the fact that at the time We had this is the other thing that the planning Commission did at the time time that they're speaking about There was what you call the minimum lot size so you could cluster so there was a half-acre minimum lot size So it would have allowed someone with 10 acres to put well, yeah, would have put you could have put 10 houses on 10 acres five five years so that now the idea behind that is to conserve open land That was that's one of the ways that Planning people you know proposed to preserve open land So we did away with all the half we did away with the minimum lot sizes and all the areas except the growth areas the residential the Hamlet, you know the town center that kind of thing and put this area back Back to five acres. I mean we've we've tried to accommodate the concerns about the small Why did you keep that frontage water? Why did you suggest the frontage of 120 and 180? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense it to us It's it's concerning 120 on one side of the road 180 on the other I would just narrow when you consider the Acreage, but it is what it is today. It is what it is today. Yes Well, and you got more acreage Yeah, instead of the cluster housing they have to have five acres the other thing because I can't visualize a little bit What you've been showing? But if you've got five acres and only a hundred and twenty foot a road frontage, isn't that land still those are called spaghetti lots And there is opportunities for that on Crosstown road there are pieces of property where a hundred and twenty foot of Five acres would be that hard to do I don't put words in colors off, but I think what she's suggesting is Come to the planning commission and talk about this. I think you found them to be reasonable people I think you found the planning mission to be very reasonable and accommodated And That's I don't think that's gonna change. I really don't think it's gonna change I'm not opposed to what you're saying. I like I said, I just don't it's not my decision to make I Can't sit here and say yes the planning commission, you know We want to make that change because we have not looked at it or talked about it It was never raised as an issue But again, Connie was the acreage that we were concerned about back on For recall we made it and there was there was draft zoning regulations back in May of 2017 when we did the five acres it clearly was a zone Somebody should have read the zone and said if there was an issue with it And you and nobody did I Did I don't know every single thing that's in that document and we were dealing with so many We had neighborhood after neighborhood coming in we were listening listening to all those concerns from all those neighborhoods and We missed it it we didn't compare we didn't really really Look at the frontage the way you're we looked at it and we're looking at it now because there was many more big picture issues that we were looking at and Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you It's just that it's just that I don't think that it's a change that I can unilaterally make or ask them to Because it hasn't been studied and it hasn't been Discussed with the greater peak greater didn't do process so to speak going through the hoops And before March, there's no time to talk to the planning commission again, but it can't so But we won't be able to vote for it if We're not I can't tell you how to vote I know you but you're you're going to be hearing from if it doesn't happen hood and that would be Frustrating for you. I'm sure but there's no chance of changing this before the March vote We literally do not have time You know if the vote doesn't happen the word stays so you guys probably need to decide Which is the lesser two equals I guess What's a chance of changing just a small thing right now leave the zoning the new zoning the way you want it remove the worm But say 300 feet. I think if you Can't do that We haven't what they're saying is the process has to start over again We're going to go to public hearings and there's legal Grammifications of how many days you have to notify in advance and so forth Well not to mention the fact that We would actually have to go back and look at the issue and have a and talk to the neighborhood And so it's not even just a matter of holding another public here. What would you estimate? To that it would do to research that that question. How long would that take? I mean you would have some open Meetings so that people could come and talk to you. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, but again So again, we're talking again a few months several months every bit and again the whole town center Plan is coming together now. That's going to be taking a lot of quick. We After this vote you can always have amendment to be on the November ballot Is that what we fully intend to do is to make Any necessary Trying to get I was trying to ask I didn't do it very well, but would it be ready for the November ballot? Your research on crosstown. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely There's a whole process whereby once you warn the Warn the changes any application is reviewed under both Documents and the string more stringent one apply. So were we to warn? The select board to warn those amendments in June Then any application that came in would be subject to those more stringent requirements If we make proposed amendments so if we proposed a 300 foot road frontage and Warn that in June the select board warned that in June any application that came in after that point would be reviewed under the Example the select board warned these regulations Right now I have to review any applications under the old regulations and the new regulations Really both correct and use the most anticipation and use the most string correct So that's again But how do you find out about the warning, you know I mean there was one notice in front-page forum about a month before the December 20th meeting just one and The meeting was five days before Christmas. I know how many people miss that how many people didn't know You know, I mean you might be doing due diligence and checking the box of saying we put something in front porch forum We did one legal notice in Times-Argus, but is that enough for the people to know? I mean there are sweeping changes in Regulation changes so that we have a public Notification list that we send these things well in advance to 40 or 50 people whoever wanted to be on this gets every notification that the town has I think Bill We're on it. Okay. Thank you. We appreciate that. Okay, so you had the notice. Yes, and so It was in front porch forum several times as I wrote it myself. It was in the in the newspaper You know besides having a mailing go to everybody in the town, which is Well, but the other thing I'd like to point out is that was just the final public hearing right we held I Don't I cannot even count how many individual three and a half year hearings over the course of time so that last one was really Sort of the Is there anything else here meeting because we had thought we had talked to every neighborhood and Sort of hashed through all the issues. So that was just the last of many meetings that we held I mean I have to make that point And to be honest with this frontage blinds iron it did it didn't ever thought it was an issue Communications the most difficult thing I think we do and we're always looking for new ideas Well, how we can get the word out. We have it on the website. We have a list that we try to send to people Other than going to everyone's house and telling them about it, which I'd love to do but it's just not practical The Times-Argus is our newspaper record. So if you think of anything, I truly mean I'd like to know You know, I mean I really did look Tom for how many times it was in the front porch Forum and you know the announcement for the December 20th meeting. There was one and it was about a month in advance There was no other and I'm not going to say to you. Yes, obviously we we fulfilled our legal obligation But I'm not going to say that to you even though we did I know because I was like check the box We're trying to improve however we can so I guess it is what it is now, but right, you know, I Mean being self-employed Wayne maybe you might agree but 20 years ago. It was easy to reach everybody But now everyone's plugged into their own thing, right? And I don't I don't know how you reach people Very very hard I've seen where what's happening in part of the town where it's been Highland conservation and it's going to the half acre lots Do those people know we don't have half acre lots anymore money The 40,000 square feet that's an acre. That's an acre. Okay, so the one acre watch and those are currently one acre zoning We didn't change that. All right Because Bill was looking at the current and the There's a few places where they it came out of Highland, but it was Not most mostly I mean, I just want to reiterate that we we've tried to I hope you agree that we've tried to listen and that we've and this was not an intentional Slight or whatever. How do you look at it? It really did fly inside us as well And we are fully prepared to take a hard look at it and we listen anything you have to say Unfortunately, I can't recommend a change at this point because I just don't have the authority Well, we're here to give public response to the select board When I came in the door The worm wasn't the first thing that was on my mind I'd like to talk about the the fate of this whole Let me say it right Highland Conservation District As I see it a lot of it goes into There are 11 categories there are 11 districts and in the new zoning and Among them there for that I I look at is conservation as maintaining what is important to me about my home state The fact that you can drive along a dirt road and maybe see a deer in a field and and some forest That's why I bought into Berlin 35 years ago and have hung around And I'd like to keep the I'd like to see us keep that but I look at the This relates to what we've been talking about, but it's a slightly different angle and it's with a broader brush I look at the frontages that are mentioned period that That relate to that land that conservation land that we might want to keep to keep the rural flavor And the low residential flavor of the town and I see I see numbers 120 150 180 and 300 feet mentioned on either the existing document or the proposed document My brain's kind of into these two pieces of paper. They're the same thing as what's up here But you know You look at this I look at this and On the on the new one There isn't anything 300 feet anymore all that shoreline conservation is down to 180 That was all 300 before the jet There's I don't think there's any way to look at those two maps and talk about the comparison between the Highland conservation And what happens to it? When it when it goes into these 11 districts and not see that the proposed zoning is Looking to slice the town up into narrower lots And I'm concerned about that just that general phenomenon that I think pervades The whole the whole thing in terms of these these what for conservation districts we have There's nothing 300 feet on that map. They're all 180 and and 120 and If you go to spot by spot through the through the map, it seems to me That it's really mostly what you see is reduction reduction reduction narrow and narrow and narrower And this is this is happening in a you know, we're not sitting in County. We're in kind of a Part of the state that's in Maybe even shrinking I mean we're having trouble keeping schools From consolidating because we're getting fewer students fewer students to go to them Why should we dice ourselves up into I mean this our town? Why should we dice ourselves up into narrower and narrower pieces? We don't have the Chittenden County population first pressure Can't can't we keep more of the flavor of that Highland conservation? That's that's just a general reaction. I have to the whole thing The dark green there in the center Move further over that that one That went from five acre to ten acres only. That's about 20% of the tunnel right there. That's good. Okay, so I Just want to reiterate there was no intent on the part of the planning Commission to create narrow lots or to dice up the town We we were relying on a consultant who assured us that we were creating and what we looked at We thought we were creating more conservative actual true conservation areas when we devised the upland and the shoreland conservation Unfortunately, we were looking at acreage and we missed the frontage. We are fully aware of that and that is our first Task is to try to address the frontage issue Frankly, the shoreland conservation is the only zone that I right now would support We'll be back to 300 feet because it currently is all 300 feet We would not be making any change that doesn't currently exist That would be the only zone I could sit here right now and say I Think that should be personally think that should be 300 feet because we would not be making any change from what it currently is Highland in the in the upland I can't say that because we've changed the boundaries a bit and I can't say that in the R218 because of the Difference from the 120, but I would say that for strong and and I can tell you that it's been discussed But again, I'm not the I Don't I you know, I'm not the the final word But that would be right now. So I completely agree with you and unfortunately We were focused on acreage and not so focused on the lot frontage But there was never an intent to dice up the town into narrow lots I can assure you of that that was not even of on the table or discussion It was simply an oversight on the frontage versus the lot size So what happens if someone right now suppose this passes at some meeting and here it says 120 180 feet and somebody comes along And says I want to build on 120 feet lot It could happen if it's under four acres You can happen if it's over I mean under four lots under if it's four lots or less But there is a protection in this and all the conservation districts that if it's a five lot or more subdivision It has to go through a conservation subdivision, so it would not be allowed for a large development I have to get I have to say that if it was a four lot or under subdivision It could happen with to 120 feet or 180 feet in the shoreline And in the new zoning, so we haven't even talked about subdivision So that's that is a possibility Until or unless and until we make an amendment to assuming it passed That was one But if someone applied today Within the worm Like I said the only the differences the shoreline does have right that is one area where Talk to that at some point here is the residence in the shoreland area Concerns are the residents I think there's a very much a very simple Things you want the same basis that you all small lots I think what some years ago I'm on my end Down here What are the things working through with the planet in the last couple years and Tom They've really done a great job Doing all this rethinking and listening to everybody Just see they've done a great job One of the things that we missed and I missed and was when This first started like Carlos When I first looked at it, there wasn't one conservation area in the town It was scary. It was half acre lots everywhere And I said no, that's not our vision of the town and they went back and they did lots of work getting conservation back into the town The shoreline conservation was critical because of Berlin Highland went the state of five acres the Upland ten acres just because it's a real challenge and you gotta They looked at in detail some ways of look at it Buildable land and went through all kinds of contortions to say, how do you do that? One of the best ways was to look at a higher smaller lot makes it less economically developed But so I'm totally on board with not narrow lots We eliminated bowling alley lots on the planning commission years ago Because we had all these bowling alley lots that were starting to come up in town Uncrossed on road with one place so if you look at what we have So I think the intent was never to chop anything up. It was actually the other way around that more and more It looked more to conservation related So we're almost there and one of the things that I felt like And I've talked to for two years talked all the residents of Berlin pond that I know and meet them walking around there And I meet walkers and people walking the dogs and everything else here, but he just says This should stay the way it is the way it is five acres low density development and It was an oversight of my part to not to catch the 180 This is every piece of this shown Has 300 there's just one One zone it doesn't have some of the complexities on Cross-town road. I absolutely agree with With the planning commission study has to be there. You have to really you know, maybe it isn't time to do that At the time, I think they're totally committed to do that and understand the implications of the two zones hitting separate lots the snake existing lots I'd say that I have a lots of confidence. I'll work out Your benefit because of the people involved But I don't think it can work out at this meeting or tomorrow or this holding up the zoning And I think the zoning should go ahead quite honestly. It's got lots of good things in it for the town But I think in Highland, I really would like to request that Like more to this page look at look at leaving this 300s footage The same reason is I went through a road this several times Once I realized that she it's 180 We've got 600 acre lots out there for 600 foot from if we do lots of roams We will see Three lots that have no nothing more than another subdivision the 300 would give us a depth with 180 would give us a depth of almost a half mile and some of these lots No, it just doesn't work. You're halfway up the interstate Lots with Neuro lots have problems with impact on especially in these areas we have high levels of natural areas and conservation that the town wants to see We just forced people to sell long narrow lots that are 2500 feet away from their own it doesn't make any sense or difficult to develop their challenging access wise Public safety hates them. Somebody built some of them the back end of the lot and place of her down So that's that simple. So that was one of the reasons that these Spaghetti lots are calling alley lots So I think a good step forward for this zoning would be to say Select more look at this. There's absolutely no question of support on 300 foot Just leaving the 300 foot front is the way it is. I think that it be supported by the Cross-down people would show what we're doing in that direction in this phase At this point say yes, we understand yes, we do don't want narrow lots It's timing wise to tell the truth. I work in land development Some developers do scare me a little bit All of a sudden it's yeah, I've got a five you've got a 500 acre lot or 500 foot frontage. I can get Three six of which I can get three lots in there. I can have them done in three months Once you submit them they move forward So in this area where you have Really have some good opportunities. I think even better opportunities for develop and over the cross-down role You've got just got some really nice develop the lots in there if you don't I think it'd be good for this round of Before there's only changes to get those chains back Even the way they are And I think it can be done because it doesn't change anything You know, they shouldn't be any studies required. There shouldn't be any Public over the last two years. I said in several of these meetings and it was It's pretty clear. You know, I've probably talked to a hundred people that everybody says this is This is so important the future of our town To protect it and so so I think it's a good start to say yeah, let's believe them at 300 with this zoning It sends a message to everybody in here, this is where we're heading in the town Sends a message to people that may come out and say we want Contest this because we really don't know where we're going But it does that protection that I think is necessary in that key conservation area It predicts the value of the town Highly supportive amount of work, but I'm planning question the town and this is just super Exciting where the town's gone But this is a little bit of a yin-yang, you know Love the town because we get a place to work in the shop and stop at Mabel to get a cup of coffee It just all works great, but we love our back area Lover backgrounds we brought through that's that's what's important So I got I did quite a bit of study on this and we can talk There's things like typical planning say your ratio shouldn't be more than One or greater than less of one to four for next versus that It should be between one and two to one and four we're up to With the 180 we're up to 1200 Which is a one and seven so we're way beyond where we should be in An area this conservation world So so I've asked if there's any way we can do that my research says that we can as long as we have all our ducks in order and get a Reasonable Say I'd be happy to Planting commission on a cross-down row of the residents So I would just say that But it doesn't I mean the only like I said the only area that I am comfortable that we It fits my criteria of we're not making a change. It's what it is And you don't know of any non-conforming lots at 300 feet as it currently is We've got None conforming lots in every district in the town because My neighbor's got a non-conforming lot now So the key is that we are chaining it so you can't you aren't doing any You aren't creating any new non-conforms. Yeah, I understand but you know The last minute change without the public what that Says to me is what if somebody had a 200 foot road from his lot They gave it to their nephew last week because there's only change is going to make it possible to build out You know, it's just hard to make this change. I agree that it's not a change. I But there are there might be people that aren't getting the opportunity to speak to this that I think it's almost the opposite The past I'm more comfortable without making a change. I mean I agree with that it currently is 300 you want to keep it 300 I understand that I'm just saying that there's always Someone with a different opinion. I just don't know that they in the 11th hour. I've had their opportunity. That's all I mean Saying we're not going to make the change we said we were going to make is in fact making a change Yeah Again, we this will be the first thing we tackle 23 It is a risk to the town It's probably Well-defined that this is the way it should go The town is accepting the risk to look at three or five or six or eight lots that people just make advantage of Making some money So I think that's the risk you fake is a slight word by not doing this So Tom earlier you said if somebody has an application you have to look at both and I have to abide by the most stringent correct So wouldn't that force them to abide by the 300 feet up until March? If these the stupid if it passes it would be the new one And then it would be if we propose an amendment that it would begin again at the So if you had If we had proposed amendments And ready to go in early June That's What 90 day periods someone could sneak in there, but it's 90 days I don't know how much sneaking is going to get done in 90 days, but but then it would have to conform with that new amendment Right. Yeah, which is back to 300 I mean it does seem a little I just think the only thing is All the facts in there that the decision on Tourism and conservation could be made easily No risk The coin if there was outrage, which it sounds like there won't be There was to change it back If we if we eliminated the change and left it at 300 And people came in here and set the place on fire that We would hear them speak and Planning to make would change it back. I don't really know you guys You know compared to what they are doing and the knowledge they have It's a lot more than weaker than we have What about a Crosstown road with if you get the worm was 120 feet of frontage and one acre lot Highland conservation was a minimum of five acres of 300 feet frontage. What if we were to eliminate the worm and Adhere to the five acre lots with one 500 the five Frontage which is highland conservation but that's a change That's a significant change for the people in the worm for what it is today But the 300 is the same as it is now But in the very difference, there's only one half set if you used to do it too. Yeah, but there are 20 or 30 properties that are If you wanted to we could leave it at three or I Believe how the the statute would look at this that that the Select board has it's right then the shoreline Because right now the planning commission is is looking at a lesser amount than what it is currently I think the select board could Could make that change and say no it goes back to the more conservative one And that's not would not be deemed as a substantial change On crosstown road you have this rural residential zone the worm That's 120 feet if if the select board said We we're going to take crosstown to 300 feet that becomes a substantial change Which kicks it back to the planning commission all hearings go through a whole full thing again, but which would not allow us the March vote So leaving that 300 at 300. It's still a lot is still allowed to go to the That's how we have to shore us control Work on you have emotions put before the subboard Do we know how many and do you happen to know how many Houses there are on crosstown road right this minute that have less than 300 feet I didn't look at that. I looked at acreages and but I didn't look at I don't know, but I'm trying to imagine every house up down the road while I walk and I can't think of Many that are currently less than 300. Anyway, whether they were supposed to be here in our warehouse But I think I think the point is we can't we can't do anything about that the worms guys That's right. We may be able to do something about I think you can I think you can do something with shoreline all those Current lots are currently 300 and you're just taking it back to the what it is today Right, maybe you're saying you're not going to change anything. We're going to keep it the way it is now right now So in your opinion, you know, what do you think of that? I'm just going to say that if if I were at the planning commission meeting I would be in favor of it simply because it like I said, I've always had this my principal has always been if in doubt came with the same and in this particular case because we never Honestly, we just didn't focus on show on frontage. We were More listening to the acreage issue and trying to make sure that the acreage was what the neighborhoods wanted We just didn't focus on the front. So I would Personally would support as I would, you know In other areas, but Not for this tonight So let me ask in terms of schedule suppose this goes to town meeting and everybody votes and the worm is gone And it's 10 acres on this side five acres on that side And oh by the way, there's this frontage that we kind of don't like How soon after the town meeting can we approach the come right at because we're going to start looking at I I don't even think you have to wait to the book the town meeting. You could come To the our next meeting is the 23rd of january And we can talk about I mean I'd like to see what personally what I would really want to do is understand What you're saying are there lots without 300 feet Speak to the You know have A notice to the neighbors, you know, I know, you know, you have a lot of connections But make sure we also talked to anybody that maybe doesn't have 300 feet or has a smaller doesn't have a conforming lot And just get a sense of where we're at and then And then go from there because I do think that we just have to look at the numbers and we have to analyze the lots And we have to see what we're just closing what we're what we're left with and if there's no issues We that's on that's on one of the first amendments is to amend it to 300 feet frontage And maybe we're going to see other things You know that we have to I mean that's the we fully intend to go through that process and The reason that time is talking about june is because there's a certain amount of time before a vote that's we could just act but I mean theoretically We could have a warner meeting And And I would definitely you know, in iran we want to help us without that would be great looking at the loss and the But that's what the process would look like and and and we would start immediately We don't have to wait for the vote I mean in theory, we Don't know if it's gonna pass obviously, but we know what we would still have the information as to what we would want to do if it didn't pass Right, I mean So much of this is good the 10 acres of the five in the big It's still surprising to me that but we don't want to say you never thought about the frontage But I would try not to talk about it. It's just We welcome you a hundred times because it's a big job We've had so many issues to deal with that we just didn't get there and I apologize, but we just didn't get there I I just have a question in the context of this area. We're talking about across down road. I mentioned 120 150 180 300 feet have been mentioned as frontages relevant to that area There's no there's no stones someplace with those numbers on now. So how what I mean We And if you find that there are 18 lots with 220 feet of frontage, then maybe it isn't 300 maybe it's 220 Exactly, you're you're exactly right. Thank you for that comment, you know That's why the study is important What you're doing Yes, rather than shooting blindly. So I just want to have the information before we make the final decision But there will be I mean, we will definitely I'm guessing it's going to change and we just don't know what it's going to change to I assume that's open information. I could go to the town office and say, what's the furniture? Yes, this isn't that the other property. I don't have to ask my neighbor how much you could actually go on E911 And you can measure road frontages right on E911 pretty accurately. So you don't need to have to come here for that's pretty handy But it is public Well before we go, I know it seems to have been kind of contentious But I know that you guys have done a tremendous amount of work and you worked for three years on this and you did Give us the acreage that we had hoped for and I really thank you for that Well, and I appreciate your participation. I mean, it's hard. This is hard. It's hard to do this in a room with nobody nobody there, you know I appreciate you guys doing the meetings that you gathered your neighbors. We had the Potluck. I mean, it was you know, we've done a lot of fun things throughout this process And I really do want us to work together. I'm not I there's no ill will or intention to do anything to do any harm We really just are trying to update everything So thank you. Thank you Any other comments on this? Motion to close the meeting