 PDP's Jan Dorr files petition against Somolou's victory. Ondo APC works suspense chairman over abuse of office. Clarified position federal government tells Peter Obi over leaked audio. 16 Ogun PDP assembly candidates track APC INEG to tribunal. Tonight on the program we'll be discussing ways of settling the tension that may have come up before and after the 2020 elections. Just ahead of the inauguration of the president-elect Bola Akmeh Tinobu expected to be on May 29th. This is PLOS Politics. My name is Nyam Gul Agadje. It's still PLOS Politics. My name is Nyam Gul Agadje. President-elect Asiwaju Bola Tinobu has raised a lamb over a life plot by some aggrieved politicians to truncate the transition process, particularly his expected swearing-in on May 29th. Tinobu, in a statement by the spokesman of APC presidential campaign council PCC Festus Kayamo, also warned the presidential candidates of the People's Democratic Party PDP Al-Hajji Atikwa-Bubakar and other of the Labour Party LP, Mr Peter Obi, against taking to the streets while also pursuing their cases in court. In the statement issued, the president-elect noted that those who have taken to the streets protesting against his mandate are fixated on having an interim national government, IMG. Joining us live to discuss this is Mr. Shegun Shokpeton, a political analyst. And we're hoping to be joined also by Taiwo Olakpade in a course of the show. But we're beginning with Mr. Shokpeton. Good evening and welcome to the program, Mr. Shokpeton. Thanks for having me. Okay. Well, now the elections have come and gone. I'm not sure we're going to have another election again, except, well, the unthinkable happens. And now that we are at this point, May 29th is just around the corner and we need to mend fence. We need to mend the bridges, mend the fences and whatever it is that we need to do to come back as one and move on as a nation. But it doesn't seem to be happening, especially within the political parties. We've seen where PDP here in Lagos has filed a petition against the victory of Somolou and even, in fact, the Labor Party that they did not keep to the guidelines of INEC. We've seen it on the way APC has suspended the chairman over abuse of office that they are calling it. We've seen where APC is accusing Labor Party presidential candidate that there was an audio that was leaked and he needs to clarify that and this and that. Every small issue is either going to court or is becoming a very, very serious talking point within the parties and, you know, inside the parties and between parties and all that. We've also seen Labor Party. Now we are having someone who is parodying himself as the authentic or acting Labor Party chairman, national chairman, and we're just wondering what is really happening. How can we heal and move on as a nation? Let's first of all just look at what is happening within the parties. Why do you think there is this rise in suspensions, anti-party and all those other things that the parties are accusing themselves and other parties of? What is giving rise to all of this after an election has been won and lost? Well, thanks for having me again and good evening Nigerians. Look, yes, the elections have come. Yes, we can say they have gone. But it would appear as though from every thing that we see in the country now that the elections are far from over and that is unfortunate because it should not be said. The reality, no matter what anybody might say, that the elections are not over. We've heard elections of different colours, different flavours in the past as well in this part of the public does limit ourselves to that time frame. And I think even when we had elections that were really, really terrible, for example, in 2003 and 2007 elections, I'm not sure I remember any time, maybe with the slight exception of 2011 where the youth in the nation has held so much uncertainty where over a month after the presidential elections there's still a lot of doubt surrounding the transition, if you like. And the question that we have to ask ourselves is why? People for people that are supporters of the ruling party that INEC has declared the winner, they will admit that they are far from being a celebratory vote. They are far from resting and relaxing and trying to sabotage victory. They're still combatants. They still won controversy or the other every single day. They still have to respond to accusations, they are making accusations. The entire country is in a bit of a state of suspense at the moment. And you have to ask ourselves why? And for me, I think the reason is very simple. I don't think that anybody, no matter their coloration, no matter their leaning, political leaning, no matter who they support, I don't think anybody would continue to agitate if the electoral process that resulted in the outcome we have on our hands was transparent and patently obviously fair. So that is where I believe we have problems. INEC promised certain things. INEC made very firm assurances. INEC asked Nigerians to rest and relax, that these elections will be free, will be transparent, will be credible, will be fair. But from even the reports of a lot of international observers and some of our most credible local observers, the elections were anything but transparent. And even as I speak to you now, the upload of results sheets on the IRF portal for the presidential elections is still not at 100%, no shockingly. So I think that this has set the tone for what we have in the country now. It has left a lot of people feeling extremely aggrieved. Like we said in the immediate aftermath of the elections, if you do the analysis, the simple mathematics, you find that for the first time in political history, at least in the Fourth Republic, the winning candidates won less than 50% of the votes that were cast. Less than 50%, they won 36%. The other two candidates, and it's also the first time that we've had the losing candidates sharing such a large proportion of the votes. So what that will do is that there's a large proportion of the electorate that are unhappy with the outcome. And that is what we're seeing now. And that's what we're seeing a lot of grievances being expressed. That's what we're seeing a lot of people saying things like the constitution must not hold and all of that. I think that this is unfortunate. Sadly, there is very little that can be done about this other than to rely on legal processes that have been provided by the Constitution and the Electoral Act to redress, to seek redress, and hopefully secure justice. Until that is done, I think all parties will simply have to try as much as possible to abide by the by the electors and the spirit of the law. We can't, because we're not happy with the outcome of elections, we can't throw the entire country into bedlam and chaos. Nobody's interest will be solved by that. So I think that both from this on the part of the winners, the ATC, and on the losing side, the PDP and the Labour Party is losing at least according to INEC. I think everybody must shift their swords and try as much as possible to act with decorum so that we don't throw the country into anarchy leading up to the inauguration afterwards. But I'm just wondering, this is not the first time that elections, I'm not trying to encourage evil as it were, but this is not the first time elections have been rigged in this country. This is not the first time INEC Chairman has promised us a very, very free and fair election. Morrissey Wood did the same thing, Jega did the same thing and now Yakubu did the same thing. They all promised us. So why is it like this is one of a kind? Why is this uproar happening even after elections, so many weeks after elections, in fact months after elections as it were? What is so special about this one? Well, no, what's special is that hopes were raised. Before this election, I belong to civil society and I know the amount of work that we put in in terms of voter education, public enlightenment and all of that, encouraging people to go get their voter cards, PBCs, the PBCs of power and so on and so forth. We did that primarily because INEC, especially the INEC Chairman, was very reassuring in his body language, in his mannerisms, in his words. The Electoral Act itself presented a scenario that appeared to be potentially rigged into. If you look at the prohibitions of the law, when you combine the voter accreditation by BEVAS, the method of accreditation by BEVAS, the fact that we're moving away from the card reader, where cards could fail. We're moving to biometric verification that depended on either your fingerprint or your face, recognition of your face, you know, your facial features, combining that with transmission of results directly from the polling unit. This is very key. Transmission of results into the central server from each BEVAS and upload of results sheets into IRF from the polling unit, you know, and then you then continue from there with the standard, the old process of manipulation. Now, those three provisions that Technology was going to introduce give a scenario that assured people and people believed a lot of, so you saw 10 million new registrations before this election. It was unprecedented. This was because a lot of people that had never voted before that probably would not have voted listened to what we were saying in civil society, what INEC was saying, talking about how much this election had moved us further into the future, how much the provisions of the law and the technology and the guidelines that INEC had put out was going to prevent, you know, religion. The outcome that we were confronted with and the manner in which it happened, the way uploads failed nationwide. You know, we have to just step back, sit back and think about this. Uploads failed nationwide in the 176,000 polling units simultaneously. You know, for anybody that is a technology enthusiast, you know that the chances of a 100% technology failure is very remote. So that immediately raised questions about manipulation and deliberate sabotage. And this, you know, once you have people having doubts, especially in a scenario where their hopes had been previously raised, you know, really everybody was raring to go. There was so much enthusiasm. People believed genuinely that their vote would count and the person that they wanted to vote for and they wanted to see become president would emerge when that vote was dashed in such brazen manner. And then in the aftermath of that election that was so controversial, the body language and the conduct and the utterances of the winning parties exacerbated the feelings, the grievances that were filling the mouth content and made things just terrible. So that is what has set the tone for what we are seeing now where people are in an unprecedented manner. Some are even saying that the inauguration should not hold. That's how bad people feel. So I think what set the tone for this is the amount of vote that has been created before the election and how much of an anticlimax the elections itself then turned out to be and how those hopes were dashed, you know. Hope deferred, making the heart say, the holy book says, the worst thing you can do to a human being is to take hope away from them when they become both places as good as they're dead. And you know, when a man feels that he's dead and there's no hope, believe me there's nothing that he cannot do. Now, I like this saying that they didn't know wrong because electronic transmission, rather, of results was not a must. They didn't need to do it, so they have done no wrong and this election is credible, is fair and whoever imaged, imaged credibly. Now, I don't know, they quoted a lot of paragraphs, a lot of sections of whatever guided them to do the election. Do you think we'll ever get out of this if INEC continues this way? They have hired a lot of lawyers to also defend them in court and all that. And, you know, what do you think about that? They say they did no wrong at all. I think INEC has bombed these elections badly and to say they did no wrong is, well, you would expect them to say that, I think it's very, unfortunately, not true. And I also must say I've heard this argument so many times and I laugh. Look, INEC is under compulsion. It is compulsory for them to transmit elections electronically. Their own guidelines said so. You know, we have to understand this. It's not optional. I've heard a lot of people say that, not compulsory, the Electoral Act did not specifically say that the Constitution also did not specifically say that results must be transmitted electronically. But they feel to recognize that, you know, when you are making laws, every law derives power from somewhere. So the Constitution derives its power from the people, from the mandate, from our franchise, right? We vote for the National Assembly and then they enact the Constitution and that Constitution begins to guide us based on the franchise we gave to the National Assembly. And then every other law that we operate derives their power from the Constitution. The Electoral Act derives its power from the Constitution and lays out how INEC is supposed to conduct elections. Now that Electoral Act specifically stipulated that INEC would shall, that's the word the Electoral Act said, shall prescribe the method for which elections shall be conducted in the country. It's a must. Now INEC then, following that law, released the guidelines. By that token, the guidelines have become, have attained the force of law. The guidelines are an extension of the Electoral Act which is an extension of the Constitution. The guidelines are a law. The guidelines in INEC's guideline stipulated clearly that the results will be transmitted at the polling unit. It is very clearly spelled out in black and white, right? The transmission of results and upload of results, two very distinctly different things were stipulated in those guidelines. It is the law. It is not optional anymore. INEC cannot change that rule midstream just at their convenience. Now those guidelines also specifically make provisions for collation of results. Please, let's make a distinction between transmission and collation. The transmission of results and the upload of results were supposed to be a control for the collation of results. Collation of results was meant to be guide manual. Now the collation of results, the guidelines stipulated clearly that results were going to be collated from the result sheets that were, that had been uploaded already. That is the stipulation of the Electoral, sorry, the guidelines of INEC. Now section 93 of those guidelines now made provisions for situations where uploads failed or where electronic transmission failed. INEC is then required to go to the police and collect copies of the result sheet, EC38A, I believe that's the number, from the police and that is what will be used for collation at the collation centers. So that is the only provision within the law where INEC would be expected to deviate from using the uploaded and transmitted results. INEC had or has to show the world that they did that. If they did not, then they have failed to comply with the law and we will wait to hear what the opinion of the Supreme Court of this. But I think that it's very simple, it's very straight also. INEC cannot say that, oh, we are at liberty to transmit if we so please. I'm sorry, they are not. If that were to be the case then, it simply means that INEC can just do whatever they want based on their own claims and purposes and they will no longer have the rule of law, would have the rule of chairman of INEC or the rule of INEC. So it doesn't work that way. Okay, well we will just take a short break and when we return we'll be, we'll still be looking at what is going on right now. We cannot have a national, interim national government that's from a lot of people who are saying no to interim national government. And some people are saying the inauguration must not hold because of the many issues that are happening and even others are saying if these issues need to be trashed, they should be trashed before May 29th. Well, we'll be joined by Taiwo Olapade, a public affairs analyst who will also be talking with Cheyoon Shopouton when we return from the break. You're welcome back. It's still Plus Politics on Plus TV Africa and we're looking at what is going on in the political space and how feasible it is that we're going to have a May 29th that will have peace, that will help us move on as a nation. Granted that all the people will come together and do the needful and then we move on. I did promise you that we're going to be joined by Taiwo Olapade and he has just joined us here to also join the Cheyoon Shopouton to talk on what is going on in our political space. Taiwo, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, well, we're talking with Cheyoon and trying to answer some questions that we're asking ourselves. We're just trying to wrap our heads around what is happening now. We see in the Labour Party there's a problem. We see in the PDP there's a problem. We see even in the APC that has been declared winners of the presidential election there is a problem. Some word excursions are spending some people, some things, a lot of things are just happening within the parties and between the parties and we're looking at how we can solve these problems before the day of inauguration and then move on. Why do you think these things are happening now and what is the possible outcome you think will be out of all this thing? Well, we are having this crisis within parties because most of the political parties in the country they lack internal democracy and that's where democracy starts from. If within your political arena you cannot organize a free and fair election where a winner will emerge then how will it be possible for you if you contest against another political party and you lost at that election? How will you assert the conduct of that exercise? If within your own political party you lack internal democracy and that's where all these fallouts, the hula-baloo, the crisis started from. You will see a scenario where a candidate that people think is a people's choice declaring intention to contest for a political party is a popular candidate but the leadership of the party may not want that candidate and in the other way around you see another candidate imagine another aspirant imagine the candidate of that party going into an election and maybe by a paraventure they may lose at that election because they have not fielded the choice of the people but the leadership who handles who is in charge of the party, party's machinery would take a decision and say this is the person that we want maybe because money has a sting and for another reason that we may not know of but basically the reason why we have challenges across party lines there is no party as we speak now that does not have one challenge or the other we are talking about electing the leadership of national assembly and we know that by the arrangement the leadership of the national assembly particularly the president of the Senate and the speaker of the House of Representatives the arrangement we have is the party with the largest number of elected representatives we have about we have heard majority of the House of Rep's election during the February 25 but besides some staggered election because of the fallout in the crisis year and day but as we speak, APC have about 160 elected House of Rep members PDPR has about 106 and other political parties but if you look at it this is not the kind of scenario that we heard in 2019 APC won the majority that nobody will contest with them when it comes to choosing the leadership but this one, if you put the opposition political parties together they have more elected representatives than the 160 House of Rep is made up of 3060 members but as we speak right now there is possibility that if APC does not put its House in order a personal party may become the speaker of the House of Rep's but for the Senate one of nine senators we have about 50 APC senators elected at the moment we have about 20 something for PDP, Libo NMPP Social Democratic Party ABGA sharing the remaining and we have about a few number of senators to be also fueled to come in the staggered election but I'm just saying that because we lack internet democracy and you know we have close about seven senators seven top ranking senators that are just to become the Senate president including Ahmed Lawa who is about also finishing his first term as a Senate president how come that this political party cannot agree and support one candidate among them so that's where the crisis start from and I said that because they lack internet democracy and we continue to have this problem until we get to a point that the party will agree a maybe a consensus candidate or if possible they could also organize a primary election that will not just seem to be free but free and fair in all ramifications so that they will go into a general election but in the case we continue to have some people being forged on other members of the political party definitely there will be crisis the crisis within political party is more than crisis between APC and PDP the one within the crisis within APC or PDP or ABGA as the case may be that goes beyond the crisis APC having with PDP is having there with APC or NPP is having with PDP the crisis within is more and if we don't resolve the crisis within how we will to forge a common ground to fight the enemy now it's a worrisome thing let me just ask both of you now because when we talk about democracy we will be looking at trying to iron out a lot of things the way the people behave not just political parties and all that and we are trying to build a democracy that will be built on ideology and so many other things that are globally accepted and then you come back to Nigeria and you see a situation where because a political personality or a politician in a particular place was not able to deliver his word he will be branded an anti-party person and maybe removed from the party which means the next election circle he will result to a do or die affair so that he will retain his position what will that do to our democracy how we need to begin to talk about what kind of harm that kind of thing is to our democracy and what needs to be done to both the parties and the people who make these as a yardstick to belong to a party you must deliver your word whether by any means just deliver your party let's just know the implication of actions like these to a democracy that we are trying to protect let me start with you Shokwitson can you hear me yes I can hear you we can hear you alright thank you so the very critical question that you asked democracy I think it's important that we understand that democracy should be first and foremost about participation about the freedom of participation in the process of governance elections are only a small subject of the entire democratic experience and in light of what it does call what we have here especially where elections are almost of our democratic experience both the elections are over the idea of democracy as far as politicians are concerned ends and you then have leadership taking over so now when you have this question where you are concerned don't you constantly ask first of all about participation then you have a special where this type of tendency that you speak about and that play very big those questions in the future so first of all I think opportunities need to be reminded that the fact that I use my community or that I use my world does not make me less of an asset to my part because there is more the democratic process than that if I win 10 votes from my only unit of 2000 votes from my local government of my world I have contributed to the total number of votes that my party won the entire election and let's not also forget that this is supposed to be teamwork so I don't understand where these parties are coming from however I think it's important to note the context within which this public trend has re-evaluated in the past yes we have had prominent politicians whose either their only unit or their votes or even their states you know and people have pulled them over that but in this particular election it has become particularly more prominent because politicians in some parts are openly fraternizing with a candidate in all that part and there is a very huge example the early party in the room River State who is one of the most prominent members of the PDP perhaps it can be argued that they are the strongest member the life force of that party actively worked against the presidential candidate of the PDP in this election he ensured that the ABC won the PDP in his own state now is that anti-party activity well no we openly can bust against the party so you also have to go back to question because you know if you have people who are deliberately working against the interest of their party how can we trust them to work for the generality of Nigeria let me is that supposed to be what democracy is about are you not supposed to you know even if your party is doing something and you find out that it doesn't align with what you think is the best for the country for instance and you opt out and join hands with someone or a group that feels that they can do it through another means and then you openly declare is that not supposed to be what democracy is must you follow and just take hook, line and sinker just because it is your political party look democracy is there is freedom of association for those who have associated I think that the brand of democracy that we must fight is a brand where there is an ideology and there is ethics and there is some sort of honor and integrity I cannot stay within one political party and deliberately work against the interest of that party if you believe that that party is not going the line that you believe in and you do not support where they are going you have the option as it is allowed in any democracy to resign your membership you can even join another party what I don't understand is especially when you stay within one party work against the interest of that party in one election and then work for the interest of that party in the next election in the same election cycle I think we cannot afford to encourage that type of practice I think you know and again I need to point out that this has happened in this election because you know we are seeing a candidate has emerged or a number of candidates have emerged that have been in national presence in national clouds to win the presidential elections and they are gathering support across political fights that's why we see this tendency that we see however I think that should not be encouraged I think that people should be encouraged to deal and play with integrity so that we don't then continue to encourage the idea that this is a dirty game and do whatever it takes I'm not sure that would be in other climes politicians have missed in the public space whatever they do behind the scenes but in the public space they are expected to be able to deal where they fail to do so people will resign and I think we need to come in that direction because our time is going very fast and there are other things that we need to cover my question to you is do you think the political actors in our country right now are doing what they are supposed to do to bring about the healing that we need right now for instance the president elect is he doing enough is he talking enough is he giving us enough body language that will tell us that he really needs this piece the people who are in the opposition who also claim that they want the unity of this country are they doing enough what else do they need to do to make sure that we arrive at that piece that we so desire before I provide answer to that question just permit me to quickly give two examples of the way politicians leave one party for another party because of lack of internal democracy Senator Ian Abarubé has been representing Abia South since 2007 on the platform of the PDP in the build-up to 2023 elections he was denying the ticket of that same Abia South because the outgoing governor Governor Okazi Ikwazu was also interested to go to the senate what did he do he left the PDP for him to take the ticket of Abga and he won the sitting governor hands down and that shows that people of Abia South love Senator Ian Abarubé is that what we are discussing about lack of internal democracy within political space another example is Abdujubri Mumin he has been also around in the house of rest for three times that's about 12 years in the build-up to this election he left the PDP to join APC to the 2015 February February 25th he left APC again to take the ticket of the Labour Party and today he has been re-elected on the platform of the Labour Party but come to your question the body language of the president that I see that I know I think he's ready to also ensure that in his inaugural speech he said it loud and clear with the hands of Fellowship Brotherhood but beyond that in inaugural speech after that till this moment has he done enough? I want to believe with his body language that Ashwaju will form a cabinet that will represent all the overall interest of this country and what we need we need a government of national unity fine for integration of the entire country to come on board on merit because at the moment now we are the crossroads we need people who have the credibility who have the capacity to do that and not just we need people who have been selected on merit and not because I know you know me we are the crossroads and if you are not careful and that's exactly what we are talking about even for the ruling party we should have the increase of the people and the nation at heart and that's the only way Ashwaju can succeed on this mandate that has been given to him by hitting on the endurance of their robots Mr. Shokuton we have one minute left now do you think they are doing enough to make sure to bring about this piece that we want? No I don't think they are doing enough I don't think the president is doing enough I don't think the APC are doing enough I don't think that the labor party is doing enough I think the candidates of the labor party Mr. Victoria are very consistent but the other and I think that's also because of them but the parties themselves we need to blame their members the APC and Ashwaju Kola Netanyahu we need to run for the message that we have now is a situation where people like Pestos Kayamu and people like Femme Panikaiyode and people like Bayon Onuga are in the social media space and on air on national TV basically stoking up sentiment in a situation where people are already feeling aggrieved you know so I don't think that the APC in particular is sending out enough of the conciliatory message and I also want to say to the people in the labor party that we should not continue to project the message of Amagedon that it is bitter or bitter for Nigeria there is no such thing and I think that we need to reign our emotions and hopefully continue to put pressure on the Supreme Court and the judiciary to ensure that just and then hopefully we can navigate these delicate days ahead but I think we need to do more possible. Okay, there's been calls that whatever the problem is all the litigations, everything should be resolved before May 29 maybe that is not a possibility but we do hope that we will still have this Nigeria standing and we will be united even more than ever before to build our country to the El Dorado of our dreams. Thank you so much Mr. Shagun Shapatom for coming on the program today. And also Mr. Taiwo Thank you so much for being Thank you so much for having me. Okay, we do hope that we'll return tomorrow with yet another addition, another topic to discuss until then on behalf of the entire team of Plus Politics my name is Nyam Gul Agadji Thank you for being there.