 Hello. Thank you to everyone for joining. Michael D'Ocasio here, Associate Editor at Forbes, and we are here speaking with three of our current members of the Forbes Blockchain 50 list. Before we get started, I just wanted to take a minute to talk about the criteria to be on the list because the criteria, I think, is what gives the list meat. It gives the list teeth, maybe I should say. In order to qualify for the list, first of all, you have to be valued at a billion dollars or more or be generating a billion dollars or more in revenue. And you have to be doing meaningful work in blockchain. Meaningful is a very subjective word, but we do our best to make that as objective as possible. So to give just a quick idea, if you're a billion dollar company, meaningful might be a team of five or 10 people. If you're a 40 billion dollar company, the buried entry is a lot higher. So the idea is to identify known companies, usually, or rising stars in the space that have recently crossed that billion dollar milestone and who are doing more than dabbling. And so I think that's what the idea of meaningful is trying to get to, that these firms have committed serious resources. And if you're a billion dollar company or a 40 billion dollar company, what serious resources means might be different. And our team of 12 to 15 editors, depending on how you measure it, really gets down into the numbers. So we do, I guess you called a request for proposal or a public questionnaire to nominees. And we try and get as much data as possible. Once we narrow that list, we hop on the phone with leaders at the companies. We ask questions. We try to understand what's behind the numbers. And we get together and we really duke it out. We have a team of people across the company that represent various expertise. So for example, it's not just me on the blockchain side. We have a healthcare editor helping us parse through the healthcare data. We have an energy editor helping us parse through the energy data. And the dream is that the 50 companies that come out the other side are sort of mile markers in the industry. And industry might be a little bit too broad of a term in that the underlying blockchain technology is so broadly applicable. And as Brian mentioned, we do have some companies that are on there for crypto applications, i.e. not enterprise blockchain. So occasionally a micro strategy or a coin base will also slip on there. So with that said, I just want to give a quick overview of kind of where we're going to go with our conversation today. One of the fun challenges about leading a panel with completely different companies is sort of trying to find that through line. And I think in order to do that, what I want to do is I want to start local. I want to start with a very specific use case that these companies are working on. And then we're going to kind of take, step up a notch every question and get more and more high level, more and more abstract and hopefully get to a place where by the time we're wrapping things up, we're all kind of looking down from the same place at enterprise blockchain in general. Specifically though, last thing before I let our esteemed panelists talk, I wanted to just quickly highlight something that Brian said in his opening remarks about Cactus Weaver and UE, three code bases that are sensible competitors that sort of figured out how to work together and are in the process of figuring out how to work together. Importantly across borders, I think if you look behind the scenes, each of these code bases has different regional bases. And it's only makes sense that they would be working separately at the start, but Hyperledger helps bring them together. And so I want to focus on that. If you look closely at the event name, that's the global reach of the Forbes Blockchain 50. So we will be looking at how these different use cases are working with others, probably not how they're working with each other, but we'll try and learn some lessons there. So to kick things off, I'd like to ask Shue, if you could please walk us through one of these two, either the biggest blockchain application that China Construction Bank has, or the newest, most secret one that no one's ever heard of. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Michael. Everybody, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And I'm glad to hear again in the last two years, I'm on behalf of CCB attended the panel first. And this year is happy again to be here. And regarding to the application, which is highlighted this year, I would like to the application of CCB Trade Finance. And I remember the last year, I also mentioned this. Here, I would like to update the latest progress of this from below three aspects. And the first one is about the ecosystem in the last year in 2020. We successfully connected to the to the other major banks in China, like bank of communication, postal saving banks in China, and the bank. And also we export our underneath blockchain based system and the platform to the China banking association. And this is a very big progress because it helped us to build a second big global bill market. And that the connection between these, these, these financial institutions is also based on the cross chain model cross chain technology, and that the technology helped to, to, to improve the efficiency, especially for the for fading business. So till now the newly increased financial institutions institutes about 38. And the average transaction volume per year is about 500 billion RMB. And that the cumulative transaction volume is has exceeded the 1000 billion RMB. So this is the first aspect I want to mention. The second is about the refactoring. So first is there is ecosystem. Second is refactoring. And in the last year, on the basis of existing applications, we realized the ecosystem's integration with the industries leading platform like China, enterprise, cloud, chain. This helped to reconstructed the product process and helped to provide the better finance system, financial system for the SMEs. So till now, our enterprise clients has exceeded 65,000. And the financial volume exceeds 120 billion RMBs. So this is second part is about the latest progress of the trade finance. And the third one is about the blockchain based, blockchain based logistics finance platform. In China, there is a city named Qingdao in Shandong province. And this last year, we launched a pilot in Qingdao branch, Qingdao CCB Qingdao branch. And the five local customers help us collaborate with us together. And we successfully to deal with about five, sorry, 350 transactions totally. And the cumulative finance amount is about 420 million RMBs. So at present, CCB has collaborated with large-scale logistic local enterprises and also the third party supervision platforms. So this collaboration helped us to solve the problem for different blockchain platforms integration and also the asset digitalization. And this really helped the China SMEs, the small and the medium enterprise to get the inclusive finance services from CCB. Yeah. Thank you so much for that, Matt. I wanted to thank you also for bringing those numbers. I had asked that because I've been around for a while as Brian indicated. And I remember the first one of these, I don't think there were any numbers because nothing had really launched. And so I love opportunities to kind of bring that out and talk about the real stuff that's happening. Also, I think the scale of the work you guys are doing over there is notable. I just wanted to make sure we had a chance to talk about that. Moving on, Rajesh, could you walk us through the same thing? I'll give you the same question. Either the biggest blockchain application that Tech Mahindra is working on or the most secret new one that nobody knows about, your choice? How about talking about both, Michael? So I would like to talk about the biggest and also is filling the beans, the secret one. So I would like to talk about both. Obviously, the biggest is the one that has been recognized by your team in the Forbes 50 listing, which is primarily using Hyperledge Fabric protocol to insulate over 1 billion subscribers in India from the spam calls and the spam text. Just to give a perspective of the numbers, there are about 30, more than 36 peers in this particular network. Walt's first largest multi-cloud implementation of Hyperledge Fabric, the number of channels exceed about 20. And at this point of time, this network is catering to 230 million preferences of the subscribers. And it has about 1.7 million consent and the rest 500 million, half a billion consent is under migration. We expect the transaction per second to be 200 and using our on-chain and off-chain combination, we expect it to go to about 4,000 transactions per second. That is the scale of volume. And thanks to the coverage, Michael, this is being used as a de facto gold standard for implementation in different parts of the world. The latest is the US government is also taking a look at this particular implementation from a perspective of integrating blockchain into the Stur and shaken protocols that they have already announced. So that by far is the biggest ever application that Tech Mahendra has architected. Now coming to the secret one. The secret one is the one where we would like to leverage again the size of the masses and the size of the scale. That's where we want to bring non-fundable tokens to the exciting world of Cricket. Cricket is now being played in about 11 countries. The game is catching on and the number of people who are playing the game is only increasing day by day. Given that we would like to create a non-fungible token platform for all the cricketing fans. If the basketball fans are able to enjoy, why not the cricket fans? So we would like to take this particular platform. And the good thing is we are also looking at integrating non-fungible tokens into the Hyperledger platform. We already have another blockchain platform called Blockchain Powered Contracts and Rights Management System which helps the companies in media and entertainment space to manage their digital rights management, facilitate track and tracing and also to ensure that proper geo-blocking is there. And that is the platform which enables that. As a first step, we are integrating NFTs into that particular platform so that in addition to DRM which will help a person to establish the rightful ownership of a digital asset, whether it is a music file, whether it is a video file or whether it's a picture file. In addition to that, we would like them to further reiterate their ownership with an underlying non-fungible token. That is what we are doing from a perspective of B2B. First time ever NFTs will be brought into the purview of business to business transactions. The second logical extension of that is to take it to the world of cricket, wherein we would like to empower all the cricketing clubs, all the cricketing organizations in the world to monetize their cricketing assets with an ability to create a marketplace to mint tokens and sell those tokens. So these are the things that we are working on Michael. I love that. I do think that we're looking for the evidence of traction. Certainly blocked calls is one that impacts many of us personally. I'm excited to hear that you're in conversations with the U.S. government because we definitely need some help. I love the fact, I remember in the early days there was, at least in the media, there was uncertainty about whether or not permissionless public block or permissionless open block chains and private block chains could both do tokenization. Obviously, we've gone way beyond that and there's permissioned block chains doing tokenization across the board. It will be cool to see NFTs wiggle their way into the hyperledger conversation. And last but certainly not least, Jose Luis, kind sir, if you could please walk us through, I'll give you the same question, either the biggest, most high, the highest transaction volume blockchain application at Telefonica or the most secret one that you want to unveil. Okay. Thank you, Michael. First of all, I want to thank you for inviting Telefonica to join this panel about the global rates of blockchain because I think that all the companies that today working on blockchain, we are thinking globally because in the end we don't have any kind of restrictions about the hardware or licensing or whatever. We are just software solutions that can solve a lot of challenges to a lot of companies around the world. So, okay. How about the question, the biggest and the secret? Probably the biggest use case that we are still pushing inside Telefonica is how we are managing our home equipment supply chain. So how we are delivering the routers and the set of boxes of all this kind of equipment from the warehouse, from the factories that we are assembling until after the full chain until that the installers connect to the network. So we started internally this project three years ago, three, four years ago. It's one of the first projects that we started to adopt blockchain in Telefonica. And we are currently managing all the equipment that is being delivered and installing in our operation in Brazil. So all the operations are being managed by blockchain, a private blockchain running on HyperLayer Fabric Network with more than 60 warehouse, internal warehouse, also subcontractors and all the workforce of installers that are going to our customer's home with the set of boxes and connected to the network. So the most challenging activities that we are running right now is to push this project, this kind of initiative based on blockchain to all the operations around the world that we have in Telefonica. So the next countries in which we are going to deploy the same solution is to manage operation in Spain, also in Europe and of course in the rest of Latin America. So this is the first project that we have started in the past and it's still the biggest one. I love it. Go ahead. Okay, so before talking or speaking about the circuit, it's the other approach that we have in Telefonica because we started to understand what would be the use case that we can adopt blockchain. And obviously a lot of papers, the analysts are very interested to say that we have to do things with other telco operators in order to be efficient or efficiently manage the roaming and the telco services. So we are pushing that and in the next weeks we are going to announce this kind of collaboration with other telco operators involving also the GSMA with finally success cases of how we are managing our core services with blockchain, how we are making efficient, more efficient the dispute resolution processes and the agreement, the discount agreements and these kind of things that will run in the past a lot of proof concepts, but finally we have a kind of common infrastructure in which we can develop real use cases based on this case. And finally the more circuit and the more massive approach that we have for how we can adopt blockchain is how we can bring them to have a little proposition for our V2V customers. So we really think that blockchain can help a lot of companies in being more efficient or letting more incomes in these times. So we get all the learnings that we have with this internal project of how we can benefit as Telefonica to blockchain and bring them to our customers. So we develop a kind of platform because our aim is how to make blockchain massive for any kind of company. So regardless the technological profile or the size of the company, we think that any company can get benefits from blockchain and we are just in this way. So we are deploying the platform, trying that any company, the small companies that can invest in having a blockchain team can use blockchain and this is the main challenge that we have for the next month and that's our own product that is FastOS could be this kind of layer that makes a blockchain option totally massive for all the companies in our first thing. And you mentioned expanding into a couple of different regions by name. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think each of your companies has in their own way started with their own regions and are working with banks or telephone providers etc that are closest to home and building up those networks within the borders of your company's home country so to speak. But then that idea that once you set that up and once you get transaction volumes running through and once you prove that your technology works that you want to start reaching beyond those borders sort of the network effects of big networks and that the benefits grow exponentially. So from a strategy perspective if you could each take just one or two minutes feel free to riff off each other if you hear something the other one says that reminds you of something you're working on and talk about how you took those first and second steps to go from your network at home to a bigger network with broader network effects that reached across borders. Did you have inbound requests? Did you make requests to other people? Was it working in groups like Hyperledger or other open source groups? How do you go from step one at home to reaching a global audience? I can start so in our case for instance we are working in several consortia like Hyperledger with a global reach but for instance with Alastair is the Spanish consortium and even in Alastair we are having a lot of working or a lot of collaboration with other countries with other initiatives that all of them are or have a local approach. So in Europe we are part of FSC and we are working with the European blockchain infrastructure in the next months and it's again a or a transnational initiative in which notarization services or financial living services could be cross-border because of the own nature of blockchain networks as you say. So we are expanding step by step but probably if the technology becomes massive it's because we are reaching a lot of companies with global perspective too. So we are partnering with several big companies that are not based also or only in Spain or in their own countries, they are multinational that are also expanding with us the reach of the networks. And can you give an idea as you expand is it the same kind of benefits just on a bigger scale or do you start to see different kinds of benefits as your networks get bigger? I think that if we talk about blockchain we are talking about networks and if we are talking about the network the value of the blockchain is the value that all the network all the members in the network are getting. So it's the the traditional concept of wing-wing. So it's it's not only wing-wing it's wing-wing-wing-wing with all the members that we are joining to the network. So it's to clarify just a little bit maybe for those for those of us who aren't in the business give me one example of how using a blockchain is more efficient more cost effective than the traditional centralized accounting structure. I'm monopolizing the conversation but I can go ahead. So for instance in our surface case of the supply chain in Brazil is something related with something that in the previous panel you were talking about it's about the analytics and how we can post a lot of data in common from different sorts of information for instance we are we have monitor value or we have some decisions in order to optimize how the different workshops are working inside the workshops but putting all the information together in the same blockchain we can optimize or making decisions in one warehouse in order to affect or impact the full chain. So we are making decisions probably with information that comes from the other warehouse and we are working with our blockchain we don't have this visibility we have to make a point-to-point integration between different information systems from different warehouse and we can optimize my warehouse with information on the full chain. So the main benefit of this kind of use case of being more efficient with operation is this kind of exchange of information and how we can make analytics to make this decision with a holistic perspective. So with that in mind I'm turning back to Shua and Rajesh how did you guys take those first steps from the early networks built around your headquarters and the companies that you already knew into cross-border territory? Definitely Michael so in our case two things have held a lot one is in terms of the regulatory push as you know the initiative of blockchain for spam calls was initiated under the ages of the telecom regulatory authority of India and because of that particular push the telcos have got together otherwise this problem would have remained unsolved with the traditional technologies if the traditional technologies had the potential to solve spam is not an invention of last one or two years spam is an invention over the last 10 years this problem should have been solved about 10 years ago the fact is because blockchain came this problem has been solved so that's a very good example about the ability of blockchain and more important it's making it real for the common man on the street and the regulator role there played I mean it has accelerated the adoption but with that it brought what we call as the first mover advantage the fact that it got implemented for the first time in India became a reference point elsewhere for example the regulator in united arab Emirates have asked ethi salat and do telecom to replicate what india has done and ethi salat and do telecom have done it because there was a regulatory push but in markets like uk spam is not that prominent in mobile phones spam is prominent on landlines so the office of communications in uk want to adopt this to prevent spam on the landlines where people just pick up the directory and dial the number and start selling services and goods and so on and so forth right and in united states FCC has asked ietf to come up with these regulations and ietf has taken a perspective saying moment you see a robocall or moment you see a text that originates from a vgo ip channel shut it down by using the cryptography and by using stir and shaken kind of protocols there the focus is on shutting it down as and when it happens the focus is not on elimination of the problem completely the elimination can happen as is the case it was evident in the indian market only when all the telcos come together and they agree to share the information and then take a industry wide initiative to eliminate this malice to eliminate this particular problem so what i'm trying to tell you is there is no one particular strategy that has worked for us it is a combination of two or three things the adoption and the regulatory push to drive the adoption by all the operating companies in the industry which has led to a successful consortium effort the second one is a pull and push kind of a thing in markets where regulators wanted to replicate it they used a push strategy in the markets where regulators were not forthcoming we went and presented these case case studies leveraging avenues like you know whether it is Forbes or whether it is a special interest group of telecom under hyper ledger scheme of things or whether it is special interest groups that are there with large tech providers like IBM Microsoft and the others and the and the third one is is the first mover advantage that's what we are trying to leverage in the world of cricket also with respect to creating non-fungible tokens once you created for cricket it gets replicated in other sports areas as well something tells me that one's gonna spread very organically um the going back though to the spam calls how how cross border is that you know i think many of us at least my speak on my own behalf i don't know where these spam calls come from are they coming from the office up the road from me are they coming from the other side of the world like is spam calls um a cross border problem um or is it usually confined within a phone network within a region so there are there are two or three areas one is in terms of spam that originates from registered marketeers it is originating from registered marketeers because they overlook some of the provisions so from that perspective we would like to go back and tell them hey while you have a right to send information in this case you do not have the consent from the subscriber so you're violating the preferences of a subscriber so you need to prevent doing that and we we give uh we give uh documentary evidence for that and not only pertaining to one particular network but across the networks then comes the second scenario where spam is by unregistered telemarket use these guys are like nomads they go and set up what we call as a sim farm on local telco networks and when the complaints start mounting on that particular telco network the telco takes an action and the telco shuts them down then they go to an another network set up the same sim farm and then they move from one network to another network so this kind of an implementation prevents that cross pollination of the sim farms on different networks the third one is coming from cross border wherein they go and take subscriptions through from the networks which do not which are not in India and and and the spam is coming from cross borders and that to be very candid with you that is still not covered under the scope of implementation that we have currently it is because the implementation pertains only to all the telco operators in India but what these telco operators can do is whenever they see that kind of traffic coming through the telco gateway they can shut it down but the ability of these guys go and seek subscriptions in the cross border telco networks will always be there but the inbound messages and inbound calls when they go detected the participating telcos in India can shut it down really quick is there is there one is there one number to give us an idea how bad was spamming in India before regulators had to force a change oh before the regulators I can give you the number and I can give you my personal experience the number is on an average really quick yeah on an average every active subscriber gets about 15 to 20 spam messages and 15 to 20 calls in my case whenever I land from from the airport the first call I get is from a spammer and not from my family the spammer knows that I've arrived arrived and I have landed much faster than my family member that's heartbreaking Shueh last but certainly not least so when we had our chance to talk before this panel you had mentioned that there were a couple overseas banks that you had recently started working with if I if I took my notes down right I think you're currently working with 38 institutions on your trade finance application have you expanded into other territories and if not walking me through kind of how how are you going about doing that okay the cross border collaboration of the trade finance there the number has no big change and this is the ccb overseas branches and I would like to echo and answer your question from maybe different angles you mentioned that the maybe the network expansion within the border or cross border as we know that we has that the blockchains has made me more than 10 years of history and in China as we observed there is the problem is not lack of network but maybe there are so many small and medium network here and we know that the the the the different industry various industry has built or joined the existing blockchain ecosystem and maybe according to their early needs but due to the early technology adoption and the the lacking of the standards globally and internationally and maybe local the different blockchain system has different technology routes and especially communication protocols identity management and other other aspects so I think this is also a some major major challenges when we expand our network so we observe and we notice that maybe the future main three major challenges in technology is the cross border of sorry cross chain cross chain inter inter operation and maybe the security and the privacy protection and the scalability so so so I think for from the from the globally from the internationally we also call for and welcome any inter collaboration and collaboration across different parties to solve these three major technical challenges yeah thank you so much for that it's actually gives me a perfect segue into the last question which is an open one to everyone I'd like to ask you each to keep it to about a minute or so so we can make sure everyone has a chance and it's a one word question which is how right but I'll do a little expansion on that so our audience is largely I think technologists at the hyper ledger team has got together builders around the world writing software in multiple code bases written by countries all over the world and you're all doing absolutely fascinating work I loved Rajesh's example when when people weren't being proactive enough he started going to them that's a pretty interesting example of an answer to the how but what about what about you guys if members of the audience heard something that you talked about and their imaginations started clicking and maybe they have ideas about how their own software skills could help solve something that you guys are working on what's the next step yeah is there a github code base they can go to and download something is there an API they can access on your website do they need to have their marketing team reach out to your marketing team like what's the what's the first step if a developer here's something that you guys are doing that they want to get involved with in order to make that connection sure Michael reaching out to us is definitely the first step and then in addition to that we have our blockchain studio on the cloud called block studio we'll be more than happy to extend the block studio to the interested developers and at tekem we have what is called as maker's lab we have around 12 maker's labs in different parts of the world they welcome to come and then explore our maker's lab and we will give them an opportunity to incubate their offerings within our maker's lab all three options are available from us to them thank you Rajesh for the collaboration for the for the collaborate cross border collaboration and from the technical perspective our attitude is still same we are still open we are always open and we welcome and the call for the global technical partners experts to to call to connect with us contact with us so maybe here after the panel I would like to give you the the connection contact information and this is the one maybe one way the other way is that the ccb has a local branches in different countries so if they have any big progress or maybe a good idea you they could connect with our local ccb branches technical department yet they are still open yet local branches sounds like a good opportunity I'm afraid you're going to get emailed by a thousand people we better be careful there and then last but not least uh jose luiz you said some fascinating stuff what if there's developers in the audience who want to get involved what's the next step yes it's the same we have the the our product that our platform that is trust us is a set of APS to easily interact with blockchain and we are open to anybody in the world that develops their own application their own solutions on top of the trust us platform so in our web page so blockchain.com we have all the information regarding the technical classification of how to connect with trust us and even we have some start-up focused programs with wire that is the telephonic abacus start-up accelerator with a lot of presence out on the wall also and we have some programs in order to collaborate with startup and developers to develop this and to design these new solutions in order to get blockchain massive to all companies in the world so it's waiting for a lot of developers wanting to to use trust us and blockchain wonderful thank you all so much before we wrap things up I just wanted to get everybody's minds paying attention to this August this August is when Forbes is going to open up the nomination process for next year's blockchain 50 list we've got a really talented team of reporters that can make a lot happen without the company's help but it's a lot easier with your help so keep your eyes open when that nomination form comes out you might not know who at your company is going to be filling that out so if that's the case fill it out yourself let us know what you guys are doing we need to hear from you and our list gets stronger every year and quite frankly it it doesn't get stronger because we get better it gets stronger because the companies share more with us and it just helps us tell those stories better thanks to hyper ledger and everybody for the invitation to join and looking forward to seeing the next panel thank you bye bye thank you thank you bye bye