 Welcome to the Tuesday, February the 20th, 2024 meeting of the ModPillier Design Review Committee. We'll let staff and members introduce themselves. Meredith Crandall, staff. Martha Smersky, member. William Russell, member. Steven Everett, member. Rebecca Owens, member. Is Eric there? He is. Eric, you need to unmute yourself. Eric Gilbertson, member. Okay. At this point, we'll let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process. Okay. As most everybody is aware, this is mostly for people who are attending or attending watching via Orca Media. For those viewing tonight's design review meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in the discussion via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. If you want the full video experience, you can type this link into your web browser and I will get a little notification that you want to get into the meeting. Alternatively, you can dial this telephone number and when prompted put in this meeting ID and again I'll get a prompt to let you into the meeting. If anyone is trying to access the meeting and having problems, please email me at mcrandallatmontpillier-vt.org. I will be monitoring my email throughout the meeting. For those attending via Zoom, turning your video on is optional. And if anyone does get on partway through the meeting, if anybody's out watching via Orca and wants to get on when you get into the meeting, please make sure that your microphone is on mute when you're not speaking. This will help reduce background noise and we'll make sure to check in with you and give you an opportunity to comment on the items on the design reviews agenda. A reminder that the Zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. Otherwise, if somebody gets on and has a question about an item on the agenda, please raise your hand, either physically if you have the video turned on or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. If anyone calls in, you can press star 9 on your phone and this will let us all see it raise hand. In the event the public is unable to access tonight's meeting and I would get notice of that through my email. The meeting will need to be continued to a time, place, and certain. From now, hand the meeting back over to the chair. At this point, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? I'll move to approve the agenda. This is Martha. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Eric. Martha. William. Rebecca. Steven. Yep, that's everybody. Okay, agenda is approved. Unless anybody has anything else to add at this point, we'll go forward with the first application for 27 East State Street. Welcome, Paul. Describe your application. The application is a new front porch on 27 East State Street. And the process is the same thing that I've done on the barbershop building, which is to adhere to the historical, you know, norms. As I try to put it back with the same lumber in the same way that it was originally built, it had, I talked to Jimmy's brother who had repaired the porch in 1971 and said it desperately needed repairing. And the bottom line was 30 years the postman had put his foot through the decking at the top of the stairs. And the two uphill posts had completely rotted out because there's a river that comes out of the backyard when it rains. And during the flood, we lost that whole end of the porch and the roof was sagging. And it was just, you know, I would have come over and gotten a building permit, but I kind of had to do it right away. It's 2 by 12 skirt all the way around. It's 2 by 10s in the center. The only thing that's not from 1850 is the Joyce hangers. It is built up to code. It's got techno metal posts supporting the front beam across the front. And the only thing that I didn't do, the original historic posts were set on the railing and that's why the whole thing was falling down. So I opted for the square posts that come all the way up from the deck to support the roof. And then I did the framing around those. The posts are not done. We ran out of warm weather. It is going to be painted to match the house blue and white. The posts, I put a little schematic of what I'm going to do with the posts. I can't make them around, but they are going to get the original Florida Lee braces on the top. There's going to be a crown molding element on the top, a baseboard on the bottom and a chair rail for lack of a better term in the center. So the posts will be painted blue and white. The molding will get painted blue and the posts will be painted white just like the old posts. So it will, except for the squareness of it, it will be exactly the way it was back together with the original Florida Lee's. I'll get that done in the spring. And I really did try to do it historically. If you'll note, if you can see close on the thing, it's got a traditional hardwood drip edge made out of wood at the bottom of the shingles. I mean it's an 1850s porch. And you anticipate painting the shingles? The shingles will be blue, the rail, the hand rail will be white all the way around. The posts itself will be white and the trim elements on the posts will be blue. And that's what the original was. I'm just trying to keep it up with that three color Victorian paint job. One thing you can do that we have done successfully to make it look a little closer to what it was before was just to take a router and either round the edges or scallop. I will be glad to use the edge. If you look at the detail on the rail, on the hand rail, the 2x12 hand rail, I've done that all the way around and matched that. I'll be glad to do that no problem at all. It won't, I'll have to do it after I add the trim pieces because I can't, it won't flush out if I round it and then do the trim pieces. But I'll do the trim pieces and ease the edges all the way around. I'll make it as round as I can. We don't have to cut too far. But if you, it just takes about a half to three quarters on either side. And again, it can either round it off or you can cove it. I got a three quarter inch, quarter round router bit that will run right up that and just put a nice rounded edge on it. It'll also, if you do some of the trim detailing rounded, it looks continuous rather than the edge. Yeah, if you look at the hand rail, that's what I did. There's a continuous eased edge all the way around on the hand rail. I'll be glad to do that on the posts. I'm not, I mean, it's my house, it's my house. So I'm going to make it look really nice. I like to do work myself. Is there any reason when you replace the shingles on the front that you didn't do them staggered to match the original? No, they didn't have them at sticks and stuff. That's not a matter of having them. It's a matter of the carpenter just nailing them on there that way. No, I didn't do that. I'm the carpenter. So I did not do it that way. Would you like me to redo the shingles? Probably because they match that then they would match those up in the gable end, which are staggered. And that's the way it was designed. What kind of condition are the turn posts you took off in? They are not in good condition. And they are not original either. They do appear to be from the 1970s. They are hollow fabricated posts. And the bottoms of all of them are rotted out. Those turn posts are pretty readily available. I think Miles has them. I don't know about sticks and stuff. But did you look and see if you could find turn posts? Yeah, but like I said, I couldn't get a turn post. Well, so first of all, it's a considerable amount more money. And second of all, they did not have a post that would go from the deck to the roof. And I did not want to set a post on top of a railing again and have it. I mean, literally like when I, when I braced the roof up and I put my foot on the railing, it fell down. So I was within a, I was within a good storm of losing the roof. And, and it's just not a good construction technique. The, the, those square posts are framed into the deck and framed into the railing. They're not going anywhere. They'll be there for 200 years. Yeah, what other a decent timber frame or a carpenter could splice. The extensions on the bottom of posts. It's not, not a difficult joint to make. You could make a lap joint and reinforce it. There's a number of different joints you can do. I, so I do do timber framing. I'm quite good at it. And I would agree with that, except why not just use a square post. It's 100% stronger and cheaper. I think there are plenty of examples of. Turn posts and on porches that are, that are bucklings in this and. So, I don't know if we necessarily need to ask the, or just for a structural slot, if you re to read, be redone. There are a lot of porches with post balancing on railing. And there are a lot of them are a lot of them. If you're effectively putting a hinge in there, rather than a fixed fixed joints. I'm just having a problem because the turn posts are really distinctive feature in the building. It was pretty easy to see in the as built. Or the original photographs. Okay. I mean, I would like to see the original original photographs because, like I said that post that porch was built in 1971. So, I don't know the last time I was here at design review we ran up into the same problem because I wanted to replace windows on the barbershop building with energy efficient windows and I was told that I could not replace those windows I had to have them rebuilt because they are original. And when I did the demo and pour into the windows the windows were from 1975 and they were single pane, and they weren't in good shape. So, um, I, I, I don't want to get Teske about it but I try really, really hard to put these. Let me let me put it this way when I bought these two buildings, they were not anywhere near original condition. They did not look like they were from 1850 that house that I bought from Jimmy was wrapped in fake red brick tar paper. I pulled all that tar paper off I put it back to the original siding and I've rebuilt that porch, so it matches the house. I did the best I could with what I had. I've tried to keep, you know, I'm a labor force of one. Multiple projects I have to do. I can't spend, you know, an entire year rebuilding a front porch. And yet I try very hard to put it back to what it was originally. I think I did a good job. The neighbors think I did a good job. Yeah, you understand the difficulty it makes for design review. When we're reviewing something that's already been done. Got it. Didn't mean to do that. I really didn't. I've gone through the design review process several times I pull permits. I'm not. I'm not I apologize for that. I really do. The flood took out the two uphill post I was going to lose the roof. I had to get the fort short up. That's what I did. City Hall was shut down. I just, I just went ahead. I pushed ahead. I think there's a lot of examples of my work on those two buildings and I'm not. I want those houses to look like they're from 1850. That's what I want. I suspect the staggered shingles were added lonely after that, but they're part of the historic character of the house. Are you willing to redo the shingles on the On the front and staggered. No, you haven't even the old pictures of the house. Have a picture of the porch I think on there. I don't have a historic picture of that house of the front of it. I have a historic picture of the roof line. I think it's looking from the top of the hill. But that's the only one I have. I suspect those shingles are were originally staggered in the gable and sometime in the 20s. And then they were rebuilt the porch and 71. We matched them again. Yeah, I mean, honestly, if you, you know, yeah, I like the staggered shingles. I didn't really think about it. I mean, it was November 15th and it was getting quite cool. So I did. I did try to button it up for the winter. Yeah, I'll just say that I'm personally less concerned about the staggered shingles. I know that it's an historic mark, but we do. But it's, it looks like it from the photos haven't been by it looks like it's nice quality shingle work. It's of a similar scale and texture. And then you have some of that up on the on the gable. I think what, you know, what, and I do, I understand that the, that round, like, I wouldn't want to put a round post in my on a railing in my, in my own house, just because that I know it's going to move. And at some point, the, I think the concern for me is that you're a lot of these, a lot of these posts are like the color of the paint and the photos not clear enough for me to see here, but the, a lot of the color comes out where the woods taken away. And so you're, it's kind of at the where it gets smaller. Your detail is actually kind of pushing it out and making it. So I have a detail of how the post is going to look on. Right. It's, it's in the, it's in the packet. Yeah. Right. So it will be, I mean, it's not going to be as tapered in the center in between those, but it is going to go wide. You know, wide, skinny, wide, skinny. One thing that's, you know, just one, one option might be to take a small kind of a thin piece of trim and, and just mark the top and the bottom of where that color changes. So it doesn't become kind of, you know, it's going from being where it's blue, skinnier, where it's blue, it's like, big. Well, so the, but the only thing that's going to get painted blue is the actual trim pieces. Right. And then there is a, there is a delineation line where it will end and come white. Sure, but you're kind of inverting the previous. Oh, the previous way it was. Oh, so I didn't so I didn't see the pattern on the old one. You want me to paint it white, blue, white blue. No, in the sense that if you look at the, you know, look at the original photo where, and actually you can see that it appears to be square at the top and square at the bottom. Right. So, so there's some precedent for a square thing, but it's come, it comes down square. And then you have some, you know, obviously a lathe has been used to take material away from that. So where it's become the word where it's white, it's, it's the thicker part and where it's carved away. It's, it's blue. Right. So where it goes from thick white to skinny blue. It's kind of hard to see that I pulled it up. Oh, there it is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Here, right. And here where skinny and rounded. Yeah, so dark. And then, I mean, I was going to router it up. So if you, I didn't, I didn't really think of it. Meredith caught me by surprise. This is, I need a square piece so that I can get the little braces on. So I'm kind of set on that on the top, like I need to have this. I need to have that. So it either needs to go on the bear post. If you want me to just forego that this upper trim piece and just put this 40 the trim element on it on straight onto the post, and then come down. I mean, I can run multiple chair rails. I can run two small bands of chair rails and then a larger band of chair rails. It won't be a turn post, but it will match that paint job exactly. What if you rounded the edges enough to give somewhat of adherence of a rounded post, and you would just be, you would leave the top, the top and the bottom basically square. Maybe take a slight edge off, but then take more edge off here and then just paint paint that to match paint it to match. Yeah, you still have the old. Yeah, I got the post that you'll be able to even put them up next to it to get the right same general location. And then you leave the top and the bottom square and then taper it in and just go up take the sharp edge off. Yeah, and then take more off in the center section where the original post was rounded. Well that three quarter inch. You look at the pictures online. It'll be rounded. Yeah, it will be rounded significantly. To be near the end. Yeah, I did the finish work, the detail work near the end of the packet. It's quite a, it's quite a there I have one see. And I did that where all the continuous rounded edge. And I can even go one larger than that. Yeah. And so, square at the top in the top and again, come as close as you can to match the profile of the original posts. Yeah, okay. You can use the original post as a template. You just set it decided to, to market. I will come as close to the original post I can. I want to suggest a simpler solution, I guess, because I don't think this adding pieces. It is going to work out real well but I would just say do a significant chamfer of, you know, leaving some square space up at the top for your bracket and some at the bottom and do a pretty severe chamfer and on the corner, not round it, but just make a chamfered with a nice taper into the square. Okay. Sit on a straightforward. Rather, do it rather than add trim again, you can just paint the stripe around to match what was on the original post. So, from many angles, it will appear to be as close as you could get to what you had. Okay, I can match the paint job on the original post. And you're firm and not redoing the shingles staggered. I, I just, I won't have time. I just won't have time. About planting some tall shrubs. So, the garden, the garden's coming back. There's a huge perennial garden there that comes up every year. So, when it was completely redone and replanted and mulched to go with the new porch and the planner boxes are back in. Most of that's going to be completely covered. I have. I understand your desire, but that that seems like an easy thing to fix relatively easy. Most know would be hard to fix. But fixing this. The staggered shingles is not a terribly difficult task. Any suggestions from anyone else. About the shingles. I don't have any objections to the shingles as they are. I would leave them as they are and put. Planner boxes and some shrubs out in front of that. There's 2 planner boxes already there in the, in the things and. And 2 large planners on either side of the stairs and there's, and like I said, there is a. Well, established perennial garden that comes up easily to the height of the chair. I'm okay with, I mean, if he's got shrubbery that's between planner boxes and shrubbery that's hiding. 80% of it, I'm fine with it the way it is. Leaving the shingles away. They are, I don't feel as wrongly about it as there as Eric does. It would have been nice to stagger it, but. At this point. And he's got gardens in front of that height. Most of it. You're not going to notice the difference. I really appreciate your recognizing that it's difficult for us when someone has already completed the job. And then we. Are asked to approve or not approve. This is my, this is my 3rd time through and I sincerely apologize. I didn't. I am a firm believer in the design review process. And I'm. The firm believer in city planning. Unfortunately, it's happening more and more. Yeah. And I did, you know, and it, you know, in my own defense, it doesn't happen with me. It did this time. It was a bit of a crazy summer as you know. And I just. Yeah. Building apartment was closed. I understand it relocated fairly quickly. But I didn't know that I was not aware of that. All I knew was city. So. The biggest part is that the, your process listed on the national register of starting places as contributing. So there's it sort of. Nails a special sign on your building that you should try to preserve it as much as you can. If you're doing repairs or replacing. Components. So in my defense, I would say pulling the. Big red brick. Siding off it was a good thing. No, that was a good. We're better off than we were. You couldn't see those staggered shingles before they were wrapped inside. So the whole house was wrapped inside. Yeah, so nobody was. I try, I try hard. I try hard to put it back to what it was. Well, but again, between the flower boxes, if you again, rounding the post as much as possible in the center or leaving it square at the top and the bottom and. Rounding it as much as possible and then painting that to recreate the pattern that you have before. This is what, and this is what I'm saying. I mean, the goal. And I talked with Meredith about this briefly to the goal is also. To have things net zero. Yeah. And so for me, and if it doesn't apply to this porch, but for me, it's always. My, my goal is really, I like old school carpentry and I like old houses. So my goal is to put it back to what it was. And yet we do have modern things that we have to do. There's better framing techniques. There's better support techniques. There's better insulation. There's better windows. There's things that kind of have to change. That's why I do like coming here. The shingles are a foolish oversight. You know, if I'd come here first, if we hadn't had to flood this summer. It was going to be a fall project and I was, you know, I would have just gotten on design review and done it and you would have said, staggered shingles and I would have said fine. So do the best you can cover it with landscaping. I have extra B bomb going in there. And you need new shingles later. Well, yeah. I think we made the point. Yes. The shingles take the brunt of the weather. One, one thing you, one thing you could do to simulate that. And I'm not, I'm not a fan of like, you know, painting something to look like it was old necessarily but you could. So in detail you'll, you will see in a number of places you can take a darker shade of blue. So if you look at the gables shingles, they're a little faded now. But that is a Sherwin Williams boutique blue on the body of it and then I picked all of the other blues in the in the color on that color wheel. And I painted the upper gable and goes from the next blue up to the lightest blue. And I'm more than willing to do that on the, on the porch to make it match the upper gable. No problem at all. And even if you like skipped every other. Yeah, every, every couple of shingles gets a different color. And I like it. I really like the effect on the top. It's faded. It's hard to notice. If you stand in front of the house and look up, you'll notice it. There's there, it is five different blue colors on the upper gable staggered in. So, and I'm more than willing to do that on the bottom. Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe people are watching on this. You can see it's almost white in that little triangle up above the window and it's, and it's a, and it's a darker blue on the bottom. Yeah. Yeah, I'm more than willing to do that. I can probably only do three on the porch instead of five, but I can do. Yeah, I'll do. In my opinion, since the, the shingles are not going to match the top gable, I would rather see it the same color. The body color. Yeah, just let it blend as much as it can. That was my, I was going to, that's why I didn't really think about it. I was going to wrap those shingles in color wise right into the main body of the house. That'd be my preference. I think the darker color anchors the building better. I do too. Then a lighter color. Again, just go with the landscape and as much as you can dark blue and landscaping. So nice. I mean, that's what it was. I like the dark blue on the bottom. Are you going to put any railings on the stairs? There's a metal railing. I got a call back from the metal bat guy. There are, there's two metal railings going on the bottom. They're very simple. I can provide you. I can email you a picture off the guy's website. It's tentative. None of it's planned yet. It's simple. It's a, it's a metal railing that anchors at the bottom and anchors to the main post and it's just a rectangular metal. It's a three, three by one metal railing. It's, it's very simple. It's very plain. And it's going to be powder coated white. It's going to be what? Powder coated white. I can give thoughts on that. If you have any comments on the railing, because technically the railing would come back to designer view otherwise. But because we'll also have to have Michelle look at that for building code. Okay. In this packet, but we can. Well, that's why I went with the metal railing because I can bolt it on and it's better in my opinion than a wood railing, which is going to fall apart over time, but I'm more than willing to put a wood railing on too. It's much cheaper for me to build a wood railing. I don't know if you've had dark blue. I don't know if you'll want to think of the railing is trim, but just a black black. That would be. It was okay. All right. Something disappears visually. Yeah, I mean, I would be more interested in the, the, the, like the connections, the details of that than, than the railing itself. Okay. Yeah. So it's a, it's a rounded plate that bolts to the. To the square post and to the, and to the step. A white railing on East state street quickly becomes a gray really. So if you start with black. Those were the, those were the options he had. He had black or white. So he had a. What it was, it was like, it looks like oiled bronze. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually a perfect combination. Okay. I liked it. It didn't have any. Didn't have any real design element to it. It was very, it's a very simple rail. It almost disappears. Yes. So it'll be up to the committee to decide whether or not they want to put in an option for that tonight, or if they want. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want anybody falling through a railing. Believe me. Okay. And we can, and again, we can do the black iron railing as an option. Black iron or dark bronze railing as an option. We can just do an option for a simple black iron railing. Black iron railing. And again, just. Check with. Check with the building respectively make sure that. It meets whatever. Right. Codes they are. Yeah, I don't want anybody. Falling through a railing. Believe me. Black iron railing is an option. Okay. That you can add. I can go through the criteria for all projects. Exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building shall be consistent and compatible. With the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. The deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired if they can rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a character defining feature the new features shall be replaced in kind. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials, including but not limited to chemical or physical treatment such as sandblasting shall not be approved. This is acceptable with your treatment of the posts. As you described, and also again with the will suggest plantings that cover as much as possible of the shingles to to avoid trying to replace those with staggered shingles. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect and be compatible with a massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties. Acceptable architectural features including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building. Architectural features on any addition shall not duplicate but shall respect. This is not an addition. The replacement of a porch that's acceptable. Outdoor lighting fixtures. Is there any lighting added or is there something that's already there. There was there was lighting on the front porch and what was added was can lighting that goes around the outside. Recessed can day there. Okay. Question on the ceiling ceiling of the porch ceiling of the porch. So it doesn't show from the outside it just there's a downlight that you know but you're not lighting outside of the porch and the and the there's two step lights that light up automatically when you approach the steps at night only at night. So I saw that. Rebecca, I think I had a question Rebecca. What did you know I do and actually it's it is specifically about the step lights and I understand how they ended up white. If you were going to go with a white railing and I don't know if it's possible or not but I was thinking that if the railings go dark, the step lights really jump out to me as white. Okay. That's an easy switch I can use. They come in a black they come in a black cover plate so. Yeah. Yeah. I think in my head they would, they would look great matching whatever the railing ends up. That's on the screen that's these right here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love I mean I you know step lights are great. I use them all over. Are they wired or solar. They're there what the electric that I had was I had to 20 amp circuits on a new middle sex electric I think it was came in or the guy who left for middle sex electric anyway it was a while back. He came in and put in a new 200 amp panel in the house and brought it kind of up to modern standards those were two existing circuits that were replaced on the old Sam there's to 20 amp circuits. And one was driving the, the existing external plugs, and one was driving the existing lighting, and, and that has. And I just, I did extend the lighting from the center light out into the camp light, but, but that's it and then the, the step lights are running off that last plug, the last exterior plug they're hardwired in, because they have a solar switch they only come on at night they only activate at night. They have a motion and solar so when the sun goes down if you approach them they'll come up. Is that a downlight. It's a downlight. Yeah, it does not glare out in your face at all and puts the face of it. If you're going to. If the face of it isn't part of the light itself I mean it's just a shield. It's a cover plate. Yeah, you could either paint that to match your risers depending on what you're going to do with the risers on the stairs. Where were you, were you going to paint those. I don't need so those are stained that's stained. Oh, it's treated with stain and I don't the honest truth is the stairs were the things that fell apart first. Yes. And it's not tall enough for a for a stair riser. So I built. I had when I bought the house there was I don't know what they were for but they're these big beautiful four inch thick pieces of granite so I dug out around it underneath and I put two granite slabs underneath there. So those steps aren't technically sitting in the in the dirt, but I built. I built two by 12 boxes. Those things are very, very sturdy and they have two by 12 treads on top, but eventually they're going to rot out like every other pair of stairs are out there and they're easily replaceable like I can just walk them out. So, I didn't know I did they're unfinished right now they could be painted I don't think the paint would hold up well to them. They have an exterior stain that I've used in the past that works really well for preserving the wood. And it's it's a natural it's like a oak stain it's kind of a gold light gold, but it fades to a natural wood color. How tall are the stairs. The stairs are code so they're they're 11 inches for each step that was the hard thing because they weren't code before. The trends 11 how high are the risers how high are the stairs, the stair itself is 11 inches up to that first step and then 11 and then six to the top. Before you do too much more work on a check with the building inspector. Yeah, they're better than the steps that were there before. I was just talking about the height up. Yeah, so usually the code is 711. So, yeah, seven in and 11 up seven up and 11. And again if you were to change the I mean you can certainly that's an option as well change the covers either paint them or put black covers on black or dark. I'm in a like a dark brown oil bronze type. Okay. I'll just swap them out when I put the railing up. So the outdoor lighting fixtures structural design of outdoor lighting fixtures shall be compatible with the architectural design and function of the building and compatible with the neighborhood. And lastly, porches and stairs on historic structures. The location of porches ramps and stairs shall be placed in a manner that does not impact or undermine the original and significant ornamentation or detailing of the existing building. Stairs ramps and porches shall employees suitable detailing to connect to become compatible with the historic and important design features of existing buildings and new construction. Stairs and ramps shall be designed in a manner with details and materials that provide the most sensitive and compatible structure that fits the building design and lay up. And again with the modifications that you had agreed to that would be acceptable and those those stairs are the original stairs lined up exactly with the front door and those are in the same location. So for Eric and Rebecca who aren't here in the room. Steve's filling out the recommendations and optional chain. Yeah, optional changes section on the form. Thank you. We have a few tonight. So it'll be minutes. I postman who uses those stairs more than anybody approves of the stairs. He thanked me for them. Is Michelle been over yet? We take a look at things. I know she's looking through all the photos that Michelle said. Okay. I think she wanted to see what design review. They had anything to say. But I'll be seeing her tomorrow. So I'll let her know how to make one that she should be in touch to set the meeting to come over and I'll let her know about the rally to. Okay. So I made that several comments. One was the structural posts on the front porch will be modified to closely represent the original turn post as much as possible in painting to also match as much as possible. The original paint patterns. And then I wrote that the applicant has the option to install black or dark brown simple metal railings for the front stairs, which meets code requirements. Anything other suggestions to add or. Do you want to add on changing the plates and those lights? Sure. Small matter, but it's a matter. Thanks for catching that. And just said that the stair light. Plates will be either a black or dark bronze color. Okay. And based on those, does anybody have anything else we should add. Comprehensive. I'm sorry. Sounds comprehensive. Okay. Sounds good. All in favor of the application with those modifications. Speak your names. William. Martha, I'm in favor with the modifications, but I also have a personal preference that the porch shingles be painted to match the body of the house to make it blend as much as possible. I agree. I think that was the proposal that was in the proposal. So that's fine. That was the original proposal. And I vote in favor as well. I'm voting no, based on the staggered shingles on the front. Cover them up with. Which doesn't do any good. I think the treatment on the post should also be simpler. Rebecca, let me just be clear on the post because I thought we were going with that simpler. So square at the top and the bottom. Yes. To accept the Florida Lee. Detail at the top and then a nice chamfer. In the middle, you can chamfer in the middle. Right. And then by the time you paint the stripes around, right, you'll come as close as possible. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I'm still going to vote no because of the staggered shingles. Okay. And then Rebecca, your vote. I'm going to vote. Yes, I'm in favor with changes. So the vote is four to one in favor. That's a, that's the ultimate yes. Because you just need three yeses. And you can sign. If you can sign, you're good with these recommendations. You can sign it applicant part. And then what I'll do is I'll coordinate with Michelle tomorrow so that she can meet with you and we can get one packet for you with the zoning permit and the building permit. Okay. And then she'll probably, you know, hash out some, some code details on the railing with you, but we'll get that out. They're 90% of the time I have to pop up to Burlington tomorrow in the middle of the day. Well, and I have your phone number. So we'll be in touch. Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find over there. Awesome. Thank you, Paul. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming and good luck with your finish. Finishing. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks. Goodbye. Is everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from February the fifth. We have. Yes. And I'll make a motion to accept them the way they are. Oh, second. All in favor of approving the minutes. Speak your names. Martha. No. Eric wasn't there. So he can abstain if you want to solve the problem. So minutes are approved. Does anyone else have any other business? I just have one little reminder because I didn't, I didn't send out another email about it. The second hearing on zoning regulation changes is going to be next week on the 28th before city council. There were no major changes made or suggested at the hearing on the 14th. There were some little tweaks. But the, the big one that design review might care about. Even though these don't come before them is the demolition provision just because that does have to do and changes some of the process for demolition of historic buildings in the city. So it's worth to just take a look and see. See what that's what's going on there, but the design review provision doesn't have any major changes in it at all. So the regulations that you guys actually apply. They're going to be proposed to change except. Yeah, those don't apply, but the keep in note that you may be seeing. Your projects because they're going to get rid of residential density restrictions in the design review district if it goes forward as proposed. Thank you for the heads up. So there might be, there might be a lot more development in downtown. If that goes away. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? I moved to adjourn. I second that. All in favor of adjournments speak your names. William. Steven. Rebecca. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. For. Oh, you. I don't control when I mute. So, yeah, just a reminder next meeting, March 4th. I don't have any applications yet. So I will let you know next week. If for some reason the meeting is canceled. Thank you. Have a good night, everybody. Thank you.