 Hello and welcome to this podcast episode 33. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante Extracting the signal from the noise very busy interesting week. I'm on the road. I'm in North Carolina. I had some visits here For meeting sas Dave with the sas championship. I played in their program met some of the founders doing a big story on research trainable park Welcome to episode 33 great that great to be connected via zoom Hope the audio comes out. Okay for the folks listening. Apologize, but wanted to get the streak going 33 Podcasts numbers are up day people love the podcast love when we riff But this week is not a lot of riffing with really the top stories being the war in Israel is just Insane the whole thing that went down the terrorist attack the Hamas just basically just invaded Israel and You know besides The dramatic peace Rupture that happened because you know, Israel's trade land for peace basically years ago and It's just been Horrific, you know and not without its consequences to the tech industry as you know Silicon Valley is, you know heavy with Israeli startups Tell it be well known. It's like the Silicon Valley in the area I've talked to at least a few founders already on the phone multiple multiple founders in the middle of rounds of funding With their teams over there. I mean every company that's in tech has a tech team in Israel We know Infinity has teams so, you know, Eric Herzog and others talking about that as well just Dave I mean, this is just unacceptable. I mean just my I'm standing with Israel and this is just incredibly Difficult and just the invasion. It's terrorist attack And you know, I'll see the cybersecurity angle here is not to be ignored, you know, what's gonna happen? It's really it's crazy. I mean, it's just mind-boggling the whole consequences of what this means. So I think Also, I don't know if you know this John our lead security journalist David Strom His daughter lives in Israel and has for years a couple years anyway Maybe even more and her husband was called in to do service. I know that. Yeah, so, you know, he's they're obviously, you know Incredibly, I mean everybody is incredibly concerned and you know, I get my Wall Street journalist here every headline this week I mean, they're gonna body parts, you know, I mean, I mean, it's just it's it's good I the the course the greatest concern for both both the war in Ukraine and Now in Israel is the escalation, you know, this is this is how world wars start, right? They start, you know, you get sort of, you know Little cold conflicts and then they turn into to wars regional wars and then those regional wars suck in other nations And then allies have to come to support other nations and then before you know it, you know You have a world war going on and and we've never had a world war where there was, you know massive nuclear armaments all over the world and gosh does we don't want to see that You know, it's crazy. And so I'm really really concerned about escalation I'm concerned about The I mean if look at if you're Israel, we had the same feeling after in line 11. It's like, you know Get those guys And now you're seeing what's happening in Gaza Today, it was you know, the news is Israel's basically say warning citizens get out, you know You got to go south and so of course those folks are like, ah, how do I get out? There's no taxis. I got my family and I got to pick up everything and go and so that's a cluster And then they're gonna roll in and appears. They're just gonna You know really flatten Gaza And and so what is that? Gonna bring and will other nations, you know, get involved is Hezbollah gonna get involved You know, what's Iran gonna do and if that if ran gets involved What's the United States gonna do and then you've got the US and China the two superpowers, which are right now Not in a great place, but it could could go one of two ways John. It could get worse or We could start having some diplomatic discussions and make it get better and the the latter is the better outcome if the two world superpowers can get together and And and and calm things down in Ukraine, I don't know Middle East That's that they're they're different, but they are sort of related in terms of just the the the global and geopolitical Implications, but let me start with Ukraine if the United States and China the two world superpowers could somehow broker peace in Ukraine that would be a good outcome and a good start and again I don't know what the answer is in Israel. It's it's a decades-long Millennial the Hamas problem. I'm a snake. You just got to be eliminated. I mean the Palestinians The friend his friends on that side, too. It's just they get pigeonholed with the with the terrorists, right? So, you know Humanities at risk here. It's a huge issue pivotal moment in history But here's the problem John is you said Hamas has to be eliminated, but first of all, Israel has tried before to Wipe out Hamas not not to the scale that it's going to happen now. You know the concern there is You know people say Hamas it's not I Mean is it an organization? Obviously, but it's also an ideology It's that you know the concern is something else will rise up and it's it we've seen over history just more and more escalation So but I understand what you're saying and I think Netanyahu has basically said we're going to wipe them out This time so they're going to go house to house and then what happens to the hostages Can you imagine if you had, you know, one of your loved ones taking hostage? And you see the tanks rolling in and they're threatening to execute these people these barbaric executions and they put them out live on Social media and it's just heartbreaking Well, it's also going to be a lot of action on cyber security So there's also we know we wrote a story this week on silicon angle the Hamas Israeli war is going to be fought in cyberspace check that out So I'll say that's there. Just you know, a lot of you know tech news continues to go along We actually think featured in Israeli start-up Kubey up. They just launched the new suite of AI services So it was really cool to see them get some headlines Could be you know have a chat GPT for DevOps basically as platform engineering Another company tabby ML raised 3.2 million for open source coding assistant We'll be at Kubecon this year in a couple weeks next month. What's going to be there? So Linux foundation that cloud native World will have a lot to discuss. I'm guaranteeing it's going to be a lot of AI being discussed Elation a company we've been tracking since the Foundings debuting AI co-pilot analytics Adobe Adobe's really getting in there. So some great posts and they have the whole of the photo stuff and I Was even at an event last night here in North Carolina and it was a bourbon tasting contest Of course, I'd do a flyby Dave And of course the guy well, Jay Jay's the CIO for sass who's just a cool guy and and he's got their customers in there We were kind of late to this event, but We so we stopped him for the guy who runs the the the country club place where they had it He's just just a guy's facility's guy does like diverging you know stuff Overseas all that stuff. He's like he was so proud He showed me the placemats because he put the different bourbons like three just small little glasses on this little Image with the name or circle. We put the glass on he goes. I did this all with AI Okay, that It's awesome. That means, you know, here is a non-techie. This is the utility, right? I think Adobe's gonna crush this kind of kind of you knowledge worker You know, here's a beverage manager who's got a bourbon tasting Event which they created a placemat with mid-journey and eyeball the circle and put the glass on You put the glass on with the name. So when the glasses when you lift up the glass the name of the bourbons there My point is you start to see the real world application of Where AI is gonna just make things better kind of like, you know When we were riffing about the old days of the web, right or the PC revolution I mean when you use Lotus one two three and then ultimately Microsoft's office on a PC You're like, wow, this is awesome word processor Excel PowerPoint Wizzy wig what you see is what you get interface That made it real. So I think AI you're gonna see an adoption, right? We're gonna see the same progression like the PC revolution Worldwide web. You're gonna see Basically the online population grow. So PC is PC users the more users the more software gets sold with the web The more web users online the more browsers were installed right more websites or bills So I think this that stat is gonna be something we're gonna track with AI is how much AI usage Is there in an application and users? So, you know users using things like mid-journey for this this this beverage manager You know, I've been here since you're at sass. Let's talk about that a little bit I have three events in my life where sass I was, you know, was part of my life if you will I was in college and you know, one of our computer science classes. We had to use sass You remember we all sort of did use that it's sass stands for statistical analysis system And it was the way that sass and SPSS were kind of the two systems that we use so we sort of had to learn it It was like it was like, okay. Hey, that's cool R is you know now one of the emerging languages and it has been for a decade plus The second was years later When I had my CIO practice with it centrics, there was a scotch-tasting Event for CIOs in Boston. It was scotch not bourbon and it was awesome went in drag a lot of scotch And that was that was fun and then of course sass explore John Well, we had sort of got a good Kool-Aid injection Although I think they understated sort of the position that they have and the opportunity that they have and now you're down there You know meeting with the execs and the customers and at the at the sass open You know this company I would I hope they do an IPO. That'll be fun to watch this sort of American Legend of a company after, you know, five decades going public would be amazing Yeah, I mean he's the founder and he's he has answers to nobody. What's interesting about sass You know, I'm down here. They have an event. I'll see that they had a golf program I played two rounds, which I had to do I Did I did good I hold out from the middle of the fairway for a hole in one basically net hole in one on the on the back nine Nice, how'd you play with who was your who were you paired Justin Leonard was my poor pro this yesterday? And then before that was Patrick Harrington both amazing had Patrick Harrington was my favorite And you know all the legends and you know Justin Is only he's only 51 so He's young and Patrick Harrington is I think 52 So, you know, these are pros they get but they still they can still rip it Do you get any tips from these guys? Did they oh, yeah, Patrick Patrick Harrington was the was all chatty very cool gave us Tips we were here this would with the CEO singles to a Raj, you know Raj, right? So Raj Yeah, Raj, but yeah, he sponsors Patrick Harrington is you'll see him on TV if you watch on golf channel. He's got single store on his jersey So actually he's playing with sponsor CEO of the sponsor who's very cool You know Raj and Raj and his wingman Aaron. We were all playing together with the CTO of sass was fun and What I found interesting is that I had a conversation with with Patrick Harrington yesterday breakfast with him him and David Duvall another legend and You know, they just you know, it's all small talk. What do you do bubba blah? I really don't I'm not fit into the mold here I've done you know, I started silicon angle Dave Alante the Cube you got journalism digital TV software AI and And you know, we kind of kind of rub against the grain relative to the journalism They're like give me an old narrative on journalism because you know David Duvall is it was a golf channel Commentator and now with ESPN so These guys Duvall almost has no social media Patrick Harrington's got only got 115,000 followers So I kind of gave I planted the seed in their head. Hey, why don't you combine your social graphs? And then you'll be bigger than the golf channel. So like, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's do it So we might do a podcast doesn't have fun. Great. I might I might show them how to do a podcast but um There's there's you know, these guys think they're they're getting the value of their brand So these the senior tour they call the champions tour is is very lucrative. I was very surprised at how big it is Um, and apparently the sash tournament here has a big purse So it attracted all the big names and so I had a chance to meet the founder and the team And their campus he owns everything. He actually owns the country club. It's gorgeous, isn't it? I mean, it's beautiful. I actually went there one time when I was at IDC I mean, it's just it's you know, the the iron man part of iron man two. I think was filmed there The iron man three they said not the two was a three. Sorry Yeah, but he owns all the land. They have daycare. It's very bus employee-centric Kind of mindset and he you know, he has no outside interest. It's private company days. It's not public So, you know, he can do it every once and he built a culture Around academia and the little fun fact is that the google culture the google plex was modeled after sass I didn't know that really. Yeah, that was a little trivia. They came down and said, how do you guys do it? It's like a huge campus very uh academic feel they got a hot they got a medical facility on sites and so no no one has to leave campus to go to doctor appointment Um, they got daycare health care All on campus beautiful beautiful philosophy and so you don't see that anymore in corporate america day You don't see that kind of culture You know reminds me when I graduated in the 80s. Um, eulah packet was like that. IBM was kind of like that then Not so much anymore in terms of having like the campuses So I think it's pretty special Company, I mean, I'm very impressed with the culture, but also you that they got tech shops And I think AI is going to be a secret weapon for them because they've been around for so long They have all these relationships with customers of every single industry vertical And you know, we've been saying for years that The data in these vertical markets is where the IP is and so with AI coming down the the pike fast They're going to be an opportunity to go to their install base and just Modernize them in in in a quick minute So, I mean, it's going to be very interesting to see how they do that And but they're all on it and you can see there was got spring in their step here They get it and they and they got they're going to probably drive More value and and that can change the landscape of the industry because the old model if you remember Dave They just have to you know rip and replace old bring in the new with AI you can actually abstract away up that Old technology and build bots co-pilots for you know Code assistance to management software and then bring in new data functionality. So it'll be very interesting. Yeah What I don't know is is AI, you know A playing field leveler Or is it something that is actually going to create, you know, greater disparity between the haves and the have-nots You know, there's there's conversations around the the lack of talent and how you know to get an AI pro You got to give him or her a million dollar signing bonus, you know, Frank Slutman told me At in in June we were talking about the acquisitions that that he made that snowflake made of of of neva and even commented on On the acquisition of mosaic ml Like, you know, he didn't crap on it at all. He said Dave A big rationale behind these acquisition acquisitions is getting talent, which is kind of I guess obvious But he's you know people talk about paying overpaying for that talent will not really, you know You need to have that or overpaying for these companies because it's worth it to get the talent So will that create separation? Or is AI going to be so ubiquitous and widely available and you know relatively easy to implement I don't want to say easy But it's you know, it does simplify, you know software development in in a lot of ways I don't know. What do you think? I think it's going to completely change the game I think AI will actually, you know, I think if you train AI and treat a code base as data and then Import your code It will learn and you can essentially you'll code on its own. You just tell it what to do So and I think that's going to help in areas where the short resources So, you know, you know, let's talk to a guy who used to run City group, which is a huge It shop billions of overhead that he runs Budget-wise he says, you know, they can't hire cobalt programmers. So what they do They basically train AI to be a cobalt language that ingest the language know every syntax Guess what then you in court incorporate the code base With the language merge and you now have a smart co-pilot or bot chat bot code bot That can code The area is that you would just instruct someone to code. You don't need a cobalt programmer So that's a gap obviously older technology. So new technology. I think you're going to see Um a democratization where you don't have to be that person To be that expert I think machine learning was that craft right if you were a machine learning developer Go back say seven years ago or 10 years ago, Dave You were pretty much a small percentage of the population of coders, you know, and then even more, you know, google google Was always talked privately about how when they do acquisitions They would count the number of engineers and that new machine learning and and and value them at two or three million each And so what companies would do is stockpile ml engineers just to get the m&a going. I got 10 That's hilarious. Oh my god, they would gain the algorithm to get high evaluation So, I mean smart, so I think that is true today if you have talent Okay, and you have AI then you have a scale there there So I think everyone is really figuring this out now and I think it's really well understood We've been talking about this, you know for the past year It's not new to us in this conversation, but I'll tell you in mainstream kind of tech and mainstream society It's becoming well understood that talent plus AI is better than just talent on its own Clearly, right? So that's going to mean that's going to apply to every single field I mean, there's no exceptions with this kind of like again like the pc like the web. The reality is this shift Impacts everybody. Okay. I mean, so let me ask you a question because I'm always pimping up Cube ai go to the cube ai.com and and sign up for private beta John will let you in When I look at that, I mean our engineers are good, but it's not like they are AI experts, right? They're just good coders and they're full stack developers. So they you know, they pay attention So they were able to correct me if I'm wrong tap open source tooling Leverage MongoDB leverage open source tools like milvis And actually build the cube ai and I mean I use it all the time It's awesome Now so we were able to do that, you know without, you know deep AI exposures now is that going to Well, I could actually change our our industry. So that's my point earlier is like It's somewhat this llm's have have and chat gbt and bard and these other tools open source tools There's dozens and dozens of them have somewhat democratized AI and made it much more available To a much wider audience. So to me it comes down to okay That what's the what's the model who's creative? What can you create that doesn't didn't necessarily exist before to transform your industry? So if that's true, then it's execution and the clarity Of the value that you're going to deliver for your customers for your community, whatever it is That is ultimately going to be the determinant of winners. And yeah Big some big companies like open ai or, you know, the big cloud guys will come out of the woodworks I personally think Something that we haven't thought of is going to come out and surprise everybody and I can't obviously predict that what that is But for mainstream, you know companies, you know small guys like us We can now tap the power of those tools to transform Industries or at least our business Yeah, I mean there's no doubt about it. Well, I mean, I think we do have some experience with some AI around some of the language stuff we were doing in the extraction That's true. NLP. It's mostly NLP, right? No, that's true. That's AI. You're right. So you're right Have had chops there With our team, Narendra and Vokes. Yep. Definitely have that I think you got to be careful when you might be oversimplifying it because think about like a basic coder right in a corporation enterprise Yep, you know, they're coding away and they're just writing code on their application We we are kind of on the cutting edge. Remember, we had the twitter fire hose with the deal with apis We go to cloud native. So, you know, you got it Not everyone's dev sec ops Native anymore, right? So there's still people are doing dev ops and just writing applications So application developers and you see that in the Verticals where there's well known applications in these industry verticals. That's why you know sass has got my attention because You know, they have developer In their markets, right? So they sell to people who are users Right dev ops users have a whole different breed to them. So a whole nother animal my To me, if you're doing dev ops cloud native, you're well advanced because you have to learn a lot more up and down the stack It used to be called full stack developer Um in the nomenclature but with cloud you have to deal with microservices. So, you know with services Cloud services versus on premise monolith kind of concepts That's just different right and then coding application coder. You're just coding away. It's like, okay. I'm writing code as the application You're relying on someone else to do the platform engineering So that's the transition that we're in and again, we talk about this all the time on the cube But so it's not that easy, but it's going to get easier to your point What you're really trying to say and like I guess what I'm sensing is is that you're just saying Hey, if we can do it, we're not really heavily vc backed We're agile when we have good people The argument is the same along when when in dresen you mark and dresen said the 10x developer, right? Remember that concept software is eating the world You know with cloud you have 10x now you can get you can have one developer going to have the functionality of 10 in the past that step function value Is now moving to ai where it's not 10x anymore. It's probably like 1000x. It's not completely step function So the the talent plus ai if you know that to me, that's the game, right? That's the whole conversation Like if you have ai right That's key now the conversation we talked about last pot. I think we're getting into us the really cool area is What's the role of data? Right? So, you know, everyone's clamoring about vector databases You know, and you know, it's going to be more and more vector databases coming out And I was talking to the single store and they later they already have vector database They're in their pro and their platform. It's not like they I need to announce it and they're like, what's the big deal? The vector database is not a company And the embeddings don't work with each other. So what they're the the frothing around vector database in my opinion Is the fact that the role of data Is changing radically with ai Because of the use cases are now possible The public we published that power law Of llm's large language models yet the top proprietary ones big ones and then smaller ones are coming in the long tail Every company will have their own foundation and data models foundation or large language models. So so that ip Is the companies so every if every company has a large language model and a proprietary foundation models The role of data is changing That's the real story here is How you handle data how data is used and applied Will be based upon the ai systems that are going to emerge And I think that's going to be coming fast. So, you know, no one has that yet in my opinion. There's no real ai company Do you go to there's no Linux of like like moment for ai. Isn't that what open ai is trying to be? They're the proprietary Yeah, but um, yeah, I mean, you know, but if you're a company Like us We have a small language model You know, yeah, we have a for us. It's large but to compare to the world of the power law. We have an sll SLL SLL small language model slm Small language models and that's not bad. And by the way the horsepower we're seeing some of the stats The cost issues go down completely if you decompose these language models The smaller ones into smaller pieces because they're highly contained and cohesive in the language So you can get more if it's valuable you want to want to pollute it with other other syntax or other data Again, so this is brings up the whole data architecture I mean, it's almost a mind blowing conversation day because it's like well, it'll if this continues It'll upend everything that we know about storage And how it's how databases function Right. I mean mongo putting a vector database with their data store makes total sense. It's a feature Of a platform This is this is one of the things that You know, we've been doing with the future of data apps data platforms using that notion of uber for all uber for the enterprise Where you're basically building a digital representation of your business you're in you're ingesting data That data is all different forms. It's structured. It's unstructured. It's different formats and it's different tables You query it differently, but then you create You know a consistent, you know, people say semantics. I don't know if that's the right term But you're able to join that data in real time to make decisions and take actions for your business That is a productivity driver that's unprecedented. Eric Brynjolfsson was at ui path this week as One of the keynotes hit awesome keynote speakers. They had Walter Isaacson, they had Eric Brynjolfsson tremendous. Anyway, Brynjolfsson, who's an economist at mit and very well known He said that he believes That ai will have A will double productivity. He said it will be at least three percent productivity boost in the relatively near term He said he'd be disappointed if it didn't beat that he would expect four percent You know or higher, which would be Amazing if you can get four percent productivity on the on the economy on the global economy That could potentially help solve all these problems of debt If the government it would have some kind of fiscal discipline And that is the wild card right now. But by the way without that, I think we are in deep shit You know notwithstanding all these wars and who knows how to predict that but to the extent that Productivity gains can be seen That is going to open up new opportunities. It's going to create a flood of money You know it could create greater wealth disparity, which is obviously a concern But right now the big problem that I see is us debt, you know One of the number one problem that we have to deal with Just in terms of be able to fix some of the challenges we have You know around healthcare for example or infrastructure or innovation, etc. And so That would be huge if Brynjolfsson is is right and so Um, I don't know. What do you what do you think? I mean, this is you're saying it's the biggest way of ever The that to me, how do you measure that you measure it with productivity? Yeah, and then a number of people using it So like from a TAM total addressable market perspective I think the thing that I would look at as an investor and someone looking at Kind of a progress bar is adoption How many applications will have AI enabled or AI in them true AI? I'm not talking about just washing AI over and saying it's it's AI But like legit AI right legit Productivity and so you'll see that I was actually commenting with brian harris is the cto at sass here. We were playing golf together Great technical group. We had a good good bunch of nerds playing golf together. It's kind of fun We were talking about basically that you can really do great demos with AI and they do that They did that at the event by the way, which by the way work demos of real data and they showed How the data is crossing so it's a legit AI demo Okay, so you can actually see the difference in demo and so that's one hurdle you can start to see That being an indicator of pretenders versus the player. So the pretenders won't have good demos Okay, because you can actually do good demos with AI because that's the benefit of AI This challenge that's new the net new challenge with the AI wave Dave is going from killer demo or app to scale and production And so the all the conversation in silicon valley and in the AI industry and cloud right now is How do you move AI from you know, great application that works with some data or some scale To moving it into a production environment. We have a lot more scale a lot more data is needed So, you know, as we know with chat gpt It's garbage in garbage out meaning You're only as good as the data you're providing. So at scale With AI you're going to have to manage massive amounts of data the right data Volume of data velocity of data. So it's going to be a challenge. I think that's going to be the conversation probably the next two years Who's in production with what and what does that look like and your point about usage and adoption is right on I mean, you know, my rap about Productivity you're you're peeling the onion one layer down. How do you get productivity? You get productivity through usage and adoption Usage of tech and applications is what drives value. It's what makes people more productive And the other thing to think about is if you go back 30 40 50 years the percent Of time that users spend employees spend first of all the percentage employees that have access to technology And the percent of time that they spend Using that technology has gone from, you know, small percentage of back office, you know workers back in the 60 70s And and in the 80s with the pc productivity it went much much higher But still people spend time doing other things today a huge percentage of people's time is spent on using technology and The impact of that usage is much much higher. Just think about what happens The way floyer and I used to measure this when we had, you know, our cio consultancy Was what happens we would ask organizations and employees we would do these time and you know time in motion studies What happens when your your access to this application goes down? If you ask that to a claims processor an insurance company she or he's going to say, uh I don't do anything. I can't do my job. Um, and so You know, think about when you lose email. Um, it doesn't happen that often, but it does happen. Think about it when you're, you know, hacked Uh, that is massive productivity impact. It just underscores How much productivity technology drives so to the extent that you can increase that to bernie alson's forecast double You know that productivity You know Up gain from let's say where it is now two percent to four percent That is massive in terms of the economic impact on the global economy I totally agree. Well, I mean, let's let's go through our rants here. Obviously my rant is one rant It's small rant. It's the whole war an israel israel situation My heart goes out to all the founders who have companies There and in the u.s. And also companies that have employees there Um, and people have relatives there and on both sides. It's really kind of Unimaginable. Um, I stand with israel. That's my personal perspective. I think they get invaded And have to take action. Um, and then my my my segue into the ranter in the industry is, you know, this There's still layoffs happening. Dave is, you know, more layoffs coming from flexport We saw a bunch of other layoffs coming in from companies juniper laying off 440 employees So interesting layoffs there Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a weird time qualcomm said it's going to lay off more than 1200 people in california Just a lot of Issues you know going on in the tech industry. So yeah, I hope we can get around that and I hope we can get some data That will give us an indicator of what's going on with the economy So that's my rant Yeah, I mean I mean on On the war, I would just it's very complicated as we know situation in middle east one of the most impactful books that I've ever read And if you haven't read it, I would encourage people to read it is the lemon tree Many might dismiss that at this point in time because you know the horrific Incident and incidents that have occurred and are incurring in israel, but it's um, It's a very thought-provoking Piece of work the lemon tree for my rant Activision microsoft finally closed today uh, I feel as though that was It's like the exception that proves the rule the exception being the government's actually allowing the governments around the world allowing This to go through the the time it took and the pain it took Um and the concessions that were were made they they could have been made I think Would have been made Upfront had two things takes takes two to tango, you know, how ironic but but upfront if the if the government had a You know stronger relationship and more supportive relationship of big tech and at the same time a big tech Big tech had more of an open mind to the fact that you have a monopoly So you you cannot use that monopoly power to Advance your position at the expense of the industry And that's if those are both, you know opposite sides of the equation bring them together right now the The you know us I guess it's the doj. Maybe it's the fdc. I get so confused with all these lawsuits But but basically the fdc is there but no it's it's it's the fdc their position On on amazon is let's start with breakup Um and then you know amazon's position is to dig their heels in and say No effing way we're going to break up the company. That's bullshit Not for you to decide and so Again amazon's got to realize hey you've probably done some things that weren't cool So admit that and come up to an agreement with the doj or fdc. I can't remember. I think they're both after them I think right now it's the doj. Any rate come to an agreement Meet in the middle and actually keep it out of the courts and the headlines And that is going to foster a better public-private relationship That's going to help us in so many ways and I don't know. Maybe that's just a pipe dream But it's something that I think we should endeavor to support He a great great, uh brand as always, um yeah, I mean Let's talk about um, a couple things you were at the ui event this week in vegas. How'd that go? We got super club coming up ui path ui path Fantastic event always fun You know ui path was a company that their series f I think was a 38 billion dollar valuation They went public didn't go so well. They're probably trading at a 10 billion dollar valuation now But they brought in rob enslin who's the was the co-CEO now. He's essentially the CEO, uh from google Uh, he has he is a go-to-market pro Uh, he's very focused. It's allowed daniel deniz the visionary founder to really focus on Product and he is a visionary. He's been doing a i for a long long time I know everybody says that just as a proof point They bought a company called re-infer natural language processing before chat cpt was was announced And so it wasn't like scrambling because they had an event coming up It was they saw it as a fundamental component of their platform They've shifted from a point tool rpa to a platform of automation now at the same time Uh ai is is eating away at some of their tam. I mean john You know me. I've been talking every time I go to ui path events. I'm like, hey john We could use rpa to do like auto clipping and and and streamline our workflows. Well, guess what? We're not doing that without rpa. We're doing that with ai and large language models You know kind of built it ourselves. So there is that component Where it's eating away ai is eating away at some of their tam at the same time They were smart enough to say look we have to go beyond point tool build a platform so that we can you know drive end to end What they call hyper automation Which is you know very high value many more people accessing automation So that was really what the you know event was all about is what kind of progress they're making there And when you talk to customers, you know, what's happening is is this is still largely a back office function The opportunity is to move that throughout the organization to the front office And that's just a massive total available market opportunity and uh, I really like these this company I sat down one on one with daniel deniz the the founder super humble guy I say humility and I don't mean that as a sign of weakness He's bold takes big makes big bets But he's just a really thoughtful individual and somebody that I've enjoyed getting to know over the years Yeah, that's awesome. And again every app is trying to figure out their gender vi strategy or their gender vi something and Those guys have always been ahead of the curve rpa has always been that category that's kind of doing it But right now again the startups that are out there and the some of the commentary in the elite circles are At least that people are just creating something that sits on top of open ai or chat gbt three or four And you know now we got the vector database search kind of buzz You know, I think but I think there's going to be a real New thing that's going to come out of this which is you know around neural networks, right day I think that's going to be you know, we're because everything's talking about like search and retrieval rag is a term they use um getting data to have memory and and and data to have intelligence Is gonna have to have a new system and that's what we're watching and I'm looking for that big time, right? Like that's them out there like with my goggles on like, you know, binoculars looking out in the field saying, you know Who's moving the needle? Right? And the gap between demo and production Building anything with machine learning is just too big right now. And that's what everyone's talking about So we're going to keep tracking it. We're going to be at super cloud four in two weeks So we're going to be live stage performance in Palo Alto on our Genevieve super cloud Event and Let's let's get pumped for that Yeah, so super cloud four. It's uh, it's going to be awesome. I mean look if you guys are local to I think We're getting pretty full John, but still, you know, if you're local to Palo Alto, let us know You know, we can always what we did with super cloud three is we had so much demand for people coming into the studio We created a second day and we could do that again We we've allocated that time and we would welcome if you've got a really good angle here You know, let us know and then of course reinvents coming up. Of course, we have the The the dp3 We're doing a data protection series with our friends at Dell. This will be the third in the series Out of our Palo Alto studio. It's a super studio sort of format like we did with vast data like we did with it with iBM So headed by Rob Emsley who's the the the marketing lead over there and guy named Michael Wilkie So they're doing some really interesting work. Our guy Greg gots is is participating very extensively We get the support from our friends at Broadcom. So that's that's been an awesome And it's this is going to be a community event. It's not just like pimping We don't we're not pimping, you know Dell per se. We're talking about it's thought leadership and you know We'll let them pimp their products. So we're sort of setting the groundwork for thinking about Data protection as an adjacency to cyber security. So that's that's another thing that people should look out for All right, well Dave, I'm going to call it a day We've got a top of the hour here a little shorter pod than normal being together I got to go and zoom anything's possible. This could crash went that far with only one glitch Thanks, thanks for taking the time and making around my schedule awesome senior. John. Good luck. Good luck in the course today crush it, bro Right. No, I'm not playing golf today Like I'm working you must be sore. You must be sore from all that. Oh god. No, I'm not I got this I got this. All right. We'll see you see you later