 and welcome to this British Library food season event sponsored by KitchenAid. I'm Polly Russell, the season's founder and curator and I'm thrilled to be here today in central London at the beautiful KitchenAid Experience Store for one of three events with contemporary chefs, cooking and conversing with the living food legends who have inspired them. Today we are honored to welcome Claudia Rodin in the kitchen and in conversation with Ita Marshal Levich and Cereit Packer, the couple who are otherwise known as Honey and Co. Claudia, I feel, hardly needs an introduction, but she certainly deserves one. Born in Egypt to a Syrian Jewish family, she was, I'm delighted to discover, Egypt's national backstroke swimming champion at the age of 15. Claudia attended boarding school in France and her family immigrated to the UK in the 1950s. Claudia's 1968 book of Middle Eastern food was written in homage to and to document the cultural and social world that Claudia's family and so many others had been forced to leave. It also transformed Western attitudes to food from the Middle East, introducing a grateful generation and generations to come to coriander, cumin, hummus, tahini and garlic. Claudia is as much a social anthropologist as a cookery writer, using food as a lens to chronicle and understand the world. She's written extensively and authoritatively about the food of Italy, Spain and Morocco. She is indeed a food legend. And she's been an inspiration to so many in the kitchen, including Sirit and Itamar. Originally from Israel, Itamar and Sirit opened their first restaurant in London in 2012. They're known for their generous, original, delicious Middle Eastern food and have throughout lockdown been keeping their many fans happy with home meal deliveries. Their new book, Chasing Smoke, Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant is out this year. Now, in a moment, I'll hand over to them, but I'd like to mention the other legends in this series, Jill Norman with Rosie Sykes and Elizabeth Luard in conversation with the chef, Olia Hercules. Now, if you would like to support the work of the British Library, you'll find a donate button on your screen. There's also a feedback button and we're always keen to hear from you. Please do also join us for other British Library food season events. To find out more about them, visit the food season page on the website. On this page, you'll also find details of the food season competition we're running, which gives you a chance to win a range of wonderful KitchenAid cordless appliances, a place on a virtual cooking course and a signed copy of Callum Franklin's terrific book, The Pyrum. Finally, thank you to Claudia, Sirit and Itamar. The recipes they cook will be available on the website. And thank you to KitchenAid for hosting. So over to you. Claudia is such, not only an honor for us to be here in this kitchen and cook with you, it's always, always, always such a pleasure because you are one of the warmest, nicest, kindest people that we know. And a very beautiful lady as well. We're gonna cook a few aubergine dishes because it feels very appropriate for Middle Eastern food. We're gonna cook one of yours, one of ours. But I wanna know a little bit about your first book. I think that's a good place to start. I want you to tell us a little bit about your first book, how you got to write it. What was the kind of culinary landscape when you did? And what happened before? Well, I was here as an art student. And then, yes, the food was horrible at the time. I didn't dare to say it then. We just couldn't eat it. But it was just very... It was horrible. But now everybody wants me to tell how horrible it was. I've always pulled out and wheeled out to say, come on, tell us how horrible. Because now it's one of the best places in the world to be for food. So I can't say that. But yes, but that wasn't enough of a reason to write a cookbook. But it was because my parents suddenly arrived with thousands of Jews. I think 20,000 came out at the same time in 1956. This ends, this is from Egypt. Because of the Suez crisis, it was a war. And the French and English who attacked Egypt with Israel because Egypt had nationalized the Suez Canal without giving them compensation. And Israel helped them. And so the Jews had to go. And so suddenly, I was such a free person, an art student in London. And then suddenly all these thousands of relatives and people came out. Like the worst nightmare now. And so for about 10 years, I was in this milieu of refugees. Some of them just came to London just for a few months until they found a place that would have them because they were asylum seekers. They had to find a place. But so during that period, this is where I was thrown into this interest in food. I was always interested in food because I cooked for two brothers before they came. Before, as an art student, I lived with two brothers and I cooked all the time because the food was awful. But when these people came, I was noticing and hearing that everybody was exchanging recipes because we weren't all the same. We don't all have the same recipes because the Egyptian Jewish community was a mosaic of families that came from all over the Old Ottoman Empire since the Swiss Canal was built. And it was a really big community, wasn't it? It was a big 80,000 vital, very, very happy in my view because I was happy community. And we were this very, very mosaic of people from different parts of the Ottoman world. And in my family, three of my grandparents came from Syria. And so we were a very Syrian community. One grandmother came from Istanbul, but the Syrian influence was so huge because Aleppo, they all came from Aleppo. Aleppo died as a... Trade center. Yes. Because it had been on the Silk Road. It had been the biggest stopping center of the camel caravan trade that brought all the things from the east and then went into ships to the west. And suddenly they had no trade anymore. My grandparents were big merchants, the Sassoons and the Duaqs. It's like big names in there. Yeah, they said that part. And when they came, they all lived in one quarter that just opened up. It had been a marshland and they arrived and because a man called Sakakini Pasha drained the marsh and made a new quarter in Cairo. And so all the Jews of Aleppo and also Christians and Muslims of Aleppo came to live in that quarter. And it was all Syrian. And until now, when I went back, they called it, it's still called the Syrian quarter. And so they went on as though they were still in Aleppo, cooking everything as still in Aleppo. And it went on into my generation. So interesting. Of course, the Syrian food is so rich and so delicious. And what you're doing is that, is what is Aleppo. And actually, it's kind of interesting. Sorry, the time. But it's quite interesting because this is in a way happening again, not with the Jewish community, but there's Syrians that have left because of the war. And when we were just in Cairo, it is like whole communities and streets where the food that they're cooking is really Syrian in Cairo because they've left because of the war. It's interesting to see the years repeat. Wow, that's not sad. Yeah, sad, but interesting. It's very sad. And I've been to several events where Syrian refugees are cooking. One in Holland, one here, one in Turkey. And they're cooking all the things that we were also trying to save of our lives that makes us feel happy. It is, it's a memory, isn't it? But let's go back to that first book. So you were collecting recipes from all the random relatives that arrived. It wasn't just the relatives because we had some relatives that came from Turkey, the some that came from Tunisia, from Morocco, from even there we married into different communities. And so it was all these very, very particular styles of cooking that everyone kept because nobody had a cookbook. They just didn't exist. Not one single cookbook in the whole of Egypt, neither Egyptian, neither of any other community. And so we had to remember the dishes that the Tunisians did who are our relatives. And when we went to their house, we had some things. But then we thought we'll never eat it again. And there was my aunt, Rachele, my aunt, Regine Mahon. And I thought, oh, we'll never had that date again if we don't know it. And so I just felt the strong need that we've got to collect it for us. I wasn't thinking of anybody in Britain wanting our recipes. I thought they'd never want it because they kept thinking afterwards as I was collecting the recipes and I was telling friends, I'm collecting Middle Eastern recipes. They would say, ooh, you know, what's that, is it? Yeah, I mean, I always repeat the eyeballs and testicles. They thought it was going to be. But actually- I mean, a lot of it is. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, because the thing is, these were their colonies. All the Jews from Aden, the Jews from a lot of places, it was their colonies. And they had very, very little appreciation of their food because when they went to their colonies, they just brought English food. They got their chefs to cook English food. They had food sent. The richer ones had food sent from Harrods. And others would bring bags of tins or things. But they wouldn't eat local food. So there was. And when I had tea parties, because I went to an English school Cairo, it was called English school Cairo, I would tell my mother, please just have jelly, scones, roly-poly, you know, all the things- All the Western things. Please don't have anything else because they don't like it. They, poor things, it's not they didn't like it. They just didn't know. Because even at school, at the school, we had just English food. The Egyptian cooks were all there. But we only got English food. So interesting because it's flipped completely now because now you go to Harrods or you go to big supermarkets and Middle Eastern food is, you know, this is where everyone is coming to eat here. So it's quite an interesting- Well, Claudia did that. It's your fault. Every, yeah, the whole country is eating Middle Eastern food because of Claudia. Well, no, I mean, the thing is, soon, it took many, several decades before restaurants, Middle Eastern restaurants, there wasn't a single Lebanese restaurant or a Turkish restaurant. Just the only restaurants were Cypriots. And the Cypriots, they were more like a cafe and we would go there and gorge ourselves and we were so happy, just happy to be there. But it took a long time and it took the Lebanese Civil War for restaurants to open because restaurateurs came and opened restaurants. And also, and then, and the Turks came and the Iranians came. And you know, everybody came and it wasn't me that they came for. No, but I do think that a lot of these cookery traditions, it's like you said, cookbook, what's a cookbook? You know, my grandma, she didn't know what's a cookbook. She wouldn't have a cookbook. She had the recipe that she knew that she learned from her mom, from her mother-in-law. And so- No, I just thought maybe we should start cooking, but I suppose that's kind of a- We're all getting a little bit- We're getting kind of a thing, but we do want to cook something. Okay, so we brought aubergines. We brought aubergines. Baba ganoush. Now a staple. Everyone, when you say Baba Ganoush now, everyone knows what it is. But I suppose it's quite a new thing for them to know and how to treat an aubergine. How do you choose them? Yeah, they've got to be firm. And you've got to be lucky as well because some of them have so many seeds. And then it's, you know, it's not such a nice color, but it's okay. But the best ones I heard are males because they have no seeds. And so it's- And they're usually slender. And it's white inside. And it means less seeds. And then, yeah, it just looks better, but it's always good even with all the seeds. And we're going to do it in two methods. We're going to put one on a fire directly and two in the grill. Okay. Do you do that at home? Do you put it straight on the fire? How would you cook them at home? To make them kind of smoky. I actually put them under the grill. Under the grill. So this is what we're going to do. Do you stab them? Because I would stab them so they don't explode. Yeah, quite important. So a couple of stabs or you could just run a knife along. But that's quite important so that they don't explode in your grill. So you can give it a few slits and under the hot is kind of, that's not your one. You stole my one. I wouldn't slit them for the fire. But for the grill, definitely. And then into a really hot grill. I love that way, actually. Because it does give more of a smoky flavor. But I always feel I'd rather not have the flame and the mess and all that. The mess is real. Yeah, but it's not our kitchen, Claudia. So we can mess it up a bit. But they will burn and you need to give them time, don't you? It's all about them getting really, really soft. So important. Otherwise, the flavor isn't there and the texture isn't very nice either. If at one time when people started taking to all machines in London, they would grill them in slices so as not to fry them, not to have much oil. But they were always undercooked, always. And the skin was hard. And they hadn't got it right but they kept on doing it for years. But now everybody knows how to do it well. Yeah, thankfully they do. And then what else are ingredients that would go in? Once they're burned? Yes, yes, it's tahina. This is this magic thing. It's like the magic paste of everything, isn't it? But this is also one of those things. I remember when we came here, which was 10 years ago, we were 15, my god, I suppose. Yeah, well. You're getting on. What happened? But to me, you're babies. Yeah. At least there's someone we have to be babies. We should have not more. But we would go hunting for Gotahini and we'd go to Edgware Role because this is Middle Eastern food. This for us is the real thing. And yes, let me see. This one is a Lebanese variety called aliaman but there's quite a lot of different varieties out there. But for us, Baba Ghanoush always with a good dollop of tahini. This is a bit like they used to cook. No recipes, just put some in. Yeah. And then are you a garlic believer? Yes. Of course. So a bit of garlic and anything else? Lemon. Lemon juice, that's the other. Yes. This is like everything you do basically in the Middle East has to have garlic, lemon and if you can tahini. If you've got that, you're all right. Yeah. If you've got it in your fridge and in your cupboard. Then everything is sorted. You have dinner, yeah. Do you want to chop it for me? Yes. So wait, let's go back to the first book. So you had all these recipes. Yes. Horrible food all around you, so many memories. How did it come to be a book? Yeah, because I was testing them and testing them and I was having my family at the same time. I had married, I had three children and every day we would just cook whatever I was trying. It took another over 10 years before the book came out because I never thought it was going to be a book at the beginning. It's just for us and to pass around to people and to have. And then I became obsessed, real obsession. And everybody tells me I couldn't see anybody without asking them, do you salt the aubergines? How do you salt them? Do you put them with salt and those things? Do you put them in salted water? They said they were afraid of seeing me. Because I was asking them all the time. And then I also, it became for me a thing to do. It means I decided I can't just stay with the people who came out of Egypt. So how do you find people who are of Middle Eastern origin? I would hang around like the Persian embassy. And people would say, you want a visa. I've come here to look for recipes. It was sort of more like a joke because at that time nobody was thinking anybody would want their recipes or anything. But just people sitting there would say, I've got some recipes and I've got their handwritten recipes that they gave me or that they sent me. Or that sometimes they invited me to dinner. So I got a lot of, it became my way of life that I continued this thing of asking people for recipes and chatting. But also I would go, for instance, I tried the embassies like the Syrian embassy. I went to the Syrian embassy. At the time, Syria was our enemy. It was the enemy of the Jews and all that. But they knew who I was and all that. But they were so charming. And my father kept saying, it's the best, the generous, the most kindest place in the whole world, Aleppo. And then he'd say, they are monsters. They are attacking Israel. You know? He would be so. But when I was there at the embassy, they would just say, this is your home. This is what Arabs do. This is your place. It's so welcoming, isn't it? Yeah, come to Aleppo, come. And I can think, all I want is recipes. You want to come and eat? I'm not going anywhere. I can't. I've got three children. So you were doing it just for yourself? Yes and no. Because it became, if I had been a scholar, I would have been doing a PhD. But because of my total fascination, I wanted to hear their stories as well. And this is why the book is full of stories, because people wanted to tell stories. They didn't just want to give a recipe. For instance, the Jews of Egypt. This is where I got all my stories of Goha. In Egypt, they call him Goha. In Turkey, it's Jihad. And Nasr al-Din Haja in Turkey. Jihad in Syria. It means he's the fool who is also Tuikari. But they were telling me stories of Jihad. And because they wanted to, and mainly the men, wanted to have something to say. They didn't have recipes. But we wanted to remember things that I'm writing down. And so they were telling me also when these dishes were cooked, and this dish, the full medamis, then some of the people from the Jewish Quarter, they made a full medamis with the hard-boiled eggs. They put it in the fire of the public baths. Oh, really? On Friday night, for Saturday. So there were all these things. And for me, it was just joy. Nowadays, people use the word pure gold. Because I just thought, you see, it is also my world, which I didn't really know. Because I was so Europeanized, my generation. My grandmother didn't speak French. She still wore Arab clothes, the one who came from Syria. And she mocked her daughters who spoke French. But my generation, my grandmother who came from Turkey, she was like a missionary from France. Because she was a teacher of French. She had studied in Paris at the Alliance Israélite universelle, a young French. It was these schools that taught French to the Jews in the Arab world. And so when my mother married, she just said she can marry if they don't speak Arabic at home. No, Arabic. So interesting. So she made us feel we were French. You know, we were going to an English school. And we spoke Italian as well. We had an Italian nanny. And we knew all the Italians. They were Slovene, really, Nannies. And yes, but we felt we were French. And that's how we were. No connection to your really Middle Eastern roots is finding that through these stories. Because my father was, he was Arab speaker. He had a diploma in Arabic and all that. And when he came here, he was so sad. I must say my father was never sad. I never saw him sad. He just had a good nature. He was always positive and always in good mood. But he wanted his own food of Syria. Yeah, his own culture, his own. Yeah. And so my mother, who had taught our cook to cook, because all the cooks came from villages. They were very poor. They didn't know any cuisine. And so they were taught by the families where they came. And they usually stayed forever. They would go to the village to have another child. They were living, yes. They were living on the rooftops in their small cabins or houses. Like in the Jacobian building. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that was our building as well. And they were up there. And yes. And so when my mother came in Egypt, the women just never worked. Not one single woman that I knew of my community. All the poor ones worked. There were lots of poor Jews. They worked. But my community, they were middle class. They didn't work. They went to the club. They visited each other. They did petit poire. They did all that. But suddenly my mother had none of that. She couldn't see her sisters. We had a huge, huge extended family. Everybody seemed to be our cousin or something. But so she threw herself into cooking. And she has her thing that kept her going that she was cooking for my father what he loves. Because she adored him and he adored her. So that's what she wanted to do. Yeah. And so there I was. Writing all the recipes, yeah. But yes, but I also... But you didn't stop there. You started afterwards. You went global. Like you wrote about Spain. About kind of the larger Middle East, the Jewish aspect. So I think it's because I was always asked. I think after I became the Middle East specialist right away, as soon as the book came out. Or rather, it was Jill Norman, who's coming later, who actually got my book to be read. Because the first publishers did only 3,000 books. And then they stopped doing any cookbooks. They just did schoolbooks. And so there was nowhere anybody was going to read them, except us, who bought all the books. But then Jill Norman picked it for them as a paperback. And then, yes, it was taken up. And it was taken up in America. And it was taken up. People came looking for it. And because it was the only one. And you know, when I looked for anything Arabic, I went to the British Library looking for an Arab cookbook in Arabic or in anything. And they didn't have a single one. And the only one they had, they said, come back next week, next day. And the librarian, he gave me a piece of paper handwritten. The only thing that was there were translations or essays about Arab cooking in the 13th century. One was found in Baghdad. One in Damascus. And one was in Spain, in Arabic. And it was the only Arabic cookbook that people found were medieval. Yeah. Because other than that, it was just a passed down tradition of teachers. But actually, there were, I should say, there were already cookbooks in Syria. And there was one of the great chefs who had written a cookbook in Syria. So I shouldn't say that there weren't any Arab cookbook. There weren't any at the British Library or to buy. I mean, I dare say there are more than one Middle Eastern cookbook in the British Library now. Now there's more, yeah. But I just. I keep being asked for quotes, even this morning. Go ahead. Somebody does every so often somebody is doing. Yeah. But I don't give quotes because it's not fair. There's too many. And I just feel, you know, the friends that I have, I didn't give quotes to. So I'm not going to give everybody. You can't anyway. It is. I mean, I think giving quotes to Middle Eastern cookbooks coming out now, that's a full-time job. And you're quite a busy lady. But I just want to really pause a little bit and ask you, because it's like you said, when you came all this horrible food, nobody knew about Middle Eastern food. Now it's so prevalent. So many cookbooks. Everybody wants to celebrate that culture. Everybody wants to know more and more and more about the tiniest detail. I want to know how you feel about that. And for me, as far as I'm aware, you were one of the first people who really made the connection between the food and the culture in the form of a book to write it down, which is now kind of almost like a common wisdom. We know now. Yeah, because now there's all the sociology department and topology department. They are asking me to give a talk to sociologists. And they're all doing PhDs and all that. And they keep calling me a social anthropologist or social cultural something. But you are, because you're late. I remember reading that book for the first time and saying, wow, there's a record here of really important stuff. Good. But you know, the thing is, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as sociology or anthropology. But this is amazing. You're just recording history. Yeah, it was recording people. Yes, and what they did. And now, yes, it is fashionable. And of course, also the marvelous food. Do you feel that it's, can you see your impact? Yes. That's amazing. Yes, because the people tell me. And yes, and I'm thrilled, I must say, to see what all you people are doing. All you chefs are elevating what was home cooking into something that is autkrisis. And some of it succeeds fantastically. Some of things not entirely. Not entirely. But you are doing fantastically. And what there has been a tradition of restaurants of the Middle East, like Turkish restaurants, Iranian restaurants, Lebanese restaurants, of course. And they are set in stone, their menus. It means they don't vary the menu. And I remember going, I wrote the introduction to a friend of mine's cookbook. She is a Turk called Nevin Halici. She's now revered all over Turkey. But she went into all the villages getting recipes from the women. And she wrote what is called a Sufi cookbook. She doesn't like the word Sufi. She calls it Mevlana. Because it's particularly of Konya, where the whirling dervishes and the Rumi came and the whole particular type of Sufis. But it was all based on food. And she wrote a cookbook with the food of Konya and the food that's mentioned by Rumi and all that. And a restaurant here, not far away from here. I've got the name. I keep getting senior moments. Made a dinner for her, for her book. And we all went. And there were several journalists. And we thought, this is fantastic. Because it was home cooking done by a restaurant in a marvelous way. But it was all things that they didn't have on their menu. And we said, please put this in your menu. They said, no. Why? And they said, because people don't expect that. They want people to come to know exactly what is there. And it's usually grills and meze. But then it's your world now. You've gone into that. But kind of go around about it. But I can say that you've got an advantage over them in that you, as your Jewish side and your Israeli side, you can use the foods of other Arabs. All the area. You can put sorgh, if you want. Yes, we have less of a tradition to it. That ties you down. You're not obliged to a particular thing. You can be inventive. Well, they don't feel they can be inventive. Because tradition is what they're about. And tradition is what has worked for them for a very, very long time. But I think now a lot of people are interested in a surprise or an exciting way of doing something, which you're going to show now. Which we are going to show. I'm just going to say, because what we're doing is exactly that now, is we're kind of breaking with tradition a bit where we're going to use exactly the same ingredients almost, apart from a little relish of chilies and garlic and a lot of lemon juice and a bit of sugar. So that's not going to go in our classic baba ganoush, which I'm going to use the nice aubergine for. But it is going to go in the aubergines we put in the grill. And do you want to empty that, and I'll make a tahini? Yeah, I'll do that. Or actually, you can make a tahini. No, you do it, because I'll do this. OK, so you do that, and I'll do that. So do you want to? But maybe Claude, you want to tell you something about how you're doing it, because after years of emptying a. And now you've got me a little bit nervous. Yeah, that's why. What do you mean, aubergine? No, I mean, you can either peel it, or then open it out and scoop it out with a spoon. And it's whichever. I think now, I always used to peel, but now I scoop out. I scoop out as well, because you get less messy, don't you? The peeling kind of is quite messy. And you could wait for it to cool down a bit more for that. I believe that flesh is beautiful and white. And people before were terrified of the bitterness of an aubergine. But the aubergines now, they were very bitter aubergines before. But they have been sort of. No, no. How do you say? It isn't anymore, is it? They are much sweeter. They don't grow them bitter anymore, they somehow. Well, they breed everything out of it, don't they? They've bred them out. It's like 90% chicken. Yeah. For the second one, I'm going to make a tahini sauce. So rather than mixing the aubergine into the tahini, like Itamar's going to do with the baba ganoush, I'm going to make a tahini sauce by just blitzing some tahini with salt. Yeah, I can see that you're saying tahini. And here it says tahini. I say tahina. But if I say tahina on the British Library recording, no one would know what I'm talking about. Exactly. And I feel almost, well, it's funny. It's a joke that it depends which country is selling something. Because it was actually Cyprus that sold the first tahina. Yes. So tahina stayed as they pronounced it. But tahina, this is the way Syrians do. And the same with frike. Yes, frike, frike. It's ferrik in Egypt. It's ferrik. But because it's Syria, actually Lebanon that sells it. So they say frike with an EH at the end. It's so interesting. It is, yes. Can I ask you a couple of aubergine questions? You can, but I'm going to make a noise. OK, so finish it. You can talk maybe. I don't know if you can. But we're just going to blitz it to a smooth tahini. And that's going to be ready for our next thing. Sorry, now you can ask your question. I know there's a lot of kind of, we're talking about tradition. But this, the brand aubergine, has a lot of superstition about it. Black that you need to peel it where it's very hot. I don't know why, but I always do that. Yeah, I also do. Why? I don't know. No. We just do. So we are married to tradition in that way. I think we've got to ask Harold McGee. Why to do it, yeah. We get the science of it. And also, I have a tradition where you don't use a knife. Well, you don't use a knife. Why not? Wooden spoon. I chop. Do you chop it? In Turkey, they chop. But you chop with the back of a knife. You do this, not this. Well, when I started making it, I was like, you have to crush it with a spoon. I don't know why. Yes, yes, you end up back crushing it with a spoon. You start with a knife. You start with a knife. You don't need to do it. If it's cooked properly like this, and it's a nice aubergine. No, but you never heard about the back of knife? No, the back of the knife thing is in. It was because I also do it in the way the Jews of Spain do it, that they pour the aubergine in a colander, in a strainer. Yes. So some of the Jews. But not a metal strainer. We don't have to. No. But so there you use the knife first, and then the spoon. OK, mix it so we eat something. Otherwise, we're going to, you know. No, but Claudia, I just want to say a few more things. I want to ask you a few more things. So after the book of Jewish food, the book of Middle Eastern food, you have become the kind of the final word in every cuisine. So your Italian book, it's really hard to do an Italian book after that book. And your Spanish book is so well researched. It's so thorough. It's amazing. You have this kind of, on the one hand, really scholarly approach and really methodical paraproach. On the other hand, it's really joyous. And you know, you can feel your love and joy for food in those books, which is why they're so great. And we've certainly tried to grab a tiny, the spirit of the oboe, in ours and in our restaurant. That's so kind. We always say that our entire career is a copy and paste job of yours. He's a quote for you. But when I come and I eat your food, I think, oh. That's so nice. You know, we love feeding you because. And it is fantastic. I'm showing you the other. The other version. Are you doing it in the other version? This other version, I'm just going to basically do the same thing, open it while it's hot and score the flesh and season it with a bit of salt. Instead of scooping it out and chopping the whole thing, I'm going to spoon this beautiful chili garlic on and then spoon some tahini on. Because it makes it a dish. Yes. And it's an excitement about eating it and the way it looks. But also, you've got the different layers and the different layers of flavor. And adding a bit of chili is like something. Don't get me wrong. I love a good Baba Ganoush. I have no problem. But sometimes we just add a little something. OK. Are you tasting first? Yeah. OK. Nice? Yeah. OK. Go in there. So we're doing. So if I serve this to your Syrian father. One of those. Oh, yes. With the chili. I don't know if that would work that well. If I serve my aubergine dish to your Syrian father, would he like it? Or would he go like, no, I don't know. He likes it the way it was, always. The way it was, yeah. Look, here's another thing we do that probably wouldn't be traditional. But he is excited. He used to go. He, yes, when he was alive, he used to go to restaurants. And at the time, nobody was doing what you're doing. Yeah. But he was, he came back and he'd say, you know, I saw this and I had this. So he was curious. Yeah. But for him. I suppose he wouldn't have drizzled pomegranate molasses on his Baba Ganoush. Or put pomegranates on there. So things do. And when I think nobody could buy pomegranate syrup, when for years, for decades, and I had to say, if you can't find it, because there was just two shops you could. One of them was in Camden Town. And it was called Mrs. Harrow. And she was Cypriot. And she sold everything that you wanted. But I kept saying, if you can't find pomegranate syrup, make a mixture of lemon and sugar. And you get, yeah. And, you know, and you could do tamarind. You could do tamarind instead, because it had this sweet and sour thing. But so, yes, most of the things you couldn't. But in, I also went to Camden Town for filo, basically. You see, filo is now spelled here like the Cypriots do. In America, it's like the Greeks do. And which communities came. But I remember going to a place also in Camden Town, the only place where you could buy filo, they made it on the spot. And you'd go there and you could watch them make it. I mean, they had packets ready for anybody who came to buy. But you could go and watch. And they also made kadaifi. Amazing. You could watch them do it. And when I go by, my daughter lives in Kentish Town. And so when I go by, where they used to be, that's the shop. I just feel, oh, if only. Well, it will come back one day. Yeah, and now you can get it everywhere. Yes. You know, not made on the spot. But you can buy it in every supermarket. Which is amazing. And so many Middle Eastern shops. But also, yes, Indian shops now are selling Middle Eastern. Middle Eastern are selling Indian. Somehow, everything from the East or Asian can be obtained somewhere, everywhere in England, I think. Try a little bit, Claudia. I know that the first time that you came to our restaurant, I was so nervous and you were so kind to us. And very encouraging. But I'm still always a little bit nervous cooking food for you. Like elegantly done. Can I eat it just with a spoon? Whatever you want. Just a bit of, yeah. So we're watching you, so no pressure. Yeah, I'm not looking because I can't. I'm just going to look away. Eating all kinds of food. Living legend, Claudia, trying our food. No pressure. No pressure. Well, it is wonderful. And the thing is, it's also, it's a different experience. Yes. Very different experience. And it's hot. It's hot because it's served hot. But it's also hot from the chili. Yeah, too much. And I think the sweetness of the tahina and the thing is there as well. I think it's a marvelous combination. And I'm sure they're lucky, the people who come to your restaurant. Oh, thank you. You're so sweet. They definitely, we are great debt to you. And our diners, they are great debt to you. It's, you know, they say living legend like something from the past, but of course, you're still working. I'm still there. And you're still doing so much. You're still inspiring us every day. How lucky we all are. Thank you. I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky to have you. Thank you so much. Thank you.