 This is the highest technology. Your super, super computer is also a small outcome, a drop out of this one. Life should be a constant process of exploration, only then there is science. You're forgetting that you're playing your whole game on a particular stage, which is not your making. I would say the future of industry and business should go in this direction. There must be human potential business. Namaskaram, Nivruti. Namaskaram, Sadhguruji. Is it okay if we start this tech summit with a one-minute chant? Yes, I would love it. Because the greatest piece of technology that I have access to is just this one, so let me get it to your picture. I would love it. Jnanam Sukadham, Maranam Karuna, Milanam Madhura, Smaranam Karuna, Kalavashadiham, Sakalam Karunam, Samayadhe Patim, Akhilam Karunam. That was beautiful, Sadhguruji. Such a beautiful start. Namaskaram. No, the thing is, one thing in all these technological developments we've forgotten, the greatest piece of technology which took millions of years for nature to manufacture is sitting here. Human mechanism is the most supreme technology we have, and we have no education system where how to access this technology, how to keep this technology in its highest prime. But we're doing various other things that is also important, external technologies. But if we want to really produce technologies which are significant for next few generations of people, it's most important that we access this technology because this is the super, super computer here. I'm saying this is… this has micro-compress what processors which nobody can match. I'm not trying to depreciate your company, but you know, this is made by creation. Very, very true, Sadhguruji. Like you're saying, you know, it took millions and millions of years to get the smartness into the living beings. And you very correctly say, the computers today can be equated to the earthworm's mind as compared to the human mind. So the evolution, like you say, is, you know, so worthy. So Namaskaram, Sadhguruji, and welcome to the Bangalore Tech Summit. I'm very honoured that I got a chance to talk to you. That's wonderful you're making the attempt. So, Guruji, the one question that I wanted to start with, you know, it is a beautiful confluence of technology and spirituality, you're called the mystic but let me start with a more basic... No, no, let me correct the question from a very high-level technology which is a human being to, you said, earthworm-like microprocessor you're doing. Yes. So, two technologies. Very, very true. So that's how evolved you are in terms of, you know, your inner technology. But Sadhguruji, the first question is a more basic question. Today the world is facing the pandemic and a lot of us are living in fear, are living in anxiety, living in pain. What are some of the things that you could suggest, you know, very simple things that people could do every day to, to basically get the balance of mind and peace of mind? Well, it's a unfortunate reality that there is a pandemic, all right? Over a million people have lost their lives and many, many people have lost those who were dear to them. And how they lost them is also very significant. Even they lost their parents, some of them, even their spouse or their children, they couldn't be there. They could not even attend the funerals. Forget about tending to them, they could not even attend to the funerals. This could leave a huge scar in their minds for a lifetime, because that's not easy to handle. People die. That's a different matter, all of us die. But at least you are there taking care, doing something that you believe, you know. If not for them, at least you believe, you know, because of your attendance, you feel some relief in that whole process. That relief is missing, so definitely a certain level of stress and anxiety building up. And as you know, there is economic losses and there are structural changes in our life. See, in the last forty years, thirty-nine to forty years, I had never slept at home for more than eight to ten days. Now I'm sleeping on the same pillow for four months, five months, which I've never done. It's a welcome change for me, but it's a huge structural change. That means all the programs, all the events, all the schedules, everything called off. Well, at the same time, technology already had solutions, but we were refusing to use it. Pandemic is forcing us to use the technology. See, you and me are doing fine right now. You're in Bengaluru, I'm in Tennessee, but we're doing fine. Well, it would be a different thing to meet personally, but this is good. What is the point of technology developing it and not using it? Having said that, well, the concerns of health are there. One thing is your fundamental concern of your own health and well-being and life. Another thing is the concern of your family and friends and, you know, people that matter to you and the concern of loss of incomes, loss of business, closure of businesses, loss of employment and structural changes in the society. You're not able to meet people, you're not able to attend to things that you had taken for granted, you know? Simply you want something, you just walked out on the street and bought what you want or met who you want, that's gone. So these structural changes are actually impacting people much more than various other things. So one important thing is personal concern about our own health, which is also an important aspect because only if you're alive, all the other concerns are relevant to us. One thing is to enhance the immunity. Immune system can be greatly activated by doing certain simple processes. Right now, millions of people, particularly medical professionals are doing these practices which we thought online. It's called Simha Kriya, which brings your immune system up very quickly. This is one thing we must do because staying alive is a fundamental responsibility right now and keeping people around us also alive is also equally important responsibility. The next thing is a mental situation. Staying physically alive is paramount. Next thing is your mental situation because staying alive should not become a torturous process. Right now, it is becoming like that and the number of suicides are increasing. WHO is talking about suicide pandemic may unfold. So that is really… if the virus didn't get you, you're doing it to yourself, that is a terrible thing to happen in the world. But unfortunately, humanity is moving in that way. What is it that human beings suffer if you look at this? One thing is if physically we get sick, physical suffering will happen. But that is a small percentage. The real suffering is mental suffering. Mental suffering essentially means you suffer your own intelligence. If you had the brain of an earthworm because you brought the earthworm in, if you had the brain of an earthworm, you would be quite peaceful. Now there is a cerebral possibility in you which is not comparable to any other creature on this planet, another level of cerebral activity. This is the greatest boon we have. This is what sets us up as human beings. But this is what most human beings suffer because they are not able to handle their own cerebral capabilities. If they are half the brain that they have, they would be quite peaceful. With the full brain, they're struggling. But you tell me, because you are in the processor which is in a way trying to manufacture intelligence, all right, in some way. Intelligence essentially means right now for people. This is not my definition, but in people's experience, a certain amount of memory and an imaginative way of using that memory is considered intelligence by most people. Which is what the artificial intelligence is also going in that direction. Your entire computing system is going in that direction. There is a data, imaginative use of the data is intelligence. That's what people understand as intelligence. No, that is just intellectual process. There are other dimensions of intelligence which does not depend upon data. That's a different matter. We will look at that if there is time. So for this, the simplest thing is you have only two kinds of suffering, physical suffering, mental suffering. There is no other form of suffering. There is a simple process. Once again, millions and millions of people across the world are doing this. This is called as Isha Kriya, a simple process with which you bring a little bit of space between you and your body, little bit of space between you and your mind. What does little bit of space mean? See right now, this clothing, this is loose. So always I am conscious that this is my clothing. Because I was wearing skin tight nylon clothing, after some time I wouldn't know which is my skin, which is my clothing. It is so. If with something doesn't leave any space, you think you are that after some time. So right now what you call as my body is an accumulation which you gathered over a period of time. What you call as my mind is also accumulation of impressions that you gathered over a period of time. If you create a little bit of space between you and your body, between you and your mind, this is the end of suffering. Only when there is no fear of suffering will a human being walk full stride. Whether pandemic or no pandemic, this is something that everybody must do, that you have no fear of suffering because your life is a limited amount of time. Only miserable people think it's very long. If you are joyful and well, even if you live for hundred years, it's too little. One who is... See on a particular day, if you are very happy, you notice twenty-four hours pass off like a moment. If you are miserable, twenty-four hours feels like a eon, all right? So time is a very relative experience. If you keep yourself well, hundred years is just nothing. It'll just get over like a few days in your life. So this is very important that one is free from the fear of suffering because only then you can walk full stride, otherwise entire life will be half steps. Human genius, human competence, human capability has been severely crippled because the fear of suffering and unfortunately the religious forces, moralistic forces, ethical forces have always been trying to create... manage humanity with fear. You don't do this, you will go to hell. You don't do this, we will punish you. You don't do this, we will beat you. This has caused fear right from childhood. Even a kindergarten child, people are managing, even an infant, they're showing stick and saying if you don't do this, you will get this, all right? So when fear has been the basic way of managing humanity, you have crippled the humanity. Human genius will not flow. Only now I would say not even one percent of human beings get to unfold their capabilities and genius to some extent, ninety-nine percent is fear-based. Very to very beautifully said, Sadhguruji. I will go to my next question since this summit is based on technology. So we have seen over the last so many centuries, a lot of, you know, life changing, world changing technology developments. So I'll just name a few. Automotive industry started in nineteen hundreds in ten years, you know, eighty percent of New York City had cars. If you look at, you know, internet. Internet is supposed to be a curse and a boon, but in nineteen eighty three is when internet really started and you know now we seem to not be able to live without internet. Now as we speak, artificial intelligence is being looked at a technology for population scale, looked at for, you know, for various solutions that, you know, human beings can imagine at very large scale. Now if you look at technologies like AI, I believe that, you know, they need to be built on foundation of ethics, but can we build a framework for AI that leverages from spirituality, that leverages from ethics? I wanted to hear your viewpoint on how do you think we can leverage the knowledge that we have, the spiritual knowledge that we have, the, the compilation or a lot of moral and ethical needs into solutions that AI could, could develop. So you just wanted to hear your viewpoint, Sadhguruji. If I can make a little correction on that question is, if it's allowed, absolutely. The spiritual process is not morality. Spirituality is not morality. Spirituality is not a bundle of ethics. Spirituality is not commandments, thou shall not do this, thou shall not do that. Because morality is relevant only if you've lost your humanity. If your humanity is overflowing, why do you need morality? See, I don't need morality to be good to you. My humanity will always stand by me. When we are human beings, why are we not allowing our humanity to reverberate? We suppress our humanity and then try to superimpose a morality which is supposed to fix us. You fix any kind of moral, any kind of ethic, people will find ways to subvert it. People will find ways. If you have not learned that in these thousands of years that you still believe moral and ethical foundations will fix everything, it will not. People will find ways. So what is the solution? Definitely technologies are advancing like we had not seen in the past, but at the same time, as I already mentioned to you in a conversation, the highest technology on the planet is this one, human mechanism. What evolution means is, from an amoeba, from a single-celled creature which itself was a great happening from elements that were there, single-celled creature, from there it has come to this place of this level of complexity, sophistication and competence. This is the highest technology. Every other technology that you are doing, your super-super computer is also a small outcome, a drop out of this one, isn't it? Very true. So when you have this technology, why is it we have not even given users' manuals to our children and to ourselves? We still don't know how to use this. This has become a big mess. Right now, human beings are only suffering their own intelligence. Their own competence, if they were an amoeba, did you have to teach them how to meditate? I'm asking. They would be just fine, isn't it? So unfortunately, human intelligence has been left unused, mishandled and turned against ourselves in so many different ways. Now we are going for technologies. Whatever the technology, the important thing is who handles it, right? The impact of the technology upon the world is not determined by technology alone. Who handles it? Just something as wonderful as a phone, cell phone, okay? We are a classic example as a generation of people because half our lives are more than half our lives. We did not have such an instrument. Suddenly this thing came. Initially we didn't figure what it is. Once we realized what it is, we grabbed it, all right? There's another generation which has been born into a cell phone or maybe they came out of a cell phone. I don't know, because it looks like that, because they keep looking right there all the time. But we know how significant a difference it's made in our lives, this simple instrument. Otherwise, you know, I used to make these calls. There was a time I'm driving across India when I'm building Isha Foundation. I'm talking about 30, 35, 40 years ago. Now I have a call day. When I'm driving on the highway, I'll always be looking for one of those blue, blue-colored half-grill and half-metal thing, you know, which would be hot as hell. To make a call, I will look for something where there are not people and other things. Then I stop once in fifteen days, twenty days is my call day. Those days I don't have a, you know, a telephone book or anything. Seven and a date and those numbers and names I remember, the pin codes and the works, international, national, everything. So I go there. First thing is I'll give five thousand rupees to that guy. He's surprised because normally calls are twenty, thirty rupees. Here I give him five thousand, he says, just keep it. Then I go into call, my calls go on four to six hours. Then other people come, they want to make their short calls. They're all screaming from outside, but that guy manages them because I've already paid advance to him. He's a big customer I am suddenly. So once in fifteen, twenty days I make all these calls. By the time I'm finished, my forefinger is almost falling off. Ter, ter, ter, ter, you know, dialling that. Today, if I'm driving or even on a motorcycle, if I just say the name, my phone calls. And I'm just talking inside my helmet, I'm talking and riding all over the place. Oh, I know what the benefit is, but people are dying out of cell phones, taking selfies, they're dying. Talking on the phone, they're walking under the bus, all kinds of things they're doing. So I'm saying technology by itself is agnostic. It has no quality of its own. Who uses it, for what purposes we use it? But till now the history of technology has been such, always the cutting-edge technology always went into the military hands first. Military usage is first. After we have figured out how we can kill people with this technology, then we will figure out how to save lives, how to do good to the world. This has been our history till now, last hundred years if you look back and see, all this happened this way. This we must change. If this we have to change, this is not going to happen with morality because morality is very identity-based. See, now I'm an Indian. I can use technology to kill somebody that India doesn't like. Now I'm an American. I can use this technology to kill somebody who's not an American or who I perceive as against America. So I'm saying your morals, ethics, values are all very identity-based. This is why spiritual process is significant because spirituality means your experience of life has transcended your physical nature. Your physical identity of my body is my first physical identity. Then comes my family, my community, my nation, my race, my religion, variety of caste, creed, whatever else. Isn't these identities, even if I have a simple stick, I will use it against those who are against my community, against my nation, against my race, religion, whatever. If I have a knife, I will use that. If I have a computer, I will use that. If I have a bomb, I will use that. If I have the greatest piece of technology, artificial intelligence, whatever, I will use that because this is identity-based. Our intelligence, everything functions around our identity. So what needs to happen in the world is this limited identity must go. We had this well-established in our country, which we killed it with British education. Before starting education process in India, there was a process where we made sure the child stands up and says, aham brahmasmi. This means my identity is cosmic because education is seen as empowerment. If you empower a person who has limited identity, he is a disaster for the world. He may have good intentions, but his good intentions will be limited to his community, his nation, his race, his religion, like this. It is important we raise human beings in a way where our identity is cosmic in nature, at least global in nature. Only if this happens that genuinely, right from childhood, you came up in a way, seeing that you are a global citizen or a cosmic citizen, you see that you are a part of this and everything is actually a part of you, only then this will happen. This is what spiritual process means, that your experience of life is one with everything. The word yoga distinctly defines this. Unfortunately, people think yoga means twisting and turning. The word yoga means union. That is in your experience, you experienced everything as yourself. I mean, this is not some rocket science, this is so simple. See, if you're breathing, is it very difficult to understand that when you breathe, one part of your breathing apparatus are here, but the entire atmospheric bubble is your lung. Without it, you cannot breathe, isn't it? One is pumping in, one is pumping out, in and out, but without this bubble, can you breathe? So at least if you identify with your entire portion of your breath, you would be one with everything. You know, we started a whole movement called Project Green Hands with this. When I saw the Tamil Nadu was moving towards desertification, I just made people sit under a tree and put them through a certain spiritual process where what you exhale trees are inhaling, what trees exhale you are inhaling. Once they experience this, you can't stop them from planting trees. They understood one half of our lungs are hanging out there. Today, out of this simple project that we started 20 years ago or 22 years ago now, over thirty-eight million living trees they have created, they've changed the landscape of Tamil Nadu. Of all the places in the world, southern India, the green cover has increased significantly in the last fifteen years. Eleven percent increase according to Google Maps, seven point two percent according to the government gazette that green cover has increased simply because people experienced. So this is what spiritual process means. I need to experience you in some way as a part of myself. Then no morality needed, no ethic needed. This looks like a long shot. Oh, is this going to happen? Well, nothing is going to happen if you don't strive. It's as simple as that. See, about in United States right now I'm here. For example, 150 years ago, 97% of the population was illiterate. Today everybody can read and write. Why? Because they created the infrastructure of schoolroom, created the infrastructure of teachers, isn't it? If we don't do that, there will be no happening. There are many countries which are still illiterate. Why? Because there's no infrastructure. Similarly, to turn inward to experience the deeper dimensions of our lives, there is no infrastructure. This is what we are trying to build. We have the largest meditation hall in western hemisphere here in United States, in India also we have facilities, but that's not enough for the population. As there are schoolrooms, as there are hospitals, as there are toilets, is it not necessary something for you in a well-being should be everywhere? But today this has become possible much more because of technology. Today we are reaching out, I'm saying we as one organization, we're reaching out to more than one billion people in a year. This was never possible before. Many great beings have come on this planet, but when they spoke, ten people could not hear them. When they spoke, hardly ten, twenty-five people will listen to them and we do not know in how many ways they'll misinterpret them. Today because of technology, see I'm sitting on this part of the world, you're sitting there, we are talking, we can address every human being on the planet. At this time, when we have such technologies, if we don't strive to transform human beings, that means we don't care. I completely agree with you, what a beautiful explanation. And if I were to just summarize into one line, I would feel that, you know, what you're saying is technology should be handled by human intelligence and governed by human-centered rules, you know, look within. And I would just want to say one phrase also, which I thought you said beautifully, you know, I read this in Geeta, it says, take refuge in your Buddha, in your intellect. So going to the next question, Satguruji, I will bring, you know, Einstein and everybody looks at Einstein as a great scientist. But, you know, what he said that he believed that the fundamental laws of nature that govern the earth, you know, something that is observable, something that's unbreakable, rules of cosmos. He said, that is God, because science could not explain things beyond a certain point. And he said, you know, that essentially I believe in cosmic religion, because the observable, unbreakable rules that govern the earth is what is God. I wanted to hear your views. And do you believe that science and spirituality go hand in hand to science and the laws of nature somewhere, you know, connect with human consciousness, the within part that you were explaining? Well, talking about a scientist like Einstein, he said something like this, I'm paraphrasing, I may not be correct on the quote. He said something like this towards the end of his life, when someone asked if you're giving one, if you're given one more chance, for sure you will be a nuclear scientist, wouldn't you be? He said, no, if I'm given another chance, I would rather be a carpenter or a plumber, because he has made many statements like this, talking about how modern science is a very keyhole way of looking at the larger life process. After all, you're trying to understand and delve into life process. When I say life process, planet is life process, cosmos is life process. Life, as we see it, if you want to need an analogy, it is like a cosmos is like a big tree, life is like a small flower. But ultimately all these planets and stars and whatever, whatever they're doing, the flower of that is life. So, I'm a little disappointed even with Albert Einstein because he's still trying to promote one more religion, a new religion. But believe me, you give them a new religion, within a few years they will make that into another kind of fanatic religion, all right? People will do that because identity, again limited identity. So you are a Hindu, I am a cosmic religion, we will fight again. I'm saying, I will call myself cosmic religion but again the same problems will come. So probably in his time he could not speak in any other form, probably in those times, you know, at that time in the early and middle part of 20th century, maybe language wouldn't allow, society wouldn't allow any other way of speech probably. Giving him that, a man of his intelligence definitely saw the hollowness of simply believing something. So now, do you believe you asked, first of all let's come to this. See, there is a way to know things. You know some things, you know you're alive. But you believe many things about where you come from, how you happen, where will you go, all these kinds of stuff. Why is it so difficult for a human being to see I do not know? There is so much about this life that you do not know. What about it? That's why it is so magnificent, that's why you are never done with life. If you live here where a million years you're still not done with life, because still there is a massive amount of space which is I do not know. And I do not know is a tremendous possibility. Only if you see I do not know, the possibility of knowing will become a living reality in your life. Everything that you do not know you believe, that's what you're referring to as religion. I believe this, I believe that. I'm saying why do you believe something? Why do you... why don't you just say I don't know? If you say I do not know, see you're walking on the street like I know, like this. Suddenly you don't know which way to go. Do you see how gentle and polite people become just like that? Have you noticed this? He doesn't know which street to turn. But he knows where to go, bam, bam, bam, he will go. This is the difference between people who believe they know and when you realize you do not know. The moment you realize I do not know the longing to know, the seeking to know and the possibility of knowing becomes a living reality. It's very, very important that we invest this in people, especially in our children, that it does not matter you read as many textbooks as you want, as many scriptures as you want, you still don't know a damn thing. You still don't know a single atom in its entirety. You may know how to use it, you may know how to fuse it, you may know how to break it, but you do not know what it is in its full entirety. You don't know a thing. If you live as... if you're conscious that you do not know, you will have a living intelligence. Otherwise you will make conclusions and then concretize that into belief system and then of course if you have a different belief system, we will want to kill you. This has been going on forever. So I am putting it in a very simplistic terms, but the moment you believe something and I believe something totally different, is there a confrontation or not? Two people, both of us do not know where is the basis to fight. Both of us can explore in as many ways as we want. Life should be a constant process of exploration. Only then there is science. So how do you say science and spirituality, there are no such things. There is only spirituality. Science is just a small physical expression of that. This may insult a lot of scientists and others, but I am saying this. They are only looking at the physical dimension of the universe, right? Am I correct? Science is only concerned about the physical dimension of the universe. Tell me if you look up in the sky, do you see more stars or more empty space? In this universe, in these galaxies, in this cosmos, not even one percent, not even one percent is physical manifestation. Let this rest is just empty space. This is why spiritual process is only concerned about that, 99 percent, not about the one percent. One percent we believe a small part of our intelligence can handle that one percent, the physical aspects of it. 99 percent, what is the nature of what it is and how come where there seems to be nothing makes everything happen. So this is what the word Shiva means in India. People think he is one man who sits on the mountain. No, the word Shiva means that which is not. Our concern is always about that which is not. In the yogic culture, we are always encouraged to invest or identify with our ignorance, never with our knowledge. Because even if you have read the libraries of this world, what you know about this cosmos is a minuscule. If you identify with this knowledge, you will become a minuscule. But our ignorance is boundless, isn't it? If you identify with your ignorance, you will become boundless. See, that's why I'm like this, ignorant and wonderful. I can tell you a small little joke that was going around some time ago. It once happened in... this happened in 2050. So, God, you know, because scientists sought... the scientists of the world sought an appointment with God. And they went there. They told him, hey, old man, you've done pretty well, but it's time you retire because everything that you can do, we can also do. God said, oh, is that so? What can you do? So, they picked up some soil and did whatever processes they did for a period of time and it became a living infant and started crying. God said, well, that's pretty impressive, but first get your own soil. Beautiful. Beautiful, sir. You're forgetting that you're playing your whole game on a particular stage, which is not your making. Very, very true. And I completely agree with you and believe that at a certain point, science comes to a halt and that's where they turn to things that cannot be explained and turn to spirituality or believe that there is something more beyond science. One of your talks that I was listening to as a Guruji, one girl asked you about happiness and joy and, you know, complication of happiness comes from within and joy is coming from outside. And you explained very beautifully that expand the happiness that's within you, you know, search within you that the complex, you know, processor that we are. And immediately I got reminded of, you know, every time when we are trying to explain a variable, we try to say, okay, what are the variations that explain this variable? But we also have some random explanation that, you know, we don't know where it comes from. And reality as science tries to maximize the explained variation and leaves very little to chance. And that's exactly what you said. You said, look for joys from within, try to find and understand yourself. And that's when, you know, it was an aha moment for me, that science is actually derived from human consciousness. And you know, things that you were explaining, I could immediately connect to a lot of science. So I fully agree with you that there is so many things unexplained. And the minute we say, I do not know, it just opens up so many doors of research and experimentation and learning, which we all must be, you know, doing every single day. No, it's not that we say we do not know. We do not know, that's a fact. Yes, absolutely. And above all, today modern science is talking about how human experience is, has a chemical basis, you know. Suppose you lose your peace, you go to the doctor, he gives you a pill and it makes you peaceful for a period of time, something like this. Well, today people have gotten to this, if they want to be peaceful, they should have a glass of wine. If they have to be happy, they must have something more. If they want to be really ecstatic, there are other things which are all becoming legal now, you know, you saw the Oregon state, everything is legal. So I'm saying, for everything to be healthful, to be peaceful, to be joyful, to be blissful, you need chemicals from outside. But the greatest chemical factory is right here. The most sophisticated chemical factory is right here. There is no chemical process happening in the world, which is not happening here. Everything that happens on this planet in some way is happening in this. When you have such a complex chemical factory, the question is only whether you are a wonderful or efficient CEO or you are a lousy CEO. If you are a good CEO, you would produce blissfulness out of your chemistry. If you're a lousy CEO, you make misery out of that. You think stress, anxiety, nonsense is because of the work that you're doing. Okay, get fired and be happy, let me see. I'm saying it's not because of the work. Right now people were saying it was office in the boss. I'm sure you were the point of stress for a whole lot of people who work for you. Now they're all at home and being more stressful, isn't it? So stress is not because of what we do. Stress is simply because you do not know how to manage your own body, your own mind, your own thought, emotion, energies, chemistry. You don't know how to manage yourself. That's why you're stressful, not because of the work that you're doing. Very true, Satguruji. We are generating our own happiness hormone and we are generating our own anxiety hormone and we need to balance and control and manage better. Satguruji, the next question I wanted to ask, as this pandemic has accentuated the need for establishing well-being, peace and happiness of our people, especially in workplace, how can businesses approach this? Should business leaders look at adapting individual well-being in a more holistic and comprehensive manner and form a different perspective? You have been speaking a lot about Inner Engineering. I actually tried to acquire that book before we spoke but I wanted to hear from you. How can we leverage some of the learnings that you put and should business leaders adopt this to ensure well-being of the people considering some of the conversations we had before that people are sad and in many cases, like you said, they have lost many people but in their lives but many of them are stressed because they feel like they're almost jailed inside their houses. So how can we leverage some of this Inner Engineering? Can you explain a little bit of that, Satguruji? It's uncanny you used that word jailed because just a few hours ago I was speaking to the Tamil Nadu prisons, over fifteen thousand prisoners, convicts, long-term convicts who are in Tamil Nadu and how they're longing to go home. Many of them, you know, one of the convicts are asking me who's been in the prison for twenty-three years and how badly they want to go home and those who are at home, how badly they want to get out. So where is the problem? The problem is within you, isn't it? It's not at home, it's not in the prison. It is within you. This is the problem. So having said that about, I don't know if I can take the liberty of structuring India's or the world's future industrial needs, this may look too wacky or too revolutionary right now but I think people will come to it after a few years but it's best we are ahead of times in many ways. Now that this pandemic has pushed us in this direction, first and foremost thing is, there should be no human resource departments. Human is not a resource. Resource means suppose I take iron ore, I know what are the properties, I know what are all the innovations I can make upon it and that's about it. I can't make iron into gold, I can make iron into many, many, many things, useful things. So the same thing if you treat something as a resource, you're only looking at maybe permutations and combinations of what you can do with the same thing but a human being is a potential. You have to unfold him or her as they are, there may be nothing. I'm saying because I'm talking to, I'm using you as an example, suppose we looked at you 20 years ago or 30 years ago, what potential you were and what you are today, is it significantly different, I'm asking. Yes, isn't it? Absolutely. This is not just for you, this is for every human being, it's true. So this is a potential. This potential to unfold, you need to create a right kind of ambience, right kind of nourishment, it's like growing a plant. You may grow of the same plant, I may grow the same plant. See, you have flowers behind you, I have metallic flowers. Look at me, bad gardener I think. So I'm saying if both of us are growing the same plant, depending upon how we take care of it, your plant may yield hundred flowers, mine may come up with one or none. Isn't this happening to human beings across the world? Well nourished, not just physically nourished. In every way, if a human being is kept in proper ambience, they will flourish and become many, many things that you had not imagined possible. But if you don't do that, then they will become nothing or become a big problem in the world. So it is a human potential. Right now, because every industry, for example, you're doing microprocessors, you must focus on that. Why are you trying to manage your human resource? But there is no other way because you have to have your employees, you have to manage them. Somebody is producing steel rods, do they know anything about managing human beings? No, they're also managing. I would say the future of industry and business should go in this direction. There must be human potential business. That means, let's say they hire a hundred million people and now you can, you can outsource your work to them. Your business is only to innovate the processor. Your business is not to manage these human beings because there are lots of trouble. When ten of them get together, they can be a whole lot of trouble if you don't create the right ambience. And every business trying to create this ambience itself is a tragedy. Now we have discovered we can work from home, whatever. Human resource can just look at how to galvanize human beings to be at the highest level of potential. Other industry and business should focus on whatever is their individual subject of focus. This is a very far away thing right now but it can happen. It is time, I know already little bit of outsourcing is happening but that is for specific areas of activity. I'm saying generally, let's say I have hundred million people or ten million people under human resource development and if Intel comes to me, you want thousand people, all right? Iron and steel wants that. Every kind of thing, see teaching them a skill is not a problem if they are unimpeded by their own thoughts, their own emotions and training them to do something is very quick. It can be done. Anyway, they would have gone through an education process which already puts them into a slot. In that slot, developing them from one to another, I don't know, I've not looked at where all you work before but a whole lot of people. Today or in technology, yesterday they were in management, the many of them who are doctors, today they're managing big companies, you know all kinds of things because human potential can develop whichever way your education or initial training need not fix it. This is what corporate world or corporate structures are looking at but that is not happen in a seamless way. We must... those who are good at managing human potential, nurturing human potential should manage human beings. Those who are good at processors or steel, steel or this one or that one, they should do that. So this may look completely off. I'm saying instead of having twenty thousand employees in Intel, probably you can have just two hundred core people. Rest of them can be taken just from anywhere according to your needs. Your costs also will come down, your troubles will come down, your infrastructure will come down. When I say your infrastructure will come down, this will bring down the stress on the planet significantly. This just this thing that everybody works from home itself is a significant drop in infrastructure, isn't it? I was... I was to speak at San Francisco Club sometime ago and I was driving about forty-five minutes, I had to drive to that place and my side of the road was fully packed with traffic and the opposite side also packed. I was talking to some of the top business leaders there and I asked them, why have you guys, all of you are brilliant people who are thinking of economics, who are thinking of every little thing that you can do more efficiently, full of technology. Why is it people who live here work there, people who live there work here and look at Bangalore traffic, everybody is working in the wrong place or living in the wrong place, isn't it? I've been talking to Karnataka government and also a few builders. Yeah, I'm saying just go out of Bangalore city, fifty kilometers, even hundred kilometers, go out, take fifty acres. Anyway, you have two FSI permission. Just one acre, build hundred floors. Remaining forty-nine acres, have a wonderful forest. This building should have housing, offices, at least school up to seven standard, little bit of shopping, small theater, whatever you want. That is five to six days in a week, you don't step out of the building, you stay in your own thing. Completely, no power lines, no sewer lines, nothing. It can be completely self-sustained. Above all, children will get to grow up in good atmospheres. Right now in Bangalore city, if they step out of their home, they are into the traffic. This is how children are growing up. When children grow like this, how I've grown up in open spaces, when I see the children growing up without playing a game, without knowing what is the open space, what kind of adults will they be? What… how will you do this, I'm saying? So you can have a bonsai tree in your home. Is that the same as a full grown tree? So you are making human beings into bonsais, small scale. Just everybody grows up physically because they're eating well. Beyond that, nothing happens because if something has to happen, it needs exposure, it needs other atmosphere. You need many, many things to happen. I must tell you this, right now pandemic everywhere raging, we are over 4,000 people in the yoga center in India, not a single infection. 47 villages that in which we are managing, there have been barely any infections. A few people only who came from outside. Chief minister mentioned in one of his reports, how come in this area there are no infections? Now here also there are enough people in this ashram. We are doing our programs, everything is going on, but not a single infection. This is just a little bit of conscious responsible behavior, strong immune systems, that's all it takes. So this pandemic especially, it is not being carried by mosquitoes or rats or some other creatures, all right? It is carried by us. When we are the carriers, I'm saying the simplest thing would be, if all of us were conscious human beings, the one instruction we would follow, if all of us simply sit in our own homes, maybe meditate or maybe watch the television, do whatever the hell you want. Don't come near any other human being for 14 days. Pandemic is over in the world. Now in countries like in European countries, France, Germany, Belgium, UN, UK, soldiers are on the street quietly. Armed soldiers are on the street to manage the population because they want to party. Somebody wants a haircut, all right? Their mothers and grandfathers and grandmothers have died recently, but they want a haircut. That is the level of compulsiveness that we have. If we do not build a conscious population, more and more technology means more and more trouble. That's what we will create for ourselves. As we become more empowered, there is a fundamental need that we become more conscious and responsible, not a reactive, compulsive society. Absolutely. With a lot of power, with a lot of technology, a lot of responsibility should come. And based on what you said, Sadhguruji, how important it is to give an environment for our children, for our people to thrive in and you know, it is so important to have nature near them. It is so important to have, you know, the normal playing style. So, you know, they don't just live with technology. And you know, it's very true, because recently, Sadhguruji, I read an article, it's about biology, about how memories can be encoded in somebody's DNA and can manifest four or five generations later. So, for example, if my great grandmother was really, really scared of lizards and that gets, you know, imprinted into her DNA, without even having seen a lizard, I will get scared. So, I'm saying good actions, good deeds and, you know, nice things that we do being aware of us. And like you beautifully say that, you know, you see yourself in me, I see myself in you, because that's how, you know, we experience everything within. I think we have to do a lot of good deeds, like you say, to create a generation that is happier. So, I want to ask you one more question, Sadhguruji. And if there is time, we'll perhaps do one more. If you look at Hindu philosophy, we talk about what is called Darshan Shastra. And I'm very new to it. I have a lot to learn. So, I'm going to speak your input. And Darshan Shastra for people who don't understand Hindi Sanskrit means guiding philosophies. And there are, you know, six guiding philosophies, but classified into three major categories. One is Turk. Turk means logic. The second is Sankhya. Sankhya means enumeration of, you know, information. And then there is Mimansa, which is also logic and, you know, experience kind of logic. And when you look at similar kind of, you know, philosophy coming from Aristotle, he used Lobos, Pathos, Ethos for basically convincing kind of arguments. And, you know, similarly, we have Maslow's pyramid, which talks about, you know, evolution of human beings into ultimately getting into a state where he's totally learned. And when we look at our philosophy, there is, you know, Sankhya Yoga, there is Karma Yoga, and then there is Buddha Yoga, which is, you know, it leads to the evolution. Do you think these were like parallel thought processes happening? How come they are like so similar? Well, today, unfortunately, most of us grew up in schools reading Indian history written by English people. Now in the world, the French historians have been writing India's history to some extent, world history, but they're touching on India also, which is very different from the way the British did it, because British did it with an intent of control. So in this, there are a lot of things of how the transaction between Ancient Greece and India was very, very on. So Apollonius is one who came to India, and when he went to Egypt, he was actually persecuted for this because he said, if you have not visited India like the Ancient Greeks have, you know nothing. You know nothing worthwhile if you've not visited India. So this is not my nationalistic sense saying India is everything, but India is one nation or Bharat, as we know it, is one culture. Let's call it a culture because today we understand nationality or nation as a political entity, not as a political entity, but as a geographical entity, we were one nation. This is why we called ourselves Hindustan, which means the land that lies between Himalayas and the Indusagara, which is today known as Indian Ocean. The land that lies between these two geographical features was Hindustan. Why this became a very unique culture is it had an uninterpreted development of culture and human development happening for about six to seven thousand years. Because the Himalayas protected us from warlords coming from elsewhere and the Indian Ocean always was a protection for us, till the ships became, you know, the way to come. That was only in the last few hundred years, till then it was all blocked. So because of this uninterrupted thing, our focus was not on our survival process. Land was rich, full of rivers, wildlife and vegetation was richest in this country. Even today, if you take a handful of soil, there are over fifty thousand species of microbes in the Indian soil, in the southern Indian soil especially, which is not comparable to anything in the world. Fifty thousand species exist in one handful of soil. So that gave us a very rich fauna and flora, which made our lives easy in terms of survival. And there were no invasions happening, no battles and wars of a great proportion. This also became our problem because we did not develop such armies, we did not develop fighting men. Men, men and women involved in spirituality, in mathematics, in astronomy and various other arts, but not fighting men. They were very small segment of fighting men. This is why the nation or this culture was conquered so easily, a few hundred people who came from elsewhere, actually they came as bandits. But when they saw the culture was so soft, they became emperors, or a period of time, because they were fighting men and here men were interested in higher things. So we did not find that balance of external and internal became too much internal and intellectual because of that we paid a price. Having said that, now the important thing about these three dimensions that you mention is, well how yoga looks at it is, there are four dimensions of intelligence within you. One is a buddhi, which is the intellect. Intellect is wonderful as an instrument of survival. You can survive in this world only if your intellect is reasonably sharp. And you want it sharp. Everybody if you ask any human being you want it, you buddhi sharp or blunt, you would say, I want it sharp. So it is like a knife, it's a cutting instrument. If I give you a cutting instrument, first thing is you must know where to hold it. If you hold the blade side of it, the harder you hold it, the more it will hurt you. This is what you are seeing across the world. People are hurt by their own intellect. They don't need any external help. They are poking themselves all the time. Another aspect of the intellect is, as it is a cutting instrument, as it's a knife, you can use it only for cutting purposes. You want to stitch your clothes, you used your knife to stitch them, you will be entitled. That is what is happening to human life right now with modern education, where we recognize only intellect as intelligence. For this we are paying a heavy price. Other dimensions of intelligence are not coming forth. Now people are beginning to talk emotional intelligence. But the way you think is the way you feel, they are not two different things. Because how you think is how you feel, they are not separate. It is just that one is a more sappier part of the intellect, which is emotion. But there are other dimensions of intelligence within you. The next one is called as ahankara. This is the identity. Ahankara does not mean ego, it means your identity. As we already went through this, I'll skip this because your identity determines how your knife functions. If my identity is such that I feel you are a threat to my identity, my knife will poke you. This is how human intellect works. I think I belong to this nation. Now my intellect constantly works how to protect this identity. I see things like that, I feel things like that. If I just see my flag, tears will come to me, you know? Just see how it works, the identity. It is your identity which makes you feel tomorrow is your son's birthday. It's your identity as a mother. Happy birthday to him anyway. It's your identity as mother which makes you with all these emotions. How come another child does not invoke the same emotion, even though you may be kind and nice to the other child, he does not invoke the same emotion simply because of identity. Don't think it's because of genetics. Don't think it's because of blood because at the time of birth in a hospital if a child gets exchanged, still you will love the child just as yours not knowing what it is because it is the identity which makes all this happen. So human intellect is always trying to do things according to its identity. This is why I said you must have a cosmic identity. That is when your intellect will function for everybody's well-being. That is when human intelligence can be harnessed for larger things that you will not be a consequence of your individual ambition, but of a larger vision for everything. The third dimension is called as manas, the question that you asked how if your grandmother had a problem with the lizard, that problem comes to you though you have not seen a lizard. Yes, today science is accepting this, but forever we've been talking about samskara. What is your samskara? Because of your samskara, you're experiencing things in a certain way. What we call as manas is a silo of memory. Silo of memory means here there is elemental memory, there is evolutionary memory, there is genetic memory, there is karmic memory, there is articulate and inarticulate forms of memory, there is subconscious and conscious forms of memory. Right now most of the memory that you're using your daily life, in your work, in your family, all this is just conscious memory, which is a thin veneer. It is not really much, it's just a thin sheet, that's all it is. Rest is all unconscious. When I say unconscious, see right now, see whatever you eat, let us say, let me not use you as an example, you're a big CEO, I can use myself. Suppose me and a dog eat the same food for next one year, there is no risk of me becoming a dog or the dog becoming me, because there is properly encrusted memory, evolutionary memory in this that this is a human being. Whatever you put, it only becomes a human being because every cell in this body has a microprocessor, which clearly remembers this is a human being. It will never confuse itself. Next thing is, well, it doesn't matter you come to another country and eat their food, you will not become like them, your genetic memory decides that you are like this only, no matter what. Similarly, karmic memory also plays the similar kind of role. Depending upon your karmic memory, various likes, dislikes, what you know, what you're drawn towards, what you're repelled from, all this thing is there. But the entire spiritual process is about distancing yourself from this, because if your memory, your memory should be a platform upon which you stand and able to reach out for something higher. But if you sink into your memory, your memory will become a trap, because memory means it's a boundary. See, for example, let's say now I've seen you on the video, if I see you on the street, oh, it's Nehruti, I know her, you know, this. Suppose I have not seen you, I've just been talking to you on the phone and you come on the street, you're a stranger, you're out of my memory board, that's all it is. My memory is my region of operation, my memory is my boundary for my existence. What is beyond my memory, in India we'll say it's stranger, in America we say they're weird. Somebody who doesn't look like me, doesn't feel like me is a weird creature, all right? So essentially memory is a limitation, but it is only with memory you are who you are. It is a tremendous possibility, but it's a limited possibility. So there is a fourth dimension of intelligence called chitta. Chitta means it is an intelligence, it's pure intelligence without an iota of memory in it. That means if you touch your chitta, you become boundless in your perception. So in the yogic parlance, there is a mischievous way of saying this. The yogis say if you touch your chitta, God will become your slave. For this you may get killed in many cultures, but in yoga we say if you touch your chitta, God will be your slave because you don't even have to ask what you want. Simply what is needed will happen for you all the time. So these are the four dimensions of intelligence. This Tarka, Memamsa, I'm sorry, what is the Sankhya Memamsa, this is a way of dividing the intellect. The front end, the knife you're dividing as the blade and the handle and the hand and whatever like this, but we are looking at intelligence per se. These are the four dimensions, but unfortunately our education systems have given us this feeling that memory is intelligence. Mem, this is the greatest harm we have done to humanity is making them believe memory is intelligence. If I can read the damn textbook and remember every word, everybody thinks I'm brilliant, but today you know your chip can do it. Hello? It can remember more than I can remember in my head. A simple, you know, my phone has bigger memory than most human beings on the planet. That's why they call it a smart phone because you call something smart only when it's smarter than you. Very true. I think smartness of gadgets and technologies are only augmentation. The intelligence, like you said, is within. So, Sadguruji, the last question I'm asking, I know we are running a little bit, you know, beyond time, but it is important because in Karnataka, we will be now looking at process of disseminating vaccines. So as COVID-19 vaccine becomes available in India and then the whole world is grappling with the decision as to who should be vaccinated first. The question of prioritizing people's access to the vaccine, you know, has practical as well as moral implications. What are your thoughts on those? Because very soon, I will be part of a team which in Karnataka will be looking at disseminating vaccine and hopefully the vaccine is coming in December. Well, somebody asked me about this in United States. Sadguru, there are vaccines which are already validated in Russia. If you want, we'll get it for you. Why don't you take the vaccine? You are very important. So I told them and I'm saying this in public today that when the vaccine comes, if I'm not the last person to take it, I will be among the last people to take it. I've made that decision. It doesn't matter. I will be the last one or among the last group of people to take it. Having said that, why I am saying that I'll explain later. In terms of who should get it fast, I think the logical answer will be those who are exposed most. Those whose lives are most at risk, medical personnel for sure, hundred percent, police personnel who are active in duty and unfortunately many officers have died, both in India and outside the country. And vulnerable populations like comorbid, people who are like over sixty-five, seventy years of age, but they can also restrict their lives and control it. But more vulnerable means more exposed. People who are working on a daily basis. It may be just somebody who, you know, sweeps the floor in a railway station. It could be all those people who have to go out to work to make a living today. They must get it fast. It is very important if you want to stop the pandemic, but whatever you do, people who have the money and influence will try to get it in their own way. So I feel this will be very controversial what I say just now, what I will say just now. But I would want people to think about it without reacting. I would say you must also make it available to rich and powerful and charge them big time. Let's say it's one lakh rupees for the vaccine. What we should do is if somebody pays one lakh rupees for the vaccine, I don't know what's the cost. I'm just assuming if it's hundred rupees cost for the vaccine, then this one lakh should be given if one rich person or one, you know, economically capable person gets it out of turn. That many vaccines must be given to people who cannot afford it. Some kind of a judgment because ultimately you will need money to distribute. You will need economic prowess to distribute. So those who think they're... they can pay for it. They must pay heavily so that others can get it. But that must be made mandatory that underhand people will start getting anyway. Please understand this. I'm saying this just to prevent the corruption. This is not my priority, but to prevent the corruption that people who can pay whatever and black marketing of vaccines will happen, then fake vaccines will come. It is like liquor. You know, when you ban the liquor, all kinds of things will happen. Suddenly so many people will die consuming some spurious liquor. The same things will happen. Somebody will start selling gutter water as vaccine and suddenly so many people will die. All these problems will come. So instead of that, you know, in some way organize these corrupt minds in such a way that it will benefit the country. Very, very lovely suggestion. Actually, if you look at, you know, couple of business models in hospitals like the Shankara Eye Hospital, I feel wonderful that, you know, people who can afford a paying such that people who cannot afford can get the pay. Yes. So I love this... That has to be that way. Yes. I will make... Even our... our own programs are like this. In the cities, if you want your same engineering program, if you want it in a five-star hotel, it costs so much. You want it in one chowl tree, it costs so much. You want it in somebody's house hall, costs so much. In the villages, it's absolutely free. Seventy percent of our programs are free in the villages. But if somebody doesn't pay, how to keep the service going? So corporations, you know, who sign up for bulk, you know, need to pay a little bit more such... And you know, this could be process that we could build. So thank you, Sadhguruji, for your time. I will again say that, you know, it was my honor to be able to talk to you. Despite the fact that I'm sitting thousands of miles away from you, I felt your energy, the positivity. And I hope everybody listening to you feels the same way. And, you know, goes back home with, you know, more enlightenment and looks at ways to become happier through these times. They're already home and they don't have to go back home. They're just home. See, you're also doing all your work from your bedroom. Sir, Guruji, I tell my office, I'm not working from home. I'm actually sleeping at office because I'm working... seems like I'm working from home. That's true. Thank you very, very much, sir, Guruji. Namaskar. My congratulations and best wishes for the Bangalore Tech Summit. Hope this will bring in a lot of technology and investments to this city and also hope it brings infrastructure. And all of you working from home will reduce the traffic on the road and make Bangalore once again a beautiful garden city that it was, 40-50 years ago when I used to come there often. Thank you, Sir, Guruji and Namaskara.