 Good afternoon and welcome to the Vermont Affordable Housing Show. Today we're going to talk about mobile home parks and their residents and current issues facing them with me today are my guests. Thank you so much both of you for being here. We have Sandrine Kibue from CVOEO's mobile home project and Vermont tenants. Sandrine is the director of both projects and also with us today is Laura Mistretta who works for the mobile home project doing resident organizing. If I got that all right again my name is Erhard Manca. I'm your every other month host and this is a call-in show just a reminder the call-in number for any question or comment you might have related to mobile home parks, mobile homes or affordable housing. The call-in number is 862-3966 so call-in we've got a half hour and we'll field any questions that you might have. Before we begin the show or begin interviewing our guests today just a couple of reminders, a couple of announcements. Even though it's summer folks in the housing world continue to get together to talk about housing and homelessness issues on Tuesday August 20th is the monthly meeting of the Vermont Coalition and Homelessness in Randolph from 10 to 12 and also coming up next month in September is part two of the Burlington Housing Summit. It will be from 6 to 8 p.m. at City Hall and there is a link to more information on the Housing Summit on the mayor, a Mayor of Merrill Weinberger's website. The mayor will be hosting that and again it's part two of the summit that happened in June and will review some of the policy recommendations that came out of the first part in June and we'll also have that link again at the end of the show. So with those announcements let's turn to our guests to Sandrine and to Laura again thanks so much for being here today and I know it was short notice but these these shows kind of come come up pretty quickly especially when you have summer vacations going on but maybe if you two could start by giving our viewers maybe a quick kind of primer on why are mobile homes an important affordable housing resource and especially why are mobile home parks an important resource and Sandrine maybe I'll start with you and you guys can sort of you know answer as you as you see fit. Sure. I do believe that most people know or I hope that most people know that we have about 1,200 and 91 Vermonters that experiencing homelessness right now which comes to about 917 households and I would say just that mobile homes are a great source of affordable housing. They we have about two 146 mobile homes right now parks right now and 7149 lots and without nationally speaking we have about eight and point five million of mobile homes in the United States right now so affordable housing is what it is for low and moderate income Vermonters for sure so I do believe that this is what is so important to talk about it today or any day actually. Laura you want to add something today? Sure yeah you know I think it's also really important to know you know our program mostly works with residents of mobile home parks and again just to highlight the affordability aspect of this type of housing that is unmatched by any other type of housing in the state you know lot rents are at a median statewide of about $340 a month and considering that almost 90% of residents households in Vermont's mobile home parks own their homes outright that is cheaper than any rent you're going to get elsewhere in Vermont and especially that most Vermonters pays more than 30% of their income on housing so yeah and so this is a great way for folks to get into home ownership where they have a little more control I mean if you're in a park you don't have complete control because there's a park owner could be a for-profit landlord could be a non-profit but at least you own or co-op right of course I should forget I used to help organize co-ops so it's a way to get more control over your housing but with that come some issues also right yes like sorry the lack of a was actually try to introduce our program the CVO your mobile home program works with residents and our services are really based on advocacy we do provide we have a hotline that deals with concerns that may have and referral services and also organizing Laura talked about co-ops which is a way for the mobile home residents to actually own even the soil which they rent so this is a great avenue for most of total control actually via membership but this is basically what our program provide but I'm going to turn to Laura to explain exactly in a little bit more details about the activities that we have under the CVO mobile home program sure yeah can I interrupt for one second so cvoo stands for shampoong valley office of economic opportunity is one of the five communication agencies serving the western part of Vermont thanks sorry to interrupt acronym busting here for folks who are not you know familiar with all the housing jargon sure yeah yeah but so getting into a little bit more you know about what the mobile home program does and the importance of our program um as as Sandrine's already mentioned in an air herd you mentioned there's challenges to owning your home and renting the land um you know their park owners are responsible for providing the basic necessities clean water functioning septic system you know functional roads electrical maintaining trees drainage um and home owners really they they're they own their homes for the most part and that's what they're responsible is just the actual structure that is their home so if a park owner is not doing a good job of maintaining the road or the electrical system or the water system you know it's not as simple as not saying it's simple for a renter to have to pick up and move but at least they could you know theoretically pack all their things up and move them to a new apartment if they're and if that apartment's not being taken care of properly with a mobile home park it's a lot more challenging it can cost thousands of dollars to move a home and a lot of homes are just very old and not able to be moved so so mobile in name only yeah mobile in that they are initially trucked in yeah though you know there was some new regulations we might see that being a little easier but still it costs money to move these homes so yeah so we counsel you know we educate residents about their rights um if a park owner is not living up to their end of the deal and providing the correct level of services we we give them some information about steps they can take to enforce those those laws you know and again we we work with parks on a community level when there's really big events like a really significant rent increase since mobile home parks actually the only type of housing in Vermont that has some form of rent control we work with residents throughout the mediation process we work with parks that go out for sale and educate residents about their right to form a cooperative and connect them with the correct you know resources to do that um and yeah and then as as sandrine said you know a big part of this is advocacy whether it is on the individual level but also you know getting more interested in in sort of the statewide level of making sure that mobile home parks are are seen and treated as the critical source of affordable housing that they are sure because i mean some people have you know attached stigmas to mobile home parks and um they are as you mentioned first of all a great affordable housing resource last i remember uh sandrine you gave the numbers earlier but it's about seven to eight percent of the entire housing stock in the in the state of romano i remember at one point it used to be around nine percent right we've lost some of that but it's it that's still a very significant percentage and because you have the split between the ownership of the home and somebody else owning or an organization owning the park there's certain rights that have been that lawmakers have put into vermont statute in order to protect residents you mentioned kind of rent control or rent mediation and then people have rights in in terms of when a park gets goes up for sale or when a park is potentially closed which is also also happened what maybe just i know it's a it's a very um long and and uh sort of wonky uh subject but what does happen when someone uh when a park owner says they want to sell or or close what just maybe quickly give folks an idea of what kind of rights people have um in vermont law and what you do in those situations sure yeah so um if a when a park owner decides they want to sell the park um they have to send out a notice to every single household in the park and also to the department of housing and community development who also plays a role in enforcing the laws protecting mobile home park residents and i have to uh to add that um the department of housing and community development is one of our primer funders when it comes to our first stop grant which actually does the work that we do at mobile homes yeah yeah there there are you know our most consistent partner yeah quick shout out to arthur hamlin at department of housing and community development who used to run the mobile home program many years ago but um has now been um partnering with you guys from within state government to make sure that rent their mobile home park residents have their rights protected right yeah so you know the second that arthur gets a notification he sends it over to us um and um the the sale notice will will say whether the sale is due to a potential closure of the park so that would basically say if the park does not get sold then the park owner is intending to close and that's an important piece of information to know from the start for sure um we haven't seen too many park closure notices recently there's been a there's has been one lot closure recently um but and there's different rights and different responsibilities for the owner and rights for the residents based on whether it's a closure or or a sale yeah i mean and yeah and essentially though if when the park was up for sale residents have the right to organize and sign a petition stating that they are interested in looking into the feasibility of forming a cooperative or would like to designate a non-profit to do that work and look into purchasing the park on you know and managing it and that's part of where you guys come in and you do you can help them organize a residents association uh and together with Arthur make sure i'm there's certain things he can and can't say as a state employee uh you as an advocacy group out in the in the field as a non-profit there may be other things that you can advise uh and and you have a different advocacy role in that in that equation right so uh referral services is what we do when it comes to feasibility of course it costs money so uh helping them in the process of acquiring some a financial assistance doing the feasibility um a report that is required actually to know if they are able to purchase the park or the non-profit to do so um and um leading them into really know how a co-op might work if it's something that they might be able to do as a community um and uh going forward with the the end of process which is you know um to go forward with the the organization of the cooperative and so that that inspection is kind of like the equivalent of if you're looking to buy a home you go out and have an inspection done to see is there something wrong with the home that needs to be repaired or done before you buy it or you know after you buy it so that you go in with your eyes wide open so that's that's something that needs to be done when yes of course even though the uh the the inspection like you call it is not as extensive as it should be because of the uh infrastructures um that we issues that we see in parks um and uh mostly looks at the aesthetic of the park you know more than anything else so um it is a costly process of course it takes time um but uh we are here to help with um that process and you both mentioned co-ops as one of the options so is that something that the mobile home program does to work with residents on becoming a co-op if that's their their choice so we we wouldn't inform them of that option and can you know work alongside them through that process but really another critical partner in this work in here in vermont is the cooperative development institute um they provide the technical assistance to actually help the board function train the board and and really do a lot of the administrative background to to forming this co-op um and negotiating with the seller and and provide the financing in some instances sometimes yeah that because they're connected to a national network that is working to create these these co-ops so there are mobile home cooperatives you know all over the country at this point right and if they don't go co-op the other option for you both mentioned nonprofits what's what's another option um that um that that we have in vermont well like you know like you know you know you mentioned that you know when you buy a home there'd be an inspection you have to you have to make sure that the home it's in good state to actually buy it with the price that is offered or the price that is um uh presented um and a nonprofit um nonprofits that are definitely uh in some part of the state a major a major mobile home park for instance owners for some acct which is the uh Addison county community trust yeah um serving the um the central part of vermont or Addison county yeah yeah yes right um and um the process is um it's uh pretty much just I would say the same as uh a cooperative because they would be the owner of the land and they would be the owner of the park so leasing the lots this in the lots so yes well great so we do have rights and protections and these options but we also know that there have been a couple of reports that have been done and they kind of come uh I I guess in a tradition of mobile home commissions that we've had um over many years over 20 years uh looking into issues having to do with um mobile home parks and and living in a mobile home park uh in vermont I remember the first one it wasn't on the first one it was I think in 1992 or 91 92 I was on the last one uh about 10 or 15 years ago but now we have two new reports and they raise a number of issues uh that have been identified uh that that are challenges many of them and opportunities for mobile home parks in their residence so maybe uh I don't know Sandrine what if you could maybe start talk about you know the the two reports that um we've received recently um sure um uh development housing a conservative board um has um done an assessment on 52 affordable mobile home parks owned by nonprofits um and um it was really to look at um vulnerabilities and financial burden that these parks have because yes they do um have some issues uh regarding uh infrastructure as one of them that is a major one of window maintenance and even um the repairs that is costly um when it comes to um the um activity itself uh and there were a second report done by Justin uh Susick it was one of our um intern from the shepherd consensium on uh poverty eight weeks that he has been with us and provided a report talking about an ongoing forum um which is somewhat uh the uh result of the assessment itself uh from the VSCB which is the Vermont uh conservative um housing uh am I missing any other name housing and okay we all refer to it as VHCB but viewers out there may not know what VHCB stands for Vermont Housing and Conservation Board so uh like I said there's some um a conclusions that uh was reported which is you know market marketability of the mobile home parks I mean young um Vermontos don't really have uh that uh attraction to buy or reside in mobile homes and probably because of the stigma uh there is also the uh financial uh capital need that we um definitely um is needed for um mobile home parks at this point here um relocation of um mobile home parks that are residing on the flood zone it's something that we have seen with um uh Irene um and the location even though uh efforts were made to move some of them but uh we have seen a lot uh that's still in the same flooding area which makes it very expensive for all of them to be moved at once it's expensive for the resident it's expensive for the mobile home park event um since they will lose a portion of their uh for example tri park down here at Rattleboro has a number of they were flooded out during tropical storm Irene or portions and and portions have already been moved but there's a lot left a lot left to do um so the recommendation of the steering committee was uh first for first for most um uh the creation of some uh subcommittee um that we will be definitely looking at issues and uh solutions when it comes to concerns uh regarding mobile home parks um and I do believe that the Vermont um housing affordable housing coalition uh will be the host of that subcommittee we're willing to do that if uh you know that's one of the things that coalition the coalition could do is act as an umbrella for you know these kinds of efforts they're multi-sector multi-part partisan and and will involve a number of different players so right and um this the second portion of that um report I like the need of advocating in front of the general assembly for um some um of course funding and policy change um so that is really the two major recommendation that this report is highlighting um do you want to add anything else uh Laura or you want to maybe a little breakdown I mean funding's a big kind of big issue and and a you know it's multifaceted there's a number of uh aspects to that Laura I you know I don't know if you want to talk about you know the different aspects of funding that might be needed or Sandrine sure yeah um so yeah so the VHCB report identified a number of different funding pools that would be helpful uh for for mobile home parks in vermont primarily though they're looking at you know funding to address infrastructure issues again those water systems septic systems things like that yeah um a lot of these parks are very old three quarters of them were built before there were any codes to even regulate these systems going in and there's very so um they're not in the best shape um they were built by the original owners um there's not even a lot of information about some of the systems some were built in the 60s or yeah before there were federal right around mobile home standards and so infrastructure's one issue infrastructure's one another one you mentioned older mobile homes yeah yeah so that is a that is a second really big issue is that there vermont does have a really old housing stock not just in our stick built homes but also in the mobile homes um and so a lot of homes were built before I think it's like 1980 something and which is quite old and most are not on foundations so they're not holding up well and they're some of them are literally falling apart um and so parks really struggle with that you know a lot of people again like we said earlier it's not easy to actually move these homes so most people do not move them move the homes when they leave the park they leave them behind they abandon them and so park owners are left with these homes um once they take ownership over them and they're not cheap to get rid of right they're not cheap to get rid of you know thousands and thousands of dollars to to demolish a home um and then you know but then there's they're left there and they need they end up selling that home you know maybe for very little money but still someone's continuing to live in this substandard home um so yeah there's definitely a discussion about the need to have some kind of small quicker money available to address these sorts of issues because that's a you know if there's a home abandoned that's a lot that's not bringing in lot rent um and help not helping the park the other issue if you're i'm sorry go ahead yes you are to that there is also the the maintenance and the rehabilitation of a home for residents and themselves i mean um yeah to be able to access from the financial assistance to um maintain your home or to rehabilitate your home or to repair your home when you're a mobile park resident is very very limited um there is a few um um funding for um the um when you want to become a first home buyer when it comes to mobile home uh residents um through uh that's a third issue right on the infrastructure and either rehab or replacement there's entry level how do you get into mobile home ownership right correct um and um what what would you say um because of that that really tiny access to financial assistance this is one of the um one of the major um financial need that the uh report actually i lied we had some success during the last legislative session on that yes yes about 250 000 dollars had been increasing it was christ um and i do believe it's uh the revenue bill age 541 250 000 increase to the state affordable housing test credit uh that includes also yes so that can be used for mobile home purchase or replacement yeah so yes right that more energy efficient home uh or new home right correct um the the um other other thing that i wanted to highlight is the um although the uh statute is very um somewhat uh in Vermont uh clear um on certain things when it comes to the have believe me have believe i know i have trouble with that one too yes um the state of your home let's say that um good one yes uh and because of the the the location of some of those um mobile homes uh in private parks um the um willy knowledge of having a town health officer coming and look through um these um code violations that might they might have in their homes and or even outside the home um for safety and health issues um it is it is it is somewhat very difficult to access so i do believe that the uh the rental advisory board mentioned the um new process that will be coming up with code enforcement and i hope that mobile homes resident will be able to uh benefit from that restructure um in a that will only apply to rental homes though yes um i'm just trying to put yeah got it understood understood no it's it's it's definitely been an issue an issue yes a couple of years ago i remember there was legislative initiative to clarify that actually department housing community development has some um um some regulatory authority over over conditions of course the agency and natural resources has um yeah they deal with sewer and septic and the water so it's it's like really divided up right it's not good right right so we i hope that we touch that subject please yeah um well another very important issue so are there other policy issues we've got maybe four minutes left are there other policy issues we talked about rent mediation earlier is that something that you see coming up as as uh as as an issue that is right now basically if a park owner wants to increase lot rent above the consumer price index plus one percent they have to go to mediation there's some allowances for capital improvements but um well i don't have to go to mediation but residents have the right to request me but there's been some legislation that's been introduced by one of our county centers center beruth around uh bringing it down to the cpi plus point five yeah if you don't mind because of the two report that we had we talked about the the the phcb report um and um our um uh uh intern report that actually um brings some recommendation that the cvo mobile home program might have when it comes to that the formation of subcommittee um if you don't mind us going through yeah it looks like we've got one minute left i'm getting a signal sorry one minute okay so the the list is pretty clear the first thing that i won't mention is that the subcommittee would have a very clear uh the question of a clear unconscious mission settlement because um although it would be based on what the the um the results of the findings the findings of the phcb report um we believe that it has to be a you know beyond that yeah mobile homes are affordable housing it needs to be known and it needs to be taken as such and for that police exchange is a must financial assistance is definitely crucial yeah um and um also when it comes to lobbying uh lobbying we have a homeless day we have uh do believe um we had a domestic violence uh day at the uh at the state house i do believe that mobile home parks issues are so grand that we should have one day really looking at this issue um since it is um constituting seven percent of affordable housing in the state of Vermont um when it comes to mediation that's a very good last point that we're going to make uh with different maintenance laura please go ahead with different maintenance and the the financial we're we're gonna have to really wrap it up yes that's okay um the last thing we just want to say the subcommittee we're really excited to make sure that we're including resident voices and we're making sure that any policies and financial you know initiatives we're pushing for also taking into account the privately owned parks where the vast majority of residents live and we just want to be clear that that's really where where we're hoping to to push this group well sorry to cut you off at the end here it's a lot to cover in a half hour thank you cendrine thank you laura thank you and thank you viewers for tuning in we uh have some uh web resources the reports links to the reports that were mentioned as well as your organization your program and and the Vermont affordable housing coalition and we'll hopefully see you on wednesday october second for uh another edition of the Vermont affordable housing show uh at 525 thank you again