 Okay. Welcome to the Amherst Historical Commission's public meeting on Thursday, October 12, 2022, based on Governor Baker's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law signed Thursday, March 12, 2020, this meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform. My name is Janet Markleard and as chair of the Amherst Historical Commission, I'm calling this meeting to order at 634pm. This meeting is being recorded and minutes are being taken. I'll now take a roll call of commissioners in attendance as you hear your name called unmute yourself answer and then please place yourselves back on mute. Trisha off. It's not here. Robin Fordham. Present. Madeleine Helmer. Present. Rebecca Lockwood. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I'm here. Okay, everybody mute until we get further along. Opportunity for public comment and questions we provided during the general public comment period later in the agenda. So the first thing on the agenda is a public hearing. So we'll do that first. Do we have a representative to speak to us yet? Yeah. So the applicant himself had to actually leave the country for a family emergency. So, attorney Tom Reed is here on the applicants perhaps. Okay. Hello, thanks for attending. And everyone's looked at the application and the photos. No, I'm happy to share some of the. Always online at the document center, which I forgot today and had to ask Ben Europe on mute. So I can't tell what you're saying. Becky, you're on mute. I do always look, but it wasn't there when I was. Okay. Okay. Well, Ben can walk us through really quickly. It's a very simple situation. Yeah. Yeah, I'm happy to give it a little bit of a. And then Tommy can jump in, but I'll just give a little bit of background just because I just described it in my email that the. So it's the barn at 332 West street. It's at the intersection of Mount Holyoke drive and West street. And you can see it from 116. And it was the, I described in an email that it was the subject of a CPA application in 2017. 2014, 2014 that far back. Okay. So it's a, you know, it was a historical commission, you know, eight years ago, recognize it as an important historical asset for the town meet the owners approach the town looking for CPA funds to help restore it. The project was funded. However, the owners backed out and never accepted the grant due to the not wanting to take on the preservation restriction. So the barn then kind of laid in its current deteriorating condition for a few more years until the current owner bought it. I don't know exactly when maybe the past few years. And they are. I'm still in the detail of my understanding that they're trying to, or they intend to replace the roof on this bill on the barn. And, you know, because of our new bylaw and the age of this structure, it triggered the preservation bylaw because it's, you know, replacing the roof. Which is considered demolition and it's a significant building. So that's kind of the scope of, you know, what we're looking at today for this barn. The existing bar roof material, which I kind of don't believe is original to the barn in this like corrugated tar paper. Which is, I don't think a long term solution for a roof preservation. And the owner intends to replace it with, you know, asphalt shingle so it's a it is a change in appearance. And I want to let Tom jump in if he has any other details to share. That was great Ben so for the record Tom radio turn with Bacon Wilson out of Amherst here on behalf of Mr. Chow. Yeah, I mean I think Ben did a great job it was the owner is looking to use the barn for storage and and so it's leaking it's a dilapidated roof it's not the original roof and so he kind of unbeknownst to him just I mean he started to do the work and then had a conversation realized you know we need to go through this process and so he's going through this process. I sent him an email you know I talked to Ben before and he said the commission may want to know what else is. He's going to do I said great question I asked Mr chow I just haven't heard from him I think the time difference has somewhat prevented us from actually connecting on that. You know as I look at it looks like maybe windows need to be replaced maybe some supporting structure on the outside so it looks like there might be additional work. I mean we'd obviously be back before you if if that work was going to be done but you know at this point I think let's just get the roof taken care of because winter is coming and he's got to get a construction super supervisor licensed contractor out there to complete the work and it should be done sooner rather than later and then we can deal with the other stuff when it comes up. Okay and so he's not planning to turn this into residential units. No, no storage. So if you were to turn into residential use then there's a whole other process. I understand. Does anybody have any comments about the materials Robin. Take a note. That was a great barn assessment that then contributed, and there's a lot of really good information in there about the damage that at least in 2014 was recorded. Really great understanding of how the barn was built and then adapted with this milking shed. And I would really encourage the owner to continue to reference that document going forward. Really glad to see this barn which I ironically enough I submitted on behalf of the CPA barn and outbuilding preservation proposal to the CPA community and this one of the photos that I use. So, right up our alley to see that it's not that the roof is being replaced in a positive way to preserve the structure for happy. There's more barns for being done like this. Now, how do you had a comment. Oh, you're on mute heading. Sorry. It's more a question or concern that the actual shingle roof is not going to be too heavy for the structural system that is the current barn I don't think that's likely but it would be really sad if you put a new actual shingle roof on it. The building underneath wouldn't hold the weight so I assume that the contractor will do some kind of evaluation of that. You know it would definitely apply if it was going to be some kind of stone covering. But I think that sounds great. You're removing the old one first right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean you see the pictures of it so if you drive by I mean, candidly the work you see that the work has started and it was more of a stop work let's go through this process and then I know it's great. It's great. I imagine that the lightest risks you can put on there. Yeah, and I'd imagine they showed up from the inside to I bet they I bet they're thinking about that because to your point, why make an investment if it's only going to collapse. Sure. Yeah, okay. So does anyone want to make a motion regarding the application for demolition of the roof. So that we approve the application for demolition of the roof. Second that. Okay. All in favor, I'll take a roll call. Robin. I guess you're in favor. Oh yeah sorry favor. Becky. Yes. Madeline. Yes. Okay and I'm in favor so it passes so. Oh, and Pat, you're here. Pat, are you in favor. You're in unmute Pat. Just nod or shake your head. I don't think she can. Yes. Okay, she's in favor. Great. It passes. So tell him thank you for saving one of our outbuildings in town and we're looking forward to seeing it in stiffy shape. Excellent. I'll let him know. Thanks so much everyone. Ben great job. As always. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Tom. Next thing announcements. You have any. I was just going to say, we didn't take public comment for the public hearing and there is someone in attendance. That was coming later but yeah the public hearing is also actually we're supposed to vote to close the public hearing too so public hearing is open I'm sorry. Anyone in the public be ready to come in. Who's waiting. Yeah. Yeah, there any public comment about the 332 West Street barn application you can click the raise hand button. If so. Yeah, Mr. Steadman I'll allow you to talk here. And Bruce you should be able to unmute now. I'm a neighbor a couple blocks away. I've observed the reconstruct the beginnings of the reconstruction. It's a marvelous thing our only neighbor the question was was and I'm sorry to come in late I was in a different zoom meeting and had to come to this. My only question is whether there's other purposes for the barn once the roof is repaired. Is there any other purposes intended. Well, I did ask, and he said it would just be used for storage. And if he changes his mind he'll have to come back to the town so I think at this point it's just storage. Okay, well it's it's marvelous to see it. I agree with that part of it I did catch that at the end so. Thanks for waiting and then, you know, adding your opinion because it's good to hear neighbors are interested. Yeah, absolutely know it's a beautiful building. Yes, it is. Great. Okay. Is that the last public person for this. Yeah, yeah. So would anyone like to move that we close the public hearing. So moved. Okay, so we close that we close the public hearing. And a second. Okay Robin seconded so all in favor of closing the public hearing we can just do a show of hands. Okay, great. I'm sorry we didn't get past both because she's not on screen. I'm sorry. I'm not on screen at that point so. Okay. I'm on mute too. So we're not really getting her participation until she. Okay. I apologize to everybody. I got hacked today. We know. My iPad and I'm in it's, it's not something I'm used to doing zoom on. So forgive me for all of this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. We're moving on to the public meeting. So you're here in time for that. So then do you have any announcements? I didn't, I did not. Okay, great. Preservation plan outreach plan and survey. So has everyone looked at that online. Let me bring it back up for myself or then you can put it up for everyone. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's the questionnaire. And then there's the list of people that she's going to talk to. And some people. She already has it looks like. I don't think she has. I think, I think she was just making notes of like what she might talk to them about. Other than us. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll just give a little bit of background in the survey. Obviously it's an important part of the preservation plan. Because it's, you know, one of the only ways that. They'll collect information kind of from the broader community. And so, you know, one thing that we are conscious of is trying to. Replicate the 2005 survey. You know, to the extent possible, just so you can kind of do that, you know, direct comparison. So I think it's important to show, you know, how people, what people's thoughts were in, you know, I guess it was actually 2004 that the survey was probably run. And to 2022. So. Some of the. Questions, I think, especially the kind of like the meat of the survey, like four or five, six are. Taken from the. 2005 survey. I think some of these other questions are. Are just kind of like added kind of around the edges, if you will, just to kind of collect more demographic information about people. So, yeah, I think we're kind of looking for feedback about, you know, should we change any questions? Should we add any questions, take away any questions? You know, change the format at all. And just so you know, this will be. It'll be both available via paper and a digital format as well through our like engage Amherst platform. So it'll be. And it's going to all the people she cited. Is it also being sent out generally in the mail or. Yeah. So this will be sent out, not necessarily in the mail, but you know, broadcast to the whole community through the, you know, social media and. People can. On the link if they see it. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed there's no question about outbuildings. It asks if you think your residence is historic. It says nothing about a barn or outbuilding. Is that something we can add? We are trying to bring awareness about buildings. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. People have had their hands up and I'm talking. Becky, I think you were up first. Just on the list of possible outreach. People in organizations. I'd like to suggest that at least places of worship are added. Many of them are. I didn't see them. I might have missed it. And also maybe the colleges that are in town. Oh yeah. Yeah, they own a lot of. They do. They have. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that, but maybe I'm wrong. I might have imagined it. Yeah. You're on here. Yeah, I saw that Becky had her own. Why is that? I don't know. I thought maybe there's a professor at UMass. Shares my name. I don't know if that's the intention. I don't know it might have just been a goof from the historical commission materials. Yeah, those are two really good suggestions. Ben to pass along. Okay. Robin. Thanks Becky. Robin. Do you want to call the survey back then? Yes. So I'm question to, I think that we need to have. And I don't know. Option. For things that I'm guessing there are people who don't know if they live in the National Register District. That's for a district. They might not even, they honestly might not even know. So. Whether they live in Amherst. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know to those questions. I saw her note about outing. If you live in a historic district as a sub question. I think that I would, I think that the, if you go to the next page, this is kind of a related comment. My issue is sort of how things are worded. And I think it's kind of challenging to understand. I would be perfectly happy to volunteer to go through and, and try to clean up some of the language. Yeah. Like it's problematic. It's actually not. Can you go back up to six? Sorry. Yeah. Another area like, you know, I don't know how many people are going to know about the state of Ontario historic resources, which Tula that should be done. Yeah. Anyway. The next page was particularly confusing these. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. District. And I get. And I'm assuming this is like, I'm not sure if this is an old. Survey or, but I would be happy to volunteer to. To go over. Over it to, you know, suggest some wording. So that particularly here, like, so that it's. Yeah. This, this section I feel like, because we're asking people to, you know, vote. And when they think these things are helpful, you know, I just filled out my. Vote by mail ballot. You have the whole big, you know, thing that explains all the particular stuff. And then you have like a three sentence thing that says. You know, voting, yes, would. You know, like, that's kind of what I felt here. Maybe make the definitions easier to. Make the definitions easier to understand and. You know, design district guidelines would. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So. Yeah. My big comments. And like I said, it'd be, I'd be happy to, you know, go through and do. Yeah. Full comments and everything if that's helpful. I'm sure she'd find it very helpful. Yeah. This is Shannon, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll see you tomorrow. You know, I'm working for her, right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think there's some, yeah, there's some. I mean, we're so used to these terms, like, I don't even think about it, but. And somebody makes a lot of sense. I'm not, I, I didn't understand. I kind of understand what an overly district is. And I didn't really understand that particular wording. And I think. You know, we have to really. Make it easy for people who don't have a background in this to say, oh, yeah, that seems like a good idea. Or that's not what I want. So, okay. Great. Madeline. Yeah. Let's see. Can you hear me? I. Let's see. I have some notes. I think. It's good to just consider the purpose of the survey. You know, is this. I think this can be really useful for identifying the communities, preservation goals, and just the direction that we want the preservation plan. To, to go. And not necessarily. To just to kind of boil down to what, what should be implemented in town, but. And I understand that we do want to identify kind of the demographics of the respondents, but I don't. I don't know if we should emphasize. You know, residents and, you know, whether you live in a historic house, like. How much does that matter. To be in a, you know, to be a participant in the historic preservation process. And. Maybe that can go like later in the survey. Rather than be so prominent and upfront. Yeah. Maybe say something like home or apartment building or something so that we make it clear we don't just mean private homes. Yeah, maybe something like that. Right. Well, during. Assume it's a house, but it doesn't have to be right. Right. Yeah, that's true. And then. Can you go to question for. Yeah. Oh yeah, a question for I really like this for identifying the significant aspects of Amherst character. Some of these questions that. We're ranking with one being the most important and then just having to sort of identify. One, two, three, four, five seconds. Maybe. Do you, and this can be a discussion. Maybe we should have. The respondent kind of identified maybe the four most important or. Just something a little bit easier. To. To use here rather than 10. Kind of rankings, although. Maybe that would work. It depends on like. The sort of interface for the survey. And then question five. I don't know if designated is necessary for, so it says, how well do you feel. That are for preserving designated properties. I wonder if that's necessary. Cause it's just older historic fabric. I don't know if that's something we want to protect. Right. Like that. Without, no, yeah, that doesn't, the designation doesn't necessarily matter. Maybe. Yeah. No, what is and isn't anyway. Yeah, I don't. Right. I don't either. And. Let's see. Oh, and then just right. I agree with Robin with question 10, but I don't know if that's necessary. Especially some of the terms are a little. Maybe you need to be reworded or clarify like redevelopment. Mixed use and pedestrian oriented. Maybe that's a little vague. And environmental sensitivity could be. Maybe clarified. And I would also be happy to help. With this, but I think it looks. It looks good. I think it could be really useful. Yeah, the main thing is getting enough participation. Yeah. And I think it's a balance too, because it's a bit more complicated. It is. And the fewer people are going to respond. It feels very comprehensive to me. And as I'm. Looking at it again, I actually think. That a lot of the phrases, a lot of the titles in the survey are. Potential topics we could all be. Writing about, you know, in, in terms of just. Educating our neighbors and friends and colleagues and people in the area and the valley about, you know, what we think this means or why, why we're particularly interested in. You know, determining, you know, how we go through talking about Barnes or whatever the topic is, you know. Okay. Becky, you still had your hand up or is that again? Sorry. It's again. I just wanted to say, I definitely yes to what Robin said. I know when I first read this. And when I am given the questionnaire. You know, you know, you know, in addition to. Number four ranking. Then number six and number seven. Being asked to do that after number four. You lost me. My eyes were glazed. I really wouldn't. That's when I quit. Stuff like this. You know, you know, I think you're right, Madeline. If we want lots of participation. And maybe it'd be easier if instead of ranking, which I also find hard too, because you have to go over and over and over it to come up with your numbers. Yes or no. Important. Yes. No, maybe. Or something like that. Be faster and easier for people. Or she's almost like the five most important here. Just. Yeah, check the ones that you think are the most important. Yeah, something like that. I think like the ranking each thing, you know, more important, you know, less important, whatever neutral. You know, that might be, that might be more useful. So that you don't have to think about all of them and. Yeah, each one could have a cross room at boxes. Very important, important, not so important, not important or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. I think that would be the best way to. To handle it because that will develop a ranking. Based on people's feelings without them having to sit there and think about themselves. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. I will say that all of you. Right. Asking the public to rank things by order is going to be as Becky said, they're going to glaze over and they're not going to. But if you have a box that it's important. Less important. Don't know. Then at least it will. They will get ranked. So across this like that. Yeah, great. Great. Great. Great. All really good suggestions. Thank you everyone for reading it so carefully. You've covered all the things that I had thought about. And some I didn't. So great. Oh, just one more thing. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Just number of question 14. I think is just a really important question. I think that's really great to include here and what groups, areas. Maybe underrepresented and maybe other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think Becky's brought up. Yeah. Maybe move that closer to the top in case people do run out of steam. So I'm going to stage Shannon tomorrow. And then I can talk to her and then Madeline, if you and I would want to connect about, you know, maybe I could pull this into a work document and. Do some review on it and move things around and. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have one really minor issue, but it's important to me. I, you know, we're all asked to complete questionnaire. Yeah. And if I get one, and it says this will take you 10 minutes. I am so much more inclined to spend 10 minutes. Then the unknown. Yeah. 20 minutes later, I'm still, you know, in the middle of it. So I think it would be helpful. To just say how long it's going to take. Yeah. Yeah. I know with the, in the digital version, you can do like a status bar on the bottom. So it shows you how much longer you have. Yes. Yeah. For the paper version, we can just say, you know, The paper version, you see how many pages. Yeah. Yeah. But that's a good point. Becky, if you can gauge, you're more willing to undertake it. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Great. Well, thanks for passing along the information. To Shannon. All of you. And for offering to work on. Clarification. I think it's going to be a really good tool. Yeah. Yeah. And I think kind of I echo what Madeline said about kind of. Just keeping in mind what the purpose of this is. Like, do we. Do we really? Yeah. Like just. I had written to Shannon to like, you know, to what extent are people really going to know about like, you know, the scenic roads and in town or like, you know, I don't know, some of this other like really specific stuff. And, you know, are we asking too much of people to like really identify all these specific tools or is it really about. Just identifying broader trends about, you know, what is important for you in preservation? Like, you know, such as the scenic views and stuff like that. Or. So I, I'm keeping that in mind as well. I think it's a good survey. But I might work with Shannon just to clean up. Yeah. Like Robin and other said, but the wording and just making it a little bit more. Friendly, I guess for the average. Just remember that a lot of people who live in town, don't only see this as. You know, they don't only look at a survey like this as their house and their street and their town. Also aware that we're a tourist destination and we're trying, we bring in all this. And their parents. And I think most people have a broader sense of, you know, the way embers works. I'm hoping. And I had one more thing too in the process of, and this made me think about it. It's important to be able to collect the data. From the survey. So they should be designed in a way that it's easy. I mean, digitally, that's one easy way. But if we're going to do paper, which we probably need to do, for some folks, they have to design it so that it can be looked at and then compiled easily. So. Yeah. So having too many different kinds of rankings and stuffs makes it hard to grab the data. Yeah. I mean, we could even put it together. As a. In a way, we can put it together. In a form for data entry is it's going to have to be transferred to data. So we could design it as a data entry form and people would fill in boxes. Check boxes. I did a survey this summer for historical commissions in Berkshire County. You do. I don't know what platform the town uses, but I know that when you do a Google form survey, it's pretty easy to just basically just print out, you know, in the format that you've written it in and then straight forward. So you design the digital and then the paper kind of comes from the digital to mirror it. Good. Okay. Well, you can talk to Shannon about that too. Well, yeah. Well, actually, I think I have to take the band because if the town uses a different platform, we'll figure it out. Yeah. Well, it's nice to have an inside. It's nice to have an inside line here with you. Good. Okay. I think we've come to some good ideas. Plan. So was there any public comment on this? Do you think, is there anybody waiting to talk about this? No, no, and not even held us here. So, Oh, nothing else either. Okay. There's one anticipated item I wanted to bring up. I'm sorry. I think most of you will not. But you may have heard. Jane Wald received a letter yesterday because the person who sent it thought she was still chair. So she forwarded it to me and we talked about it today. It concerns the library renovation. And it comes from. Sarah McKee who is a former director of the library who has been opposed to the renovation. She has been trying to stop it. Well, as long as I've been on the commission. And she has been sending letters to the Massachusetts historical commission. To protest that some of the laws are being broken by Amherst and the library by not. Supplying a certain, certain kinds of information that are required. For the MHC to have and it's, she is a former attorney or she is an attorney and she believes there's a breach of contract and that. The state should money back that's been offered. This has been going on a long time. The plan. For the library has not fully gelled yet. And so actually. It's been too early to actually. Convey that information. But her, the, the. The issue she hinges everything on is that it's supposed to be done in a timely manner. And it's been six years, partly because of COVID. Partly because her group. Made. The. Town council take a revote on this. So a lot of things have slowed it down. But it's true that it's been that long. However. We are one of many recipients. This. This letter was copied to the governor. The senator representative. Or the trustees, us, the town manager, the library director, the finance director, and then the architects and design firms. And so. Everybody has gotten it, but this is, we used to get thick packets from them. We've seen this for a long time. And we just have always. We have never responded because we just felt that the town and the library were moving along appropriately. And that this wasn't an issue. Jane and I talked today about. The fact that really it's still the case. We've been talking about this for a long time. We've been talking about this for a long time. We've been talking about this for a long time. Well, many, many times just wait until it's actually ready. And we're getting closer. But. We are the. Holders. Of the preservation restriction. So we have a particular obligation to. Make sure that the preservation restriction is upheld. And for that reason. So. I think we, we, we, we have to work with. Paul Backelman and, and the. Awesome Saret, the chair of the library board. And Sharon, the director of the library about this, so that we were all on the same page. And to make sure they were doing their best. But it's been a few years. So I'm going to talk to them all again. And we were thinking that we would. So, you know, not with dates, but just a sort of. Timeline of events that will have to happen. And at what point in that this material will be provided as required by the MHC. But I'm not going to respond at this point yet. We're going to wait a little and I'm going to work on this and then talk to the others and see, you know, I think we all need to know that this is going on, even though ultimately. I'll be the one who responds if we respond. Yes. Robin. Thank you for. Giving that review. I remember reading something. I think it was in the image. In the awhile back, but heading back to the next slide. I think we all need to know that this is going on, even though ultimately. I'll be the one who responds if we respond. Yes. Robin. Thank you for. Giving that review. I think that was something I think it was in the image in the awhile back that heavy head. Quite about to me, which, you know, it was the same. The same basic message. I also had conversations with Jane about it. You know, I worked in community development where we had this event project of vacation forms. And. I, I guess my question is like this is such. It's. How do I want to say this? There's such a. Choose moments very carefully. There's such a level of concern. From these communications. That I feel. If it is misplaced. You know, the kind of repetitive nature of it. It's a little bit frustrating to me that there is not. Some sort of calm. I wouldn't even call it a rebuttal, but it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. To say. These are valid concerns. Here's everything that's happening. We're doing everything that's required. The MHC is not. You know, those, those kinds of farms are so that, you know, you can't let something, you know, go happen over there. You know, that process is about. Things not getting by them. There's so many eyes on this project. So there's a constant dialogue back and forth. And I think that's my, you know, I can feel blood pressure rising. That's my frustration. When I hear this kind of continued to be. Put out there in the public with, you know, people that I know who may not understand that what's happening. Isn't actually in violation of anything. And so that's what. I would say is that, you know, is there an appropriate point? You know, there's this question of sort of like. Is something that's unfounded, not worth responding to, because it just stands. The flames or is there a point where it would be appropriate to just. Lay out the facts of the matter that, you know, if people are hearing this, this shouldn't be concerned because. You know, everyone is communicating with everyone else. Everything is above board. You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, it's a normal part of the process. You don't submit a project notification form until you have, until you could, like you said, you have your project set so that it can be reviewed. You're not going to. Waste staff time reviewing projects over and over again. States and the letter are abuses and. Problems with the design have changed. The thing that we saw about what they planned to do is what we had. So. I think we should wait though, until we do have sort of a general agreement among. All these various stakeholders that this was sent to, I mean, locally, and then we can decide whether we do it publicly or whether, you know, one of these people says something, but I, at the moment, I don't want to start a dialogue because I think as you say it will, it will escalate. Absolutely. I wouldn't want to start a dialogue. I think it is really important to have a clear. Common measures response. Because, you know, I find it frustrating that there isn't a counter voice to say, you know, these people are making. Are the, this group is concerned about. Legitimately concerned about a bunch of things that are part of this process and we're here to assure you. That were. Once we get further into this, it's just been. And that whole thing will be real. And I think now we're finally getting back on the arm-making progress, the design. And as it gets further along, they can start telling the public, yes, things are really long. Here we are and everything's fine, you know? Right, right. But yeah, I mean, even with delays, there is a process, and I'm sure the language is, you know, there's not a time deadline and there are all sorts of processes that go on behind the scenes that nobody knows about. Yeah, I would welcome the measured response. I'm gonna work with people when I get back in November. So Becky? Yeah, I just, I am certain that everything's been done the way it ought to be, but I'm wondering, do we need to consult with the town's attorney? And the town's attorney. Oh no, I don't think we need to. I'm sorry, my cat's sitting on the keyboard. No, I think that if anybody, it would be Paul Backelman. You know, and I would leave, I would just sort of coordinate with that effort. I know that we have a particular role because of the preservation restriction, which is, sorry, my cat just decided to knock everything over. But I think that can be rolled in with what's going on with the other people in town. Ben, if you have a disagreement, or you want to- No, no disagreement. I was just gonna add that, you know, they were prepared to, the architects were prepared to present their, you know, design drawings to us in August and then when they realized all the prices have increased, they kind of went back to the drawing board and now, you know, that we've rescheduled at three times now and I think, you know, last I heard they're gonna come in January, so. Yeah, those are kind of the COVID place. You know, I think at that point, you know, when we were preparing, yeah, yeah, when we were preparing for them to come in August, part of the conversation was like, you know, what you submit to us, you know, submit, you know, they were expecting to submit it to MHC at the same time just so everyone was reviewing the same documents. And then, you know, we got derailed a little bit with the cost increases. So I, you know, I expect that they will submit to MHC what they submit to us. And for that matter too, a lot of this project is also banking on them getting historic tax credits, which I actually don't know that much about. Maybe Robin does, or Madeline, but I know that it's a very lengthy review process that involves a high level scrutiny as well. So I have full faith, there'll be a lot of eyes on this project, so. I can't find my raise hand button on this side. But I have, I'm going back to what Becky just suggested, only with the idea of the question that as the historical commission who does hold the preservation commitment and oversight, whether or not our response to all of that needs to have a separate line, going along with the town and everybody else, but whether or not, because of our special status relative to the library, whether there needs to be recognition and response related to that. Well, I'll ask about that when I'm talking to the other stakeholders. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Okay, anybody else? That was just an unanticipated item in yesterday, but I did let you all know that I'm going to be working on it a little bit. I would just add two other unanticipated items. One is I was preparing to put out another RFP for the more headstone restoration work at West Cemetery, so that'll probably we'll get someone under contract, maybe by January or something, 23, and then they'll start in the spring. And then, oh yeah, similarly, that we have someone to replace the fence at West Cemetery if it's Gerald fence over in Florence. And yeah, that'll probably happen in the spring as well. And then my other unanticipated item, oh, it's just kind of an update about the CPA projects. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had thought everything was due September 30th, but the projects have not been made public yet. So I was thinking we could review them at this meeting, but I didn't have access to all the application materials yet. But I think our next meeting is November 9th. And I think that would be an opportunity to review the projects at that point. Yeah, and Ben and I talked about the fact that it's not required that we prioritize and come up with amounts for each application. We've just sort of done that in the past and that it might turn out because we're gonna be looking at them a little later to be equally useful to simply write a support letter where we could talk about all at once, but maybe just say one thing is particularly crucial or we're very supportive or whatever, but without actually ranking and suggesting that we think it should be capped at this amount or that sort of thing. So it's a little less work. And maybe I don't know you two of you have been on CPA, whether that would be equally useful to having us go through that process. I think that sounds great, actually. I think it sounds much more clear. But that's because I'm a words person, not a numbers person. And I can't think in numbers, you know, I can't. I mean, I can see the difference between a five and a one. Yeah, but it just doesn't compute when we're looking at things that have value added to them in the way that CPA applications tend to. Yeah, I love that idea, Jan. Great, Robin. I'm just saying the ranking issue, I mean, there are, there is a lot of discussion because we never know how much money is we're gonna have and how much money is gonna be asked for. And so there really is a necessity of knowing like, okay, which one really has to, I mean, if everything's equal, we can say, you know what, everything's equal. But if we feel like, you know, something needs to come before something else, if it's a question of when push comes to show. Oh, we can say that in the letter, yeah. I mean, we did use to know, we used to be able to calculate pretty closely what we were gonna get. And we went in and we fine-tuned each application's amount and everything to fit that. But, you know, we used to have three and four-hour meetings on just that, like two of them. Yeah, I don't think fine-tuning the cost. I mean, the cost for what the applicants bring forward I can't remember why we adjusted the amounts before. Sometimes that happens in the CPA meetings, but I think just getting it, you know, it's pretty easy to say, okay, we like all of these, which, you know, which feels like the most important. Yeah, that question will come up, you know, and I'll be there having to say which one. Yeah, I mean, I think we can kind of state our letter generally and send our rep maybe with more detail. Okay, that's fine, that's fine. I mean, I don't think it will take much, I think they'll be what, you know. I mean, look at this and we're gonna have all these, the ones that have been shown to us so far, they're all excellent. We haven't seen the final thing yet. They're all very necessary and they're all way over what we're able to afford. So, you know, I would rather let the CPA committee worry about the details of funding than us trying to. I think the funding is, yes, I think it's the question of priority is a different than funding, yeah. But the other reason not to look at them tonight is because we don't have the finished packets yet and I didn't want to base it on what these people had come to us and asked advice about and then use that to measure their proposal. I want to see the finished product because I'm sure they have more information now. Yeah, and if there's a need for like a site visit for any of them, I mean, I know we've, I was thinking even those paintings at the Strong House, like I have no idea what those paintings look like. It might be helpful. Well, if I'm supposed to write a letter of support, I'll mess it up as a historian. Yeah, or, you know, I think, you know, that maybe the churches or something like that. Maybe, yeah, we could. Well, let us know when we can plan those. Yeah. Then, yeah. OK, great. Anything else? No, I got the barn, the barn, outbuilding proposals in there. Yes. Thanks, Robin. Thank you, Robin. I guess everybody doesn't know that I worked with, well, she came and talked to us. Yeah. Oh, that's right, yep. I just forgot her name. Susanna, right? Susanna, thank you. Mosquat who came and talked to us about the idea for the stained glass tour. Robin pointed her towards a cultural council and we did put together an application and turn it in. So we're hoping, hoping on that, I hope they're, you know, they don't offer much, but I think they probably aren't as inundated as CPA is. So that's a great idea. Thank you guys. Yeah, and we need to do more of these walks. So I'll probably be coming back to you after I'm off the off the commission. So we're a cultural council. Yeah, but I'll be asking you if you're interested in these. I'll be showing you stuff. So because I'll ask for your sponsorship. If I get it right. OK, do we have a date? I think we do have a date for next. Number seven, I think. Well, right. Why that's it's a night. The night it's a Wednesday. All right. Is that what everyone has to all? Yeah. Yes, the ninth. Sorry. OK, great. So is that still good for all? I know we are working around Thanksgiving and some people being away. And so that was perfect. That's right. The day before the first CPI meeting. Yeah. OK, great. Good. OK, so we can give you our general letter and our specific comments. OK, well, would anybody like to move to adjourn the meeting less than an hour in? I move. I guess I'm back. Were you seconding that? Well, this is historic. This is a 54 minute meeting. Just chalking one up there. I know we didn't have much on the agenda, but nevertheless, it's always good. Well, I'm flying away tomorrow, but I will be back in November and we'll continue on. Have fun. Have fun. Six travels. Thank you. Take care, everyone. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye.