 Can you hear me? You can hear me. Great. Excellent. Well, we're here. Finally the day has come. It's a happy day. Good evening to everybody and welcome to the CSIS America's Program. And today we are so very lucky to be hosting Grenada's Prime Minister, Dr. the Right Honorable, Keith Mitchell. And it's a special day also because it's a statesman forum, which is an event that we have. They're very special events that we host here for Prime Ministers and people only of the level of the Prime Minister today. I want to recognize Grenada's Ambassador to the United States, Angus Friday, and the Embassy of Grenada as well here in Washington, who have worked tirelessly with us as we plan tonight's event. Ambassador Friday, it's been a true pleasure to work with you and with your staff. As you all know, we will be talking about sustainability and competitiveness in the Western Hemisphere today. And in particular the role of the Caribbean nations in doing that. I'm particularly happy about today's event given that here in Washington we tend to talk about some countries over and over again from the region and it's usually when there's a crisis or a problem. Today we're talking about a part of the region of the Caribbean that is not mentioned as much as it should be in Washington policy circles, though it offers countless opportunities. Let me talk about some of those. The global market for renewable energy and sustainable industries is valued somewhere in the range of $6 trillion and it's a market of some 4 billion consumers. As Secretary Kerry noted in his remarks at the OAS last year, harnessing that market could not be more important if we hope to leave behind a planet that is clean and sustainable. The Americas are more important places like Brazil, Mexico or the United States. And natural disasters rising both in frequency and in severity threaten not just the Caribbean's economic well-being but it's very survival. But the end for alternatives or the need for alternatives to the energy our hemisphere is already so good at producing has perhaps never been more pressing for another reason as well. The recent instability in places like Venezuela and the implications that could have for the region so dependent on Venezuela's career. He has served as Grenada's permanent representative in the United Nations as a senior international climate policy specialist at the World Bank and as chairman of the Alliance of Small Island States. Before his career in diplomacy, Ambassador Friday held leadership positions in the public and private sectors in London, St. George in St. George largely focusing on attracting investment for economic and technology development. I'm happy to call him a friend and a colleague and I want to thank him for being here with us here today. Just a short note before we begin, this is a webcasted event. This is live. And to give you some logistics for what's going to be happening today after my remarks the Ambassador will be introducing the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister then will give his remarks. Following his remarks we'll move on to the second portion of today's programming. I'm very excited about this panel which includes Sir Kay Dwight Venner, Governor of the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank. His Excellency Albert Ramdine, Assistant Secretary General of the OAS, Ambassador Carlos Pasqual who is the Special Envoy for International Energy Affairs at the State Department and Todd Johnson or Dr. Todd Johnson. Thank you, thank you, thank you Carl. Can you all hear me okay? Listen, it's really a great pleasure to be here this afternoon and to see some of you building a knowledge economy. It's about building health and wellness and of course what better example can we have than a Prime Minister who embodies what it means to be young and full of vim, vigor and vitality. So with that introduction ladies and gentlemen I'd like to call upon the Honourable Prime Minister to make his remarks and use this opportunity to once again welcome our panelists. Delighted that you can make it. I also want to mention in the crowd here President Jose Maria Figueres and Maya who's with him from the Carbon War Room. The Prime Minister will be saying a few words about that and a partnership. And finally the very issue that we're here to talk about today is one which also touches upon what we do for our hemisphere and indeed we have with us Ambassador Hubert Charles who is leading that discussion with Carrie Combs. So without any further ado Prime Minister. Ladies and gentlemen, Prime Minister Nathan. Thank you. His Excellency his Ambassador to Washington and the Organization of American States. Distinguished Excellencies who are here with us. Distinguished colleagues representatives from the U.S. State Department. Members of the diplomatic community and developmental community as a whole. My dear sisters and brothers from the Caribbean and Latin America fellow Canadians, friends all. I just wish to say to you that I have been at so many meetings today. If you find me sounding a bit tired or surprised. At the last meeting I went I said the last time I remember like having to go to so many meetings in one day like go into a classroom when I was at university from class to class but it was very interesting indeed and therefore I see this as a conclusion of a very successful these activities in Washington. In my view my dear sisters and brothers we meet here today at a very special time in the history of our international community. It is a time when the views of small countries like my own are given prominence on a grave matter of global proportions. In the context of climate change the vulnerability of small island states like Grenada combined with a deep concern by the international partners have conspired to create a level playing field for engagement and results. The climate crisis we believe creates a unique opportunity for islands and the region and indeed for growth and prosperity in the entire hemisphere. It is said that whenever there are problems existing anywhere there are potential opportunities and therefore we see this whole issue in this particular context. Therefore my key messages today as follows one Grenada is embarking on an exciting trajectory of sustainable development to spur growth and jobs while lowering our electricity costs or sustainable pathway encompasses the green economy the blue economy and the knowledge economy these incorporate energy services, botique tourism, marine tourism and services and deep sea resources international education, medical services and wellness and sports. Two external factors such as U.S. monetary policy and policies and lower growth prospects for China are leading to low growth expectations for the region. Three low growth can undermine social cohesion in the hemisphere and therefore new and improved OS cannot afford to ignore this factor. Four the region needs to be more proactive in a stimulating growth this means integrating markets improving institutions investing in education and promoting innovation especially in sustainable industries. Fifthly the six trillion dollar market for a new energy is a good starting point and an unprecedented strategic response may be needed to harness this. Sixthly given the new vision in process for the OS it is an opportune time in my view to ensure that the OS is a strategic role in safeguarding growth and inclusion. And lastly, Grenada is moving ahead with a bold agenda and we welcome the opportunity to work with the hemispheric partners and the private sector who share our vision. Let me begin therefore by saying this, this year Grenada celebrates its 40th year of independence under the theme, uniting all people restoring hope for brighter tomorrow uniting all people. It is my view that over the 30 odias of my political involvement in our country, one of the key factors that inhibited growth and development in a true sense has been the level of division in our society as election comes and election goes the division continues unabated. The people of Grenada recognizing this listen to the soundness of our party in the last election campaign. When we promise them that it's one major issue that we certainly will confront among many others will be uniting the people of our country regardless of the political religious or other persuasions. Our people believe this and they voted overwhelmingly for the new national party even at the expense of providing us with no opposition in the parliament of the country. It means therefore friends that the message was very clear that we want to see a change, we want to see true development through the length and breadth of the trial and state it is in this context that despite having the absolute majority in the House of Parliament in Low House that we have attempted so far in the last year to govern our country by including every single person or group who are demonstrating the willingness to use the platform given to unite and build our country. While the challenges continue to be in the sense of the word I'm convinced that this process is paying tremendous dividend so that today while we embark on quite a courageous and as the IMF said ambitious homegrown program which requires tremendous sacrifices in the part of all concern which normally would scare almost any politician I hasten to tell you today that I've never seen a more united approach to development through the length and breadth of our country so that all our social partners are at the table. The churches the non-governmental community, the trade union movement and the business community and government have been meeting consistently and sharing their views on the way forward. I hasten to say in 30 years of my political activities in Grenada I have never seen this and it all goes well for the future of our country. In recent times friends the international crisis has had serious negative effect on our economy. The external shock reversed the earlier efforts to build back better following the devastating impacts of Hurricane Ivan and MLE which damaged our country to the extent of GDP. You just think of what 200% of GDP means to your country. That is what occurred. Imagine coming after the 911 shocks which affected our tourism sector and by implication our economy as a whole then you had Hurricane Ivan and MLE literally flattening the entire country and then not long after that in 2008 when you started building back the international and financial crisis hit us again. You could imagine what that means for the entire country of Grenada Caracol and Martinique. Environmental shocks aside my dear friends in the aftermath of the international financial crisis the Grenadian people have once again given me a mandate and a team that I lead to restore hope and to build back a strong and resilient economy. This is why I'm here in Washington this week. My team and I are meeting with the World Bank the IMF and international partners who are keen from what we have seen so far to be part of Grenada's growth story. Let me see from the outset that Grenada is grateful for the support of the World Bank and the IMF on our international relations at all levels. Our homegrown program for structural adjustment fiscal sustainability was designed by the Grenadian people for the Grenadian people. To get to this point the government has spared no effort in consulting with our social partners or unions our churches or civil society and across the political spectrum to find a formula for austerity and transformational growth that works for all poor people. We have asked our people to make significant sacrifices at a very difficult time and that is why unity across our country has been so important and as I've said to you before I'm heartened by what I'm seeing. My view becomes important for organizations like the OS to understand their role in the process like what we have begun and Grenada to ensure that the organization can be seen as relevant in these times. From Grenada's perspective, security, democracy and human rights will be severely undermined if the hemisphere does not offer hope, development, growth and jobs to its young people. Growth that guarantees shared prosperity in my view is essential for safeguarding the OS institutional pillars. Growth can be stimulated by one, integration of our markets and the region. Two, innovation to build a globally competitive private sector adequate public sector investment in education especially in areas such as engineering and institutions and the rule of law so that for example contracts can be adequately enforced. Climate change and sustainable development. Now of you climate change erodes the natural capital base for future generations. This is problematic in this hemisphere, products and services from our natural capital base contribute to significant sectors of our economies. In the case of Grenada for example our tourism relies on a coast or coastal and marine resources but coral reefs are threatened by sea temperature rise. In 2005 for example due to high sea surface temperatures some 30% of the Caribbean coral reefs were destroyed and damaged by coral bleaching. This therefore undermines tourism jobs and food security. For all of these reasons Grenada is taking a more active role in oceans agenda and the development of the blue economy. Last year I co-chaired a regional oceans meeting with Sir Richard Branson and Grenada since committed 20% of marine area to conservation. This includes a marine protected area right in the middle of my constituency. Those of you who know about the millennia park. It's almost literally a whirling on area at this time. In a couple of weeks time Grenada would also participate in the Global Ocean Action Summit in the area where it is a serious partner. The key components of Grenada's blue economy include fisheries, coastal boutique tourism or marine and yacht and sector and dive tourism. Moreover Grenada has a rich marine genetic biodiversity that inhabits this hemisphere's most active submarine volcano located in Grenada's waters or deep sea resources are part of this picture. But my friends all of these efforts will among to zero if climate change is not abated and if it's not unchecked climate change could increase ocean acidity to the point where major ecosystem begin to collapse. This possibility impacts heavily on food security and therefore must be seen as alarming. Therefore Grenada is taking a more active role in international efforts to reduce carbon emissions by greening its energy sector. There are pragmatic reasons for Grenada's positions. Don't know if many of you know but the facts are electricity prices in the Caribbean range from 35 cents to 65 cents US per kilowatt hour. In Grenada it's 40 cents US cents per kilowatt hour. This is more than double the rate paid in high income countries. These high prices make islands like Grenada less competitive in manufacturing and tourism. These prices also are a major strain on households, hotels and businesses. The fact is as I stand here with you today we have many of our households in Grenada particularly in the rural part of our country where people are unable to keep their electricity and they simply cannot pay for it. My sisters and brothers, if you picture this this is not just about small businesses and economy and hotels and so on. It is about the future of our society. A young child whose parents is not able to pay for electricity is deprived of the opportunity to be on the information highway. And you picture what that means for poverty and the way of life for one who is not able to access the information highway. So the price of electricity must not be seen as just an economic issue. It must be seen as affecting the entire life of the people of our country. My government therefore is absolutely committed to lowering electricity prices and we are aiming for an energy mix of 50% at least renewable energy by 30, 30 sorry. Let me therefore be clear with the question of the electricity situation in our country we are not advocating as some would want us to be misunderstood for whatever reasons. We are not interested as a government in attempting to own and manage the electricity services in our country because we simply do not have the cash to buy the present electricity company which has been offered for sale at this time. We are therefore seeking private sector partners to help in doing this. Private sector partners who understand the necessity for lower electricity costs who understand the necessity to liberalize energy production in our country and who would not want to keep this monopolistic arrangement given by the previous government to have complete control over all forms of energy generation where they are profitarily enormously so from the generation of electricity through diesel knowledge and innovation as part of sustainability. Grenada is building a green economy as I mentioned a blue economy and a knowledge economy almost 30% of Grenada's GDPs attributed to the St. George's University now as you know is well known internationally. A university that is focused mainly on medicine. This university was inaugurated over 30 years ago we see this as a hub of our knowledge. One of the key developments in this is a medical park which we are looking at to provide medical health services to an international clientele so Grenada will not only be sustainable but will envisage a culture of wellness and vitality believe it or not friends thanks to a 400 meter sprinter Kirani James you know Grenada has the highest number of Olympic gold medals for capital think about this is a serious piece of statistics and we see an interesting trend towards health wellness and vitality among our people. The overview as we know prevention is the best health policy and so we intend to make the most of this with the kind of help of the Chinese government we are building a new athletic stadium and ultimately let's see sports built around this. I have been champion in this area whether it's cricket has been given the responsibility and held the prime minister of subcommittee and cricket in the region nor been asked by Conker Kaaf to lead the inauguration of to help in the inauguration of the Caribbean professional league and also been asked to be part of the now ongoing Caribbean cricket 320 competition with the athletic stadium with Lewis Hamilton's agreement to be part of the process of development of even a sub community in Grenada with Steve McQueen as you know who is just the asker for this special movie who just came to Grenada and offered the services to help build our tourism product we are going to be using all opportunity to build on what we have the holistic development of Grenada Caracol and P.T. Martin. My friends, Grenada is celebrating its 40th year of independence with a theme as I said before your 19 or people restoring hope for brighter tomorrow. This brighter tomorrow is a new wave of wealth creation and poverty alleviation from sustainable industries Grenada would do better if the entire hemisphere were to become a multi country cluster for sustainable industries given the extensive endowment of natural capital in our hemisphere as was said before the US Secretary of State underscore this when he visited the US on 18th of November last year and referred to the 6 trillion dollar opportunity for new energy the hemisphere as a whole needs to harness this opportunity as one of the near term solutions to overcome its low growth that could undermine social cohesion but this requires an unprecedented strategic response within the hemisphere who should provide that impetus in all of you a new and reinvigorated OAS would see unemployment low growth and low levels of education as threats to social cohesion and security while it could rely on existing development institutions to do their part the OAS should not abdicate the responsibility for integral development it must provide leadership in ensuring that the hemisphere's human capital is educated to the extent that innovation competitiveness and growth can be delivered it must find ways to advance the integration agenda so that the region can keep pace with expanding Asian markets and it should play a catalytic role and use its convenient power to galvanize political will towards strategic imperatives such as green energy with a view to harness in the 6 million dollar trillion market for the benefit of the peoples of this hemisphere in closing therefore I welcome the work done by led by Ambassador Hubert Charles and also the thought leadership and the program instituted by Sherry Tross and our team at SIDI finally the new and improved OAS cannot be an organization seeking escape from a future that we fare there must be an organization that unites us around the future that we can embrace a future of growth, happiness and shared prosperity for the generations to come I thank you for this opportunity to speak to you on these important matters, thank you before you leave I just want to thank you sir for your wonderful remarks ambassador for being so generous for picking CSIS to have your prime minister come and speak here it's a real privilege to have you here sir I thought your remarks were incredibly impressive there's one part that I wrote down that I thought was really great which is hope, development, growth and jobs like a noble objective sir so with that I just want to give finality to this first panel we're going to move to the second panel on sustainability and competitiveness in the hemisphere but will you please all join me giving a round of applause to the prime minister so I'm going to ask the panelists to come up why don't you sit here, how are you doing so you've got a good picture of what you're wearing come up, how are you, nice to see you ambassador, sure, one more person where did, yeah, anyone ready now so everybody has everyone's mic you just need to turn that on once your turn you have your microphone on sir, okay next time we'll have trumpets for you, if you could mic him up everybody's mic'd up while their microphones are on so with this we are going to be starting our second panel first of all again I want to thank the prime minister for his remarks and for being here with us today, I think we're going to move on to this panel it's going to be about 45 minutes I'm going to quickly go through the introductions just so everybody is aware of the brain power that we're dealing with here today so I'm thrilled to be joined by this lineup starting with Sir K. Dwight Benner who's the governor of the eastern Caribbean central bank a position that he's held since 1989 Mr. Benner has served as the director of finance and planning in the government of St. Lucia and has published extensively on economic policy, he's a member of the board of directors of the Caribbean Knowledge Learning Network and of the World Bank's commission for growth and development we also have his excellency Albert Remdine who's the assistant secretary general of the OAS, a good friend of mine we've known each other for I think over a decade now you're going to help the OAS, that's right, originally from Suriname Ambassador Remdine has enjoyed a distinguished career in public service serving as ambassador at large and special advisor to the government in Suriname as senior advisor to the minister of trade and industry and as Suriname's permanent representative to the OAS and Ambassador Basquale as well, good friend and special envoy and coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department during his extensive career in public service Ambassador Basquale has held positions, has served as ambassador to Ukraine very timely topic and to Mexico also a friend and last but not least Dr. Todd Johnson who's the lead energy specialist in the Latin American Caribbean region at the World Bank, he's worked on numerous energy related issues at the World Bank including clean energy, development, air pollution, health effects and global climate change, you know rather than taking more time I think we're going to get right to the panelists if I want to start with you Ambassador Remdine if we could open up with just brief comments and we'll go around and then we'll have a, I'll ask a couple questions and then we'll open up for questions from the audience, so without further ado sir Good evening, thank you very much Carl and honorable Prime Minister it's always good to see you and Ambassador Ambassador from the region, I see a lot of other distinguished guests so to all good evening I would hope to start with, I have heard half the speech of the honorable Prime Minister regretfully late because of the traffic but I would hope that every leader in the Americas would be the champion of the OES like you have been sir today, I think the message you have given to reflect on means for us to look at how the OES can position itself, present itself to the hemisphere from with a new perspective, a perspective which is certainly in the direction of the topic of today, sustainable development focusing on integral development, strengthening the partnership in society with the private sector especially with the private sector but also with civil society creating a new dynamic in society, a more safe society, a more prosperous society and those objectives have never changed in the OES 1948 since the Bogota Declaration Charter, those objectives have been there, what have changed, what has changed are circumstances in our societies, now I commend leaders like the Honourable Prime Minister Kit Mitchell for speaking out so frankly about it, of what needs to be done, there is both leadership needed, required in the hemisphere, there's both leadership needed within countries to make those changes and I think one of the changes I'm looking really at within the organization of America States is that relationship with the private sector, the private sector which has been seen as an enemy for a long time by the public sector we see them as partners and in the direction in which we go whereby countries need jobs, not only democracy and human rights and rule of law, but where there is need for jobs, for employment, for sustainable development, for education, working with the private sector is creating a win-win opportunity and this is exactly what we're looking at for the future of the organization of America States, I think a lot of good things have been done over the past 60 years through the organization in many areas, not only in sustainable development, but in education, in energy and several initiatives where we work with the U.S. State Department on some of them to mention, but also with individual countries, so I think we have here a platform for renewal, for reform, but also a new vision which will appeal to the people of the Americas and I think I mentioned it again, more leaders like the honorable Prime Minister to speak out at the OES, but also in meetings like this about what is required, will be the message and the marching orders for the new leadership at the organization of America States. Thank you, anyway it's a great honor to be here. I'll start off kind of with three points and then we can go depending on time, we can kind of go into those points. Prime Minister mentioned this opportunity from threats, etc., and I think one of those issues is in terms of renewable energy and you look at renewable energy and energy efficiency developers around the world and they all drool when they look at the Caribbean and I know it's because you have high energy prices, but it's an incredible driver of projects like that. So a lot of your problems that, I mean you're never going to have as low of prices as Trinidad and Tobago, you're never going to have low of prices as large countries that have hydro and other things like that. So you're almost always going to be saddled with higher electricity prices than other larger places, but still it doesn't mean that they should be as high as they are now. So I think you can both, you can have both. I think the vision that Grenada and Jamaica, etc., have at least set out to go massively towards renewables is it's a reality. I mean we can talk about all the challenges that that means, but it's a reality and it's not because the Caribbean is going to solve the climate change problem by reducing their emissions. You're vulnerable to the climate change impacts. You can be good citizens of the world by reducing your emissions, but that's not why you want to reduce your emissions. It's not why you want to go to renewables and energy efficiency. You want to do that to diversify. You want to get out of high cost oil as much as you can diversify the better local supply. So I think the second issue with there is that renewable energy prices have come down so much we couldn't even imagine ten years ago. We couldn't imagine how much they've come down. Even just two years ago, if you would look at what people had forecast for solar PV, you would be too high. I mean it's been orders of magnitude reductions in those costs and what it means is those costs are now much lower than a utility can produce with oil. Almost half. Half the cost you can do now in distributed systems. So what can you do? You need to finance that and you need regulatory policy that allows it, both for homeowners but also for commercial and industrial users. So again there's a whole array of problems that need to be addressed and many of those are regulatory policy. They're also decoupling the incentive that a utility's revenues is directly tied to sales. It shouldn't be. It should be tied to their performance there should be incentives for them to reduce energy to save energy and conserve and not just through their sales. So anyway there's a range of things that can be done and World Bank I have to say we're not doing a whole lot in OECS countries. We are working in the Caribbean but I think there's a whole range of things. Regulatory investments, studies on what can be done and it's really a new world out there for utilities moving into a place where it used to be if you were a large scale utility it was economies of scale and now it's not. Small scale producers can actually produce electricity cheaper than larger scale. That's definitely true in the Caribbean where you're dependent on oil. So I think I'll leave my initial comments. Thank you. That's very well. Thank you Prime Minister for your motivational introduction to these issues your call to action on climate change. Indeed it was you were a part political leader, part motivator and preacher helping us sort of find the deeper values that we all have to aspire to in the work that we do. Just building on what Todd has said and what Prime Minister laid out in his speech I think it's important that we start out with clarity of the mission and in my mind from those things that you've said that what we're trying to do here is to diversify energy supply in order to reduce the cost of electricity to consumers and to increase the share of clean energy. The two of these need to go together. And indeed that isn't going to solve the climate change problem as Todd said that issue is one that you're going to be you're going to feel the effects of. But at the same time your statements about the importance of oceans and the preservation of oceans indicates to another part of the environmental agenda which is key which is also fundamental to the resource base of the Caribbean. So if we come back to the reality that you laid out an average price for electricity at 35 cents a kilowatt hour, you're paying 47 cents a kilowatt hour. Other places like Dominica are paying 40 cents a kilowatt hour. How do we work together to help address that? And here's I think a fundamental reality we just have to keep in mind if we look at the projections for investment requirements in the Caribbean region from now to 2030. The estimates are on the range of $12 billion. That isn't going to come from the public sector. It's not going to come from development finance institutions like the World Bank or the Inter-American Development Bank. It's too big. And so if we're all going to succeed we have to ask the question how do you use public capital in a way that reduces risk and creates the possibility for private investment in finance? Because if we can't do that we can't succeed. So from that perspective let me sort of outline what some of the issues are that I think have been constraints. First is utilities have to be viable for businesses. And if you've got average losses of 15 to 30 percent you can't succeed in any business in the world if you're losing that much and you can't succeed in the power sector if you're losing that much. So you've got to be able to address that issue. Second issue is how to turn that corner and take advantage of the possibilities that Todd was just laying out of small being profitable. Because in the past we've seen very small markets where the amortization of costs has been very high. And that has made it very expensive to be able to break those costs. The third issue has been the uniqueness of the diversity of regulatory frameworks. A lot of islands, a lot of different places, a lot of different regulatory frameworks. If you're looking to do business and you've got to figure out how to do business in all of them that becomes very difficult to do. Another issue has been the high cost of capital. And if you think about it from the perspective that there has been one central area of business which has been tourism or weather, are you willing to lend into that kind of environment? And so if you go out to the international financial community the answer has been well we're going to lend for very short periods of time and if you have to finance very high and expensive capital investments, short periods of time with relatively high interest rates for renewable investments. Well the cost of the renewables is free right? It's the wind, it's the sun. But the amortization of that capital is very investment, very high. So if you can't drive those capital costs down you can't succeed very well. And finally the other problem that I just want to mention which my friend, President Vietis, was telling me earlier are the legacy industries. Those who have been there in the past and don't want to let go of what they've had and how do you break through. So just a couple of things. On the part of the utilities I don't think we've done as much as we can. The World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank have played some leadership role here. The Dominican Republic is trying some interesting things, particularly through the use of prepaid meters. So you think about it as a cell phone, you pay in advance you get your service. That addresses some of the basic issues of whether or not you actually have losses or you collect. But how do you make that something which is more generally replicated throughout the Caribbean to reduce losses? The issue of interconnections. This is a strategy that we have been pursuing to try to create a wider market. See Mark Lambredi is there who is really pushing on these issues when he was working on the OES. There's some possibilities still. St. Kitt's Nevis, Haiti, Dominican Republic. Others that are just coming out more expensive. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic. We're going to have to see how these play out to actually create viable electrical systems that can bring down costs. Gas. So here the OES is an interesting example in the Dominican Republic where they already have a gas-fired power plant. They're looking at potential interconnections from there into Haiti. The Inter-American Development Bank is seeking to develop a much more innovative model of how to bring gas into hubs and how those hubs can be spread out to other areas. But it's still in the development phase. So these are things that we've got to keep working with. Solar wind. So Jose Maria Figuettis gave me an example earlier of a 20 megawatt investment in the Bahamas. There's an interesting thing that we've got to look at. How are those investments made? And here's a dilemma that one can think about. If you have a hotel that puts in solar for its own power use, you've suddenly taken the principal customer away from the utility and they're generating their own power supply. So you suddenly bankrupted the utility. How do you create the business models that allow this to work?