 excited for those of you listening. Hopefully you can see this live, you can go back and listen to it later. But I've got one of my dear friends, Dr. Mark Minnellicino here. And he is one of my favorite people in the world, not only because he's an awesome skier. And we still have a ski together, Mark, we gotta make that happen, right? Absolutely. I'm pretty sure you could teach me a thing or two about skiing. And you know, it's funny, because I don't have a lot of fear, but I have this feeling if I go with you, you're gonna be like, hey, let's go over here. And I'll be like, are you sure? That looks really steep. But I would I would love to make that happen. We'll have fun for sure. Totally, totally. Well, let me introduce you. Dr. Mark has a new book out. And he is one of the leading experts in functional medicine and heart disease. And we'll talk about his book in just a little bit. He's a director of the menoclinic and Jackson Hole, actually Wilson, Wyoming, right next to Jackson, the ski resort. He has over 35 years of combined health experience completed in medical school at University of Nebraska, and then internal medicine specialty training at Banner Health, Arizona. He's one of the few physicians whose board certified in internal medicine and holistic medicine, as well as board certified in advanced hormone management and anti aging medicine. There's so much more I could say, Dr. Mark, but I'd love to just get right into the discussion about the fun things. What I love to start with is your story. I'd love to hear what got you into medicine and how did you get interested in your path, your current path? Well, it seems like all of us and our friends that are in functional and integrated medicine, there's a reason why they are. And it's usually themselves or someone they cared about regular medicine didn't do well with. But I'm the fourth doctor in my family. And we all believe that there's a holistic way to take care of people by looking at the whole person. And I was lucky enough to work with Dean Ornish when I was in high school and see that you could do lifestyle medicine, exercise, nutrition, stress management. And you did better than having a bypass surgery for heart disease. And that really led me on the path to do the best of medicine, which is internal medicine, and the best of integrative and functional medicine, learn what all the other people in nutrition know that they don't teach us in medical school. So it's been a fun journey. And it's a passion that's deep in me. And it's how I live my every day as well. I love that. And I love you're a great detective, like I like to be too. And we tend to get these cases that are really, really complex and lots of different pieces and moving parts. But do you enjoy that level of complexity and kind of diving in and looking at trying to find root cause? Well, we both had the experience. And I think you're a better detective than I am actually Jill at the at these really complicated cases. But people who come to us as their last resort, Mark Hyman calls it the resort doctors because it's the last resort they've seen 15 people. But no one sat with them for an hour and a half and listened to their story and really dug deep and committed to helping them. Most doctors want one symptom and one cure and it's a prescription and a piece of paper. But it's really getting to know people and look at the whole person. That's the beauty of functional and integrative medicine. Yeah, it really is. I love it's funny because we kind of we go into medical school with that desire to learn root cause and to kind of get to the and then it's plug and play. And granted, we both got a great medical education. I'm so grateful because if there's trauma or if there's, you know, heart attack or stroke, it's we know what to do. And our system really does a great job with these traumatic and acute experience. But when you have someone with diabetes or obesity, the medications don't work. And when I say plug and play, they basically taught us to do what's the ICD nine or 10 or whatever number we're on. And then what's the medication or surgery or procedure that's going to solve that problem. And it just doesn't work that way with these complex layers of illness. And I would love to hear what your thoughts I feel like things are getting so much more complex like the the amount of and I think it's toxic load really, which we can talk about too. But it feels like the ice to get, you know, a sore throat or a person with menopause symptoms or a person with hypothyroid symptoms. And now it's never that simple. It's layers and layers and layers of symptoms. Well, it seems like people are getting sicker. And it may be our environment is sicker too. I do think that it's these layers that you have to peel away like an onion to really get it what's really going on. And you can have 10 people with the same diagnosis, but they have 10 different paths of how they got there. And you have to hear each one story to try to try to unwind it. I have a master's in immunology, and I thought immunology was complicated in 1990s. Oh my gosh, 25 years later, it is so complicated and it's complex. And that kind of brings us to the COVID story that you wanted to talk about today. And yeah, let's stuff it is. And you know, I love that I just learned something new about you. I didn't know you had a master's in immunology. So that is awesome. And it makes sense because I think our immune system is really at the root of almost all the stuff that we see happening in chronic disease. Let's talk about COVID-19. And first of all, I mean, you're in Wyoming, which is a nice place to be these days, because I think is it still like the amount of cases you're seeing is still lower than obviously in some parts of the US? Well, we have a low population. We're 15 to 20,000 people. So that right there does it. But, you know, it brings up a great question. Why are there such different rates of infection and penetrance in all the different cities? Why is Canada and the US so different when they share a common border? Why is Haiti in the Dominican Republic so different on the common border? Iran and Iraq. There's things about this that we just don't really understand yet. And it's it's a complicated story. But what you do is what people need. It's working on the whole person to get healthy to prevent going to the hospital, going to the ICU, needing a ventilator. That's the beauty of functional medicine is they have the tools to help you not need the acute care tools. Yeah. And what are you again? This is still a postulation. I always kind of frame it that way, whether I'm writing blogs or talking to friends and colleagues, because we don't really know all the answers. But do you have any suspicions or thoughts on some of the factors that are driving the incidence as far as risk factors? Any any thoughts on that? Well, you know, we talk about genetics and you and I talk about epigenetics. About your genetics, load the gun, your choices pull the trigger. So you can change your outcome based on the choices you make. And that's a powerful message that you're not genetically doomed to die from COVID. You can't really prevent someone sneezes on you, but you have the power to turn on the good genes and turn off the bad genes to maybe put up your own defense bubble. And it's called your immune system. And there's things you can do to boost it with your sleep, with your nutrition, with exercise, with love. Let's talk about that. Let's kind of just dive into a few of the things you mentioned them. But if people who are listening want to know what can I do? What things do you recommend to your patients? We know I talked to someone today that they told me they get nine hours of sleep, but it's broken up into three sections and they wake up at, they go to sleep at 10, they wake up at 2, they wake up at 5, and then finally wake up at 8. And so they're not getting that deep restorative restful sleep. And one of the questions I ask is, do you dream? Because if you're not having dreams, you're not getting that deep stage 4 REM sleep. And sleep, I think, is probably the biggest medicine and the one that we find so evasive when these stressful times and crises are around us. That stress, lack of sleep, the immune system, it's a real circle that just keeps pushing each other forward. Oh, I totally agree. I see. And, you know, we kind of take it for granted, like, oh, there's so much pressure to get less sleep and get more done and be more productive. But for me, that's my, I have to get my sleep. It's like my secret weapon if I get good sleep. Do you have any tracking devices that you use or recommend to patients for sleep tracking? Anything that you like? Yeah, you know, I'm a big fan of the URA ring. I've used all of them. And, yeah, it's the amount of information and one of the papers I did in med school was on heart rate variability, which it tracks. And it really gives you a good idea of how's your fight or flight system, how's it tracking. But once, you know, the whole idea is once you get information, you can act upon it. So that's what some of the functional medicine tests do, is they give you information you can't get otherwise. To really help you make good decisions. So whatever tracker or whatever device seems to fit you, it's worth looking at. And any insight is good information. Gosh, I feel the same way. And there's free apps if you don't want to spend $300 on the ring. I think, again, I'm holding mine up because it's one of the best investments I've ever made because it does. It looks at activity. It looks at heart rate variability. Two weeks ago, I had, I didn't have COVID, but I had a little tiny infection in my temperature track. I saw, I actually saw that change before I got sick. And so it was really interesting to me that that happens. And you can track it. And it's very, very minute, like point 0.2 of your temperature for three days in a row that goes up. But it's kind of neat to see patterns on that. In fact, I think the manufacturer is working with the government to track data for COVID because I think it predicts on vitals the people who are going to get it. I bet there's, if there would be, if we could collect all the data on all the people who, if they all had rings, I bet we'd see patterns of whether it's decrease heart rate variability, decrease sleep, you know, maybe deep sleep, maybe increased body temperature by half a degree for a couple days prior, probably respiratory rate increasing. It'd be really interesting, wouldn't it? You know, it's interesting you say that. Joe, I've had 11 Olympians as clients. And every one of them told me that they were trained during their training methods to check their heart rate when they first woke up. If ever deviated or was 10 points higher, if your heart rate was 10 beats higher when you woke up that morning, you shouldn't train that day. It was a sign of stress on the body or overtraining. So I do think these bio rhythms have great insight. We just have to know how to look at the pattern. And I think we're getting techniques and tools now that let us do that. That is fascinating. That's, I have an own little personal antidote because I'm always biohacking myself and I run into some interesting things. But I was doing some work with my hypothalamic pituitary axis with peptides. And I had been hypothyroid for years and years and years. And without me knowing it, the peptides reset my hypothalamic pituitary axis. And all of a sudden, I required massively less amount of thyroid. It almost reset my thyroid. But I was still taking the same dose. And I noticed that I was walking on trails. I'd be more short of breath because, of course, that metabolic output would make someone need more oxygen, breathe faster. And then my heart rate, of course, was a little bit higher. And when I finally realized and it went down, I'd look over the months and that tracking showed the heart rate, respiratory rate, all a lot higher until I got normalized in the thyroid. But it was so interesting to me because I didn't even know it until I saw the biomarkers. And I thought, well, there's something going on here. What would metabolically make my heart rate and respiratory rate a little bit higher? Well, thyroid. And, of course, that's what it was. And I should have known better, but it was very interesting to see that. Well, I think the best doctors are kind of mad scientists on themselves. They, for me, before I incorporated a test in my clinic, I'd do it on myself and learn all about it and do it a couple times and and be sure I trust it. So I think, you know, you mentioned peptides. That's a fascinating field. I went through a certification last year and this is the concept of that could be very... Yeah, let's talk a little bit about if you're comfortable. What do you have up your favorites? I can tell you what I'm thinking. I'd love to share between us if you have anything you really like. As an athlete, the BPC-157 has been amazing. It's from the gastric juices and it tends to help tendon ligament and muscle recovery. And that's one thing that I've found has been super helpful for people in my athlete realm. I think all of the peptides have a role if used the right way. I've been shy of growth hormone. I've never prescribed growth hormone myself. I've just never liked everything about it. I know a lot of people take it. They have success with it. I've shied away from it, but I think these other peptides can have the benefit without the risk. I agree 100%. I love that we're always aligned because I have never, maybe once or twice, but rarely extreme rare that I prescribe. Because I agree with you. I think we can suppress the natural production and if we're not careful, all of these things, if you don't know what you're doing, like growth hormone, have a potential for producing rapidly dividing cells, which could lead to cancer. So Dr. Mark and I, I know, are very aware of those. And like we said with peptides, they're really cutting edge and there is starting to be a lot more research, but it's still on the, on the cutting edge. So I'm like you, one I really like for the immune system is thymus and alpha one. I'm a huge fan of that. And that's been helpful for my immune compromised patients or chronic Lyme or mold, especially at this time. So those are some great ones. Anything that has a, a very high benefit with a very, very low risk I'm interested in. Totally. Being open-minded is really healthy. But I like to consider myself an open-minded skeptic. I am open to everything, but I am skeptical of everything. So it has to pass our litmus test and you and I have always been aligned on that. Totally. Cause it's not like we're cavalier. We're very, very careful that there's good science, but we're also not afraid to try something new even if we're the only one in our state or city doing it as long as it has safety data. And I was just benefit risk if it benefits that way the risk and there's decent amount of science behind it. I'm willing to try it. We did talk about IVs, but do you do IVs in your clinic and what are some of the most popular ones for your patients? You know, I was doing IVs 15 years ago and the nutritional Meyers IV was a big hit. We were doing IV Vitamin C as well. I haven't done any for the last couple years. You have to be set up for IVs and currently I'm not. I don't have the nursing staff that I'd like to run the IVs. I think right now with the COVID, the IVs are a huge, huge benefit. Vitamin C, IV, there's nothing like it. You can't get it orally in the amounts that you can. I call it mainstreaming it. You can eat it, but when you mainline it and mainstream it, you just get a cellular absorption you can't compare with any supplement. Yeah, Dr. Levy recently talked about his research and what he was describing was the pathogens or inflammation really happens related to decreased intercellular calcium, I'm sorry, the calcium's high, the magnesium and the vitamin C that are found are low. And so if we can actually modulate that by pushing oral magnesium, IV, vitamin C, and glutathione, you get basically antipathogenic effect on any sort of pathogen and decreased inflammation. And I think the studies that have been used a little bit have been doing about six grams every, I'm sorry, three grams every six hours of the C. So we'll see. I think we're going to get some good data out of this that supports some of the IV nutrition and functional medicine because people don't have other answers. And so finally in hospitals are actually trying it. Yes. You know, at the cell level, one of the first changes with any coronavirus you see is the depletion of vitamin C. It's like the virus just sucks it out of the body. That's why it's always been known to be good for the common cold and other coronavirus. It's interesting, Jill, there was a big push about information on the news about vitamin C and they did these clinical trials in their end process. We haven't heard much about it. And I'm kind of surprised. So it's part of the problem of looking at news sources is whatever is exciting that day. They talk about, but then it's kind of been pushed back. There are some good studies going on and I think we'll get an answer to whether it's a good idea. I do too. And I'm excited that they're, at least at some hospitals, they are actually allowing that because it's such a simple and safe thing. So what are you telling your patients? Because now is a time that we need to decrease stress for support of the immune system. But man, it's stressful. I mean, there's so much stress because patients have lost their jobs or they're stuck at home or they're with family members 24-7 and it's driving them crazy. What's your top three tips on reducing stress or what people could do nowadays with the pandemic? Well, the first thing is love and support. And one of the beauties that's come out of this take a break, and I heard Governor Cuomo New York call it the New York pause. So I've done the Dr. Mendo pause. I love it. But I think all of us have stepped back and said, what's really important? Who do we care about? And I find my conversations with my clients, with my family, with my friends. They're longer. They're deeper. It's not just, hey, how you doing? What do you need for my kids? It's, hey, what did you do today? What are you excited about? Have you heard about this? You know, it's been neat to see people connect. So I think connection is one of the biggest things. And if you had a little bit of depression or a little bit of anxiety, this whole experience has blown both of those out of the water. So I think there's a lot of people vulnerable. And that's my message to everyone listening is do something for someone else. There's nothing more powerful for yourself than giving of yourself to others. So make that call. Make dinner for that older neighbor. Do those things that you haven't had a chance to do to help people. We talked about sleep and rest. Find some type of relaxation technique, whatever works for you. If it's sitting in your backyard and your underwear are great. If it's just laying out a deep breathe, that's fine too, but do something. Get out and move. So Joe, what was the treatment for flu during the 1918 pandemic? Do you know? I don't. Put them outside. Really? That was the only thing they had as medicine was outside fresh air. Wow. And it seemed to help. So you got to get outside if you can. And thank goodness it's coming into spring and summer. So we're able to do that. But get out and move the body, letting the body rest at night. And then it's what you're eating. You know, the fact that it's a pandemic and we haven't addressed fast food in this country and sugar in this country and processed foods is really kind of criminal, I think. We really should have, just as we did a stay at home order, we should have had a stay away order for some of those. Yes. I could agree more. But I think those are the three easy things is watch what you put in, watch what you push out and take some time for yourself and then give of yourself to your family, to your friends, to your neighbor. That is awesome advice Mark. And because I know we both come from service and love and try to, you know, teach and model for patients, but I remember just this weekend I had a really good friend who offered to make me dinner and she brought organic broccoli with the garlic and then wild salmon with capers and dill. I mean, it was so delicious. And I literally, I don't know when the last person someone has just cooked for me. And it almost made me cry. I think it was like, that is such a loving, precious gift. And it was like two nights of dinner and it was just so beautiful and she didn't have to do that. But I really realized even for myself what an amazing gift that is of service to do that for somebody. So I love that advice. You know, I heard the greatest story today. My operations officer, Aaron, delivered some supplements to a couple in their 80s that lived close to him a couple of days ago and he brought them dinner. He made dinner for them and brought them. And she was so touched. She's 86. I think he's 88. They're afraid to leave the house. And he made them a dinner and brought to him when he did his supplement delivery for him. Brought him some vitamin C and some vitamin D and some zinc. And, you know, what a nice gesture just totally on his own. And I had no idea until she called me and asked me for his address to send him a thank you card. So it was random. Random acts of kindness are just, it's beautiful to hear that. Mark, that's a great employee. I mean, and that just shows the kind of people you attract. That's really, really neat, especially because it wasn't like hey, boss, guess what I did? He didn't even tell you. That's amazing. Wow. Well, I want to hear in our last maybe 10 minutes or so. I want to hear a little bit about your book. I want everybody to know a little bit about that and where they can get the copy. Tell us a little bit about that. So it's the hard solution for women. And we just haven't done women right in medicine, particularly in heart disease. I feel we can do such a better job. Two of the three of our female friends are going to die of heart disease. And that's something that is preventable. If you have it, it's reversible. If you have a risk for it, it's preventable. But what the book really is, is a functional medicine manifesto of how to take care of women, how they can take care of themselves. You don't need a doctor to do it. It's really addressing the core features of the body, the thyroid, adrenal, gut, hormone balance. And you can do all of this on your own. That's the beauty of it. And like I said earlier, you know, I can't prevent you from getting sneezed on with the COVID, but we can teach you some skills and how to eat, how to relax, how to exercise. That makes a big difference whether you're going to end up in the hospital, in the ICU, or on a ventilator. I think those, in most people, are within their control of reversing some of this chronic illness and getting to the best health of your life. And that's the beauty of this window, is you have some time right now to be the best you can be. And it's really a chance to do it the right way. Oh, gosh, I love that, Mark. And I love what you mentioned, because when you first hear the word heart disease in women, my first thing is I'm in medicine, and I didn't realize the prevalence of what you just quoted, that two out of three women are going to die of heart disease. That's a really big deal. So am I one of them and my two best friends? Which one, you know, so this is really relevant to women who are listening. And the second thing you said was, you talked about adrenals, then you talked about thyroid, and you talked about, obviously I know the functional medicine matrix and all these things inter-correlate, but I would bet there's a lot of people that are listening, that are surprised to you. You talked about the gut and heart and the thyroid and the brain and all these other organs. And I love that you've put together a book that really, heart disease is the core, but it could really help patients who have thyroid disorders or autoimmune disease, and we know autoimmunity is one of the triggers for heart disease, right? You're so right, Jill. And for us, for you and I, they're all the same thing, whether it's heart disease, dementia, diabetes, obesity, arthritis. You know, we have a bunch ofologists treating all of these itises. And at the core, it's inflammation. And if there's one thing that makes you vulnerable to a virus, it's having chronic inflammation. You don't want to fire lit and then throw some gas on it. So put the fire out, fire in the gut, fire in the heart, fire in the brain, fire in the joints, fire in the skin. It's all related. And so these messages are really core messages about how to shift your health today, but also prevent these things that are coming down the road for you. You definitely can make a difference yourself. Yeah. And I love that you're powering the reader because by just by reading it and implementing some changes, granted, they can take it to their doctor. They can collaborate. You'd probably recommend that. But the truth is these things are simple because they have to do with choices that the patient themselves can make. It's not like they have to go out and get five prescriptions. It's actually probably not recommended. So that's exciting because it empowers. I think so many patients feel helpless at least the old paternalistic models like, oh, what am I going to do? I remember this example when I first started integrative medicine and was prescribing vitamins and I would say vitamin D. You need to go get D3. And the question would be like, well, does my insurance cover that? And why are you even thinking that question because it's $5 a bottle and it's going to help you? And if your insurance doesn't cover it, does that mean you won't take it? It's just because we think about this model of insurance protectiveness. And that's so far from the truth, as we both know. And even our doctors, right? Even Mark and I, who have a much more holistic function as an approach to this, it's ultimately the patients who is responsible and we're there to help and guide and to teach. But it really comes down to the lifestyle choices that they are willing to make that's going to determine outcomes and not their insurance and not their doctor. Well, as you said earlier, when you're acutely ill, that model works very well when you get hit by a car or you fall off your bicycle or you get a blood clot. But for addressing chronic illness and these chronic inflammatory conditions, and those are the ones that make you vulnerable for this virus, you have the power to change it. And as our friend Mark Iman says, your power is at the end of your fork. And you vote every day with your fork. So it's really those choices. I look at these older couples that are in Walmart and they're wearing their masks and they're socially distancing and they're using hand sanitizer. But then they're getting highly processed food. They're getting donuts and pastries. And I can't connect those two. So if you're willing to embrace one behavior, go the next step and do the other behavior. That's what's really going to make a difference. Whether you wear a mask or not may not. But the food you put in your body has a huge difference on whether you're going to get sick and how sick you're going to get if you do get it. Supposedly we're all going to get it. Yeah, before this is over we're all probably going to get some variation. I was assisting in Eastern Europe over January and February. And I thought for sure because I came home really sick, high fever, flu symptoms. The flu test was negative and I couldn't get a COVID test. My hospital wouldn't do it for me. So I finally did it on myself about three or four weeks ago. And I was negative. I was kind of hoping I was positive. Maybe that it protects you. We don't know. But I think there's a lot of people that have actually already had it. There's a lot of people that have been exposed and it's all around us. But whether you get sick from it or not I think you have control over it. And it's your choices that you're doing. Mark, I feel I don't have a lot of fear and I'm not cavalier but I just feel like as I'm doing all the right stuff for me and I'm standing here. Not everybody knows this. I have an immune deficiency. I'm one of the high risk. I don't walk around afraid. So I'm literally in that category that's a high risk and I still believe that I can beat this and not get really sick. Now I'm going to happen. And if it does, I'll deal with that. But I thought of something as you were talking to I'm always trying to simplify things and I always say clean air, clean water, clean food. So if one thing we can leave you that sounds pretty simple as it is. Drinking clean purified water, making sure your air supply is cleaner like Dr. Mark said, being outside you're going to have a lot more airflow and oxygen exchange. And then clean food is really huge. And just to break it down, you want non-processed, you want low sugar. Sugar really, really decreases immune function for up to six hours after you consume it. So your processed foods and your sugars, your donuts, cookies, crackers, pizza, all of those kinds of things are really better left out of your diet. Eating your lean proteins, chicken, fish, wild game is amazing. And then your vegetables, plant-based is still where it's at. So whether you're keto or paleo or anything in between, I still believe in a high plant diet with meat as a moderation. And then healthy fat. So olive oils and avocado oils and other fish oil, things like that are excellent. So that's great. Now I guess one last thing I'd like to leave before we talk about where people can find you is just, is there anything personally that you've taken from this? I know I could share one or two things, but for you, has there been any impact as far as this pause on your life or thinking about future or any thoughts about what it's meant for you personally as far as what happened this last two months? Well, that's a great question. I'm going to ask you the same one in a moment. For me, I actually decided this winter in December to slow things down a little bit and to spend more time with my family. And we both work so hard lecturing around the world. We're so much there are clinics and supporting people. And I decided to support myself. And so I'm about as fit as I've ever been. I'm 57, I feel like I'm 37. I do something active every day. I eat as clean as I can. I've got a great partner that I'm passionate about and we have a great connection. I love my family. I love the people I work with. I'm just in a really good spot. And then this came. So I really empathize with people who aren't. I was working in Phoenix when the SARS hit. And I remember as a resident looking up at the ICU at the 12th floor thinking, okay, I have a 36 hour shift taking care of critically care people COVID or SARS that I have to go home and see my two kids. So my heart goes out to all of the first responders, the physicians, the nurses, the administrative clerks, the EMS teams. Those are the people on the front lines and I've been there. And it's a scary place. So if you have someone like that in your life, do something nice for them. But what you said about nutrition, Jill, if everyone listening just takes that away about how to eat and what to eat, I think our immune herd immunity will be so much stronger. And the need to be so distant, we may not need to if everybody's healthy. Gosh, so true. I love it. So what have you taken away? And what's your... What I love that you kind of pre... You've pre-did your homework as... You probably do that at school too. You're probably like ahead of the curve. You must have got the hemorrhage. It's so funny because I like saying... I have this like inkling, like things have to change because I was going to, you know, mock speed and flying all over the world and crazy, crazy schedule. And I enjoy that. But I also knew underneath it all, like this is unsustainable. And I might practice eating, sleeping, all the other good things. But if my stress level and the time on airplanes and in hotels is that will sabotage, no matter how good I eat or sleep or relationships. So I have this inkling, something had to change. But when this first started, and I literally got the notice that all my travel is canceled for three months. And I had to... I'll straw you. I mean, some big trips planned. I was so relieved, Mark. I was like completely like, how did this happen? Because I know on my own, I could have never told all those people, no, I'm not going. I would have just done it. That's the right thing to do. But for me, it was this divine pause and opportunity to reset. And I think going forward, there's a lot of things that are going to be different. I feel like I'm going to find ways to reach people and teach and do what I love without all the travel, for sure. I'll still travel, but not to the extent where it's three or four times a month. It's just too hard on the body. And then I think relationships and time, like quiet time. To me, it's always about productivity. And so I measure it by productivity. So if I take an hour or hour and a half walk, very unproductive. But I'm learning, it actually turns me into way more productive. So I'm learning these quiet, still things. And you mentioned your age and fitness. I feel the same, Mark. I'm 43. And I am in the best shape of my life, far better shape than my 20s and 30s. And part of it, really, I joke to people because they're like, how did you get so fit? I lost 8% body fat by stopping working out. And you know the trick was, I was raising my cortisol, doing this high-intensity stuff. It was the wrong thing for me. I was already massively high cortisol. I was pushing it every day when I give it 530 and go do orange theory or go run. And I had a trainer who was doing functional movement and resetting my body. She said, I want you to stop all that for a month. And my body composition, littering that month, started to change and continued. And basically, all I do now is walk and hike, do a little bit of free weights. I do do pull-ups on the bar back there, but simple stuff, not even every day. I feel like I don't work out compared to before, and I'm in the best shape of my life. So a lot of us women, men probably too, that cortisol can be driven by our intensity of exercise. And for some people, it's not the right fit. And I didn't know that for the first half of my life. Well, I listened to a podcast of Ben Greenfield, who's kind of a crazy guy out there, he's one of the fitness experts. And he said, a lot of us are training like we're gladiators. You know, we go to CrossFit, we go to the gym, we do these incredibly intense workouts. Then we sit down for six hours at our desk all day. And he said, that actually doesn't really make sense. It's not good for the body to be so on and so off. So I've always believed in moderation, moderation in everything. I think that that's one of the keys. And if you can moderate in that, don't get too stressed out. Don't do get too little sleep, too much exercise, too dehydrated, really finding that balance. And it's different for everybody. But once you start looking for it, you'll find more of it. Yeah. And if we, that's our takeaway here. It's like we found balance and you found it before and I've hopefully found it during and will continue. But it's a constant practice every day because there's things always drawing it. People all, I'm sure our listeners and both of us too. So where can people find you, Dr. Mark, if they want to know more information and what's your website? What's your mental? Well, the website is menoclinic.com, M-E-N-O-C-L-I-N-I-C dot com. We're here in Jackson Hole and we've developed a destination program, which is on pause right now. But as the world spins again, it's one of the things I like to do is to share the kind of medicine you and I do with the kind of environment that we live in and do a one plus one equals 10. So we'd love for you to come to the site and like yourself, Jill, we're really communicators for people. We're taking everything we know and sharing it. And that's the beauty of what's happening in health is people like yourself are sharing great information. And if you guys haven't gone to Dr. Jill's website, it's my favorite one, the functional medicine doctor. And there's such great information. So people have access to good information. And that's one of the keys is I think both of our passions are to deliver good information to people. Yeah, awesome. And can they find the book on, I'm sure on Amazon, what about your website? Is it also for sale there? Yeah, it is. And we have a bunch of free, the first chapter is free. And there's a couple of PDFs that are really helpful, I think, to help people get started. Perfect. And it's really looking at yourself through this light of the entire body. And if heart disease is something you're concerned about, then this is the place to start. Fantastic. I'll be sure and link up to our video, all those resources for you guys to listen in. Dr. Mark, it is fun as always. I could talk to you for hours. Thank you so much for your time today. Great. Thank you, Jill.