 Hello and welcome to MIPTV and with me as always is the polymath of psychotherapy books, Bob Cook. How are you doing, Bob? I'm very well on this lovely warm day. Yeah, you've got a fantastic book for us tonight. Power is in the patient by Mary and Robert Goulding. Yes. So this is an interesting book, isn't it? So many people have known the Gouldings for redecision therapy. Correct. Is this slightly different? Is this something they may not be known for, Bob? No, this is again about redecision psychotherapy, this book. Right. We're going back 60, 70 years, 1973, so it's got its vintage. We're going back into history. But you know, redecision therapy, which was really one of the styles of psychotherapy, and Mary and Robert Goulding being one of the people of elders of TA who created redecision psychotherapy, wrote this book after the most famous book, I think, changing lives in redecision psychotherapy, which we've actually talked about here. Yeah. This is that book. What I like about this book particularly, which is why I'm bringing it here. Besides, you know, I like talking about redecision psychotherapy. But what I really like about this book is the emphasis on autonomy, taking personal responsibility for change in a client's life. In other words, it's really centered on positive change and also autonomy. So in other words, contracting is very strong around specific change and taking responsibility for the change in the here and now. And I know that you've talked previously about putting the new script on the road and getting a new script on the road. There's this link to that, this idea that you're helping clients break the life scripts that they've had created in childhood and carried through their lives. And they're effectively helping people develop a new script like a new actor would be to go out into the world and live with that script. I think you're right. And redecision therapy, especially Bob and Mary Goulden talked about going to the Child Eager State, looking at injunctions, impasses and helping the person make new redecisions in the child so they can integrate that in their adult and change their script. That's correct. That's redecision psychotherapy to a T. What I like about this book as well, which I don't think was, well, it was talked about in their redecision changing lives book, but really emphasized in this book is the Gestalt ideas, if you like, because they mix Gestalt techniques with transactional analysis, they trained with pearls and burn. How interesting. They put the two together. So how, what aspects of Gestalt would they draw on in terms of working with clients? Yeah, the idea of personal responsibility for change, the idea of really encouraging autonomy, the idea of confronting words like try, should, must, can't. They would, they would call that a con into person's victim state. So they would confront that and ask them to change their language to will and much more a sense of autonomy. They would confront any, what we call victory behavior, and they would also encourage Gestalt experiment, especially around the, you know, what people call the top dog on the underdog and the dialogues talking to each other. They did a lot of work and they talk about this book again about exaggerating, you know, body movements, for example, you know, so somebody is, I don't know, they're tapping on the, on the actual chair or whatever. So exaggerate that tapping or exaggerate that food movement, you know, that movement in the leg or exaggerate XXX. So they would be very strong and Gestalt ideas of exaggeration, experimentation in the service of positive change. Yeah, and I like the, I like what you're saying because one of the things that of course Pearls was, was very clear about in Gestalt was that the here and now was everything and any, you know, in the past or in the future was this an escape. He believed that was the escape from reality, to some extent. He said that in the Gloria films when he was working with Gloria. Yeah, and he said, you know, any attempt to go into the past or the future would be an escape and he would, he would focus on that and say, you know, you're going back into the past, but actually this is the here and now. It sometimes could come across as quite harsh when you talked about exchange those will do and, you know, more positive felt like a bit of the techniques they use in 12 step AA programs. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, where they, where they, you know, they, they, they don't allow people to escape into a victim place. Yeah, that's what. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, a mixed of Gestalt experimentation, like I've just said, and the idea of what you said at the beginning, going back and making redecisions from when they were originally made. So they could change their script and be different in the present. Now that's different. I understand from some of the Gestalt philosophy because the way you just described it. So, so what I like about the Gouldings was the mix of gestalt actionistic techniques and the ideas of making redecision in the present and changing a person's script and using these what I call actionistic experiential Gestalt techniques to enable the person to enter a different part of the Salvi child ego state. So it's an interesting book, particularly. It is. And it does, it does kind of speak of a little technical integration, as we call it, way to disciplines in and very, I would imagine an interesting book for students to And you know what particular is the is the use of case studies and transcripts. Oh, in this book, they take case studies and transcripts as a way of looking and examining the interventions from a Gestalt perspective, and a TA perspective, which is the hub of the book, but the actionistic heightening experiences of Gestalt psychotherapy. So it's very good for students to actually have a have a look at the therapeutic room, if you like, or what's going on in the therapeutic conversation via transcripts. Yeah, so there's a there's a strong sounds like there's a strong base of of research on the research would be qualitative, in other words, taking a snapshot from case studies being yet and showing how it works. Yeah. And the final thing I want to get this in because I'm really hot. I really like this philosophical base. The title says a lot of the way. I mean, Goulding and Robert Goulding thought the power is in the patient, not in the car and not not in the therapist. Yeah, is in the patient. They have they are the people that instrument change. They are responsible. They are the people actually make the change not as burn often talked about the therapist. It's interesting, isn't it that that shift from expert to kind of a kind of therapeutic friend walking along. There's a smatching of Rodgers in there, I think. I mean, it was, you know, Rodgers came along in the 1950s. He was the real giant of the humanistic revolution. So I'm sure they will have met and I'm sure they will have been influenced by Rodgers as much as they influenced by burn. Of course, you know, therapy in pearls. So they, they will have really had a huge amount of influence these giants on them. And of course, they became, you know, giants in their own way. Mary and Goulding and were, you know, elders and the TA movement and helped shape the TA movement to where it is now. But I particularly like the title of this book and the philosophical humanistic ideas of the the change being in in the actual client and not in the expert therapist. I really come from that place myself. Yes. Yes. And I think it's interesting. You said the book was published in 1973. Yeah. And if we think of when the relational term came in transactional analysis, that was a long time afterwards. So there's an acknowledgement about moving from an, you know, from being the expert to to trust in the client. You used the word autonomy, the idea that the client knows best and can can self generate is is a fascinating one, even from a historical perspective. And I hope students reading this book reflect on this. Yes. Because often students get once they carried away, but they can actually, yeah, I suppose carried away with their ego and believing they are the experts in inverted commerce, but actually the change it resides in the client. And if there's no motivation for change, no responsibility for change, it won't happen. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I think I think the evidence is is right. Rogers did some research at Wisconsin and and that came up motivation to change the one of the key factors in in people wanting to. So we'll tell you about this book again. The power is in the patient, Mary and Robert Goulding will put a will put a link below. So click on to the link below and you can go and examine the book. It's always Bob doesn't get paid for book reviews. This isn't endorsement or a paid book review. You can get a free copy of the book. Bob is just showing his love of love of literature. So Bob Cook, thank you very much. Thank you.