 Good morning. Thank you so much for choosing to be part of us this very Monday. Actually, our conversation is kind of digressing from what is happening because so many people love Reagan. And anyway, so we want to look at Nairobi County under the state governance. And this is in regards to what happened last week on Tuesday. Nairobi Governor Mike Sonko decided to seed some powers to the state. Now we will be looking into the legal questions that raise eyebrows on is it constitutional to have the one of the counties managed by the government. Okay, what Sonko is saying is it's true there's no country or any any part of the nation worldwide where the national government doesn't have a say. But now he has given some say to the state. So there are so many questions right there. There are also questions of misappropriation of funds in terms of the tenders awarded. There are two scenarios that have been looked into. We'll be also talking about his stay in power. There's a looming impeachment. Will it stand? Will it fail? Keep it Y254. Send in your comments to all our social media platforms that Y254 channel. My guest this morning is a political analyst, Cyrus. Welcome. How are you? I'm very fine and you? I'm very well. Good to have you. Thank you. I want you to tell me in a single statement, do you love Rage? I love Rage. You love it? Yes, I love Rage. Okay, there are people who want Rage to stop and others wanted to continue. Anyway, now just like I have said earlier, Nairobi Governor Mike Sonko, many would call him embattled governor just because he's out, he's not allowed to be in office. But he has he has done some things that people would be like, okay, does it exist in the constitution? Siding power to the state or to the state house? What does it mean? Is it in the constitution? Yes. Ah, thank you for having me this morning. I think what has happened to Nairobi City County with something within the constitution, although the other breach of the constitution itself, but when you look at it, it is several of the constitution. It allows the national government to take over county in in case there are arising issues like let me say emergency issues and not in the capacity the county is in at the moment. What we can say is that why did I say that the law has been in one way or the other been overlooked? One governor Sonko is facing graft charges while facing graft charges the judge asked Sonko to remain out of office not to exercise any any any any any official duty be it outside concerning the county be it outside or within the county itself okay the county offices so he was bad from all these things within the by the by the court ruling. But now by allowing Sonko to come and sign the document it shows that this guy is stealing power and is still practicing what he has been asked not to by the by the by the by the courts now this one shows that we don't respect our courts we put them there we need justice from them but we are not ready to deliver justice and to our courts the directors to do see justice is a two-way traffic even issued with directives from the court I should respect them it's also part of practice part of exercising our justice but to when the the the court's issue orders and I don't respect them then there's no justice there then another issue is that I believe what the the state did on Nairobi county let me take it that the the the national government is trying to look on how it can manage Nairobi city county without a governor because there have been calls that Nairobi should be under a minister metropolitan minister and I believe and I tend to think whatever the the the national government has done the the argument between the the the let me say sonko and the national government they're trying to look or they're trying to uh uh yeah they're trying to study what if a minister can manage the county government and that's why you saw that there are the key services that the county has to deliver to its people were taken over by the national government now I believe because there have been calls that letters have a minister in the uh within the city who should manage the city and not a governor so this I believe that some of the thing that the the the state wants to work on because you see it is not only in Nairobi county that has issues we have we've had kiambo which they have already sorted their issues through impeachment and now pointing uh swearing in the deputy governor as the governor writes now now that case has already been solved we have samburu which has also the same same issues that the corruption issues that has made the governor not to exercise his duties okay now the question you're asking yourselves why not samburu and Nairobi county and that's why I look it into I look into that issue with that perspective maybe the national government wants to try and see what if this one can be under minister and that's why the devolution minister uh the devolution see us using was the one entering into a contract with the the governor and to see they're saying this is a two-year thing a 24 months thing that needs to be renewed okay but also still in the same vein uh do we need a technocrat in Nairobi county or we need a politician because a minister coming in should be uh technocrat to some extent Nairobi county is a country like any other county despite the it being a city it is a county it is it has its own people that also need to access their own rights they also need to have their own leader they also need services that's why we have the same structures that we have in Nairobi county the same structures that we have in other uh 46 counties we have the words we have the sub counties and other things okay so these things need to be addressed uh by the by the government of Nairobi county okay so we cannot say that Nairobi county is an exception no when we say it's an exception then we need to look at Mumbai it's also a city and it's on now we need to look at it should it also be managed the same way but these are some of the these are the cities that contribute uh on the light on on on the GDP through uh the economic activity because Nairobi being a city it has uh offices where people migrate mostly for employment looking for employment and most most of industries are in Nairobi also now in the Mombasa being a city it has a port and other amenities that create uh employment that make people move from their rural areas to Mombasa city now when we say that Nairobi should not be under governor then we should question ourselves should also Mombasa not be under governor but under also a minister so these are some of the things that also we need to sit down and question because if it is a state as it is also in in Mombasa also Kisum is a city also Nakuru is a city it was uh uh lived there that was it there last year it was a city so we have four cities in this country so when we are looking and saying Nairobi should be and be under a minister one day one time we may have like 10 cities in this country will they all be under a minister then devolution will be losing its then devolution is losing its meaning so there's something you mentioned uh okay now it is a provided in the constitution but now there's also something that he did he reshuffled the the cabinet still out his cabinet that is and our question because of the some of the questions on misappropriation of funds like the tender that was awarded to uh to the world that was being built in Dandora and questions were like why reshuffle when you know already there are questions being asked by the auditor general so was it also right for him to reshuffle or still it's a mere ignorance of the court order yeah looking at the court order it was very clear and I remember when governor Lenok Lal tried to reshuffle his cabinet you saw what happened to what the DPP had to say about it okay now what we need to to do is as I said earlier we need to respect our courts and by respecting our courts is not only by looking at the courts issuing the the the justice that you will will make me happy as an individual but I as an individual who has been issued directives directed by the courts I should be able to respect those directives and you see the question the question of corruption and why is it that the judge say that he should not exercise any any executive laws or any duties in the county it was because he will interfere with the witness in one way or the other because the people who signed that or approved the contracts okay they are the ones that are being reshuffled okay now when you say you want now to question this person okay now how will you question this person and he's out of office because when I'm leaving the office I'm leaving some documents okay and some truth and some truth that I'm running away with but you see when I'm there then I'll be there it will be easier for me to answer than when I'm outside because I'll tell you I changed the office then someone is someone else is in that office so it is very difficult for me to answer or to respond to your queries when I'm out of that office but it becomes more easier when I'm within that office because when investigations are being carried okay it'll be more easier to find the truth in that office unlike when someone is out okay so those are some of the things that we need to look into and because the corruption things have become like a pandemic or a big problem to this country these are some of the things that and that's why we are saying we need to have corruption cases to be speeded up because if we can have a timeline of corruption cases somebody has been accused of corruption then let us say we have like 24 days to get a determination especially these governors the the ministers and any other state officers then we shall have the right the right mechanisms to reach into and say that actually this person is clean or not clean but when we don't have a timeline on these cases of corruption then we shall just continue having the same problems of corruption all right actually even as you speak about corruption I just mentioned some corruption cases that have been mentioned or even I should put it as it is we have a stalled project along enterprise road that road has been there for quite some time and the the elite ITS limited is being questioned why don't you do this and I remember there was a time a personal someone here was trying to tell me he went to someplace in Mombasa road and spent hours and when he was coming back the people he left at the construction site seated they were still seated for hours nothing they were doing and this is a project that has been paid for again at that question in Dandora the the audit shows money has been paid twice and so the car is coming in we know you are paid so remit your taxes one in one thing in one area on that first of all I look at the carry the carry also has laxity because when someone is has already been paid there's what we call withholding tax right which is deducted immediately okay from the source it is deducted and sent to the carry so when you are raising queries is it the right time to raise queries right now when the money is already left the bank to do other things or the time you should raise queries is when the money has been already remitted to the bank in fact you they can issue a communication to the bank that they are investigating that money so they should flag that account okay because when services are delivered there's what you call withholding tax okay this shows that you've been paid okay and these are the these are the taxes that you need to pay to the government so already the money was sent before the money is remitted to the account withholding tax is already remitted to carry okay so when carry now comes in after the money has been spent it's just what we call PR okay because where were you when you received the withholding tax the first withholding then you receive the second withholding tax why didn't you question because I believe the same amount that was sent for the withholding tax is the same at the first time is the same same amount that was sent at the second time if they have been paid twice which I don't dispute but I'm what I'm saying is that let us all be vigilant let us all play our roles the way in the best way possible for the interest of Kenyans so when carry comes in right now to tell us all about this it has been sent it has been paid twice my question is where are you where where why is it that you didn't respond okay why is it that you didn't act when withholding tax was sent to you twice all right okay because with holding tax was deducted twice where why is it that you didn't respond or you can say withholding tax was not sent okay but you can go and confirm all this because there's what what KRA issues is what we call with holding certificate it issues once it has been deducted so we want we need to look all into all this then we know who is telling the truth and who is telling the lie maybe the patterns that the governor keeps saying are becoming smarter by day they they were able to loop that and KRA didn't realize until it was too late no there's one thing I can say and that's why I'm really insisting on the Kenyans even authority because once I've delivered a service to an institution especially a government institution not only even a government institution and I'm supposed to send or to remit withholding tax okay the withholding tax is cut from the source or maybe probably it never went through the banks no no no it's not that's you sound that's huge amount of money now how was it paid you remember during the past regime it was said money was being moved in banks so this time round maybe it never went there but now there are books which the auditor general came across and said look we you have paid this contract twice so now the KRA officials of course they found the the documents and they're like now okay we had this one but this one we never did so give us the money you see that and that's why I'm saying some X and Kenyans are being taken for a fool because one auditors are in all these offices and you see and why I'm talking about the so much on withholding tax with holding tax is not like VAT VAT I'm the one who will compute it and remit okay and I'm able to say I didn't make profit so I'm not I'm not able to pay something so I'm running on a negative right but for withholding tax when monies are being paid is now the employer who is remitting the money withholding tax is like pay okay okay withholding tax is like pay in fact withholding tax goes to KRA before you receive the payments true okay it goes to KRA before you receive the payments and that's why I'm saying all this needs to be looked into from KRA we don't know we don't we don't need only to look at this corruption okay that has is being mentioned at county and the service provider only no we need to look it from KRA okay and then from this side we shall get the whole truth then we shall know who is telling us lie because all these things KRA always distances itself and comes in maybe late to bring queries okay but it is there to help us help the common money because these are the taxes that one inch needs to get services from because once you fail once we fail to remit our taxes then they won't be development then we won't have health then you won't have roads because from these taxes is where now the government gets its own revenue apart from the the depth that you borrow outside the revenue collection in the country is what is being used for development and other service delivery which is a lot and we are not seeing what it is doing yes and now the governor says I'm still in power even after sitting some level of power to the state he says I'm still the boss here I may be out but I'm still the boss but now the the question goes to the mce's you have given some powers what is our role that's the question and they were meeting the president yesterday they had a meeting at state house and it was like you're still the mce of your ward but they kind of feel like our roles have been taken what's the picture now for the the problem of the problem we have with the mcs is that now their oversight role has been clipped when they want oversight over the health who are they going to question now it is under the the the the national government will they call the minister for health and question that minister no because the minister has changed the the minister the c s for health okay should be questioned by the parliamentarians no they see and another mcs now you see they've been undermined in a way they have been undermined in one or the other and that's why you see this thing was just between sonko and the devolution and the and the division secretary with the president and the senate speaker so in one or the other the Nairobi mcs are just but puppets right now for the for the next two years they are just going to be puppets in that city hall they are not going to do anything but you see all these things they failed long ago the mcs themselves because they all saw this but because they value their stomach then the future of Nairobians they decided to be silent so they failed long time ago now they cannot come and say they want to correct the mess right now because now there's the county the city is under the president of the national government okay and the governor whom they cannot impeach at the moment yeah actually when they are during the meeting the president called call them to come and say there's no need for yeah they cannot impinge politically things do not be good and also will be spending a lot of money and also not live alone spending are we not spent money in kiam we've not spent money for for for for the for the new governor but for for the for Nairobi to be a by-election because we don't have a deputy but you see but Nairobi we've not had a deputy for a long time okay we've not had a speaker for a long time but things have been running okay so we cannot take these to be a special case no okay we only need to be serious and someone somewhere is sleeping and what we Kenyans need to do is we need to get fully informed okay so that we exercise our rights when we are going to vote let us all be vigilant let us know why are we voting and what are our expectations but our promise the promises we get are so sweet that you don't look at the person you look at what he's offering that is now the culture that we need to get out of okay because we are fooled by the promises and the promises that we given by the politicians none of them deliver the promises they give us once they are now in the office because the power that was given to the people the power to recall it is not with the people it is the still it rests with the mcs the mps and the senators because if today you impeach a governor he'll go to the senate and survive in one or the other you've collected the signatures to impeach him you have all the reasons but this person will go to the senate and be reinstated as the governor okay now have you said your rights no you will feel like you are nobody in this country when you recall an MP the MP still goes and has to be okay be be vetted or be confirmed to be to be recalled by the other MPs but they will always defend their own and that's the problem we have yes so these are some of the things that we need to sit down and look into especially this constitution as much as you are running to make amendments on the constitution these are some of the things the privileges that we need to sit down as a people and they interrogate and look into them and now think on a strategy on how you're going to work out and that's where the law society of Kenya needs to come in and educate the people okay it is why it is part of their mandate it is part of their duty to enlighten the people okay because these sounds like let me say the the legal advisor to the people where now the people would seek their they will seek to get assistance from when they feel that they are being watched should change okay so we need to up our game as voters as leaders let us all play our role all right best way because the president called on the mcs to quench down the task to impeach and the majority of the people of which you could say they are jubilee members in their county assembly they are there they are for the president but now the minority speak minority speak of the minority whip yeah emotox says he he will launch the motion tomorrow and he will move it do you think at this point with the mcs having been told by the president come on guys let it go from the day this issue was being raised i knew it won't go anywhere looking at the body language of the speaker okay i knew it won't go anywhere to just that let us just do it for the sake of doing okay but at the end of the day it won't go anywhere that is one two the majority of the mcs and even the governor himself is for the jubilee party so the jubilee may not be able or we may not agree to lose the seats in one way or the other because they don't they they've not identified who will manage the county but if the mcs if the county had a deputy governor okay for example if we got it could still be there then this could work out easy okay because at the end of the day the deputy governor will just take over all right okay and run the county the way kiambu is being managed at the moment right but right now there's a big crisis now to manage the crisis is to ignore the impeachment and what ima talk is doing is just been trying to speak but in the real sense he won't do it because in one way or the other the governor won't be impeached and he won't be impeached he won't but but also okay we're running out of time but i want us to to touch on if the impeachment goes through we'll have a questions of political stability and also considering Nairobi is a business hub what happens now because we've already have our problems now if now impeachment comes through as now the the the national government has taken over some some services and some ministers to manage i believe then the the county we won't go for an a by-election now the count will be taken over by the national government completely completely okay that is the scenario that will be created right now so we won't go for an election but now a minister will be put in place to manage or it just be put under the minister of the position so for it to be managed okay but now talking of an a by-election within the city no it won't work at the moment bearing in mind the the we are nearing an election two years from now then another thing the costs of election okay then another thing the the the the the bbi thing so you looking at all these scenarios we may not have an election in Nairobi per se but the Nairobi county will be taken over by the national government and will that be holding the people of Nairobi a transform yes yes it will because one who will now oversight the the the the the the the c the cc's who are supposed to be there and there'll be no cc at the end of the day now when the national government takes over now this is another another management now the mcs will only be there to legislate okay but not oversight all right okay because they need to oversight the executive they only be there to legislate all right now that's Nairobi county and the state you've clearly heard of some of the things that you might change if this continues especially that of impeachment of the governor if it will go through the county assembly of Nairobi tomorrow pite more talk is undermined that he will move the motion so it's a wait and see scenario coming up next is val with matter's health you need to know more about the earring and it's very important in your life and our body as much he has been my guest political analyst siras elites work my name is a deriva hilevi good morning