 Welcome to ongoing Town Meeting Day election coverage by Town Meeting Television. This is one of a series of forums we are bringing you in advance of Town Meeting Day on March 7th, 2023. Town Meeting TV hosts forums with all candidates and covers all ballot items you will see on your ballot. Town Meeting Television election forums introduce you to community decision makers and connect you with issues that shape your local community. If you are tuning in live, we welcome your questions at 802-862-3966. Watch Town Meeting Television on Comcast Channel 1087, Burlington Telecom Channel 17 and 217, as well as online at youtube.com slash town meeting TV. My name is Elaine Haney and tonight's forum is for candidates for a two-year seat and open seat on the South Burlington City Council. Those candidates are Paul Engels, Tyler Barnes and Lydia Diamond. We will begin with a series of questions and an opening statement and we will have lots of opportunities for folks to call in. Again, that number is 802-862-3966. Let's start with opening statements. I would love to hear from each of you. What would be different in South Burlington if you are elected? Lydia, let's start with you. Well, I stepped up to run because I was told that no person of color had ever stepped up to run for city council. And I'm like, really? So I went to the city clerk's office, asked what the requirements were. You need to be a resident and a registered voter. So here I am. Hello. Thank you, Lydia. Tyler. A small business owner in South Burlington, I went to a city council meeting a few years back where they were discussing parking requirements. And specifically they were discussing eliminating them for new businesses. And as a small business owner who had struggled with parking issues, it was something I wanted to hear about and discuss with the council. And I'd asked, I posed the question to the committee and asked one of the counselors directly, how many small business owners have you spoken with about this? And I was surprised to learn that they'd only engaged one. I believe firmly that we're at our best when a number of competing interests all have a voice at the table for how we're determining policy. And as a small business owner, as a South Burlington parent, and as nearly a lifelong South Burlington resident, that's exactly what I'd like to bring to the city council is a balanced voice, one that represents where I'm coming from. All right. Thank you, Tyler. And Paul. I was a city councilor from 2011 to 2013, and I have been on the charter committee and the planning commission. And I've done a lot of work that I'd like to see come to fruition. And it is up to the city council ultimately to make the decisions about policy for the city. And I just thought this was an opportunity to make some of the things happen that I've wanted to see happen in South Burlington. Great. Thank you, Paul. So let's start with some questions. The first question for each of you, and you'll each have two minutes to respond, is will you be supporting the South Burlington City budget and school budget in the amounts of 55.29 million and 62.53 million, respectively? Paul, let's start with you. Yeah, I do support the budgets. We've got good people working for us in South Burlington. City manager Jesse Baker, I think she really knows what she's doing. She's going to be great for South Burlington. And I would trust any budget that she'd put together. I think the budget is a 7% increase or something, but inflation right now is 8.3% or something. I think it's a tight, slim budget, but there's, you know, we've just gone through a pandemic and there's been some serious hits in city government. We need police officers. We need firemen. We need a budget that is going to restore the city since the pandemic. The school budget, I don't know that much about, really, but the school has been struggling for the last couple of years. I was on a task force for planning and visioning for the school district. We looked at building a new high school. We looked at what to do with the elementary schools. Our schools are getting old. They were built in the 1960s. You know, that's now 60 or 70 years ago. And the cost of construction is enormous. There's a bond issue this year just to keep repairs made to the schools. So, yes, anything that you're looking at is, I believe, pretty solid. Okay, thank you. Tyler, what is your response to that question? Yeah, it's not, to echo Paul and to Bill in his point, South Bruns and residents are hurting right now. Vermonters are hurting right now. So, any budget that poses an increase is not one that I take lightly. But that said, I think there are a lot of things in this budget that are really important. I applaud the city council for, and Jesse Baker and her team for the work that they've done, because I think they've done a great job putting together a budget that balances our needs while accounting for where residents are at right now. Specifically, with the wastewater treatment, this is something that's long overdue. I applaud us for being proactive in taking measures against fixing that before it becomes a more serious issue. Coming out of COVID, our first responders, our firefighters, our EMTs, our police departments, they've been overstretched for quite some time. And I think this budget does a great job providing them with some much needed relief. So, I wholeheartedly support that. And for the TIF financing, as a friend to many in the business community, I've been hearing for quite a while how excited they are to ease some of the congestion around that part of town. And so, I'm really excited to see that finally come to fruition. With regard to the schools, as someone with three children in the schools, I can say firsthand that I'm very proud of the schools that we have. I think it's important that we maintain that high standard. And coming out of COVID, teachers are overstretched and they need all the resources they can get. I think this is a responsible spend. Thank you. Lydia, your response to that question? I support the budget. I'd like to see more come from the state, though, because the state, it wants to build new prisons for women. And that's not okay. People are struggling to maintain. People are struggling with food insecurity. So, to want to just not that, you know, people aren't already struggling like EMTs, the fire department, everybody's stretched then. And I want to see the state do better by South Burlington as well as all the other little towns. Okay. Let's stick with the budget a little bit with some of the ballot items that are coming up for South Burlington. So, you have three items coming before the ballot, the voter on the ballot, Bartlett Bay wastewater bond, the district financing for the city center, and the school capital improvement bond. Tell us your thoughts on these and why you will or will not be supporting them in March. And let's start with Tyler. Yes. So, again, we spoke about the wastewater bond. I mentioned that previously. I do support that. I think it's really important that, again, we're proactive in these issues. Lake Champlain is one of our most treasured natural resources. And I think it's really important that we take the steps necessary to protect it and that our town does its part. This is something that has been in need of repair for quite some time. But at the same time, hasn't gotten to that stage yet. I don't think I'd like to see us be proactive with it before it gets to that stage. The tip financing for the city center. Again, a lot of small businesses, a lot of businesses locally have been clamoring for this for some time. It's going to do a lot to ease congestion in what will be the heart of our downtown district. So, I think it's important that we take action against that. And school capital improvement bond. This is tough. I would much rather see us take an approach that is less short-term in nature. And one that's a little bit, I don't like to see us spend money that we're going to have to spend again. As someone who's fiscally a little bit more conservative. But that said, there are a few areas where I believe South Burlington really does need to invest to maintain the character that it has and that it's known for and that I'd like to see continue for the next generation. And schools are a very important part of that. And these are improvements that we need. So I think that all parties have done a great job coming up with balanced reasonable approaches to the budget given where we're at economically right now. And I support these measures. Okay. Lydia, how about you? I agree with the wastewater needed to be done. And I'm not saying let's continue to do patchwork. Let's get it done properly because it's important. I'm one of the 41% of renters. And the water backs up in my apartment and it stinks. I'm not a homeowner, but the work still needs to be done. Even if I was a homeowner, I want to see this work done because it's important. It's essential to our future. And the schools, I hope they don't end up like Burlington because Burlington has a mess going on right now. But I think that South Burlington has a better hand on. And they're doing more to make sure that they don't have to knock down a building and find a new space for the children to go to school. That's a lot. The children are in a Macy's building in Burlington. Who knows if that's safe? So I don't want to see that happen ever again in life. Not here, not there. So I support the schools definitely. All right. And Paul. I was one of the people that originally voted for the TIF back in 2012. And I've supported the TIF all this while. It's very important that we make this investment now in the city center that will really boost city center to the level that it needs to be. Garden Street I think could be absolutely a beautiful, beautiful street. Part of it is to build parks. And the city center parks I think are going to be just tremendous. So I strongly support that. Wastewater treatment. I mean we know what happens whenever there's a big rainstorm. One of these treatment facilities overflows and Lake Champlain becomes unswimmable in the summertime. So we don't want that. We don't want any destruction of our lake at all. So that's important to upgrade and to maintain the level of support we need for our lake. And the school district, as I said earlier, I mean this is actually tragic that they're asking for a bond to do maintenance and to keep up with schools. I mean we are the number one school district in the state. People move to South Burlington just so their kids can go to school here. So we need that kind of, we need support for our schools absolutely. Alright, thank you. So the next question is more an opinion and a visionary kind of a question. Do you in your opinion feel that South Burlington has a housing crisis? And what do you see as the nature of housing in South Burlington and how to meet the need for safe and affordable housing for residents, students and visitors? Let's start with Lydia. Well for the BIPOC community, I would love to see some rent to own homes. You know, not just building new buildings, because Market Street or Garden Street is beautiful. I love what the city's done. But for the renters, I'd like BIPOC people to be able to rent a home to own. In the future, it just, I have never heard of it done here, I've heard of it done elsewhere. Okay, and Tyler? Yes, to be honest and to be blunt. Yes, I do believe South Burlington has a housing crisis. I think the state of Vermont has a housing crisis. And I don't profess to have all the answers as to how we solve it. But the simple economics of supply and demand will tell us that we need more and we need to increase our housing stock for a number of reasons. One, as it stands right now from the perspective of current residents and prospective residents, our tax burden is exceptionally high. And if we can spread that burden across more homes, I think that will benefit everyone. Two, employers are having a really hard time finding people in part, not wholly, but in part because they have no place to live. Thirdly, I think it'll help reduce the strain on the climate if we're able to bring people closer to what are the state's largest employers. How I would like to see that addressed. I'm not wholly in favor of limiting and restricting new housing and increasing density in existing neighborhoods. I think that that separates us and I think that it drives us apart at a time where we should be working really hard to bring everyone together. And if the only new houses that can be built are ones that are backfilled in existing neighborhoods, I think that'll cause a lot of problems. So I'd like to see everyone in South Burlington share the burden of having these new homes and that we should be carefully assessing where and how we use the available resources and land and space to do so. Thank you. Okay. And Paul, what are your thoughts on this question? Well, Tyler mentioned more houses. To me it's the old myth of if you increase the grand list and you spread out the cost of things taxes go down. There's a lot of studies that show that that's just absolutely not true. That as you build, you need more services. You need more police. You need more public works. You need more of everything taxes go up. It actually costs us money to develop housing. South Burlington also has done much more than its fair share of building, developing and providing affordable housing. I think we have a thousand affordable housing units. We've got 175 I think coming online. There are 1400 homes in the pipeline to be built. So I mean we're not slackers when it comes to housing. I think we're probably leaders in the state as far as housing is concerned. So I think we need to think, you know, a little more, be a little more circumspect about where we build. I know Tyler mentioned he thinks that's not a good idea to keep the development to the they call it transit overlays. Liston Road, City Center, Shelburne Road. If we're going to develop, let's develop where people can have services and access to transportation. All right. Thank you. Let's keep with the theme of development a little bit. The new downtown city center, the blue mall, the university mall, higher ground, airport expansion. What do you see as the most important locations that need redevelopment and how will you use your role as a city counselor to address these issues? Let's start with Tyler. Which is most important. That's really a great question. I don't know that I can prioritize. I think they're all incredibly important. The airport, while a hot button, is an important engine for economic growth for our community. And without it, I think we'd be in a lot of trouble. And it's already as a home to the Air National Guard and the home to Beta. It's an invaluable resource for us. So while I appreciate that there are sensitivities, particularly with the Chamberlain neighborhood, I think that how we manage that is going to be exceptionally important moving forward. Because again, I don't think it's going to stop becoming an important engine for our economic growth. City Center and the University Mall are both incredibly important. And the TIF district that Paul worked so hard to bring to South Burlington during his tenure, it was built around the idea that those would continue to be a vital economic resource and a vital hub for the community. So I'd like to see that continue. At the same time, I want to be sure that if we were to restrict development to certain areas of South Burlington as the current LDRs promote, I'm worried that they'll change the nature of those plans. The City Center was designed to be a mixed-use area that had thriving retail restaurants, a hub of activity. I don't want to see it just become apartments. That wasn't what it was designed to do. And that's part of it. But I don't want to see those plans erased for the sake of where we can build housing. Thank you. Paul? I was chair of the committee when I was in the council that actually wrote the land development regulations for City Center. So I've been involved in City Center since the start. I think in terms of priority, I would say that the resurrection of the U-Mall is very important to City Center. That whole area is, the code we wrote was for the whole area, San Remo Drive, Staples Plaza, the hotel across from Staples Plaza, all the way down Roeliston Road to Hinesburg, that whole area is City Center. And U-Mall can and I hope will be a big part of that. We're building a pedestrian and bike bridge across the interstate that will open up U-Mall and City Center to University of Vermont. There are University of Vermont buildings being built in City Center to house medical faculty and students, both. So there's going to be an integration back and forth between University of Vermont and U-Mall and City Center. I mean, that's my great hope is that great things will happen with U-Mall. I guess that's it for me, right? Okay. And Lydia. I would like to see more BIPOC people in business in South Burlington, not just housing. And there are, I mean, during the pandemic, there were lots of new BIPOC people, you know, trying to start a business or trying to help folks to just maintain the sanity, you know, being shut down. But there are a lot of beautiful BIPOC people out there. And I want South Burlington to get to know them better because they really do bring something to the table. I live on Lomkin Road, you know, with BIPOC, elderly, disabled. And one of the things that my neighbors asked me to speak about was the difference between affordable housing as far as the city definition and what it really means to the people. Because they struggle in. They struggle in. They children struggle in. I got grandchildren in the school system. And for the first time we are in Colchester. And that's never happened in the 25 years I've been here. Okay. Keeping with that theme a little bit, I'd like to talk about language access. So as a community with a diversity of languages spoken, what ways do you see that city government can expand access and accessibility to more community members who want to participate in local democracy? Lydia, let's start with you. Well, there are folks who are translators. I was on an equity committee and it was huge. It was like 100 people and they had translators on the line for everybody. And it was fantastic. It was, it was, it wasn't all peaches and cream, but you know, the people who could translate would translate and then other folks would comment. And it was across the board of people, black, white, or everybody, poor, rich was great. It only happened once during the pandemic, but I remember it being a very good coming together of us all as a community, but a betterment of the community. So I have a new Spanish family that just moved into my building and I'm looking forward to communicating with them. So, Tyler. It's a great, it's a really great question and it's one I'm really glad that you asked. I used to work for a company named EF Education First and their mission was to help bring the world closer together by providing culturally immersive experiences. So effectively anything and everything that had to do with cultural exchange, that was their business and language was a huge part of it. And my role was not directly related to their main offerings, but I very quickly saw and experienced firsthand how remarkable, what profound life changes. Learning another language, how many doors it opens for so many people and how it creates so many profound life experiences. And that's been my experiences as a foreign language speaker as well. I'm fluent in French. And I'd love to see us, I can see two ways that we can help address that at a city government level. The first is by recognizing that while it starts with kids, well, the first is recognizing that it starts with kids, the earlier kids learn, then the more their eyes are open to the world around them and the more accepting and the more curious they become about other cultures. And I was a little disappointed to learn that, it's always been, was my experience that we start second language learning in sixth grade. But I was really disappointed. My son started sixth grade at Tuttle this year and I was disappointed to find that he only has one semester of it. They only study it for half a year. That's not how we learn languages. So I'd like to see that change. And the second way we can do it is by recognizing that, yes, it starts with children, but it doesn't end there. If I learned anything at EF, it's that remarkable life experiences and remarkable life changes can be had when you learn a language as an adult. And I'd like to see us as City Council and City Government take action on that. Okay. Paul. I was surprised recently to find out that 11% of the population of South Burlington does not speak English at home. We have a significant non-English speaking population. We'll not attend people. We need to address that. We need to be able to provide translators for people. You're talking about bringing people into City Government. It's very important that we bring this population into our City Government. We have a reputation, I think, as being a pretty, you know, lily-white town. And we need to do that. Just as Lydia said, I mean, she wants to see some BIPOC people involved in City Government. We have to take some kind of affirmative action to make that happen. So I had an interesting experience. I think probably everybody in South Burlington knows Clingers Bakery. I was in there a couple of days ago. And there was a young man behind the counter who was speaking impeccable Spanish with a customer. It was really incredible. Just conducting the entire, you know, buying bread, buying rolls and things like that in Spanish. And his manager came out and was surprised to hear that he was bilingual. And, you know, that kind of stuff is the stuff we need in South Burlington. We need to, like, open up to people. All right. Thank you. So changing to a different topic. City of South Burlington has been in the news lately for issues of crime and antisocial behavior. Do you think the data shows a need for more attention to public safety measures? And how would you address this? Let's start with Tyler. Yeah, I can speak to this from experience with our small business. We've directly been impacted by the uptick in crime in our community. And I think it's incredibly important that we start to address this before it starts to get any worse. I think that one of the things that we need to do is make sure that we are adequately staffed, not just for now, but also for the future. I don't see the trends slowing anytime soon and the conversations that I've had with folks in law enforcement. It doesn't seem to be subsiding, so I'd like to see us get ahead of it before we start experiencing more difficulties like some of our neighboring cities. I would also like to see the City Council take a hard look at some of the policies that have been enacted by Sarah George. While I fully respect and appreciate the need for change, I don't think we should ever subjugate anyone's rights to anyone else's. And right now, I think, speaking for myself and speaking for members of the business community who have been impacted by this, it feels as though the rights of many small business owners are being subjugated to the rights of others when we have no recourse against crime that occurs. So I'd like to see us as a Council find a way to find our voice to address that concern in a positive and constructive manner so that we can better achieve some balance around between reform, social justice reform, policing reform, and making sure that we're keeping our cities safe. Okay, thank you. Lydia. I don't need data when it comes to the violence and the guns and the disrespect. My civil rights have been violated right here in Colchester. And it's already a level where it's getting out of control seriously. I shouldn't have to fear for my life ever. But I have, you know, and I don't like to talk about it because by talking about it, I relive it. But I want people to lay their guns down, not just lock them away. The state talked about giving people access to lockers as a result to stop the violence. It does not stop anything. People and guns, we have to do better. We have to do better. It's too much. The violence, the overwhelming violence last year alone, the mass shootings in the schools in this country, we've got to do better. We have got to do better. Too many children have died unnecessarily. Ten black people in the supermarket. That's all I've got to say. I don't know what the data is. I agree with Lydia. I don't know that the data is all that important. We've been getting lots of car break-ins and things in our neighborhood. I'm originally from Rochester, New York. When I first came to Vermont after being in Rochester, I was amazed that drugs was marijuana and sex was free love here. Where I came from, drugs was heroin and sex was prostitution. It's something I really appreciated in Vermont. I'm seeing lately, just now, with the kinds of crimes that are happening, that the drug world is here. It's the world of the junkies. That's what we are dealing with. I don't even know that anybody has acknowledged dealing with it yet. But that is the world that you see. Domestic violence, killings, and petty crimes like car break-ins and things like that. That's the drug world. Thank you, Paul. A different question. What role does municipal government play in the mitigation of climate change? Can you be specific about initiatives that you would encourage through your role as a city counselor? Lydia, let's start with you. Climate change is essential. I said it yesterday. We're not getting another planet. We all come into this world the same way and we leave the same way. And if we don't do better to take care of this planet, take care of this state, take care of our towns, we all screwed. And that's just the basic truth of it. There is so much that needs to be done, but we need good and wholesome adults to get it done. And I want to be one of those good wholesome adults who makes the right decision. It's a long list of things that need to be done. And that's part of why I'm here. Climate change, we have to tackle it. We have to be good at tackling it. Because I want my grandbabies to grow up and be happy. I've got six of them. I'm bragging now. You should. Thank you. Paul. Climate change. We have recently written a Climate Action Task Force report that has gone to and been approved by the City Council. And it calls for some dramatic changes in just the next few years by 2030. We are going to have our work cut out for us on the City Council, no matter who's on the City Council. This is a really a life and death issue. I read recently that spring is coming three weeks earlier. Fall is lasting a month longer. You know, I can remember when town meeting was the day where there was a little trickle of water along the sides of the roads. You know, it was like just the first indications of spring. I mean, that's what we were seeing here a couple days ago. I mean, that's the three weeks earlier for spring that they're saying is happening. It's imperative that we tackle this problem and do whatever we can do. I think all of us in the City Council, any of us who are elected to City Council, had better be prepared for some really tough decisions and some really serious opposition. It's going to be tough. Tyler. Yeah, I'm going to start broad strokes. I know you asked for specifics, but I think it's the context of how I think and approach the issue is important. I see the City Governance, I see the City Council needing to do two things. One, I'd like to see us engage at a broader, bigger level with surrounding communities and with the state. Climate change is not a local issue. And as important as it is, it's not something that we can solve by ourselves. We have, if we're to address the issue effectively, I think it's really important that we engage as many other constituents as we can and develop a long-term plan that accounts for all the different communities, what they have to offer and what they can bring to the table to help solve the crisis. And I'm excited to help do that. And I'm excited to explore what role South Burlington can play in that instead of focusing just on what we can do within our own walls. Thing one. Thing two, as someone who used to work for a solar company, I'm a little reluctant, maybe to the right word, to rush into policies, particularly when they involve technologies that have not quite yet been proven or tested or that may not account for what's coming next. By 2035, you will not be able to go onto a car lot and buy an internal combustion, okay? Yeah. Buy an internal combustion engine car. That's in 10 years. They'll be electric. The average electric car uses as much electricity over 100 miles as the average household uses in a full day. So in 10 years, we're looking at energy demand. An energy demand increase that's unprecedented. Before we go mandating the use of certain appliances or what have you or anything like that, I think it's really important that we consider those implications as we make those policy decisions. It's time. Sorry. It's okay. Would you like to make a rebuttal, Paul? Yeah. Okay, 30 seconds. I don't think that the nations of the world have really done what needs to be done and I really think that the solution to the climate change problem is going to come from the grassroots. It's going to come from cities like South Burlington and our climate action plan and the state of Vermont and the state of Vermont action plan. We need to work locally on this. Think globally, work locally. That is all the time we have for questions. I would like to give you each an opportunity for a 30 second closing remarks. Paul, let's start with you. I said last night that in a closing remark that the most important thing to me when I was in city council was having a couple of people come to me and tell me in confidence some very serious matters and I asked them why and they said it was because I was the one person in the council that they felt they could trust and that they could talk to. Five seconds. I really, I think that's what I offer more than anything and I'm not terribly aware of it but that's apparently who I am. Thank you. Go ahead, Tyler. I'm a nearly lifelong South Burlington resident. I'm proud to call South Burlington my home and to be able to raise my family in town and I'm grateful for all the things that it has afforded me as a child, as an adult, as a parent and as a small business owner and I want to see that continue for the next generation and I believe the best way to do that is to bring diversity and different perspectives to the table, particularly as you make policy decisions. Thank you. And Lydia. So I'm here because I was told I'm messy, I'm professional and I wouldn't be voted for but I'm from Brooklyn. That's not news. I've been here almost half my life and I'm going to keep doing what makes me happy. All my children are adults. My grandchildren give me joy and laughter and I'm going to keep doing what I want to do. So that's why I'm here. I'm here for those that look like me and I love all of you all too. Likewise. Thank you. Thank you all very much and thank you for tuning in this evening to Town Meeting Television's ongoing coverage of local candidates, local budgets and ballot items. You can find this and more forums at www.ch17.tv. Thank you to our candidates, Paul Engels, Tyler Barnes and Lydia Diamond running for City of South Burlington Open Seat to your term. Don't forget to vote on or before March 7th. Ballots are not mailed automatically so please check with your town clerk to request a ballot or make sure to get to the polls on March 7th. Thank you for watching and sharing Town Meeting Television and if you have not already subscribed to our Town Meeting Television and have a very good evening. Thank you.