 Let's see, the breakfast and plus TV Africa, we quickly look at the issue of subsidy and the fact that the Nigerian Employers Consultative Association is in support of fuel subsidy removal as planned by the federal government. The position of the association is that for us to remove fuel subsidy while you deal with the issue of for refineries, if we make for refineries functional, then we have no business important and that we will crush the issue of subsidy totally. This is the position of the Nigerian Employers Consultative Association. Well, they also said that the controversy around subsidy regime is that some have called it a scam organized crime, while the key officials in the OAPS organized private sector and key officials of government also saying that it calls for deep reflection. Well, the boss highlighted that there had been calls for the judiciary to tackle the much debated subsidy issue and recommend that a government revisit the reasons for non-functionality of the country's for refineries. We have turned around maintenance over four times for refineries in the country as big issues and the issue of subsidy and his removal will never end until we get to a point where the refineries are functional or subsidies really remove whatever the case may be. Zaka Bala joins us this morning. It's good to have you join us. Bala. Thank you. All right. I'd like to share your thoughts on this. We're still talking about subsidy and its removal, but do you think that it makes any sense for the government to remove subsidy without the refineries working and the issue of thefts of crude oil with the fact that the pipelines have been vandalized? Which has affected productivity? Thank you for that excellent question. Even when it fix the refineries, I can tell you that subsidy is not supposed to be removed. You see, the biggest mistake we are doing when it comes to this subject of oil and gas, energy source from fossil fuel and the what I call distillates is that a lot of people don't understand how this industry works. Many people don't know anything, but just because people feel they can talk, they just talk out of context and they talk without any experience. Between you and I, many people don't know what subsidy means if they talk like this. That was just what I have recently discovered. A lot of people don't know the difference between deregulation and liberalization. They don't know the difference between commercialization and privatization. So when they keep talking like this, the best thing is just to be very practical when answering them. The people talking to you right now and saying, NECA, would you respect NECA? NECA that is talking now, none of them, none of the guys in NECA, including the person that says subsidy should be removed, ask them a very simple and elementary question. Do they know that subsidy has been removed in aviation, fuel, diesel and QZ? And if they say yes, let them mention one benefit that Nigerians have benefited since the removal of subsidy on the price of diesel. The only thing Nigerians have experienced and benefited is that before the removal of the subsidy, the price of a liter of diesel was 80 Naira. It has been removed now. As of yesterday, a liter of diesel was 800 Naira, meaning that a 25-liter gelical will now cost 20,000 Nigerian Naira. And another thing they need to understand also is this. Because of the removal of the subsidy on the price of diesel, strategic industrial sectors, strategic domestic sectors and strategic commercial sectors have collapsed. That's why print and electronic media, electronic media in particular like yours now, if you go to many states, they do not log beyond 10 o'clock, 10 p.m. They shut down. That is why when you go to banks now, in banks, many banks open at 9 o'clock and close at 2 or 3 o'clock. Is that not affecting productivity? Subsidy has been removed on the price of a diesel fuel. And we now see the flight cancellation and massacre. If you go to all these strategic sectors now, quote me that I said, talk me in context, we'll go down now. Because the source of energy has been affiliated. We remove subsidy on diesel. We remove subsidy on price of agitation fuel. We remove subsidy on the price of K-15. Let them show me one extra development that Nigerians have experienced. The only product remaining now to remove subsidy on is petrol. So when they are saying we should remove subsidy on the price of petrol, is because they didn't know that they have failed to understand that subsidy has been removed on the other three products. The only thing we have experienced is mass increase in prices of diesel. A sachet of pure water that used to be 3 Naira, 5 Naira is now 25 Nigerian Naira. If you remove subsidy on the only product remaining now, quote me today and call the maker people and tell them that I said a price of sachet water will get to 50 Naira or 100 Naira. Let them tell me how development will come to Nigeria. Let them explain to people like me how we will see competitive prices and all those investors that they are saying will come. We have removed subsidy on price of three different products already. Only one product is remaining and investors have not come. So let them show me what they are saying. You see these people are talking from lack of experience. Let me give you one particular example. Apart from the vandalization and crude oil theft, one of the reasons why many oil companies are finding it very difficult to operate is because almost all the drilling weeks, almost all the equipment and tools they use are all on diesel. And the cost of diesel is very expensive. For those who are in Lagos, let them go to Marina. If they go to Marina, almost it are the former NITEL and NITELs. You will see start drilling weeks that are not active because they don't have counter. You will see top posts, you will see vessels. All those vessels are rolling on diesel. And at the cost of 800 Naira per litre, tell me if the owners will break in. Go to hospitals and see what is happening now. If you have a 100 bed capacity hospital, even if they have only five patients, there was one generator, two out the night. If you go to a hotel that is supposed to have 10 guests, I mean 200 guests, even if they have just 20 guests, there was one diesel and generator two out the night. Let me honest, how can they break in? It's the same thing with the industry. Many people do not have experience and they don't even learn the difference between deregulation and liberalization. Zaka Balak, just to ask you, I mean, you are aware of the ongoing fuel scarcity in the country. What's the reason, you are not on gas tax, what's the reason behind this ongoing fuel scarcity? And don't you think that governments right now cannot afford that, let me say deregulation of the downstream sector will be the best way to provide, I mean, a seamless flow supply, unenjoyed supply of PMS. The deregulation was the most irresponsible thing that the government has done or our leaders have done. Why can't they explain what we have gained from the deregulated crisis of diesel aviation and tourism? It's only one problem that is remaining and that is what people don't want to understand. And why you say you need learning for infrastructure? The first thing you need in any country is security first. Why should get security? The next thing is energy and it is the, since we don't have electricity, remember we are a population of about 200 million citizens relying on less than 10,000 megawatts of electricity. How can a country like that develop? And we're talking about a country where government does not provide employment. Their citizens are looking for ways to survive. They need energy and because there is no electricity, they need to now generate energy using generators. And because of the high cost of diesel, the only problem they can run to is they will go and use the petrol. And that's why you go to even big hotel, banks and other places, they have to move to us using petrol. And that's why even the consumption of petrol went high. All the cars we are having now, before now, these basis for transportation, have they been there? It's unfortunate. I mean, if people can't go to their generator tanks, or they can put oil in their car tanks or generator, nobody will go there. And if government can provide electricity, that will be good at the finish station, even in the price of petrol is $15 per litre, many people will not buy. If you go to houses now, because of this coronavirus and you know man, many people have to go and they will generate us. We have to go. Let's have this conversation some of the time. Zakkabala, we appreciate your thoughts this morning. And we're just still hoping that we'll come to a point of compromise as a government. And as a people, Zakkabala is an oil and gas analyst. He joins us from Ibadon. That's the much we can take this morning on the breakfast. Thank you so much for being part of the show. We will return tomorrow, all things spinning core. And it's okay to follow us if you missed out on any part of the conversation or on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel. There's a plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. My name is Messi Bukbo. Have a fantastic morning. My name is Kofi Bartels.