 You're welcome back to the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Our first major conversation is about the Boko Haram insurgency and the big question about who their finances are. Now, on Monday, the United Arab Emirates announced the names of 38 persons who are alleged to be financiers of tourism and 15 agencies. Now, among them are six Nigerians. The names are Abdul Rahman, Addo Musa, Salihu Yusuf Adamu, Bashir Ali Yusuf, Mohamed Ibrahim Issa, Ibrahim Ali Al-Hassan, and Suraj Ababaka Mohamed. Now, these people have been placed on the UAE's watch list. And this is coming a year after the United Arab Emirates indicted them for sponsoring Boko Haram in Nigeria. Now, a Nigerian government official was also said to have been involved in sponsoring the set. But government officials in the UAE are yet to publicly name this particular person. And now, we've invited a security analyst, Mr. Yahuza Geto, to talk about this. Good morning, Mr. Geto. Good morning. How are you? Well, good. Thank you. So six Nigerians on the UAE watch list for Boko Haram terrorism financiers. What's your reaction? Well, the list didn't come to me as a surprise because Nigerian government have already mentioned to publicly. Minister of Information, Lahm Mohamed, in a statement credited to him many times, he made it very clear that they know the finances of the Boko Haram. They know who they are. And they are working out more. They are putting out majors and modalities. So probably the excuse we can give them is that probably they have been working hard to get the justification through investigation and ensure that, yes, of course, and probably they were working in collaboration with other multinational corporations. And it is known to us that some arrests were made, sometimes back in Kano, in some places, within the part of Nigeria, in respect to that. So this didn't come to us as a surprise. Yeah, but do you think that this investigation should have been released or should have been stated by the Nigerian government itself and not the UAE? Yes, of course. Nigerian government was a bit relaxed because they have not done their homework. Had it been they have done their homework, they could have arrested them long before now. The list could have been shared with the international community not to wait until the United Arab Emirates sharing the list and declaring them wanted. This is a slap. It's a diplomatic slap. It's a security slap. And it exposes the weakness of our intelligence. And it also exposes the weakness of Nigeria's investigation procedure. And also it also exposed the weakness of Nigeria's capability in managing situations, especially dealing with issues of criminal and criminality, especially bilateral and multilateral criminals, especially dealing with the issues around the banditry. This have really made it very clear, as we have been saying, that even the bandits within the north central, north west, north east, and all part of the country are known. And the communities know who they are. It's only that government is not doing what is expected to do. That is it. So Mr. Getzo, how can we rationalize a situation where the government claims to know the sponsors of Boko Haram and they refuse to disclose that list to Nigerians? But when you have a security analyst who have confidential information, come out to share that with the media, those people are arrested and questioned. Well, yes, of course. Like I made mention earlier, this have given a kind of a portray of inability and even a question on, do we really have a sovereign government? Is Nigeria really a sovereign state? If we are sovereign state, why didn't we have been clamoring and borrowing money in the name of supporting the security, fighting the insurgency, fighting the Boko Haram, and a huge amount of money, as I've been making it very clear that since independence, there is no government that spent the money to the extent of which the Boko Haram administration spent in respect to security. But yet, there is no result, because this have exposed more that the Nigerian government was, not really there is no political commitment, no administrative commitment. There is no seriousness from the Boko Haram administration. If at all the Boko Haram administration was serious, they could have arrested and even investigated and handed over these guys, if it means that handing them over to an international community for necessary action, or dealing with them decisively, prosecuting them before the court of law in Nigeria and ensuring that the needed things has been done and that could have reduced, couldn't have allowed the number of people that they have been terrorizing. Because it is the financing them that give them the courage and the confidence and the ability to have killed thousands and destroyed a lot of resources and also displaced a lot of communities and so on and so forth. Okay, well, let's, I want to go further with some of the things that you mentioned earlier about the Nigerian government dragging their feet and allowing the United Arab Emirates to put this information forward first. Does that also, because yes, the midst of information has said that they know the sponsors of Boko Haram or terrorism. There's also been talks about a trial of 400 persons. Things is meant to be taking place on the 17th. 400 sponsors of Boko Haram, but all these things still look shrouded in secrecy. Does this slow pace, and the fact that you've described this as the government dragging its feet, does it also then maybe tell you that even now that UAE has put out this list, not much will be done to find these people? And do you agree with those who feel that the Nigerian government has somehow been shielding these persons? Well, I can't agree that Nigerian government have been shielding because they made an attempt. If they didn't make any attempt for making any arrests, then we can say that they have been shielding. But since they have made an arrest and they have made for announcement in several occasions and several many different times that they know the sponsors and they know who they are and they are working out modalities and they have made some arrests like I mentioned in some of the Forex traders. So I think it's a commendable effort, but at the same time, really Nigerian government did not, didn't do what they suspected of them because they could have arrested, detained them and hand them over to international community if it needs be, or deal with them, prosecute them before the court of law in Nigeria and manage them accordingly. But what is really baffling me and any other responsible person is the fact that the arrest has been made for many people by the DSS from the Forex market in Kano and other places. But yet there is no feedback to the community and they have not been prosecuted before the court of law and there is no information whatever about their what about and so on and so forth. So this have really made it very clear that there is no political commitment and we don't have a serious government and we don't have a committed government who is really serious about the life and property and the issue of fighting the insurgency. They are only making policies, but they are not really ready to fight the menace of the insurgency. That is very clear. But to some extent, we are now aware to see what Nigerian government will do probably within a week or within three or four days if Nigerian government could be able to to bring out this list of these guys that United Arab Emirates already listed. Okay, yeah, so that really leads to my next question. You said we need to see what happens in the next few days in the next week. So what really should we expect to see from the government? Should we expect the government, the SSS and other security agencies going on a raid on a hunt for these guys and arresting them? And also what should be the modalities for prosecuting these persons? You mentioned that the government should find them and take them to the UAE. So does that judicial question come in as to where these people should be prosecuted? Would should they be prosecuted in the UAE as is the United Arab Emirates government that have gone ahead to do the investigation to find the names of these people? Or should that be the responsibility of the Nigerian government? And if it's for the Nigerian government, do you trust that the government will do it, do you do the diligence and ensure that this is the case to the end? Well, in this case, I can't trust the Nigerian government actually in that respect. But in the case of who is responsible or who is expected to prosecute them or to deal with them as far as law is concerned, it depends on the agreement, the memorandum of understanding as far as persecution is concerned of criminal, Nigerian criminal found who committed an offense in UAE or who committed an offense in Nigeria or a UAE indigent that who may be committing an offense in Nigeria. So it all depends on what we have on the memorandum of understanding. The memorandum of understanding will be the determining factor. But at the same time, I'm very confident and optimistic that Nigerian government have the low guiding principles as far as legal law is concerned for what to do. So probably after dealing with them, if there is a signed agreement or part of the memorandum of understanding for the bilateral relation and diplomatic relation among other chapters signed by Nigeria and the other conventions international, United Nations Convention and other things, if that be then Nigerian government can hand them over for onward action by the United Arab Emirates because there may be probably some of the Qanaibas within the United Arab Emirates because Nigerians alone cannot be in the United Arab Emirates to commit such a huge offense for Nigeria because it is not only to Nigeria because it has a link with other terror countries like Mali, like Niger, like Libya, like Somalia, like Sudan and other countries where Boko Haram is, so it's a network. So looking at the network, the terrorist behavior and looking at how the network themselves, definitely there must be a Qanaibal somewhere. So there is need to have a kind of bilateral, looking into the bilateral agreement and also looking at the signed convention and looking at the point, bulletin into that in that convention and to see what Nigeria and United Arab Emirates have in the bilateral relation and multilateral relation so that it can be dealt according to the international law. So there's probably an international court of justice need to come in, but at the same time, Nigeria will also have its own law which are probably if they are in Nigeria because yet nobody is sure that these guys are in Nigeria even though it has been made very clear that they are Nigerians. All right, now I want us to now talk about the immediate steps that I expected, talk a little further on the immediate steps that I expected. You know, one thing that has been repeatedly mentioned is the Nigerian government taking action and finding these people, like my colleague here has asked if they would prosecute here in Nigeria or in the UAE. But one thing that people would also question is if these people can actually be found because of course Ndambdi was traced and tracked and eventually found somewhere outside Nigeria. There have been people who have said if you can find him over there, then it shouldn't be difficult to find presidents here in Nigeria and of course a terrorist here in Nigeria. Do you expect that the Nigerian government will be able to trace these six individuals and find where they are and get them arrested? Do you also think that it's important that this is done? Well, I don't think I have that confidence. There isn't been the bandits, ordinary bandits who can not read or write, who don't even know where to take the money after collection, kidnapping, for ransom, whatever. Have given Nigerian government a sovereign state of Nigeria, a so-called sovereign state of Nigeria, an ultimatum. It happens in Kaduna, it happens in Zamfara, it happens in Sokoto, it happens in many parts of the country. So I don't think I have that confidence but Nigerian government can really really have the capability or the willingness to find these guys, arrest them and do the needful. But we will not free-empt the Nigerian security at the same time and Nigerian authority. Like I mentioned, we are giving them out to four, five days. Let's see what will happen between now and next week Monday. Probably if we can Nigerian security can really, so that probably they will rebuild our confidence and regain the lost glory. We hope they can do, but from the experience of what happened in the last seven, eight years, I don't think Nigerian security are really serious and they will really have the commitment and other reasons will really allow them to fish out these guys and do the needful accordingly as immediate as possible. Okay, Mr. Geto, I want us to address what now seems to be a misinformation regarding this situation, this story. So one of the names that the UAE put out was the name Abdul Rahman, Addo Musa. Reacting to this, Nigerians have gone ahead on social media to share pictures of the executive director of regulatory corporate affairs at Nine Mobile, whose name is Abdul Rahman, Addo. So people are saying, oh, this executive director at Nine Mobile is a terrorism financier. They're putting his pictures all over social media and there seems to be like a campaign against him. But Nine Mobile has put out a statement saying that the director, Abdul Rahman, Addo is a respectable law abiding Nigerian who served the country diligently in public service for over three decades and that his name has no Musa in it. His name is just Abdul Rahman, Addo and not Abdul Rahman, Addo, Musa and that the names is purely coincidental, asking Nigerians to disregard that list and understand that it's a case of a mistaken identity. How do you respond to the story? Well, that could be ascertained by only the court of law and also the same Abdul Rahman, Addo. He has, all his documents are available and the United Arab Emirates must have their finger prints and all other required information and forensic investigation will be conducted and then we will get the outcome of that investigation will reveal if the same Addo Musa, Addo or Addo Musa of Mobile is the same person that has been the suspect or the financier or otherwise. Okay, so this can only be revealed by the investigation. So I cannot go into this. Okay, so I also want to ask you about the possibility that these six names that the UAE has released are simply just aliases by these, the real terrorists, names that they have and identities that they have created to cover their tracks. Is that a possibility? So you come again, it breaks the alarm. Okay, I'm saying the UAE has released a list and there are six Nigerians on that list. I called the name earlier on the show. So I'm asking if there is a possibility that these six names are simply aliases, that the actual terrorism financiers are created to cover their tracks. Do you know like I mentioned earlier, definitely they may not be the only six. By the time they are arrested, they are prosecuted. Investigation will reveal, I am very confident and I am very optimistic that there must be others who are working with them, either directly or indirectly. So probably a more local arrest will be made because if these guys are in United Arab Emirates and they are Nigerians, it means that they should be sending the money through Nigerians who are based in Nigeria for onwards, like I keep mentioning, in the case of a banditry in North West, North East and North Central and part of North East, there are armed importers, there are armed transporters, there are armed traders and there are armed distributors. So definitely there must be some other group of people who are responsible for bringing, transporting and moving the money between one hand and another and also responsible for purchasing of arms and movement of the arms. So definitely there must be a part of the intelligence team, maybe a routine personnel within the cycle of the security operatives. There may be, I'm not sure, but there are elements that can give us confidently, we can confidently say that there is selling within the country, not only these five guys. So definitely if the investigation go further, there will be more arrests that will be made locally. If at all Nigerian government will be serious and will give you the right attention required. Okay, Mr. Geto, I'm not talking about if there are other people besides this six. I'm talking about the possibility that these names are fake names, fake identities that were created to cover up the tracks of the real terrorism financiers. Do you think the UAE might have possibly done those due diligence that it found that these are the real identities of the people? All of these are like I mentioned, fake names, aliases that they've come up with. That is very possible, that is very possible. And all this can only be revealed by the result of the investigation. So we have to allow the investigation to take its first before we can justify. And based on the feedback that we get from the investigation team, if at all the serious, there will be a committed and serious investigation team or professional who can do the needful and bring out the feedback. So from there, we can know that probably it is correct or it is wrong. Okay, now let's talk about the 400 that the Nigerian government claims to be sending to trial. This says they say they have 400 names that have been alleged to also be terrorism financiers here in Nigeria, and they should be going to trial sometime this month. Do you think that these names should also remain anonymous? And of course, while until proven guilty, or should the Nigerian government go ahead and share some of these names to the public? Not really, the Nigerian government shouldn't have bring out this list. They should keep it until the result of the investigation is out. Because otherwise, if my name is listed out of the list and a result of the investigation comes out to be negative that I am not part of, or Mr. A, Mr. B, and C are not part of it, then definitely they will take Nigeria into court for blackmail and other things. Well, I guess these persons have already been arrested. It's not just random names that they threw in there. Because if they are going to court. If they are arrested, I don't know anyone of them. Do you know? No, of course not. Do you know anyone of them? Of course not, and that's what I'm asking. So this is what I'm trying to find out. So the same way the UAE has put out these 38 names, the Nigerian government claims to have 400 persons that have been arrested and will be sent to trial for terrorism financing. Do you think that these names should still remain anonymous all through the trial until found guilty? Yes, of course. The list should still remain anonymous. United Arab Emirates has its own reasons, like I said. Usually, in the bilateral relation and multilateral relation, there are certain agreements. United Arab Emirates cannot just say that they have six people. Nigerian government will want to know who they are. An international community will want to know who they are so that they can quickly be prompted into the immigration status, immigration operations at the national and international level, at the bilateral and multilateral level, so that the immigration and other security at the airport and the airport and other transportation and other proceedings will definitely help the United Arab Emirates and Nigeria in first striking and arresting them. But these ones in Nigeria, they are already, Nigerian government have done its homework before they go into the arrest. Okay, Mr. Geto, we know that the UAE has punishment of up to 10 years in prison for those who are found to be involved in terrorism, so we're looking forward to really how this plays out. But lastly, before I let you go, the name Nigeria has been identified as terrorism for too long. And my question to you is, how can we redeem the name Nigeria in the international community? That is when you have a serious government. That is when you have a sovereign government. That is when you have leaders. That is when you have commitment from the leaders, political and administrative will. That is when you fight corruption. That is when you have illegal proceedings. That is when you end the leadership of people who believe in themselves and their immediate family along with their errand boys. Not, and it's only when you have the leaders who believe in Nigeria as a country and who have the passion and patriotism. But right now, presently, that is what is, that is the missing link. We don't have leaders who believe in Nigeria. We don't have leaders who believe in Nigeria sovereignty. We don't have leaders who believe in Nigeria as a country and working towards ensuring that they work for Nigeria, they work for Nigerians, and they work diligently and in accordance with the respect of law and also with respect to the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. We are having something else. We only have geography as Nigeria, but in practice, the constitution of Nigeria is not being respected by our leaders of today and our leaders of yesterday. So until and unless we have reorientation in the outcome of our actions and in actions, that is the time when we will have that. Okay. All right. Yo, how's it going? So thank you very much for your time this morning. It's a very interesting discussion and we'll see where it goes from here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. All right. We'll take a short break. When we come back, we're moving into our next discussion and that is a protest at the United Nations. A couple of weeks ago, we had spoken about this. Yes. It was meant to be a one million- Mine match, yes. And what we're seeing is that European nation agitators have actually gone ahead to protest in front of the United Nations, the General Assembly that they're having in New York and we'll basically talk more about that when we come back from the break. Well, the protests work and how's it going? Stay with us.