 Hello again St. Lucia and welcome to the program, Agriculture on the Move. I am Philip Sidney, your host. Today we are talking about cassava and coconuts. And of course a festival. With me is Mr. Kemuel Jabatis, who is the deputy director of agricultural services in the Ministry of Agriculture. Welcome to the program sir. As always thanks Sidney for having me and let's hope our conversation about cassava and coconuts is going to be enlightening. Very enlightening. I hope so too. And draw massive crowds to our planned up and coming festival. Festival. Definitely. Cassava. A traditional crop grown for many, many years. I can remember my, it doesn't fun days you know, my father used to grow cassava and we used to. Grated. Grated. All your fingernails break up. Tell us about cassava traditionally also as a crop, as an economic crop. So cassava for us has historically been cultivated in the country and so that means that we have traditional knowledge on its cultivation over the years. We've partnered with the Caribbean Agriculture Research and Development Institute, Cardi. We've also partnered with ICANN, other agencies to improve the crop. We've brought in over the years different cultivars to enhance what we have locally. We've also gone out and done a number of trainings in cultivation, the agronomy of the crop. Along with that we have not just only done the agronomy, we've also done value added trainings with agro processors. I remember that one of the major actions that we had recently was with the bakers where we introduced through a project funded under the FU, cassava mash into bread making. So cassava has historically been with us and most of us who are old enough will remember the days of the cauldron or the caron. Those came from the old sugar plantation. These were placed on a furnace and we would be familiar with the heat associated with that and also the stresses associated with the cultivation of, not necessarily the cultivation but the preparation of the harvested crop and the processing of it. Over the years the ministry has partnered with a number of agencies and countries. We've brought in automated grating machines. Some people may remember St. Lucia Rural Enterprise project where through that project VJ, cassava producers got benefits of a facility where the grating was changed from manual to automated. We also had some automated stirring facilities. It is prudent on our part of this time to go back and review these investments and see where they are at and the ones that have not survived and find out what the reasons they have not survived. But the crop has been a crop of focus for the ministry of agriculture for a number of reasons, food and nutrition security, then diversity of food items that can be derived from cassava, both in its natural state as well as its processed form and not only just food but drink as well. When you look at cassava and its resilience to climate change, it's one of those crops that would stand in a dry season of any magnitude and come the rainy season would thrive again. So it is drought tolerant, talk about storms. The only way to lose a cassava crop in the soil is if the entire slope fails and takes everything away. As long as the soil stays, you are guaranteed a harvest. So in terms of its ability to stand changes in climate and diversity of rainfall patterns, cassava is a crop of choice. Along with that, it provides good livelihood security because as long as it's established, the farmer can hope whether it's six months or even a whole year plus later, he or she could go back in there and find a harvest and that harvest would mean money for them if they do trade the crop or food on the table if they decide to use it for home consumption. And then you take cassava to the next level of agro processing where you have a whole bunch of other users and persons involved in the process who could process it into diversity of products. And so yeah, for the ministry, it has been a crop of choice and a crop of focus for many, many years, perhaps decades I might say. We've made significant investments. We're at a place where we're not reintroducing, but we're hoping to refocus, particularly the taste buds of the young ones and up and coming youngsters, so that we do not lose that legacy of the crop that we've developed over the years. Especially the resilience of that crop growing, the particular areas where it's going to grow. Yes, yes, yes. And soils that are in soils, you know, and remember up in Moshi, you know, in Labon, these coastal areas where you struggle if there's not sufficient soil moisture, your traditional vegetables and root crops may not thrive, but this particular root crop will thrive in areas like Labon, in areas like Louvert or Oleon, in these Jaya areas, and if you go in places like Taitmuan and Monlaiza in Choselle, where there's a transition from the coast to the higher lands, you'd see amazing results from the production of cassava, places like Cacou Vigée, all of those areas where it's sort of arid, a bit of stones and so on, but the crop has the ability to thrive under these conditions and provide a harvest that will contribute to livelihoods for agro-processing and a whole set of forward and backward linkages in agriculture. And people will remember Oslavedi, in fact, you know, I mean, I remember when I was in Charter Ridge in 7, I went across that area and there were persons with the little tables by the roadside. That's right, that's right. And cassava, I wanted to bring them together again, like Cacou Vigée and the other places. And I wasn't able to do that, but Joan Henry, that's where plus cassava emerged, you know. That's right. Amrose and Mithil from Seidu, we worked with her and she had a little half platinum at the bottom of the hill. That's right. Her daughter called Yanni and those two worked that place and look at it today. And today it has become a place that is, let me say, yeah, it's an experience. Yeah, and sadly, she just passed, she was buried last week. Wow, Meshiris. You know, Meshiris did this. I want to wish her a good… And the family as well. …and the condolences. Yeah. But the children are resilient, I mean, they continue with it, you know. So cassava is economically grown and is viable, but the point is, again, the reason for going to this festival is to really, what's next? Yeah. You know, we have done a lot of work. I know there were challenges, I know there were marketing challenges, I know the Cacou Vigée people were selling, you know, to a machnik, but Martin was not paying them, so they lost that trust. Yeah. What's his name? Moshi. Yeah. In Abon. Yeah, in Abon. You know, that guy was doing the same thing. But he had problems with Rogens. Rogens, that's right. Yeah, he had problems with market in terms of the cost of exporting, you know. So I don't know. So what do you think the ministry can do now moving forward? One of the things about cassava mostly, well, every primary product is that if you're going to take it to the next level, which is fully commercializing it, you have to pay attention to an associated cost. So we are producing it, but it's being produced on marginal lands. There's a cost associated with producing the crop. When you're going to look at scaling up agro-processing and bringing it into the package, like everything else, like the plant and chips in the package, it requires a certain volume. And because of the opportunity cost of our lands, persons are putting some of the lands into cassava, but it's not the quantum of land required to produce the volumes that massive agro-processing would require. For those persons who have been fortunate to go to Taiwan and some of these Asian countries, you'd see a lot of cassava products. They have cassava flour, they have cassava chips, and there are some parts of the world where all of these products are readily available. The challenge for us is how do you work with this? You have limited primary products. You require a certain level of volumes in terms of setting a plant and equipment. There's a cost to plants and equipment as capital investment. So that's where we are challenged as a small island developing state. So for the most part, our investments have been highly subsidized through government projects and associated nations. But we do have a challenge scaling up when you look at the quantum of raw material available. If you ask the Capsar people, they've had to resort to try and accessing it in Guyana and some other states. And that's just because the emphasis for the farmers sometimes, they do have some of the crop but it's not sufficient for you or any agro-processor now to rely on the supplies. So again, like anything else, if it means that we need to outsource some of the raw materials from our partner countries within the region, whether it's from Belize or Guyana or one of the larger territories where the land space is available, maybe that's what we need to look at and set a plant and equipment down here in order to process it. But the same thing happened with when FAO came on board and they came down here with a master beaker. Yeah. They trained the beakers in St. Lucia. Yes. Many of the beakers were doing the cassava bread. All right. Alma was doing it. That's correct. And Bruce Beakery in V.S. That's right. That's right. And people were buying it. Yes. But availability. It was a 40% cassava mash and 60% flour. That's right. And people were buying it. It was a little more expensive. Mm-hmm. Yes, these birds were gravitating towards that. Yes, definitely. Yeah. And then the issue became availability. Now it's availability. They cannot get mash. Yeah. So it's one of the areas, perhaps again, it may seem as a challenge, but it's an opportunity because we do still have lands available, particularly the marginal lands, which as a ministry and as a country, we probably need to look at what the opportunities are in terms of plowing up those lands and giving people access to grow these specific crops. The unfortunate thing is sometimes you try to do that and then folks put in everything else except what it is that you intend to do. So along with that sort of programming, there needs to be regulations to determine, you know, how to help people to stay focused as a country. Definitely. Now you have a sister crop. A crop. A crop. You know, there was a symbiotic relationship. Yes. But once you have cassava, you have coconuts. Yes, yes. The pony's coconuts. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. So let's look at our coconut industry. Yeah. We have been around for many, many moons. We had coconut factories to fray, you know, soaps being made, all has been made. Where which of them for coconut industry, bro? The coconuts have continued to thrive in our country. Over the years, again, the Ministry of Agriculture has made investments and the more recent ones would be the investments made in trying to introduce some new cultivars that didn't go really well for a number of reasons and that's one of the show. But we have also seen some other cultivars emerge within the farming community and these have shown great potential. One of the things that has happened to our coconut industry along with the challenges that the coconut factory and that massive process I had at the time, we've seen a shift from actual dry nuts, emphasis on the production of dry nuts to emphasis on production and consumption of the water nuts, what we call the water nuts or coconuts with the jelly in it. I don't have a figure off the top of my head, but I can safely say that we're marketing or consuming tens of thousands of these coconuts every year around this country. And so this is the direction it has shifted into. So what it has done, we have as a Ministry shifted emphasis away from the tall varieties that was focused on producing a nut that has a heavy flesh to some of the dwarf varieties with a more emphasis place on the volume of water within each one of these nuts and so and also for ease of picking when you look at the issue of the dwarf. So it is a crop of focus for us, but again the emphasis has shifted from just processing dry coconuts into oil and I call it the essential oils, the virgin coconut oils and so these are still in cottage industry type format, but the emphasis, the huge emphasis is on the water nuts. You know I can go back a bit and remember as a kid, I know in the rural areas people used to make gagesh and we used to sell these things first to buy your school books. A lot of these cases today do not know that and that was a thriving cottage industry in the rural areas. Yeah, when you look at coconuts, I mean you have a number of things coming out there's extensive use made for the cosmetics industry, extensive use. Then you have issues that the health and wellness part of it. The reason why people are consuming so many nuts is because of all the electrolytes and a number of other things people who are going into fast things and so on that's the drink of choice, the athletes. Then you look at the culinary arts. There's so many dishes that could come out of it. You have your mappa, you have your coconut milk. As I mentioned mappa, I'm salivating when we do for our break. Alright, you're watching our reculture and the move. Stay tuned and don't go away. Now I think I need a shy entertainment from the best. Team Blacks, Ocean, King Arthur, Ompa, Invader, Ezra, Livon Silly and lots more. Food and drinks will be on sale, kids' corner available and the admission is totally free. So it's a nice day for the family. Like I need a local coconut milk man. So let's rebuild the cassava and coconut industry, the cassava and coconut festival, Sunday August 27th. Yes, so we're talking about counseling, they only go back, way back with the coconuts. You know, and the traditionally, you know, climbing coconuts as youngsters, you know, I remember all beating your heads. Yes sir, yes sir. You know, but this was the tradition and coconuts have gone a long way. Like I said, we had the factory in Soufreq, you know, but there's still the cottage industry right now. You know, people are doing the virgin coconut oil now, they're doing the traditional oil. And there's so many derivatives coming from the government. So again, I know the ministry has gone a long way in getting new varieties, like you mentioned a while ago, for water nuts. And I believe we need to step up a bit. We have to take, I mean the ministry, you and the ministry, we need to do what we have to do. Yeah, absolutely. Because here it is, like we were speaking earlier, Offset, it's one of those crops that has featured really well in terms of a plantation mix crop. As long as it's coconut to establish, they emerge, they provide space for everybody else, all the other crops to strive, particularly cocoa and some of those that require shade. And so it has established itself well in the country. We also mentioned its benefit as a climate change resilient crop. I mean, these trees bend, they twist, they do all kinds of stuff. It takes perhaps a category four or five to snap a coconut tree. So when we talk about climate resilience, it's one of those crops. But going back, way back when, over the years, we've shared the same challenges with the Pacific and some of these countries. And so they've established and developed and established a number of mechanisms that can be used or devices that can be used for climbing up coconut trees. And if a person wants it, they could use it. I remember one time when we started using those Lucille electricity pool, climbing things and we had to dissuade farmers from using it because every time they went up the trees, they were destroying the floam and xylem vessels, the vessels that helped to feed the coconuts. And so we had to discourage people and ask them to move away from using those. But there's a wide cross-section of tools and devices that can be used. You mentioned very quickly the wide cross-section of products. The arts and crafts as well. For those persons who remember, it was the arts and crafts centre. Or even castries market, when you go in there from the dry nut, you see an assortment of products that are intended to attract out. The guys by the beach. Those by the beach. So all of these are talking a number of things. It's talking livelihood opportunities. It's talking about livelihood security. It's talking about returns for farmers. It's talking returns for everybody else. So that is why the crop has remained a crop of focus for us. Both for food and nutrition security, livelihood security, climate change, resilience, to mention some of the more important and focal areas. But do you think the Ministry should look now at rehabilitating and establishing new fields? It's not a matter of now. It has been part of our programme over the years in terms of because it's the crop that you don't necessarily have to wait till the crop goes moribund. Your coconut tree gets to a certain height that you know along a comfortable climbing. You put a younger tree and as soon as that tree gets to a stage of bearing, you cut off the old tree. So that kind of thing has been advocated and promoted for the advisory services of the Ministry over the years. And it's something that we need to continue to advocate. What we need to be cautious about is to ensure that we have diversity of cultivars, not just focus on the water nuts or those for the freshwater market, but also keep in mind that the persons want to produce the oils. And from those oils we had margarine, we had all the... So persons remember the bomber soap and all those things coming out of the souffle. We have to ensure that we do not put too much emphasis on the emerging markets and forget that there are markets that are constantly utilising the raw material and ensure that in the establishment and so on that we have the crop readily available. One of the things that recently emerged, I think is a weevil, I can't remember the name, the palm weevil and thanks to our drone team while they were doing the regular drone reconnaissance, it was noted that at a particular location on the island where there was a plantation with a few hundred trees that a number of the trees had died out and the die was an apical dieback. And upon closer examination it was determined that there is this coconut palm weevil that is actually killing from the top. I can't remember the full scientific name of the top of my head, but if anyone wants to know the information, we could always call us at the ministry. And so we have come to recognise that these pests, they are not new, but they are arriving at our shores, which places even greater emphasis for persons who probably wish to bring in nuts or to even bring cassava sticks. So always please stick with the regulations of checking with the quarantine people, checking with the plant protection people to ensure that you are bringing from countries that have been declared disease-free and that sort of stuff because it only takes one bad nut really to destroy an entire plantation. Do you remember the coconut mite? Yes, the coconut mite has found itself, has made itself indigenous now, it has established itself. So what we've done over the years now is to avoid planting some of the cultivars that are highly susceptible, like the yellows and so on, that attract them. We go more for those with the browns and so on. But again, just to put this emphasis on persons who are travelling to pay attention and avoid bringing in foreign planting material of any sort, but in this case we're talking cassava and coconuts, to minimise the risk of introducing any further pests or disease problems that could potentially annihilate the crops. Definitely, we'll continue to speak about the coconuts and the cassava, but one of the things I think that drove the ministry going into the festivals is to showcase what can be derived from a lot of the crops that we grow. And we had a mango festival and that went very well. We had a banana festival, we had a seamos festival. We even had roots and tubas in a few years ago. That's correct. And up on the 27th, we have the cassava and coconut cluster coming on. And why you do not believe the number of persons that have been calling? Yes, yes. And only now I'm finding out the modest stuff that's out there. And for me, what I really want to do is to showcase a little person in the community, bring her out, to showcase what she is doing in her community. Expose, market, work with her, maybe labeling and stuff like this together, marketing you need to work with them. And that's what we want to do. And that is the reason why we are having all of these festivals. So the coconut festival and cassava festival, again, it was distinct, it was deliberate having the two together. Yes, because of the number of uses that they are put together. Together, yes. So when you talk poons, that's cassava and coconut. When you talk our local cassava bread, that's cassava and coconut as well. And to mention a few of the mixes. So yeah. So we are going to have this activity in Miku on the playing field. Yes, yes. And so far, I have already registered about 30 persons that are going to participate. And showcase what they have. And they keep calling. Yes. Around the island as far as Shua Zai. And that's the 27th, that's two Sundays to come. You know, and we are hoping to start at 10 o'clock officially. Okay, there's official ceremony. Okay, and from there, people can go in and view the various products. I mean, unfortunately, we don't have the many schools participating, but we have the schools from Miku. And one of the schools participating, my brother, I can tell you, you have seen what they do. You know, I'm looking forward for the Miku school to see what they will come up with this tomorrow. But you have players, yeah, you don't have to mention. You have players like distillers and so on. You know, there's so many products that are derived from liquors and all these kinds of stuff. Exactly, exactly. And then I remember from the cassava, you know what I like? What do you call them? Mushas? Mushas, yeah. I'm Bobo Mushas. Bobo Mushas. I know the Ministry of Health will put a big question at us because actually, the Bobo Mushas is actually the starch extract from the cassava after it has been grated and processed and squeezed out. And so you can imagine that is essentially a hardcore starch. Hardcore starch. Now, back in the days, it was not too much of a problem because everybody went to carry bananas and carry this, and they went to the river to wash and everything. But now, our lifestyles have changed. Yeah, I'm not sure. What do you consume? We consume it in large. But for the sake of the historic and cultural traditions, it's one of those things that we need to ensure that we remind our people that these were some of the things that we consumed. These were some of the foods that we consumed. And it didn't cost an arm and a leg, and it was all local. Definitely. And one of the things I'm believing that the festival is going to do is to re-engage the taste palates of our youngsters in particular. To remind the old that you don't get to fancy on us there with all your condis and corn nuts. We have ours. We have ours. And to remind and ask you to encourage the young ones in the coconut tarts, the coconut tablets, confetti. Yes, exactly. So the young ones now can go back and say, I did not know this existed. Exactly, exactly. And this is what I really want. That festival was to be a showcase. And not only that, we're having the culinary aspect of it too. That's right. So we have food courts. And the food court is going to show you the map. Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. I'm looking forward for that. You know, so a lot of the cassava, if I'm trying to get them to use the cassava root as a root crop, as a yam. Yes, yes, just as in its, in its, in its, yeah. In its, in its, in its regular form, you know. So, coming on that day, it's a family day. That's right. Coming at 10 o'clock. Coming from the Hungry stomach. Hungry stomach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your kids are going to be taken care of. With the MZ songs. Yeah, yeah, they're going to be taken care of because there's going to be a chizol. So there will be the trampoline and the whole stuff going to be there. So the kids are going to be taken care of. But the adults will be taken care of because we have, we have entertainment right through our lives. I don't know. I have the East Coast string band, House and Lucille Steel Pan. I have Quixi. I have Livon Silly. All the way. I have Oshun in Vila. T-Blax. Alpha. You know. Mowgli. General Bix. Much as a Blamato. Yeah, man. Umpah, Stage 8. You know. And will it, will it it it? So we have a, a job session. The next line up coming up. The thing, it's a next line up. It's a next line up. And the whole idea, you know, is while you were there, you know, you, you, you were. And experiencing, yeah. Experiencing. You can take in entertainment at the same time. That's it. You know, and we're looking for it for this. And at the end of the day, I'm hoping that somebody out there, you know, will get a market. Yeah. You know, right. Locally, maybe Massey or some markets. And also we will be able to work with them from our end, from the marketing standpoint to, to upgrade the standards. Yeah. You know, work with, with, with Sidhu. At the, at the labeling. Because I remember we had an exhibition where we went overseas, we went to Martinique. Mm-hmm. And then Baron Fools went along with us. Yeah. And Baron Fools, the two Baron Fools, his labeling was, was, was not ready. Mm-hmm. And they told him what to do. And from that time, he did that. Yeah. Next level. Worldwide. World renowned. You, you, you understand. World renowned. So at the end of the day, we need to work with our people. Yeah. And I believe we, we, and we have the, the, the technical know-how. Mm-hmm. You know, and we need to. But my thing now is production. Yeah. We need the production of raw material. Yeah. And I believe for the, to encourage that we, of course, over the years working with our partner agencies, including Cardi, we do have tech packs for both crops, for both cassava and coconuts. So if a person wants to get in there, we have information that we can share with you as to how you started off. Mm-hmm. From seed all the way to getting it into the harvesting. I think the ministry does have a recipe book. Yes. That has, that has extensive recipes on both cassava, more on cassava, I'm sure, I'm absolutely sure. Less perhaps on coconuts. But, you know, we're, we're hoping that these will be available at the, at the, at the, at the festivals so that persons could take some of those and, you know, create some specialty dishes at your house when you have family functions. Definitely. We're hoping the caterers will pick up some of these as well and include, you know, I've been to places where part of the, the desserts and so on is, is roasted coconut. Yes. Or you have the roasted coconut. Yes. It's a place as a topping on your ice cream. Mm-hmm. You know, these kinds of things, it seems small but when you have it across the board it's going to create. We'll have some ice cream. Yeah, we'll have some ice cream. Wonderful. Wonderful. So there'll be an array of dishes that will be exposed on different derivatives. So Camilla asked me about to end the program. Can you, do you have any final words for us? Yes. Well, I'm looking forward to and encouraging all the solutions to come out in large numbers to the, propose to the planned festival rather 27th of August. For those persons who want to get involved in the production of either one of the crops, the ministry has a wealth of information, tech packs and of course a technical support services team that will help you to get involved in terms of the production of the crop. If their persons are interested in terms of agro processing and so on and the standards that are required, you could also find that information at the ministry and their persons will be able to assist in getting involved. So we're looking forward to a number of things, enjoying ourselves there but also do some other things and helping to refocus attention on these particular crops, cassava and coconut. Thank you very much for this few last words and thank you very much again. You've been watching Agricultural Moves. Thank you for being the program. And remember, agriculture is our business and do not forget the 27th cassava and coconut festival. I'm Philip Sidney. Goodbye. Agriculture on the move. Agriculture on the move. Agriculture on the move. Agriculture on the move. Agriculture on the move.