 Our next speaker is, would be Sacha Rohn, food chemistry professor at the Technical University in Berlin, who unfortunately fell ill and cannot join us today. There will be a recorded session posted after the conference by Sacha Rohn though and this brings us to our next speaker, Samuel Giovanno, who coordinates the CRCF-SRL which provides R&D for the silver team, a Tannin producer. And the project aims to produce food-grade Tannins as microbiome modules for food or supplement ingredients, creating functional products for the silver team to market. So thank you Samuel Giovanno for joining us and the floor is yours. Thank you, thank you for the nice introduction. So I present the activities made in the project. I would say something really close to the market, I hope, at the end of the project or even later. So during the project, this has been the activities made. This picture is summarizing all the activities where we produce something that were capsules or samples stuff to take samples, biscuits and so on to test these Tannins in food. First of all, we select Tannin extract and we have done this in the first part of the project and the selection has been made on the activity that these Tannins has on the gut microbiota. After that have been developed some cereals foods to enrich with Tannins and or riboflavin that as soon as testers felt riboflavin, riboflavin has been removed from the recipe, but at the end we personalize, we produce personalized foods with Tannin inside. And at the end, we made some biological, I mean tested the biological effect of these foods on gut microbiota. So first of all, selection of Tannin has been made the Tannin production using the raw material and procedures and process in the lab that are allowed in food industry for to produce this kind of product and for to apply that in the food sector. And for instance, Tannins are used for wine production, for beer production and are used in a lot of other industries in centuries without any big concern. So we felt quite, quite, let's say, safe to use this kind of product in our project. Have been evaluated in vitro affirmation and has been evaluated the biological activities, have been shown that Tannins added into the diet, into the in vitro test increased the short chain fatty acids in the microbiota metabolism. And finally, we produce some samples to try during the project. These are the raw material that we tested from chestnut food, kibirachi food, tarapods, gold nuts, and of two types of gold nuts. We made a supplementation phase on the first group of volunteers with these capsules. We had funny time making capsules with drug inside. Placebo and so on. Four weeks supplementation of these stunning capsules and the analysis of microbiota functionality on the subject, on the volunteers. In particular, there has been found the correlation between this supplementation on the certain bacteria species, good for health, and the production of short chain fatty acids. The results have been presented in a couple of congress, this one in Parma regarding food bioactives and health, and the other one in London regarding the International Conference Polyphenols and Health. And the results of the first part of the project have been presented there. Here, in particular, the results has shown that encapsulated tanning with pectins and other polysaccharides do not have some advantage at the end on the tanning itself. We made some nice case, let's say, for to present this kind of product that are a powder product in a little bottle to some conferences, to these two conferences, just to promote this kind of product to the industry participating there and also to the academic present there. Another publication has been done showing the results of the project, the antioxidant pros on the metabolism of this product based on tanning and how to analyze these in volutees and these have been published. For the intervention in children have been produced some cocoa biscuits and breadstick with tanning inside and have been evaluated some the results with this metaclinic test. In this intervention phase, tanning is a product that has been added into the daily portion at 240 milligrams for the children intervention. This has been a quantity of biscuits and breadstick produced. Another intervention has been made a recipe of personalized food supplements with four products, let's say two, pre-app and post-app and relative placebo product and have been provided by one partner. Has been developed also another product for general well-being based on the tanning used before in the food here in the food supplements. Tanning used here were the same, the same used in the previous intervention phase on food product and have been evaluated the sensory effect of these food supplements. So these are quite nice results, but from the industrial point of view, I mean I see the industrial point of view we would like to go on the market to sell this concept, to sell these results and product at the end. But the way is not so fast, I mean it's not so easy to put on the market something new, especially related to our health, our, and it's correct I think. So first of all, regarding the production plant, Silva Team is a partner of CRCF that is partner in the project. From Silva Team point of view has been adopted some procedure to produce this product in the production line, has been adopted some procedure, HACCP plan. From a regulatory point of view, tanning extract need to be considered as a novel food, so need to be registered as a novel food, so a dossier is needed before to enter on the market. The novel food dossier is made by several parts, one is the production process, another are toxicological studies, et cetera, et cetera. Toxicological study has been already made showing that these products are safe in this dosage. After that we need to submit the dossier to EFSA and we need to start a discussion with EFSA in order to have the final authorization as a novel food. We are thinking about tanning as a family with some member inside because the authorization will be for botanical species. So as I show you, botanical species where we extract tannings are several, we need several dossier at the end, one from Chestnut, another one from Tara, another one from Sumac, Sumac, Golnut, et cetera. But nevertheless, every one of these substances has in common that are polyphenols so makes sense to make a family covering all these substances. From a commercial point of view, we need the brands and logo and value proposition but here we have colleagues of Silver Team that are ready to go on the market and just need the authorization from the EFSA, from the dossier and that is not so easy, as you can imagine. But in the meantime, we try to make you happy. We prepare biscuits, cocoa biscuits. This is a recipe we used with tanning mixture used before in the intervention. These biscuits are available here outside in our future coffee break. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone can take one. For every bag contain four biscuits and these four biscuits contain the daily dosage used for the children intervention. So any one of us is not children anymore so you can eat safely. Yeah, you can take two. The amount of tanning inside is not possible to feel because it's so low. I mean, tanning is astringent, are very astringent in general as every polyphenols. But the amount here for every biscuit, there are 60 milligrams of tanning added. And 60 milligrams is less than what you can perceive. As I say, this amount of the total tanning inside the bag is what we used in the intervention of children and we used in the adult intervention, 330 milligrams so 50% more than this. Do not eat if you cannot eat something with wheat flour or with butter or yes, because they're full of calories and full of butter, full of eggs, et cetera, sugars. But they are tasty. So these are available outside. Thank you very much to all of you. We hope to be able to propose these to the market as soon as possible for the moment, just for you. Thanks, I'll have one after that session. So do you have a timeline on when we can get our hands on those? Will they be distributed online? I don't know, what are the plans? Two years, yeah, because as soon as normally the EFSA time when the dossier is provided to them is around two years, where we are quite ready to submit the dossier. So I suppose two years and something, yeah. So we will need to stay excited for quite some time more. Any questions from the audience about? Maybe one year, but yeah. You will try. Something is quite complicated, the negotiations with EFSA. Trying to prove that at the end, tannins are a kind of biotic compounds that are spread across the different vegetables. We are eating every day. So it's not, I mean, something new, the extract, but at the end, they are products that we have, of course in the different foods we have, not already used, as you said, for the production of beer, wine, or whatever. So that's the difficulty. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit more here to explain the people that also the production of tannins is sustainable under the point of view. Because it's quite important, I mean, because of, it's another discussion, but I think you could explain them the sources of the tannins. Thank you for the question. Is water extraction at the end, just as for coffee making process or tea that you put raw material, vegetable raw material, in hot water, and you extract the water with polyphenols inside, you evaporate the water, and you keep the polyphenol, the dry matter that is polyphenols. If you extract that from tea, is very rich in polyphenols, not so convenient from economical point of view, produce tons of these polyphenols that are, there are other raw material that are more convenient from economical point of view, just for the concentration of polyphenols. That's why there are companies that produce polyphenols, this kind of tannins from chestnut food or kebrachowood, just because this contains a lot of amount of these polyphenols. Yes, but nevertheless, polyphenols are part of our diet from ever, from apple peels or grapes or wines or fruits, any fruits contain a lot of polyphenols inside. Yes, one more question from the audience. Thank you. Just a question, because when we try to use the tannin biscuits to children, we've heard some complaints from our gastroenterologist who said that tannins for children may be not so healthy because there is always a cut off from how much they can eat. I'm not aware of this limit, but did you perform any toxicological experiments, research in children because you will need that if they go to the market, they will ask you for that. Yes, absolutely. The required studies are related on the daily amount that is possible to eat without any problem. And the test that has been required for to register needs to show something like 50 times more higher. Okay. That it has no effect on, well, the toxicological studies are not on humans, are on mice, on rats, but the standard studies are like that. We prove that this product are not concerned, as not concerned about toxicological studies. So, yeah. I think another point could be the taste. Yes, I understand. So it's for that that we already made some studies looking for the maximum level of this kind of product in food, in food material in general. For example, in the fruit joys or in biscuits or in yogurt, finding that the maximum dose depends also on flavor that you are, because the cocoa flavor is something that cover the polyphenols. I mean, polyphenols help some taste to be more tasty, let's say, yeah, but... Next, we have a question from our online viewers. And that is, today we heard that ultra-processed food causes our today's health problems is promoting such projects, products appropriate to solve health problems. Well, I think that Tannins, I'm referring to the slide that Jose Angel presented before, Tannins are present in the natural diet. So just extracting this component of natural diet put in the processed food is no bad at the end because you provide something that become from the nature in the processed food. So it means something like produced processed food, even if there are processed food, have something from their natural composition. Let's say, more similar to the natural composition. I don't know if... Yes, and then we had a question from the audience. In the back. It's not really a question, but this presentation is more related to the end-using of the Stance for Health. And for sure, the Stance for Health aim was clear to all the eye diet app, but I think it's very important to highlight that there are also several other products developed by the companies among the Tannins, which Samuel and the very good pointed, but what I want to highlight that also is part of the Stance for Health project. Several tangible products which are really close to market and or already on the market have been developed. I think there are more than six or eight, we in BioZone together with the partner Centiv, we have developed four powder-based products. So those are tangible results of the project. And as was speaking before, what can research do better? I think one of the answers shall be that we speak about food ingredients. We shall not always go only to the medical point of view, but we shall also go to the industry, because the industry is the one who brings that on the market. And this is what we have managed quite well. One product which I want to highlight here, which was developed, it is a supplement for elderly, which we even managed to put all the vitamins and minerals, which can be prescribed by a doctor. So we go beyond the budget boundary, because that can be prescribed by a doctor, at least in Germany. So one product like that, and that can also sustain completely. Do you also like to phrase a question out of this? Yes, no, I didn't want to say, I said on the beginning, I do not have a question, but we spoke a lot in this conference about research. I think it is fair to highlight also then the role of the end users, because we are eight companies here. So that's why I want to make sure that it's clear in the conference that inside the Stance For Health project, we have about eight tangible products which have been developed. Okay. Then let's... Question only. Question, okay. I see some interesting point. Do you want to take it? No, I don't want to promote chocolate cookies for as healthy, let's say, because tiny inside, but yes, this was just an occasion to put some project results in something, please, and for everyone. Yeah. So, yes, with reference to the EFSA Nobel food dossier, congratulations, you're a brave man. How many resources are you going to dedicate for that, roughly? I mean, internal resources, personal ones, maybe external resources, lawyers, additional tests. Do you have a rough understanding how much that will be? I have no clear idea because a lot of them are outside the company. And, but internally, I think one and a half for to put together information about process, production process and the composition information and so on is not easy, but it's a hard job at the end. From external point of view, there are three laboratories that collaborated to give results, to give a result to the toxicological studies. One more for the composition where one very skilled laboratory, but one because has been selected after four has been tested before. So, it's not easy to reply to your question, but nevertheless, it's a hard job to present the dossier to EFSA. I'm really curious, are we here in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or what would you estimate? What people? No, no, no, internal resources, person, mums. Money, money in total. We estimated 200,000 euro for every substance. Substance mean botanical origin, botanical origin. So, if we are talking about two, yes, two per, yeah. Okay, good luck. So, yes, also good luck for me for the certification process. Thank you, Samuel Jels. Thank you. Giovano, we're out of time, so we can't take more questions. Thank you.