 Hey everybody, today we're dialoguing on the Black Pill and we're starting right now. With our in-sale guest, Nate's opening statement, thanks so much Nate for being here, the floor is all yours. Thank you, James. Hi, my name's Nate. I go by poopy man's online. It's just a gamer tag, don't worry about that. That's not why I'm an in-sale. When I came on here, I was worried I was going to have to defend the right pill and stuff. Thankfully I don't. I don't buy into that stuff. I'm an in-sale by definition, specifically. I think there's some problems within the community and it has been claimed by those people, but by definition, it's more like people like me and you can be a girl too, being an in-sale. It's the problems with it, sorry. There are some problems with people getting into relationships more and more recently, it's not specifically because we're genetically inferior, it's more systemic issues such as people being raised easier through when they have more money, they get to have more about the talk with relationships, they don't have to worry about having a job and stuff and selling themselves is hard. It's sorry, it's just first time I haven't rehearsed a couple of times, I'm just shy. I think that's mainly all I wanted to say, I yield my time. You got it. Thanks for being here, Nate. We're going to kick it over to Nama and want to let you know folks, today is more of a dialogue, so it's more exploratory. Our guests will kind of feel it out in terms of what positions they hold and maybe that they want to add something or subtract something in terms of the positions they hold. Just want to let you know that as well as, we're going to kick it over to Nama for opening statement as well and both of our guests are linked in the description and that includes if you're listening to Modern Day Debate via the Modern Day Debate podcast, we put our guest links in the episode description box for the Modern Day Debate podcast as well. With that, Nama, thanks for being here and the floor is all yours. Thank you. So like Nate, I guess I don't have a clearly defined position as far as being for or against the black pill. So I guess that probably puts us in a good position to talk with each other. I talk to incels, I listen to incels a lot on my podcast called incel, which I'm not going to pitch too feverishly as it is linked. And so I'm pretty familiar with the content of various incel beliefs or ideologies, though many incels themselves would say that the black pill is not an ideology and certainly not a coherent one and incels aren't a monolith. And I think that that's true. So it's been described to me as a collection of studies basically that kind of confirm a certain point of view and studies are studies, right? Their data, a lot of it comes from dating apps and from social media, as well as kind of evolutionary psychology theories that are just that their theories. And some of its sounds, some of its less sounds, some of it I think is just it's while it's right, it's more a reflection of certain societal trends than it is of human nature. And I just think that sometimes it's kind of like missing the forest for the trees. You know, these things are true to an extent, but to give sort of a mathematical formula for what happens as a result of factors A, B or C. I think that, you know, life and human behavior is a lot more here than that. There's a lot more sort of gray areas. And those are important to consider when, you know, making your way in the world. So, yeah, basically, I just think it's more nuanced than that. That's all. You got it. Thank you very much, both of you. And so just to you say, clarify for anybody who might be new to the topic of incel or the black pill, if either of you wants to define it in particular, you could say the core tenets of incel and whether or not you're sympathetic toward any of them. And we'll kind of see, and like I said, just kind of feeling this out, whether or not there's any actual disagreement. And so I'll kick it over to you for the open discussion, but do want to let you know, folks, we are absolutely thrilled for many upcoming debates here. For example, the bottom right of your screen, de-platform or debate, controversial topics such as the black pill, that debate between Tom Jump and Demon Mama will be next Monday. You don't want to miss it, folks. So do hit that subscribe button and that notification bell as it's going to be epic next Monday. And so with that, we'll jump into the open dialogue. And so as mentioned, incel and a nutshell, if you guys are willing to kind of define it for those who might be new to it. Yeah, I can define it pretty easily. There's two different definitions. The main, either you mean involuntaries a little bit as just someone that wants to have sex, but can't, or you mean the community of involuntary celibates that were subscribed to the subreddit, such as the red pill or the black pill. Those two have two very different connotations on part of the first half, not the latter. When you're in the second half, there is a legitimate problem of radicalization to harmful ideas. It's the best way to describe what they believe is like they're like black KQK members. I think that they are the they're genetically inferior. They can't get a date because of their chin structure and all this weird stuff. I it's not good. Oh, you can talk. Take it from there. OK, sure. Yeah, so that's that's a really important distinction, I think, but needs to be made is is someone in incel and voluntary celibate, meaning they meet the criteria and even that has there's some dispute over what the criteria are. You know, according to some people, it's inability to have a sexual or romantic relationship for a certain amount of time, you know, six months or more, for instance, for some people, it's ever for some people that are a bit more, I guess, purist about it. You have to be a virgin, you know, to be an incel. Some people believe that only straight men can be incels. Some people believe that it can be women, too, et cetera. So so there's that there's just that sort of basic criteria as you define. And many people would fit into that definition, including almost everyone under a certain age, right? If we go by that definition. The other definition is another one that has gradients, I would say, and I think you rightly described it as a community, whether you belong to the community of incels, which generally means you participate in one of the four either sort of incels. Is or some of the subreddits, though, most of those have been banned by now or love shy or forever alone, et cetera, et cetera. And in my opinion, that's a community or a self identification, you know, someone who sort of self identifies that way. But even people that do, even among that group, there are those that are more kind of fanatical about it and take it in a darker direction to where they believe that it really is a sort of lack of fate and immutable traits. And you can't possibly ascend if you're born a certain way. There are those that believe that women being evil and manipulative and hypergamous by nature or feminism is the leading cause of inceldom. And then there are those very few, the Black kill I want to sort of emphasize does not call for violence in any way, but there's sort of a very few that believe that, you know, a beta uprising or something is a solution. So that's kind of where the different definitions really sort of can blend over each other. You got it. And is there a couple of things? One is if you want to, just for anybody who might be new to the term in the context of the kind of incel Black pill stuff, what hypergamy would refer to if either of you is willing to give a quick definition of that, just in case somebody had heard that by, would it be fair to say that it's a core tenant of the Black pill, namely this kind of hypergamy ranked, you could say, cranked up? I'd say it's a pretty significant theme that comes up. And hypergamy is basically it's a sociological term that refers to the nature of women specifically to marry up. So, you know, women will partner, mate, marry up in terms of social status. It's actually not the Black pill or incels or the hemisphere that coined this term. It's been around for over 100 years. I think it started in India in the caste system, but it sort of refers to this tendency for women to kind of select their their mates in order to secure their own social standing comfort, financial status, etc. Got you. Yeah. Go ahead. When it comes to that, obviously, they're going to do it because they can, if guys could easily do it, they would probably do it, too. It's not really a thing that you can just solve by saying, oh, say, man, girl, friends or stuff like that. And that's where I lose them, where it's not really like a nature. It's that of women. It's the nature of this money will give me more of a chance to live. Let me get that higher social status. Exactly. I mean, it's it's also kind of it's both culturally and societally kind of evolved to be that way. And to some degree, you know, maybe biologically, too, in that women are usually the primary caregivers for children. And in the past up until fairly recent history, women didn't have agency. They didn't have financial independence. Didn't have social upward social mobility, except for in their partnerships and marriages. So that's where it originates. I agree that, you know, when when and if the tables turn a bit, then, you know, men might start doing it a bit more, too. And I think that one of the grievances a lot of incels or those in the man's fear have is that women continue to be this way and select this way, despite having increased agency and increased sort of socioeconomic standing independently. And I do see that that is that can be a problem. Gotcha. Is there in terms of kind of the Blackpill position, is there anything to which either of you would say, you know, I think there is truth to this, at least in part regarding this idea, x, y, or z? Well, it's mainly the foundation of it's being more and more harder nowadays for guys to get into relationships. Well, it's not for the reasons that they state. It's more so because of the commodification of everything mainly love with apps such as Tinder and whatnot. It's and it's not the liberation of women. The liberation of women makes it easier because it means that girl that you like and she likes you, she's not going to wait for you to say, hey, I like you. She can come up and say, I like you and it won't be weird. Right. And she's also not going to necessarily wait until, you know, you have several horses and several hundred acres of land or whatever to to give her to offer her in marriage. So, yes, you know, I agree with that. I think that there are many things I agree with in the Blackpill. There are some that are just indisputable, like some of the data, you know, that I mentioned from these studies about sort of. Female mate selection and just for me, at least it's what I mostly agree with is the idea that human beings are locus by nature. I think it's silly to argue that or to dismiss that. Yes, you know, people might be able to overcome it to some degree and people do overcome it, especially over time. But I'm so sorry to interrupt, Nama, but what was the word that what was the word to use? Was it locus? Lookest, yeah. Well, can you say more? And I think you said regarding the I think you're alluding to the idea of the hypergamy, just because, like I said, some people being new to this subject. Could you even more? Yeah. Lookest like, you know, sexist, ageist, racist, just judging on appearance. So the human beings judge other human beings on their appearance and that people that are deemed attractive by and large enjoy more of the perks of society. There are studies about, you know, the respective heights of CEOs, for instance, or men in sort of power positions and studies that were conducted basically just, you know, on job hiring and all kinds of things based on a participant's ranked attractiveness. So I think that that's kind of intuitive to know that to some degree people do that. There's also the concept of well, it's in my opinion they look at the data from dating apps a lot and see, you know, what women select, you know, what kind of chances they're after mating. The basic idea being that women are more selective than men, which is true. Then the look at studies like the one about, you know, the increasing number of young people who are not having sex or in relationships that we've seen over the last 10 years, that's really kind of skyrocketed. And I think that these things are mostly the result, in my opinion, of technology and social media and the way that those things have progressed to where people are seeing sort of an increasingly narcissistic, superficial, shallow version of each other and of themselves to compare to and connecting less in real life. You know, everyone has to, if you're going to use a dating app, then the first thing you see is a small possibly photoshopped or face tuned image of someone and then decide to dismiss or not from there. So I think that's that's got a lot to do with it. But I would agree that those are problems that we are seeing increasing rates of loneliness and lack of sexual contact in younger people. And there are reasons for that, basically. Super interesting. Nate, if you want to say something, go ahead. Otherwise, I was just going to say a fascinating thing about like what this means in terms of like you're saying not just dating in terms of the way in which people date may be influenced in the context of being like, let's say on apps, it's maybe like more looks oriented or it kind of has this tinge of judging a book by its cover more. Is that like roughly speaking, maybe what you're saying? Yeah, yeah. And with social media in general, like things like Facebook and Instagram and everything where everyone sees just a very curated and also very doctored up image of each other. Women, young women, for instance, nowadays, it's very infashioned to wear a lot of makeup and contour in ways that really change your appearance, almost like it's designed for the purpose of Instagram rather than real life. So it's just we are interacting with each other differently. We're meeting each other in different ways and on different terms. And the way that we're meeting is based on a very kind of flattened to the social media version. Interesting. And Nate, go ahead. Sorry. I didn't mean to. OK, it's OK. The time on the social media thing, when it comes to the look spacing, those things are done on purpose. It's easier to sell people on the idea of the dating app if they see a lot of Buckeye guys or a bunch of cool looking girls. They also understand that to experience guys are more insecure about their relationships that is due to them having a lot more competition than usual because of a lot of the systemic issues we were talking about earlier. So they're going to make it so it's easier for guys, good looking guys to get matches and good looking girls to get matches but make it harder for people like me to get those kinds of swipes because they understand that we're more likely to cave in and buy the premium membership so we can see who matched with us and have unlimited likes and all that cool stuff. If they wanted to make it. Yeah, if they wanted to, they could make it so we have like an intro video to express our personality a bit better than just like a line of text and what we look like. Gosh, so you're saying you're kind of an agreement in terms of this exacerbating of the kind of look the locus kind of mentality in the dating world. Yeah, but it's not inherent to like the social media. If they wanted to make it more towards our personalities and whatnot, they could easily make a dating app like that. It's just not what it's going to make the most money because that's how the world works. We do what makes money, not what's best for the world. Really interesting. Thanks for that, Nate. Now, one question. This is one that I have to ask if you don't mind, because this is one of the more interesting topics we've had in a while. So I'm a lot more involved than usual and I can't help but ask. So, Nate, this is interesting that you actually would say you're not by, you could say, philosophy or position, whatever you want to call it. You would say, though, you're not Blackpill, whatever you want to call it, like I said. And at the same time, though, you would say like I would call myself an insult, which seems almost I'm just, I guess I'm like figuring out how it works where I would have thought that only a person who believed in the Blackpill philosophy, so to speak, maybe you don't want to call it a philosophy, whatever you want to call it. I would have thought only those people would have said, you know, I'm an insult, for example, that would have used that term. And so I'm curious about how that works from your position. OK, well, it's pretty simple. It's the word existed before the communities. They kind of just took the word around the same time when Pepe, they were trying the right wing communities were trying to take Pepe. They didn't work with Pepe, but it didn't work with Ansel because like no one used it, even when it was a thing, because it was way easier to just say I'm a virgin or whatnot. So essentially, I would say it's a philosophy. But yeah, no, I don't subscribe to it. But by literal definition, I am that I helped to reclaim the word. So it's not just like this harmful thing that people believe in. I see. So you're wanting to bring a more being a more you're a congenial fellow. You're you're a reason you know, you're easy going, you're easy to get along with. And so you're saying by being a more normal, I don't know what it was, by trying to have a positive attitude and identifying as in cell, you're trying to like alleviate the kind of stigma that might be around it. Is that roughly speaking? Give or take, yeah. Gotcha. OK, thanks for clarifying that. That's interesting. But I didn't want to interject too much. So Nama, if you had anything to say as well, if either of you did, feel free to jump in with any sort of ideas you wanted to share. Yeah, I mean, I think there are, you know, Nate is reasonable. I think there are a lot of a lot of in cells more, more often than not. At least the ones I talked to. And there might be some selection bias there because these are individuals who are interested and in and willing to come on my show, you know, which already might kind of, like I said, bias that sample a bit. But the majority of in cells are not ideologically possessed, you know, negative, angry hate mongers. There are varying degrees of grievances and sort of adherence to the idea that one might be doomed to a certain fate because of their looks or, you know, whatever else it might be. But the majority aren't. And there are many in cells I've had, you know, on recently even that come from all across the political spectrum. You know, one recently that even identified as a feminist. So, yeah, there are there are a lot of people like that. You got it. Thank you. And then so is there anything that either of you because would kind of say, I do think I know this is it's putting you on the spot. Both of you are either of you. If either of you had anything where you'd have to say, I got to hand it to the black toll, they may get a lot wrong, but they get one thing right. And not majority named one, namely, you said, well, maybe not in its entirety, but you said you think there's at least some truth to the idea that, for example, the locused, you could say that there's such a thing as locused ism, which is akin to like sexism or racism. Like there's this kind of favoritism for people who are good looking that is probably relatively unacknowledged compared to the other ism. So that I think is like pretty persuasive. Or is there anything else, whether it be from Nate as well, that you would say you're like, you know, I got to kind of say, I do think that there is some truth to this. I would say that I agree that there is some truth to the idea that societally after decades and centuries and millennia of really being misogynistic, there has been sort of an emergence of what I would call misandric behavior and talk, you know, that that's geared against men or discriminatory toward men that is socially acceptable now. That was one of the first things I was told by one of the first insoles I spoke to that really hooked me, that made me interested in listening to more. It's that it's OK. It's sort of socially acceptable to say things like men are trash in female spaces. And it's not OK to say things in the reverse, you know. So it's kind of an epistemic privilege thing going on where I do think that that leaves many young men, especially feeling kind of marginalized or like their their pain isn't substantial, isn't real, doesn't matter. And I think that's problematic. And then I also think there's some truth to some of the theories that certain behaviors or tendencies are not just culturally driven, but biologically driven. That's kind of the main main thing I would say. Got you. Thanks, Nama. Nate, I go ahead about the misandry thing. Yeah, it is normalized. But the reason why it was normalized as much is it's like black people being racist to white people. While on average, that average white person has never been super racist to a black guy, they still have a lot more power. And being racist to a white guy is a lot less harmful than being racist to a black guy. Being racist to a black guy can lead them to jail. You can get them shot if you call the cops on them. Just like with women, you can sexually assault them easier. There's a lot of other things that make it like that. And the easiest way to reduce them being hateful towards men is evenly in the playing field. You can see that being the case because despite only being feminist, being in the forefront of men's right activists aren't really that popular. Most of the problems that men right activists have been having a problem with have been starting to close the gap, like what the child protective service is. And I forget that male suicide, I think I'm not for sure, though, about that one. Yeah, no, that's that's right. Yeah, I agree with that. It's exactly right. It's there's a power imbalance that has existed for for so long that this is an attempt to sort of even the playing field and it's reactionary. And I just think that at times that can edge towards being a bit maybe over reactionary, leading certain people to feel. On just unseen. Gotcha. I'm curious what you meant, Nama, when you originally mentioned the idea of like men being able to kind of slam other men. Like, can you give any sort of example of what you mean? I think you said like it was it in the presence of women? No, I'm really talking more about the Internet because that's where a lot of this takes place. And big tech platforms like Reddit and things like that where there are, you know, female subreddits, groups like one notably FDS female dating strategy where there is rhetoric on there that's very hateful toward men or about men by women. And that's sort of a lot more socially acceptable than if you have an all male space denigrating women in any way. So I don't think that either of either of us should be just denigrating the other, you know, freely. I also don't think that should be censored. And I do think that it should be, you know, there shouldn't be a double standard. I think that, you know, it should be it's allowed in one. It should be allowed in the other. And that's kind of what I'm referring to is more for a male space to make misogynistic statements. That place is more likely to be banned and considered, you know, hotbed of radicalization, whereas we have many very toxic, I would say, female spaces. Gosh, OK, I see what you're mean, saying thank you very much for that. I am curious. This is we're like switching over into a slightly different topic. And we can come back to more of these serious kind of talks. But by the way, I want to let you know, folks, we have kind of a short show tonight is short and sweet, so it'll be about an hour. And so I'm going to jump in with just another thing in terms of transitioning because this is a fascinating phenomenon. The I'm curious why you guys would both guess because it's fair to say I don't know a lot about this, but I think I understand that incel the idea is like pretty stigmatized, right? Like because I had told a friend, I said, well, we're maybe going to do a discussion on incel. And she was like, well, like, really, like you do that on the channel. And I was like, well, it was like, I didn't know it was that bad. I don't know a lot about it. But it does sound like I'm on the right track when it's like it's a pretty controversial topic, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like race realism pretty much. But they're they are the inferior race. Like they would generally think that the charge are born different. Like they're just superior at birth. Well, I obviously understand that to a certain extent. It's more because they were raised more easily by their parents because their parents had more money. More money means that you don't have to worry about a lot of things like having a good house, having food and whatnot, so you can spend more time with your kid, treat them how to be a proper gentleman and whatnot. But when it comes to the philosophy of the red pill, like it's yeah, no, it's the same as being an it's as bad as being a Nazi. Got it. OK, so very, very controversial. And yet something a strange phenomenon has happened, namely, a lot of the in cell language has made it into the mainstream such that so if anybody is to because it's become popular, a lot of people without knowing what in cell was prior to this discussion, they knew what a Chad referred to, for example, you just said Chad Nate. And I'm so curious why it is that Chad's everybody. I think a lot of people, if I'm like looking at the live chat, people know what a Chad refers to. And I'm wondering what are their in cell type language? Is there anything else that's kind of become popular in terms of out there in terms of the mainstream that people have used that originated from in cell? I think it's mainly just Chad. But unless they know what a Stacy is, which is just like the female version of Chad of the girl that just loops with the rich dude, mainly it was back in 2016 when all this stuff started getting popular. And that was when the right wing was starting to try to appropriate all the means. So a lot of people that were disaffected with politics and didn't really understand why people were saying that Pepe was a hastler and just found this stuff funny, probably saw and didn't think too much about it. Gotcha. And the reason though, I find it fascinating. I'm wondering like, how has this happened that it is the case that it's a super controversial group? And nonetheless, much of the mainstream people have borrowed the language from in cells, such as phrases or terms like Chad. Well, they're catchy. I mean, one of the things that I found really interesting about in cells was the language, all the neologisms, all the terminology. And I think, you know, there is, Nate was right to point out that the right, the extreme part right started appropriating in cell language and means. And that kind of went back and forth because the two movements, in my opinion, sort of grew together out of like a 4chan culture, which was like a subversive, you know, very politically incorrect kind of internet culture that was largely built from the language. So it's sometimes it's hard to say, at least for me, the etymology of these terms, if it started with the incelosphere or with the far right, but certainly terms like normie. I hear being used also. People do say things like blackpilled or redpilled, I think, without really referring specifically to in cells. Beta, obviously, we talked about that one. That doesn't come necessarily from themselves. It's in the concept of alpha and beta males, but it's been used a lot more lately, and I think it was popularized on incel spaces. Yeah, so it's fascinating that that's the case and that I didn't know that alpha and beta, we use it ironically at this channel a lot. It's not as serious as what some people. Beta, right. That's a regular. We I, you know, people would hear would have thought it originated, maybe with Jesse Lee Peterson, but do I understand, right, that it actually had originated from black cell, maybe? No, it's it's like the it's like from the fetus community of that. It's all the way back when we used to think that wolves had the alpha male thing, where the leader of the pack was the most chad like. But later on, we found out that it was mainly the father dog or whichever one was the elder that was the leader and not really based off of which one was most powerful. So which has been stayed by the person that did the study themselves, if anyone is going to complain about that. Oh, interesting. Huh. That is. Well, we are we do have about 20 minutes left of our, you could say, event tonight. And so we are going to move in at the Q&A folks shortly. So I do want to let you know, folks, if you happen to have questions for either of our guests, please do fire them into the old live chat and we'll try to read through as many as we can with the time that we have. It's short and sweet as our guests, their time is valuable and want to let you know they are linked in the description. So if you want to hear more, given that it is short and sweet tonight, you can hear more by clicking on their links below and pulling up the Q&A now. But yes, folks, do want to let you know we really do appreciate our guests. We are trying to you could say, I want to let you know, 99 percent of you out there, you're pleasant. You don't attack the guests, you're phenomenal. And then there is like 1 percent that once in a while we'll attack the guests. I think it's even less than that now. And so we have, we are changing our norms and our culture is changing here at Moderate Debate such that we are looking for, hey, attack the arguments. All you want, fair game, but we want to always remind you to attack the arguments instead of the person. And so thanks for the 99 percent who regularly do that and the rest of you will be destroyed. So bubble gum gun, thanks for your first question says, have you ever seen an incel with a Chad body? I think this is a serious question though. They say, let's not beat around the bush. The mixed economy system has provided a welfare for such genetics to breed. Oh, by the way, this is fascinating because I did recently hear from, I was listening to a geneticist talk about how allegedly more attractive people are, maybe, I don't think he was even referring to through sexual selection, but maybe more attractive people are being selected for, like more likely to pass on their genes. Now nonetheless, I'll go back to the actual question though, have you ever seen an incel with a Chad body? Is that possible that a person could be incel of it? But they nonetheless have a body that is like, Brad Pitt back in his prime. Yep. And it's a very popular powerful man named Hasan Piker, if you've heard of him. Okay, well, anyway, let's see. I don't know exactly who that is, but. He's a friend of ours. He was the young Turks. Do you know what that is? Yes. Okay. Well, he did all those shorts for them back in the day. He's a really big Twitch streamer now. He doesn't debate as much early on he did a bit, but he realized that wasn't his forte, so he just moved on with other stuff. But he calls himself an insult and whatnot, but he's like very good looking. Gotcha. Anybody, he's being sincere when he says he's an incel. He's not using it facetiously. Half and half. He's not a virgin, but he hasn't had any for like a few years now. This poor man, we're talking about his sex life. Sorry, Hasan, we hope you're well. But Sitch Afredos Rabia has another question and says, do you like anime? Who can ever understand? I don't know what that means, but folks, I want to let you know we are, let's see. Do either of you, do the guests understand that? Cause I don't. I think he's the meaning, but yes, I do watch. I'll go to some of the classics like Cowboy, Bebop, and now we're going, whatnot. It's just like a, do you know what a neck beard is? Yes. Okay. He's trying to, he's trying to out me as a neck beard. Oh. It's just kind of a stereotype about incels liking anime. Oh. I would say many of them do, but you know, that's probably a consequence of being isolated and lonely and you know, getting into fantasy. Gotcha. That is fascinating. And by the way, I wanted to ask, is it possible? Cause I heard there's allegedly controversy and whether or not, is it true that a lot of the incel people would say, namely the males would argue that you can't be, what is the term for it, fem cell, that you can't be a woman who is incel? Would they say that's impossible because they think of women as being way more sexually desired than men? Is that, do I understand? Is that a common? Yeah. It's harder to be a fem cell, but it's still not completely impossible. There's still plenty of girls that haven't had it, but they're too shy or a lot of other factors. Gotcha. Yeah, that's right. Many of them don't think it's possible to be female and incel, just as many of them don't think it's possible to be a gay man and incel because they believe that the problem that's leading to inceldom is females being increasingly more selective and pickier with their mates. So straight females wouldn't have that problem and gay men wouldn't have that problem. Oh, that's fascinating. So would they have to let, would they have to enter the little club or in their position to be consistent, would they have to say that there could be such a thing as a person who's lesbian in cell? Because if you're a lesbian and if it's hard to attract women because women are according to the incel kind of philosophy, way more picky, then for like, theoretically, it seems like lesbians, they would say, would they grant that lesbians could be incel? I don't think they think too much about lesbians, but they should probably. Gotcha. Yeah, and there's, I think that they wouldn't think that mainly because they would be like, oh, they're both very attractive by default. So they'll both want each other, even though they are picky. So, but that's just a shot in the dark. I don't know. I've never even thought to ask them that. Yeah. Fascinating. And also bubblegum gun says not saying it's all genetic but social leads genetic. I don't know actually what bubblegum means in this case. I think he's trying to say that genetically will be socially disposed or something which is just like silly stuff. Like we have been shown time and time again that 90, like a good 90% at least of our social upbringing is how we're shaped as a person minus like our like jawline or stuff like that unless we get plastic surgery. It's like, if I was raised in Nazi Germany, there's like a good 50, 50 shot. I would have been a Nazi, but I wasn't. I was grown up during the boom of the internet. I got to see what anarchy really was like. So I became an anarchist. Interesting. And that reminds me, there's something fascinating about that namely, do I remember right? So a lot of the incel in the parochial use theory mean that namely a person would be saying it's not always genetic. It's also maybe that there's this compounding effect of the kind of social expectations of society. Namely, let's say somebody is like perceived as good-looking and then the good-looking person will as a result of kind of having kind of getting this better treatment kind of being treated in a way that might give them more confidence, that kind of like creates this, you could say cycle or kind of- Yes. Can you explain like Namo in your words, given that you're a specialist on this? Like what would, can you explain more on that please? Well, I think that that's a general concept sort of in psychology that you can even, when they study the way parents interact with their children, there's a mutually reinforcing kind of effect of not only the parents behavior or inherent sort of traits and character determines how they treat the child, but the child's personality traits also change the way that their parents treat them. So that continues throughout life. And I think that's true that, yes, if someone has a certain genetic makeup that leads them to be perceived as good-looking or desirable, then the way that they are have been treated throughout their life, lots and lots of positive reinforcement leads them to be even more affable and more sort of fluid socially and more confident and all the things you just said in the reverse is also true. That is fascinating, really interesting. And so thanks for explaining that Namo. And the next question comes in from bubble gum gun as they say, incel is just another outcome of socialism creating starvation, but starvation of sex. To solve such inequality, we would have to set up sexual welfare programs. That's a fascinating idea. Have you, either of you ever heard of something like this? Go ahead Nate. It's a meme within the incel community. Elliot Rogers was talking about state mandated girlfriend within his manifesto. He was like the big incel shooter. It's a joke. It's, while there is some ideas that I have which would kind of be like that, but nowhere near the same extent. It would just be like better sexual education instead of what we have right now where parents can just opt out of teaching their kids about how the stuff works if it's like that's serious or whatnot, because I can see a lot of guys being worried or no sex is so scary or they just don't know how to talk to girls. But the answer isn't just to force girls to hang out with them or guys with guys or girls with girls. Gotcha. Interesting. So I guess it would have, it seems like it's inevitable. Nama, go ahead and say anything, jump in if you want. Otherwise, like I said, because I find this fascinating I'm like jumping in a lot. It's almost like the, as some would argue the Pareto principle such that you see with it coming from whether it be like resources or even podcasts today in terms of their popularity, like it tends to be the case that 80% of the views are going to 20, let's say the top 20% of podcasts or I should say technically listens, downloads, whatever you want to say. And that idea they're saying is playing out in the world of dating and romance. Okay, fascinating. Yeah, Pareto comes up a lot in the black pill. And I think the thinking is that, well, my thinking anyway, is that that's kind of like a natural law. It's a statistics principle that we see in many different spheres. The problem happens when an economy, a society is not Pareto efficient, you know, when the Matthew principle or the, which keep getting richer, the poor keep getting poorer to where it's not even 80, 20. And I think the argument sometimes is that, you know, it's tipped over that point. But yeah, like Nate said, the idea of government mandated girlfriends or sex workers is usually just a meme, just kind of said ironically, but I do know some people who believe it would be a good solution. That's fascinating. And also this one coming in from General B says, Nama, what do you mean by fate? So I think this is maybe as early as your opening. And I think I had seen him in the chat, Steve had said that he's new to this. So was there something maybe like a core tentative in cell that you were explaining and you had said you use the word fate in explaining? I might have, yeah, I know I did use that word. I think I was just generally talking about the concept that, well, the black pill is very fatalistic, you know, it's very deterministic. It's very much, you were born with a certain number in the genetic lottery and that really predetermines your fate throughout life. As it was described very eloquent to me, not prescriptive, the black pill, but descriptive. So it doesn't tell you what to do or how to game the system as the red pill does to some extent, it's very kind of just like this is it. This is the reality and there's nothing you can do about it. Gotcha. Okay, that's fascinating. Thank you for sharing that as well. And then this one coming in, do appreciate, okay, nope, this is Steven Steen who says, I have to read it, sorry guys. Chads have nothing on James, the real alpha. All right, I'll pay you for that, Steven. I'll pay you later for that. Deepak Ramachandran, thank you for your question, said before there were incels, there were otakus in Japan. No, that's otaku means that you're, it's essentially like a super nerd for like manga and anime. Well, otaku would also be an insult, it's not the same thing at all. We are Hikikimori, that's a little closer. Gotcha, okay. So there's something, you're saying there's something in the Japanese culture, there's something like roughly equivalent to it, though it's not otakus. Yeah, otakus are good. They're like weeaboos in America, but they live in Japan. Gotcha. But there is a group called Hikikimori in Japan, which was what the original R9K was, the fortune community, and that's kind of like incels, that those are adults that don't, that live with their parents, they're neat, the new concept of neat, not in employment or educational training, they're not in work or school, they don't have relationships, they don't have children. This population was so big in Japan at one point recently that the government actually did a country-wide survey of how many there were and estimated that by a certain year there'd be so many that they wouldn't, the parents of this generation would sort of die off and it would be a big financial problem for the country. They called it the 2030 problem or something. It's already been like showing, it's not like a, could be, it's like a, we know what's happening, it's really bad, I've read a lot about it. One of the biggest reasons why it's happening is because they don't have any immigration. So even, so not only are the people being like disaffected by default, they're also not getting more people in instead of babies. So it's like it's super compounding. And if they had more people in, more people would be more comfortable with more people because there will be more cultures they would understand that they're not that weird. It's really simple to solve, but like people still think Japan is like this great place to live in, it's really not. Yeah. The interesting difference I would say between Hikikomori and incels, among other things is then in Japan, it's not a gendered thing. Whereas in the rest of the world, especially the West, it's very much, you know, it's considered part of the atmosphere. And in Japan, it's different. Interesting. Okay. Thanks for that. And then Ozian, thanks for your question. He said, Nate, do incels consider getting coaching or counseling from professional therapists to see if it might help? No, but they should. Like I said earlier, if you're talking about the incels that were subscribed to the repel and whatnot, they thought that they literally were genetically inferior that their change was soft. If you watch videos of them, they would say that like, even when the girls, if you listen to their stories sound like they were legitimately interesting and gave them photos, the self-doubt was so deep that they thought that they were like just messing with them so they could date other people and just assume that they were cheating even when they weren't. It's a thing that they definitely should be doing and it would help a lot with the issue. It's what I want instead of the Socialism 6 program. But it's just hard to convince people that that's actually helpful. Interesting. And then Nama, do you have anything as well? Yeah, there's a pretty big stigma, I would say, in the incel community against psychotherapy or, you know, behavioral health because, well, because there just is one in a lot of these communities, including in the far right, and some that kind of swap back and forth, but also because of some genuinely pretty negative experiences that incels have had. And I do think that we should probably have people in the mental health field know a little bit about this condition. I think it would probably help a lot. Gotcha, thanks for that. And this one coming in from Endo H or XD says, Nate, who is your waifu, is it pronounced or they spelled it W-A-I-F-U and they said, mines Robin from one piece. What's waifu? Waifu, it just means a fictional character that you like a lot. Some of them take it a bit farther than others. Some have body pillows that they like to sleep with with pictures on them. I do not personally have a waifu because I just, it's just weird to me, okay? Like I just, they're like fictional characters. I'm just, I'm sorry. I do, I do watch that kind of stuff. If you know what I mean, Mr. Endomax, but I don't have a waifu. Juicy. And this one coming in from bubble gum gun says, we might have just a couple of minutes left for questions that might remain. Bubble gum gun asks or says, there is, so what are your thoughts on this, both of you? There is a correlation between Ancom, is that anarcho-communism, the abbreviation Ancom and Intel? Yes, I think so, yeah. No, they're really, there really isn't. I'm the only one that I've seen that has been open and this is my first debate. I don't know where you got this. A lot of people that were subscribed to the red pill were part of the dollar. The red pill is a term from the right, even though it was from a movie about the trans identity and whatnot and that's what the red pill is supposed to mean. It's much more of a white-wing philosophy than a left-wing one. Gotcha. Anne, Sijafredo Sarabi asked for Nama without double standard, without a double standard, should women propose? I think that's completely up to the woman, of course. And I think that when it comes to traditions and little gestures like that, that are, I would say, not really having net negative effects on society, like proposing or making the first move even to some extent. I think those are a little bit lighter and we don't necessarily have to take them as seriously. There, I think, personally, that there will always be customs that are slightly different for men, for women, even if they're just vestiges of things we carry from a long time. Gotcha. But when it comes to censorship, I think that's a more serious issue. Really interesting. And this one coming in, do you wanna get your question in Team Skeptic as we do appreciate all of your support of the channel? So folks, team was on the other night just, was that Monday night? Yeah, Monday night. So really fun debate as well as others. And Team says, have incels ever considered looking into their female counterparts for companionship? It would seem as if they share the same struggle. I see, gotcha. So I think he's saying like, have male incels ever considered looking into their female incel counterparts in order to partner up romantically? Well, back in the day, it was started by a, the word was made by a female incel. So yes, but also nowadays it's a lot more right-wing, it's a lot more misogynistic, that's misandrous. So now they're a lot more segmented and it is a thing that they should do, but they really don't. Gotcha. Any thoughts, Nama? Yeah, there's not a lot of patience or empathy from one group to the other as far as I've seen. And I think that that's kind of silly and self-defeating. I think it would make sense for them to talk to each other, but the incels that the males tend to think that, the fem cells are kind of silly or trivial and couldn't possibly understand their plight. Fem cells find the incels distasteful and chauvinist, and to some extent they both may be right, but they're probably more alike than they are different. I think one main difference though is, I think there's a bit of an age difference between those two groups on the aggregate. Really, I'm curious what the age, like does one group tend to be an average of this age to this age versus the other? Yeah, I think the men are a lot younger, kind of an early 20s median age, and for the women in forever alone or the fem cells, it's a bit older than that, maybe even like 10 years or so. Gotcha, fascinating. Thanks for that. And last question of the night, folks. We do, our guests have valuable time, and so we do want to respect that. Adam Fitzgerald, this is a quick one. They say, do you agree that Southern Poverty Law Center labeling with the Southern Poverty Law Center labeling of incels as a hate group? Absolutely not. I don't, oh, interesting, go ahead. Well, it's like I said earlier, the right wing did claim the word effectively. I'm trying to change that, but right now, incel does mean R slash the right pill forever alone, et cetera, et cetera. It is, they're a lot less likely to shoot up a school. They're more likely to just kill themselves, but it is a hate group nonetheless. We'll give you a chance to give you our take, Nama, as I know your perspective may be different. Yeah, and I think it's interesting that Nate thinks that they should be, I guess that I certainly can understand why they would be labeled a hate group, but I don't think it's helpful to do that. Similarly, I mean, in your country in Canada, there was a, sorry about that, a minor who recently got a terrorism designation for a crime that was stabbing the massage parlor and some jurisdictions have taken to labeling incels as terrorist groups. Now, that's a lot more specific of a definition than hate group, but I think that that's really not accurate. I don't think that incels have a political goal, so calling them a group that commits political violence is inaccurate. Basically, I just think that the labeling and the othering and it's already somewhat of a pejorative and doing anything to sort of make it more of one or bring it under more scrutiny is just making a group that's already ostracized and feels persecuted, feel more that way. And that's what I think ends up leading people to see violence as a recourse. You got it. Folks, I wanna say we have to wrap up, but our guests are linked in the description and that includes if you're listening via the podcast, you can find both Nate and Nama's links and we encourage you to check them out as we really do appreciate them. So one last thank you, Nate and Nama, it's been a true pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very glad that you let me on since this is my first time doing anything of this caliber. Absolutely. Thank you both. Folks, I'll be right back with a post-credits scene letting you know about upcoming debates. So stick around and I'll be back in just a moment. Ladies and gentlemen, pumped to get to say hi to you. We are excited. You know, we told you folks at the beginning of the year we were going to change it up and we've been working on that. New topics. We are working on all sorts of fun new, you could say formats as well in terms of once in a while. We plan on doing some more three on three discussions or debates and also a change in the format in terms of the style. Tonight was more of a dialogue and we like that. We like mixing it up. It doesn't have to be like a clashing debate every single night. And so we do appreciate you hanging out here at the channel. I didn't get to mention it during the debate, but if it's your first time here, want to let you know we are a neutral channel. We only host debates. If you look at the entire channel, we have no videos where I like I jump in and it's just me and I'm like, hey, this is the case for whatever X, Y, Z and this is why you should believe in this. No, no, no, it is a purely neutral debate channel with only debates on science, religion and politics. And so we want to let you know, we hope you feel welcome. No matter what walk of life you're from, whether you be incel or not, whether you be gay, straight, trans, you name it folks, Christian, atheist, Democrat, Republican, we're glad you are here. And so welcome and we're excited for a lot of juicy upcoming debates. Want to share a couple of those with you right now. I'm gonna say hi to you in the chat. I get to, I always love getting to hang out with you guys afterwards. And this is a short and sweet one. I love tonight, really good one. And so good to see you, Mr. P. Good to see a team skeptic as well as Ken McCracken and Anderson and Let's Farm and Platium. By the way folks, want to let you know I have linked our Discord modern day debate which Platium and Let's Farm, who you see in the live chat right now on YouTube, they have done a ton of work as well as Mathpig and others who have done a great job with the modern day debate discord and we're thankful for that. And so that is linked at the top of the chat. Want to encourage you to check that out. And folks, I am still trying to learn how to do Discord. Embarrassingly, I still haven't. It's just really cognitively demanding for me but I am hoping to. And so we do want to let you know that even though I'm not super present there yet, I am looking forward to being more present on the Discord. It's like guys, boomer kind of tech stuff over here. You know how it goes. You've seen our show for a long enough but do want to say hi to you in the Twitch chat as well to Potsul as well as DylanEFG. Glad you were here with us as well as Ozzyn. And thanks for your super chat. Topot2 says you did a great job tonight. James loved this different style of discussion. Thanks Topot2. Seriously, that is really encouraging. I really do appreciate you saying that. That means a lot. And also thanks for being here Topot. And if you guys are in the Twitch chat, which folks, I'll throw that in the old YouTube live chat right now. If you are in the Twitch chat, want to let you know those dank emoticons that you can use? Well, want to let you know those are from Topot2. So we appreciate Topot making those. And I just put the modern-day debate Twitch link in the YouTube chat. If you haven't already, follow us on Twitch as we are live there every time we are live on YouTube unless there's boomer tech issues. But pretty much all the time. And thanks for your support. Third finger from the right says, smash that like button. Thank you for your support. We appreciate that. And bubble gum gun, thanks for your kind words of what the moderating tonight. And then Hannah Anderson says, all mods in chat, join the Discord please. And so thanks again to those who have worked so hard for the Discord as well as thanks to our mods at modern-day debate who have always done a great job at getting rid of hate speech as well as, we've got this new, we said, we're changing the culture here folks. We, it's not a sustainable system if we have people slandering people in the live chat. Because why would a debater wanna come back? And so the 1%, because remember, it's only a little, small, tiny little 1% that would trash the guests sometimes as the mods are cracking down and I'm with them. Like I'm fully backing them. And in fact, I'm the one that said, hey, let's do this together. Where we're saying, hey, don't trash the guests. We don't want you to do that. Attack their arguments, absolutely. Go after their arguments. But when you guys trash the guests and sometimes, like I said, we've almost lost guests that we are really thankful to have. And so we do wanna encourage you to attack the arguments instead of the person as always. And you guys do a great job at that, which we appreciate. But also wanna let you guys know, before I say hi to more peeps that are in the chat, as we appreciate you being here, Louis Preciado. Thanks for your kind words. Glad you were here. And thanks, Perfect One. Glad you made it. Thanks, King of PVP said best debate channel. Thanks for that. We appreciate that. Variety is the spice of life, my friends. If it was just debates of the same kind of like intensity or kind of clashing every single night, even with new topics, we were like, hey, you know, there's a lot of ways we can make things novel here that we can refresh things, make them different. One would be the topics, which we're working on tonight. Brand new topic we've never had. But also the guests, of course, we can find new guests that wanna come on the show. Wanna let you know though, folks, if you wanna come on the show, we're becoming more strict. We've got some like loose flexibility with some of our past guests. So, you know, team skeptic the other night, we love them. Team has helped our channel a ton. And so we make an exception for team because team has already done a ton from our day to day. He's helped us a lot and we appreciate it. So we, however, despite some people that we're more flexible with, because for example, they've been with us for a long time helping us, we are getting more strict about saying we do wanna say we require debaters to have their camera on. We are becoming bigger on that and that's one way we do wanna upgrade the quality of the channel. And so that is something that we will make exceptions. So for example, that up there on the top right that you were seeing right there, that's not Nama, that's just a picture of her. So she's been standing so still this entire event. But yeah, basically we will make some exceptions and it depends on what the person's kind of reason is. But generally speaking, we are working on debates always having or he should say debaters always having their camera on. And so we do think that's just a little bit more engaging for the audience, people like seeing reactions. And more like I said, we've got no hard feelings against people who won't use their camera. We know that there are some good reasons out there, but we are becoming more, so case by case basis. But thanks for your support, Brooke Chavis who said smash that like button. And thanks team Skeptic says, neutral equals James is right. LOL, seriously love this channel and everything. Jimmy the Don does. Thank you very much team for your support, man. I do appreciate it. And like I said, team has been with us for a long time in terms of like coming on to modern day debate and people love watching team. We did our, I think it might have been our very first trying to remember if it was either Tom Jump with Tom and Steven. That might have been our first in-person debate, but it also it might have been team and Nathan Thompson. If you guys have seen that, that was an epic debate in Dallas. That was a fun one. If you guys have ever seen that, that was seriously like one of the most fun times I've had with this channel that was in-person. So if you haven't seen that before folks, you got to check it out. But anyway, do want to say hi to you. And I'm here for a while. I got time cause we had a short event. So I'm pumped to get to talk to you. Now I know that some of you, but long story short, there's things we can change up about the channel including one topic, two guess, three format. For example, we want to do more three on three. That's a lot of fun, high energy. We also though want to do some of these kind of dialogues where it's kind of, you could say like more easy going and exploratory, just kind of figuring out what we might agree or disagree on. We had one thing at the very end in which they found that they actually didn't have the same perspective. And that's all right. We also found that there's a lot of overlap in terms of agreement tonight and we're not going to force it. We're not going to say like you have to disagree. That's not, it's not natural. People like it when it's organic and it's spontaneous. And frankly, anything could happen. I think that's one of the things that I, that's what makes me enjoy this every night. And so Hannah Anderson says, we have to applaud things. Oh, thanks says James's lighting is better. He's got a sound on point and doing a bang up job at moderating. Thanks for your kind words Hannah. That seriously means a lot. And it is true. The lighting is way better. I have not, I haven't even yet set up the ring light. I do David Street. Thank you so much for your help. I have to figure out how to fit it because I can't fit it on my table but I will find a way to fit it. But I've got to like it's going to take a little maneuvering but I can figure it out. So this isn't even with a ring light. This is just because Cameron, actually Cameron reached out to me after the debate with Dr. Michael Shermer. You guys remember that in January? I can't believe it's already made. And Cameron is like, man, that black sheet is what makes you look all washed out. That's why my forehead used to look like it was glowing. And people were like, whoa, it's painful to look. And then I said, all right, Cam, I'll play your game. And so I got this gray sheet and I can't be more thankful for Cam's advice. So we do appreciate his help. Cam, as you know, capturing Christianity. So the kind of the capturing part, I think that's a photographer term. I'm the last person to ask. I know nothing about photography but nonetheless, I know that Cam knows a lot about photography and so Cam has helped in that way and I do appreciate it. No worries team skeptic about not being on camera. It's totally okay. You have a beautiful mug and it's something that like I said, we'll make exception. So we made it like I said, for Nama, we were like, we'll make an exception. And so it's totally cool. We were just thankful to have Nama on as Nama was a total great sport because Nama had a booked day, really booked. And Nama was still willing to come on and basically she was like, okay, I can probably make an hour work. And I was like, we'll take it. Like, we're just glad to have you on. So if you do, I would encourage you. Nama, you can check out her link. Interesting podcast. If you enjoyed this talk, if you thought it was interesting, well, I'm pretty certain you'd enjoy her podcast and that's linked in the description. So both of our guests are linked. We appreciate them. And yes, we are very excited that yes, we would, you could say we are, we are like changing things up to some extent. And I think it's for the better. And those are things like, oh, there's a lot. We're excited about the future though, folks. And I want to let you know what, I want to let you know about one thing that if you have not already folks heard about this, we are pumped about the future in particular with this thing I'm going to talk about in a moment. And Will Stewart says, just hit me up. I can set you up with sample lighting setup that will even remove the glare in your glasses. Oh, Will, that would be super helpful. Thanks for that, Will. And by the way, did you see me? Will, I actually emailed you. I don't know if you saw it yet, but anyway. Now folks, this event, we are so excited about, and this is like the last, so this is going to be big. It's going to be awesome, folks. We are currently doing a crowd fund. So it is for this debate coming up on June 5th. And I want to let you know this debate coming up on June 5th, namely, is there good evidence for God will be starring Dr. Kenny Rhodes and Matt Dillahunty, the juggernaut debater. Folks, you don't want to miss this. It's going to be epic. It's going to be live. And it's going to, as of now, it's going to be public. And so it is going to be absolutely epic. And so you don't want to miss it, folks. So let me do, let me show you more about this. So kind of the details regarding this epic event as you guys are maybe wondering, like, well, when is it? Like, how does this work, exemplary? Like, what is a crowd fund? Don't worry. I will tell you right now, my dear friends. So this crowd fund in particular, as you are seeing on the right side of your screen, see a look over here? Evidence for God. In the description box for this very debate, we have this crowd fund link in the description. So we do want to encourage you folks, if you have not already, consider joining this crowd fund because we are absolutely excited to be able to give these honorariums for our guests. And folks, we are cruising. We've got some serious momentum. I looked back at the last crowd fund that we did, which by the way, you might not know it, but we did a crowd fund back in January and it was a huge success. We're super pumped about how well it went. So we're like, let's do it again. We can do this and we're going to keep getting better at this in terms of including more cool perks, for example. So far right of your screen, you can see we're at about 35% folks. 35% of the way there already, it is going to be epic folks. And that means you can see right there on the meter, it is increasing almost daily. We're having more people join in on the crowd fund. If you have not done it before, let me show you about the, let me explain the details. So one, I want to let you know, we already did this last January. And so this is so that we can make this debate happen. In particular, this debate that we're showing on screen right now between Dr. Kenny Rhodes and Matt Delhenty. We need to reach this goal for this debate to happen folks. We have, this has already agreed upon with the debaters. So we're going to make it to this goal, believe me. We're determined and I'm crazy. I'm telling you, I'm going to make it. Like we are going to do this and I don't care if I have to stay up all night. I know we already have a 12 hour stream, 12 hour stream planned to fundraise for this event. And so folks, if you've ever gotten value out of this channel, if you're like, I've enjoyed it and you're like, yeah, that's like, okay. Well, check out the description box right below our guest links. That's where that Indiegogo link is. I'm going to throw it in the chat in just a second. But want to let you know, if you've ever gotten value from this channel and you're like, yeah, you know, it's like it's been fun, some free entertainment. We want to encourage you to consider joining this crowdfund with us. Consider joining the mission, my dear friends, as we are absolutely determined. I think someone else, thanks so much, we actually, yeah, we did go up by $3. So someone, we just had a new person join in. And so thank you so much for our new pleasure to the crowdfund and want to let you know, you might be like, well, I don't know, James, like if the debate, in order for the debate to happen, you got to reach this goal, what if you don't reach it? Well, first of all, in this alternative universe in which if we theoretically didn't make it, well, you wouldn't be charged. If the debate doesn't happen, nobody would be charged. However, we're like, hey, we're determined. I've already told the guests, they're going to get these honorariums. And so we're determined, we're going to make it happen. You may be like, well, James, are you sure you can do it? Believe me, check out the bottom right of your screen right now. Last time we had 143 backers who had pledged a total of 3,100. So this is only 400 more. And we have, man, I'd say about 10,000 more subscribers since we did the last crowdfund. So we're determined, we are going to make it, folks. I don't care what I've got to do. Me and T-Jump are going to do a car wash in January if we have to, except in May, want to let you know if you haven't ever done a crowdfund, it is easy, folks. So here's how it works. If you've never done it before, because I'm actually relatively, only in the last six months that I ever done it, you can actually sign in with Facebook because you may be like, oh, do I got to create an account where I fill out all these boxes? That's just annoying. Like why do they need all this information? If you're like me, that's what you're thinking when you fill out those boxes. Uh-uh, not with Indiegogo. All you have to do is sign in with Facebook. It's a breeze. So you just breeze on through that, you could say, kind of like getting into Indiegogo, and then you can pledge to this particular crowdfund by clicking on that link in the description box for this crowdfund. Folks, we're absolutely thrilled for it. It's like I said, a piece of cake to sign in through Facebook. Or if you want, if you're like, yeah, I'll use my email, I don't care. Whatever works for you. But I want to let you know, here are some of the perks that we have. Let me show you these as it is. If you look at it, I'm going to two seconds. We have a lot of little pages here. I'm almost there, folks. Okay, now if you look on screen, these are the perks that we have, and we have added new perks. And we're also excited that we've got new people signing up for these perks all the time, which is encouraging. I am super pumped to see that. So for example, but yeah, long story short, for $3, the cup of a price of coffee, you can help support this channel in our goal of providing a neutral platform for debates on politics, science, and religion in a way that is fair to everybody. We give everybody a fair shot. And so we are very excited about this. Want to say, one, help us ensure this debate happens just $3. I mean, really, that's pretty epic, folks. I mean, $3 is like a piece of cake. That's like a price of a cup of coffee. And helping us make this event huge, that's the next tier, $6. That just gives us a few dollars as we want to. We have a small percentage of our total crowd fund, which is basically for, you could say, for the purpose of using advertisements on YouTube to make this event huge. We are pumped about this event. We think this is going to be like an absolutely high level type of debate, as these are two juggernaut type debaters. And so we are really excited about that. And let's see. Thanks, John Smith says, do you intend to post the video of Matt DeLondi debate after it goes live for people to see it pre-recorded? So as of now, we actually have it planned such that the debate will be live so that you can watch it just completely live right there. And for example, if you want to submit a question during the debate, you could do that. Now, we plan on doing that if we get to the last week where it's like, okay, nobody's really signing up. We might go back to the old system where it used to be like, hey, if you just even just throw in three dollars, just three bucks, you'll actually get to watch it live. It's just cool. It's epic. It's like, wow, that's great. And not only would you get to watch it live, but there are those other perks and things too that depending on which one you signed up, you would get. But so I would say this, as of now it's going to be public. If we get to like seven days away from the event, what we might do is say, hey, if you jump into the crowd fund, you can watch it live. And then after the live showing, we would upload the debate in its entirety for the public. Maybe, you know, maybe a couple of days after. That's what we did last time. And we might go back to that. But I think that we can do it this way. I think most people aren't giving so that they can watch the debate. They're doing it because they believe in the vision of the channel, which is providing a neutral platform where everybody can make their case on a level playing field on the topics of science, religion and politics, plus everything else. And I wanna show you the rest of the perks though. We have added epic perks. So your name on screen, that's the third tier that you see on the screen there. Your name read out loud, that's the fourth tier. Those are pretty new. Same as the embossed, modern day debate postcard. Basically, it's a thumbnail made into a postcard. And then it has this embosser, kind of like a stamp of the modern day debate logo, but it's not a stamp. You know what an embosser is where it like imprints into the paper. It's kind of cool. But anyway, modern day debate t-shirt is a new one. And so I wanna encourage you to consider that as that is, we're really excited about that. People I am really encouraged have actually been signing up for the t-shirt. And that I'm like, hey, it's like, modern day debate t-shirt plus you're helping us fulfill the vision of the channel. So we do appreciate that. And modern day debate hoodie, that's the next tier, as well as Zoom chat with James. And that's something like maybe you're like, hey, man, well, Zoom chat would be fun. What would be like useful though? Cause I mean, James, if I have to just look at you for like an hour, I don't know if I can do it. Well, let me tell you a couple of things. One is that for that, if you let's say you're like, James, can you take an hour to teach me exactly how you produce modern day debate in terms of the software and everything else and what if you use the sound boards, which I don't actually recommend. But nonetheless, all the stuff that we use for like modern day debate in terms of production, if you're like, hey, can you teach me like, yes, I absolutely would be willing to do that. Or maybe you're like, James, I want to do an interview or a debate, kind of like we can discuss these issues and then can I upload it to my channel? Absolutely. And if you wanted, you could even like live stream it. So it's an hour long though, and it's on Zoom. And so if that's useful, as well as meet and greet with the guests. This is the one we are absolutely pumped about is that this is our highest level tier. If you're a huge, huge backer of modern day debate, this is a way to support the channel. Basically what happens here is the meet and greet with the guests is where 20 minutes before the show starts, you can come into the Zoom call, hang out with myself and the guests, say hello, just kind of a friendly meet and greet. So not a good time to start debating one of, like one of the guests as they'll be like gearing up for their actual debate for that particular evening. And so we really do want to encourage you though. We are excited about that. And so we do appreciate everybody's support. And yes, we are pumped though. It is an exciting thing, folks, is this strategy, I've got to tell you, it allows us to take more risks because you might be like, hey, James, like I like that you have this cool channel, but I wish that, like, why don't you have people like Dinesh D'Souza versus Vosh? That would be awesome, man. And we're like, yeah, that would be awesome. But you know, the reality is, is to get bigger, newer guests, which would be epic to watch. And I agree is like, that would be epic. Usually it does usually take honorariums. And so that's the goal here is we're basically seeing is this a strategy that can work to where last time we had the goal of 2,500, now it's 3,500. And then frankly, no joke, I can't guarantee it because it depends on what the debaters require. But what we want to do is for the next one, we actually want to ask Dinesh D'Souza and Vosh to have an in-person kind of debate. So no joke, that's really what we want to do. We think it would be absolutely epic. And it's something that I am absolutely just pumped about potentially hosting. I think it would be a lot of fun. But we also like, there are other big time speakers that were like, hey, we'd love to get Sam Cedar. We'd love to get Larry Elder. We'd love to someday, if this strategy keeps working, we'd even love to get people like Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, you name it. We're pumped about it, because we really do believe that we can do some epic stuff here. And so epic, but do want to say thanks for your support. And like I said, if this channel, you're ever like, eh, by the way, it's a fun thing to try a crowdfund out. Is it basically, it's like $3, it's like, like, what are you worried about, right? And so that's something we want to encourage you is like, hey, it's like fun to be a part of the crowdfund making it a magical event, a matricle event. Get it? Dad joke, I'm not a dad, but I have some dad jokes. Making a magical event happen as we are really pumped about this. And we really do want to show our support and appreciation for the guests. I know that sometimes this is really rare. So most of you, 99% of you, you kind of like understand how it works. But once in a while, I'm not joking. I get someone who's like, well, they should just debate for free. And I should get to watch it. And that's just that. And I'm like, well, you shouldn't expect it though. And it's one thing if you don't give to the crowdfund, I don't blame you. Like maybe people are in a hard spot and like I would never blame them. It's like, hey, we're just glad you're here. But some people will kind of like, no, they should just do it. And I, you know, and I'll watch it. And then that's that. And it's like, does there, all their time and their preparation? Cause frankly, I think a debate, if I do, I've done debates in the past folks. And the debates that I used to do in person, I would put in, oh my gosh. I mean, like, I would put in a lot of hours of prepping, reading different materials, everything that I could to be sure that I was as familiar with the subject as possible. And that's part of it too, folks, is that when these guests put in their time to prep to come in for a debate, which I think ideally everybody should put in some prep time. And that assumes that, you know, obviously a lot of them, like for example, like Nama tonight, she's studied this subject a ton throughout the year. So I don't know if she had to do any specific prep for tonight. But nonetheless, you get the point that, you know, like a debater is well prepped if they're ready for a debate. And so that's something that we're like, Hey, you know, we really do want to say, Hey, thank you to our guests. And so an example would be Matt. Matt Dillahunty, I would say about a, maybe a quarter of all the views on our channel. We've got like 5 million views, probably a quarter from Matt debates. No joke. I'm dead serious. That's a lot, you guys. Given that we've had about 600 debates and we've had about 10 Matt debates, Matt makes up a wild proportion of the views for this channel. So Matt has helped bring tons of new people to the channel. Matt has brought tons of entertaining debates of which folks, I like, I just can't, I can't help but say it. We want to show our appreciation for the guests. And so let's see. Hammond Bull of Carthage. Thanks for being here. And Anderson, glad you were here, as well as philosopher Tiger. Thanks for being up, being around, being with us. I got thrown off. Somebody's saying something crazy in the chat. But, Hannah Anderson, good to see you. Thanks for your support. It says, well, y'all hit that like or dislike. It takes a moment. It's free and it helps the channel. Thank you so much. And we do appreciate that, folks. Thank you for that support. And John Smith, good to see you, as well as Dufreek. And C.D., good to see you, as well as Bubble Gum Gun. And Angel Gamer, thanks for being with us. As well as Manic Pandas. Thanks for being with us. Andrew Cole, good to see you. Mades. Is this your first time here? Want to let you know? We hope you feel welcome. And J.C.A.D., glad you were back. Dado Panda. Glad to have you back with us. And philosopher Tiger, that's right. Got to say hi. Also Brooke Chavis, good to see you. Thanks for your support of the channel. It seriously means a lot. And chat's moving fast on me. Give me just a moment. I'm catching up here, folks. Hannah Anderson says, if you have a question for James, just tag him. That's true, is please do just tag me as if you tag me. Well, let me tell you something cool. Is that if you tag me, you can ask a question. Depending on how much time we have, some debates go long and sometimes they get a lot of super chats. Or sometimes they're a short debate and we get a lot of super chats. We can't guarantee to read every question, we try to get to the standard questions as well. And that's one thing I saw one time, I hope you guys stick up for, I can't remember who it was, it was Kaz. Kaz was moderating, he did a great job. And someone tried to rip into him and they said Kaz, you didn't read my question. And it was like, well, Kaz is here for like two hours. He's trying to read through all the questions. And they were just pissed. They were like, that was my question and you didn't read it. And it wasn't even a super chat. And they were just trying to ream him out. And I'm so glad so many people in the chat were like, dude, he's doing his best. And he's just chilling out here because he loves to do this. Like just for free, he's just doing it because he enjoys it. And so who are you to say like, oh, he has to read my question or else he's wronged me. And it's like, no, he's doing his best. And like I said, it wasn't even a super chat. I can get more of it if it's a super chat. It's like, yeah, like that's why people are super chatting, they want it right on air. I get that. But my only thing is I'm so glad that 99% of the people that responded to that person in the comments after the debate, they're like, uh, dude, like Chaz is doing his best. You are not entitled to have every question read on this show. And that's the thing. We'll try, but it's like, especially if it's Kaz or Carissa or Converse, they're doing their best and they do a great job. And so I just appreciate you guys defending them because we appreciate them. They really, honestly, I'm thankful for them. There were so many nights where Converse or Praise or Carissa or Kaz, basically I'd be like, hey, I'm swamped with homework and stuff, I've got a class prep, I've got to do this and that. And I'm like, can you help out really quick and jump in? And they're like, yeah, I'll jump in. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you have no idea how much that helps. Because sometimes it is like, the streams I usually like, I'm engaged and I'm like pouring myself in it. Like I'm enjoying this. And so long story short, sometimes I'm just pooped and I'm just thankful long story short for those moderators. But yes, we do try to read those standard questions, just tag me with modern day debate. If it's your first time here, that's how we roll. And yeah, well, we'll read the super chats first because we've always done and then we'll read the standard questions as well. And then Anderson, glad you were here and Hacks, good to see you. And Saichobob, good to see you. I hope you're doing well. ClintonRosh, good to see you. Let's see, that's funny. ClintonRosh says, if you donate enough to the crowd fund, James promises to butcher your name. Did I ever butcher your name, Clinton? Clinton, I'm sorry. But philosophy tiger, good to see you. And Resoad of Gores says, James and T-Jump are going to recreate Sir Maxilot's music video, put them on the grass during their car wash. I don't think I want to know what that means. But good to see you as well, John Smith. And I think I'm almost caught up. Let's farm, good to see you. And Platium, you must still be here. Thanks for all you do, Platium. I have pinned that chat from Platium for the Discord. The Discord, by the way, folks, yeah, I'd highly encourage you to check it out because the Discord peeps like Platium, MathPig, the people who have really, I haven't done anything. I gotta give them all the credit. They have done all of the Discord stuff. And so we appreciate that. We hope it's a fun time for people. It's hopefully a fun debate community. And hopefully everybody feels welcome there, no matter what walk of life you are. And I know that the moderators there do a good job of that. I trust them with that. And so, Dofreak, good to see you, as well as WilkZack90, thanks for coming by. And let's see here. Let's Farm says, could you ask the mods to join their fellow mods in the Discord? We'd like to coordinate. Please do mods. I do encourage you to do that. Can you, if you're a moderator at this channel, can you jump in to the Discord? Assuming you know how to use it. But as we, you guys all know though, you're not a boomer like me. So please do jump in as Let's Farm had mentioned. Andrew Kroll, good to see you, as well as WilkZack90, glad you were here, as well as Hannah Anderson, let's see. And then, is there anybody new here? I'm actually curious. Numatitis, is that my pronouncing it right? Numastis, where is it? There it is. Numastis. Thank you for being with us. We're glad you're here. I hope you feel welcome. An actual socialist trash, my favorite name on YouTube. We're glad you're here. Andrew Kroll says, hi James, glad you made it Andrew. And Freddie Simonson, the debate is over and it was a dialogue, we'll say that. It was a friendly dialogue exploratory, but it was great. I mean, I do appreciate the guests big time. That was a fun time. Team Skeptic says, I would moderate for you, best moderator ever. Moderator, moderator, moderator. Thank you for that team. And Manic Pan is good to see you. He says, hey James. And Ozzie and thanks for your super chat says, Indiegogo up to 1,336 already, one more for Leet. Thank you so much to the person who just jumped in. That's super encouraging. It has gone up to 1,336. So now it's up to, it went from 35%. I think when I woke up this morning, I think it was at 35%. Now it's at 38%. So that's another 3%. We're actually, believe me, we're going to make it folks. It's going to be epic. And we are really excited about that. And so thank you so much. We are pumped about this. It's like seriously, it's going to be epic. And we've got some plans and like, we're excited about this. Got new ways of kind of spreading the word. And if you have not seen it folks, oh, did you not see the coffee cup is up? If you want a Moderated Bait coffee cup, we have added that as a perk. Cause some people were like in the chat last time, I said, hey, what would be some good ones? And people were like the coffee, the Moderated Bait coffee mug would be awesome. And I was like, let's try it. That'd be cool. Let's give it a shot. The old college try. Anderson, good to see you. He says, modern day, modern day bias. F, or what is it? JFL. I don't know what JFL means, but I know what modern day bias is. Oh man, I'm getting the heat. Oh, we're glad you're here. That's all right. Let's see. I also, let's see. Actual Socialist Trash said, Erica is my favorite mod. We, yes, Erica is YouTube's favorite daughter. We love Erica. We appreciate Erica. And I am talking to Erica on Twitter right now about a potential future debate. Actually a couple, several. So I am pumped for that. Is that, that is gonna be a fun one. And Platium says, no worries. Thanks for your flexibility in patience, Platium. And Mr. Peace says, James, are you still trapped in Kent's closet at DAL, Dinosaur Adventure Land? That's funny. I gotta give it to Kent. We appreciate Kent. Kent has always been fun. The last debate with Kent Hovind, what was that, last Saturday with Avi? That was a fun debate. People really, there's a lot of positive feedback on that which is encouraging, because I'm like, hey, if you enjoyed it, I'm glad to hear that. And then Philosopher Tiger says, I graduated college yesterday, now onto my BA in computer science at UN, UNI. I'm trying to think of, I should know this, UNI. They also say, good luck moderating. Thank you, Philosopher Tiger, for your good luck. Appreciate that. And I'm trying to think of UNI. What would that be? I know I should know this. University of Northern Iowa? Let me know, because I know there is a Northern Iowa and then there's an Upper Iowa University. But let me know. But yeah, we're pumped. Thank you, Philosopher Tiger, congrats to you on graduating college yesterday. That is epic. And then said, now onto my BA in computer science at UN. That is cool. Okay, so oh, you're getting graduated. So you're getting, is this your second BA, Philosopher Tiger? Let me know. But that's cool. Thanks for sharing that. And thank you for your good luck. I appreciate that. CEO of Saber, thanks for being with us. We're glad you're here. And then, let's see. Sigma N, good to see you. And says, disappointed to hear no discussion of international salary. I don't know, is it like a day, international salary day? I didn't even know about that. But that's interesting, to say the least. As well as actual social trash says, hi James, glad you made it. Thank you, appreciate that. And then, new Matt, sis. New Matt, sis says, maybe I must change my name and make it easier. That's funny. No, no, no, I'll get it. Be patient with me. I'm working on it. But JPG, thanks for coming by, says, when is Nick F coming on? I've actually emailed with Nick and it's a possibility in the future, but I can't guarantee it. I would have to figure out, I think it was Nick wanted one-on-one with Hunter Avalon. And it's, for a number of reasons, it's hard to set those up. But long story short, we are open to having Nick. We are willing to host pretty much anybody. And the only thing is, I would say, topic-wise, we're almost open to pretty much anything. The only thing that we're like, yeah, well, there's some topics, I don't know. I mean, if we did tonight's topic, like what else could we do that's worse? I don't know. What do you think is worse? But Nate said that this is on par. Intel is on par with race realism. That's how controversial he said it was. Which I'm like, is it really? I don't know. I mean, I guess, I know race realism is controversial. And, but yeah, we'll probably host that too, anyway. But ASDRT, thanks for coming by. We are glad you were here. And let's see, Imran Khan, good to see you. This is hi, glad you made it, Imran Khan. And so thank you, folks, for being with me. What are your thoughts? Do you have any thoughts? I am listening, folks. You have my undivided attention. Sometimes people send me emails, and I'm almost like, you know what? If you mention this in chat, well, okay, a couple things. If you happen to speak to me in the chat, folks, if there's anything you wanna say, anything you wanna say, I wanna improve this about the channel, whatever you got. Let me know. I'm open-eared. I'm open-eyed. I've got my eyes wide open staring at the screen, but also wanna let you know. Okay, I forgot what I was gonna say. Oh, my emails, I was gonna say. If you've sent an email and you haven't gotten a response from me in the last 24 hours, I need you to do me a favor. If you've ever sent an email to me and you were expecting a response and you still haven't gotten one, email me again. I'm so sorry to ask that. But my email, the emails come in so fast, it's really hard. And so, long story short, I tried to catch up with every email yesterday, first time in a long time. So it was like weeks worth. And if you had not heard from me yesterday, therefore, it means that your email got buried somewhere in the past and I'm really sorry about that, but do let me know. I'm wanting to get back to everybody. And wanna let you know though, a couple things is if you wanted to come on for a debate, it's, like I said, there are extenuating circumstances. We're like, oh, okay, yeah. Team Skeptic has helped us out a ton. And so if team never wanted to use this camera, I'd be like, dang man, everybody wants to see your handsome mug, but I'd still let him come on and debate. I'd be like, no worries. But I do wanna say, for newcomers especially, I gotta let you know, absolutely we gotta say, we wanna say, we wanna encourage you to have a camera. Nama, we made an exception because Nama basically, I made a mistake and Nama forgave me and so I was like, okay. I can't complain. If you don't wanna use a camera, it's okay. But long story short, Resolute of Gores says one of those coffee cups that change their design with temperature would be cool. That actually would be really cool. I think the price for those might be higher, but let me check. Cause they, it would be like super cool. I don't know of any, but cause I, so long story short with the merch, the tough thing is I have to pay Teespring to produce that stuff. And then I have to pay Teespring to ship it to somebody. So let's say like, for example, shipping and production for a T-shirt, I think is about 10 bucks. And so that's why a T-shirt is like 50 bucks as a perk because is that it's like, well, if we put it as 20, like there was only like $10 that comes into the crowdfund. And so I don't know. One of those color changing mugs, I think is like 30 bucks. And that's like three times more than a normal mug on Teespring. So I don't know. But Paradigm Shift Music says thanks. So I don't know. I'll get back to you on that Resolute of Gores. And then Paradigm Shift Music says thanks so much for another excellent discourse. Thank you for your kind words, Paradigm Shift Music. That seriously means a lot. And actual socialist trash says, would you host a debate on critical race theory? Heck, yeah, I would. I'd be totally open to that. I don't know who wants to debate it though. That's something, sometimes people, and this is okay to do it. I don't, it doesn't bother me, but I gotta let you know that sometimes, like in this case, some of these people suggest a topic and I'm like, that's a cool topic. I agree. But I don't know what, like who would actually want to debate it. Tom Jumbo would debate almost anything. But the stolen land says, have you ever been so far as to even pretend to even want to go to do more like? Huh? Have you ever been so far as to even pretend to even want to go to do more like? I don't know, more like what? Ms. Metal, good to see you. It says, hey there, modern day debate. Glad you made it, Ms. Metal. Thanks for saying hi too. General Balzac, good to see you as well. Anne Flames, Blades, 4567. Thanks for coming by. And it is no longer a debate. Now it's me in the post-credits scene. Post, Platinum says, I just want to clarify. In the past when I asked you if you could join in Discord, what you meant is more of a direct line of communication for management related things, but no pressure. Yeah, I mean like, I, let's see. I can try to figure out how to do that. It's still, it's a little ambiguous to me, but I am gonna try to figure out Discord this summer. But I do want you to know that, I didn't know that, to be completely, yeah. So team skeptic, good to see you. And then, let's see. JPG says, is there a Discord server? There is, it's linked at the top of the chat right now. And then it is also in the description as we have all of our social media in the description. And then Brooke Chavez says, you should have a modern day debate coffee cup with you during debates so you could show it off. That's a great idea actually. I love that idea, because I usually do have my black coffee cup. And I, so I love that. And then team skeptic says, moving forward, every debate I do on this channel I will have my camera on. It will be zoomed in on my nostrils, just saying, watch what you wish for. That's funny. You don't have to. I only, I hate putting you on the spot and naming you while I say that there's that rule. It's not really that strict a rule, but let's see, Brooke Chavez says, oh, okay, gotcha. And then Gigi Blanco, good to see you. We are glad you were here. And DeBosk, glad you made it. Thanks for being with us. And then I know the picture of Nama, doesn't she look like a young version of Uma Thurman? Like to the point where I like, when I first saw the picture I was like, that's Uma Thurman. That's not you Nama, but that is actually Nama. So let's see, Gigi Blanco, is my printing it? Gigi Blanco, I got it right the first time. Glad you're here. And then something from nothing, good to see you. And then Perfect One says, there may be people who will speak in favor of race realism, but there are few who will show their face while they do. Yeah, I mean, that's the trick, folks. I mean, but Resort, of course, is how about some sexy, modern day debate pins? The ones you can turn upside down and make an image of you removing clothes. Nasty guy. That is definitely not gonna happen unless it's a picture of T-Jump. But Vaughn McHugh, just kidding. Let's see. Vaughn McHugh, we're glad you were here. Thanks for coming by. And any last thoughts though, folks. Thanks for hanging out here. You guys make it fun. I do appreciate you guys more than you know. Actually, Socialist Trash said, just we sent my email. There was a typo in it though. It says I'm a librarian, Socialist. I don't work in a library. I was supposed to read Libertarian. Oh, okay, gotcha. Yeah, that sounds fun. I'm open to it. We are looking for like, nude topics. And so, a lot of people, thanks Team Skeptic for your patience. You're not putting me on the spot. You rock. Thanks for your kind words, Team, seriously. And let's see. Yeah, we do appreciate Team, folks. Give Team some love. He's been a long time supporter. And just coming on the channel. Cause that, it's true, folks. Like, there's no hiding it. And there's no way we can not say it. The debaters are the lifeblood of the channel, folks. They make it fun. And so, imagine if it was me debating myself every night. It'd be terrible. Human Girl says, hey, Purple Heart. Thank you, Human Girl. How are you? We hope you're well. And so, we are pumped, though, you guys. The future is bright and we are excited for it. And yeah, I'm dead serious. We had mentioned it last time. You remember back in January, we were like, hey, we want to do this Kickstarter or Crowdfund. Cause we used Kickstarter last time. Now we switched to Indiegogo. That's why all the coloring for it is like pink, purple. What's the mix of pink, purple? What's the in-between color that Indiegogo uses? I don't know, but it's a nice color. And we switched over there because they've got more flexibility. But I want to show you and ask you. Poopman's AKA Nate says, don't ask to email again. That makes it so much worse. Don't ask to email again. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember if I asked you to email, but don't ask to email again. Oh, no, no, no. What I'm saying is if they had never gotten a response from me, if they can email again, because it's buried in my, like my inbox. And my inbox is like, honestly, you guys, I know it sounds probably, maybe it sounds a little bit, like maybe it sounds smug or something kind of like, oh, James, like you think you're that cool that they have to email you multiple times? Is it's like, well, I don't think I'm cool. It's more that I just have a lot of emails in my inbox. And I mean, there are a lot of people that want to debate. And I'm like, thankful for that. But the idea is it's really hard for me to keep up with the emails. And there are some that I sometimes find where I search for a person's name. And then I'm like, oh, and I missed an email from them like six months ago. Like for me to search back six months, I just don't have the bandwidth. And so if somebody really wants to get in touch, they can feel free to email. And I won't be annoyed. Like I've never annoyed if they're like, hey, James, I hadn't heard back from you the first time because it is my goal to actually respond to everybody. And so if they send a second one, they're like, hey, just a friendly reminder just so that this is at the top of your inbox. I do that to people too. Like demon mama, I just emailed demon mama and I hadn't heard a response. And I was like, oh, it's been a couple of days. And I was a little, I'm a little impatient about emails. So I emailed demon mama. I just said, hey, just a friendly like little ping to make sure this is at the top of your inbox. But you know, like no rush, you've got a week. And demon mama responded and was happy in a good mood, like not offended that I emailed a second time. And so I think it's just like, it's just, you know, being assertive, like asserting yourself to make sure you're, you know, that it doesn't fall between the cracks. It's just human. Sometimes you'd miss it. But Brooke Chavez says, how long is the one-on-one Zoom chat with you? It's 60 minutes. And I am pumped for that because surprisingly, I am surprised that like, I think there were like four people signed up for that perk last time. Like no joke, I'm not, I'm like, cause I was surprised. I was like, eh, like, so I was like super surprised. It's like, like, cause I didn't really think anybody would, but I'm encouraged that some people have like, found that useful cause one person last time, they're like, hey, could I record it and then put it on my own channel? And that way I get its content that I'll, you know, like be able to put on my own channel. Plus, you know, it's hopefully an enjoyable conversation for the person. And so it was like, yeah, but you don't have to do it in terms of putting it on your own channel. Like I said, it could be, I mean, like I'm pretty open to talking about virtually anything. So don't get weird resawad of gore. I know what sort of weird things you're thinking of, but I'm not going to talk about that. And then Brooks Havas or Platinum says, question from the Moz James, how should we react to insults toward groups of people? Like for example, insult or stupid, insult is both an idea and group kind of. Yeah, I agree. I would rather not be about the groups, but here's where it gets crazy. I know that a lot of times, cause we've always, so a lot of mods you probably, like I don't know, what are your thoughts mods? That's what I lean toward in terms of, cause if you think about it, you insult a group, you insult everybody that's part of the group, right? And so we always say like attack the person or the arguments, not the person. Now be aware that we're going to have to delete a ton of comments cause I'm not, see, I'm not taking sides, but I will say that there is one group that people regularly will say, well actually there's several groups where people will, not all, but maybe like 5% of people will say, oh, that group, those people are so stupid. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I honestly, it's a really tough one because that a higher percentage of people will say, ask, yeah, let me know what the mods think. I've got to think about it. I would love your feedback if you could let me know what you guys think. I lean toward maybe like just saying, giving them a warning, I definitely don't want to block them without warning. I do want to say like, let's at least give them warning to say, hey, you know, we're not, we do want to help people to address or direct their critiques at the ideas, not at people or people, you know, or you could just say not at people instead of not the person. So, cause it is true. It's like, we don't want this to be too rough and tumble cause here's the thing. I know that I've always had a, I've always encouraged everybody to have a stoic philosophy to just be like, hey, you can say whatever you want about me. Like, I don't care. Like, there are some dandies in terms of like, some of the things that people said about me. And I'm like, I just, I just don't read the comments. Like, I just like, no. But I also, I try to not erase them. Like, maybe like James is just so dumb or like, and I'm like, okay. And I try to have a stoic philosophy of just as CosmicScaptic once said, like I've had a lot worse things said about me by people who I respected a lot more than the stranger on the internet. But at the same time, not everybody has that stoic philosophy and it's something that is really hard for them to develop. And it's still hard for me. Like, sometimes I do take criticism personally. I work on not doing that, but you know, I'm human and sometimes it's not easy. So long story short, let's maybe just say, hey folks, you know, I want to remind you, actual socialist trash says also, not sure, but it may come up because Bob's gyroscope, old name for the account and I can't remember if I changed it before I sent the first email. Oh, okay. I think I've seen that one. I don't know if it's, I don't know if I've seen the email. I've seen it in the chat though. So let me know if I missed it. But yes. Wow. Platinum says, we've been discussing it for about two hours now or so. I think we should definitely ping them though. And I think in the spirit of like, hey, you know, we don't want people just putting down, because it is true. They're, I mean, like, there are probably certain people that don't come to this channel as often because they maybe get picked on more. Cause maybe people say, I mean, I'll just say it. I think two groups that regularly get, you guys, if you doubt me at all, you can look at the modern day debate, like go to some of our past debates and you'll see it about groups either way where sometimes they'll say, oh, atheists are so dishonest. Although I would say, I think for whatever reason, I'm not saying that anybody's worse. It might just be that there are like, way more atheists here. And so even though a small percentage of the atheists or globe earthers are the types who would say that an entire group is stupid, they like, I would say flat earthers. A lot of times I'll see comments that people are like, man, flat earthers are so dumb. And it's like, okay. Like that would be an example of it's like, I would rather ping them and say, hey, we don't really want you to just like throw down people like that. And then there's, oh, Christians are so dumb or Christians are so dishonest. And it's like, we don't really want you to throw down an entire people group like that. Cause think about it this way. It's funny that when it comes to those things or even a protected class, cause religion is a protected class or lack thereof. So whether you lack religion or have religion, that's supposed to be a protected class. So it's a pretty like, pretty important thing. According to like the 1964 Civil Rights Act as well as previous acts. And so the idea here is, if someone were to say, oh man, like let's say they said something like clearly, like clearly terrible. Like they said, oh, people of this race are so dumb. We'd be like, okay, that's extremely bigoted. But at the same time, people will sometimes say, oh, Christians are all religious people are so dumb or religious debaters are so dishonest. And I'm like, that's pretty, that's bigoted. And some people will be like, no, it's not. And I'm like, it is, it just is like, it doesn't, and it just the same way it would be bigoted if someone said atheists are so dishonest or atheists are so dumb. It's like, we don't, that's not useful. Like, why are you saying that? It's like, there's no good reason to say that whether they be religious, non-religious. And so, let's see. I see Platium saying, well, I'm not saying like if it's really bad, but just an insult. So like, Platium says, what about insults should date in their league? It's kind of a backhanded insult. It is, it definitely is. I know what you mean by that. I would say, gosh, I don't know, what are other channels like? They've got to go, they do have gone through this before. Cause I gotta be honest, I don't know. I, to be honest, I don't, I don't, I'm thinking, oh, let's put it in the context of like, if we put it in the terms of race, people of this race should date in their league. Okay, it's like, it sounds pretty bad. Like that, yeah, that sounds terrible. In fact, that sounds like something an insult would maybe say, cause there is some race related stuff in the incel community. Among, I should say, maybe pockets of incel people will say stuff like that. But, let's see. So, long story short, if you use the race test, it seems clearly like, yeah, that's not good. But, is the race test appropriate? Because being incel and being a flat earther, aren't protected groups. And I'm like, should we use protected groups as our criteria? I don't know. I mean, these are really hard questions. I think that, I still, even in that case, I don't know. It's really, really hard. What do you guys think? What are other channels like? I honestly don't know a ton about what that's like. Let me know. Do you guys go to other channels? Like, are you allowed to say that? I don't know. Jamie Russell says it's a hard one. One thing you might say is religious affiliation or lack thereof is a choice, not a born attribute. I am not sure. No, I mean, even more about like, the backhanded insult about like, incels dating in their own league. Like, Brian Griffin, what up? Good to see you. He says, what's up everyone? Glad you made it, Brian. Hannah Anderson says, there is, incels are a specific race. I didn't mean they were a race. But I do, I was saying that like, sometimes incels, there's a rule that some incels say, which is abbreviated with the letters JBW. And I'm not gonna say it because it's like, well, I mean, it's not per se racist, but it's controversial and it has to do with race. They think, I don't even wanna explain it, but it's something that anyway, long story short. Andrew Cross says, James, how about, there's always someone for anyone. That seems fine, obviously. Let's see. And then Captain Eve, Captain V, good to see you, glad you made it. Defreak says, you have to let the trolling play out. I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's true. They say, Defreak says, no, Twitch is the worst. Platinum says, and further clarify, we need you for these kind of questions. And they said, the other night, the mods spent about five to six hours discussing other stuff. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm obviously available. You can email me and stuff. I don't know why you insist that it has to be on, there are a billion other ways to communicate, including Zoom or whatever else, but you're like, it has to be Discord. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know if it does, just in virtue of you saying it. Maybe you're not, sorry if I've, maybe if I've been a little uncharitable, they're applied to you, and maybe that's not what you're saying. So I retract that. But so if it, you know, but let me know. Saito Nav says, call me old fashioned, but I find it easy, attack ideas, not people, people includes both individuals and groups. Yeah, I get that, I lean toward that. The stolen land says, are people from a certain culture who only date and marry within that culture considered racist? Would that be a good topic? If you could boil it down into like six words at most, it might be a good topic, but I don't know who will only date within that culture. I think it's a, it's an okay topic. I gotta be honest, it's a little bit specific. So I don't know if it'd work, but maybe. Jamie Russell says, you seem on the right track, but I am why you see so LOL. I don't know. We'll figure it out. Platium says it can be Zoom. Thanks for your flexibility, Platium. I appreciate it. We might have to do that. Although a lot of it, it's okay to email too. I was looking for your email today, Platium, and like, I couldn't find any recent ones. I was also looking for MathPig, and I couldn't find any recent ones. I could have sworn MathPig was, I thought, used, said that they were gonna send me an email, but I didn't see it, but I might be wrong about that. So I'm not trying to throw MathPig under the bus. I think it was maybe just a misunderstanding on my part. Thanks for your super chat. Captain V says, G, good job, James, you do great work. Thank you, Captain V. Seriously, that really does mean a lot. It is encouraging given just how a team and I were talking the other night is that it's like, there are a lot of, I mean, most people are positive, and I appreciate it so much. And Captain V, your super chat, seriously is encouraging. But it means more than you know. Long story short, that's what I will say is, it means more than you know, so thank you. And then Mr. Peace says, I don't think we should promote a culture of hypersensitivity, James, that itself is toxic. Yeah, I can get that. Platinum says, I use Discord and Skype, good to know. And Resort of course says, there's a fine line between roasting and insulting, maybe a roast debate and now and then would be cool. Yeah, I do feel like roasting. I kind of feel like, you know, like Tom and I tease each other once in a while, right? You know, and it's like, I do think it's like, let's look at kind of like what's their intent, you know? Like if they say, man, these people are so stupid. It's like, that's kind of mean, right? But if it's like something that I just don't know, I don't want people to feel like they're walking on eggshells, that's the opposite. So we might have to keep going, but MindBend 256 says, critical race theory, hey, we're totally open to hosting critical race theory. Let me know if you want to, like I'm open to it. And Hacks says, a clear set of rules, all the mods work from is key. I do agree with that, like I think there will, I do agree and that's something I wanna do. So I do appreciate that. And it is something that I think is necessary too. And maybe even necessary within like the next week. It's like it's priority. So Jamie Russell, thanks for your super chat says, throw the bigots in the Twitch quarantine for free speech. That's funny. The Twitch I feel like is usually more relaxed and behaved. More Lina, thank you for subscribing on the modern day to eight Twitch. We do appreciate that. So thank you so much. Sorry, Twitch gang, I'm like slow. I am like catching up. And I'm almost there. But yeah, thank you so much. Do appreciate that subscription. And yeah, folks, if you happen to be watching via Twitch, we are so glad that it's useful. Cause I'm still learning Twitch to a small degree, but I'm pumped that people are like, hey, this is fun over here. And I, is it, Jake, JC80 says, fight the flat earth is super sensitive to flat earthers. Like super sensitive, like gentle with them or the opposite. Let's see. Two seconds. One, three, three, six. We are pumped. The meter is updated on screen. So it does have the updated amount that we are at in terms of the fundraiser. And so thank you so much, folks. We do appreciate that as I am pumped. It is now up to 38% as you can see on screen. Believe me, folks, we are going to make it. There's no doubt in my mind. It is, I'm honestly pumped about this. Seriously, I'm just encouraged. I'm excited that it's just been growing and it's been awesome. And so thank you guys for your support. And then Jamie, let's see. And then JC80, oh, let's see. Andrew Kroll says, James, introspection roast, roast yourself, maybe. And let's see. Platinum says, we have a written temporary code of conduct for moderators and Discord at the moment. I can share that when we have a moment to communicate. Thank you for that, Platinum. Feel free to email it to me, too. And Datopanda, I'm just kind of tired from all my semester, all the Zoom calls, you guys. Because remember, I love Modern Day Debate, and it's a passion project that I honestly plan on doing the rest of my life. No joke. I really believe in 10 years, Modern Day Debate, could potentially be Joe Rogan podcast level popular. I'm excited about it. At the same time, a challenge for me is that, sorry, I'm going to be dehydrated. The Zoom chat, working on my PhD, I have a ton of Zoom meetings with students and with my professors. And so it's like, so email sometimes is even quicker and more efficient. But Datopanda says, potential debate, moderated chat versus unmoderated chat, that's funny. Maybe Brian Griffin says, all the passionate people use YouTube, that's funny. And JC80 says, that was sarcasm, LOL, good to know. And 3-7-3-5-6-2-4-3-8 says, hi. Hi, back. We hope you are well. 3-7-5-6-2-4-3-8, welcome. And we hope you are having a great day. And we're glad you're here. And Team Skeptic says, I don't think he means gentle with them, LOL. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. They didn't mean gentle with them. JPG says, nuanced debate is the best debate. Can't even debate anymore without being reduced to labels. And that is why we love your work so much. It's so different. God bless you, sir. Thanks, JPG, for your support. Seriously, that means more than you know. I really do appreciate it. That's really cool of you. And what is leet? I don't understand what that means, you guys. Because it's, oh, I see what you're saying. 1-3-3-7, is that it? What does leet mean? I'm going to put it in a Google. I hope this isn't something dirty. A yearly or half yearly of record that the lords of certain manners held. Like, is it like yeet? I don't know. Shannon Q taught me that. We hope she's doing well. It's been a while since I've gotten to talk to Shannon. And then Mr. P, by the way, the podcast, the modern day debate podcast, tomorrow morning, you will get, if you enjoy Shannon, which I definitely enjoy Shannon, we hope Shannon's doing well. We've always enjoyed Shannon's visits to modern day debate, is tomorrow, the modern day debate podcast will, you guys, it will have Shannon Q in a super old school debate. We're doing a throwback Thursday. So this is a throwback Thursday debate. Tomorrow morning, it's going to be released on the modern day debate podcast. And I would say, folks, if you haven't yet, pull out your podcast app on your phone. So like right now, folks, I'll do it with you. See this? The future is here, all with the touch of your finger. You can click podcast app, which for me is podcast addict, maybe the best podcast. You can find us on your favorite podcast. You can see modern day debate there. I think it's in the top middle. Do you see it there? Yep, there it is, modern day debate, top middle. One of my favorite podcasts, a lot of times when my attention is split during the debate, I will actually, like I can download it and listen to the debate afterward. And then I don't have to use any data. I just gotta download it on wifi and then I can listen to the debate. And we, on modern day debate, are available on podcasts. And so we do wanna encourage you, especially if you enjoy Shannon, as the debate tomorrow that we're releasing tomorrow morning will be Shannon and C4C Apologetics. It's an old school discussion on the consequences of religion on the world. And so that is an interesting discussion. You guys, you don't wanna miss that. That's cool. Like I said, pull out your phone right now and pull out your favorite podcast app. And if you, maybe you're like, James, oh gosh, I've heard this a million times. Oh, nah, I dropped it. If you haven't already rated the app, please do. Because that actually helps us. We really do appreciate it. If you can give us a podcast rating, whether it be on Apple podcasts or Spotify podcasts, Google podcasts, you can see all the podcasts. And this is just some of them. All the podcasts on the far, far right of your screen, folks, all the way over there, you can see all of our podcasts. And that's just some of them. We're on so many podcasts. We're on Amazon music, as you see on the screen on the far right over there. We're also on Audible. We're also on Pandora. We're also on iTunes, Applecasts, Apple podcasts, that's embarrassing. Google podcasts, Pocketcasts, Dogcatcher. We're on like pretty much every podcast app that exists. Like no joke, we're overcast. We're on like pretty much everyone. And so folks, we hope that's useful for you. Platinum says, I totally get that, James. I promise I won't bother you too much. It's just to make sure me and Let's Fam steer the rest. We steer the rest right. I appreciate your understanding. And Platinum says, that way we can take the pressure off you better. I appreciate that. And Paradigm Shift Music says, I just joined the Discord. Nice setup. All credit to Larry and Platinum and Math Pig and others. And Captain V says, do you ever think you will debate in a show what would be the topic? I used to debate, and you can see some of my old debates, including an old in-person debate that I had with August Berkshire. It's in the debate library here on modern day debate. And Hacks says it's old school gamer slang, a shortening of elite. Oh, that's cool. That's so funny. Team Skeptics says you're not a nerd. I'm not a gamer, I guess. I do play old vintage N64 games often, like Shadows of the Empire, Star Wars. So I'm up there. And Paradigm Shift Music says, it's a nerd way of saying elite. That's funny, I like that. Elite, I like that. And you guys are funny. Poopman says it's a form of text from early 200s to elite where you use numbers for some letters. Thanks, Nate. And Team Skeptics says that phone is pretty elite. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. JC80 says it used to be as innocent as you that I found wild turkey. I think that's an adult beverage, right? And Captain V says, do you ever think you will debate? It's so what type? Oh yeah, I used to debate on religion. I do enjoy religion. I think I would do the is Christianity dangerous? That's a fun one. And I actually, I think that contemporary, so contemporary forms of Pascal wager would be fun to debate. Contemporary means like not Pascal's old wager. I don't think that argument works. I do think there are contemporary versions of it though that are super fun and interesting to talk about. You can see there's a debate with me on the non sequitur show from like a hundred years ago. I should edit it so that it was like me moderating my own debate. That would be epic. But anyway, I just thought I got the footage of it. So anyway, paradigm shift music says, also a form of communication in and of itself. Leet, thank you for letting me know that. I'm trying to, oh, I might debate whether or not college is useful. My answer would be it depends. I don't like, and it's become somewhat politicized. I don't like that often times people are like, is college good? Yes. Is college good? No. It's like, that's not a very good answer. It's like, the answer is it depends. If you want to be a medical doctor, if you want to be a lawyer, I don't know if there's any other way other than going to a four year school and then professional school. So if your heart's set on that, the answer is yes. If you don't care about that and you just want to make a living, you're just like, I don't have any particular job. I just want a job that I, maybe I can enjoy relatively well or maybe even a lot. Maybe you're, you know, you enjoy a lot of things. You're like, I just want to enjoy that a job I enjoy pretty much or, you know, well enough and I make enough money to get by comfortably. Then I would say, no, you don't need to go to school. I think that at the same time, not everybody's goals are like that too. The trick is some people are like, I want to go to school because I really feel like getting to read and be exposed to all these new ideas is really good for me. And I'm like, well, if you think that it gives it, if you think it's worth it in terms of like the amount that you pay compared to what you could do outside of school, then, you know, it depends on what it is worth to you. Like maybe it is for some people, they would value that way more than the amount of cash that it takes to get. And so like, no, maybe. I mean, the simple truth is, yeah, so long story short, the answer is I think it depends. For a lot of people though, I obviously would grant like, they'd be a lot happier without school and they'd financially be a lot better. But I am a little disturbed at the fact that oftentimes people only boil it down to school having one potential purpose. And I'm like, but that's not how the real world works. I don't know if that's true. Like for a lot of people, I don't think they're just going to school. I think it's true, a lot of them are. But I think for a lot of them, they're not just going to school just for the purpose of like a career or something like that. So I'd have to get you some empirical data to like support that. But in my conversations with people, that's what, I'm not convinced that's the only reason they go. But anyway, GC80 says, don't say in 64s of inches. I'm still young, okay? That's funny. Actual Socialist Trashes, your old debates are good ones. I really enjoyed them. I'm so glad you liked that. Thank you, Actual Socialist Trash, for saying that. And they said, especially the ones that T-Jump demolished you in, LOL. That's funny, because I remember the one point I caught T-Jump with his pants down. But I would concede. There's one point that I remember that T-Jump caught me with my pants down. And I was like, I just didn't have an answer. And I was willing to own it. I was like, yeah, I gotta go back and study that one. But CEO Saber says, do another one on missing 411. We might, that's a fun topic. Paradigm Shift Music says, I don't think it's cut and dry either, but I think it's a great discussion to have, AKA the college one. Yeah, I think it's a fun one and it's relevant. And then Captain V says, I'm out, keep doing your thing. Everyone stop trolling the person, troll the argument. Agreed, that's funny. I like the way you put it. Team Skeptics says, I think advanced schooling is a good way to understand generalized topic more definitively, like biology high school to microbiology university. Yeah, I think, you know, there's like agreed. You know, it depends on a billion things, but that's why I'd say the answer is like, I just, I'm not always excited. It's almost like they have like, people are like excited. They want to say definitively like, yes, school is what you should do. And some people definitively want to say like, school, no, it's just a waste of time and money. And I'm like, I think it depends on a lot of factors. So yeah, I agree. I agree teams. Thank Brooke. Thank you, Brooke, for your support. So if you haven't, please hit that like. I agree. Please do support the stream. We appreciate that. Thanks everybody. And then Manic Panist says, I agree with the problem with it depends is it isn't a very satisfying answer. Can it damage if you do and damage if you don't? Yeah, that's true. It's a lot of, I mean, it's at the answer to almost everything is. And it's not a very like helpful answer. I would concede like, yeah, let me think about this. Cause maybe it's like, well, what would you say? Like, is there, would you say that there's a certain percentage? Like, would you be able to tell me what you think most people should do, even if most means 51%? Then I'm like, yeah, you know, let me think about this. I think it's about 30% go to college already. I think it may be the case that most shouldn't because I don't know if I have enough energy to get into it now, but let's see. I guess that assumes that most people only want to find a job that they enjoy relatively well and they get enough income to survive comfortably. And I don't know if that's a fair assumption. I might not be right about that. So I don't know, I'd have to read more about it before I could really say a slightly more definitive answer. Hannah Anderson says, I didn't know that. There was a mod, an old mod that went rogue. But anyway, let's see. Thank you guys. Oh, that's funny. I see somebody who, Spicey Rhodes, I love you, they're saying 200K to get well-read. I don't know who's telling you you have to pay $200,000 to get a college education, but that's where I'm like, who are you listening to? Now, some people spend that much, but I think you can pretty easily do it with significantly less debt than 200K. So I'm like, yeah, it makes me interpret you as maybe being one of the people that says like, no, college is almost always silly. I could be wrong. Let me know if I'm wrong. Actual Socialist Trust says, school recommodified 100% it will be worth it. That's interesting and juicy. I appreciate you saying that. And so thank you everybody for being here. We're excited for this upcoming debate. You don't wanna miss it. It is going to be juicy. Demon Mama and Tom Jump are debating Monday on whether or not evil ideas ought to be de-platformed or debated. And oh, it's gonna be a juicy one. You don't wanna miss that, folks. This is gonna be fun. I'm excited about it. So hit that subscribe button and that notification bell so you don't miss it. And we hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from. Thanks everybody for all your love and support. I appreciate you. Thanks for making this channel a blast. I hope you guys have a great rest of your night and I'm excited to see you on Friday.