 He hears it back. He hears it back. He hears it back. He hears it back. He hears it back. He will. We're relieved. He said that first he expressed a considerable understanding and appreciation for the unfair pressures on you from many sources in terms of doing things that you felt you were not ready to do. And he said that Kennedy felt this same kind of pressure that only the president could be the judge of when was the best time in his scheme of things to decide. And he said secondly that he had not seen any difficulty in decision making on your part recently that he found you completely receptive to advice that he considered important and not strained in any way. Thirdly he knew that he had I think used the word actually gone against the president's instructions or wishes on these speeches. But he reiterated to me what he said was my honest understanding of the president's desire to state it three or four months ago to make some speeches in the right way. And that he was also felt that it was good to take some of the pressure and some of the criticism from the liberal community, academic community away from the president and attach it to him and Dean Rusk and others. And the only upshot of it was as best I could tell, Bundy was trying to say to me look if the president has any idea that anything's wrong with me. I hope you will not entertain them very long because there's not. He's saying I'm very happy at my job. He did not think the White House and the president were being well served by the department of state. He didn't mention any names but he just said that the system over there is what he has repeated won't you hear anywhere about the state department. It was a very pleasant but candid hour's lunch which I thought he was trying to be open and direct. Well, you see they would naturally talk to Bundy and to Larry and to Dave and to Lee White. That's where they would start. Then they take on the independent fringe people I think they'd consider like Cater, maybe Harry. They're kind of leveling on the fringe and not knowing who's tied too closely. And then move in. I would imagine though that this started with Bundy because he's had to be set out on time or two. I don't know were you in there the other day and I'm sure you weren't. He insisted on bringing up the Javits resolution. Think about that. Well, I said we've got to decide. We just had to finally just do really clear. He said put that aside. I told you two or three times quit that. Let's go on to the agenda. That was not it but it was real. It was rather rough. Well, I've got to go see the key thing. What you've got to do is two things now with your press. Go out there and relieve your tensions after talking to me and let them talk to you some so you can see it. And I think if I were you I would take the line that we have had a good many differences within the administration about back and forth that I have to resolve on everything from the formation of the poverty campaign where to put the responsibility to what we're going to do on the farm bill to what we do on education, to what we do on medical care by taking extra money by going so far as we've gone in education and that those things have been argued out. Sometimes you thought we're going too fast, too far. Sometimes I thought we're not going far enough for the best person and that we have had to debate them and get consensus. And we've done it on our monetary policy and we've done it on all of these things that we get different viewpoints from time to time on Mansfield and Dirksen and Albright all of them on farm policy and we consider everyone conscientiously. And then decided that we haven't gone as far as Jerry Ford didn't think well to the bombing. We've gone farther than Mansfield thinks we're up to. We've tried to honestly do what we think is right. And I think I'd bring Cidey in to see us. He's an awfully strong Kennedy man and he's actuated by Bobby and you can see the crowd that's doing this. Bobby's going to Latin America now. He's got Gil Patrick to work in farm and you saw the Gil Patrick story in time this morning. New York Times, that's not accidental. Well I think this lot can be done with just more candidness. I think that's our basic problem as I mentioned to you before. Our image is to resolve primarily to their interpretation of our being overly secretive. I just think more candid, sincere discussion. And I just think that you ought to say that on Jack's speech that you know that it's amusing to some of them that a man should have this affection for another man but that you believe that if they will look at anyone who has been with me 25 years whether it begins with Juanita or whether it begins with John Conway or whether it begins with Walter Jenkins or whether it begins with Bill White or whether it begins with Gould Lincoln who wrote the first story here about me that you'll find that all of them have this feeling and that you have it and that you, as far as this business of saying somebody's a messenger boy you just never have heard that and that you have always given your honest opinion and that many times you've been vetoed but you expected a careful analysis that at 30 years old you have made more big decisions that have been approved by the president than would have been approved if you'd been working for AT&T and that is true. I don't think it's any question I think that the whole legislative program 95% have made that approved and I would imagine AT&T as president and stockholders would have held you back on a good many things that's suggested and one of them you said, oh yes, and another one said Howard University's speech and a good many things of this type now there's beautification the way we went for it and I think that I would say that Tom, I just say now I know that I'm not supposed to be a sergeant but here's a sergeant, much stronger than Jack did he said that Kennedy was Christ compared to the Christ but the feeling was that they had a better feeling for Kennedy than they've never liked Jack because they feel Jack is a personal servant of mine and he is wonderful for me he is not irritating to me, he's pleasant he's soft I think you're good for me, I think Buzz is good for me I think Harry is awfully good for me I don't have men that clash with me Marvin and Marvin just says every day, Mr President I don't think I'm going to do this every day in a nice kind way very true of Marvin and they don't know that and they've got to see that and I just say the most obstinate man in government is Boris Buzzby you can't move him an inch but he's not a fellow that Shouts gets in a big fight and he writes his memo and the boss calls him up and says you're right I'll do a little of that, I'll see you're following Bill, a point of Bill